Comments on: Justice for GIs in Korea Still Hard to Find http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/ Serving on the Forgotten Frontier Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:11:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Archives for ERROR: NO ENTRYDATE FOUND :: Korea Law Blog http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-159429 Archives for ERROR: NO ENTRYDATE FOUND :: Korea Law Blog Wed, 14 May 2008 04:44:58 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-159429 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] GI Korea’s ROK Drop for more on the latest installment of the “unfair Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA).” [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] GI Korea’s ROK Drop for more on the latest installment of the “unfair Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA).” [...]

]]> By: ZERO: Lying Korean witness http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-119514 ZERO: Lying Korean witness Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:47:59 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-119514 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Tribalism and lying witnessesBeyond language difficulties is the prospect that South Koreans who give testimony might feel it culturally acceptable to lie, especially if it will increase their chances of winning bigger damages, Carr said.“This culture,” Carr said, “does not place the same value on truth or view the truth through the same prism that Americans do. There is very little social disapproval of making false official statements in order to achieve an objective for your friend or relative or for a tribemate.“Once it breaks down to ‘those Americans’ versus ‘us Koreans,’ many, many Koreans will perceive it as their duty to make sure that the Korean is the winner of the dispute. So there’s a lot of lying when witnesses come forward,” Carr said.“Some people,” said Seoul attorney Jin Hyo-guen, “think that it’s their duty or their job to testify in a way the GI should be punished, severely” and beyond what’s warranted by what “actually happened.”“Of course, there are some persons who think … favorably and amicably” toward U.S. servicemembers, Jin said. “But sometimes not.” Jin has represented numerous U.S. servicemembers in South Korean courts.Stars and Stripes/Pacific edition, Sunday, April 15, 2007I didn't say it , an American did.See also links on this post. The former Korean president called Korea a country of liar.I didn't say it, Korean nobel prize winner did.via lost nomadI repeat, one of the most common things my Korean adult students would say in answer to a general qu... [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] Tribalism and lying witnessesBeyond language difficulties is the prospect that South Koreans who give testimony might feel it culturally acceptable to lie, especially if it will increase their chances of winning bigger damages, Carr said.“This culture,” Carr said, “does not place the same value on truth or view the truth through the same prism that Americans do. There is very little social disapproval of making false official statements in order to achieve an objective for your friend or relative or for a tribemate.“Once it breaks down to ‘those Americans’ versus ‘us Koreans,’ many, many Koreans will perceive it as their duty to make sure that the Korean is the winner of the dispute. So there’s a lot of lying when witnesses come forward,” Carr said.“Some people,” said Seoul attorney Jin Hyo-guen, “think that it’s their duty or their job to testify in a way the GI should be punished, severely” and beyond what’s warranted by what “actually happened.”“Of course, there are some persons who think … favorably and amicably” toward U.S. servicemembers, Jin said. “But sometimes not.” Jin has represented numerous U.S. servicemembers in South Korean courts.Stars and Stripes/Pacific edition, Sunday, April 15, 2007I didn’t say it , an American did.See also links on this post. The former Korean president called Korea a country of liar.I didn’t say it, Korean nobel prize winner did.via lost nomadI repeat, one of the most common things my Korean adult students would say in answer to a general qu… [...]

]]> By: Another GI Gets What’s Coming To Him :: Korea Law Blog http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-61071 Another GI Gets What’s Coming To Him :: Korea Law Blog Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:33:18 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-61071 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] GI Korea’s ROK Drop for more on the latest installment of the “unfair Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA).” [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] GI Korea’s ROK Drop for more on the latest installment of the “unfair Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA).” [...]

