From the Chosun Ilbo:
Moreover, the Abe regime has been reneging on the promises and apologies of previous administrations in the way it deals with the controversial Yasukuni Shrine, history texts and former sex slaves, in addition to its pursuit of amending its pacifist constitution. Under these circumstances, Japan’s push to become what it thinks is a “normal†nation is simply a marriage of economic might and military capabilities with a very weak sense of ethics and historical hindsight. A country with such attributes should be called “abnormal.†The problem now facing Korea is how to view and deal with such an abnormal nation.
If the Chosun Ilbo writers wants to talk about countries being “abnormal” let’s discuss it. First of all, isn’t unilaterally declaring that the Camp Humphreys relocation is going to be delayed by 5 years from the agreed upon date between the US and Korean governments and then the USFK commander first finding out about this by reading the newspaper just a bit “abnormal”? Isn’t unilaterally cutting agreed upon money for the upkeep of the US-ROK alliance only weeks after making the agreement “abnormal”? Isn’t giving over a billion dollars this year to North Korea while denying USFK the agreed upon money for the upkeep of the US-ROK alliance “abnormal”?
Isn’t the current mass sexual slavery of North Korean women going on in China today without a word of outrage from the South Korean government “abnormal”? Isn’t the fact that the South Korean government would rather have North Korean defectors return to certain death in a gulag then be allowed to enter South Korea “abnormal”? Isn’t the fact that the South Korean government abandons their own citizens kidnapped by the North Koreans to the point that a lone ajumma had to free here husband from North Korea herself just a bit “abnormal”? Then the South Korean government sends Kim Jong-il a suitcase filled with $400,000 dollars in cash also “abnormal”. Isn’t the fact that South Korean teachers have been caught with North Korean propaganda with intent to distribute while constantly spreading anti-US rhetoric in the classrooms also just a bit “abnormal”?
I could go on and on and don’t even get me started on China, but if the Japanese are “abnormal” they have plenty of company.
10:26 am on April 17th, 2007 1
[...] Korea pointedly asks who is calling whom an “abnormal country.” [ROK Drop] Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers [...]
10:37 am on April 17th, 2007 2
What, no mention of fan death?
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1:38 pm on April 17th, 2007 3
[...] [GI Korea] "Abnormal" Japan Published: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:17:22 +0000 From the Chosun Ilbo: Moreover, the Abe regime has been reneging on the promises and apologies of previous administrations in the way it deals with the controversial Yasukuni Shrine, history texts and former sex slaves, in addition to its pursuit of amending its pacifist constitution. Under these circumstances, Japan’s push to become what it thinks is [...] Read More… [...]
2:06 pm on April 17th, 2007 4
“Abnormal” will be when North Korea does anything they have promised to do in return for rice, fertilzer, medical aid, cattle, or money.
South Korea may soon have to choose who will be their friend… (Only North Korea can have their cake and eat it too!)
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2:18 pm on April 17th, 2007 5
Maybe you knew this but one of the slogans Abe and rightwingers there use is that “Japan should be a normal country.” By that they mean Japan is not a normal country for not having a regular military and becasue it’s constitution holds it back. The problem is that giving little half-apologies without being in any way apologetic about the past isn’t normal either.
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4:51 pm on April 17th, 2007 6
And re labelling people known to be guilty of atrocities during war as ‘victims’, is also a little abnormal.
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5:46 pm on April 17th, 2007 7
Oranckay, I have long criticized Japan for making stupid statements and have been to the Yasukuni shrine and saw first hand the nonsense there. However, the abnormalities of Japan in comparison to the abnormalities of SK, NK, and China are not even close.
I get tired of the demagouges in SK acting like they hold some kind of moral high ground when they through complicity allow modern day sexual slavery of Korean women today in China. The current NK defector incident in Laos is just another example in a very long line of examples of the moral bankruptcy of the SK government.
If SK spent half the amount of time on the NK defector issue as they spend on nonsense like Dokdo, East Sea, and Abe they may actually hold some moral high ground to criticize Japan with.
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6:07 pm on April 17th, 2007 8
GK
And asking for apology and compensation continuously in spite of hiding the fact of receiving money 40 years ago, is also a little abnormal, isn’t it?
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6:22 pm on April 17th, 2007 9
oranckay
“The problem is that giving little half-apologies without being in any way apologetic about the past isn’t normal either.”
If my knowledge of history is correct, there have been no western countries which apologized and compensated for the guilty of colonization in the past to the victim countries except Japan.
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9:22 pm on April 17th, 2007 10
As I commented in the Marmot’s Hole, I’ve never met a Japanese, except for some Japanese female tourists in HK who thought I was Japanese, so no comment on whether they are “abnormal†or not, although by looking at Japanese NSFW material, one does…well you get the idea.
As for Koreans being “abnormalâ€, I totally agree with GI Korea. I know, have talked, and worked with a lot of Koreans and although some are calm and logical, they are in the minority. A majority, on the other hand, do and say things that defy logic. One wonders what is going through their brains.
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1:28 am on April 18th, 2007 11
Well … than let me talk about a “normal” country that invades other country for possessing WMD, kills their leader, can´t find proof of thoses damn WMD and want other countries to take care of the mess, because they already achied their real goal (Oil).
And what about that odd place in Cuba, a special place named Guantanamo were people are held prisioner withouth reason or at least a right judgment. That sounds very “normal” to me …
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3:28 am on April 18th, 2007 12
[...] 2007-04-17 09:23 작성 | South Korea, US-ROK Issues, Japan, Asides GI Korea pointedly asks who is calling whom an “abnormal country.” [ROK Drop] [...]
4:05 am on April 18th, 2007 13
In short, there are no countries which have a right to criticize other countries as “abnormal”.
So, this Korean journalist of Chosun Ilbo is just an idiot.
He should teach his boys (including kyopo) not to kill innocent people before criticizing foreign countries.
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5:29 am on April 18th, 2007 14
[...] Drop North Korean Spies Convicted “Abnormal” Japan Politicizing the Military Things to Do in Korea: Suraksan Mountain Civic Groups Demand Asylum for [...]
6:46 am on April 18th, 2007 15
Jion999
Thanks for your comments. You are right about countries critizing other contries.
Regarding the korean journalist, I wish you could understand that his attitude reflects somehow the anger of koreans toward the Japanese. His words are unecessarily strong, but just imagine that someone from you family has been kill or abused. You would feel anger too.
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12:01 pm on April 18th, 2007 16
Understand the reporter? I think everyone understands him…and their conclusion is that he is milking the same old worn out arguments to propagate hatred.
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3:17 pm on April 18th, 2007 17
Dr.Yu
“Regarding the korean journalist, I wish you could understand that his attitude reflects somehow the anger of koreans toward the Japanese.”
Many Koreans hate Americans because of USFK armored vehicle accident and/or No-gunri “massacreâ€.
But Korean papers tried to distort the story and inspired Korean people xenophobic hatred against Americans who helped the independence of Korea 60 years ago.
Now, how much percentage of Koreans experienced the life during the Japanese colonial period?
Why young Koreans who suffered nothing bad from Japanese in their lives have such a vindictive animosity against Japanese?
Korean history education and Korean media continue to inspire xenophobic hatred to young Koreans with distorted fabricated charges again and again.
