Here is a policy that is long over due:
A new U.S. Forces Korea policy requires commanders to conduct visa fraud counseling before servicemembers marry a foreign citizen.
The March 2 International Marriages in Korea regulation also lays out notification, several levels of counseling and verification procedures that servicemembers must comply with or risk punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
The new regulation “fills a serious USFK command policy and regulatory gap,†USFK commander Gen. B.B. Bell wrote in a letter to servicemembers.
I say this is long over due because from my personal experience I have seen more international marriages between USFK servicemembers and the girls in the clubs fail than I have seen succeed. The reasons for this are diverse. Obviously you have the cultural differences, often immaturity because many marry very young, and something I have often seen when marrying a "juicy girl" is that the girl would go back to the club even after marriage. Some of the former "juicy girls" like the attention they receive at the club and plus that is where their friends are at and thus gravitate back there which causes problems when the husband hears from guys at work that they saw his wife at the club.
Than you can throw in simple visa fraud as well. I have seen girls marry soldiers go back to the states get their visa status and whatever money they could from their husband and then leave the husband and end up back in the club. Then you have in some very rare cases soldiers bringing over spouses to ultimately work in massage parlors back in the states. So there is obviously some serious issues in regards to soldiers marrying foreigners in Korea.Â
Before there was no punitive policy in regards to marrying foreigners. In my prior unit we had a company level policy, but it wasn’t punitive because there was no USFK regulation like there is now. The company level policy in my unit included much of the counseling guide lines in the new USFK policy, but this new policy go even further with some of the documentation needed.Â
Here is a link to the actual policy letter listing the responsibilities of any USFK soldier wanting to marry a foreigner in Korea:
This does put a lot of extra work load on the battalion commander because he/she has to do two separate counselings with the soldier including one with the potential spouse and the soldier. This could be handled at a company level, but bottom line counseling should be done. I tend to think battalion commanders have bigger picture concerns to worry about than who Private Tentpeg wants to marry from the Head Club. Commanders and First Sergeants are best equipped to handle such soldier issues in my opinion.Â
I once had a soldier who wanted to marry a "juicy girl" from one of the clubs and I told him I wanted to meet his fiance’. The only way I could meet her was to go to the club because the bar owner wouldn’t let her leave the club unless the soldier paid for her time. When a girl cannot leave the club on her own free will, that is a pretty good indication the marriage is not going to work. Fortunately I was able to convince this soldier to not get married.
Here is a listing of some of the additional paperwork needed:
The legal briefing is especially important for those with SECRET or TOP SECRET security clearances because if they marry a Russian "juicy girl" for example than they will lose their clearance. I remember one soldier who had a SECRET clearance and had to change his MOS to become a cook which requires no security clearance because he married a Russian "juicy girl". This pretty much ruined his career and would be surprised if he is still in the Army much less still married. There is good reason to take the intelligence threat of "juicy girls" seriously. If you don’t think the "juicy girls" are an intelligence gathering threat than you really need to read this:
An Air Force captain who didn’t tell officials two women asked him for classified information was sentenced Monday to 10 months in prison and dismissal from the service.
But under a pre-trial agreement, Capt. James L. Shank will serve just six months in prison. Shank, 43, married and a father, was a mission planner with the 5th Reconnaissance Squadron, which flies classified reconnaissance missions in northeast Asia.
Basically how I hear it works is that the "juicy girls" can earn extra money if they learn some valuable intelligence information that they can give to their Russian mafia handlers who then sell to the KGB.Â
This paperwork requirements below is actually quite good because this is mostly all paperwork needed anyway for the spouse to receive a US visa. Gathering this paperwork before marriage is a good idea that will make petitioning for a visa later after marriage easier:
I actually know of a sergeant who was separated from his wife in the states, but was still legally married, but no one in the unit knew about it. He later married a local juicy girl just so he could live off post. A simple record check on him would have found this guy out to be a fraud, but unfortunately this went on for about year before he got caught due to his wife in states contacting the command looking for child support payments. I have also seen it happen the other way as well when a soldier married a "juicy girl" and later found out she was married and had two kids back in the Philippines she was sending money back to. Now under this policy record checks have to be done that will help prevent the few fraudulent marriages that happen.Â
What I have always advocated to soldiers wanting to marry a foreigner in Korea is to apply for a fiancee visa. The fiancee visa is actually not that difficult to receive for a potential spouse and much of the paperwork needed in this new policy would allow the soldier to get a fiancee visa. This visa allows the potential spouse to receive a visa to travel to the US for the sole purpose of getting married within a three month period. This visa is good because it gives the soldier a chance to see how the potential spouse reacts to the culture shock of being in the US before getting married. I was able to get a number of soldiers to go this route before deciding to get married. Unit leaders and chaplains as well should get smart on the fiancee visa system and this as well could solve many of the negative consequences of marriage between soldiers and foreigners in Korea.Â
This policy doesn’t stop soldiers from getting married, but it definitely makes the process thorough enough that only soldiers who put a lot of thought and effort into getting married will actually be allowed to get married. Overall, though this is a positive step and hopefully alleviates many of the problems with USFK soldiers marrying foreign nationals in Korea.Â
8:30 am on March 7th, 2007 1
You are right. Fiancee Visa is always best way. Even Korean American like myself, I did the fiancee visa route with my KN wife. It was much easier than going through USFK route.
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8:31 am on March 7th, 2007 2
I hate to be negative, but this will have zero effect. Trying to convince a young guy that he’s making a mistake in the love of his life will just cause him to dig his heels in and be mule headed.
Plus, to be fair is shouldn’t there be a regulation requiring similar steps for marrying a German, French or English bride in Europe?
