Comments on: Blame America Campaign Picks Up Steam http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/ Serving on the Forgotten Frontier Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:41:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: OneFreeKorea » About This Picture http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-61545 OneFreeKorea » About This Picture Mon, 06 Aug 2007 01:56:14 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-61545 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Blame America Campaign Picks Up Steam [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] Blame America Campaign Picks Up Steam [...]

]]> By: usinkorea http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-60002 usinkorea Fri, 03 Aug 2007 21:43:25 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-60002 Stop wasting your time... Stop wasting your time…

]]> By: Tom http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59805 Tom Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:59:33 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59805 Waisted the last 2 minutes of my life reading this long drivel from usinkorea (who by the way isn't in Korea anymore). He must have so much time on his hand to write this long garbage. Honestly, he needs to get laid. Waisted the last 2 minutes of my life reading this long drivel from usinkorea (who by the way isn’t in Korea anymore). He must have so much time on his hand to write this long garbage. Honestly, he needs to get laid.

]]> By: usinkorea http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59603 usinkorea Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:24:47 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59603 These guys are the usual suspects. They are parts of the current ruling party, and that party is still a force in Korean politics, even if splintering and currently trying to find what "new party" it will morph into, but this is one of the weaker primary signs I look for in judging the strength in a spike in anti-US activity. If we start hearing known figures in the GNP coming remotely close to echoing any of these sentiments - even just asking kinda for the US to use more influence - then a warning light will begin to flash in my head......it will be a sign that the GNPers believe average Koreans out in the masses are in tune with what the leftish side of Korean politics is selling in public. When I was teaching Korean adults, it was easy to get a feel for "the society as a whole" --- because I would just listen to what topic each class wanted to discuss. If every class wanted to talk about the same thing - and in the same way -- well.....it was obvious. Being so far away now, it is much harder to get a feel for how notes like these from the usual suspects are playing among the people. The fact that Korean press is running these quotes in major fashion is somewhat of a sign......Since 2003, they have been less forward in parading out quotes from groups like PSPD. You can get a little feel for what is going on in Korean society by seeing where as well as when groups like that are quoted. If The Priest is given a voice early in an article, you should batten down the hatches... Looking at the MacArthur Statue event of, when was it? 2005?, is a good one to see how this works. The media did break with the code of silence to prevent pissing Donald Rumsfeld off and prompting further USFK reformation, but when the quoted from the Goofy Professor and other fringe anti-US leaders, the media painted them in a bad light and gave immediate voice to people in opposition to them. So, today, look at these articles coming out. If people like these GI Korea quotes from are given a voice - quoted - without the reporter offering a negative reaction or giving someone else a quote in rebuttal ---- if the only quotes you are getting are from the typical anti-US types ----- ----- then you can feel confident the Korean press is sympathetic to the message they are selling at that time. Sometimes, that just means the press along likes the message. The press is made up of a good bit of high patriots and leftist sympathisers. But, this isn't the most typical way it works... I think the more typical situation is ---- that the media aligns with the message of the anti-US groups, and quotes from them copiously, because they believe that will sell papers. I think usually, when you see the press quoting from these groups a lot and without rebuttal, it means they believe Korean society is ripe to listen to such a message, and they are usually correct. They usually gauge Korean society's modes fairly well. Sometimes they are able to direct or create the mood. Usually, they play along just like other citizens... Right now, in this initial stage, I'd say we could be in the first stage of a significant upswing. If this press coverage continues like this for another week, then I'll think Korean society is accepting this message. If the GNP starts echoing it in any significant fashion, I will think we are on a tinderbox just waiting for Korean society to feel it has been given the spark to rant and rave. Some people are mentioning 2002. I'm not in Korea, so I can't listen to Korean people up close and personal, but I would doubt this event is going to come close to that level of active street participation. I would doubt right now that it will even get as much "water cooler" bitching about the US as we saw with a string of events in 2000, but this kind of spike is more realistic, I think, with this Afghanistan thing in a post-Rumsfeld US-SK alliance. We'll see... These guys are the usual suspects. They are parts of the current ruling party, and that party is still a force in Korean politics, even if splintering and currently trying to find what “new party” it will morph into, but this is one of the weaker primary signs I look for in judging the strength in a spike in anti-US activity.

