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Avatar of GI KoreaBy on March 24th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

Useful Idiot: Joshua Key

Update: For those coming over from Wikipedia, Key was the first US military member to defect to Canada that served in Iraq, those other two never deployed.  Telling half truths is a common tactic by people on the far left to discredit people. Notice how no where in that Wikipedia entry were the lies I exposed by Key ever disputed.

Make sure to read this updated posting about Joshua Key, especially if you clicked over to this posting from Wikipedia.

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I walked into a book store today and happened to notice a book that was standing prominently on the main book rack with what looked like an American soldier on the cover. I picked up the book and it was titled, The Deserter’s Tale, by Joshua Key. I knew instantly that this book was a hit job of the likes of Jessie Macbeth and Jimmy Massey on our hands. Fortunately the other two were exposed before they could publish books, but this latest pawn of the left has a book out sitting prominently in the front of bookstores spreading probably the same lies and hate of Macbeth and Massey.

I sure the hell wasn’t going to buy what was assuredly leftist propaganda and instead the first thing I did when I got home was begin doing some research into Joshua Key. I can honestly say I was not surprised in the least at what I found out. Here is the background on Joshua Key, he says he enlisted in the Army in 2002 to be able to earn enough money to support his wife and two kids. He enlists as a combat engineer and gets stationed at Ft. Carson, Colorado and then deploys to Iraq in 2003. He served with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment in Ramadi in Anbar province in western Iraq where Key says he regularly saw war crimes committed by US soldiers. Half way through his tour he was allowed to go on leave home for two weeks where he decided to desert the Army and hide in Canada. He became the first US soldier to flee to Canada and seek refugee status (that served in Iraq) since the Vietnam War. With that said let’s start digging into his story.

First place I checked was Amazon’s reader reviews where a few veterans have already poked holes into his story there. This reader sums up the building backlash there quite well:

Very few of the stories contained inside this book sound familiar to me. None of his interactions with other soldiers reminds me of anything I experienced in my time in the infantry in Iraq. There is also no way that this combat engineer saw as much up-close combat in Iraq as he claims. His unit, the 2nd squadron of the 3rd armored cavalry (400-700 soldiers), only had five guys get killed in enemy action the entire time Key was there. This guy is exaggerating, embellishing, or just flat out lying. I would be interested to hear what other Iraq veterans’ think about this book.

Then I found this link where I downloaded an interview with Key on a Canadian radio station. Before listening to the interview, I knew this guy would turn out to be a fraud, but I didn’t suspect him to make it so easy to show he is a fraud. Let’s start from the beginning with this guy. He says that when he enlisted in the Army he was lied to and told that he could not be deployed and would stay at a stateside location by his recruiter. Notice this guy enlisted after 9/11, who the hell enlists in the Army much less after 9/11 thinking they have no chance of being deployed? Either an idiot or liar. He then goes on to say that most soldiers in the military that enlisted were also told they would not have to deploy as well. He says recruiters were telling potential recruits they would not deploy as a way to get them to enlist. He then drops this whopper that 99% of the military enlisted because they were poor and had no other options. Where did he get that stat from? John Kerry?

Key than went on to say that US Army recruiters are going AWOL because they are under so much pressure to meet recruiting goals. I searched the Internet and could not find one case of any recruiters going AWOL. I figured if a recruiter went AWOL the lefty sites would have that story front and center, but I could not find one. It just seems that if someone is going to throw an allegation like this out there, they would back it up with names at the least. So Mr. Key if you end up reading this, what recruiters went AWOL? I would really like to know.

He also makes claims that soldiers are trained to be bigots in basic training. The drill sergeants trained him that all Muslims were terrorists and needed to be killed. Here is what he had to say in an Australian ABC Lateline interview this month:

TONY JONES: You say of the training that you were told that all Muslims were terrorists, that all Muslims were responsible for September 11. Were people actually saying that to you specifically?

JOSHUA KEY: Yes, and then I got it to the term that instead of being, what would you say, not guilty until proven guilty, I would say to us it’s “they’re guilty till they’re proven innocent”, to us all Muslims were terrorists. That’s the way we were taught and it’s the way we conducted our business.

In the radio interview he would also go on to say that soldiers did not receive in cultural or language instruction before deploying and were just trained to dehumanize and kill Iraqis.

That’s funny I must have missed the JAG briefing where we were trained that all Muslims are guilty until proven innocent and all Muslims are terrorists. I was stationed on Ft. Carson the same time as Joshua Key, but not in the same unit. I was a member of the 3BCT, 4th Infantry Division. My unit received training from JAG legal officers just like the 3rd ACR did, but our JAG officers trained us about the laws of war. No where in the laws of war did the JAG officer say all Muslims are terrorists and it is okay to kill them. In fact after that brief the JAG officer had soldiers so scared they were wondering who they could shoot. Additionally, we also received some Arabic training to include how to stop and search possible Iraqis. We were given Arabic language book that we could point to phrases written in Arabic and English to question Iraqis with if we didn’t have a translator. The Iraqis could point to possible answers in the book as I pointed to questions. This book proved invaluable to me in Iraq.

My unit also received Iraqi history and cultural training as well. We were given this book pictured below that covered all aspect of Iraqi culture, customs, and traditions:

Here is the foreword of the book from the Commanding General Raymond Odierno:

No mention from General Odierno to commit war crimes like Key says that he was trained to do. In fact Odierno says:

“…know that civilian military operations are complementary to professionally executed maneuvers to destroy our enemy. Train hard with civil military operations in mind, take lessons learned to heart and learn the information within this handbook…”

So what does this handbook include. Well let’s look at the table of contents:

A very thorough handbook that also proved invaluable to me and my soldiers in Iraq. So how is it that one half of Ft. Carson received such detailed training and handbooks while the other half didn’t? If anyone reading this was a member of the 3rd ACR during this timeframe I would love to hear from you because I’m certain this guy is one again full of crap.

In the Canadian radio interview the reporters ask Key how he felt when he found out he was going to be deployed to Iraq. He said he was patriotic and ready to go fight for his country because of the WMD threat and how he wanted to fight this war now so his children wouldn’t have to later. One of the problems with telling tall tales is keeping all of your tall tales straight. Well let’s look at what Mr. Key had to say in this article via a socialist newsletter that was published in the French LeMonde:

After several months of training I was re-assigned to Fort Carson, Colorado, to the 43rd Company of Combat Engineers. Brandi came to live on the base with the kids. And, in the fall of 2002, the rumours about Baghdad began. Everything was done from the perspective of fighting in the desert, against Iraqi troops. The war games became more intense. Whole regiments were kept on stand-by. Be ready to leave from one day to the next, we were told. And myself, I kept on believing, clinging to their promises. I couldn’t believe they’d lie to me. I wanted to put the question to an officer, but I was made to understand that I should keep quiet if I didn’t want my family to suffer. I was trapped.

That is a big change in his story between the Canadian radio interview and the French LeMonde article, which I find quite interesting.

Here is another whopper he threw out there that I know is absolutely false. He said that while in Kuwait the military was rationing food and water and he hardly had enough to eat and drink. He didn’t say which camp he was on, but I traveled in between Camp New Jersey, Camp Udari, and Camp New York for various reasons before moving into Iraq in 2003 not to long before the 3rd ACR moved into Iraq. On each of those camps I had more food than I knew what to do with. The cooks that fed us were mostly Pakistanis and Indians hired by a private contractor. They did a good job and regularly fed us steak, lobster, hamburgers, ice cream, cakes, pies, etc. We had plenty of food. As far as water you could get a water bottle any time you needed one. I was never denied a water bottle at anytime in Kuwait. Later during the war there was a time we had to ration water in my unit to two large water bottles a day because we had moved forward faster than our logistics could supply us, but eventually the logistics chain caught up and we were soon drinking as much water as we needed again. If he had said water was rationed during the war while in Iraq, I would more readily believe him, but he said in Kuwait water was rationed, which is not true.