]]> By: GI Stateside http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57359 GI Stateside Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:10:24 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57359 I served with SGT Basel in Korea and in Iraq. You couldn't ask for a better person to be next to in a crisis. We have been through hell and back and it seems that his hell is still here. When we both arrived back to the states in 2005 we were diagnosed with PTSD. The only difference is that when our unit disbanded at Fort Carson his orders sent him back to Korea and my orders sent me into Fort Hood. Apparently that made a world of difference in regards to getting treatment we needed from the command. I have been treated with medication and counseling. When talking with Basel over the past year and after numerous attempts on his part, he was not as lucky. Unfortunately, he felt he had no choice and turned to alcohol to forget his experiences in Iraq. His command repeatedly told him that if he persued the issue it would go against him when promotion time came around. I feel really terrible that such a bad thing happened to such a nice guy. I have read the articles out there and talked with his parents. Believe me when I say that he had no idea what happened that night. He was so drunk and with PTSD you experience periods of flashback moments and blackout moments. You could be totally awake but yet not aware of what you are doing. Sgt. Basel may have confessed to the crime but he also stated he did not remember which leads me to believe that this could have all been avoided if Commands in charge of soldiers listen to their cries for help. Now can you say one is guilty when psychologically they can not remember the act in which they are being accused of. Should we place these soldiers in a jail setting instead of getting them the help they need. It seems to me that if our military does not want to deal with these issues they ship the soldiers into areas that they should not be in suchas Korea. Soldiers who experience these disorders need to be kept stateside. Our military is not addressing the issues of PTSD. They choose to keep their eyes closed and send the soldiers to slaughter. I served with SGT Basel in Korea and in Iraq. You couldn’t ask for a better person to be next to in a crisis. We have been through hell and back and it seems that his hell is still here. When we both arrived back to the states in 2005 we were diagnosed with PTSD. The only difference is that when our unit disbanded at Fort Carson his orders sent him back to Korea and my orders sent me into Fort Hood. Apparently that made a world of difference in regards to getting treatment we needed from the command. I have been treated with medication and counseling. When talking with Basel over the past year and after numerous attempts on his part, he was not as lucky. Unfortunately, he felt he had no choice and turned to alcohol to forget his experiences in Iraq. His command repeatedly told him that if he persued the issue it would go against him when promotion time came around. I feel really terrible that such a bad thing happened to such a nice guy. I have read the articles out there and talked with his parents. Believe me when I say that he had no idea what happened that night. He was so drunk and with PTSD you experience periods of flashback moments and blackout moments. You could be totally awake but yet not aware of what you are doing. Sgt. Basel may have confessed to the crime but he also stated he did not remember which leads me to believe that this could have all been avoided if Commands in charge of soldiers listen to their cries for help. Now can you say one is guilty when psychologically they can not remember the act in which they are being accused of. Should we place these soldiers in a jail setting instead of getting them the help they need. It seems to me that if our military does not want to deal with these issues they ship the soldiers into areas that they should not be in suchas Korea. Soldiers who experience these disorders need to be kept stateside. Our military is not addressing the issues of PTSD. They choose to keep their eyes closed and send the soldiers to slaughter.

]]> By: theequalizer http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57168 theequalizer Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:09:41 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57168 this makes me feel less guilty about screwing a korean roommate out of $750. this makes me feel less guilty about screwing a korean roommate out of $750.

]]> By: rokdrop: Justice for GIs in Korea Still Hard to Find http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57075 rokdrop: Justice for GIs in Korea Still Hard to Find Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:26:34 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57075 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/Add this to ever growing list of dubious GI convictions in the Korean court system: [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/Add this to ever growing list of dubious GI convictions in the Korean court system: [...]

]]> By: OneFreeKorea » Not Ready http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57059 OneFreeKorea » Not Ready Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:43:11 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-57059 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Justice for GIs in Korea Still Hard to Find [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] Justice for GIs in Korea Still Hard to Find [...]

]]> By: GI Korea http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-56935 GI Korea Mon, 30 Jul 2007 06:35:12 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-56935 Brendon, Thanks for the great comments. Do you know of any GI ever being found innocent of a crime? I have yet to see any case of a GI being found innocent. It seems the best case one can hope for is that after paying hefty blood money the sentence is suspended. Likewise crimes against GIs also largely go unpunished. Soldiers, have been raped, assaulted, kidnapped, stabbed, etc. not to mention all the petty fraud with many Koreans going unpunished. In some cases the Koreans that commit these crimes are lauded as heroes. This pisses me off more than the soldiers not getting fair trials. Brendon,

Thanks for the great comments. Do you know of any GI ever being found innocent of a crime? I have yet to see any case of a GI being found innocent. It seems the best case one can hope for is that after paying hefty blood money the sentence is suspended.

