ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on January 31st, 2008 at 10:09 am

Comparing Red Light Districts in Korea

With the Chosun Ilbo concerned about the “worsening” sex trade outside US military installations in Korea, I thought it would be interesting to compare what GI and Korean red light districts are like. Here is what the sex trade for Koreans is like:

Yes, the red light districts in Korea is nothing more than window shopping for prostitutes. These red light districts are also scattered across the country and usually located near bus and train stations in order to maximize profits from people traveling through the cities. The Dongducheon Red Light district in the above video for example is right next to the city’s bus depot.

Now let’s look at soldier “villes”. For those who have never been to a soldier “villes” in Korea, they are nothing like what you see in the above video. I have posted about the TDC Ville and the Stanleyville before, but the below video gives a better idea of how different the soldier “villes” are compared to Korean red light districts:

Here is how the Stanleyville looks like when the soldiers are out and about:

As you can see the red light districts and the villes are very different. You will never see girls in glass windows in the villes. Prostitution is banned in the villes, which doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on, but it is kept very quiet and most of the time the soldiers spend tens to hundreds of dollars buying “juice” for girls in the ville with nothing to show for it afterwards. The big differences between these areas is readily apparent but the Chosun Ilbo feels the need to inform people about the bogus claim of “worsening” sex trade outside US bases when the sex trade outside US bases is nothing near what is happening in Korean red light districts.

On a side note, in the videos you can see the Hillside Club in Stanleyville, which when pulling CP was one of my favorite areas to stand around and watch things because during the winter time it was humorous to watch the drunks trying to walk up that hill which was often covered in ice. The drunk falling on their ass on the hill may not have been as funny as watching juicy girls with high heels trying to walk on ice, but entertaining nonetheless.

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78
  • mcnut
    3:52 am on January 31st, 2008 1

    as i have said before this is about the only red light a korean male will stop for

    :)

  • GI Korea
    4:00 am on January 31st, 2008 2

    Mcnut, that was to damn funny! :)

  • Sonagi
    4:59 am on January 31st, 2008 3

    Two of my favorite Seoul prostitution scenes:

    The brothels in Chongyangni were located across from the big market. Young, heavily made-up women in tight dresses would beckon ajoshis passing by while ajummas, sometimes with kids in tow, would lug bags of produce.

    Along the road that runs from Chungcheongno to Shinchon, there was a line of brothels that began across from the Ahyeon Police Station and then morphed into a string of wedding shops near Ewha. "Young women's dreams next to the reality of married life," I described the juxtaposed businesses.

  • usinkorea
    7:13 am on January 31st, 2008 4

    About 2 or 3 years ago, when this issue came up somehow out in the public, I would have given my right arm to have someone in South Korea go out and take pictures and videos like this for an eye-witness account of the reality on the ground.

    The prostitution angle is perhaps the best selling anti-US/USFK item in the sense that it gains much and a special kind of support in the US.

    This is a small cottage industry in academia focusing on not just Korea-US historical relations but the history of man-ness and the male "soldier" mentality and the exploitation of women.

    I don't remember the title and don't want to chase a link, but I am sure most readers will be familiar with the book written by a Korean abroad on the history of GI exploitation in South Korea…

    ….anyway…..you can see how the prostitution item exploited in Korea is larger than Korea by noticing even the US Congress has been duped (I say duped) into actually jumping on the anti-US/USFK bandwagon.

    The typical anti-GI message on prostitution of the usual, perpetual, all-encompassing anti-US/USFK groups reaches that far….

    And anybody who hasn't been there to see the reality really can't understand the mind-boggling hypocrisy…

  • Joshua
    7:19 am on January 31st, 2008 5

    The first time I saw one of those places was when I decided to walk to my apartment in Icheon-dong from post one evening. This took me right past Yongsan Station. Suddenly, people were acting strangely … no eye contact, looking downward … cabs cruising by slowly … then the pink lights. Then I saw it.

    Naturally, I turned the corner to gawk. And of course, when the white guy walked past, the girls all started shutting the doors and going inside. In retrospect, I'd have to say that experiencing preemptive discrimination from a bunch of whores might have been one of those moments where my Korea "honeymoon" phase hit stall speed.

    (Of course, it might just have been me.)

    When I went back in April '06, the whorehouses were all still there. Despite the "war on prostitution," there was still a police station right next to them. The only thing that changed was that instead of a station, there was a huge, family-friendly E-Mart right across the street.

  • GI Korea
    7:58 am on January 31st, 2008 6

    I walked right through the Yongsan red light district just this past summer to see the effects of the great prostitution "crackdown" myself. They had some young Korean riot police complete with shields and batons stationed around it that directed me not to enter. I continue to feel bad for these young mandatory service riot policemen. When they are not getting their heads bashed by some North Korean commie sympathizing ajushis they have to stand around and play perimeter guard for a bunch of prostitutes and their police chiefs are the ones getting all the side benefits from this activity.

    Anyway I just walked further down the sidewalk and found an alley way without police and walked right through the area to Yongsan Station. Absolutely nothing had changed despite the great "crackdown", not that I was surprised.

    The great "crackdown" from what I could see existed solely of keeping the foreigners out of the red light districts, which has worked considering the State Department dropped Korea as a sex tourism destination on their recent report.

  • mcnut
    8:13 am on January 31st, 2008 7

    hey the police need to be close by just in case of drunk addushis try to get some action with out paying

    and of course in close proximity so they can arrest any foreigners who dare pay for p___y

  • Steve
    11:27 pm on January 31st, 2008 8

    This has emerged as a common theme in certain media, not just in Korea, The Las Vegas Sun newspaper's online website has a story about a similar smear job done on Vegas.