Our man Mr. Key’s tall tales only get taller once he gets into Iraq. His unit, the 43 Combat Engineer Company, which as I said earlier was part of the 3rd ACR was assigned to Ramadi. It is here he says he saw regular war crimes committed. Here is a video interview with Key explaining one of the war crimes he saw committed. He claims he saw soldiers kill a group of civilians than behead them and play soccer with the heads and then proceed to run them over with their vehicles. Yes, I know to reasonable people this sounds absolutely ridiculous, however to lefties they believe this is regularly going on and Key is just confirming it to them. I can say not once during my deployment to Iraq did I see anyone commit any war crime much less behead people and play soccer with the heads. If I did see someone commit a war crime I would be obligated to report it to the chain of command. If they didn’t do anything about it, you could just as easily go and report it to the media. What did Key do, nothing. That makes him complicit in the war crime he says he saw. Also I would like to get more specifics from Key. What unit beheaded these people and what were their names? If they committed war crimes wouldn’t you want these people in jail? Curiously in all the different interviews I found on the web with Key making this claim about the beheadings; in none of them does he say who the soldiers were that beheaded these people.

This wasn’t the only war crime he says he saw. He saw plenty more during the many raids he conducted while in Ramadi. Here is an excerpt from his book of one of those war crimes:

Then something happened that haunts my dreams to this day. All the women were led back inside the house and our entire platoon was ordered to stand guard outside it. Four U.S. military men entered the house with the women. They closed the doors. We couldn’t see anything through the windows. I don’t know who the military men were, or what unit they were from, but I can only conclude that they outranked us and were at least at the level of first lieutenant or above. That’s because our own second lieutenant Joyce was there, and his presence did not deter them.

Normally, when we conducted a raid, we were in and out in 30 minutes or less. You never wanted to stay in one place for too long for fear of exposing yourself to mortar attacks.

But our platoon was made to stand guard outside that house for about an hour. The women started shouting and screaming. The men stayed in there with them, behind closed doors. It went on and on and on.

Finally, the men came out and told us to get the hell out of there. It struck me then that we, the American soldiers, were the terrorists. We were terrorizing Iraqis. Intimidating them. Beating them. Destroying their homes. Probably raping them. The ones we didn’t kill had all the reasons in the world to become terrorists themselves.

Once again Key says he saw a war crime and did nothing to stop it or report it. Key has a hard time keeping his tall tales within some level of reason, but the lefties will believe anything he says so his misadventures just keep getting more and more incredible. In the radio interview, he claims that his unit’s raids were conducted from intelligence they received from the CIA. I did a few raids myself in Iraq and for some reason I didn’t have the resources of the CIA at my disposal. Our unit S2 (intelligence officer) did all the intelligence gathering about potential raids, not the CIA. Think about it, why would the CIA be working with the 43rd Combat Engineer Company? The CIA would be providing intelligence to combatant commanding Generals in Iraq, not Private Key in the 43rd Combat Engineer Company.

He goes on in the radio interview about other times they shot civilians and he says they were denied medical care at US military hospitals in Iraq. Not once had I ever seen this happen when I was in Iraq.

He then says that a colonel, which once again he doesn’t specify who, came to his unit and gave a speech and that soldiers were not allowed to ask questions. However, one soldier did ask a question to the Colonel about why they had older style body armor. He says the colonel didn’t answer the question and that later his commander took half this soldiers pay for six months from him for asking the question. Key says this is why he didn’t want to speak up while in Iraq because he feared his commander would take his money that his family needed. However, there is a big problem with Key’s story, a commander cannot take half a soldier’s pay for six months.

Here is the punishment through the Article 15 process that a company commander can hand out to soldiers for violating regulations and order:

  • Restriction to specific limits (normally work, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 14 days
  • Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 14 days
  • Restriction with extra duties for not more than 14 days
  • Correctional Custody for not more than 7 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
  • Forfeiture of 7 days pay
  • Reduction by one grade, if original rank in promotion authority of imposing officer. Not imposable on E-6 or above for USMC, or E-7 or above for other services
  • Confinement on diminished rations for not more than 3 days (USN and USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
  • Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal.

Here is the punishment the battalion commander can hand out under a Article 15 offense:

  • Restriction to specific limits (normally place of duty, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 60 days
  • Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 45 days
  • Restriction with extra duties for not more than 45 days
  • Correctional Custody for not more than 30 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
  • Forfeiture of one half of base pay for two months
  • Reduction by one (NCO below E-6 in USMC or E-7 otherwise) or more (sub-NCO) grades.
  • Confinement on diminished rations for not more than 3 days (USN and USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
  • Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal.

No where in there does it say a soldier can lose half his pay for 6 months. Also soldiers have the right to legal counsel when undergoing an Article 15. A JAG lawyer would have a field day defending a soldier being punished for asking a question of a visiting colonel . This whole claim is total and complete utter nonsense.

Key’s claims of war crimes and atrocities goes on and on with no evidence what so ever of course. I also find it interesting that he admits in this radio interview to stealing money and jewelry from Iraqi homes, which is a crime that he hasn’t been held accountable for. He says because of all these war crimes he saw, he realized the Iraqi terrorists were not terrorists, but in fact freedom fighters. So I guess guys like this according Key are freedom fighters? He also says that American soldiers are the real terrorists in Iraq.

Last November Key lost his appeal for asylum in Canada, but still remains in Canada awaiting to challenge the denial further in Canadian courts. Since Key cannot legally work in Canada due to his status he is dependent on donations from the leftist organizations, which means he is mirroring his story around almost every leftist talking point. The media lets these guys spew their venom without challenging them. In all these radio and video interviews I watched with Key in them; not one of them had somebody on there to challenge Key’s claims. They were all sympathetic to him and were in fact leading him on.

Of course all the leftist Internet sites are Key’s biggest cheerleaders. Unsurprisingly the biggest leftist blog, the Daily Kos loved his book along with every socialist, communist, and even Islamic sites running his story as absolute fact. The reason the anti-war and liberal activists have decided to champion Key is because it is part of their on going campaign to create an image of US soldiers as low life war criminals unworthy of the nation’s respect.

It is tougher to create discontent in the ranks when everyone volunteered to serve, especially now that the left’s argument of soldiers being duped into the military and forced to go to war has been proven wrong. It has been over 5 years since the nation went to war on September 11, 2001, which means all the young soldiers, junior sergeants, and officers that make up the vast majority of the soldiers in the US military enlisted knowing full well they were going to war.

So next these groups tried to create a perception of poor troop morale, which failed, along with their efforts to stop military recruiting by attacking and banning recruiters or going after ROTC programs. Remember all the stories of the military not meeting their recruiting numbers a couple years ago? That was because the military was in the midst of expanding the overall force numbers, which meant more people had to be recruited. Now that the force has completed the expansion it is easier to maintain recruiting numbers which the military has been able to do for well over a year during a time of war. Then the media tried to create an image of US soldiers with higher than normal suicide rates, which once again that was quickly debunked.

Since all these other efforts have failed they have had to implement the strategy to paint soldiers as uneducated low lives that are committing crimes all over Iraq. Let’s not also forget the leftist plants from Amnesty International that enlisted in the military and then suddenly came out against the war before last year’s congressional elections. There group just happened to be backed with a media campaign led by the biggest liberal public relations firm, Fenton Communications. (You need to read my prior postings here and here to understand what I’m talking about.) Remember all this the next time you hear these people say they support the troops.

