By The incident with the taxi driver in Uijongbu this past weekend has been a topic of interest for soldiers up here. The topic was brought up during scheduled New Horizon’s Day training that was held today in 2ID. New Horizon’s Day is held twice a year and focuses on educating soldiers about Korean customs & history, alcohol related incidents, sexual assaults, and sexual harassments. Ironically this date for the training fell at a good time discuss the consequences of soldiers getting in trouble here in Korea because of recent events. This training usually brings up some good discussions and today was no different.
Unlike the Korean media I am going to warn you before hand that this is second hand information from the rumor mill brought up during the discussion, so take it for what it is. Concerning this weekend’s incident apparently what happened was that a Private First Class waved down a taxi after exiting a club in downtown Uijongbu. Upon waving down the taxi the soldier ran and jumped onto and then quickly off the hood of the taxi basically because he was drunk and being an idiot. He didn’t dance around and “run amok” on top of the taxi as some would have you believe.
Never the less this idiot dented the hood of the taxi and the cab driver was pissed and began yelling at him and grabbing him demanding he pay for the damages. The soldier never punched the cab driver by was trying push him off of him and the physical contact was begun by the cab driver though granted the soldier provoked it by denting the hood.
Two other privates with the PFC then went and grabbed the cab driver to pull him off of the PFC. They pulled the cab driver off the PFC and the PFC ran off leaving his other two buddies. Some buddy, leaving his friends to deal with the aftermath of the mess he created. While the PFC ran off two other Korean nationals jumped in and confronted the other two soldiers, more pushing and shoving happened but the Koreans were able to detain the two soldiers, where they were eventually picked up by the Korean police. The PFC was later picked up by the MPs and brought to the KNPs for questioning. That is where it is at right now. The questioning is being done and no charges have been filed yet.
Obviously, the PFC should be the one in a lot of trouble for provoking the incident by jumping on the cab. If true that he did not punch out anyone which I think may be true since we have seen no pictures yet of anyone that was beat up. If you remember the prior incident with the beer bottle, pictures of the injured Korean national were on the net within hours. No pictures of anyone injured in this altercation which leads me to believe that no serious fight happened. Probably a lot of grabbing, pushing, and shoving after the idiot jumped on the taxi hood but no serious physical injury.
Assuming that this story is true, like I said before, who knows, the PFC should pay for the damages to the hood of the Korean taxi and offer a big apology to the cab driver, plus he will receive his military punishment which could entail loss of rank, money, restriction, and extra duty. I don’t see how he would go to jail over this though if no serious physical harm was committed, unlike the beer bottle incident where the soldier involved in that incident is in much more serious trouble because he used a weapon, the beer bottle, and caused serious harm to the Korean national. It doesn’t matter who started the fight, if the soldier used a weapon like he did. He caused serious scarring on the man’s face that he will have to carry around for the rest of his life. So that soldier is more than likely going to jail and paying a big fine on top of it plus the military punishment he will receive, which could include a bad conduct discharge.
I can assure you that soldiers do not get over when it comes to serious crimes like this like the Korean media wants you to believe. They will be punished accordingly. As I have stated in my previous posting I think that the Army can do more to create a better environment that can help prevent these things from happening because I hate seeing soldiers go to jail over these things that could of been prevented.
10:18 am on January 7th, 2007 1
So what happened with the Iraqi prison abuse case? Any meaningful punishment for those involved yet? Don't hold your breath.
10:21 am on January 7th, 2007 2
I thought it would turn out to be something like that.
I'm sure incidents like this happen to US cabbies all the time and they don't turn into international incidents. The guy shouldn't (and hopefully won't) receive much punishment for the cab denting; indeed, he ought to be punished more severely for leaving the scene, if that meets the elements of proof for an offense under the UCMJ.
If he had just stuck around, apologized, and offered to pay for the damage he probably wouldn't have been punished (in the legal sense of the word) at all.
"Hand", several of the individuals involved in the Abu Ghraib prison scandal have plead guilty and been sentenced already to terms in US military prison. The young woman (Lynnie England?) was set to plead guilty but her plea bargain fell through and the military judge threw out the whole proceeding. Her military trial is currently going through the long process of being re-started.
The details have been in the US news. I suggest you do an internet search for the details if you are really interested, though I suspect you're just here to do a "drive-by" taunt.
10:22 am on January 7th, 2007 3
Paul, I've read the news and I know what's going on. Lyndi England's greatest crime was that she got caught in the picture. Too bad for her but she's the scapegoat. But the real rotten ones who did the same and who exceeded England's actions, are free. Notice England's classic defense: "we were following orders".
10:24 am on January 7th, 2007 4
The following report surfaced the other day. Any info from 2ID land on the validity? If this is true, drunk GIs are the least of USFKs problems.