Anti-US and anti-Japan sentiments of Koreans have similar cause of Korea’s problems. They are Koreans’ fanatic nationalism, xenophobia, narcissism, and ambition to be stronger than US and Japan.
Even if Koreans hate someone or some countries, it doesn’t mean that Koreans have a justified reason to do so.
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6:12 pm on April 18th, 2007 18
How many Koreans have been killed by the Japanese in the last 60 years? How many people of any country have been killed by the Japanese in the last 60 years? If the hatred for Japan was coming from the elderly Korean generation I could understand but the people who hate Japan the most and spread anti-Japanese sentiment are not the elderly Koreans but people who had no experience of the colonial period, World War II, or even the Korean War for that matter.
I’m still waiting for Koreans to demand that China apologize and compensate them for invading Korea during the Korean War and ensuring that the country remains divided to this day. How many Koreans did the Chinese kill during the Korean War compared to the amount of Koreans killed during the Japanese colonial period? The Japanese have at least payed a huge settlement to Korea that spurred Korea’s economic development.
Many elderly Americans hold grudges against the Japanese but this sentiment is not directed at the Japanese people of today like it is in Korea. The anti-Japanese sentiment in Korea is doing a disservice to the country. North Korea is not the ROK’s friend and neither is China. Japan is a potential friend but is treated as Korea’s greatest enemy while the Chinese gobble up Korean history, slowly integrate NK into China, violate human rights of NK defectors, and use NK women as sex slaves. In light of all this I find the Dokto and Abe issues minor in comparison.
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8:02 am on April 19th, 2007 19
Well …. now I see what´s the point here …. is Korea against USA right? that´s why Japan is the “good guy” and korea the “bastards”.
First of all usa has also problems with “forget the past” issue from inside. Just look at the american black people and the native indians, they demanded for apology and compensation from the american government for what they suffered in the past, and guess what happened? tax exception, indian reserves and afirmative action !! I wonder why american generations that did not take part in the “problems” had to pay bill (guilt?).
Regarding korea and china, the issue is not as serious as is with Japan, also the problems with china are being handled properly according to korean interest and benefit. See this is the point and the core, where the problems lies since you can not accept that korea handle it´s ploblems freely, without intromission from the “big ally”.
I agree with you that usa helped korea during the war, and I´m sincerely thankful for what america did; whenever I think of the young americans that died for a country they did not know and were not related, I fell sorry for their lives and for their family.
But a question: how long you intent to keep charging the bill for the “help”, again .. I say thank you … but please don´t makes us your slave for what happened, I thought you came here to protect our freedom, not to take it or just replace japan´s place… Korea started payng the bill many years ago, and is still paying, but it does not give you the right to Ãnterfere in our lives just for your own interest.
Let´s be honest …. america needs the “axe of evil” to justify it´s military power and to intervene in the world. I assume that you GI is a soldier, right? than you know exactly what will happen if the axe dissapears … you lose your job, boeing closes the door, Lookhee Martin as well, american companies will disappear because depends deeply from the american “war industry”.
And now korea just does not “cooperate” (obey) with america, giving them the “right” or the needed justification to keep their interest in the korean region, right?.
On the other hand Japan says “Hay!!!” to whatever the protector of the “world freedom” says. But till when???? forever? no !!! just until their interest keep matching with those of the americans.
So ….. back to the point, americans sides with the japaneses because they obey, ooppsss !!! sorry … they collaborate with america, while korea sucks because they does not “collaborate” with american “international policy”. So fuck the comfort women, right?
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8:52 pm on April 19th, 2007 20
Move the GI’s out of South Korea and put them in Iraq, pronto. Rumsfeld may been only “musing,” but he got it right. As it is now, the U.S. is spending $20 billion a year to back up a pro-North Korean government in Seoul. It would be twofer: The ROK would be forced to wise up and Baghdad would see some dead terrorists — albeit with a certain increased risk of impaired taxi service in near-base areas. Iraq is not a war we can afford to lose. Baghdad under terrorist rule would be 10 times worse for U.S. security than Afghanistan under Bin Laden. It would be a huge morale for the terrorists and this would be especially dangerous in Europe, where many countries have growing Muslim minorities. U.S. would be left without a friend in the world.
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11:50 pm on April 19th, 2007 21
Yesterday I posted my reply to GI about the korean comfort woman issue but now I see it was removed. (censure?)
I won´t post it again since It is not my intention to “engage” in war against people here. (Also it would be removed again anyway…)
Last word: truth hurts!!!
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5:36 am on April 20th, 2007 22
GI Korea
You got a point.
I have wondered why Koreans don’t ask for apology and compensation to Russian, Chinese, and N. Koreans in spite of showing very arrogant attitude against Americans and Japanese on the other hand.
They kneel down easily to the totalitarian countries and display their animosity to friendly democratic countries.
I think there are three possible causes.
1. Koreans never ask for apology to the countries which never apologize. Koreans ask for apology to US and Japan because they apologize to Koreans if Koreans act up.
2. The alliance with US and Japan must be useful for Korea. However, even if Korea allies with US or Japan, it is impossible for Koreans to take a leadership, which Koreans are not satisfied with.
3. Success of N.Korea’s propaganda and manipulation of public opinion in S.Korea to split it from US.
N.Korea is a very poor, backward country.
However, the ability of intelligence organization is very high.
And they know how to deal with arrogant snobbish character of Koreans very well.
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6:55 am on April 20th, 2007 23
Dr Yu, your comment got caught by the spam filter. If your comment does not appear then just post and let me know and I’ll go through the filter and find it. Now let me respond to your comment.
I never expected thanks from anyone about the Korean War and never asked for any thanks for what the GIs over 50 years ago did. However, I do find the current efforts by both the US and Korean media to slime the GIs that fought for the freedom of Korea over 50 years ago quite revolting.
Additionally the US GIs serving in Korea should be thanked for giving up a year of their lives away from their families to serve in Korea. AS far as paying bills, Korea pays very little for the upkeep of USFK and in facts pays vastly more money to North Korea who is the country threatening them and kills Korean military personnel, kidnaps SK citizens, threatens the country with nuclear and missiles tests, and the list goes on and on. The US government pays for the vast majority of the upkeep for USFK and the US government has been trying for years to pull soldiers out of Korea but the Korean government has been the ones delaying it.
The US military isn’t going to lose any jobs by pulling out of Korea and in fact the vast majority of the military and the US population would welcome a pull out. USFK is still there because the Korean government still wants USFK there.
I also find it interesting you think the relationship with China is being handled well. Let’s see China invades Korea completely destroys the peninsula, leads to the deaths of millions of Koreans, ensures the country stays divided, and installs a communist regime in the north that to this day threatens the existence of the country and creates instability in NE Asia and this is not a serious issue?
Additionally I guess the fact China has a system of Korean sex slaves in place now and violates human rights of NK defectors on a regular basis you also consider not a serious issue?
As far as Japan I have long criticized Japan over different issues:
http://rokdrop.com/2007/03/02/no-evidence-to-prove-there-was-coercion/
http://rokdrop.com/2007/02/26/winds-of-change-at-the-yasukuni-shrine/
However, I consider the violation of human rights and sexual slavery of Koreans happening today to be a more pressing issue than worrying about making Japan give another half ass apology for something that happened 60 years ago and that they have paid hundreds of millions of dollars for already while China has paid Korea nothing for the destruction of the peninsula, the killing of its people, and ensuring the division of the peninsula.
