UPDATE #3: I would like to direct everyone to make sure they read One Free Korea’s take on the barbarian GIs in Hongdae. Â
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UPDATE #2: Is Korea trying to match Japan’s current xenophobia over the big, bad foreign criminals as well. Japan’s current xenophobia has some foreigners in Japan calling for a boycott of Family Mart.Â
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UPDATE #1: More information has come out about why General Bell probably put Hongdae off limits. It is probably because of reaction to this YTN report courtesy of the Marmot about the big, bad foreign menace in Hongdae. The YTN report complains about drunk foreigners whistling and making comments at Korean women and some passing out in the streets. Than finishes this report by talking about the rape arrest of the USFK soldier a few weeks back. I don’t condone guys getting drunk and whistling at women, but basically nothing in this report is different from anything I have seen Korean men do in the downtown streets of Uijongbu for example. The YTN report even complained about drunk foreigners urinating on buildings. You wouldn’t believe how many Koreans I have seen urinate on buildings and many of them weren’t even drunk. I have seen ajummas let their children urinate on buildings.Â
If YTN wants to talk about inappropriate behavior towards women, I have a story for them of when I had to stop a drunk Korean man from publicly beating his wife on the sidewalk one night and no one was doing anything to stop it. You will never see a YTN report on that, however if a drunk foreigner passes out on the sidewalk or urinates on building, quick get the cameras out.Â
Just more racist, hypocritical garbage from the Korean media that you will see no one in the Korean political establishment stand up to and call it the garbage that it is. Unfortunately USFK leaders have caved into the racist garbage as well.Â
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Here we go again:
U.S. Forces Korea commander Gen. B.B. Bell has placed the Hongdae party district off limits to his personnel at night.
The move comes a little more than two weeks after a soldier was accused of raping a South Korean woman in the district, but USFK officials said Bell’s decision was not in reaction to that incident. The action keeps all troops and civilians — including family members, civilian employees and contractors — from the area from 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. daily beginning Wednesday night.
Bell made the call “in order to increase the safety and protection†of his personnel, according to a military news release.
USFK says this change in policy isn’t related to the recent rape arrest of a 2ID soldier a few weeks ago because its for force protection reasons. Hongdae had been off limits from 2002 until last May when it was put back on limits. So what has changed from last May to now? Only one thing, the rape arrest. So this is clearly in response to the rape arrest no matter how they want to spin it. Those of us who have years of Korea experience know that "force protection reasons" is spin because we have seen it before. If this latest off limits decree is for force protection reasons than maybe Killeen, Texas outside of Ft. Hood should be put off limits as well? That place is a heck of a lot more dangerous than Hongdae, yet USFK personnel are supposed to believe this is for force protection reasons?Â
If Hongdae was going to be put off limits again if only one incident happens there then why put it back on limits to begin with? You might as well just keep it off limits. Why put it back on limits if you don’t have the stomach for one incident to happen?Â
Anyone reading this blog for a while knows I have been a strong supporter of General Bell, but in my opinion he is wrong on this one. I understand the USFK leadership is under strong pressure to have no off post incidents because of the current fight over funding and USFK transformation with the Korean government. By continuing to put non-ville locations off limits this funnels the soldiers into the villes where the command can more readily avoid off post incidents from hitting the papers because the ville owners usually do their best to allow the USFK MPs to police the trouble makers. Playing the off limits game always appears to be the simple solution to the command to solve the off post incidents problem.
However, this is where I have a problem with playing the off limits game, despite all the rhetoric by USFK about fighting human trafficking, prostitution, and alcohol abuse; USFK’s own policies continue to ensure this type of activity will continue around the US camps. Unit leaders have to brief and train soldiers about alcohol abuse semi-annually and every time my unit conducted this training, myself and other unit leaders would feel like hypocrites because here we are telling soldiers to drink responsibly and stay away from juicy girl, but what environment do we create for the soldiers to spend most of their free time in? A ville filled with cheap booze and prostitutes. Then we wonder why the blotter report is filled with alcohol related incidents.Â
Basically the ville here is a big play pen for the soldiers. With the curfew and other restrictions on the soldiers they have few options other than go to the ville. There are very limited entertainment options on post so they turn to the ville. Then to top things off the battle buddy policy makes it nearly impossible for the soldiers to carry on any meaningful relationship with anyone other than drinky girls. How many girls would like a boyfriend that has to bring their battle buddy with them on every date, everywhere they go. Not my idea of a romantic time out.Â
I often hear Koreans complain that US soldiers treat Korea like a third world country and my response to this is why be surprised when a soldier thinks Korea is a third world country when the place they spend most of their time in, the ville, is what is found in a third world country.Â
The other thing that bothers me is that the drinking age is raised to 21 to reduce alcohol related incidents, but underage soldiers are still allowed to go into all the clubs. Why are the underage drinkers allowed in these clubs to begin with? Underage drinkers are not allowed into bars in the US so why should it be allowed here? We tell the underage people not to drink but then we set conditions for these guys to fail and get in trouble because the alcohol and sex is waved right in their face. You got 18-20 year old soldiers in a club with ajumma pushing alcohol and half naked juicy girls on them and making these young soldiers feel like kings. A lot of them cannot resist the temptation at their age. So the soldiers drink and get involved with these juicy girls. Then we read the blotter report and wonder why there are so many underage drinking arrests.Â
So what can be done to meet the USFK command’s concerns about off post incidents and allowing the soldiers at least some freedom? This is what I recommend, implement a policy that requires a pass to be out past curfew that additionally allows these soldiers to go to an area like Hongdae as long as they have that pass. Years ago in 2ID you could stay out past curfew and hang out at a place like Hongdae if you had what was called a Warrior Pass. These were great because they created competition within the unit every week to get one of the limited number of Warrior Passes authorized for each unit. Our unit First Sergeant was responsible for giving out the Warrior Passes and maintaining accountability of them. My First Sergeant would only give a pass to soldiers that were doing a great job and were deserving of a Warrior Pass. A side benefit of this that my unit First Sergeant really liked, was that it gave him even more leverage to influence soldier behavior when he was the holder of the coveted Warrior Passes.Â
Will Warrior Passes end off post incidents? No it won’t because the vast majority of soldiers who get in trouble off post are usually not top notch soldiers that could win a Warrior Pass to begin with. Since they are not usually top soldiers that means they are more willing to bend the rules and get in trouble. So if you have a curfew and off limits places you will still have that select few who will push their luck and think they can get away with it. When they do break the rules they need to be slammed for it. There is a saying in the Army that leaders spend 90% of their time dealing with the 10% of the problem soldiers in their unit and this 10% are the ones that get in trouble and unit leaders worth the rank on their uniform need to constantly supervise. Since unit leaders have to constantly spend so much time dealing with this 10%, at least a Warrior Pass is a way to tangibly tell that other 90% doing the right thing that, hey we appreciate what you are doing and thus trust you enough to act like a responsible adult past curfew.Â
When I was in Iraq, my unit commander had the authority to have an E6 lead a combat patrol in the Sunni Triangle, yet unit commanders in Korea don’t have the authority to allow an E6 to walk through Hongdae at night? What message are we sending to our junior leaders? There are better ways to handle the conditions in Korea, but too often it appears leaders grasp for what appears to be the easiest solution, and that is how we keep playing the off limits game. The off limits game allows leaders to avoid any responsibility in actually trying to solve the problem to begin with. I have plenty of ideas that I have expressed on this blog before to improve conditions in Korea, but have always felt that the Warrior Pass is the easiest way to instantly improve morale within the USFK ranks because it does not lump the 90% of the soldiers who are doing the right thing with policies implemented for the 10% causing the problems. But hey what do I know?