    Look for the article:
    Bewildered, academics pore over sex-trade hysteria (They try to figure out how they got steamrolled)

    "…And, Comella said, the presentation of sex workers as women who are universally exploited, trafficked, raped and coerced also plays perfectly into the commercial aspect of the media, which must sensationalize and oversimplify if they’re going to sell."

  • usinkorea
    6:29 am on February 1st, 2008 9

    What amazed me about all of this isn't the red light districts. It was the totality of the sex industry in Korea. What amazed me is how much you would miss much of it if someone didn't point it out to you — the room salons and tea delivery girls and public bathes and love hotels and so on. It is such a huge industry going on in front of everybody's eyes and all the Koreans know it….

    …..why American Congressmen can't get clued in, I have no idea. (American scholars don't want to be….)

    That being said, however, there should be clear and honest talk on the use of foreigners in clubs all over Korea (including near US bases).

    And pressure should be brought to bare on the government….

    …..the South Korean government……

    Or maybe give US MPs the right to arrest the bar owners and managers and staff and give the US government the right to control Korea's visa process for immigrant "entertainers"…

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  • Juicy Slayer
    8:30 pm on February 28th, 2008 12

    Meh, lol….my first weekend here was spent in seoul ( got here around christmas, so i had alot of time off), and it didnt take long, for me to somehow travel into the redlight districts of yongson…..lol, crackdown, and this crap about military members and prostitution..whatever…its a joke…even right now down here in kunsan prostitution sitll goes on these bars….

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  • CalmSeas
    4:41 am on August 30th, 2008 16

    Until the U.S.military can controlthe prostitution that goes on outside base in any country, we will continue to have tyhe host of problems that have become persistent in the past decade or so. Luckily I retired long befor ethe PC crowd got involved with me sowing my wild seeds. Ha!

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  • Huh?
    8:47 pm on September 20th, 2008 18

    Who are you people trying to push american values onto a society that is much older than the usa?? Why does the korean system of prostitution bother you?? If you don't like it here in korea or can't adjust to the way koreans live their lives in their country, then leave. We don't need you here, we don't want you here, and it's quite obvious you have zero respect for this country and its culture. Enjoy the freedoms here in the republic, such as prostitution, because in the "free" america, you will go to jail for it. Like George Carlin said, "selling is legal, [bone]ing is legal, but selling [bone]ing is illegal". Only in america…

  • CalmSeas
    4:31 am on September 21st, 2008 19

    "Huh?

    3:47 am on September 21st, 2008 18 Who are you people trying to push american values onto a society that is much older than the usa??Why does the korean system of prostitution bother you?? "

    I think you are missing the meat of the general concensus here. Hardly anyone who has posted here is against prostitution…they are only sick and tired of being the scape goat for the ills of Korean society, and the convenient "Punching Bag" for any perceived outrage that Korean society wishes to suddenly adopt.

    Trying to push American values on Koreans??? Please give us a legitimate example of where we have tried to force American values on Koreans?

    I think it is exactly the opposite…Koreans are "Embracing" certain American values at an alarming rate, thus you see Koreans rushing to learn the English language, etc.

    You want us to leave? No Flying Doggy Sh#t…that is exactly what many posters have offered. If the U.S. military is NOT wanted here, then Yes, many would agree with you that they should depart Korea to a country that is more welcoming.

    As for the rest of us "Cats & Dogs…" I hardly think that any of us actually have visions of staying here forever…so be careful for what you wish for…You just might get it. :cool:

    So get on out there, get Soju'd up and find that ROK DROP Poster girl behind the glass. You've earned it. :lol:

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  • Jacob
    4:03 pm on October 21st, 2008 22

    Hello,

    the bailout…sex for money on the open streets with windows to view the girls. So the American govt. knows and the Korean govt. knows. But for some reason it is allowed. Yet all hell in the American media takes place when an American soldier was questioned. So Fox News can go to hell. Leave us the hell alone. Crack down on the American govt for letting the Korean govt get away with it. And if they continue why not let the American soldiers do it? it's their money! What is really wrong with it anyway? So many cultures and countries allow it…Either do somehting about it or leave it alone

  • mike
    6:12 pm on September 14th, 2009 23

    Do GI's make enough money to pay for their services these days – and approx how much is it? Seems "the problem" would be self regulating if it costs too much money.

    In my days there, it was a fixed price of $10 for overnight and $5 for less than that. This was the price all over korea too, so you gotta wonder who was setting and enforcing those prices for GI customers – and for so long too?

    It was paradise for GI's. The mamasahns enjoyed the business because they took most of the money. The poor girls got the short end and were badly exploited. The mamasahns gave pennies to the girls to pay off their 'debts' that trapped them in their employment. I heard alot of horror stories from the girls that pissed me off, but there was nothing i could do constructively except to observe and take notes. I still have a very low opinion of those particular mamasahns.

  • mike
    7:04 pm on September 14th, 2009 24

    I just got this prompt after my last post in this thread, saying:

    "Duplicate comment detected; it looks as though you’ve already said that!"

    I could have said this before, but dont remember where – maybe not with the same details. It might have been up to two years ago too. If i dont get an answer, i'll probably ask it again in another couple years, just to satisfy this curiosity.

    That prompt started another curiosity now – what software recognizes the language in prior comments and can it count instances of whatever it can recognize? Thats pretty neat.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    10:32 pm on September 14th, 2009 25

    Akismet is the name of the spam program used by WordPress to detect any possible spam comments.

  • mike
    11:21 am on September 15th, 2009 26

    Thanks. What about the approx cost to GI's for an overnight? I'm not interested in doing it – i'm just curious to learn how everything has progressed, including that.

    I'm sure to be just as surprised aa how people will pay excessive fees for entertainment here, like the prices to attend a football game, including the parking fee and buying one beer.