Your comments are a perfect example of what I call moral bankruptcy.
http://rokdrop.com/2007/04/06/abe-bush-discuss-sex-slave-issue/
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6:22 pm on April 20th, 2007 24
America’s interest in Iraq is that the country should have government that doesn’t attempt to assassinate our ex-presidents send airliners crashing into our skyscrapers. I don’t really care what happened to Saddam’s chemical weapons and biological weapons and I don’t know why so many people get excited about the issue. They were probably shipped off to Syria just before the fighting started.
I was living in Seoul at the 9/11. Koreans were polite for about two weeks, then they started blaming the U.S. I expect reaction to the VT massacre to follow the same pattern. Even the apologies suggest fear of a racist U.S. blacklash rather than sympathy for the victims. Koreans expect an American to retaliate for VT whatever a drunken soldier does in Uijeongbu is going to be interpreted in that light.
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12:26 am on April 21st, 2007 25
Dr. yu
“But a question: how long you (Americans) intent to keep charging the bill for the “helpâ€, again .. I say thank you … but please don’t makes us (Koreans) your slave for what happened.”
My question.
How long Koreans intent to keep asking for apology and compensation for the “colonization” more than 60 years ago even after receiving money 40 years ago.
Japanese prime ministers apologized to Koreans many times, but please don’t make Japanese your slave for what happened before you were born.
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1:21 am on April 21st, 2007 26
First of all thank you for you comment and your interest on Korean issues. I specially thank you for your deep interest on korean human right issues, it is very touching.
Regarding your reply that you don´t want our thanks for what you (america) has done here, you don´t have to accept it if you don’t want, that´s up to you, but it is part of Korean culture to be polite and respectful to others and thanking others for what they did good is what we learn from our parent from our childhood. I´m sure it is the same in other countries (civilized countries), this is what people call “good manners†and accepting thanking it´s a sign of good manners either. I´m sorry that in your country this simple principle is not applied, you would avoid much problems and misunderstanding with such a simple gesture.
Now this is weird to me since I have already met some americans before and they were so receptive to my thanks and also reacted well to my gesture thanking me back ….
You don´t have to accept my thanks but by acting this way you give clear sing of the american superiority complex …..
Now regarding the other issues I will reply them latter since I have to go back to my work ….
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4:50 am on April 21st, 2007 27
Hi I’m from Brazil. Sorry for my poor english.
I saw above conversation and I just one question.
The WWII already has done but until now korean government and People are claim on japaneses government’s excuse form.
Ok, everyboby has own opinion with reason.
So, I would like to talked my own question.
Brazil also participate on WWII and had registered KIA, of course without any compensations, but with medal of honor.
So, that decade US army established US army base on brazilian territory, denominated as Alcantara, to defeat german troop.
However, until now US army stay in Brazil and they don’t want to get out here with just one reason – US influence on south Hemisphere. US pay for rent the base, but Brazilian goventment doesn’t pay nothing for them.
But Korean government and people are paying so a lot for US troop existence on their mother land. Why?
And Sexual victim is also sames thing.
Why Japanese government doesn’t to pay compensation for these victims.
If Japaneses government and people don’t want to recognize his crime, I think the german also doesn’t need to recognize and apology their crime on jewish and polish and so on.
As everyone know by several historical fact, if People or government doesn’t want to reveal the true and real fact, it means that the history will repeat again.
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8:13 am on April 21st, 2007 28
Dr. Yu,
I said thank the GIs who are serving now, that means more to soldiers serving now than thanking them for something that happened 55 years ago. While stationed in Korea I have had plenty of people who work for USFK thank me for serving in Korea.
However, only twice did a Korean not related to USFK in some way thank me for serving in Korea. I was on the subway and a middle aged gentlemen came up to me and we began to talk. He was a KATUSA 20 years ago and he thanked me for coming to Korea and serving away from home for so long. Another time a taxi driver in Seoul spoke really good English and he told me he learned English working with the US in Vietnam. He said he always liked Americans from his experience in Vietnam and appreciated that I served in Korea. I have actually been assaulted and harrassed more by random Koreans than thanked for serving in the country. That to me is bad manners.
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9:39 am on April 21st, 2007 29
kiko,
Your English is fine and thank you for joining the discussion.
I don’t know much about the Alcantara base in Brazil but I did some searching on the web about it and what I turned up was that the US government signed a lease with the Brazilian government for the land in 2000. So basically the US is renting the land to shoot rockets because the land is closer to the equator which means less fuel is needed which allows larger pay loads to be sent into orbit. I also noticed this article about the Brazilian space agency using the base as well and had a major accident in 2003:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2003/08/24/2003065045
This sounds like a business agreement to me where the US is using the land to put up rockets while the Brazilian space agency can work with the US to build there space industry. The space industry would be a very good thing for Brazil to become involved in with benefits for both Brazil and the US.
The lease of land in Brazil is much different than Korea. In Korea there is a military alliance between the two countries to protect South Korea from North Korean aggression. An alliance means that each side should share the cost of the alliance. However, the US government pays the vast majority of the costs for an alliance the South Koreans get a lot more out of than the US does. The US government has been slowly withdrawing troops from Korea for years and more cutbacks are expected due to the costs of keeping soldiers there. However the Korean government has been doing everything possible to delay and stop US troop cutbacks.
The US forces in Korea provide thousands of well paying jobs for Koreans along with giving the South Korean government inflated influence in Washington that they would otherwise not have if no US forces were stationed in the country.
Contrary to popular belief the US military does not stay where it is not wanted. Korea could vote at anytime for US forces to leave and the US would leave. The fact is the Korean government would never vote for the removal of US forces and opinion polls in Korea all show a majority of people wanting to keep US forces in Korea.
A perfect example of America leaving a country is when the Philippines voted to have US forces leave the country. Very quickly the US left. If the US rocket center in Brazil is not wanted than have the Brazilian congress hold a vote to end the lease. The US will pick up and leave.
As far as Japan they have apologized before many times and back in the 60’s the Japanese government gave hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation payment to the South Korean government. The South Korean government used the many to build highways and industry and gave no money to war victims. Now war victims want money from Japan and the Japanese government says they already paid money to the South Korean government and they chose not to give money to the victims and instead build the economy and infrastructure in the country.
Additionally Japan has apologized many times before for World War II. However, their apologies are considered unsincere by South Korea. The Japanese now feel no apology will ever be considered sincere and are tired of apologizing and feel the South Korean government is demagouging the comfort women issue for domestic political reasons.
Long answer but this is a very complex issue. I recommend you read some of my prior articles in my site archives that can probably give you a better understanding of the issues between Japan and Korea.
Once again thanks for dropping by and reading.
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12:46 am on April 24th, 2007 30
jion999
How long Koreans intent to keep asking for apology and compensation for the “colonization†more than 60 years ago even after receiving money 40 years ago.
Good question, let me ask to the american native indians and black people, probably they will give the recipe of their sucess.
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12:52 am on April 24th, 2007 31
GI,
I still want to thank the americans for what they did in the korean war, to me this was the most significant contribution that USA did for Korea.
