By With the approaching long weekend for USFK service members General Bell is drawing attention towards soldier misconduct from past long weekends:
Service member misconduct is on the rise in South Korea, U.S. Forces Korea commander Gen. B.B. Bell stated in a recent message to his troops.
Bell wrote that he is seeing a statistical increase in service member misconduct, particularly involving under age drinking, alcohol abuse, curfew violation and sexual assault.
He called the behavior unacceptable and wants the troops to know about potential lifelong negative consequences they could face.
His message comes in advance of a long weekend; the military community is off work from Feb. 17 to Feb. 20 to celebrate Presidents Day and the Korean Lunar New Year.
You can actually read General Bell’s policy letter by going to the Eighth Army web site and then click on the Bell Sends there or go here to the archived Bell Sends at the USFK web site.
General Bell in his policy letter is stressing what he calls “Under the Oak Tree” counseling. This is nothing new, any leader worth the rank on their collar should be counseling their soldiers to begin with, if they are not they are doing a great disservice to those they lead. Counseling does have an effect on soldier behavior. If soldier has to look their leadership in the eye and sign a in depth counseling statement, this does tend to leave a voice in the back of their head when potential trouble surfaces in the ville. I stress in depth counseling because often I see leaders treat counseling as a CYA document, instead of a tool to influence soldier behavior. It is usually worth working late on Friday to thoroughly counsel everyone you are directly in charge of because it usually saves you from getting a late night phone call later on that weekend due to a soldier issue.
However, counseling alone will not stop soldier misconduct. Like I said before it is something leaders have and should be doing anyway. Bill Clinton used to famously say, “Its the Economy Stupid!” I have been stressing this for years, “Its the Ville Stupid” yet little is done to influence the culture and environment in the ville. Click here and here to read more about my thoughts on ville culture and soldier quality of life.
General Bell overall since taken over has done a great job pushing for USFK transformation and other issues, but in regards to the off post issues, it almost seems like being the USFK commander is like being the UN Secretary General, the longer you stay in that position the more the life is sucked out of you by the environment that surrounds you. General Bell is implementing the same things I seen former USFK commanders implement, off limits areas, curfew, raising drinking age, CPs, etc. and yet nothing fundamentally changes. When is somebody going to try a more comprehensive and bold approach towards the ville culture besides the same policies implemented before that in the long run ultimately only put a band-aid on the problem and never solves it.
You can read more over at Lost Nomad.
1:57 am on February 7th, 2007 1
Stuck on Stupid.TM
2:37 am on February 7th, 2007 2
Well, this is the way I see it. Children need supervision and guidance.
6:38 am on February 7th, 2007 3
GI Korea, what bold change(s) would you recommend?
Personally, I'm a believer in identifying that certain 10% who cause 90% of the trouble and pulling their passes.
I'm assuming you have somewhere around 10-15 years and have been a platoon sergeant, right?
7:24 am on February 7th, 2007 4
Tom, try to surprize us next time. Back to a subject that was near and dear to me a short time ago, the Ville.
Joshua, you didn't ask me, but since when did that stop me from sharing.
There are always problems when two or more gather together. Here is where I see problems
Telling Soldiers they are adults, but treating them as kids, Curfew.
Telling Soldiers they are old enough to kill but too young to drink.
Forcing, yes I said forcing, Soldiers to leave the Ville and go to non-GI areas because they can't get back on post because they have—wait for it—missed curfew.
If the curfew isn't going away, and it isn't, then control the soldiers even futher by placing Officers at the gate to check ID Cards. Not 21 yet, you only leave the base for weekend supervised, by Officers, culture tours. They are kids right?
Every month, or payday weekend, Company training by the Co and 1st Sergeant, time for the Leaders to Lead. Subject: Korean culture and Ville culture. The 17 to almost 21 year olds can have show and tell about last weekends tour and the upcoming tour.
Teach the Soldiers about the traps and baiting that koreans are capable of.
Soldiers are going to get layed and their going to get drunk. Can't stop it! Teach them not to get in trouble doing it. I'm serious! It used to be called a "thunder run".
If you can't do the above then start a new MOS. I don't need to tell ya what the job of these brave Troopers would be. JUST KIDDING———-maby.
7:40 am on February 7th, 2007 5
One more thing. the CO, TOP, SMC, AND TOON LEADERS need to get their asses out to the ville on weekends. No monkey suit—plainclothes—-your soldiers know you. Don't be an ass about it. Just be there and sober so you can get your troops before the MPs do and keep them off the blotter report. I had some success at this. It works. A side gain here is that your troops learn to trust you. Trust doesn't come easy or with rank.