Or for that matter a US citizen. Heck, the US divorce rate is as bad as the juicy girl rate.
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8:41 am on March 7th, 2007 3
Not to beat the issue to death, but it looks like all folks should be advised against marriage:
“Soldiers’ divorce rates up sharply
“By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
“The number of active-duty soldiers getting divorced has been rising sharply with deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq.
“The trend is severest among officers. Last year, 3,325 Army officers’ marriages ended in divorce — up 78% from 2003,….”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-06-07-soldier-divorces_x.htm
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9:56 am on March 7th, 2007 4
The important thing to remember is that this policy is more than just about divorce rates. Like I mentioned there is plenty of visa & marriage fraud going on as well, not to mention guys not getting their wives visa paperwork straight before PCSing to the states and leaving their families in Korea.
This new policy doesn’t forbid marriage, it just makes it done in a more responsible manner to reduce the things I mentioned.
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9:57 am on March 7th, 2007 5
Amen.
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10:49 am on March 7th, 2007 6
That’s what you get for marrying prostitutes. What you expect?
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11:22 am on March 7th, 2007 7
I met my wife while being statione at Subic Bay from 1987-89. We’ve been married 18 years this May, we did the alien relative route. We met at the base bowling alley, she was visiting a cousing married to a CPO. I left the Navy in Oct 89 with Dear wife following two months later.
My wife’s embassy interview happened the same week as the Dec 89 coup in Manila against Cory Aquino. At the time I was flying to Manila and got stuck up in Seoul and hat the pleasure of eating Salisbury Steak at the Lotte for 3 days.(And I didn’t eat Salisbury Steak again till Jan. 07) What an experience we had to be re-united.
Some of what GI saw happen with juicy girls and soldiers sounds familiar. The bar girls in Olangapo in place of the ‘juicy’ girls. I tried to warn a few friends, who then made bad mistakes. Lust can make one very blind sometimes. The new USFK policy makes sense to me.
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4:08 pm on March 7th, 2007 8
In 2002, or so, somebody at Osan legal department told me that 14% of juicy marriages were together after 1 year and it was single digits after 2 years?
Any truth to this or was it drunk talk?
My own unscientific study indicates it could be true. I know of only only one juicy marriage that is still together… if you call “together” as your wife living at her family home with your kids while you have a job and a girlfriend in another country.
A few others are divorced but living together (with separate lives) because the husband finds her to be cheaper than a full-time babysitter, cook and cleaning lady… and she finds it easier to watch TV or meet boyfriends all day than get a job.
I have seen a few marriages work out when GI Joe met a shop girl or something… but I don’t but much faith in the juicy ho’s.
I might add that it isn’t always the juicy’s fault. A friend of mine lives under a contractor and his Filipina wife. She watches the kids all day and never has enough money to pay the bills. After work, he goes and spends his cash on… wait for it… juicies.
I guess you can give the juicy to the man but you can’t take the man out of the juicy bar.
I know all this, and a lot more, because they fight about it at full volume every time I visit my friend.
J!
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4:49 pm on March 7th, 2007 9
[...] Archives « New Marriage Policy Implemented by USFK [...]
5:01 pm on March 7th, 2007 10
Chickenhead,
From my own personal experience it sounds about right if you just consider juicies. Soldiers who tended to marry a regular Korean national actually tended to last just as much as if they married an American.
You are also right that it isn’t always the juicy that is the problem. The Stars and Stripes tends to have plenty examples of soldiers getting in trouble for not supporting their wives and children.
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5:32 pm on March 7th, 2007 11
[...] you’re a U.S. serviceman preparing to marry a foreign national, you might wanna read this post by GI Korea. Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can [...]
5:49 pm on March 7th, 2007 12
Your first paragraph is irrelevant to the issue. The nationality of a one’s future spouse won’t change the fact that many people will make a mistake when they get married. The issue here is visa fraud, not immaturity or poor taste.
As for the sergeant, the crime was bigamy, not visa fraud, right? The fact his second wife was Korean doesn’t make it any more relevant to the issue.
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6:34 pm on March 7th, 2007 13
When I married my Korean wife, a similar policy was in place….back in 1991 and I remember for most, the process took a lot of time however we were lucky and got permission to walk our packet up the chain
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8:44 pm on March 7th, 2007 14
Bull shit on losing your clearance (even if she’s a ruskie ho). All you have to do is file the required paperwork (intent to marry) and follow other procedures. Those that “lost” their clearances…was probably because they did not follow the prescribed personnel security procedures. In other words, marrying a foreign national is not cause – in and of itself – for “losing” one’s clearance. Think about it…I cannot disclose any more classified info to my American wife that Pvt Tentpeg can to his Inga.
Former SSO.
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9:43 pm on March 7th, 2007 15
Same as “Me” – I got married in 1999 and a brief glimpse at the screenshots you’ve posted look pretty similar to what I had to go through. Emphasis was on visa fraud, not marital longevity.
And wilkie speaks the truth.
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9:53 pm on March 7th, 2007 16
“The nationality of a one’s future spouse won’t change the fact that many people will make a mistake when they get married.”
I side with SomeGuyinKorea on this issue. The provision of a pre-marital counselling service for young soldiers is certainly reasonable, so as to make them think twice before marrying a prostitute.
But please take care not to convey the impression that it is the nationality of the respective female that is problematic.
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10:11 pm on March 7th, 2007 17
Sorry USFK, this policy is not new!
It was in effect at 5th Air Force Bases in Korea, and maybe in Eighth Army as far back as 1960!
I married at Osan in 1961. The rules were almost identical to the recent “reinstituted” policy.