As for the GI in Korea now, I don´t know, it´s hard to feel sympathy for them when you read american blogs like this.
Regarding the koreans you met before, what a beautiful history, probably Louis Armstrong was right (what a wondefull world) or probably they did not read your bog yet …
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3:59 am on April 24th, 2007 32
Dr.Yu
“Good question let me ask to the American native Indians and black people, probably they will give the recipe of their success.”
The recipe is meaningless for Koreans even if they might be able to read it.
Though they prefer to order food, they hate to cook by themselves in spite of their poorness.
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6:43 am on April 24th, 2007 33
Dr. Yu,
Way to change the subject, what does Native Americans and blacks have to do with the Japanese colonization of Korea, nice strawman. I guess if the Japanese let you set up casinos in Japan that would be proper reperations to you.
I’m sure that if my blog was a bash Japan blog you would love it. In fact as I pointed out I have been critical of Japan on this blog before but the issues with Japan fail vastly in comparison to issues with North Korea and China.
How can you as a Korean look the other way while Chinese are using Korean women as sex slaves or the North Koreans are kidnapping South Korean citizens while your government does nothing to have them returned? This story of this wife who had to single handedly get her husband returned from North Korea is one of the most inspiring I have ever read:
http://rokdrop.com/2007/01/04/abducted-south-korean-reunited-with-wife/
However, instead of demanding an end to such behavior people like yourself would rather yell “Dokdo is Korea”.
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6:25 pm on April 24th, 2007 34
ED – DELETED PERSONAL ATTACK AGAINST DR. YU
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7:03 pm on April 24th, 2007 35
jion999, lets keep the debate on the topic and not personal attacks against Dr. Yu.
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10:49 pm on April 24th, 2007 36
Jion999,
I read your post. I´m not doctor. it´s just a nickname, I found it funny. That´s it.
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2:20 am on April 25th, 2007 37
GI Korea
Sorry.
But that was not personal attack but reality of Korea.
Dr.Yu
“I read your post. I´m not doctor. it´s just a nickname.”
Of course, I know you are not.
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9:55 am on April 25th, 2007 38
“GI Korea
Sorry.
But that was not personal attack but reality of Korea.
Dr.Yu
“I read your post. I´m not doctor. it´s just a nickname.â€
Of course, I know you are not.”
Ok, no problem …
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7:08 am on April 26th, 2007 39
Thanks for your kind explanation.
You’re right.
US government signed a lease with the Brazilian government for the land in 2000. But you had to know that before the 2000 US army didn’t pay to Brazil.
And Alcantara space institute base is belong to Brazilian government, not to US army.
US army has their operating base for military activity. US are interested in staying in Brazil. You know why.
Launching the rocket is brazilian business, not US.
I know because I was there.
In case of Korean and japanese issue, I think that if japanese apologies are considered unsincere by South Korea, then japanese has to talk with korean victim to solve the problem at once.
Maybe japanese apology mode is not truth or preposterous.
Because here in Brazil, during the WWII, a lot japanese was forced to live in the camp of concentration. But Brazilian government didn’t take any japanese womem for “comfort women”.
On the contrary, after the war, to conpensate the japaneses human right, a lot japanese get a job in brazilian government and finanacial compensation, of course individually.
Nowaday, Japanese comunity has a lot major, general in army, statesman, policeman officer.
I have heard from my friends in US that US government also conpensate japanese, individually, atfer the war because confined in japanese into camp of concentration.
Again, I would like to ask you the japanese compensate these victims individually or just making a lip service annually as politicians.
I think the compensation between countries is not enough, because it is not considered human right.
I have heard many korean lived in Japan during WWII. Now korean descendants has a good social and economic position in Japan? as japanese in Brazil and USA?
Sao Paulo
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7:57 am on April 26th, 2007 40
There are enough red herrings on this thread to fill a stall at the Moran Fish Market.
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6:10 pm on April 26th, 2007 41
kiko
“Because here in Brazil, during the WWII, a lot japanese was forced to live in the camp of concentration. But Brazilian government didn’t take any japanese womem for “comfort womenâ€.”
Koreans were not forced in the camp in those days.
Koreans were Japanese and had an ordinary life.
Some Korean men volunteered as Japanese soldiers.
Some Korean prostitutes worked in Japanese bases.
Koreans distorted the story and overplay the victim card.
“I have heard from my friends in US that US government also conpensate japanese, individually”
“I would like to ask you the japanese compensate these victims individually.”
“I think the compensation between countries is not enough, because it is not considered human right.”
US and Brazil government compensated individually of course, because they are Japanese-Americans and Japanese-Brazilians, not Japanese. It was not the matter of the compensation between countries.
Korean government received compensation from Japanese government in 1965, because Korea requested so.
They rejected individual compensation and received all money from Japan. But they didn’t give money to their people and invested that money to development of Korean infrastructure. They hided that truth from Korean people and ignored when people asked Japanese government for compensation.
That truth was revealed in Korea last year, 40 years after receiving money.
As for Japanese compensation to Korea, please read this.
“Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea” in 1965
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Basic_Relations_between_Japan_and_the_Republic_of_Korea
“I have heard many korean lived in Japan during WWII. Now korean descendants has a good social and economic position in Japan? as japanese in Brazil and USA?”
Of course. No discrimination if they get Japanese nationality.
The point is there are some Koreans who still reject to get Japanese nationality.
If they don’t get it, they are treated as foreigners.
They are requesting the same rights with Japanese without getting Japanese nationality.
As for comfort women controversy, you should read this.
http://www.japan-policy.org/20060822-02.html
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11:23 pm on April 26th, 2007 42
My Godness !!!!
Dear Kiki, why arguing with this guy if he has nothing to do with this issue? He is from USA, he is not going to pay the compensation so it does not matter what he says … he won´t sign the check, he is not going to bow down to us. It´s irrelevant what he says.
You gotta understand that he is angry with korea so he will always speack against korea.
Don´t waste your time here. His arguments is biased.
[Reply]
4:21 am on April 27th, 2007 43
Jion999 you lost whatever tiny bit of credibility you had(very very little) the moment you brought up japan-policy.org as proof for you views. That same site supports Yasukuni, claims that imperial Japan was not responsible for crimes against humanity, denies most of the rape of nanking and claims that Japan is not distorting history.. despite the all the criticism Japan receives from international and western media outlets. That site also demonstrates typical japanese mentality which believes that “compensation” is a solution to all problems.
You confirm the Chosun ilbos view of Abnormal japan.
[Reply]
5:01 pm on April 27th, 2007 44
Dear jion,
Idon’t know what is your intention to lie on historical fact.
I have amny japanese friends here, and many of them is ‘dekaseki’ of whom came to brazil to run away from the war.
Sometimes, I have heard from their parents that during the war, many korean and chinese girl was kidnapped and raped and transffered to japanese army base. And this bacame a social problem, and then japanese government made a trick for collect women through advertisement for job in factory and farm.
This fact is talked by japanese oldman who served as japanese army officer.
I don’t like to criticize you or japan. I know many japanese and they are my good friends.
But your explanation on historical fact is not acceptable.
Koreans were not forced in the camp in those days.
=> Of course, all of population can not be habit on camp.