    The red light GI customers are likely to come from the same pool that pay any price for entertainment. How often GI's can afford to do that on their salary can give an idea how much that self regulation is affecting the industry these days. If its too expensive then it would have to be more or less limited to fewer clubs – and thus have less exposure to koreans. Not like it was in the 70's, when you couldn't miss the existence of that business if you tried. Clubs that catered to koreans were practically non existent in the 2nd id areas..

  • mike
    12:15 pm on September 15th, 2009 27

    "And anybody who hasn’t been there to see the reality really can’t understand the mind-boggling hypocrisy…"

    """""""""""""""

    I wouldn't doubt this is true, so it sounds like the koreans are venting their feelings about past frustrations that they had keep pent up for too many years, but were unable to express. The korean dictators made sure the populace didn't do or say anything to upset the americans. The result was alot of angry looks from only the koreans that had the closest proximity to american camps. The frowns and scowls turned into smiles the farther you traveled, because the sentiments weren't allowed to be broadcasted. It sounds like they're truly free to broadcast these things today and thats nurtured a rage about the past enough to make it retroactive with the present.

    That said, it would be understandable why they'd exaggerate the present to be the past and why that would be upsetting to GI's there today, who are innocent and know nothing about it. Its not a good way for the koreans to behave – rather, imo, it shows a lack of maturity over a perception of having been humiliated. They are a new country afterall and haven't expressed their new pride well enough. (They probably project worse blame on the japanese for their past experiences too).

    Somebody has to be the adult in these situations and be at least cognizant of all the factors affecting their sensitivities, if good relations are truly desired. Right or wrong, perceptions aren't formed out of thin air. If there isn't a desire to understand their sensitivities, then theres really not enough desire for good relations. It would be too arrogant to expect they should forget about their pent up feelings and not very intelligent to believe our presence in an increasingly hostile nation serves our national interests. –

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    2:50 pm on September 15th, 2009 28

    The korean dictators made sure the populace didn’t do or say anything to upset the americans.

    We can quibble with this. If you read Park Chung-Hee's speeches and published works in the 2 or 3 books done to collect them, you'll see him stoking much this idea of "fatherland/motherland", and he was not above using ultra-nationalism to put pressure on the United States when the US was putting pressure on him to reform – either in terms of economic and military development or in terms of politicial reform. He also used strong nationalism to pressure the US when he didn't like America's approach to North Korea (or Japan).

    Another area that challenges this quote is the fact that the only groups of Koreans who have shown routinely and consistently a pro-US or good feeling about the US-SK relationship have been —– part of the generations that have the most experience with the relationship —- those from the Japanese colonial period and the Korean War period. It wasn't until the generations of the late 1970s and especially the late 1980s that you see this "pent up anger" over the US relationship.

    I think mike's idea has some merit and is certainly a defensible position, but it can also be challenged but you don't hear that many people doing it – at least I haven't….

  • LORDOFE2
    5:27 pm on September 15th, 2009 29

    <del datetime="2009-09-16T10:00:12+00:00">Wrong again new-fish</del>. All Koreans are anti-American. It just depends on degree. <del datetime="2009-09-16T10:00:12+00:00">New-fish, you got a lot to learn about Korea.</del> <del datetime="2009-09-16T10:00:12+00:00">When you jump out of the well, I expect you to flap around for a bit, so why not accept some help.</del>

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    9:05 pm on September 15th, 2009 30

    How about leaving? Anyone who has been around this blog knows you don't have a clue.

    I'm thinking this is a more sophisticated version of sillysally. Sounds odd, right? But think about it guys — I can't remember the last time someone came around here offering this low a mentality and understanding, but the English is fluent, and he can at least Google to find info on topic when someone comes back at him when he says completely idiotic and insulting stuff – like with zenkimchi – who had people coming over because they felt they had to defend him – which is probably just what dickhead wanted…(Or for example, calling me new fish and other idiotic, sophmoric names when the comments he is responding to clearly show I've read or experienced Korean society and history for years….and when I fail to respond to the diapers-mentality taunts or simply delete it outright, he comes back elsewhere with just a straight comment. Then when I respond in kind to that – he comes back with juvenile stuff again —– seeming clearly to be doing nothing more than fishing time and again for a flame war….)

    From now on, until GI Korea tells me to stop, every time he writes something in response to me that shows a complete ignorance of who I am and what I've said or what he himself has said, solely for the purpose to gain a reaction — my reaction is going to be to delete him….

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    9:57 pm on September 15th, 2009 31

    You have comment moderation authority so feel free to moderate any comments not following the established commenting policy.

  • ChickenHead
    11:05 pm on September 15th, 2009 32

    US, US, USinKorea…

    This is an easy problem to solve without sounding like the spaz kid huffing and puffing to the teacher because little Billy called him a name.

    Just ignore low-effort insulting comments designed only to make you huff and puff like the spaz kid.

    See? Easy.

    They really will go away without the reward of a gasping and stuttering response.

    And, if they don't, who really cares. Nobody thinks less of you because someone spent 15 seconds typing out a few baseless sentences specifically designed to free your seething indignancy.

    Now, if someone pokes at you by expressing reasonable ideas in a logical fashion, you pretty much have to respond or they are the clear "winner".

    But, if someone throws out low-quality insults, which everyone (except you, it seems) knows are meaningless, any response on your part (unless it is clever) makes you the definite "loser"…

    …and the degree of loserness increases with the length of the response.

    And the loserness is doubled if the response shows obvious hyperventilation-accentuated irritation.

    And the loserness is tripled if the response is whiny and full of hurt little feelings.

    And the loserness is quadrupled if you have to resort to deleting comments that nobody, except you, takes seriously…

    …although if they are serious enough to be angrily deleted, they might signal the need for some introspection.