I agree with it. It has, and will make some young folks think long and hard, hopefully. Marriage is hard enough among folks with similar backgrounds.
It wasn’t easy, and I can’t recommend it to everyone.
The Military should not have to be your mother, but mom isn’t here, and some do not have common sense, so they are doing what they believe is necessary. Experience tells me this time they are right.
My beautiful wife is still with me since 1961. I can’t say the same for most others.
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12:17 am on March 8th, 2007 18
As a commander here in Korea, I absolutely agree with the policy. And no, I don’t HAVE to agree because it comes from the boss…I just have to enforce it.
As the AFN commander I don’t even have this issue all that much in my own unit. It was a different story when I was up in 2ID however.
As Mr. Joe points out, this is a cyclical event. We used to do it all the time in the Army, and we’ve come full circle.
No one’s telling you who you can and can’t marry. But we are in an area where the unscrupulous prey on the unwary. Passport fraud and other pitfalls are out there. And yes, everyone knows someone who really is in love with a local…those people will make it paperwork or no. But we have an obligation to protect those we can, or at least make them aware of the dangers.
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2:03 am on March 8th, 2007 19
I have tried to find hard statistics or evidence on how many GI/korean marriages are fraud or end badly and there is none (as in zero, nada, zip).
You will find that it is all anecdotal evidence. As far as any one tracking marriages once they happen it isn’t being done. Even if it’s the commander or the guy from the embassy they are all just talking through their hats.
Here’s my anecdotal evidence, off all the GI/korean marriages I know of only has ended in divorce (and that was after 7 years). Thus, I can state with as much confidence as EUSA that 90% of GI/korean marriages are successful.
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4:17 am on March 8th, 2007 20
My first thoughts upon reading this post was that USFK has gone too far, but after reading the comments I guess I’ve become an old guy and a little out of touch with the situation today. I’ll echo the others when I say that most of the Korean/American marraiges I know of have been successful, but then again my friends that have Korean wives were, like me, a little older when they got married. I’ll qualify that by stating that even though I wasn’t a horny 19 y.o. when I got married, I did get married for all the wrong reasons and got very, very lucky. And my wife is still a hammer. A little maturity goes a long way in determining the success of the marraige – more so than the cultural differences between spouses of different nationalities. A similar policy was in effect when I married over 18 years ago, but not to this degree. Basically the commander had to be informed, he had to sign a memo (disposition form – remember those?), and he could say no, though that was very rare.
And all you youngters out there remember this – it doesn’t matter what race or culture your wife comes from. You’re still gonna get yelled at.
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5:59 am on March 8th, 2007 21
I’m not conveying nationality, I’m conveying juicy girls compared to non-juicy girl marriages. A have personally seen more marriages between a non-juicy girl regular Korean national last longer than a marriage with a juicy girl of any nationality including Korean. Usually the Korean juicy girls are the most dangerous ones to marry because they have no motivation to leave the country, they just want to suck GI bank accounts dry.
As far as security clearance the guy I mentioned got married to a Russian national without telling anyone until he did it. Plus he wanted to reenlist when he was only 4 months from ETSing because he got her pregnant. His security clearance was removed by the battalion commander since he did not notify anyone he was getting married and didn’t go through the proper channels to keep his clearance. The only way he could reenlist was in a non-security clearance field so he figured he would become a cook.
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8:20 am on March 8th, 2007 22
my question is what about the failed marriages between americans back home
its a cultural thing with our society
oh get married!! hey i dont like this that much
ok…get divorced and start over!!!
has nothing to do with soldiers or bar girls
has everything to do with our mentalities toward marriage itself within the United States
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8:43 am on March 8th, 2007 23
mcnut,
By combining the lax attitude towards marriage in America, with young soldiers and juicy girls is doomed to failure probably 90% of the time compared to about the 50% marriage failure rate in the US. However, like I said before marriage rates are not driving this policy; negative publicity USFK gets from visa fraud, soldiers leaving their families in Korea for USFK to look after among other issues I listed are what is rightfully driving it.
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1:20 pm on March 8th, 2007 24
the command needs to do something albeit useless to say
hey we are trying
because one thing you can not do is change the mind of a kid who has just arrived in the middle of a vagina fest maybe got laid a couple of times in high school and now its anytime he wants it
you are either gonna screw up
or not
live and learn
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3:12 pm on March 8th, 2007 25
The AF had this policy when I got married back in 1987, and like then, I think it’s a good idea for the younger troops that are 18, 19, 20 years old and over here for the first time. Back then, each couple also had to attend a mandatory cultural training class which lasted 2 or 3 days.
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4:08 pm on March 8th, 2007 26
also a battlion commander has no authority to take away a security clearance
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5:17 pm on March 9th, 2007 27
I don’t know. I’d like to give our younger soldiers more credit than that. Will it change of the mind of everyone: no, but I wouldn’t agree with any number more definitive than “some”.
I do think that service members will take a second look at the potential pitfalls and that this will help in, again, some cases. Certainly the system we have now isn’t doing such a great job.
Although technically correct that a battalion commander can’t revoke a security clearance, you certainly have to agree that this, like so many other cases, will boil down to the approving authority taking the commander’s word 99% of the time.