The US government needs to bring this guy and the rest of his ilk back from Canada try them and uncover all their lies for everyone to see in a courtroom. I have been able to cast serious doubt on Key’s story without even digging very deep, imagine what an investigator looking into Key’s story could uncover. Just like the Massey story no one in the media is even bothering to ask soldiers from the 3rd ACR if Key’s claims are true. How hard would it be to find some soldiers from the 3rd ACR to confirm Key’s claims?

I’m sick of the Masseys, Macbeths, and the Keys out there sliming the military with their lies. I’m not a war criminal and no one I know is a war criminal and those that have committed crimes in Iraq have been tried and jailed. Criminals like Key and his llk sitting in Canada preaching lies about the US military with no evidence to support their claims need to also be tried and sentenced instead of being allowed to serve as leftist propaganda pieces. They may not being doing much damage to the perception of the American military in the US but their lies are being spread abroad with Key’s book being published in Australia, Canada, and six European countries. Key’s lies are tainting all of us who faithfully did our duty in Iraq.

Fortunately with the release this month of his book it appears the US government may finally be taking some action on Key:

A war resisters’ support group says Toronto police officers came looking to question a U.S. army deserter, and it accused police of doing the U.S. military’s “bidding.”

The Toronto-based War Resisters Support Campaign issued a press release yesterday saying that three plainclothes officers visited the home of a Toronto family on March 13 looking for Joshua Key. Mr. Key, 28, is a former combat engineer with the U.S. army who fled to Canada in 2003 after serving in Iraq.

(…)

On the same day that police allegedly visited the Toronto family, the group says an investigative division of the U.S. army also phoned the Canadian Peace Alliance, an umbrella organization associated with the war resisters’ group, looking for Mr. Key.

Let’s hope more can be done to expose Key as the fraud he is.

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Note: Welcome Blackfive, This Ain’t Hell, Ace of Spades, and other readers linking to this posting.  I am glad this posting is getting some attention because as many people as possible should know what a fraud Key is.

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  • usinkorea
    8:54 am on March 25th, 2007 1

    I'll have to come back to finish the entry but wanted to say:

    He claims he saw soldiers kill a group of civilians than behead them and play soccer with the heads and then proceed to run them over with their vehicles.

    That is Stephan Glass material…

    i was in Korea and missed the big Glass, New Republic stink where he had lied in NUMEROUS articles over the period of 1 to 2 years. I didn't hear about it until I happened to catch the movie on TV. It was such a curious story to me given how much I dislike the press…

    …I went looking for his old articles, and some of them were just so unrelenting and over the top, you would have thought questions would have been popping up at TNR regularly or that he would have been exposed so much sooner.

    (Actually, it reminded me of that KMAG piece on USFK that is still up at Kimsoft. It was so fabulous a story from beginning to end, it stretches credibility past the breaking point. In reviewing that article on my site, I found that it had originally been written for Rolling Stone, but they had shit canned it (and eventually the "reporter" went elsewhere too). My respect for Rolling Stone's journalistic integrity shot up greatly after reading that……And it was ironic —- Rolling Stone turns out to be better to journalistic ethics than TNR or the mainstream "news"

  • CPT KIM
    9:51 am on March 25th, 2007 2

    You wrote,

    ….He said that while in Kuwait the military was rationing food and water and he hardly had enough to eat and drink…..each of those camps I had more food than I knew what to do with. The cooks that fed us were mostly Pakistanis and Indians hired by a private contractor. They did a good job and regularly fed us steak, lobster, hamburgers, ice cream, cakes, pies, etc. We had plenty of food…..

    GI, I was LOGCAP contracting Plans Officer with Army Field Service Command in Udairi and all other "state" camps combined from FEB-MAY 2003. As far as I am concern, there were no shortage of food. In fact, I gain weight while I was in Udairi (now Camp Buhrig). In FEB-MAR 2003, it was A-MRE-A with 2 x 1-liter water bottles for each personnel per day. And after APR 2003, no more MRE. (All MRE were collected and shipped north to Iraq.) We only ate A all day long. (A is regular Hot meal.) I never ate that much lobsters and steaks in my life. Ice cream was awesome. It was KDD ice cream. Kuwaiti Danish Dairy company and it was one of the best tasting ice cream I ever tasted. It must be Danish flavored thing. I can understand the tight rationing system when the unit went up north to Iraq prior to base camp build up. But after the Theatre Logistic system was in place and DFAC was built in every major camps, the tight rationing was not need it. My two KD ($6).

  • me
    11:26 am on March 25th, 2007 3

    Yep well I was at Camp PA during this time and we had more water than we knew what to do with and the trucks kept bringing that stuff in.

    Three hots a day at the very hot (at first) mess tent (were the workers smelled so bad) and still if we did not want to eat in the Sauna tent, heck lets to to the PX (after standing in line for a bit) or one of the many boxes of MREs laying around (we had so much one guy build a little house made of MRE boxes) and I practiced making MRE bombs with "spare" MRE

    Plus in the day the common practice was to dump out the water of one bottle, cut it in half then fill it with ice, then take another bottle and make a class of ice water only using half the second water bottle

    This was my deployment

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    6:36 am on March 26th, 2007 4

    CPT KIM and me,

    Thanks for confirming for everyone how we were treated in Kuwait. If anything we were putting on weight in Kuwait from all the food.

    korea student,

    Key’s story I think is just preaching to the choir in the states. All the lefty loons will champion him without questioning all the obvious holes in his story. Reasonable people will read it and see this guy is full of crap. I’m more worried about the perception he is creating overseas where the people have no alternative media to combat these lies.

    usinkorea,

    Key claims he went to Canada because he feared being executed by a firing squad and that the military actually had posters hanging up saying that deserters would be shot. I find this claim funny to because I was on the same post as him and did not see any of these posters. But since he feared a firing squad he went to Canada. What I think happened was that he got recruited by the leftist groups in Canada. He went up there and suddenly had this huge self esteem boost from all these people up there. Since he can’t work up there he is dependent on donations from giving speaking tours. Now he will get more money from his book sales. He has to preach to the choir in order to feed his wife and four kids so that is why everything he says mirrors the liberal talking points.

  • korea student
    3:21 pm on March 25th, 2007 5

    I feel so bad for you guys in the military. Not only do you get terrible press in America, even worse press in Europe, and outright propaganda in the Arab world – but disgraceful ex-comrades stab you in the back like this. Some people in the world just dont believe in truth at all and will say any lies to score political points.

    I cant believe our society tolerates this garbage. I'm sure people in the media know its lies but they dont expose it because it fits their agenda. Sign of the times…

  • usinkorea
    6:36 pm on March 25th, 2007 6

    From the initial report here, thought I stil haven't finished all of GI Korea's post, it sounds to me it is probably money not political points he was after.

    Al Franken who wrote Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot said in describing the reason for writing the book —- that after he came up with the title as a first thing, he took months off from writing more, because he knew it would be an instant hit….

    Writing a book on certain topics and in a certain way instantly sells books. Franken had a political axe to grind. It sounds to me like this guy was just going for the money.

  • Dan
    12:11 am on March 26th, 2007 7

    Just want to add my voice.

    I was in Iraq in 2004-05. I was often hot, except while in the chow hall three times a day, four if I wanted too. I was often thursty and ALWAYS had a bottle of water in my hand or cargo pocket or both.

    I was Force Protecton night shift, had a wall three deep and head high in the "break room". The other wall was of equal size, with plastic water bottles. We got hot and we got dirty, but we NEVER went hungry.

    P.S. Sometimes I miss the chow-halls in Kuwait and Iraq. Much better than the ones in USFK.