    And, to top it all off, the loserness is squared if, in adjoining sentences, you squeal about being called "new fish and other idiotic, sophmoric (sic) names" yet use "dickhead" as your descriptor…

    …although, if intentional, it is very clever irony… in sort of a self-mocking kind of way.

    Anyway, that is that.

    I only get involved because I don't really like to see non-spam posts deleted… being that, more often than not, posts have been deleted to protect fragile little feelings rather than because they were clogging up the server.

    And that mentality breeds a lot of whiny little people with fragile little feelings.

  • LORDOFE2
    12:02 am on September 16th, 2009 33

    UsinKorea,..please let me go first.. then I ask that you just think about what I said before you reply. UsinKorea, lets start over again. I have read what you wrote, and really did some soul searching. I think you are right, my questions do "show a complete ignorance of who I am (you are)." For that I am truly sorry. This is a genuine apology, and I hope you can accept it.

    Yes I did question you about a few things and in doing so, I didn't show proper respect of 'who you are'. I do know one thing, you can't turn cheese back into milk and put that back in the teat of a cow. And you can't unhurt feelings. Hurt feeling linger like the hot coals on your heart. New fish was an uncaring and ignorant thing for me to call you. I was the "new fish" for not knowing and understanding 'who you are'. I was cold and fishlike. It was thoughtless of me to cause you pain, but I won't ask you to dismiss your feelings.

    I will take OWNERSHIP of what I did. I ask forgiveness, but I don't expect you to forget what I did.

    What has happened between us has changed me. What I was doing was wrong and I know it now. Yes, I admit, I knew it before, but I was being selfish, and uncaring of how you feel. I should of thought about you, and your feelings instead of myself. I can’t prove everything in this letter, but I ask that search in your heart for forgiveness. If you can’t do it for me, do it for Jesus.

    For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14-15)

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    9:43 am on September 16th, 2009 34

    Now, if someone pokes at you by expressing reasonable ideas in a logical fashion, you pretty much have to respond or they are the clear “winner”.

    But, if someone throws out low-quality insults, which everyone (except you, it seems) knows are meaningless, any response on your part (unless it is clever) makes you the definite “loser”… —– I only get involved because I don’t really like to see non-spam posts deleted… being that, more often than not, posts have been deleted to protect fragile little feelings rather than because they were clogging up the server.

    Fair enough, and I usually agree on having wide-ranging comments and holding your hand at deleting comments – but disagree when it comes to a certain level — especially when it has nothing to do with the topic of the original post and is mostly about a running gun battle across posts throughout a site.

    Other objections to your point — future readers…Not everyone that comes to a post on a site through google will be consistent readers and will have no background to work with to judge validity.

    Next, just letting the lowest denomiator quotes decorate a site lowers the value of the comment section. If you just mindlessly watch the weeds grow, there is a chance they'll choke out the rest of the vegetation. Free ranging debate is good on a site, but just allowing unfocused, unrelated, and juvenile attacks is a step too far, in my opinion. Long time readers here are lucky that we haven't seen much of that over the years. Even sillysally might have been largely seeking to jerk chains, but you could get some meat out the arguments most of the time….

    And, to top it all off, the loserness is squared if, in adjoining sentences, you squeal about being called “new fish and other idiotic, sophmoric (sic) names” yet use “diickheead” as your descriptor…

    …although, if intentional, it is very clever irony… in sort of a self-mocking kind of way.

    Fine enough but disagree again. When certain terminology is earned, it is warranted in usage. I've made an ass of myself here and there over the years after making so many frequent comments, I can't help but accept it if/when someone points one out. So, I don't feel I lower myself in name calling if I think the name fits and the majority of the audience will likely agree…

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    10:02 am on September 16th, 2009 35

    Also, you missed what for me was the interesting item and why I decided to replay rather than delete it: how is his method better than sillysally's at accomplishing the mission. It's been a long time since we've seen ss around, but you (the plural you) probably remember the style and effect usually achieved. I find LordofE2 to be better at his chore than ss was overall, and it is at least somewhat interesting as to why.

    — Which reminds me of this guy in high school I knew who said he had read a book on either the CIA or military techniques for — being effectively annoying….I think maybe some here might know what book he was talking about, because I think I've heard it referenced once or twice here over the years…..I couldn't figure out why he'd need a book, but now, I can picture it more easily…

  • mike
    8:13 am on September 17th, 2009 36

    I can only speak to what i saw with park-chung hee in my year there and will admit it wasn't enough. (I only recently learned why conspiracy theories of american involvement in park's death had some chance of being credible with people).

    I dont think park's relationship with the americans would have made a difference with how the korean civilians under him were forced to behave toward us. They certainly weren't allowed to express the kind of sentiments they do today, so they would have existed as a subdued and frustrated minority. Thats why it looks like those people could be loudly shouting at ghosts of their past and possibly influencing others – especially the youth, who could single them out as elders to respect.

    There certainly were alot of koreans that expressed good sentiments about us in the early 70's – and believed americans to be every good thing imaginable. You could rely on that sentiment being reality only from koreans that didn't live in the immediate vicinity of the american camps though. The negative sentiments were a minority and weren't broadcasted to the rest of the population. So these american haters would have been a small minority who perceived a suffering from american disrespect toward them and their country – which wasn't imagined. If you need some examples of the sick things the immature troops did toward koreans, i'll put on my raincoat and comply. It might be what the koreans have been relating in their media to stoke anti-us feelings.