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10:55 am on March 29th, 2007 28
TOM: you are way out of line in what you just said.
the biggest problem I have seen is not the marrage. but the lack of support from the command to make sure the soldier has time to get the visa properly proccessed. we have wives left behind not due to anyhting else beyond the chain of command preventing them from having the opportunity to follow through with this. this new policy gives the command one more reason to say no. it also makes the marrage proccess take 10 times longer and if you are like 6mo out you will be lucky to get married let alone visa proccessed. we have a soldier in my unit that when he went to the NCO board. was told by the CSM. “you will not get married and if you do you will never see your wife while in this unit” that is the short and sweet quote of what was said. not all units care about there soldiers. what sort of NCO board would do this. well ours did. what army policy states and what our chains of command do are two different things. Korea is not the assignment of choice for the lower enlisted. at least not in Area 1. this policy only has given the chain of command one more weapon to use against the soldier. the soldier I spoke of above. His fiance is moving back to the philipines in may. she nore himself have the time to do all the proper interviews. so he was going to wait for her to return home then marry her. he was told that they would give him 45 45 if he did that. hes damed if he does and damed in he does not. I understand why the polocy letter was put into place but they should have made a policy letter forcing commands to give and make times for soldiers to proccess the visa. also if they did not then the soldier would inturn get in trouble for there not following a dirrect order. we have a moral issue here in Korea in area 1. this has not helped improve it. it only has given an extra weapon to the command to beat the soldiers in to submission with.
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5:21 pm on March 29th, 2007 29
Like I mentioned before there is no excuse for not being able to get a fiancee visa put together. These are very easy to do and the visa could be in the fiance’s hands from beginning to end in two months. I cannot recommend enough using this visa. Your friend should have did a fiancee if he was so serious about getting married. There is no regulations against a fiancee visa and they are not part of this new marriage policy. No one could have stopped him from getting a fiancee visa and the time needed to do this is minimal. Heck if he didn’t want his command to know about the finacee visa they would never know unless he told them.
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7:28 pm on April 4th, 2007 30
I agree with Nomad, Mr. Joe and others this policy has not changed. When I got married in 1990 we had to go through the BN Cdr, CO, Chaplin and 1SG and get this they can deny it. But that does no good because you can go the civilian route. All n all the command has no say so when it comes to who you marry. Anybody who married a Korean woman prolly knows more about her family than she does. The background check they do on her is a mofo.
Bones
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12:18 am on April 5th, 2007 31
[...] [GI Korea] New Marriage Policy Implemented by USFK Published: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:20:25 +0000 Here is a policy that is long over due: A new U.S. Forces Korea policy requires commanders to conduct visa fraud counseling before servicemembers marry a foreign citizen. The March 2 International Marriages in Korea regulation also lays out notification, several levels of counseling and verification procedures that servicemembers must comply with or risk punishment under the [...] Read More… [...]
2:20 pm on May 4th, 2007 32
Wonderful ideas, but reality looks a little different. I´m a miilitary wife of 17 years. While stationed in Korea my still-husband hooked up with a juicy, used all of our families money “to be with her” until I found out.
I never forced the issue, because I knew if he´d get in trouble my 3 kids and I would be financially hurting as well. BUT the command has records of their soldiers right? How come nobody cared about a married man seeing a juicy, nobody stopped! He told his command he was separated – yet nobody ever requested the legal documents to proof that!
I´m a foreign wife as well – german and up to this day I don´t know if he married to the juicy to or not. I don´t blame the system for my cheating husband and him leaving me with three kids after everything we´ve been trough in our “Army carrier” BUT I do think, the military does have a responsibility towards the families, when they find out that a situation “stinks”!!!
Like nobody checked for any separation papers, I doubt most commands care about the fraud visas, etc. – they just don´t want to get involved.
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3:16 pm on May 4th, 2007 33
Micky,
You are right. Leadership does NOT have it’s priorities straight.
USFK’s policies ensure they actively seek out and punish well-behaved, combat-experienced 20 year-olds when they responsibly drink a beer.
…but…
Apart from meaningless measures designed to make it appear to outsiders that Something Is Being Done, USFK makes no effort to stop well-connected juicy bars from destroying military families by supplying openly human-trafficked prostitutes to lonely GIs who are restricted from more benign GI pastimes such as drinking and fighting.
Unlike the unit cohesion-building style of old-school prostitution where you drank with your buddies, paid for a short-time and went back to drinking with your buddies to brag about it, the juicy system encourages “relationships” to form with the girls… and, night after night, as they “work on her”, even reasonably intelligent men start kidding themselves into believing she is such a great girl… a soul-mate who always says the right thing… and they are just “getting to know her” because she is just a normal girl… and that it is perfectly reasonable to pay $10 for this privilege.
Then, they fall “in love” because she is “different”.
One could write a book on the psychology of juicy interaction.
“How come nobody cared about a married man seeing a juicy, nobody stopped!”
The owners of juicy bars and other “local business leaders” play golf with USFK leadership (some of which have related Korean wives). Nobody cares due to Leadership By Example. Who wants to make a big deal of this on a one or two-year tour?
You showed wise restraint in dealing with your husband and his career. If you really want to do something about this become knowledgeable with the juicy system and USFK’s protection of it. Share that information with all other military wives.
Good luck, Micky.
J!
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6:53 am on May 5th, 2007 34
I have always considered juicy girls to be the equivalent of a drug and some of the guys that try out these juicy girls become addicts. Just like a drug addict a juicy girl addict often loses his family, job, and money over these juicy girls.
In regards to Mickey’s story the new marriage regulation requires commanders to review a soldier’s marrital status as part of the process of getting married to a juicy girl. Hopefully this will prevent more incidents like what happened to Mickey from happening.
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5:39 am on May 7th, 2007 35
Thanks J. for the kind words! I spread the word, believe me, I tell the truth, when I have to explain why my husband left the kids and I. Friends and family always thought we were a happy family, well, so did I! My still husband tho goes around and explains his “actions” with “the military life ruined our marriage” anyhow……..