The curfew is an evil thing. There was always more trouble in 2ID land than down south. They don't call it a "no smile zone" for no reason!! When I was above it, I learned why.
12:58 pm on February 7th, 2007 6
Joshua,
I will have to write post identifying all my ideas on what to do in the ville. I bring up ideas in multiple posts on this but I have yet to put all my ideas into one blog posting. I will post something in the coming days about what I think are worthwhile ideas at least worth debating.
Dan,
I tend to think that there was to much leadership pulling CP in the villes. There was actually times there was more CPs in the ville than soldiers. The soldiers would move to downtown areas in Uijongbu for example instead of hanging in the villes because who wants to let off steam at the club with your 1SG watching you? I didn't mind because at least when the soldiers went to downtown Uijongbu that got them away from the juicy girls and the ville culture. But it had the side effect of causing taxi cab related incidents.
2:49 pm on February 7th, 2007 7
Amen. Who the Hell wants to go hang out in an establishment that you are forced to enter a couple times a month in uniform with a goddamn armband?
The officers and NCO's on the CP duty roster led the exodus from the villes. That's why the villes turned into mostly junior enlisted zones requiring so much maintenance.
If you ditch CP and curfew and follow the Korean law of the land on drinking age, leadership will voluntarily return to the ville. Command presence doesn't require a friggin' notebook and armband.
3:37 pm on February 7th, 2007 8
Alcohol boredom 18 yr old raging male hormones=trouble
3:38 pm on February 7th, 2007 9
There should have been plus signs between the words
5:44 pm on February 7th, 2007 10
Richard; Before 9/11 there was no curfew below the "no smile zone". There was still Alcohol bredom 18 yr old raging male hormones.
There was no curfew so there was (all night long) to look at the girls and drink your fill. The girls were Korea, and no one ever heard the words "human trafficing". The price for their company was double digits not triple with the Russian girls. The leadership went downdown in jeans, never heard of a "CP". CP was always a bad idea, just like the curfew.
Make any club that has non-Korean workers off limits! They will find Koreans to work the Bars—trust me.
I had a troop in 03 at the hump that paid $200. for a russian for ONE NIGHT! He couldn't believe that it was $20. when I was his rank.
Get the imported entertainment out of the Ville. Don't support it Gen. Bell.
GI Korea; I agree with you and do understand. I never had a problem with Taxi drivers. I would speak a bit of my "broken korean" and they were impressed. It was very broken and they KNEW I was not Trained, but had just picked it up. I refer you to my above posting about culture classes every month.
I know it would be alot of work and the Leadership likely isn't up to the task, but they COULD BE.
The Koreans learn about us in grade school. We show up every year and don't know crap about them. I don't blam them for feeling insulted.
There are two solutions. One is what I outlined in first post. The second is to keep the soldiers behind the wire.
Education every month for the troops or keep them behind the wire.
Leadership caused this problem with the CP and curfew. Can or more importantly will they fix it. Every one thinks the curfew is the norm, it isn't. Not in America or Germany. Whats different about Korea? Maby, it is our soldiers, who learn about germany when there, but don't learn about korea when there. A two week class upon arrival don't cut muster. Never did.
1:25 am on February 8th, 2007 11
I'm a radical on discipline, always have been, always will be. I have done my share of partying when I was in Korea but things seem to be getting WAY out of control in my old stomping grounds.
Once again, the kids coming to Korea today grew up in a culture that nutured their "me first" and "hooray for me, the hell with you" attitudes. Soldiers in Korea are a mess because the culture at large in the USA is a mess. Teachers having sex with students, metal detectors at the door of a lot of schools, kids grabbing a gun and shooting up their classmates because someone called them a name, these are all signs of a deteriorating culture.
I know that I am what some of you consider to be an old fart by now (I grew up in the 60's and 70's) but to even think of some of the things that go on now in society as a whole would have been outrageous just 20 or 30 years ago.
Now, back to the problem with soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in Korea. I state again, as I have in the past on this blog, that anyone who finds themselves in trouble more than once should find themselves on a plane or ship heading for Iraq or Afghanistan. Make this a prerequisite of signing up for a tour in Korea and you'll see the number of incidents go WAY down. Also, it may have the added benefit of being able to draw down the troop strength in Korea which is WAY overdue given Korea's economic power. We've let them get too comfortable under our blanket of freedom. I would dare say that we'd see a big policy shift towards north Korea if the ROK had to deal with them nose-to-nose without Uncle Sugar at their back.