Maybe japanese transformed the korea territory as camp.
Koreans were Japanese and had an ordinary life.
=> What kind of ordinary life?
Some Korean men volunteered as Japanese soldiers.
=> If japanese army threaten to them which get women will be transffered to japanese soldier camp?
Some Korean prostitutes worked in Japanese bases.
=> In this case, japanese army has to present the official documentation. Why US army documents conduct these fact as criminal one, kidnapping and rape.
Koreans distorted the story and overplay the victim card.
=> I thnks you’re trying to distorce the story to avoid any discussion on japanese responsibility.
if you and japanese people have real ’samurai’ mind, apology to korean victim and tryt to get a friendship.
Because my japanese friend talked to me that ’samurai’ mind is basic concept of japan and this is based on honesty, justice and confidence. Sorry, but I can’t see any honesty, justice and confidence on your explanation.
If japan kidnipped and raped adn killed these victims, even almost of victim was dead, Japan has to show their apology from a heart and compensation to them, not only to korean government.
=> Why don’t make it.
[Reply]
5:52 pm on April 27th, 2007 45
VG86
“despite the all the criticism Japan receives from international and western media outlets.â€
Three major topics or Japan basing, i.e. comfort women, Yasukuni, and Nanking massacre have been broadcasted by China and Korean mainly.
Though both of countries were not real victors of WW2, they have tried to exploit the victor’s justice of western countries.
Though they prefer to criticize the war crimes of Japan again and again, they never apologize for their own crimes in the past.
China criticizes Japan for its diplomacy, but Korea does so for its victim card.
Lately, China has stopped to criticize Japan because of the change of its tactics.
But Korea can’t help continuing the same anti-Japan policy alone.
In fact, there were many Korean soldiers in Japanese force, who fought in Nanking, used Japan’s comfort stations, were punished as war criminals, and were enshrined in Yasukuni
We can find such kind of creeping Jesus sometimes in our lives, who criticizes an old master and fakes to be a victim.
And Korean criticizes Japanese with the loudest voice, louder than any victors of WW2.
[Reply]
7:34 pm on April 27th, 2007 46
kiko
“Sometimes, I have heard from their parents that during the war, many korean and chinese girl was kidnapped and raped and transffered to japanese army base. And this bacame a social problem, and then japanese government made a trick for collect women through advertisement for job in factory and farm.â€
Can you show any evidences?
If you can, Korean government would appreciate you because they can’t.
The testimonies of ex-comfort women are everything for them.
And some of them are old women from notorious North Korea, which never forgives any freedom of speech to its people without permission of the government.
US got evidence that shows those Korean women were recruited as prostitutes.
http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html
There are also advertisements to recruit Korean women for good salary.
http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=527
“Koreans were not forced in the camp in those days.
=> Of course, all of population can not be habit on camp.
Maybe japanese transformed the korea territory as camp.â€
Do you have any evidence?
It is not feasible.
Read this.
http://www.amazon.com/Offspring-Empire-Capitalism-1876-1945-International/dp/0295975334/ref=sr_1_2/102-5617560-0652160?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177664916&sr=8-2
“Koreans were Japanese and had an ordinary life.
 What kind of ordinary life?â€
It must be better than the life of North Korean or American Indians in Brazil.
“Some Korean men volunteered as Japanese soldiers.
=> If japanese army threaten to them which get women will be transffered to japanese soldier camp?”
Many Japanese-Americans and Korean-Americans were forced to be soldiers of US force in WW2.
It is true that most of young Koreans in SK are forced to be soldiers even now.
Many of them immigrate to US or Canada to avoid their obligation.
“Some Korean prostitutes worked in Japanese bases.
=> In this case, japanese army has to present the official documentation. Why US army documents conduct these fact as criminal one, kidnapping and rape.â€
Read the above links.
“Koreans distorted the story and overplay the victim card.
 I thnks you’re trying to distorce the story to avoid any discussion on japanese responsibility.â€
As I wrote on the previous post, Korea received money from Japan in 1965.
Do you think the attitude of Korean government is fair to hide the fact from its people and continue to ask Japan for more money again and again?
“If japan kidnipped and raped adn killed these victims, even almost of victim was dead, Japan has to show their apology from a heart and compensation to them, not only to korean government.
=> Why don’t make it.â€
We shall apologize for the crimes we did.
But we don’t apologize for the fabricated charges.
When do Koreans apologize for their crimes in Vietnam and compensate for the victims?
They should apologize first for their crimes in the past before criticizing other countries.
[Reply]
10:51 pm on April 27th, 2007 47
The truth behind american actions denying compensation right for korea is the fact that USA has also commited war crimes, just like japan (Guantanamo, for instance), that´s why they MUST prevent compensation actions from anywhere in the world.
Sad to admit but the “god america” exist only in the movies. The real america is just like other countries, they commit crimes as well, such as kidnapping citizens of other conuntries withouth fair judgement.
[Reply]
5:06 am on April 28th, 2007 48
Three major topics bashing japan(comfort women, Yasukuni and Nanking)? Wait a moment, since when was it considered racist or anti japanese to tell the truth about these events? Ok since im Korean and I dont support Kims north Korean government I must be anti Korean huh? Talk about insecure, you live in this fantasy world in which Japan has committed no wrongs. How exactly are Koreans and Chinese exploiting the west? You dont even make any sense what sover. Japan raped, murdered and enslaved Chinese and Koreans. So if I rape someone and the rape victim calls the police, I can tell the police that the victim is exploiting the issue and that im the winner? And that I won because im the rapist. You are one sick individual if you think this way.
The Korean government didnt even fight in world war 2 because it didnt exist. The Japanese government by the way surrendered to the Chinese government in 1945. And you act as if China is suddenly so different. Ok so according to you one person(the Chinese ambassador to Japan) tells the Japanese that both countries need positive relations and now China no longer cares about Japans war crimes? What poor thinking. China is still much more anti Japan then Korea is. It doesnt matter if soldiers are in Yasukuni? Let me remind you that many of them were forced by the Japanese military to enlist. Let me also remind you that all Koreans at that time were considered Japanese nationals. In others they were your countries responsibility not ours. Koreans also view those idiots who joined the military as “chinilpa” or traitors. A large number of them were executed after the war for betraying the nation.
Again you live in this fantasy world or as id like to call it “abnormal japan”.
[Reply]
7:48 am on April 28th, 2007 49
VG86
“Japan raped, murdered and enslaved Chinese and Koreans.â€
When Japanese force fought with Chinese, Korean soldiers were on the side of Japanese force.
After the war, victors punished not only Japanese soldiers but also Koreans as war criminals.
Don’t overplay victim card so much.
“So if I rape someone and the rape victim calls the police, I can tell the police that the victim is exploiting the issue and that im the winner? “
Most of Korean comfort women were prostitutes.
Some of them were deceived by pimps.
But it was not the fault of Japanese government but personal crimes of pimps.
Even now, there are many pimps in Korea, aren’t there?
Read this.
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200704/200704250020.html
There remain many news articles of 70 years ago in Korea which say Korean pimps kidnapped Korean women often and sold them to brothers.