More discussion on this can be found at both the Marmot’s Hole and Lost Nomad.
7:54 pm on February 3rd, 2007 1
[...] UPDATE: GI Korea has a very, very good post (a MUST READ) on why putting Hondae “off-limits” is a mistake, the problems of “the ville” and how USFK might improve the situation. Related Posts (Maybe)Public Service Announcement (from the Marmot’s Hole) [...]
10:52 pm on February 3rd, 2007 2
I think the best answer to the solution is to just let these esteemed members of the USFK to go and serve their country against the Muslim heathens in Iraq. I wish the USFK would pull all the troops out of Korea and redeploy them all in Iraq. No more gawking, whistling, laughing GI’s who mosy on down the streets thinking and acting like they own the streets and the people as conquered playthings. I was a KATUSA once, I know what US soldiers think about Koreans. I know, because I had to take your abusive crap for years. It looks like you just can’t take any criticism against your sacred military.
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11:18 pm on February 3rd, 2007 3
from the OP:
“I don’t condone guys getting drunk and whistling at women, but basically nothing in this report is different from anything I have seen Korean men do in the downtown streets of Uijongbu for example. “
The YTN story is full of the usual foreign bogeyman stuff, but I question part of the statement above. In the evening, drunk men rule the streets of Korea; however, catcalling is a cultural thing that seems to be much more common in North America and some other parts of the world than in northeast Asia. A very attractive colleague of mine complained about how she got leered at all the time in Mexico and enjoyed feeling free to walk the streets in China without being harassed. The only Asian country where I’d ever experienced catcalling was Malaysia, and it was from ethnic Indian men only. The Chinese and Malays, far more numerous, never bothered me. When I shared this observation with an Indian-Malaysian woman, she told me it was much worse in India itself.
I’m not saying drunk Korean men never leer at Korean women, but drunk foreign men may be more prone to do so.
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11:32 pm on February 3rd, 2007 4
I just watched the video clip linked over at the Marmot’s. Save for one group of three foreign men outside a convenience store, I saw only drunkenness, no leering or threatening behavior. I wonder if Korean viewers will see the obvious hypocrisy of complaining about foreign men staggering around the streets drunk.
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12:07 am on February 4th, 2007 5
Well, I had a comment on the Warrior Pass, but first I got to answer “Tom” the ex-KATUSA who was so brutalized by the “esteemed” members of the USFK, of which I was a member for “a few” years. My words are as follows: Quit ya Biching Tom. You could have been a REAL R.O.K. Soldier, but no you took the easy way because of your education and money, became a KATUSA. Easier life and duty for sure. Automatic promotion to Sergeant with time served—weither you deserved it or not. WOW! Some of the big mean americans were mean to you? Close your pie hole Tom, your a rich kid that likely never could have cut it as a real ROK soldier. I knew a few of you guys. I liked most all of you. Some of you took me home to eat with your Mom and Dad. Some of you took me around the culture sites of Seoul. I met an older ex-KATUSA about mid 40s once, HE took me and my friend into his roadside outdoor shops and told us of his fond memories as a KATUSA. SO! WHAT THE FU– HAPPENED TO YOU TOM? Did you get all high and mighty with your americans only to have them slap you down?
Back to issues at hand. that Warrior Pass sounds like a great idea. It isn’t. It opens the door of favoratism. We had blotter reports at the Hump in the 80s and 90s, but they were for sh-t that DESERVED to be on the blotter. Your blotter got bigger when you started a curfew nation wide. It was not called for. If you don’t educate the soldiers about the people of the country they serve in then guess what—they don’t know—and it’s the commands fault. If you say the country is unsafe after certain hours, your saying it is a third would country. No curfew in america and I never heard of one in Germany, but on Germany I don’t KNOW, just never heard of one. So, you make more rules—more rules get broken. It really is that simple!
We had two weeks in the 80s of classes from this Korean guy. we learned alot. He also told us there was no Prostitution in Korea before the Americans came. I was looking forward to those classes when I returned for my second tour—so I could ask him about the COFFEE SHOP GIRLS!
But the classes were a GOOD idea, so they had to go. To be replaced with NOTHING.
I spent a total of nine years in Korea. As an E4,I spent a mere 5 days training with the White Horse Battalion in the hills, lost ten pounds in five days. We got nothing for this training from the USA. But it was an education on the ROK SOLDIERS for us and an education for the ROK SOLDIERS on USA TROOPS. Start that up again!!!!
Back to “tom”, I do agree with you about pulling my American soldiers out of Korea. You and your country don’t need us or deserve us. I’m all for pulling us out of korea. It is an ungreatfull, thum-up-the-butt country. After we pull out, remember how much you hate us and call China next time.
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12:42 am on February 4th, 2007 6
Being one who is supposed to follow this regulation I can say that it really doesn’t affect me. It affects those that prolly shouldn’t be there in the first place. How so? I don’t get in trouble. Point blank. If I go somewhere, even though I am a foreigner, I just stay out of trouble. And since Hongdae is not patrolled by the MP’s I don’t have to worry about being “carded” and carried off. Now, to be honest, I don’t go there that often. I think I have been there once since I have been in Korea (and that was a long time ago). Also, as far as Tom is concerned, there are issues with troops being here and a lot of us get the wrong idea of Korea cause we don’t go any further than the villes right off post. This leads to other issues when we do go somewhere that is more civilized. I don’t condone these actions but I think that the command of Korea has to establish a way for soldier to find other means of recreation besides going to the bars during the weekends. And I couldn’t agree with Dan more. This new curfew is because of the incident that happened a few weeks ago. Point blank. No matter how they try to sugar coat it. It still smells!!