5W Report on an Off-Post Incident Involving Korean Nationals
Who: 2 ID PMO and a KN Motel Owner
What: Off-post altercation
Where: Adonis Motel, Dongduchun Entertainment District
When: 170050(I) Jun 05
Why: Unknown
Remarks: At 181440(I) Jun 05, the 2ID PMO reported that an off post incident had occurred near the Adonis Motel in the Dongduchun Entertainment District. 2ID PMO investigators were conducting surveillance near the Adonis Motel in relation to human trafficking, off limits establishments, and curfew violations. The motel owner approached and assaulted one of the investigators. The responding MPs were unable to restrain the owner, who made attempts to retrieve one of the MP's sidearm. A SPC MP grabbed and drew his weapon ordering the owner back. A crowd of approximately 100 KN's gathered at the site. Another investigator was chased into the Club 4U and locked inside by the owners. A third investigator and a PFC MP witnessed the attack and were also charged by the owner with a brick subsequently drawing their weapons as well. A CPL MP drew his PR-24 (police baton) as a show of force. A Korean Friendship Patrol member was present interfering with the MPs' and also instigating the situation. The situation was brought under control once the KNP supervisor arrived on scene. No ammunition was chambered. The use of force is currently under investigation by the PMO and the SJA offices.
10:24 am on January 7th, 2007 5
I heard about this incident, the motel owner was pissed because the crack down on prostitution has hurt their business. CID investigators in general are despised in the ville and the club owners are always trying to figure out who is an undercover CID investigator so they can tell everyone else in the ville to look out for them. You will never hear anything about this in the media but could you imagine the up roar if a GI threatened a Korean policemen to where they had to draw whatever weapon they had?
10:24 am on January 7th, 2007 6
I can't believe you are equating jumping on a taxi cab hood or even the beer bottle incident with prisoner abuse. I recommend you watch the news a little more closely because people up the chain of command all got hemmed up as well, up to the one star general who was in charge of the prison.
However, if you feel the soldiers involved in the incidents here in Korea won't get in trouble then that will because of the Koreans not the US Army because the Koreans have the first jurisdiction over the cases since they are off duty crimes.
10:25 am on January 7th, 2007 7
GI, what do you think happens up at the various commanding general's levels (US ambassador too) when they see these blotter reports?
If Koreans engaged in clearly illegal activity feel free to openly go after US military police, then it seems to me that the climate is even worse than I thought.
What do the generals and the ambassador think about a situation where the whole future of ROK-US relations has to hang on the instant decision of a young MP on whether to chamber a round and discharge his weapon?
Sounds like there can be no doubt that one will eventually get discharged and a Korean will be killed.
It's not quite clear to me how Korean (KNP?) police liasion works. Aren't undercover Korean police continually present with CID to preclude stuff like this from happening? Do you mean to say that Caucausian CID agents operating off-post do so without Korean national police in support on the scene?
10:26 am on January 7th, 2007 8
CID has no authority over the club and hotel owners but what they do have authority over is the soldiers. So if they see a soldier engaging in possible prostitution they contact the MPs who do have KNP support to investigate. The CID agents from what I understand just walk around in the ville in civilian clothes, blending in gathering information. They don't actually do any arrests in the ville that I have ever seen. Also keep in mind my knowledge of these things comes from pulling CP all the time. So take it for what is worth.
10:26 am on January 7th, 2007 9
You guys shouldn't get so worked up about this report. I heard about it when it happened and am pretty sure that it was in Stars and Stripes, or at least on one of the blogs.
10:26 am on January 7th, 2007 10
I have an idea for the undercover PMO investigator. Only have Korean American and KATUSA as undercover agent. There is good chance that they are less likely be noticed than White or Black PMO investigators.
10:27 am on January 7th, 2007 11
This information was published in Jun in a Division Daily INSUM, so I think you can safely say it is valid.
10:28 am on January 7th, 2007 12
A few years ago a Western woman driving a car in Seoul, accidentally rear-ended a Korean vehicle in front of her. Yes, it was her fault … she was the malefactor of a small fender-bender.
A crowd of Korean bystanders quickly surrounded her car attracted by the vociferous and belligerant Korean male driver who agressively exited the car she bumped — the Western woman afraid to exit her vehicle tried to reason with him through her opened driver's side window — the Korean mob pulled her out through the driver's window, manhandled her, and held her till the Korean police came.
Let the French Army protect Koreans.
10:29 am on January 7th, 2007 13
Korea is a political order based on the mediocrity and vices of Asian farmers and greedy landlords: therefore, physical force, fraud, corruption, and manhandling Western women are the tools to get what a Korean needs and wants.
Not good, not bad … just different.
GI, optimistically views Korea through an American lens: he thinks Koreans are Americans-in-the-rough (the same way he views Iraqis) — he mistakes them to be natural idealists seeking virtue as a central concern in their society.
Not so, GI — but take heart!
Korea is the most progressive country in the world — in regards to post-modern political philosophy, the Korean exists in opposition to nature, conquering it to serve his comfort and needs: he lives for prosperity — the anti-dote against terrorism. The Korean wave is the hope of a better future because nature does not define what is good for a Korean; the Korean does, and therefore lives-out concretely the post-modern conception of "FREEDOM" of which GI is willing to die for.