Having said all this, I know none of it will ever come to pass because radical ideas are always squashed just for being radical these days.
2:13 am on February 8th, 2007 12
Tim, I too grew up in the 60s & 70s. I also agree with most of what you said. Except the threat of war duty. I was there in 04. Had my share of blue falcons and dirt bags. Don't need extras!
7:03 am on February 8th, 2007 13
Don't look now, but 2ID's new policy is that you cannot be over .10 BAC even while off duty.
3:34 pm on February 9th, 2007 14
[...] You won’t believe what the new policy is. Soldiers even while off duty cannot have a blood alcohol content level above .10%. What is behind the rise in alcohol related incidents that would cause such a drastic measure to be implemented? Here is your answer: [...]
4:56 pm on February 9th, 2007 15
Mark, any reason given for this action?
7:33 am on February 10th, 2007 16
Not being a soldier, and not really knowing the ville culture firsthand, one thing I don't hear much from the USFK people is —- where the Korean government fits in?
The ville isn't USFK base turf.
You don't have to be in the service or in the ville to get a sight of one of the big problems – take for example, prostitution and the "foreign sex slaves" thing that was so big in the news a few years ago:
USFK can place clubs off limits. It can even try to bust soldiers who head to those places.
But, until the Korean National Assembly passes some laws that gives USFK MPs the authority to bust down doors in businesses off post, and arrest both Koreans and GIs, and hold trials and punich the offenders….
…or…..until the Korean police get in the habit of busting down the doors and arresting Koreans and GIs and prosecuting both….
most of what USFK can do is ——- whistling in the wind…..
On the broader idea of "ville culture" —- I can see how USFK and leadership could have more influence over changing the culture —-
—-but even there —– if you don't have the Korean authorities playing a major role in that too ———- ville culture will likely remain not too far from what it is.
And what we have, in fact, is the Korean side — encouraging that culture, no?
It is at least that clear on the foreign prostitute issue. USFK has absolutely nothing to do with issuing the visas or control over immigration inspections or when and how frequently the police raid (do they ever raid???)…
USFK also has no authority over liquor and business liscenses.
What USFK does have authority over are the GIs, and what it seems to me we are seeing is them squeezing who they can squeeze even if it isn't likely to work much at all.
I am not saying Korea hold the only key of influence.
I am saying without Korea playing along more actively in setting things straight, they will always remain bent out of shape….
8:30 pm on September 20th, 2009 17
That is amazing. I was at Camp Casey 98-99 the only thing to do on your off time was drink. It seems as if the Army is just trying to give young guys enough rope to hang their Army career.
10:25 pm on September 20th, 2009 18
Let's make a bad situation, worse. It's not enough we have to serve in a country most of us could care less about, but to make things harder on us…? It's no wonder most soldiers prefer not to re-enlist after surving under such leadership. I surved three years at Camp Casey.
10:51 pm on September 20th, 2009 19
It was very sad to come back and visit Korea and see how sleazy the Ville is now. Yes, it always had some degree of sleaze to it but this is way over the line. Obviously, the Korean and US Governments don't want to fix the problem–which is very unfair to the young troops. We can argue day and night that these kids are out of high school and they can drink/vote etc. but there's no good reason to expose them to such an environment.
12:40 am on September 21st, 2009 20
Tim, I also grew up in the 60s / 70s, and agree with you on most counts. Below the "no smile zone" before 9/11 there was no curfew. Therefore, no curfew violations. 50% of the the problems solved. My CO was down range almost as much as I was. In civis and lookin out for his troops. Officers today seem to have forgotten how to be leaders.
I also was in the sand pit in 04. I was with the force protection at taji. The units would send us their "troubled children" for a week of duty. Sadly, these are my last memories of army life. I never saw such a long line of idiots and b/f in my life. This includes their so called leadership.
One company even sent us a soldier that was on Suicide Watch without a weapon. (1st CAV DIV)
When I told the E-7 that the soldier must have a weapon to do duty, he responded by asking if he could give him his weapon back—without a fireing pin. I just smiled and told him the weapon bust function properly. I HAD TO TELL AN E7 IN THE 1ST CAV IN 2004 THAT HIS GUARDS HAD TO HAVE WEAPONS THAT FUNCTION
7:52 am on June 11th, 2010 21
Too bad it's taken such a wrong turn. Some of the best times of my life were spent in Dongduchon from '68-70.