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5:48 am on February 4th, 2007 7
I don’t know about the other areas in USFK but in 2ID there is an extensive program to educate soldiers about Korea:
http://rokdrop.com/2005/03/15/2id-getting-cultural/
At the replacement company the soldiers spend two weeks receiving Korea focused training. It is an outstanding program. However, once these guys are released in the ville much of it goes to waste.
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6:09 am on February 4th, 2007 8
Had to read quickly….
I would have to witness the bastard foreigners at play in Korea to give an informed opinion, but I know from the times I walked through Korea-citizen entertainment areas in and around Seoul and in Wonju, I saw skirt chasing. I also saw a lot of skirts chasing the men.
When I first arrived in Korea, I had in mind what the Korean students in France had told me about the place and how conservative it was. I was suprised a good bit to learn to recognize all the many, many forms of prostitution establishments you could find everywhere. I was also suprised at how frequently fully grown, responsible adults went out to party like college aged kids in the US.
I did conclude in the end that American college aged kids get into fist fights more than Korean men, but the Korean men get in many more drunken confrontations.
But when it comes to what I would consider objectionable behavior out in public, I saw more of it in the adult Korean entertainment areas than I saw around campus at the different colleges I have gone to in the US (or the colleges I was around in Korea). —— but —— I also didn’t go to college and go out in the US after “raves” became a popular thing…..
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6:39 am on February 4th, 2007 9
GI Korea,
Depending on the timing of Bell’s decision on the off-limits and when the command got the word about this Yonhap video news piece —
—I can see an argument for putting the area off limits.
We know this area, I believe, from back in the Sinchon “murder attempt” event a couple of years ago, right? This is the same place?
Whatever really happened there, we do know that besides a GI being stupid enough to pull a knife and hold it up to a guy’s throat, —– there was a camera man activist —– who just happened to be convienently on hand at the time — to capture images of the bastard GIs who just started whooping up on some poor, Korean college aged males who were doing nothing more than trying to protect the dignity of the Korean streets by doing something I can’t ever remember seeing a Korean do to another Korean stranger —- protesting their behavior……which was describes as being loud and then dancing on a taxi…..if I remember correctly…..
You see where I’m going with that….
The same activist camera man said he had plans to go up to the Uijongbu area to capture the GI rape of Korea’s soul as well….
I also have caught tid bits here and there over the years about the Korean police alerting USFK about plans by anti-US groups to stage confrontations between locals and the GIs…….though I can’t ever remember one of those events actually happening….or at least can’t remember ever having read in the papers that one of these incidents was most likely staged….
Given all of this, if I were in the USFK command, and the rape took place a few weeks ago, and then I caught wind that the Korean TV news media was going to start circling the areas like sharks, thus bringing much national attention to this area, I’d put it off limits for some time, and I’d be doing it for force protection (as well as for the image of USFK).
Because I can say with 99.9% confidence, since this Yonhap news item came out, there will be civic groups made up of young Korean men and women (and headed by middle aged career activists or connected to other civic groups that have older members) —– who will be making plans to try to exploit Korean society’s (brief or more lasting) attention on this issue.
They will try to find a way to milk it and stoke it.
And one of the ways they have planned to use in the past is staging physical, violent confrontations….
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6:42 am on February 4th, 2007 10
Below is a comment I put up at Marmot’s about a project I just decided to try.
I am going to post it hear and at Lost Nomads and maybe at USFK Forums – places I read daily and where a lot of expats who comment about these issues gather in the K-blogsphere.
…
What the heck…..I’m going to post this on the few K-blogs I read daily who have comments on this issue……
I have the storage space and bandwidth on my site (at least for now…
Here is a project for those interested…
Take your camcorders — or your cellphone video cameras —
and head out to 1. the “villes” and places like Hongik University, and film what goes on. Film the foreign bastards and if you can find it within yourself — film just the locals out for fun too…
2. go on over to Apkujong and other well-known pretty much exclusively Korean entertainment districs and film away.
3. somebody can happen to find their way over to the well-known prostution areas too….(remember to take the camera!!)
And you all can do this in whatever city you want — because I know from Wonju – there are Korean centered entertainment areas that are fairly generic to what I’ve seen elsewhere (and prostution places – like near the train station) and areas where GIs who don’t trek over to Seoul (1 1/5 – 3 hours by bus) go in Wonju.
Then email me about transferring the video up to my site to check out and give brief editing with mainly titles added.
Be sure to keep track of dates and locations.
I won’t (at least I believe I won’t) tack on Yonhap type editorializing comments.
It would be nice to have a personal, written summary of the video and what you believe it shows about this “foreigners on the town” and “Koreans on the town” issue.
Basically, what I have in mind is — let’s us in the K-blogsphere put some moving images in the place of the comments we recurrently have on this recurrent theme about the expat community in Korea and Koreans themselves…
Let those with the eye and drive show us what they mean when we all comment on this stuff.
I honestly never hung around with GIs much or in the GI entertainment areas. When I went out, it was usually with Koreans and a little less frequently it was with other ESL expats.
I did live above an older Korean entertainment/restaurant area in Wonju — and could not sleep 3 to 5 nights a week due to the loudness of either the drunk Koreans celebrating or the drunk Koreans fighting without their fists.
I have also had to walk through entertainment areas in a couple of Korean cities either to get to work or school early in the morning or late at night.
But, again, let’s get some video reporting to give us all a clear idea of what we mean by the bastard foreigners or just regular happenings in Korean entertainment areas stuff that is a recurrent theme in the K-blogsphere and Korean society.
my email: usinkorea@hotmail.com
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7:22 am on February 4th, 2007 11
I hope the amateur foreign cameramen and women are careful. I was threatened once for taking photographs of a demonstration and on another occasion for taking pictures of a monkey performing on a street.
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7:38 am on February 4th, 2007 12
The next time I go to Korea, I’ll probably shoot some videos, but I’ll probably ask a Korean male to go along with me.
Unless I use a cellphone camera which can be used more indescretely and tucked away immediately after use.
I also wouldn’t recommend hanging around for hours at a time filming.