    Young amreicans can be our worse ambassadors. I was the same kind of arrogant ugly american as a teen when living in the philippines, so had the opportunity of growing out of that. By the time i got to korea, i had also lived in england (in a navy family) so could pay respects without sacrificing pride. . I was immediately at odds with the people in my small unit when riding in the truck to the unit and someone spit down on an old man as we passed by slowly. It caused him to lose control of his bicycle and crash down a slope. From shock, i asked him why the hell he did that and learned "he's just a korean – dude!". That was the majority opinion in my small unit. So i spent all of my off time away from there (3 days on the Z and 3 days off meant a 3-day weekend every three days, as long as you left the camp when off duty – stanley). Blacks were probably the worst abusers of koreans – and as usual, some were the complete opposite. Actually, that was a very strange time in history for blacks in the army, overseas. The white commanders seemed confused at times about how to maintain cohesion. I truly expected the north would've overrun us if they came across at that time – not just on the Z, but farther down the usual corridors than was anticipated as possible – past camp casey, for sure. I easily digress about that….)

    As you can see in our own media, a minority number of haters can sound like a majority, the louder they shout about something = and unfortunately, they can have some influence with the fence sitters too. The former pro-american koreans might be prone to appear against us on principles, if they dont like something in our foreign policies or hear about current day disrespect from their guests. I dont know what degree the desire we stay there has worn out with them. I would bet though that the ones giving weight to anti-american sentiments would include the frustrated, pent-up haters from the 70's.

    I dont blame them for hating because i know americans would feel exactly the same if they were treated the way they were. Its just natural – and should be expected they might relate that past in the media today because they couldn't get resolution for it back then.. What is not natural is blaming the past sins on the americans there today. That is just something common with overly frustrated or immature people. The policies and the people have changed, so they'd be wrong to judge like that.

    If they act badly, then how you react will be a measure of your character. Only the mature adults will resist being defensive and or letting pride dictate behavior. That would only erode remaining sympathies. I suspect the commanders there have made an art of sucking up and not letting things get to them.

    But as someone pointed out (dont remember where) the anti-us media that most upsets the (too)proud americans isn't the kind of media that has much credence with the majority of koreans. So, what pisses you guys off the most in their media may not be a shared sentiment with most koreans.

    They might be quick to jump on the anti-us bandwagon though if they perceive their american 'guests' aren't being respectful of their country or constantly opining negatively about them in their blogs (are you aware of any like that? ;) We would feel the same way, if not worse, when visitors are disrespecting america on our soil. I think that would be a somewhat natural reaction.

  • mike
    8:58 am on September 17th, 2009 37

    Test: I've pressed submit comment several times now and even got another dupe comment message, but still haven't seen my latest post appear on my screen – even after flushing the cache and reloading. (might it be too long??) So, sorry if some dupes appear on other's screens (if so, pls del the dupes, thx).

  • mike
    9:18 am on September 17th, 2009 38

    Ya, i might be learning from deduction that theres a character limit for posts. My latest one wont appear, so it might exceed a limit. I've saved it and will try to condense it down later.

    (It would have appeared before #27)

    Nowhere in it did i ask about the prices charged in the red light districts though, and believe that would be relevant info for any discussion about comparing red light districts.

    So i'll use this opportunity to ask it again. Approx what are the GI's (realistically) charged these days, vs the korean customers in their areas? How big can that "problem" be if its too overpriced?

  • mike
    10:05 am on September 17th, 2009 39

    Never mind – my comment appears as a branch of post #4. The first duplicate can be deleted because the second probably has a correction or two.

    i just reviewed the comparison videos and think the reporter needs to present more realistic data – like recording the soldier villes when everyone isn't asleep – at night would be realistic for both. I remember seeing drive-by videos of those neon windows in seoul, when they're fully populated and take up the whole block. (It may have been on current tv?) They're trying to hide from the cameras, but you can see it would probably still support your point – a lil better.

    Wots this – a counter complaint to the negative media? Are these the koreans-only businesses?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEdAwMpync

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    2:41 pm on September 17th, 2009 40

    I don't have a lot of time, or health, today to read the comment in full and reply in full, but I think we're in a similar ballpark. I do believe from reading about Park Chung-Hee and the dissident movement in the 70s that Park used nationalism as a pressure tool on the US in Korea. It wasn't a central policy in his platform, but it was something he'd occassionally bring out. The dissident movement was not insignificant in the 70s as well especially as the decade moved on. I mean, things did get so bad, his CIA chief blew his head off. And elements of that movement were openly anti-US – being founded not just on anger over Park's authoritarian rule but on hardcore communist ideology too…

  • CS
    12:43 pm on January 16th, 2010 41

    Camp Laguardia 88-89, the going rate then in the ville outside the gate was $10 short time, $20 overnight, plus however many $5 drinks you bought for the girl.

    Camp Stanley 92-93, I wasn't nearly as…uh, "active", this tour. :razz: However, I recall it being relatively the same.

  • Mike
    1:13 pm on January 16th, 2010 42

    Thanks for that info, CS. Its hard to imagine the prices were still that low in the 90's.

    Its not hard to imagine the prices being sky high today though. We wont know till someone living there recently is brave enough to venture a guesstimate of their prices. I believe this is relevant to understanding the depth of 'the problem', from us folks who dont have direct access to that info. It just makes sense that if the prices are too high for GI's then there would be little visibility of them patronizing those places. Unless their salaries have increased enough to handle the expense? If prices were still low, then i'd expect a far larger GI presence in girly bars, resulting in more opportunities for koreans to complain, if they're inclined to do that. If prices are too high, then the problem is regulating itself.

    If the topic doesn't surface very often in the korean press, then i'd guess they aren't seeing many opportunities to complain about the GI's and girly bars. What i'm led to believe is the anti-american koreans will use anything possible to complain about the USA, so no complaining heard means something. I believe these are the missing details of this reporting that are pertinent to understanding the subject.

  • silentgrayfellow
    4:33 pm on February 22nd, 2010 43

    Mike,

    Things aren't what they used to be. I was here '87-'89 when a lot of the "KSTA" clubs around U.S. bases were off limits to Koreans, and prostitution was essentially condoned.