  • seoulmilk
    5:40 am on March 26th, 2007 8

    my buddy just got back from iraq. we figured he would have lost weight due to the heat in that region. he actually gained weight!

  • BesottedTom
    12:08 pm on March 26th, 2007 9

    I'd like to hear from Key's squad leader. Makes you wonder if there isn't a small book of negative counseling statements on the guy or any other stories of pathological lying previous to his desertion.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    1:35 pm on March 26th, 2007 10

    I'm willing to bet this guy did have some discipline problems and maybe that explains why the media will not interview anyone from the 3rd ACR to verify his story. It just amazes me that people can publish a story like this with the publisher not collaborating the claims with other people in the unit.

  • More Fifth Column Accounts of War at ROK Drop
    7:11 am on March 27th, 2007 11

    [...] like the publisher and media outlets that are running with Joshua Key’s story of war crimes in Iraq with no proof, the New York Times as well has been caught printing fabricated [...]

  • me
    2:42 pm on March 26th, 2007 12

    I slept on a stretcher supported by a few boxes of Water at each end.

    Also I would love to visit Oh Canada and find this guy

  • Bob Walsh
    6:44 pm on March 27th, 2007 13

    He's actually going to have a hard time getting much sympathy in Canada. For one, they have had troops in real combat in Afghanistan for years, so the public has a pretty good nose for what would sound like bullshit. And Canadians of all stripes support their own troops because Canadians tend not to throw them into capricious fights. And they have a healthy disdain for someone lacking moral fiber.

    The Canadian courts will take a look at how deserters have been treated so far in the US (pretty leniently) and further deny his right to asylum. With presumably few real job skills, he'd also have a tough time applying for landed immigrant status after being turned down for asylum.

    Unlike our immigration system, the Canadians watch you like a hawk to make sure you're not working without a permit. Without a work permit, nobody can employ him. Without employment, it's also tough to get into the provincial healthcare system.

    Other deserters going to Canada have been very careful about what they've said in public. Another guy from Bragg went up after a year in Afghanistan, and went because his (it looked righteous) app for CO status kept being refused. But he did not go out of his way to smear the Army to make his case stronger.

  • ChickenHead
    4:23 am on March 28th, 2007 14

    It is pretty amazing.

    The press will repeat this sensationalistic nonsense yet ignore real problems in the military which, if exposed and corrected, would do a LOT of good.

    J!

  • Justin
    10:16 am on March 28th, 2007 15

    I can't say I'm terribly impressed by your critique, seeing as how you couldn't even be bothered to read the book you're criticizing. I have no idea how much of what Key claims–if any of it–is true. I found a lot of the allegations to be pretty incredible, and a Google search on his name led me here, where I hoped to find some real information. Instead, I see a bunch of name calling (Lefty this, lefty that… Name calling on both the left and the right is just absurdly childish, stick to the facts!) and a shortage of substance since, again, you didn't read his book. If you had, you'd realize some of your points–like his alleged refusal to name names or list units involved in these alleged atrocities–are false.

    If you want to disprove his claims, read his book. Right now, you're pretty ignorant when it comes to his story. You're merely preaching to the choir who, like you, made up their minds before bothering to get all the pertinent info.

    I'm afraid any reply, if any, I get to this comment will be limited to calling me a liberal, commie, etc. and so on. For that reason, I will say I am none of those things, and am in fact registered Republican.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    10:50 am on March 28th, 2007 16

    Justin,

    Maybe you need to read the post a little closer. I'm clearly critiquing his own words from the radio and video interviews plus book excerpts he did. From this I have been able to cast major doubt backed by facts supported by my commenters on Key's claims.

    Imagine the holes I could poke in his claims if I actually read the book however I don't want to buy it and my local library doesn't have it. Maybe if the local library has his book maybe I'll waste my time reading it.

    As far as name calling what is wrong with "lefty". I call this lefty propaganda because that is what it is. What else am I supposed to call it? Would you prefer liberal propanganda? I have re-read through all the comments and I see no inappropriate name calling at all. If you want to see name calling go to the Daily Kos or Huffington Post.

    Also spare me I'm a registered Republican crap which has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You are not the first person to pop up on this blog and use that line. Was there a memorandum passed around to liberal blogs to have commenters use that line or something?

  • Mrs. C
    1:16 am on March 29th, 2007 17

    I didn't need to read past the first paragraph to realize how absolutely and amazingly narrow minded and ill informed you are. Your source being a review on Amazon, was almost enough, then your critique of the interview shows off more of your pure ignorance.

    The original 2 targets of this attack goes quickly to everyone who's taken a step to the left.

    REGISTERED REPULICAN!

  • angus
    8:52 am on March 29th, 2007 18

    GI,

    Gotta agree with Justin on this one. There's no substitute for going to the primary source -his book- and while the book reviews and radio interviews are well and fine, the real material will be in his own, printed words. Buy the book, read it and then shred the living hell outta him. It sounds like he's making it easy and you can always use the book as a door stop or to train a puppy later on.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    10:09 am on March 29th, 2007 19

    I don't know why people are saying my "source" is an Amazon review? My source is the radio interviews and video interviews along with book excerpts where he clearly in his own words makes outrageous claims that I counter. Click on the links and listen and watch what he says. Like most people I never even heard of this guy until I saw his book featured prominently in the front of the local bookstore. A quick background check based on his own testimony and book excerpts has clearly poked holes in his story.

    Why doesn't he provide unit and names of the war criminals he says he saw? If he did that I would track these people down myself and ask them if it is true, which suspiciously no one in the media just like the Massey case is willing to do.

    I'm not going to buy his book and finance this crap. Like I mentioned before if my local library gets a copy maybe I will waste my time reading it.

  • Wiping out a Village - Page 2 - Military Photos
    3:58 pm on March 31st, 2007 20

    [...] Originally Posted by rob_e_bee That guy’s a train wreck. He even makes Micah Wright look (relatively) good. Look of also this : http://rokdrop.com/2007/03/24/useful-idiot-joshua-key/ [...]

  • Gunny G
    5:37 pm on April 5th, 2007 21

    Typical crybaby for the left. He's a useful idiot dancing on the strings of the Islamofascists. The Dhimmicrat Party hacks are the REAL enemy of America.

  • Joshua
    3:05 am on April 9th, 2007 22

    Initial clarification — this is the Joshua from OneFreeKorea, not that lying maggot Key.

    When I got to the part about losing half his pay for six months, I just quit reading. I'd seen enough. I said to myself, GI Korea doesn't need a JAG's help to destroy that guy's credibility. You state the punishments under Article 15 correctly, of course. There's just no way it went down like this. As you say, it would have taken a court-martial to do what Key suggests, and no defense attorney, no panel, and no judge would have let that one get by. It is possible that a JAG attorney would have advised the soldier plead to another charge on which he'd have been convicted, but then Key misstates the reason for the punishment. And in which case, there would be a written record of the proceedings that some journalist could have found by now.

    People are running with this story without checking obvious inconsistencies. One reason our media are completely blowing their coverage of this war is that they don't know the first thing about the Army. Almost none of them have even served.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    10:29 am on April 9th, 2007 23

    I figured you would enjoy reading that claim by our man Mr. Key. I know many a JAG lawyer that would love to defend a guy getting hemmed up for asking a question of a visiting colonel. To think this crap continues to get by our media without being challenged is incredible. Heck it even gets made into the book; I wonder when a Joshua Key made for TV movie is coming out next.

  • Elizabeth
    7:43 am on April 10th, 2007 24

    I once watched a report on Andersoon Cooper 360 sometime ago wherein they reported on the tactics of recruiters in convincing potential recruits. After going to some recruiting centers with a hidden camera on hand, there were actually recruiters who said the possibility of being deployed to a war zone was close to zero. Of course, only a fool would fall for this but the fact there is that there are recruiters who tell lies just to convince young kids to enlist.