But, seeing an expat get the shit kicked out of him (or even severely verbally abused) for ——- doing what Yonhap and a couple of anti-US/USFK groups sometimes do ——- would be thought-provoking in the K-blogsphere (and perhaps beyond) as well……
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9:01 am on February 4th, 2007 13
[...] Bump and Update: Regarding this subject, I’d like to direct you to several related/excellent reads by fellow bloggers: GI Korea offers his opinion and advice on the off-limits game,  The Marmot’s Hole covers a news story from YTN about foreigner’s behavior in Hongdae and One Free Korea reminds us that the greastest threat facing us (in South Korea) isn’t the North Korean army, after all. Go read and if you have an opinion (come on, I know you do), be sure to let your voice be heard – I’m sure they’ll appreciate your feedback. [...]
10:45 am on February 4th, 2007 14
The story is the same, only the players have changed (on both sides of the equation). When I first came to Korea, way back in 1983, all the elements you see today were in place. Prostitution was rampant, in the Korean and American entertainment areas and only two things were different:
1. Koreans stayed in their areas, Americans stayed in their areas, not too much mixing of cultures or subcultures went on.
2. On the whole, my generation was a LOT more respectful of cultural and personal differences than today’s generation. That applied to both Koreans and Americans.
If incidents like the ones described in this and other articles happened, the Koreans, knowing exactly on which side their toast was buttered, left Uncle Sugar and his boys alone for the most part and ignored any ‘indiscretions’ that might have occured. They trusted that the incidents would be dealt with accordingly and left it at that. Of course, times change. Back then we used to hold unit functions like our Christmas party inside one of the downtown clubs and bring in some of the dancers from that club to entertain after the official party part of the evening was over. Back then the only American women you saw were some civilians and some nurses in Air Force medical clinics.
Now, on to how to handle the current situation, the only permanent solution has been put forth above by the other pundits. Pull all of our troops completely out of Korea forever and without regret. However, legally and practically that won’t happen for a very long time now. So, what to do with all the rowdy boys that can’t seem to keep their mouths shut or their flys zipped up when they get a few drinks in them?
I’ve got a simple solution. Add to the 2 weeks of indoctrination that all the Army people go through, one class on the consequences of screwing up in Korea – A FREE, ONE WAY TICKET TO IRAQ!!! No questions, no complaints and NO WHINING!!! Short tour the guys who want more action and send them to where the action is. If they are keen for the chase, send them to Al Anbar province where they’ll get their fill of chasing, INSURGENTS.
Serving in Korea, alongside our brothers in uniform in the Korean military, was and still is a privilege that should be extended to a limited number of troops that can handle the responsibility. End of story.
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10:49 am on February 4th, 2007 15
Oh, one last thing for all of you that are thinking that my policy on reducing incidents in Korea is unfair and will send a bunch of malcontents to fight the war on terrorism, sometimes malcontents make the best fighting men because once you get in combat you have no time for useless thoughts. You’re mind is focused clearly on staying alive and keeping all your buddies alive too.
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12:04 pm on February 4th, 2007 16
Tim in regards to indoctrination training it is already happening in 2ID since 2005:
http://rokdrop.com/2005/03/15/2id-getting-cultural/
As far as sending malcontents to Anbar I like it in theory but it can’t happen because the Army doesn’t have individual replacement in Iraq like during Vietnam. Units are rotating to Iraq as a whole unit and come back as a whole unit. Plus the cost of continuously moving trouble makers out of Korea would be huge. The guys that cause trouble need to be slammed extremely hard. I’m talking field grade article 15’s and removal of pass privledges from post for 6 months. I can personally tell you that gets soldier’s attention real quick.
I like your idea by the way of having US imbeds with the ROK Army. It would be kind of like a reverse KATUSA program. It would make doing training with ROK Army units much easier because even though we have KATUSAs they are so intimidated with dealing with regular ROK Army they are not all that effective. I found US Korean-American soldiers to be much better at interacting with ROK Army units and coordinating joint training.
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2:33 pm on February 4th, 2007 17
“USFK says this change in policy isn’t related to the recent rape arrest of a 2ID soldier a few weeks ago because its for force protection reasons. ”
The original USFK off-limits mesage the rape of the old Korean lady.
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2:34 pm on February 4th, 2007 18
sorry….the original USFK message mentioned the rape of the old Korean lady.
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3:27 pm on February 4th, 2007 19
Its my hope that the GI’s that live in Korea have a terrible time. I hope they have the worst experence in their life and harbor a long deep hatred of Korea and Korean people.
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5:13 pm on February 4th, 2007 20
That’s a done deal, Asshat.
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2:08 am on February 5th, 2007 21
Tim;
I was in Korea in the 70’s as a PCV and, on occassion, I would travel to Seoul and Iteawon. it seems things haven’t changed at all as far as the
interaction between soldiers and Koreans in the “entertainment’ area.
In those days there were joint patrols with American MP’s and Korean police. Do they still have that?
Just a VERY small point.
GI’s used ‘mamasan” and “papasan” alot THEN and I know that
the Koreans REALLY hated that.
Do soldiers still say that?
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2:59 am on February 5th, 2007 22
Asshat; you sound like tom. That’s not a good thing by the way. I retired in 2005, my last year in Korea was 2003. I have a few Korean Friends there and plan a visit back, in Sept this year. As stated before, I spent nine years in Korea, from 88-92, 95-97, then Bosnia, back to ujongbu in 02 and the Hump in 03. While in the states I would meet Soldiers that had been in areas north (2ID) with a curfew, and soldiers who served south. Those in curfew areas hated their time in Korea. Those without curfew really injoyed their time there. So, as Mark stated above, you got your wish KATUSA. I’m very happy that I never met people such as you and tom during my nine years in Korea. I had good times, traveled to places not called “The Ville”, went to Korean Bars with College Students. If it could be done in Korea, I did most of it. Never got in trouble, (off post). Stayed alert and stayed alive. Worked hard and partyed hard.
But I still want the U.S. Military out of Korea. The Soldiers deserve better. Better Leadership and a Better Host Country. From experience, I can say that the curfew is a bad idea. But it is the Army way. Punishment for all rather that the 10% of the dirtbags and blue-falcons that fu-k up. It is the easy way, and requires little leadership ability. I could have extended in Korea for my last year but went to Hood and Iraq instead. That being said, service in Iraq should not be used as a tool to manage the dirtbags, even if it were possible. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR SAYING!!
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3:06 am on February 5th, 2007 23
“I hope they have the worst experence in their life and harbor a long deep hatred of Korea and Korean people.”