Read this.
http://enjoyjapan.naver.com/tbbs/read.php?board_id=phistory&nid=80904
“Ok so according to you one person(the Chinese ambassador to Japan) tells the Japanese that both countries need positive relations and now China no longer cares about Japans war crimes?â€
China exploits distorted history as a diplomatic weapon.
Do you believe all of Chinese propaganda?
If China criticizes Japan, those charges are all accurate?
China still insists SK invaded NK in Korean War. Is that accurate?
China insists Koguryo is Chinese history. Is that accurate?
Don’t exploit the assertion of China which is convenient for Korea only.
“Koreans also view those idiots who joined the military as “chinilpa†or traitors. A large number of them were executed after the war for betraying the nation.â€
Don’t tell a lie.
Korean government used chinilpa for constructing the new country.
Most of them were not executed.
Do you know who commanded SK force during Korean War?
It was Paik sun-yup, who was chinilpa.
Read this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paik_Sun_Yup
[Reply]
8:11 pm on April 28th, 2007 50
Reading this thread is microsm of the ridiculousness between Koreans and Japanese disputing old history while doing nothing about human rights violations, gulags, and modern day Korean comfort women going on today in China and North Korea.
The Chinese and North Koreans governments are laughing watching the Koreans and Japanese fight each other while they continue to commit human rights violations and keep Korean women in sexual slavery today.
[Reply]
2:47 am on April 29th, 2007 51
GIK
“The Chinese and North Koreans governments are laughing watching the Koreans and Japanese fight each other while they continue to commit human rights violations and keep Korean women in sexual slavery today.”
I agree with you.
And I guess the Chinese and North Koreans governments are laughing watching US media and politicians criticize friendly country on comfort women controversy which they propagated.
[Reply]
11:05 pm on May 4th, 2007 52
Punished Koreans? Let me remind you that Korea did not exist between 1910-1945 and that it was primarily the Japanese who were in charge/responsible. Those crimes and those war criminals might have been Korean by heritage but they were Japanese nationals under Japanese orders. Quit blaming Koreans, its clearly Japans fault. You also mention that the allies punished Koreans as a whole? What kind of BS are you sprouting? The Koreans rejoiced when the allies came, they would finally get their country back.
Id also like to see you provide proof for you assertion” most Korean comfort women were prostitutes”. Mind giving a link with solid evidence? Im talking about real evidence and not some japanese right wing blog run by men who drive black vans in Japan. Its clearly Japans fault. They were the ones who opened and handled those brothels, they were the ones who bought these women and used them. If the Japanese government didnt want them then they could have easily refused to deal with prostitutes but they didnt.
So If I buy an african slave and mistreat the person it will be the slave trades fault and not mine correct? The world doesnt work that way. The Japanese are truly unique when it comes to thought. I agree the Japanese are truly abnormal. Its ok to mistreat, murder and rape people as long as you have someone else to blame. Thats rather sad. Ironically enough youre the fool who believes in Chinese propaganda. Didnt you just earlier claim that Koguryeo was Chinese territory despite all the evidence on the contrary? Japanese history is nothing but lies. The US, Canada, Europe and asian media, newspaper and professors constantly criticize Japan over its fake history. When was the last time they criticized Korean history?
[Reply]
4:29 am on June 22nd, 2007 53
Dr. Yu, you need to stop drawing convenient parallels to the war in Iraq and the black and native Americans. Native Americans and African Americans are free in the USA. They are allowed to criticize the government for the past mistakes and choose to live their own life. All student in American learn about the Japanese internment or slavery, they are made aware of their past shames. At least a democracy is being built in Iraq, you can’t throw acid on women’s face for not wearing a veil no more.
What’s going on with North Korea? Judging from the seminars I heard from SK missionaries who went there NK make Africa look like a halfway decent place to live. Abu Gahrib prison is a everyday reality in North Korea. Public executions, death by starvation and nuclear facilities (testing missiles over Japan) are also a reality. It’s happening NOW, Japan isn’t invading other countries anymore and their imperial ambitions are a thing of the past.
The Jewish people were prosecuted for over a century and a good chunk of them died in concentration camps. Do you see them gnashing their teeth at Germans or Europeans for something that happened 60 years ago? Wanting others to feel sorry or guilty for past crimes all the time so they can pacify their fury? Koreans won’t let Japan escape their past fault, but they’ll defend North Korea for basically committing present day atrocities that Japan used to be guilty of.
-Posted by a Korean who wish Koreans would grow out of their nationalist shell
[Reply]
7:53 am on June 22nd, 2007 54
Mr. Lee,
You have proved there is hope for Korea. Even if it is but one Man. One Man is a start. I thank you.
[Reply]
9:09 am on June 25th, 2007 55
Joseph Lee,
If you are a korean I´m a american, ok?
Wake up, read the news. You are one of thoses people that believe everything that american government propaganda says. Freedom? when this word is pronounced by americans it becomes a curse. Every time they say freedom in the news a country in the world is invaded. This word is a magic word for the ears of american voter and a blessing for the american war industry.
[Reply]
11:53 am on June 25th, 2007 56
Yu,
What a poisoned little mind you are. You are free, No?
But you cannot see, so that is all the time I will waste on you.
[Reply]
5:51 am on June 26th, 2007 57
GI Korea,
I am addressing this to you, because from the thread here, I can tell that Dr. Yu will not be intellectually honest no matter what arguments you put forward. This is an emotional issue for Koreans, and it will remain so no matter how much reason or thought you put into your argument. Therefore my comments will serve much more purpose in addressing your concern.
I can see from reading and following your posts throughout the years (a very good website BTW) that just like any good person getting married into a family, you see the good and the bad of your in-laws. While you learn to understand the family and even empathize with their feelings, there are certain things that you just can not understand. The Korea-Japan issue is just that. Don’t try to blame the media, the education system, the younger generation, etc, because it is not all them; the Korea-Japan rivalry just seem to be ingraded in the Korean DNA.
I know that if there was ever a real truely debatable Korea vs Japan issue, as someone who is more intimately involved with Korea, that you would side with the Korean argument. From reading your numerous posts, it makes me laugh knowing that it is these other irrational arguments that Koreans come up with against the Japanese that drives you mad.
I accept these as intangibles that make all of us who we are. Mexicans want total access to the US along its borders but have one of the strictest and brutal border control to its south. English and French are obviously allies and yet every opportunity they get they have some sort of Anglo vs. Franco arguments. Greece vs. Turkey. To a much lesser effect, US vs UK. The rivalry between Korea vs Japan is a very destructive one, unlike the US vs UK, but it is not going to go away any time soon.
[Reply]
11:23 am on June 26th, 2007 58
Dan,
Just prove me that I´m wrong, ok?.
Have you ever heard about “Pax Americana”. That´s the american doctrine to perpetuate the american supremacy in the world. Read about it.
[Reply]
11:55 am on June 26th, 2007 59
Dan,
Regarding “Pax Americana” I will give you a little hint bellow:
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1018-03.htm
Read it. But this is just a tiny bit of this doctrine. If you don´t know it than I regret to tell you that you are not well aware of your own country. If you know it, could you give me thoughts on it?
[Reply]
11:13 pm on June 26th, 2007 60
Yu, don’t have the time right now, but will read your links later today.