I hope EVERY commander reviews a soldier´s marrital status. My husband´s commander didn´t even question his leave in the Phillipines, even tho he knew the wife and kids were in Germany. So I doubt he´d check his 1st Sergeants marital status
So again, it seems to me it´s only the young soldier who gets in trouble the higher ranking may do as they please!
I sure hope someone will take this problem serious enough in the future. Since this happened to me I´ve made contact with quite a few ex-wives this happened to. Sad situation, not only for us wives, but for our kids. Being a military child isn´t easy, having divorced parents isn´t either, but to loose your family to a hooker…..
God bless you all!
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9:48 pm on July 15th, 2007 36
I believe this new policy to be either a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. As for me, yes i’ll probably end up marrying my Filipina, or “Juicy Girls” as many of you like to call them. I’m a 29yr old SPC, been here in Korea since May ‘05. I’ve seen relationship wise, good, bad, ugly & all points in between concering particularally these Filipinas. I’ve seen guys come here married, leave married…to someone else. guys come here, meet a girl in da clubs & less than 2 months she’s back home, contract paid off & what not. i’ve seen guys not even make it that far, cause after their g/f or “Asawa” went back 2 PI, it became known that she was already getting married to someone else. As for the “Juicy Girl” problem in da clubs, you have 3 options here in Korea.
#1-You play the game
#2-You get played
-or-
#3-You don’t caught up in all the club drama
my 1st 2 months i got here, i never went 2 da clubs, cause i heard all da negative shit about them. finally one of my friends made me go out. of course, they seemed overly friendly cause of the job, but about 95% of the girls i’ve met, have either not asked for a drink or just asked if i would have a drink 4 myself so they could talk. yes i spent alot of money here. $5000, in my 1st 2 months, but all my bills & military responsibilities were taken care of. until i net my girl in july ‘05. like all guys i bought alot of drinks @ 1st, but after 2 months, she made me stop. she would even send me back home if i came out w/too much money. it wasn’t hard for me to trust her. actually, history has shown, men here are bigger cheaters than woman, regardless of the woman’s occupation. she went home 2 PI in feb ‘06. i told her to get her life back w/her daughter & i got my own stuff to finish up on. looking maybe late 2008 early 2009. no rush. gives us plenty of time to know each other. time for me to see the real her & her family, likewise 2 myself. that’s what i see to be the realll problem here is the couple’s beign impatient in marriage, regardless of age. I know this column will get blasted, but all is entitled to their opinion. to the ladies that have had their lives broken because of these “Juicy Girls”…i apologize. no one deserves that.
ShadowRaven19
“Juicy King”
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12:53 am on July 16th, 2007 37
Good luck, ShadowRaven19…
…at least you put some thought into it all… which is more than most do.
Before making any final, life-altering decisions, keep in mind there are 40 million Filipinas in the Philippines.
Of these, there are some FANTASTIC young women from good families with good educations, pure intentions, good manners, wonderful personalities, no baggage, a great deal of beauty… and an intact hymen…
…and they have little to look forward to except a husband who works 60 hours/week for a few hundred dollars a month while they stay at home for the rest of their lives and crank out a dozen hungry babies…
…meaning that, with the alternative life you have to offer, you are certainly capable of obtaining a wife of a much higher standard than you might find in a more developed country where you are just a normal guy.
Now, the girls which are exported to service American GIs in Korean juicy bars are mostly on the low end of the bell curve in all of the categories I mentioned above… although, this isn’t always apparent to a guy who hasn’t been to the PI and has only the worn-out Ville Skank in a testosterone-rich environment as a benchmark for comparison.
With this in mind, it is easy to see how a lot of guys who marry the Best Girl in the Bar (or First Piece of Little Brown Ass) suffer some major shock, and heartbreaking disappointment on their first trip to the PI.
It starts before they even leave Incheon as they compare the Philippine Air flight attendants to the ratty little troll sitting next to them… and it gets worse after they arrive and see every girl from the airport to their new wife’s family’s circa 1000 B.C. grass hut… and realize their girl (who looked so good in a GI setting) is actually quite physically and mentally unimpressive next to all the normal girls…
…especially when is starts to become apparent that many of these normal girls are very, very available and approachable (or require beating off with a stick in certain places and situations).
And, as a double bonus, EVERYBODY in the Philippines knows when a wife is a former bargirl (and everything that includes)… though, not a big deal if respect for you and your family isn’t important to you.
ShadowRaven19, before making any decisions, take a trip to the PI by yourself. Don’t take sand to the beach, so to speak. Shave, comb your hair, brush your teeth, wear some nice shorts with a belt, a Polo shirt and a million dollar smile. Take a walk through Robinson’s mall and smile sweetly at every pretty girl you see. See what happens.
Then make a decision.
I’m just sayin’.
Good luck.
J!
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2:21 am on July 17th, 2007 38
Excellent advice CH, very true.
I had an e5 in 2003 at the Hump. He married the rattest little thing I had ever seen. (I seen alot) He thought she looked exotic. She started pumping out kids left and right. Nothing wrong with that, but damn, be a married couple for a while. I’ve been to the PI a few times. He could have done so much better. And I’m just talking about in Angeles. But in all fairness, as a race, the Philipina is almost always a sweet person. At least in my experince.
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2:32 pm on November 26th, 2007 39
I don’t know, i see the point in it, but I don’t agree with it. It is not the governments responsiblity or place to tell you who you can and can not marry. If you don’t have enough common sense to see marrying a club girl is a bad idea, then its probably best you learn from the mistake. Law says your an adult at 18 and can get married. You shouldn’t be forced to do any kind of counseling if you don’t want to. Marriage after all is free will.