That long deep hatred of Korean people by GI’s have been the case from day one – way before 2002, anti-american protests, even before the 1980’s. I think Koreans took and took for so long, and finally a major backlash that had been building and building. For instance, the traditional GI terms “mamma san’ and “papasan”. which are still used to this day, drips of derogatory disdain of the people that they are supposedly protecting. Koreans are expected as nothing good for, other then doing the GI’s laundry and pressing their uniforms. I wonder how effective the USFK would be in the event of war when a lot of them had said in front of me, “I wouldn’t die for this shit covered smelly country full of slit eyes” – and this was when I was KATUSA in the 1980’s – way before any anti-American protests. You can’t possibly tell me I imagined all this up.
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3:14 am on February 5th, 2007 24
Richard,
I’m not a soldier, but I believe the MP patrols in Itaewon still take place. I can remember a huge brawl between something like 30 Irish expats and a group of bouncers (for a private agency) that work for several clubs in the area, and in checking on information about that event, I found that USFK had placed that bar off-limits because the manager refused to allow MPs to come in and check the status of GIs who might be in it as part of the routine street patrols.
My guess is that the big difference between today and when you were there is that there are a heck of a lot more Westerners living in Korea and heading to Itaewon. It isn’t just a GI stomping ground any more.
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4:03 am on February 5th, 2007 25
Tom.
well, I guess you answered my question about “mamasan” and ‘papasan” Hopewfully someone will tell the soldiers in orientation that is a definate no-no…
Back in Cheoungju in the 70’s(hold on, this is another old man story) I used to frequent some drinking establishments called makkoli houses with my fellow teachers. They had young ladies there to keep us company (and spending our money ) MANY times I would see their arms scarred from cigarette burns..I asked what had happened and they said that KOREAN soldiers did that!!!! The ROK marines. according to them where the worst and many times when I ws visiting places like Osan or Camp Humprheys I would hear the same lament..Almost all the girls said they would rather have a GI boyfriend then a Korean.
I could speak Korean then and they had no reason to lie..I also kept a diary so I wouldn’t mis-remember…
Are things the same today?
How do Korean men/soldiers treat these kind of women?
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5:52 am on February 5th, 2007 26
Richard,
You might want to check out this site
http://kalaniosullivan.com/KunsanAB/8thFW/Howitwasb11d.html#Prostitution
You could email O’Sullivan about it too. He has answered my emails in the past. He’s been around in Korea for a long time and was in USFK way back when too.
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6:14 am on February 5th, 2007 27
“Almost all the girls said they would rather have a GI boyfriend then a Korean.”
Is that what the bar girls and prostitutes told you? Any reason why the number of Filipino and Russian girls have increased, gradually replacing the Korean girls in those camp towns over these years? Is there any possibility that they may have been looking for a ticket out of economic misery, so that’s why they told you what you wanted to hear? No, that’s impossible. All the girls in the world want big strong handsome invincible GI’s. Newsflash, you should have heard some of the not so flattering stuff and horror stories they said about the American soldiers behind their backs.
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6:27 am on February 5th, 2007 28
I have not once heard a GI call a Korean mama-san or papa-san everyone says odashi and ajumma now. Tom is spreading disinformation.
Tom thinks US soldiers won’t fight for Korea, that is funny because we thought the same thing about a few of our KATUSAs, that they wouldn’t fight to defend their own country. I actually had one KATUSA tell me that. He was my all time dirtbag KATUSA, however the vast majority of my KATUSAs I had no problems with. Unlike Tom I don’t seek to label the entire Korean people because of a few dirtbags I met.
The US Army has proven in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other world wide areas that we are willing to fight, what has Korea proven? The 2BCT deployed from Korea to fight in Iraq in 2005. Those soldiers would have fought just as hard to protect Korea as they did fighting in Iraq.
Plus Tom is holding grudges from the 80’s. I got news for Tom the US military is a way different organization than the 80’s just like Korea is very different now than is was in the 1980’s and both for the better.
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6:55 am on February 5th, 2007 29
I cannot believe that US soldier’s attitude has changed for any better since the 1980’s. The superioritic attitude was so much ingrained in the average US soldier that I served with, I find it hard to believe indeed. I think it’s gotten even worse today because back then, the US army wasn’t as desperate to recruit from uneducated gang members and criminals, as they are today. Going back to the KATUSA’s, Korean guys who’s English just wasn’t nearly up to snuff got confused easily from American slangs. We try our best but sometimes we just didn’t understand the orders barked out in too rapid American slangs. What happens soon is we get labeled lazy and incompetent. We didn’t expect that we get special treatment but I suspect that some Americans deliberately did this to prove some point. Personally I didn’t have this problem, but I’ve heard many ex KATUSA’s who feared that they screw up because they didn’t understand what the order was.
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7:33 am on February 5th, 2007 30
Once again Tom is spreading disinformation. You are picking the wrong site to spread disinformation. The good old leftist claim that the military is filled with gang members and criminals is not true. Here are recruiting qualifications for the US Army from the http://www.goarmy.com the official US Army recruiting webpage:
* U.S. citizen or permanent resident alien
* 17-41 years old
* Healthy and in good physical condition
* In good moral standing
* High School or Equivalent Education
Notice everyone in the military has a high school diploma or GED which means the US military has higher education standards then the vast majority of civilian businesses in the US. Also in good moral standing means that the criminals from the jails you think is filling the ranks is simply not true.
Truthfully I find your comments filled with undertones of racism. I had a KATUSA one time that refused to take orders from a black female sergeant. He felt that someone so educated like himself that attends Seoul National University shouldn’t have to take orders from a female that was from the hood that he was more educated than and was also older than. My senior KATUSA and I wanted to send him to the regular ROK Army where he could only take orders from fellow Koreans. This KATUSA couldn’t believe it and was irrate. The battalion ROK Army sergeant major compromised and moved him to another American company.
Tom your comments and 1980s grudges sound just like this racist KATUSA.
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7:55 am on February 5th, 2007 31
Don’t be ridiculous. I had no problems taking orders from a black guy (although I never had a black gal giving me orders which would be no problem anyway) as long as he respect me as a soldier, not some Korean “slicky boy” only good for ironing his shirt. You are being dishonest when you deny that lot of American soldier (if not most) had disdain for Korean culture. I don’t care if you don’t like my culture or think it’s people are stupid and backwards undeserving of any respect. Just don’t make it a butt of jokes in front of me, keep it to yourself.
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8:00 am on February 5th, 2007 32
Furthermore just because that’s the official US Military standards, it doesn’t mean the recruiters aren’t desparate enough to fudge a lot of records and overlook certain criminal backgrounds, especially at a time when they’re having problems finding people to go to Iraq and die in a meaningless religious war. What I’m trying to say is they are scraping the bottom of the barrels. Isn’t your military even bribing Mexicans to join with the promise of a citizenship? Don’t tell me that’s misinformation too?