In fact, Korea is modernity in its essence.
The reason why you find the Marmot playing dress-up in Korean Hanbok clothing to girlishly admire his "Koreaness" in the mirror… and the GI, like a skid-row preacher, hoping to rehabilitate Koreans " to be all they can be".
Makes me want to break down and cry like Lt. Gen Charles Campbell on 60 Minutes. It's all so fucking beautiful!
Waaaaaaaaaa! (taking a deep breath) Waaaaaaa!
10:29 am on January 7th, 2007 14
Was it you they did it too? That might explain why you hate Koreans so much.
10:29 am on January 7th, 2007 15
She's been watching too many Hollywood movies.
10:30 am on January 7th, 2007 16
So much for the cab driver was cheating the GI so the GI rightfully punched him out theory. Jump on my car and damage it, I guarantee you you're going to pay for the damn thing.
Did you hear about those three GI's who sucker smashed a beer bottle on that Korean guy? Turns out one of them was lying. Really, how much crediblity do they have when they claim one of them was pissed because the Korean bumped into him intentionally? Of course, Korean started all this.
10:32 am on January 7th, 2007 17
Same old tired line.
The world never changes…
Us or Them…
Exaggerate or die, I guess.
GIs always guilty or Koreans….
Which bigot do you want to be?
Pick one, because there is no middle ground.
No room to think…
The chances we will know what happened are slim.
Often, the chances we will get enough information to make an educated guess is not too high.
And if you say something like, "The use of the beer bottle was absolutely uncalled for, and it will hang the soldier, no matter who started the altercation or who was primarily at fault or if fault was close to equal"…
…you'll always get from some people, "So, GIs never do anything wrong!! It's the Koreans!! Ha!!"
—-big sigh—
This is why trying to combat the points of distortion will always fail.
Too many people seem to think giving an inch is to swing to the other extreme, since there are only extremes.
So, pointing out the commonly held and often publicized idea that GIs never or almost never stand trial in Korea and pay for their crimes is clearly not true ….
…..means to too many people that you are saying "GIs never commit crimes!!! They are A-L-W-A-Y-S provoked!!!"
—big sigh—
And when throwing out things like "Sure a lone Korea would attack THREE GIs….sure that's believable…..GIs never do anything wrong, right?….."
It is forgotten that in the initial reports, the Korean was leaving a party/drinking session with friends. And it was these friends who came to his rescue.
What can I take from that?
That "obviously the GIs were outnumbered and had to defend themselves…"…..
no…
We can add that to reasons to see view the "3 GIs vs 1 Korean "proves" the Korea could not have done anything wrong" argument is weak…
11:03 am on January 7th, 2007 18
so, let me try to get this straight, what you're trying to say.
let's say the cab driver cheated the GI (and there's no word that this was the case, but let's say he did anyway). If he cheats me, do I jump up and down on his hood and put a big dent on it? That's really a mature way to solve the problem.
Smash a beer bottle across the face because uh..
1) the guy bumped into you, and it pissed you off.
2) the 4 Korean guys jumped you and your friend so you defended yourself and smashed a beer bottle across his face as a selfdefense move.
3) it's impossibe GI's can get drunk and cause some problems, it's all Koreans who started all the problems. (isn't that what your'e saying here?
11:04 am on January 7th, 2007 19
"Of course, Korean started all this."
" it's impossibe GI's can get drunk and cause some problems, it's all Koreans who started all the problems. (isn't that what your'e saying here?"
No. As I pointed out, that is what you are saying.
With a good number of people, it's swing to the extreme only. No middle ground. Either you are saying all GIs did it or all Koreans deserved it. And a good number of people seem to be clairivoyant and able to know exactly what happened from claims – usually by just one side.
And usually except for a few details, we never get much beyond he said / he said.
But some people seem to be able easily to see who is obviously at fault and how great a fault that is.
11:05 am on January 7th, 2007 20
You are jumping to conclusions. You view everything involving a GI as being as bad as the "concerned citizens" at the scene describe it.
I think it is better to wait until the facts come out before we condemn anyone. I just offer evidence of soldiers getting screwed by taxi drivers which may or may not have started whatever happened since only one side of the story is ever presented in the media. Either way the idiot shouldn't have jumped on the cab and I have maintained since the beginning that he is an idiot.
As far as the beer bottle incident that guy needs to go to jail for using a weapon that seriously injured the Korean national, there is no doubt about that. That is what I said in my post. There is no defending this guy using a weapon even if the Korean national started the fight because it is not legitimate self defense, in fact it is cowardly. He needs to take some combatives classes offered in 2ID if he is such a wimp he has to use a beer bottle in a fight.
So the assumptions you are making from my posting are entirely false. Koreans do not start all the problems and neither do GI's. Idiots start problems and in these two cases it appears the idiots were the two GI's.
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