    These days prostitution is definitely not condoned, and any GI that gets caught up soliciting or otherwise engaged in pay-for-play could be facing UCMJ punishment.

    "Service members found in an off-limits area or participating in a prohibited activity will be in violation of USFK Regulation."

    Back to your question. I'm not sure you can even get an overnight anymore. Regarding "short times", the price probably varies by location. I have been propositioned a couple of times while in bars, and based on those conversations I imagine that you would have to pay in the neighborhood of $300 plus pay for the hotel room. On top of thise you would likely be conned into paying for several very expensive drinks beforehand. Like most things, the price is probably negotiable. I never went down that road far enough to determine the "real" price of those kinds of services.

  • Thomas Lee
    1:51 am on April 6th, 2010 44

    86-88 prices were $20 overnight, $10 short-time. If it was between paydays, sometimes you could get an overnight for $10 or $15. But if there was a ship on port-call anywhere in country, the towns up north were abandoned as buses would be chartered to take the girls to the port-call where they could make $100 for a short time. The Navy guys always screwed things up! :-)

  • Thomas Lee
    1:53 am on April 6th, 2010 45

    Just before, during and after the '88 Olympics, prices went up substantially all over the country.

  • Manchusoldier79
    3:16 am on April 6th, 2010 46

    never fails, let a bunch of leftist start running things from the media to the Military, and a guy cant get laid, have a smoke, or a shot of Soju! Bottom Line, without the sex trade for the last 60+ years, the Korean Penninsula would still look like it did in 1950 by and large, because the money would not have flowed as readily to jumpstart thier economic, technological, and building/export booms! From The Ho Houses to Hyundai, its all intertwined, and without the good ole GI, well, it would all be moot!

    Dale

  • J.
    10:24 am on May 3rd, 2010 47

    From 88-89, I was stationed at Camp Red Cloud and spent a little time "exploring" near Laguardia (among other area posts). I went to Stanley every so often and that was my first experience of a real "ville" located near a base. The others just weren't the same type places, but still enjoyable.

    Back in those days, CRC was headquarters for the Combined Forces Command, ROK-US Combined Field Army (now disbanded from what I gather). And, Camp Casey was headquarters for 2ID (I think CRC is now?).

    My unit was attached to 17th Aviation Brigade and stationed at CRC; another company was in Yongsan with brigade headquarters — the lucky sobs(!) — but, we had "benefits" too. Such as when 2ID was on manuevers and GI's restricted from the "villes" (and we weren't :razz: )… Stanley in particular. I recall going there several times under the aforementioned circumstances and having the run of the place! LOL Quite a few of the clubs closed during those manuevers as well, so the place could seem fairly deserted too.

    I worked on the mountain in the distance behind CRC at flight operations center (FOC North). The camp or outpost was manned by ROK soldiers. A bit of trivia: When driving there from CRC each day assigned for duty at the FOC, we passed by the location where the old post the M.A.S.H. series was based on used to be.

    On our trip there one day, we ran over a snake soon after stopping at a small Korean store near the base of the mountain for supplies. A ROK Airforce sergeant who worked with us asked the driver to stop the truck. He hops out, runs around to pick up the dead snake and throws it in the back.

    Upon arriving, ROK Army guard opens the gate, we pass through and pull up to FOC building. AF Sgt. Kim (maybe Park or Lee, I don't remember which, it's only been ~22 years!) goes missing temporarily. He comes back a little later saying the ROK Army guys would be having the snake in a soup as a treat for lunch. :shock: Yum-yum! Good for "stamina" don't ya' know?! ;-)

    Another time I remember seeing a ROK soldier having apparently upset his superiors. They had a building located slightly higher on the mountain top with a concrete path/drive leading up to it. This guy was on his knees crawling up the hill: Han-na, Dul, han-na, dul (one, two, one, two) Those guys were hardcore. :twisted:

    Sorry about being "off topic"… so many, many memories… one thought leads to another.

  • KoreaTeacher
    12:21 pm on May 25th, 2010 48

    I met a former American soldier who said that his recruiter actually kept a supply of pictures of Korean women in order to show people who were thinking of joining and promise that they would have adventures if they joined the military.

  • KoreaTeacher
    12:26 pm on May 25th, 2010 49

    SO you pay for sex… You should be very proud that only an exploited woman would have you…

  • KoreaTeacher
    12:28 pm on May 25th, 2010 50

    Korea became prosperous because of hard work and investment capital (not money paid by perverted US soldiers to prostitutes).

  • Retired GI
    12:47 pm on May 25th, 2010 51

    :lol: ROFLMAO :lol:

  • Hamilton
    1:24 pm on May 25th, 2010 52

    Sounds like a lie Koreans tell amongst themselves. You don't know any soldiers let alone Americans. However, you sure as heck were holding a candle and beating police during the Mad Cow nonsense riots.

  • Rei
    4:57 pm on May 27th, 2010 53

    You never met me so how do you say to know so much?

  • Manchusoldier79
    3:34 am on May 28th, 2010 54

    Your full of baloney! The "investment Capital" you speak so glowingly of came directly out of the pockets of the so called "perverted soldiers" from the "buy me drinky" skeezers, and thier mamasans/papsans handlers. It was and is still a growth industry. Just because you recently decided to call yourself an expert on the ROK and have spent a few months teaching english in Itaewan sure as the devil doesnt make you an expert on this subject, take your Liberal butt back to Canada or Martha's Vineyard or whatever Communistic crap hole you crawled out of and STFU! When you can so much as find on a map the exact spot where my Platoon Sgt, SFC Thomas L. Anderson was killed in an illegal, unmarked minefield on 12-7-1979 then come tell us all about your expertise on all things Kimchi. Oh, I forgot, you cant do that, youv never had the stones or the brains to serve in the ignored war or anywhere else, you just take for granted the freedoms heros like SFC Anderson and thousands of others have bought for you, all the while looking down your pointy, biggoted nose at those who paid for them! Do the world a favor and off yourself, the sooner you do, the sooner we can start cleaning up the shallow end of the gene pool!