Likewise crimes against GIs also largely go unpunished. Soldiers, have been raped, assaulted, kidnapped, stabbed, etc. not to mention all the petty fraud with many Koreans going unpunished. In some cases the Koreans that commit these crimes are lauded as heroes. This pisses me off more than the soldiers not getting fair trials.

]]> By: no1uno http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-56520 no1uno Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:34:37 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-56520 Our troops are dying for freedom and democracy in Iraq and Korean courts are denying our troops freedom and democracy, what hypocrisy. Our troops are dying for freedom and democracy in Iraq and Korean courts are denying our troops freedom and democracy, what hypocrisy.

]]> By: Brendon Carr http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-56511 Brendon Carr Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:55:18 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/07/29/justice-for-gis-in-korea-still-hard-to-find/#comment-56511 I'd just like to offer one point of clarification: I've been a foreign legal consultant here in Korea for over 10 years now, and have seen many cases in the civil and criminal spheres. Except if your case pushes a Korean "hot button", foreigners <b><i>can</i></b> expect a fair outcome in the Korean court system, especially in respect of business disputes which are civil claims. Foreign companies sue Korean companies routinely, and win. English teachers cheated out of contractual entitlements sue the hagwon owners, and win. (Judgments may not be enforceable in the end due to quirks which make it harder to break through fraudulent conveyances, but hey -- you won, didn't you?) And foreigners accused of crimes will enjoy the same rights as a Korean accused. (Which is to say, not many rights.) I am 100% convinced that American servicemembers accused of crime in Korea <b>cannot obtain a fair trial</b>, full stop. If accused, they <i>will</i> be convicted in all cases. Their sentences will also be harsher than sentences pronounced on Korean convicts. Servicemembers usually push two Korean hot buttons at once: They represent the Yankee imperialist yoke and remind everyone of the "unfair SOFA", and they are often not white. Koreans are profoundly prejudiced against blacks, Hispanics, and Southeast Asians (plus they hate the Japanese, and resent whites), and presume criminality. So the droopy-drawers GI shows up to the Korean court and gets an extra spanking based on who he is and what he represents, rather than what he's done. Once convicted and sent to the Chonan Youth Correctional Facility, the time served will be infinitely better than in another facility. The GI prisoner gets treated a lot better, mainly because Korean jail is quite shitty and the SOFA affords them certain rights. But part of me wonders whether the Chonan facility is "cushier" than a regular Korean jail because everyone knows that a significant proportion of the prisoners there are guys like PFC Feldmann? I’d just like to offer one point of clarification: I’ve been a foreign legal consultant here in Korea for over 10 years now, and have seen many cases in the civil and criminal spheres.

Except if your case pushes a Korean “hot button”, foreigners can expect a fair outcome in the Korean court system, especially in respect of business disputes which are civil claims. Foreign companies sue Korean companies routinely, and win. English teachers cheated out of contractual entitlements sue the hagwon owners, and win. (Judgments may not be enforceable in the end due to quirks which make it harder to break through fraudulent conveyances, but hey — you won, didn’t you?)

And foreigners accused of crimes will enjoy the same rights as a Korean accused. (Which is to say, not many rights.) I am 100% convinced that American servicemembers accused of crime in Korea cannot obtain a fair trial, full stop. If accused, they will be convicted in all cases. Their sentences will also be harsher than sentences pronounced on Korean convicts.

Servicemembers usually push two Korean hot buttons at once: They represent the Yankee imperialist yoke and remind everyone of the “unfair SOFA”, and they are often not white. Koreans are profoundly prejudiced against blacks, Hispanics, and Southeast Asians (plus they hate the Japanese, and resent whites), and presume criminality. So the droopy-drawers GI shows up to the Korean court and gets an extra spanking based on who he is and what he represents, rather than what he’s done.

Once convicted and sent to the Chonan Youth Correctional Facility, the time served will be infinitely better than in another facility. The GI prisoner gets treated a lot better, mainly because Korean jail is quite shitty and the SOFA affords them certain rights. But part of me wonders whether the Chonan facility is “cushier” than a regular Korean jail because everyone knows that a significant proportion of the prisoners there are guys like PFC Feldmann?

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