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9:35 am on February 5th, 2007 33
Tom;
This was a LONG time ago ..and the girls I saw inCheoungju NEVER saw a GI…Why would they lie? I asked many of my Korean male friends and they had no idea how the gilrs got the marks on their arms and didn’t care…
Sure, I knew some soldiers that where A**holes but I also heard many stories of girls taking advantage of some naive farmboy from Kansas.
By the way, just a short bio;
I was a PCV for three years and then taught CLEP and GED course for one year to soldiers at Camp Humpreys and even for three months on top of a mountain that was a Hawk Missile battery.
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9:41 am on February 5th, 2007 34
My point of reference was a long time ago. I can say that back then, there WAS disdain..Korea smelled, (they used human fertilizer), they didn’t understand the language or the culture and only interacted with prostitutes or “dishonest” cab drivers..add alcohol ….
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9:56 am on February 5th, 2007 35
I believe Tom is a fake.
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12:52 pm on February 5th, 2007 36
Good post GI Korea, great points.
Tom sounds like an angry dork, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he were a fake. I’ve been in country for a few months now (not Army anymore, but I have friends here who are) and I have a few points to make.
~There are a LOT of Korean-American soldiers here in Korea and the idea that they could be lumped into a “Korea-hating” stereotype is retarded.
~If Koreans complain about American racism, they need to be more mindful of their own racism. It’s certainly not a majority of the population, but I’ve known a few Koreans to bad mouth US soldiers based on their race, sure the soldiers don’t know what’s being said, but the tone of voice and other non-verbal cues give off everything that needs to be said.
~I have NEVER heard “mamasan” or “papasan” outside of some weird Korean caricature of US soldiers. Perhaps it was said back in the day, it’s not the term du jour anymore. Ajushiu and ajumma is what I’ve heard, and it’s a term of respect in Korean, what more could you want?
~Do some people with criminal records and whatnot slip through the cracks? Yeah. Is that representative of the whole military? No. Is that even representative of a plurality of it? Not even.
~Koreans are up in arms every week about what the latest “youth generation” is doing. Then they complain that Americans don’t toe the Korean cultural line from a generation ago? First, get the Korean kids in Gangnam, Hongdae, Apgu, etc. to stop making out, getting drunk, and hooking up randomly before getting down on Americans.
~Americans won’t fight for Korea? Odd since it seems that there are more people in USFK who volunteered for their military service than Koreans who volunteered for theirs. Put another way, more Koreans try to get out of serving in Korea than Americans do. Seems like Koreans are the ones who won’t fight for Korea.
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1:44 pm on February 5th, 2007 37
I am sorry I am wrong. American soldiers love Koreans and Korean culture, and think of Koreans as equal partners. And there is peace in this world kumbaya.
Every bad impressions that I had of USFK is all made up fake. But ask “Richard” if I made it all up.
“My point of reference was a long time ago. I can say that back then, there WAS disdain..Korea smelled, (they used human fertilizer), they didn’t understand the language or the culture and only interacted with prostitutes or “dishonest†cab drivers..add alcohol ….”
And all I’m saying is, there still is this disdain and that nothing really has changed. I’m not a KATUSA now and I’ve been out of Korea for a while now, but I woudn’t be surprised if that’s how it still is, but much worse. And that the backlash against the USFK didn’t just happen out of a vaccum. It was building up for decades until the wine bottle cork got popped, especially in this day in age of Internet and sophisticated communication medium that makes covering up of American soldiers’ problematic arrogant attitude toward the natives in their own damn country (this is what makes me the most infuriating). As for American soldiers not wanting to fight for Koreans, that’s what I was told by a number of American soldiers themselves back in the hey days. They told me they thought subhuman Korean lives weren’t worth one American life. My impressions were formed based on what I was told. Is that my fault too?
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1:45 pm on February 5th, 2007 38
Had a friend back in 1990, she had sig burns on her left forearm, about four or so. She also had some cut marks there and on her legs. She told me, (after almost a year long friendship) that she did it to herself. The cause was the pain caused by a GI that lived with her during his tour and made many promises, than PCSed with no warning. She told me the physical pain blocked the mental pain.
I agree; tom must be a fake. I never knew a KATUSA to be that ignorant. Most all were very bright and understood english as well as I. My experience with Koreans in general is that they don’t like to SAY no. Even if it isn’t possible. They will find another way to express it. Unless you are really close.
So many stories—many happened after midnight—glad there was no curfew at the Hump during my first seven years in Korea. My last two years, 02-03, were really a waste of my time.
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2:15 pm on February 5th, 2007 39
“The cause was the pain caused by a GI that lived with her during his tour and made many promises, than PCSed with no warning.”
Not surprised. She was just a disposable item, after used. That’s the norm between USFK soldiers and camp town prostitutes looking for a way out of Korea. There is a certain understanding between the two, that both use each other for something. Now those women are Filipinos and Russians.
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2:49 pm on February 5th, 2007 40
Tom is confusing respecting “Korean culture” with respecting “ville culture” which is what the vast majority of GIs in Korea experience. Let me repost what Tom conveniently forgot:
I often hear Koreans complain that US soldiers treat Korea like a third world country and my response to this is why be surprised when a soldier thinks Korea is a third world country when the place they spend most of their time in, the ville, is what is found in a third world country.
There is little I respect about the ville and is it any wonder GIs find little to respect about the ville culture either?
I think Tom is the real deal. He sounds like some of the lazy slacker KATUSAs I had who used to piss off the vast majority of all my KATUSA soldiers that did a great job. It is funny how quickly they change their attitude when threatened with sending them to the real ROK Army.
I remember I had a KATUSA complain to me because his roomate played rap music and wanted me to tell him to stop playing rap music. I told him young American listen to rap music, as long as he doesn’t play it at excessive levels I’m not going to tell him anything. This is something you need to work out with your roommate instead of talking to me. He told me he didn’t want to listen to rap music and wanted to change rooms to room with a KATUSA. I told him he is in a US unit and he volunteered to join a US unit thus he needs to adjust to life with American soldiers, if he didn’t like it I can ask the ROK Army sergeant major to transfer him to a regular ROK Army unit, but as far as I’m concerned he staying in his room with his American roommate.
I have lived with ROK Army units before and most of their barracks are long open bays with one radio on one side of the room. When I hear KATUSAs gripe about something as stupid as rap music I always think back to how the real ROK Army lives. Tom sounds like one of those KATUSAs that really needed to go live with the real ROK Army if he didn’t like serving with a US unit.