  • Fact or Fiction: Deserting from Combat Stress at ROK Drop
    7:12 am on April 12th, 2007 25

    [...] of multiple tours to Iraq and Afghanistan, not that it matters to the New York Times. I do know one deserter that I wish the Army would hurry up and prosecute though, if that is okay with the NY [...]

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    11:29 pm on April 11th, 2007 26

    It would also depend on the context of the question. For example if the soldier wanted to enlist as a PATRIOT missile crewmen than there would be little chance of going to a war zone because there are no PATRIOT missiles in Iraq because they are not needed. There are other military jobs that are just as unlikely to deploy to a war zone as well. I did not see the segment but I can see how the reporters could setup a recruiter to make a quote like that to put on TV.

  • StoryUpgrade-v2.0alpha
    1:17 am on June 7th, 2007 27

    [...] Useful Idiot: Joshua Key It has been over 5 years since the nation went to war on September 11, 2001, which means all the young soldiers, junior sergeants, and officers that make up the vast majority of the soldiers in the US military enlisted knowing full well they were going to war. So next these groups tried to create a perception of poor troop morale, which failed, along with their efforts to stop military recruiting by attacking and banning recruiters or going after ROTC programs . Remember all the stories of the military not meeting their recruiting numbers a couple years ago? [...]

  • Did Rush Limbaugh Call Veterans “Phony Soldiers”? at Forward Deployed
    8:33 am on October 3rd, 2007 28

    [...] have long profiled phony soldiers, lying AWOL soldiers, leftist plants, and the Amnesty International plants Jonathan Hutto and Linsay Burnett on this [...]

  • Gunnar
    12:41 am on October 10th, 2007 29

    why do angry americans seem to have such problems with spelling? Don't you know the difference between "than" and "then"?

    And most of all – how the hell is it possible still to support the operation in Iraq? You're like those kids that Hitler threw out in his last desperate effort to regain power in those last days of the second world war. They kept on believing their pigheaded leader until the bitter end, contrary to all facts and common sense. Sad.

  • GI Korea
    2:37 am on October 10th, 2007 30

    Well gunnar present your "facts and common sense" that proves Key's story is true. As usual if you can't debate the claims than obscure them with things that are irrelevant to the debate at hand.

    Seriously the Nazi analogies are so 2006 you need to come up with something new.

  • willis
    5:59 am on October 11th, 2007 31

    Having spent my fair amount of time in the army and having received an honorable discharge, and knowing about the army's chronically sick, lousy, politicized "chain of command" and it's historically poor decision making skills, I would not put anything past the army at this point. The first instict of the army has always been to "cover up" problems or incidents. I have heard these reports from many other sources and, as such, must believe them to be true. People who know me would considered me a proud Libertarian, never a leftist.

  • GI Korea
    7:36 am on October 11th, 2007 32

    I continue to hear nothing of relevance to the issue at hand. Can someone please offer facts and examples that prove Key's claims? I'm still waiting.

    Also if the first instinct of the army is to cover things up than how do you explain Abu Graib?

  • willis
    7:21 pm on October 11th, 2007 33

    Abu Graib? There was undeniable photogaphic documentation that the army couldn't lie about…same as My Lai (spelling?). One year later, though. Once pictures get in the public domain like that it's very hard to spin it. Our friends at Abu Graib were creating new insurgents on a huge scale, daily (and for nothing useful). (oh, and also think about the way they "captured" these men in front of their familiy and friends…constructive policy, right…when you're confused and don't know what else to do…but you've got to do "something"). And look how many took the fall for Abu Graib and how many were protected. Also, check with Pat Tillman, too. You're lazy, we aren't going to provide evidence for you, there's plenty of it specifically spelled out in any local library. I've read most of it, good (not much), and the bad. It comes from qualified researchers who seem ashamed of all the massive f-ups and from testimony from returning troops alike.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    11:34 pm on October 11th, 2007 34

    I figured you would fall for the mythological version of Abu Graib created by the media instead of what really happened. Let me briefly explain what really happened.

    January 13, 2004 SPC Joseph Darby contacts CID to expose the abuse going on in SSG Frederick's wing of Abu Graib.

    The next day SSG Frederick is questioned by CID. This is when Frederick is questioned by CID and starts writing his journal after being questioned.

    January 16, 2004 LTG Sanchez order criminal probe into Abu Graib.

    January 19, 2004 MG Taguba launches separate investigation into US prison procedures in all of Iraq.

    January 26, 2004 CENTCOM announces details of the investigation to the media including the fact pictures were taken of the abuse. It is reported on CNN:
    http://us.cnn.com/2004/US/01/26/sprj.nirq.abuse/

    Some cover up the Army is launching here. A soldier turns in the abusers and the Army investigates it and releases details to the media.

    The only reason 60 Minutes got the photos from Abu Graib was because Frederick's Uncle a retired MSG was blackmailing the Army that if they didn't cover up what happened at Abu Graib and let his nephew go he would release the photos that his nephew sent him to the media.

    The Army decide to keep investigating and not cover up Abu Graib so the pictures were passed to 60 Minutes and CBS ran them on April 28. Mary Mapes and Dan Rather knew they couldn't just show photos they had to spin it as a cover up and that they broke the story when in fact the media knew about the story all the way back in January from the Army. They had a Peabody Award to think about. Just showing photos doesn't give you a Peabody and thus the myth of Abu Graib began.

    I'm currently writing a massive posting on Abu Graib that should be ready next week that shatters all the myths I keep hearing over and over again about Abu Graib from people repeating leftist propaganda and media lies.

    I also find it interesting that you will not provide any evidence of Key's claims while I just shot down your entire Abu Graib argument. So I am still waiting for someone to provide evidence that supports Key's claims. I think I will be waiting quite a long time.

  • "Why I Fled George Bush's War"
    12:42 pm on October 23rd, 2007 35

    [...] Now, Friday, KB is entitled to be a skeptic… a quick google found this:http://rokdrop.com/2007/03/24/useful-idiot-joshua-key/so grain of salt and all that [...]

  • ah
    4:32 pm on October 23rd, 2007 36

    Why this focus on water and food in camps, crime against the civilians in Iraq is the important thing in Keys book. There is more than one report on that from different sources like journalists, veterans and civilians in Iraq. Don’t hide from it because those crimes will create new terrorists and that will hurt all!

  • Maryellen
    5:59 am on November 15th, 2007 37

    I read the book.. it took me a matter of hours..

    horrible tales.. I too wondered this mans credability.. i jumped on line tonight to hunt down some information regarding this man and found this page.. I read everything on this page, Wow.. you can tell those of you who are keeping track of things and those of you who ummmm.. are not.

    Thank you much.. GIK for the leg work, and for practicing the First amendment!

    Glad to know others out there are being hands on when it comes to investigating and asking questions regarding all claims. Our constitution is fantastic, lets all do our best to keep an eye on it, protect it… so we can continue to share our feelings with one another with out worry.

    Question everthing! READ!!!! Vote!

  • Clipmarks | Mobile
    4:12 pm on November 16th, 2007 38

    [...] Clips Useful Idiot: Joshua Keyclipped by: BitDrifter clipped from rokdrop.comOnce again Key says he saw a war crime and did nothing to stop it or report it. Key has a hard time [...]

  • The New Narrative, Troops are Murderers at Forward Deployed
    8:53 am on January 14th, 2008 39

    [...] and releasing all these killers on American society.  The left has long tried to label soldiers as war criminals and murderers and this report is just a way to legitimize these [...]