If we start hearing known figures in the GNP coming remotely close to echoing any of these sentiments - even just asking kinda for the US to use more influence - then a warning light will begin to flash in my head……it will be a sign that the GNPers believe average Koreans out in the masses are in tune with what the leftish side of Korean politics is selling in public.

When I was teaching Korean adults, it was easy to get a feel for “the society as a whole” — because I would just listen to what topic each class wanted to discuss. If every class wanted to talk about the same thing - and in the same way — well…..it was obvious.

Being so far away now, it is much harder to get a feel for how notes like these from the usual suspects are playing among the people.

The fact that Korean press is running these quotes in major fashion is somewhat of a sign……Since 2003, they have been less forward in parading out quotes from groups like PSPD.

You can get a little feel for what is going on in Korean society by seeing where as well as when groups like that are quoted. If The Priest is given a voice early in an article, you should batten down the hatches…

Looking at the MacArthur Statue event of, when was it? 2005?, is a good one to see how this works. The media did break with the code of silence to prevent pissing Donald Rumsfeld off and prompting further USFK reformation, but when the quoted from the Goofy Professor and other fringe anti-US leaders, the media painted them in a bad light and gave immediate voice to people in opposition to them.

So, today, look at these articles coming out. If people like these GI Korea quotes from are given a voice - quoted - without the reporter offering a negative reaction or giving someone else a quote in rebuttal —- if the only quotes you are getting are from the typical anti-US types —–

—– then you can feel confident the Korean press is sympathetic to the message they are selling at that time.

Sometimes, that just means the press along likes the message. The press is made up of a good bit of high patriots and leftist sympathisers. But, this isn’t the most typical way it works…

I think the more typical situation is —- that the media aligns with the message of the anti-US groups, and quotes from them copiously, because they believe that will sell papers. I think usually, when you see the press quoting from these groups a lot and without rebuttal, it means they believe Korean society is ripe to listen to such a message, and they are usually correct. They usually gauge Korean society’s modes fairly well. Sometimes they are able to direct or create the mood. Usually, they play along just like other citizens…

Right now, in this initial stage, I’d say we could be in the first stage of a significant upswing.

If this press coverage continues like this for another week, then I’ll think Korean society is accepting this message.

If the GNP starts echoing it in any significant fashion, I will think we are on a tinderbox just waiting for Korean society to feel it has been given the spark to rant and rave.

Some people are mentioning 2002. I’m not in Korea, so I can’t listen to Korean people up close and personal, but I would doubt this event is going to come close to that level of active street participation.

I would doubt right now that it will even get as much “water cooler” bitching about the US as we saw with a string of events in 2000, but this kind of spike is more realistic, I think, with this Afghanistan thing in a post-Rumsfeld US-SK alliance.

We’ll see…

]]> By: Bill http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59600 Bill Fri, 03 Aug 2007 08:18:31 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59600 Question for Korea observers: Would Seoul pull its troops from both Afghanistan and Irag now, or even just from Afghanistan (within 30 days for example) in exhange for the release of its citizens if the Talibutchers made that demand, and, just to show it means business should Seoul show any hesitation, murders another hostage or two? As numerous Korean news media have reported in past days on the stress that is beginning to acutely grip the Korean psyche, could public pressure become so intense as to force Seoul into making just such a decision? What might the repercussions be for the American-Korean "alliance"? Would this be yet another victory for al Qaeda, et. al? Question for Korea observers: Would Seoul pull its troops from both Afghanistan and Irag now, or even just from Afghanistan (within 30 days for example) in exhange for the release of its citizens if the Talibutchers made that demand, and, just to show it means business should Seoul show any hesitation, murders another hostage or two? As numerous Korean news media have reported in past days on the stress that is beginning to acutely grip the Korean psyche, could public pressure become so intense as to force Seoul into making just such a decision? What might the repercussions be for the American-Korean “alliance”? Would this be yet another victory for al Qaeda, et. al?