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2:31 pm on May 13th, 2008 40
I personally think you are all wrong. It is easy to look down your noses at the girls in the clubs and call them whores and whatever. I married a girl from one of the clubs here in Korea. we have been together for 3 years now and she has never tried to go back to the club. Most of the girls dont like the club. If your husband was going out to the club then maybe he was tired of you and your “American Woman” attitude. I was married for 8 years to a wonderful american woman that was never wrong and between her and her mother had all lifes answers. We didnt have kids thank god. So I met my wife in a club and low and behold she was actually a sweet person that didnt have to interject her opinion on everything that ever happened. If I want to go out with the guys for a while I dont have to answer a questionaire and get grilled for a half hour. If you are an american man and never had an asian woman all I can do is laugh at you when I see you arguing at the px or arguing on the phone with your spouse.
I have never been happier in my life. I am not worried about my wife leaving me when we get back to the states. And as far as the whole “they are whores” thing goes. My wife was a virgin when we met and I am her first and only. How many of you opinionated “holier than thou” guys can say the same thing about your american wife? I bet not very many.
I think its just like everything else here in Korea. The army just has to protect us from ourselves on everything. Heres an idea give people the freedom and hold the individual accountable for their actions you remember how the army used to be. Now if the soldier goes out and gets in trouble its not his fault its the supervisors fault because he didnt warn the soldier about punching out plate glass window and stealing a purse or whatever.
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2:44 pm on May 13th, 2008 41
” My wife was a virgin when we met and I am her first and only.”
LOL
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3:27 pm on May 13th, 2008 42
Congrats shattered!
I would like to also state that this new policy is not to protect the service member as much as it is to control them. If they can make it just hard enough and time consuming enough that it is not feasible to go through it then maybe they will just give up on it.
When are they going to implement this army wide. What about the thousands of american/american divorces that happened last year. Why dont we create an office where everyone in the states has to petition for a marriage license and then take 4 months filling out forms and going to commanders meetings and interviews. We should make it retroactive as well. We worry so much about PVT Snuffy getting married that we forget that he is old enough to fight for his country and lose his life and if he wants to make a life decision whether good or bad it is his decision to make. I have seen so much corruption here in Korea and the higher ups know about it and look the other way, if not cover for each other. If you want to do the young soldier a favor and protect them dont send them here straight out of AIT. It ruins them and most just want to get out after what they see here. Yall keep up the good work.
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5:12 pm on May 13th, 2008 43
Sorry Chuck, but after reading chickenheads comments I had to laugh at yours.
“With this in mind, it is easy to see how a lot of guys who marry the Best Girl in the Bar (or First Piece of Little Brown Ass) suffer some major shock, and heartbreaking disappointment on their first trip to the PI.”
MY JUICY WAS A VIRGIN!!! I AM HER FIRST AND ONLY!!
You and your wife must be a lot of fun at dinner parties.
“It starts before they even leave Incheon as they compare the Philippine Air flight attendants to the ratty little troll sitting next to them… and it gets worse after they arrive and see every girl from the airport to their new wife’s family’s circa 1000 B.C. grass hut… and realize their girl (who looked so good in a GI setting) is actually quite physically and mentally unimpressive next to all the normal girls…”
Damn that is funny. NEXT TO ALL THE NORMAL GIRLS… LOL…RATTY LITTLE TROLL.. LOL..
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11:59 am on May 14th, 2008 44
shattered your an idiot. I have been to the PI and was truly unimpressed by 98% of the girls there. I dont know where your synicism comes from but obviously you have absolutely no game so you take a trip down south and just buy your “brown ass”. I am not knocking you or anyone in your family and I cant see why you would come back like that. Is your wife american or something? If so I can only offer my condolences to you. Either way you seem like one of the truly idiotic people here. I could not care less what you or anyone else thinks about me or my wife, because I catch you and people just like you staring at her everytime we walk into the food court or the PX. Im sorry you have a troll but just because you got dooped by your “ratty little troll” doesnt mean we all got dooped. I am perfectly happy with mine and I can guarantee nothing you have ever payed for is as good as what I have waiting for me at home everyday. You really have a pathetic existance and I pity you.
LOL……..I REALLY DONT……..YOUR AN IDIOT
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2:10 pm on May 14th, 2008 45
Charlie Brown,
“your an idiot”, “synicism”, “everytime”, “payed”, “everyday”, “existance”, and of course the Grand Prize winner: “dooped”. These are only from your last rant; I imagine your wife’s English abilities decline measurably each time she hears you open your mouth or reads anything you have written.
By the way, the reason you and your bar ho are stared at by people in the PX is that they are wondering if you knew that you were only the second person who had ever slept with her – the first being the hundreds of starers who had paid $200.00 for their “overnight” with her.
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2:11 pm on May 14th, 2008 46
Charlie Brown I am glad your marriage worked out and I have seen plenty of other marriages with Filipinas work out as well. However, I have personally seen more marriages not work out for a variety of reasons to include soldiers being to hasty to get married. I had a soldier come into my office three weeks from PCSing saying he wants to get married to a girl he met in the club a month prior.
However, this marriage policy was more to eliminate the visa and marriage fraud going on as the commenter Mickey talked about in regards to her case. Many of the requirements of the marriage policy are things that someone filing for visa would need to get ready anyway.
The only thing I don’t agree with on this policy is the battalion commander interview. Battalion commanders have more important things they should be concerned about and this should be something handled by company commanders and first sergeants who have a better understanding of the soldier they are counseling in regards to the marriage. Plus soldiers would probably be more comfortable talking about their marriage ideas to their first sergeant or commander compared to the battalion commander.
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4:18 pm on May 14th, 2008 47
OWCH Chucky.