  • Gunnar
    9:24 pm on February 3rd, 2008 40

    The truth is slowly revealing. If you say nazi analogies are "so 2006", I'd have to say that Guantanamo is "so 1945". History will tell us about the concentration camp of our time. It's done in your name. Don't you ever forget that.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/arti

  • [GI Korea] Useful Idiot: Joshua Key - USFK Forums
    4:03 pm on February 10th, 2008 41

    [...] [GI Korea] Useful Idiot: Joshua Key Published: Sat, 24 Mar 2007 10:13:03 +0000 I walked into a book store today and happened to notice a book that was standing prominently on the main book rack with what looked like an American soldier on the cover. I picked up the book and it was titled, The Deserter’s Tale, by Joshua Key. I knew instantly that this book [...] Read More… [...]

  • CAgurl
    5:02 am on February 28th, 2008 42

    Wow, you question why the media can buy into Key's story without 'exposing' him? How about looking at the media's acceptance of the Weapons of Mass Distruction rationale for the invasion of Iraq? Obviously information in the media cannot be trusted and anyone who believes it can be is naive.

    Nonetheless, whether Key's story is accurate or not is irrelevent. This is an immoral war, and American soldiers should have the right to resist fighting if they so choose. As a Canadian, I welcome them into this country for a chance to escape stifling American patriotism and a culture of violence. Key's book serves to bring attention to this issue and shed light on the issues faced by soldiers.

    GI-No one is offering facts to support Key's claims becuse that is impossible without participating in interviews with his fellow soldiers. I suggest you revise your 'research' techniques to actually include research, rather than speculation and assumptions. Read the literature (supporting both sides) with an open mind and gain some perspective. You might be surprised.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    9:52 am on February 28th, 2008 43

    I have factually shown Keys steady progression of lies. If you are going to accuse someone of war crimes prove it. Key has already implicated himself as a criminal by stealing jewelery from Iraqis. This is a guy people want in Canada?

    I have now read Key's book because I saw at a used bookstore for $1 and picked it up. He is even easier to debunk by reading the book then listening to his radio and TV interviews.

    I will eventually do another follow up posting on Key when I get the time based on the crap I read in his book. You leftist out there would be better served by finding another leftist war hero then Key.

  • Mike
    6:21 pm on March 24th, 2008 44

    "god safe America" and the American imperialism…

  • More US AWOLs BS - They Want Asymlum in Canada - Page 2 - SpaceBattles.com
    2:41 am on April 5th, 2008 45

    [...] last year. Hehehe don’t hold up much faith with the Canadian Court dealing with the issue? Amusing at the very least… __________________ Spacebattles only Venomoconservative. You seek power and you know you have [...]

  • Joshua Key - Dogpile Web Search
    8:18 pm on April 15th, 2008 46

    [...] http://www.straight.com/article-69957/profile-joshua-key? [Found on Windows Live, Yahoo! Search] 12. Useful Idiot: Joshua Key I walked into a book store today and happened to notice a book that was standing prominently on [...]

  • lies.com » Noah Does the Math on Hillary’s Chances
    1:47 am on May 24th, 2008 47

    [...] http://rokdrop.com/2007/03/24/useful-idiot-joshua-key/ [...]

  • Buster Hymen
    7:10 pm on May 29th, 2008 48

    This kid is bitch and should be brought back to the states and shot!

  • forsoothsayer
    1:52 pm on July 6th, 2008 49

    apparently the appeals courts have decided that even if no war crimes were committed, military misconduct might be enough of a ground: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7491060.stm

    now, i have seen several hearings of the immigration and refugee board take place and they are NOT a sympathetic bunch, or gullible. they will review these applications very stringently.

    now, are you actually denying that civilians were ever intentionally harmed? you'd want to read the arab media. if they have an agenda, don't you?

  • GI Korea
    1:14 am on July 7th, 2008 50

    Where did I deny civilians were intentionally harmed in Iraq? There were civilians intentionally harmed by US soldiers in Iraq in very isolated incidents and the violators are sitting in prisons right now. Other cases such as Haditha have already been proven to fraudualent media created cases.

    Once again this is all another attempt to obscure the issue at hand. What proof does anyone have that supports Key's claims? If you are going to accuse someone of war crimes then prove it. I'm still waiting and I suspect I will be waiting a long time since Key's story isn't true.

  • Stefan
    9:00 am on July 7th, 2008 51

    """isolated incidents"""

    hoho

    http://brokenlives.info/

  • Stefan
    9:02 am on July 7th, 2008 52

    “”"isolated incidents”"”

    read his book:

    http://www.whydoyoukillzaid.com/en/the-book.html

    if even half of it is reality, it is too much already…

  • Stefan
    9:09 am on July 7th, 2008 53

    “”Editor’s Note: Testimony at Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan shed light on the chaotic violence American soldiers and Iraqi civilians face on a daily basis. Today, our coverage focuses on the rules of engagement: guidelines that are supposed to manage the use of deadly force in what is an inherently unmanageable situation. I interviewed former National Guard medic Jason Hurd, and Maya Schenwar wrote a report about the breakdown of the “rules” of war. We have also included the complete testimony of seven of the Winter Soldier testifiers. Their testimony includes graphic descriptions and pictures of dead Iraqi civilians and some include strong language. mr/TO”"

    listen to the soldiers who have been to Irak on truthout:
    http://www.truthout.org/

  • forsoothsayer
    10:22 am on July 7th, 2008 54

    http://cas-ncr-nter03.cas-satj.gc.ca/rss/IMM-5923
    here is the text of the decision, if you're interested. the evidence is alluded to there, but obviously not as much as it would be in the transcript of the hearing itself. believe me, if they found him credible then there must have been a lot. and what about the red cross's 2003 report on iraq?

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    10:45 am on July 7th, 2008 55

    I can't believe you are quoting Jason Hurd from the Winter Soldier event. Read what he had to say:

    Jason Hurd testified that the ROE ALMOST forced him to shoot a woman carrying home groceries – he broke into tears and slung snot all over the panel because he ALMOST shot a woman. I guess the fact that escaped him was that the ROE worked – he didn’t have to shoot her.

    Hurd also tearfully testified that his unit, when fired upon from a building turned a 50-cal on the building and unleashed 200 rounds on the masonry structure. The firing stopped and the unit continued their mission. Hurd went into great detail explaining the size of the rounds and the brass (by the way, Jason, a fifty-cal is a half-inch in diameter, you missed that) and how much ammo is in the metal container – but I fail to see how that reflects on the Bush administration or that Pentagon entity he was trying to blame. Hurd admitted that he doesn’t know how many people were in the building, that he knows of no casualties resulting from that action – so one is left to wonder what was his point?

    The point of the whole testimony, for the entire day I spent there was that the war is illegal from the get-go. They offered no evidence that the war is illegal – but when there’s room full of aged bobbleheads nodding on cue – who needs evidence? All of these terrible things that happened could have been avoided if George W, Bush and the evil neo-cons hadn’t invaded Iraq in the first place. No one had stories of torture or atrocities – they only described the horror of being in war. You could only accept these things as atrocities if you accepted at the beginning that war is illegal. Without that admission, you were left to wonder what everyone was talking about.

    That was one of the problems – I was probably one of the youngest people in the room and I’m nearly 53 years old. The audience were a bunch of old hippies who’d never served in the military and had never seen a war outside of the context of the politics of war. They tch-tched their way through the hearings without understanding the pains the military had to suffer to avoid real atrocities. Their only solution to the war was ending it – today with no real thought of the consequences. The only victory they sought was a victory of Democrats over Republicans regardless of what the nation would be forced to deal with when their solution was enacted.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    11:02 am on July 7th, 2008 56

    Here is more on the fraud Jason Hurd who will not sign a sworn statement making him legal accountable for his testimony. You need to find a better leftist war hero then Jason Hurd or Joshua Key.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    11:49 am on July 7th, 2008 57

    forsoothsayer thanks for the link to the report. The report validates what I have been saying, Key is a liar. No where in the report did the court validate any war crimes and neither did Key mention anything about seeing heads chopped off and soldiers playing soccer with them.