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5:42 pm on February 5th, 2007 41
GI Korea,
The only person I’ve ever heard use the term ‘mamma-san’ was a retired ROK colonel.
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11:50 pm on February 5th, 2007 42
tom; The woman in question did not work as a prostitute, She was a good friend of mine. How is it that I, an AMERICAN GI, have more respect for this KOREAN WOMAN that had been wronged than You have.
You call her names ONLY because she was involved with Americans.
You offend your own people and you offend me. It was not the “norm” as tom said, but it happened to her. I also witnessed a korean man ‘beat the sh-t out of his disposable girlfriend, in the middle of the street. This happened often. I also saw two korean girls beating and kicking an older korean woman. If I were tom, I would assume this to be common in korea and also assume from this that korea IS a third world country.
As to “mamma-san” & papa-san—9 years and I never heard it used.
Tom, there is nothing you can blam on americans that korean men are not also guilty of, so give your racism a rest.
The katusa’s that I knew were great guys. Glad i didn’t know you.
Another story, I’ll make it short, the katusa’s at the Hump wanted to be called rok soldiers. The Battalion CO had a meeting in the theater and informed them that if they wanted to be called rok soldiers he would arrange a transfer for all katusa that wanted to be called rok soldiers. THERE WERE NO TAKERS.
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8:58 am on February 6th, 2007 43
“Is Korea trying to match Japan’s current xenophobia over the big, bad foreign criminals as well.”
Haha… Nice come there, idiot.
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12:36 am on February 10th, 2007 44
Thank God I wasn’t a KATUSA. Can you imagine living a life under a fear of being sent to ROK Army? I can’t speak for other Koreans, but when I was little, the biggest fear I had was going to ROK Army. I’m sure a lot of other men feel the same way, hence trying to dodge the conscription.
Two points I’d like to make.
1) I don’t think it’s logical to say that Americans are somehow more patriotic and willing to die for their country (or Korea) because it’s an all-volunteer force. You don’t think Koreans would do the same thing if they got $20,000/year, air conditioned barracks, a commissary, an actual gym with weights, an opportunity to live in many different countries among other things?
2) I believe in equality. The reality is that people’s lives are determined so much by their citizenship. I don’t like it, but that’s just the reality. So let’s just look at the KATUSA’s. Some KATUSAs are the brightest and the smartest guys in Korea. Something tells me that they might think it’s so low of them to take orders from a high school graduate from a not-so-well-to-do family. Had they been US citizens, they wouldn’t have to, so in a way, they might be bitter. I know i would be. After all, don’t most of us believe in a system where people are judged based on merits rather than citizenships? I’m not saying that KATUSA’s shouldn’t have to follow orders or we should get rid of conscription. I’m a pragmatic guy, and a realist, but I’m just trying to provide another viewpoint.
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4:46 am on February 10th, 2007 45
Ethan, on this blog I have long advocated on this blog for the ROK Army to begin a slow transformation to an all volunteer force and there was actually some signs last month of this happening.
http://rokdrop.com/2007/01/23/first-signs-of-an-all-volunteer-rok-army/
However the politicians are hesistant to pay the soldiers in this program what they deserve, they have been so used to getting defense on the cheap from the draftees.
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5:47 am on February 10th, 2007 46
Ethan: Why were you afraid to serve your Country?
It’s OK for The GI to leave his wife and his kids for 12 months and serve the same funtion. But it’s not OK for you?
I knew very few GIs that WANTED to come to Korea, and spend the year without their loved ones and cars and WalMart and freedom.
But America said go and do as your told. They did come to your country to help if needed.
Ethan, I wonder if you would have been there, if needed, to protect Korea. Perhaps you might have/will be happy to let GIs fight and die for your country.
I don’t know. Don’t realy care. Just providing another view point from one of those less educated leaders.
One last point: You can have a degree, but still not know how to be a Soldier. A degree makes you educated, not intelligent.
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6:05 am on February 10th, 2007 47
Another point: I know many Soldiers that DO have a degree. A KATUSA will not know this unless he asked. To be honest, they have no reason to ask. To dent your feelings on american Soldiers coming from a not-well-to-do family. I live on 80 acres of land that my family owns, new car (Japanese), all bills were paid before I retired, and I don’t need to work, unless I just want to have seven figures in my account. Again, as a KATUSA, you would not know this about me. How is that for Equal?
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10:13 am on February 25th, 2007 48
[...] soldier knows the Hongdae off limits order is not about "force protection reasons", but about keeping he big, bad foreigners away from Korean women, so here is a way to do [...]
11:29 pm on February 25th, 2007 49
As a Korean-American U.S. soldier, I went to Korea with an open mind, but came to the conclusion (my opinion) that the majority of Korean people are racist, but too timid to act on it in any kind of noticeable way. Thankfully.
The majority of GI’s that end up in Korea will only be there for a year. Very few Koreans speak functional English, and to think that some 18-21 year old joe is going to be able to appreciate Korean culture is being pretty optimistic. In large part due to the host nation, a lot of these kids (especially in 2ID land) are not going to have positive experiences, and incidents are going to happen.
I wonder how Koreans looked at Hines Ward’s mother before he was super bowl MVP? I see billboards out here with his face on it for Christ’s sake.
That said, aside from running into a few jerks, a friendly person with a bit of patience can get along almost anywhere. “Tom”, if the terrible U.S. soldiers from your old unit didn’t like you, it wasn’t because you’re Korean. You just suck.
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1:31 am on February 26th, 2007 50
I can touch on a few facts -
Koreans are culturally different in many ways (cat calling, public drunkeness) but very similar in many things… politics will dictate what is said and how it is spun in the media.
Reruiting, being made to do it, kicking and screaming the whole way, and thankful to be done I have to say “Recruiters are a bunch of liers”. So is the chain of command out in USAREC, for the majority with no exageration I could only trust about 5 recruiters out of a whole battalion of recruiters.