But I must state the obvious, you are free. How you can hate your own freedom, and the country that made it possible is well beyond my understanding. You speak blind hate, and it is obvious for all to see. In doing so, you close the minds of others to what you want to say. This is not the way to bring others to your side. I started to say that you must be very young, but then I remembered Cindy Sheehan.
By the way, the lawsuit over the pants and the Korean Cleaners was thrown out. Wow, look at that American Justice in action.
[Reply]
2:48 am on June 27th, 2007 61
Dan,
I do not deny the fact that koreans are free because of the americans, isn´t obvious? Believe me, koreans are truly thankfull to americans for what they did, but sometimes it is annoying watching americans yelling it everytime we do something that goes against their interest.
Although you free us from japan´s domination such action has become a burden for koreans since it looks like the only change in the situation was USA replacing Japan´s place.
Ok, you will say that we are in better sitiation that with the japanese, but you must admit that USA has not come here because you guys love koreans, you are here to protect your interest in Asia. The fact that we are free is just a side efect, something that has to be done in order to you achieve your goal, in this regard, the freedom of Korea serves to USA supremacy purpose. Come on, I know that no korean life deserves the life of an american soldier and no korean interest deserves a cent of american money, yet you keep here thousands of soldiers and spend billions dollars here. Can you explain this?
On my reply to Joseph Lee I said that freedom when pronounced by americans has become a curse, and that´s true, please read the article of the link, I did not say that for nothing, an exemple? Joseph said that native americans are free now in USA so they are happy now, right? do you really believe that? Well … as far as I remember they were free before the americans invaded north america (yes, from their point of view you guys invaded their land) and now they are confined in reserves. Ok they have casinos, but I´m sure they prefer their past life to casinos.
Freedom when granted by americans is not for free since it comes with a bill. I don´t think this is wrong but you should be frank and honest when presenting the bill, just say I´m here because I need and since I had to spend some resorces you must compensate me, it´s that simple. What annoy koreans and the rest of the world is that you simply call yourself the savior of the world but your true intention is making more money, in this sense the romans were at least sincere.
I´m sure you heard about the crusades. You know that the freedom of Jerusalem from the muslims was just an excuse to europe invade and seize the wealth of muslim nations. Well there is an other country now that uses the same excuse (freedom) to invade others, do I need to go further?
Read the article about “Pax Americana” and stop whinnying about pulling out the soldiers from korea. America has more to profit with them in korea and your leaders know that. Americans soldires are not in korea for the sake of koreans, they are there because of the sake of america. Can you prove me that I´m wrong?
[Reply]
11:38 am on June 27th, 2007 62
Your not wrong about why GIs are in Korea. I don’t want them there. That is why I “whine” so much about it. I know the reason for them being there is past. There are better places for them to be. Not for them but for America. Korea does not need them or want them. We Agree?
As for PAX America, I had heard of it before. I read your link, and then I read some other info about it.
America as a world police force? Been doing that for a while in Korea and other countries such as Hondurs and Germany and others.
America taking care of the world because it is good for America AND good for the world? I didn’t know we were THAT great, but OK by me.
Check out (PNAC), Project for the New American Century.
As for America wanting to be compensated for what it does for other countries WHILE serving it’s self interest. Come on YU. Has any Korean ever done anything for FREE. No? Then why would anyone do something for free. Freedom is not free. Freedom is VERY expensive. We just follow the Korean example.
I think you will agree, SOMEONE must be in charge. Here it is city then State, then Country. One day, probably not in our life time, there will be a World Government. It will be currupt to a greater or lesser extent, just as all organizations are. It doesn’t matter if I want it or if you want it. That is just progress. I tend to both fear and like the concept. Doesn’t matter because I will be long dead.
For now, I just wish America would leave Korea to Koreans. I know it will not happen. But I wish it would.
If you wonder what America thinks of World Oppinion, I (speaking for myself) say this: if America did not care about world oppinion, Iran would be a smoking hole in the ground. The power is there to be used. But it isn’t. I wonder if Iran will be so kind. I don’t think Korea would be. Maby America has what it takes to be in Charge. I don’t know and will not live long enough to find out.
Give America a little credit for not destroying those that would destroy her, at the end of the Cold War.
I know that none of my rambling will dent your insightfulness in any way. It came out just the same. Hate and fear America if you wish. It will mean the same as me wishing for America to leave Korea—NOTHING.
Remember, the Pants case was thrown out. Now THAT is important today!
[Reply]
2:20 pm on June 29th, 2007 63
Dr. Yu,
First of all let me destroy your Native American argument because I hear this all the time from foreigners how the US treats Indians poorly. I grew up in the western US and spent six years living in Arizona which has the highest Native American population. I had a roommate in college that was Navajo. So I know a little something about Native-Americans.
You say “Americans Invaded North America” which shows your lack of knowledge of American history. The first people to “invade America” were the Spanish. The Spanish destroyed entire civilizations such as the Incas and Aztecs before moving into the now western US and fighting tribes there. Look on an American map and see how many names in western America are Spanish. This is because a large part of the western US is Spanish. Florida was also part of Spain but the Spanish could never finish off the Seminoles who were native to Florida and continue to live on reservations there. Seminoles warrior mentality is highly respected to this day in America with the state university in Florida using the seminole name as their mascot.
Secondly on the US East Coast the British “Invaded North America” and initially had good relations with the Indians until land squabbles turned into open warfare and pushed the eastern Indians off much of their lands. That is why there are few natives left in the eastern US. Something else that is little known is that disease killed vastly more numbers of natives than open warfare ever did. Also the claim that the US military used small pox laced blankets to kill Indians has been proven false:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_history_of_American_indigenous_peoples
The claims came from Ward Churchhill who is well known in the US as an America hater and 9/11 conspiracy theorist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill
The French controlled a vast portion of the interior of the US before the US purchased the land from the French during the Louisiana Purchase in the early 1800s. As colonists began to move in large numbers into the praire lands this what created open conflicts with the plain indian tribes. The plains indians were nomadic and war like and constantly fought each other. Most of the Indian tribes were not these peace loving people at one with nature as the mythology goes. Most were war like tribes that fought each other, infant mortality rates were high, and if you lived to age 35 you were considered elderly. Not what I consider an ideal lifestyle.
The fights with the plains indians moved into all out war eventually with the US Army. The US Army did not fight all the Indians. Many tribes actually helped the US Army because they hated the dominant tribes they had long been at war with. The US Army probably never would have conquered the plains Indians as quickly as they did without the help of friendly tribes. The conquered tribes originally did get a raw deal in land disputes with the US government at the time. The raw deals and some of the infamous killings of Indians such as sandcreek and wounded knee are well known and taught in US classrooms.
The giving of land back to the natives and government compensation payments every year to every native is a way to make amends. Today there are 2.5 million pure blood natives in America along with 1.6 million mixed blooded native-Americans.