    The only thing the court validated was that there was evidence that soldiers conducted raids on Iraqi homes and roughed up people, and destroyed property, etc.

    Excerpt from the report:

    It is clear from the above passages that officially condoned military misconduct falling well

    short of a war crime may support a claim to refugee protection. Indeed, the authorities indicate that

    military action which systematically degrades, abuses or humiliates either combatants or noncombatants

    is capable of supporting a refugee claim where that is the proven reason for refusing to

    serve.

    The court felt that raids on homes in Iraq were not conducted humanely enough. I would like to see these judges and Red Cross officials raid the houses for us and show us how it is done. I have always found it amazing the Monday Morning Quarterbacking from people with no military experience or experience serving in Iraq.

    Putting the snark aside the important thing to remember is that in 2003 many US units had little to no training in housing clearing operations. Plus the military had little to no training in analyzing intel to determine which houses to raid. There were homes improperly targeted and I can specifically remember from my time in Iraq a Kurdish home that was raided because an informant claimed the family were insurgents but the fact was that the Sunni majority in the neighborhood didn't like the Kurdish family and thus passed on bad intel to the US to raid his home. People with axes to grind with neighbors we would end finding out like to do this. Our intel guys got much better at analyzing information as time went on.

    Bad raids happened but as the Canadian court ruling shows it was not a war crime. Here is more from the Canadian court ruling that bases their decision off the Red Cross report:

    In my view, the home invasions in which Mr. Key participated,

    despite a disturbing level of brutality, did not reach to the level of a

    war crime. The invasions, in my opinion, do not reflect the heinous

    conduct anticipated by the definition of war crimes which according

    to the Rome Statute includes such misdeeds as murder, deportation to

    slave labour and taking civilian hostages. I am enured to this view

    given the recommendations or lack of same made by the ICRC in the

    aforementioned report with respect to home invasions. There was no

    suggestion that the invasions should be stopped, be less frequent or

    more targeted or that there be prosecutions of the transgressors;

    rather, it was recommended that the individuals involved receive

    adequate training enabling them to operate in a proper manner

    without resorting to brutality or using excessive force. The ICRC

    also reminded the military of its obligations to notify families of all

    prisoners of war or those arrested by the military of their place of

    detention. I would have expected a much stronger set of

    recommendations from the ICRC had it considered the military

    action to be war crimes.

    Once again where are the war crimes? The Red Cross report and the Canadian court have clearly said there wasn't any.

  • U.S. deserter wins appeal : Current Events - Page 3 - CKA Forums
    1:30 pm on July 8th, 2008 58

    [...] of Joshua Keys’ story? I only found one blog on a quick google search that I thought was any good.http://rokdrop.com/2007/03/24/useful-idiot-joshua-key/ I am [...]

  • forsoothsayer
    12:23 pm on July 8th, 2008 59

    i guess whatever he said on the radio, he really narrowed it down during his hearing. i'm sure he exaggerated a lot prior to that tho. the football thing seems outrageous. but like one of the commentators pointed out, it's almost impossible to find out if war crimes have been committed because usually the only evidence available is from other soldiers, who have ample reason to lie. the only other source of evidence could come from impartial observers/media – which in iraq isn't easy – and the reports of Iraqis themselves. These are typically not available to most Americans because they don't show sad shit on American tv. but if u read the arab newspapers and tv it's some horrifying shit, even taken with a massive grain of salt.

  • Jax
    5:21 am on July 16th, 2008 60

    1 down, 199 to go:

    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N1531224

    Can't wait for Key's date in court.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    11:26 am on July 16th, 2008 61

    Jax great news, hopefully Key will be next in line to be sent back to the US.

  • CAgurl
    4:27 am on September 16th, 2008 62

    Actually, the Federal Court has agreed to rehear key's case, which suggest that they realize they made a mistake in his first ruling. This is a good sign for all resisters as they are likely to have their cases reviewed as well.

    Also, it should be noted that 64% of Canadians agree that resisters should be allow to stay in Canada. Further, in June the Canadian parliment voted in favour of a non-binding motion to let resisters stay. These are both indications of Canada's willingness to welcome politically conscious and peaceful individuals such as Josh and his collegues into Canada.

  • Kim
    4:43 pm on September 24th, 2008 63

    Whether Joshua Key's claim in his The Deserter's Tale book is true or otherwise, US occupation (yes, we non-American see it as an occupation and invasion) of Iraq is immoral, driven by the vast oil resources and is akin to Hitler's wars, masked by publicised search of WMD. Where is the WMD? People of Iraq have been treated like animals by SOME of the occupiers. Some of you think the war is fought because of American Patriotism? Sad. How many families of American soldiers have suferred because of this war?

    I am not an American by the way. The US politicians and foreign policy always arrogantly think and act as if they are the police of the world. I think Americans have been fooled and misled by their government. Americans have no idea of how much hatred the rest of the world has harboured since they invaded Iraq with their military mighty.

  • silentgrayfellow
    4:06 pm on December 9th, 2008 64

    Kim,

    WMD was just one of many reasons for invading Iraq. And how could we know that they didn't have stockpiles of WMD (although they may still exist in an undiscovered location), since Saddam, in violation of post Gulf War agreements, would not allow UN weapons inspectors to do their jobs? Iraq's violation of numerous UN resolutions was justification enough to invade Iraq, regardless of whether there was suspision of WMD stockpiles.

    From the Iraq War Resolution, one of many reasons cited for authorizing the use of force against Iraq(2002):

    "Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998;

    From Wikipedia:

    United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a resolution by the UN Security Council, passed unanimously on November 8, 2002, offering Iraq "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolution 660, Resolution 661, Resolution 678, Resolution 686, Resolution 687, Resolution 688, Resolution 707, Resolution 715, Resolution 986, and Resolution 1284).

    There's much more to it than that, but I suggest you do your own research into the actual events rather than jumping on the U.S. bashing bandwagon.

    And yes, I believe many of us Americans do have an idea how much hatred the rest of the world has for us. Thanks for the reminder.

  • Col. Kenneth
    1:19 am on December 15th, 2008 65

    aaah, this brings me back to the time we used red cross cars to deliver weapons to the afghani. all in the name democracy, and under orders of the us president! and i'm not even american! and the time my squad spent in iraq training the national guard, so they could defend themselfs against "terrorists". happy times!

    peace and love, from a nordic special soldier operating under whatever flag you throw my way :cool:

  • brat
    6:19 am on January 28th, 2009 66

    Polls show that the majority of Canadians support resisters? NOT this Canadian. As with all polls, the question is framed to garner the required numbers. Also the motion passed by the Canadian government was NON-binding. In other words, just mere political posturing, and worthless. Hell, our government won't even ask for Omar Khadr to be returned to Canada from GITMO. Keep him, too!As always, when asked for facts and proof of allegations, supporters of people like Key and his other disserter buddies and supporters, immediately go to personal attacks. STILL without presenting PROOF! And the msm swallows it hook, line and sinker.