Many reasons that people stay out on recruiting is because the command has some supressed charge held over their head, so they are stressed, over weight, and pending UCMJ, but if they will sign the 4187 to extend to be a permanent recruiter, one of those problems seems to just disappear, not the weight or stress. Recruiters don’t supress charges, what they do is recruit people in areas that do not release police records and pray that the person does not have a FBI fingerprint record which most check to Cover their “fouth point of contact”. Some recruiters were printing High school diplomas off of their printers in their office. This is not too long ago in 2000. They have students take the ASVAB for other applicants to get them in the service with a passing score. They make sure their is no meantion of Juvinille charges and that includes “sex crimes” so how would anyone in the command know that a sick sexual predator was lurking in their ranks… they wouldnt until Hondae. Their is so much pressure put on recruiters even the best ones cave. I was fortunate that I had figured out my market and was working 14-15 hours a day which eventually paid off, with some prayer. I knew a couple recuiters that would spend their time to educate some students who could not pass the ASVAB so that they could legally enter the service. By the way this was discouraged by the command as was anything that was successful. I seen civilian recruiters taking and giving bribes for contracts in excess of 1000$(which is illegal) I blog for hours about how corrupt the recruiting system is. Many of the good (having values and not compromising) recruiters have rejoined the Army again and left recruiting, also many were put out of the Army for not meeting mission, over weight and finally comming to conflict with the corrupt leadership. If you notice the Army is paying 2,000$ for a referal bonus to any service member that can find someone to join. Someone could stand to make 8,000$ a month is they could meed the numbers I was required too(4 persons)it is obtainable but note that you have to beg borrow and be willing to steal to find 4 a month.
I have had numerous tours in Korea, but it feels like each is a different assignment.
Back to the “off limits” leaders can do what they want because the soldiers causing the trouble are going to continue to break rules already in place. I just would like to summize that every commander should have 1 year out on recuiting. The way they treat their soldiers would reflect their experience there. I am not saying baby them or be to hard, just I feel they would have a better understanding of what is takes to keep someone that the Army has spent close to 30,000 each on(more with marketing) before making their UCMJ and policy decisions. Not saying be harder or softer, just more informed.
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4:03 pm on March 5th, 2007 51
I served in camp casey from 99 to 01.
And I remember there were some fine soldiers in US Army, like my battalion command sergeant major whose work ethic was so imprresively ingrained in my memory until now, no personal time but taking care of the soldiers 24/7,
(sounds somewhat like korean,eh?)
also some patriotic and bright officers pursuing their careers with great ambition.
However, there were some people who I wondered how they even become a part of US Army to serve their nation, and even dispatched to other countries. Once there was this sergeant E-5, in our support platoon who got caught stealing GPS devices and sell them in the black market in TDC. Our poor CO at that time forgave him and didn’t punish him through UCMJ. And later this sergeant got grumpy with his CO for some other issues and informed the Division Inspector General of his wrongdoing. The CO got fired from his job and this E-5 got involuntary discharge. It was a really embarassing moment even to me. Also there was another E-5 who supplied the cracks into the base, and selling to his soldiers. Fortunately he wasn’t caught until I leave camp casey.
So, my conclusion is that there is a wide spectrum in the US Army.
And usually the bottom of this spectrum are easily caught in the eye of Korean, because they are not so common in the so homogenous society like Korea.
I am not denying that the media usually hyperbolize some rare occurence.
Most GIs that I remember were fine young men.
But these rare occurences are so gruesome, like poking umbrella in the woman’s genital or raping a very old lady, they often leave a strong impression that lasts long.
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4:24 pm on March 5th, 2007 52
view from the former Katusa,
That commander should have court martialed that E5 for what he did. It was a good thing that he was relieved of command. Also if you see someone selling crack you should notify someone in the command. A surprise health and welfare inspection could catch this guy.
I hope you keep reading the blog and provide more insightful comments from a Korean perspective.
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2:10 am on January 1st, 2008 53
[...] – February – Hongdae area of Seoul put off limits to American GIs by USFK [...]
3:08 am on April 16th, 2008 54
[...] The Off Limits Game The YTN report complains about drunk foreigners whistling and making comments at to places not called “The Ville”, went to Korean Bars with College Students. [...]
2:24 pm on August 3rd, 2008 55
Tom: “Any reason why the number of Filipino and Russian girls have increased, gradually replacing the Korean girls in those camp towns over these years?”
Yes. They are cheaper.
I don’t know what happened to you to make you so hateful and bitter. I am guessing it is possible you are NOT a former KATUSA and are actually a troll.
My husband works with KATUSAs. We have had some in our home as guests and they talk with us and play with our children. They seek us out and offer to show us the great sites of Korea.
They all say how much they appreciate the US Army and are ashamed of anti-American sentiment in Korea.
Yes, there are some young, dumb, agressive soldiers. I think a lot of this type join the Army because they are already bullies and think the Army will give them a good outlet for that. We all see them. But they are the exception, not the rule.
And if the soldiers were given the opportunity to do something other than drink and pay for the company of a woman, I believe a lot of them would.
MWR, which is fully funded, charges ridiculous “transportation” prices for the trips, which SHOULD be FREE, at least for the soldiers. The fees for family members should be a lot cheaper. If these opportunities were paid for with the funds provided to MWR instead of it being another racket to take money from soldiers, I think soldiers would do things that are more worthwhile. (this would also require the elimination of the curfew).
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2:37 pm on August 3rd, 2008 56
Some quick points for Tom and Richard.
Often it DOES smell bad here. It smells like rotting fish and kimchi and soju. There are places in the US that smell bad too…we lived in Ft. Stewart, GA for 3 years and it smelled really bad there too. Some things are just facts and not insults to the Korean people.
I have never called anyone or heard anyone called Mamasan or Papasan. I hear the terms ajushi and ajuma (sorry if spelled wrong) all of the time, even from the most ignorant of US soldiers who speak such improper English it makes me cringe.
All of the KATUSAs we know express such gratitude for being a KATUSA instead of a ROK Army soldier.
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8:17 pm on August 3rd, 2008 57
The only Koreans in the bars are disfunctional, either they have drug habits or mental problems or need to feed their kid(s) because they are a single mother. Koreans are deep in the pride dept and if MOM knew her daughter was a juciy, she kick the shit out of her. Korea society has come a long way in the past 50 years if you havent noticed. Korea is trying to break in 1st world nation status and could do it if they stopped stepping on their D!@#.
Korean jucies are gone for the most part. Korean girls who want an American will just work on base/post as its more respectable. The only part of Korea that stinks is the Ville or the fish market. Korea is safer than any major US city but its backwards in many ways.
The military should just sponsor trips to Thai as they are in the development stage as Korea was 30 years ago. The ville needs to be leveled as all you get is an empty wallet and headaches.
Military guys want a real Korean g/f. Step one stop acting like a bunch of jackasses all the time. Step two try using manners. Step three try going to a college area or a place where shitbums dont work. Now wasnt that easy…
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7:58 pm on July 1st, 2009 58
I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.
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