  • Rei
    3:57 am on May 28th, 2010 55

    Saying that Korea developed because of sex-trading is wrong and disgusting. Banks from all over the world invested in Korea during the past several decades and Koreans worked very hard to become very productive laborers. Economic development comes from banks and exports NOT menial and lowering services for soldiers.

  • ManchuSoldier79
    9:45 pm on May 28th, 2010 56

    Not only is saying it developed from the money made in the sex trade to GI's 100% accurate, it shows how naive and infinately ignorant you are about everything in Korea, especially how the international banking system truly works. The money from most GI's paycheck went into the economy in the bars and brothels, then the owners of said establishments used it to expand that and other business, etc etc etc. As the US built up the military prescence, and the money flowed even more readily, becoming a torrent of USD's which again ,was poured back into the Korean economy in development, and growth; only THEN did the banks start to take notice! If not for the flood of US Service memebers, thier needs, wants, and excesses being catered to readily by Korean nationals of thier own free will, the banks wouldnt have put a solitary dime into Korea, much less helped it become what it is today! If you doubt me, then look at Somalia, Ethiopia, etc. NO, my woefully ill informed leftist dipstick, if the US Servicemember were not the Engine pulling the Korean money train, then it would have never even left the station, let alone arrived at its current destination! And dont ever make the mistake of coming off to a "Kimchi GI" in person the way you have here from the safety of your keyboard, especailly not someone who has lost someone they knew and cared about to the hands of the communist north like I did, in defense of a nation of ungrateful twits now overrun by leftist square heads from America's psuedo communistic elite and canada; THat wouldnt be the smartes thing your pompous, simpleminded, arrogant, elitist butt ever did! LOL, but I would pay a years salary to watch what happened to you, and if I could videtape it, I could make a fortune selling copies of it at the VFW!

  • Rei
    11:08 pm on May 28th, 2010 57

    You must be very weak, feeble, and insecure to be making these insults and threats :cool: Also, you are completely ignorant about economics. Korea developed for the same reasons as Japan and China that is to say, protectionist trade policies, foreign investment, and export-focused development programs.

    Of course it is a waste of time saying this to you as you are clearly just a dirty old man trying to justify what he did to women.

  • Rei
    11:09 pm on May 28th, 2010 58

    It is good for Korea to be so dropped. China is doing much better than Thailand right now.

  • Rei
    11:14 pm on May 28th, 2010 59

    Yay!

  • Rei
    12:00 am on May 29th, 2010 60

    haha :lol:

  • Retired GI
    12:36 am on May 29th, 2010 61

    Rei, you are clearly a child when it comes to understanding how Korea became what it is now. Every country had to lean to walk. To reject how far Korea has come and how difficult it was, is to reject the efforts of those that came before you. Korea was not always a glowing country. Nor was America, or any other country. All had to walk before they could run. You would reject this. What a small mind you must have.

  • guitard
    1:48 am on May 29th, 2010 62

    Koreateacher – please stick to one ID per thread. OK?

  • Manchusoldier79
    3:18 am on May 29th, 2010 63

    You should learn to respect your elders. Especially since Im probably your daddy anyway! It suddenly occured to me that al this hostility must be because you are the offspring of some horney GI and some nasty Kimchi whore who allowed herself to get knocked up and then didnt get taken to the land of the big PX. Whats wrong did mommy make you hide in the corner of the hootch and watch while thousands of nameless GI's paid 2000 won each to do unspeakable things to her as she loved it? is that the reason you frigid? is that the reason your gay? Is that the reason you you have such blind hatred for Americans? Oh well, thats too bad, fact is the best sex I ever had was here in the good ole USA With the American women who give it away, not some dryed up skank of a kimchi slut with an inbread, halfwit of a kid eating kimbop in the corner with the won Id toss them because I felt sorry for them.

  • Rei
    12:10 pm on May 29th, 2010 64

    I don't think that Manchu was really a soldier or even in Korea. As for GI, I am not denying that there were many disgusting Koreans who sold women to racist yankee perverts but that was a purely bad thing that did nothing but build-up crime. The economic development came from from international banks, export-focused development policies, and protectionist trade rules. These also helped China to develop without the need for any perverted old soldiers to give money to local criminals. It is sick and evil that American perverts actually expect Koreans to feel grateful for subsidizing human-traffickers who are the very worst kind of human beings. If you knew anything about economics you would not say such things.

  • Thomas Lee
    4:23 am on May 30th, 2010 65

    REI,

    I was a soldier in Korea for three years and for 20 years I have been an on again off again resident of Korea in a civilian business capacity. I'm curious your thoughts toward the Korean "perverts" that frequent "Businessmen" clubs, Room Salons, etc. There is NO shortage of Korean "barber" shops, massage parlors, etc. that cater to Koreans only so you really need to look in the mirror before calling Americans perverts as if they're the only ones that participate in Korea's sex industry.

    A matter-of-fact…. Yongjugol, once a very popular juicy bar town for US Soldiers is now VERY popular with Korean businessmen – almost exclusively

  • Hamilton
    9:34 am on May 30th, 2010 66

    Interesting that KT requires a word of support from herself as Rei. I can't see that working in her classroom, then again I'm sure her students know she is full of it. What a moooorooon!