  • Some Soldier's M
    7:11 am on January 28th, 2009 67

    In my view, the home invasions in which Mr. Key participated, despite a disturbing level of brutality, did not reach to the level of a war crime. The invasions, in my opinion, do not reflect the heinous conduct anticipated by the definition of war crimes which according to the Rome Statute includes such misdeeds as murder, deportation to slave labour and taking civilian hostages.

    the Canadian review board talks about the Americans' "disturbing level of brutality" in these raids… wonder if they considered the incredibly, mind numbing level of violence, brutality, murderous behavior, and torture by the enemy — including murder, deportation to slave labour and taking civilian hostages — to which the Americans were responding. After all, gentlemen, the Americans were not responding to an invitation to tea… they were responding (quite measurably btw) to attacks BY THE ENEMY. Anyone care to remind the Canadian judges that IT IS A WAR?? Key is a liar and a poseur trying to capitalize on his cowardice… after all, no one would give this guy his 15 minutes if he just plain admitted that he was too frightened to do his job and that he had browned his underwear.

  • The Deserter’s Tale - Milbloggers deconstruct Joshua Key’s lies | Task Force Delta
    1:39 pm on January 28th, 2009 68

    [...] Joshua Key, you need the boys at This Ain’t Hell (who are on fire) and other milblogs (like this excellent post from ROKDrop) to have a dose of [...]

  • UpNorth
    1:19 pm on January 28th, 2009 69

    Kim, yeah the oil thing worked so well, that's why the price of oil tripled last year? As to WMD's, how does 550 metric tons of yellow-cake uranium sound? That's what was found in Iraq and sent to Canada. Yellow-cake is used for weapons and reactors. So, we're "hated" by the rest of the world? Too bad, picture me as someone who doesn't really care.

  • shunha7878
    2:34 pm on January 28th, 2009 70

    would somebody go to amazon.com and leave those fools who believe this crap a note telling them they are stupid. I don't have an account.thanks

  • Wondering
    1:58 am on January 29th, 2009 71

    You addressed almost every other point except this one:"But our platoon was made to stand guard outside that house for about an hour. The women started shouting and screaming. The men stayed in there with them, behind closed doors. It went on and on and on."Can you speak to this?

  • BWitt
    7:13 am on January 29th, 2009 72

    Gentlemen – First I applaud all of the patriots who serve and continue to protect and defend our Constitution. It's cowards such as this fellow Keys that make me want to retch up my dinner. Keep up the good work and Godspeed from a stateside civilian.

  • sfcmac
    12:38 pm on January 29th, 2009 73

    Good job, Rokdrop!

    I sent this off to the LA Times book reviewer:

    Re: Your gushing review over the latest faux anti-war Iraq veteran, aka Joshua Key:

    When I read your comments about this numbnuts, my bullshit meter pegged.
    What part of all volunteer military in time of war don’t you (or Key) understand?

    In spite of all the inane accusations over kids being “suckered” into enlisting, there’s a disproportionate number of re-enlistments as opposed to the Shepards, Hicks’, Kokeshs’, MacBeths’, Capps’ and Keys, who suddenly have remorse over joining the military.

    The Winter Soldier II/IVAW miscreants are frauds and pathological liars who feed the maws of the fawning leftwing MSM.

    I’m proud to be one of those military bloggers who exposes the likes of Keys and the rest of the phonies and pseudo-tragic heroes who embellish their records, falsify documents, and concoct Beauchamp-style war stories. They disgrace themselves and the uniform with their reprehensible, asinine behavior. Most of the IVAW were problem children who were expeditiously discharged from the military. Their sudden anti-war, anti-military epiphanies seemed to occur in conjunction with their disciplinary problems.
    They even have a propensity to lie about that.

    People with even a modicum of integrity don’t feel the need to wear medals and decorations they haven’t earned, make false claims, and accuse others of ‘war crimes’ that were never committed. In other words, they’re frauds. These fine examples of hypocrisy enlisted after 9/11.

    No one forced the little jackasses to enlist. They did it willingly. Apparently, they’re not smart enough to figure out that the U.S. sends the military where it’s needed. You don’t get to pick and choose assignments or conflicts. The purpose of the Army is to fight and win the nation’s wars. I’ve always wondered why these morons volunteer for duty then piss about what they were trained to do.

    Thanks for giving these certifiable wackjobs a platform to spew their sob stories and pander to a shit-for-brains, nihilist audience.

    How about interviewing some authentic heroes for a change? Start with any one of the thousands of military personnel and veterans who served honorably and killed enemy terrorist combatants in the line of duty. But that’s less important than giving publicity to deserters who smear their country and their branch of service with made-up stories about ‘atrocities’.

    Check out the responses by Iraq war veterans in the comment section where this screed is being sold on Amazon. It doesn’t work with people who know better.

    SFC Cheryl McElroy
    US ARMY (RET)
    Iraq War veteran

  • USinKorea
    11:21 pm on February 1st, 2009 74

    Either GI Korea or another reader might want to go over to the Joshua Key Wikipedia entry – to the Controversy – section and do some editing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Key#ControversyIt's a very slick writing job. It attacks this blog post in particular – taking one minor fact stated in GI Korea's post (whether or not Key was the first deserter since the Vietnam War) and disproves it but uses it as a "smoking gun" to discredit everything else.It also fails to mention any other sources that have attacked Key's credibility. The Amazon.com reader review section is overwhelmingly negative with insights from soldiers and people familiar with the army – pointing out issues with Key's statements – much like GI Korea did. It even claims that many in Key's unit have verified his account but uses GI Korea's blog entry as a footnote.

  • GI_Korea
    11:49 pm on February 1st, 2009 75

    I saw that too over a Wikipedia and I have been typing up a response and an updated Joshua Key posting. Key was the first US military member to defect to Canada that served in Iraq, those other two never deployed. This is a common tactic by people on the far left. Notice how no where in that Wikipedia entry were the lies I exposed by Key ever disputed.

  • USinKorea
    12:34 am on February 2nd, 2009 76

    It was slick willie writing – the kind of thing you'd teach in a dubious rhetoric 101 course.The page will have to be monitored — checked every month or two — due to the nature of Wikipedia.I'm a Wiki fan. At least it offers ground you can contest, but, you have to go back to entries you might care about to see what has been done with it over time.That Controversy section on Key needs the work. I don't know enough about the military or about his case to offer much.

  • gordon
    9:55 pm on February 2nd, 2009 77

    I agree that this guy is full of crap. The military serves it's function, and is doing the best it can under the circumstances it is faced with. However, I do think that US foreign policy has been woefully misguided over the past 8 years, and I'm hoping to see major change with Obama. The Iraq war should never have happened, and can never be justified, but this is not the fault of the military. Government policy makers and the Bush administration have taken idiocy to a new level with this dumbed down 'war on terrorism' mind control scheme. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: terrorist is just another word for 'bad person,' but would we ever see the government start a war on 'bad people' because it's absurd. But the difference lies only in semantics. Understanding why people are driven to do the things they do–desperation, lack of education, and religious indoctrination–and doing as much as possible to chance the underlying realities and perceptions that inform the 'terrorist' mindset is the intelligent way to approach this, and always has been. Violence breeds violence. The role of a military should be deterrence and defense, not control and occupation.The Iraq war was started on lies and propaganda. That's a fact. Saddam was not responsible for 9/11, there were no WMDs, there was no credible threat, but there was the prospect for economic gain. Democracy in the middle east? Give me a break. You might just as well try to start forest fires over there. Just try to get some separation of church and state, and see what happens. That was never a real goal. The only kind of government that can work in modern day Iraq (given the fractious nature of the population) is the kind of dictatorship Saddam operated. Total control, or none at all. The US military should be outraged at being so used.Assclown Bush was the worst president in the history of the US, hands down. He was interested only in stomping out the bad people, and I do think that the true goals of this war were less than noble. All of this has only made more enemies, polarized the middle east, and tarnished the role and reputation of the US. Thank-god there is now a president in office that can string a sentence together, and use his words to foster understanding.

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