]]> By: Bill http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59561 Bill Fri, 03 Aug 2007 07:19:45 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59561 The Taliban, along with its evil, murderous brethren al Qaeda, aim, as is commonly understood, to creat dissension and greater political devides between America and it's "supposed" allies, and will attempt -and, will likely succeed at- to further inflame Korean passion -Korean passion in general can be over, sometimes way over, the top-and exacerbate anti-American sentiments when in the face-to-face between it and the Korean envoy to Afghanistan to seek its citizens freedom (that was to occur today I believe), there will be just one demand: release of their fellow butchers from American detention. That is not going to happen. The Taliban/al Qaeda know that, and they will cynically play this out with the helpless, desperate Koreans to succeed at just what this blog is entitled. Should the Korean hostages be released for money, the resentment Koreans now have toward the United States will probably become even more widespread and hostile. The Talibastards end up being the only real winners. The Taliban, along with its evil, murderous brethren al Qaeda, aim, as is commonly understood, to creat dissension and greater political devides between America and it’s “supposed” allies, and will attempt -and, will likely succeed at- to further inflame Korean passion -Korean passion in general can be over, sometimes way over, the top-and exacerbate anti-American sentiments when in the face-to-face between it and the Korean envoy to Afghanistan to seek its citizens freedom (that was to occur today I believe), there will be just one demand: release of their fellow butchers from American detention. That is not going to happen. The Taliban/al Qaeda know that, and they will cynically play this out with the helpless, desperate Koreans to succeed at just what this blog is entitled. Should the Korean hostages be released for money, the resentment Koreans now have toward the United States will probably become even more widespread and hostile. The Talibastards end up being the only real winners.

]]> By: GI Korea http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59340 GI Korea Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:00:24 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59340 The original deal was eight Taliban captives for only eight hostages. If they gave up all 21 hostages in return for eight low level prisoners than the US and Karzai may be more willing to cut a deal. However, only exchanging eight for eight means to get the rest of the hostages back the Taliban would probably up the ante. The original deal was eight Taliban captives for only eight hostages. If they gave up all 21 hostages in return for eight low level prisoners than the US and Karzai may be more willing to cut a deal. However, only exchanging eight for eight means to get the rest of the hostages back the Taliban would probably up the ante.

]]> By: Sonagi http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59274 Sonagi Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:10:20 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59274 Previously, the Taliban were insisting they would agree only to an exchange of captives, not payment or ransom. I wonder if US silence, coupled with media rumors of a possible rescue operation, have prodded the Taliban into changing their minds. From what I understand, the Taliban prisoner wish list contained eight names, mostly low-ranking relatives of the men holding the hostages. If Korea is going to end up paying a million dollars in ransom, it would almost be better to let a few grunts go. A million dollars would buy an awful lot of bomb making material and feed an army. Previously, the Taliban were insisting they would agree only to an exchange of captives, not payment or ransom. I wonder if US silence, coupled with media rumors of a possible rescue operation, have prodded the Taliban into changing their minds. From what I understand, the Taliban prisoner wish list contained eight names, mostly low-ranking relatives of the men holding the hostages. If Korea is going to end up paying a million dollars in ransom, it would almost be better to let a few grunts go. A million dollars would buy an awful lot of bomb making material and feed an army.

]]> By: GI Korea http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59236 GI Korea Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:34:58 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59236 Sperwer, thanks Mark, I stopped where I did just because it was getting so long and there was so much more I could have put into the posting to show the absurdity of the spirit of the alliance claim, but I think what I posted is enough for everyone to get the point I'm making. Sperwer, thanks

Mark, I stopped where I did just because it was getting so long and there was so much more I could have put into the posting to show the absurdity of the spirit of the alliance claim, but I think what I posted is enough for everyone to get the point I’m making.

]]> By: Bob Walsh http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59170 Bob Walsh Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:25:55 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2007/08/02/blame-america-campaign-picks-up-steam/#comment-59170 If the Koreans get what they want, then these half-baked missionaries (a 10-day "mission"?) will possibly have these consequences to account for: -Taliban prisoners released to go out and kill again and further destabilize Afghanistan -US and its -real- allies have to launch massive offensives, leading to the inevitable collateral damage and loss of innocent life -US and allied troops are killed in the process A good movie for Koreans to watch right about now would be "Babel", but there is something about their character that does not even contemplate unintended consequences, so I don't know if it will help. If the Koreans get what they want, then these half-baked missionaries (a 10-day “mission”?) will possibly have these consequences to account for:

-Taliban prisoners released to go out and kill again and further destabilize Afghanistan

-US and its -real- allies have to launch massive offensives, leading to the inevitable collateral damage and loss of innocent life

-US and allied troops are killed in the process

A good movie for Koreans to watch right about now would be “Babel”, but there is something about their character that does not even contemplate unintended consequences, so I don’t know if it will help.

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