  • Korea Teacher
    12:16 pm on May 31st, 2010 67

    I switched handles only in hopes of beating censorship and never said anything to support myself but only continued in my opinions! I even made a post that against your claims about me with the new handle to make very understandable that Rei was the same person. But just for you I will bring back the old handle for this post. It is good to see that you agree with the Manchu. Do you have a real life or do you just enjoy insulting various strangers from the safety of the internet. As for Thomas, I DID criticize the disgusting Koreans who traded women, a fact which you would know if you actually read my post before commenting.

  • Ahmad Burgett
    12:56 pm on November 29th, 2010 68

    Useful and fantastic things you have here. Keep it coming! I'm usually looking to read on that topic.

  • Seoul korea red light district | Leasembe
    11:24 am on December 30th, 2010 69

    [...] Comparing Red Light Districts in Korea | ROK DropGI Korea 2:58 pm on January 31st, 2008 6. I walked right through the Yongsan red light district just this past summer to see the effects of … [...]

  • Chris Hiler
    11:27 am on July 25th, 2011 70

    Thanks for posting these tour walk through videos of the red light sections of Villes. I was in Korea in a small farm town in 1983 and these videos brought back some powerful feelings of nostalgia for me. Does anyone reading this remember a club named “Silver Wave” in Seoul ? It was one of the biggest clubs there in 1983 and very popular among GIs.

  • Red Light
    12:48 pm on April 25th, 2012 71

    Korean red light district, info, prices, locations, and tips at:
    http://koreanredlight.com
    or
    http://koreanredlight.blogspot.com

  • GI Joe
    2:40 pm on May 14th, 2012 72

    I was a very big customer in seoul and went to every red light district to sample the wares. while the whores might close their doors to foreignors, thats only the ones out front in the glass windows if you just go around the back theres the wall-mart priced ones that done care at all who they take. also in gangnam there were many high class prostitution hotels. about 250 a pop but it was a nights rest/bubble bath/massage/cab ride/ cumfy robe/sex type of place. very nice. all you have to do is get in a taxi and say “anma!” which is high-class-hooker in korea im sure or something of that sort because it always got me to the right destination. also most katusas will gladly draw you a map with dirrections for a taxi to take you to the best ones in town. loved my time there! so much money blown but so so worth it. Kapchi Kapchida! :D

  • kushibo
    2:50 pm on May 14th, 2012 73

    GI Joe, anima means massage.

  • kushibo
    2:52 pm on May 14th, 2012 74

    anima –> anma

    Stupid autocorrect! Be more intuitive!

  • Turlb
    7:30 pm on May 14th, 2012 75

    They point out the problem with the foreigners patronizing prostitution because just llike so many other things in this country they do not want to admit to the problem and face it themselves. Therefore they have to put the blame elsewhere.

  • mikew
    2:59 am on May 15th, 2012 76

    “Therefore they have to put the blame elsewhere.”

    After watching the glaring amount of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy in the american belief systems these days, one has to wonder how much the koreans are matching us. Could this be a sign that their society is progressing in our image? Do they also have widely popular cable news sources that reinforce false facts and promote unwarranted stereotypes about foreigners living in the USA like we have in america? Lets hope not, for the sake of americans living over there – ‘specially those that are more sensitive to being wrongly blamed.

    From reading here, foreigners are physically blocked from patronising red light clubs in some places and if they make it into a club, the girls are similarly blocking advances by turning their backs to them. A GI’s salary isn’t enough to float girlie clubs today, so all the facts are proving the “blame america” notion wrong. If koreans have ceased blaming GI’s in favor of blaming “foreigners” for prostitution over there, then consider that a small measure of progress for consolation. Things will eventually evolve – maybe the timeline it will take over here for americans to take in all the facts and not believe the financial crisis was caused by minorities getting home loans because the banks were “forced” to give them. But things might be hopeless if koreans also match american tendencies to block any new information, once they’ve come to their belief closures.
    (like here http://tinyurl.com/79ahq6f)

    Why would koreans still want to blame america for the prostitution business over there? It takes a more mature society to get and weight all the facts fairly instead of conveniently blaming the usual foreign scapegoats. But also consider one important fact that i dont see mentioned anywhere (and wonder if koreans use this logic in their argument). Starting from the korean war till recent history, the GI’s were the primary customer base responsible for the rise of that industry over there (and everywhere else in asia near US bases – bar none). Lets be honest – would the business be at as high a level today if the prostitution infrastructure hadn’t been laid so extensively early on – to accommodate the GI’s everywhere? It was large enough to be a safe investment for certain businessmen because it had a rich client base with an infinite demand.

    I wouldn’t agree with the thrust of this earlier comment here tho,…
    “…without the sex trade for the last 60+ years, the Korean Penninsula would still look like it did in 1950 by and large, because the money would not have flowed as readily to jumpstart thier economic, technological, and building/export booms! From The Ho Houses to Hyundai, its all intertwined, and without the good ole GI, well, it would all be moot!”
    I doubt hundai and the ship building industry there could siphon off enough money from the sex trade to be so successful – or that they would even need that, given how obtaining big $$$loans would be easier and necessary.

    One thing in the comment has some credence. If there had been no large sex trade industry over the last 60+ years, how would korea look today?

    Prostitution is going to be evident in any society, but how much of it could you expect to see if it had been the koreans alone who were responsible for laying the groundwork of that industry, in their own country?

  • ajushi
    9:19 am on July 6th, 2012 77

    Hi.

    I need to know the best redlight to go in seoul.Composed wormly young people and perhaps bit cheaper price and little secret not that like chongyangri which is fully white light.When you enter all people see you doing the bussiness …not sound good
    hahaha. please!

  • Stephen
    11:06 am on July 6th, 2012 78

    북창동 (Bukchangdong) is the best red light district in Seoul and easy to find, being next to Seoul City Hall. As you have indicated that you need a “cheaper price”, I have no idea, as Korean gangs only want wealthy foreigners pawing their wimmin.

 

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