Since Dr. Yu is from Brazil lets compare this to Brazil. When the Conquistadores landed in Brazil there was 7 million aboriginals. Today there are 400,000 left.
http://mostlywater.org/node/9885
The ones that are left faces massive discrimination and loss of their lands due to loggers and farm clearing. The government in these states is in fact helping to remove the indigenous people and throwing indigenous people who resist in jail and in just 2005 murdered 39 of them.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13217
The indigenous people continue to face violence and are being forced off their lands by hired gunmen from companies and land owners as well. To make matters even worse many indigenous people face sexual abuse, rape, and are forced into prostitution:
http://www.libertadlatina.org/Crisis_Indigenous_LatAm_Brazil_Index.htm
Lets look at Australia’s aboriginals. The violence and sexual abuse of women and children by aboriginal males has gotten so bad that now the Prime Minister has declared a National Emergency and deployed the Australian military into the remote aboriginal communities:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070621/twl-uk-australia-aborigines-0a8ef25.html
Need I go on? Compared to othere countries including Dr. Yu’s own Brazil it much better to be a native living in America than it is in other countries around the world.
My roommate in college definitely preferred going to college which was paid for through scholarships to native Americans and living in a home with a car and access to advanced medical care instead of living in a teepee and subject to the elements and constant warfare and be lucky to live to age 35. This mentality that native people would rather live their traditional ways I hear all the time and is so false. I have travelled to many countries and people want to live comfortable lives with modern conveniences but do not want to lose their culture at the same time.
Native Americans are the same way. They don’t want to spend their lives living in a teepee which Dr. Yu thinks they prefer.
Now let me move on to Dr. Yu’s other assertion that the US is in Korea to make money. I’m trying to think how the world would be different now if President Truman let Kim Il-sung have SK. The country would be dirt poor right now and probably would have collapsed after the Soviet Union fell. NK did not collapse like the other communist nations simply because of foreign aid when the famine hit and their economy collapsed. A united Korea would have meant that no one would have sent them aid and would simply let them collapse with the strong possibility that China would have moved in and absorbed them.
Truman got involved in Korea due to the principle of standing up to communism. He felt that if the US did not stand up to communism in Korea than the Soviets would try to forcibly advance communism in other nations as well. There was not intent to make money in Korea than and there is not intent now. In fact the US loses money by being in Korea because the ROK government will not pay even 50% of the cost of the US-ROK alliance. The US has been trying to withdraw troops out of Korea for years in fact decades if you include President Carter’s attempts to remove USFK. Each time the Korean government does everything possible to stop it.
Even the anti-US president Roh Moo-hyun did everything possible to stop the USFK withdrawals and consolidations. The US wants out of Korea and the Korean government wants to keep us there because many jobs are depended on USFK and the US military serves as an insurance policy on international investment. If you were an investor wouldn’t you feel a whole lot better about your investment in Korea with the US military protecting it? Additionally the US military insures that any war started by NK would be over quickly due to superior US firepower, communications, equipment, etc.
The ROK Army could on its own win a war against NK but it would take longer and ultimately large portions of the country would be destroyed. If the USFK leaves do not expect any US ground forces to ever assist in combat operations on the Korean peninsula. It is not even a given that US air or naval forces would help. The Korean government understands all this and does everything possible to maintain the USFK status quo. When 2BCT was pulled out of 2ID the Korean government went ape shit over it and the follow on reductions.
http://rokdrop.com/2004/08/17/us-downsizing-forces-but-not-mine-yet/
Than the Korean government proceeded to do everything possible to stop the consolidation by dragging their feet over the Camp Humphreys expansion and Yongsan relocation and then the hand over of vacated USFK bases in 2ID and the most absurd was the operational control issue. Roh says we can take over operational control now and USFK says okay we will give it to you in 2008 and then suddenly he changes his tune and fights to have it changed to 2012 after Roh is long out of office and any after effects wouldn’t involve him. Links below:
http://rokdrop.com/2006/12/13/camp-humphreys-relocation-to-be-delayed/
http://rokdrop.com/2007/02/24/wartime-control-delayed-to-2012/
I would like Dr. Yu to provide examples of what money the US is getting out of Korea? If anything Korea has been sucking money out of the US. Look at the trade imbalance between the two countries. Since the Park Chung-hee regime the US has given favorable trade deals to the Korean chaebols in order to build the SK economy. This was all done while the US military was providing security protection for the country. The most important thing the US ever got out of Korea is that it is an example that capitalism followed by democracy works. The US did not create the Korean miracle the hard work of Korean workers did, but US security guarantees and favorable trade deals certainly nurtured it and made it possible.
[Reply]
7:44 am on June 30th, 2007 64
Dan,
Thanks for your sincerity. Regarding your answer:
“Your not wrong about why GIs are in Korea. I don’t want them there. That is why I “whine” so much about it.”
My goodness, I though I was the only “anti-american” here. Be careful, by admitting that you don’t want GI’s in korea you are conspiring against American interest in Asia. The NSA may be tracking this blog !!!! (BTW, why such a free country like USA needs something like the NSA? I though people in USA were free. Maybe freedom in USA has a different meaning from the rest of the world.)
“As for PAX America, I had heard of it before. I read your link, and then I read some other info about it. America as a world police force? Been doing that for a while in Korea and other countries such as Hondurs and Germany and others. America taking care of the world because it is good for America AND good for the world? I didn’t know we were THAT great, but OK by me. Check out (PNAC), Project for the New American Century. I think you will agree, SOMEONE must be in charge”
We are talking about something inevitable: somebody has to play the “sheriff” of the world, whether the USA or someone else. If it has to be the USA fine, as long as it is based on fairness.
“As for America wanting to be compensated for what it does for other countries WHILE serving it’s self interest. Come on YU. Has any Korean ever done anything for FREE. No? Then why would anyone do something for free. Freedom is not free. Freedom is VERY expensive.”
As I said before I think it is fair for USA demand for compensation for “freeing” people around the world, however it should be in a frank and fair manner. You guys are not that good people as you boast about. You are humans like any others so are moved by interest and ambition.
“We just follow the Korean example.”
I don’t want to argue on that since it is a stupid argument. However if you were right, it only shows that we are all nothing but human beings.
“If you wonder what America thinks of World Opinion, I (speaking for myself) say this: if America did not care about world opinion,”
If you had some reason in your mind you would see that that’s unfeasible. The winner exists because there are losers. The USA without the rest of the world would be like a king without a kingdom. The USA is a superpower because it can dominate and manipulate the world, however strength is no longer the only way to achieve this goals. Imagine your goods without consumers, imagine the USA without oil from the middle east and so on, the USA would no longer be a super power. See a little example: USA almost declared war to Korea because of some piece of meat. Boeing was in danger because almost lost the bidding for the F-15K.
“Remember, the Pants case was thrown out. Now THAT is important today!”
Maybe I was wrong; maybe there is still hope for the American society. Hahaha !!!! (Just kidding)
[Reply]
10:07 am on July 1st, 2007 65
I take it that we are coming to agreement on some issues there Yu. It is a beginning. I see you have humor also. That is good! Perhaps you also, will learn somethings here. Not from me as I am also here to learn the present state of affairs, but from others here, more informed than myself.
GI, Nice job on the research. I wouldn’t have taken the time. I learned much. Glad you did do the research. Thank you!
[Reply]
5:33 pm on October 18th, 2007 66
Patanol…
very nice site!
…
10:31 am on April 1st, 2008 67
[...] 9. “Abnormal” Japan [...]
8:07 pm on November 16th, 2008 68
[...] and … http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/74/a5912174.sh... • Found on Google "Abnormal" Japan I wonder why american generations that did not take part in the " … And Korean criticizes [...]