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11:39 am on June 9th, 2008 48
Although trying to curb the divorce rate was one reason for this policy change it was NOT the MAIN reason for it. This policy was put in effect because of the number of dependants left behind here in Korea when the Soldier PCS’s. I was a Garrison level NEO Coordinator when this policy was being put into effect. At that time there were about 4,000 abandoned dependants here that we knew about and who knows how many that we didn’t know about! The policy is actually geared toward requiring you to do most of the steps required for an immigration visa prior to getting married. Most of the abandoned spouses were left here because the could not qualify for a visa to the U.S., this policy is set up to identify the most common issues before you get married.
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4:42 am on June 10th, 2008 49
[...] opinion. … http://www.hollywoodgrind.com/tag/filipina/ • Found on Google, Windows Live New Marriage Policy Implemented by USFK … Some of the former "juicy girls" like the attention they … probably end up [...]
12:08 pm on July 10th, 2008 50
Smells like Homeland security concerns to me. Let the State Dept do their own dirty work. If I was stationed there I’ll try to transfer to a unit that has a commander and First shirt thats married to a foreigner then start my paperwork. US Army has been stationed and died in Korea since the 50’s and now “Houston we have a problem”
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1:44 pm on August 3rd, 2008 51
Allowing soldiers to marry these prostitutes is a drain on the US taxpayer. It should be outlawed.
I have met a few very sweet and beautiful Filipinas. And they are not bar girls.
The Juicies are trash and should not be allowed on post. I have only met one Russian bar girl and she openly talked to me about her husband and son back in Russia. I only ever saw 2 customers in the bar where she worked and I only ever saw her talking to them and bringing drinks. But no matter what her nationality, prostitutes should not be allowed to marry soldiers. And no marriages between soldiers and foreigners should be allowed while here. If they are really in love and the girl is really worth it, they will go through the proper channels and the girl will pay her way to immigrate to the US and THEN they can get married. Otherwise it is clear she is just looking for a golden ticket.
The wives and children back in the states (or Germany or wherever they are waiting out the non-accompanied tour) are unfairly punished by the policies that don’t prohibit married men from shacking up with these prostitutes. I am lucky my husband a-is faithful and b-finds the Juicies to look like trolls and to be predatory. I am lucky that my husband wanted me here and spent the thousands necessary to bring his wife and kids here instead of just purchasing a whore. Other women are not lucky.
And the unmarried soldiers who fall victim to these whores get both my pity and my disgust because I don’t know how someone can be so gullible.
Anyway, outlaw the marriages to Juices, especially the in-country marriages, and the problem will die out on its own.
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2:38 pm on August 3rd, 2008 52
It will have no effect. These guys are going to marry these girls no matter what and mess up their life. Lots of these girls are working in Korea under a different name. Yes, some are married to another person in their homeland and after marriage go home and milk their GI husband for money to get paperwork to go to the US while getting money from other guys. Don’t be to hard on the young GI’s case. I love to go to Osan food court and see 60 year plus retirees shopping with their daughters. Only thig is, they are not their daughters.
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2:55 pm on August 3rd, 2008 53
It should not be sanctioned by USFK. The men should have to do all the work if they want their whores in the US. American tax dollars (through ACS) should not help these prostitutes get their visas and should not help with the paperwork.
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12:40 am on August 4th, 2008 54
@52 — Villian, Hey…”60 year plus retirees shopping with their daughters.” I are one — and that is my daughter. But — wink — I know what you mean…
@53 — April, whoa girl. You sound like the haoles in Hawaii back in the 1950s when referring to the military marriages to the local girls. Damn them Hawaiian whores!!! YIPES… You have a lot of bitterness going there.
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11:45 am on August 4th, 2008 55
Kalani: “@53 — April, whoa girl. You sound like the haoles in Hawaii back in the 1950s when referring to the military marriages to the local girls. Damn them Hawaiian whores!!! YIPES… You have a lot of bitterness going there.”
Did you even READ my posts? I am NOT talking about local girls. I am talking about imported prostitutes from the Phillipines and Russia. All of the non-American girls in Korea are NOT prostitutes-is that what you are trying to imply?
And I am NOT bitter. I am happily married and my husband is just as disgusted with the Juicy marriages as I am. I AM angry about them. They are a drain on the military here and the US tax payer. Due to the marriage to the whores (literal whores, not the insult), for a while all marriages to foreigners, or at least “third country nationals” should not be allowed to take place while here. The woman should have to pay her own way to the states and do her own paperwork.
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3:46 pm on August 4th, 2008 56
April,
Do you really believe what you’re saying is so damn new? Read some history. After WWII, substitute the “Japanese war brides” and “German warbride” for your “prostitute” hate spiel. After the Korean War, substitute the “Korean war brides” for your “prostitute” crap. After Vietnam, substitute the “Vietnamese war brides” and “Thai brides” and “Filipina Balibago/Subic brdes” for your “prostitute” diatribes.
I’ve lived in Asia most of my life and I’ve listened to your sort of stuff in family housing everywhere. In saying this, I’m saying that there are two types of wives — those that are non-judgmental and those that are. Ask any retired GI who has been married to a foreigner for many years, how many times they have had to grit their teeth to not cause a scene at polite gatherings — and simply left to stop from making a scene.
The tip-off is when the judgmental types start off their statements with “some of my best friends are black/white/green/purple/Korean/Filipina/etc” — and then proceed into the same crap as you.
You cannot seem to understand that your attitude lumps all the women into one big barrel — despite all your protestations to the opposite. A longtime former friend and former co-teacher married a young airman years ago over the protests of her parents. He’s now a Chief getting ready to retire with some outstanding kids. Your statements — despite your supposed caveats — lump her into your crud about “whores.”
Whenever, I used to be exposed to people like you, I would head for the doors to keep from saying something I would regret. Unfortunately, I also had to live next door to many people with the same attitudes as you. It wasn’t comfortable. Given a choice, I moved off-base and allowed those with your attitudes stay in the protected enclaves of the base.
For this reason, this is the LAST comment I will have with you on this. Call me whatever you want, but I have listened to the same type of hate garbage you are spilling in this blog all my life — in the US and overseas.
I do agree that the juicey stuff turns my guts because a lot of young troops are suckered into it, but it’s been around since the first Marines hit Shanghai. The routine is as old as Moses. The difference is in the past, the older troops would try to intervene to knock some sense into the young troops under their care. It may not have been pretty — and downright brutal at times when you rip a man’s heart out and stomp on it — but it was necessary.
I’ve been out for a long time so I can’t say what the troops do now to protect their juniors — but I think there are now so many politically-correct regulations that can come into effect that can ruin a man’s career with a charge of racism/sexism/etc. that most just do there best, but move on.
…And this new policy is not new. It has been instituted, retracted, and reinstituted over and over. It is a good policy — just to give the young pup some time to think things out. There is a great difference between being in love and in lust. The young man away from home finds it easy to fall into the latter. If it is love, it will survive the questioning of superiors — but it also provides a cooling off period — even if it is getting the approval of a battalion commander.
As for paying for the services of passport and paperwork, THAT’S WHAT THE SERVICE IS ABOUT. THE MILITARY TAKES CARE OF ITS OWN.
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10:36 pm on August 6th, 2008 57
Kalani
First, I never said, “Some of my best friends are…” Never said that.
Second, I did not lump all women together. YOU are doing that. Marrying a foreigner and marrying a prostitute ARE NOT the same.
I am not spilling HATE or RACISM. I am speaking common sense.
My “supposed caveats”? Wrong. There are foreign women. There are prostitutes. TWO DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.
YOU are lumping all foreign women together. There is a HUGE difference between a soldier marrying a foreigner and marrying a prostitute.
And A WHORE IS NOT ONE OF OUR OWN. She should do her own immigration.
You call me racist yet YOU are the one who is lumping all women together. The problem isn’t with whether soldiers are marrying a German, Japanese, Korean, WOMAN. I am talking about whores (a literal whore, look it up in the dictionary). Was your “good friend” a prostitute when she married her young airman?
You are lumping my COMMON SENSE with whatever hate speak you have heard in the past. Read what I actually said. Respond to what I actually said. Not to what you have heard other people say.
You must be one of the old guys who frequents the brothels. Otherwise you should have no objection to what I am saying.
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10:44 pm on August 6th, 2008 58
Kalain: “I do agree that the juicey stuff turns my guts because a lot of young troops are suckered into it, but it’s been around since the first Marines hit Shanghai. The routine is as old as Moses. The difference is in the past, the older troops would try to intervene to knock some sense into the young troops under their care. It may not have been pretty — and downright brutal at times when you rip a man’s heart out and stomp on it — but it was necessary. ”
THIS IS WHAT I AM REFERRING TO. ALL I am talking about is the Juicies/prostitutes.
You are taking your anger at what others have said out on me. Everyone is judgemental. The only difference is if you use good judgement or bad. Example: Marrying a nice local girl you met anywhere other than a juicy bar or whore house=Good judgement. Marrying a Juicy or other prostitute=bad judgement.
So, you CANNOT substitute what *I* am saying about prostitutes for what you have heard others say about non-American wives. Feeling this way about soldiers marrying prostitutes is not racist.
Oh, and I live OFF post.
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3:46 am on August 7th, 2008 59
April,
since I am a german wife and was left for a “juicy” I want to assure you, that I was never offended by what you wrote. I was, just like you explained, a local girl dancing at a local bar, when my husband and I met 22 yrs. ago.
If anyone EVER compared me to a juicy, he´d be asking for some serious trouble!!! I never wanted to an american passport, never wanted a green card, fact is, I let it expire, even tho I could have gotten a renewal.
My children and I are in Germany, were we belong and were we always wanted to be, just waiting for the divorce now to once and for all close the “juicy” chapter.
Oh, and guess what…………he´s not with the juicy anymore, she was getting too greedy
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11:51 am on August 7th, 2008 60
Mickey,
I read your previous post and I was actually referring to your situation when I mentioned a wife and kids sitting in Germany.
I don’t understand how someone can misconstrue my comments to be about all foreign wives when I clearly state they are about prostitutes.
I just think that if the marriages were disallowed, the Juicies would go away on their own because the gravy train would be gone.
Maybe the solution is to ban marriages to women in country with “entertainer” visas. That would weed out most of the prostitutes.
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3:52 pm on August 7th, 2008 61
I don´t have an answer, prostitution has been around forever. For years I´ve been wondering now, can you blame the “juicies” for trying?
I blame the men, as long as there is a “market” there´ll be prostitutes. And maybe, if these honorable men, leaders of young soldiers would start thinking with their heads……….there wouldn´t be problem. Who wants to be “loved” for giving someone a better life?
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11:02 am on August 8th, 2008 62
“Maybe the solution is to ban marriages to women in country with “entertainer” visas. That would weed out most of the prostitutes.”
Ban them at ALL countries with U.S. military presence!
These girls come to other countries where ther are large numbers of U.S. Military selling their wares, then start crying rape, etc.???
The hell with them.
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7:11 pm on December 5th, 2008 63
Nice and usefull post, thanks, this is one for my bookmarks!
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