I’m sure there is no one on Yongsan surprised by this news:
U.S. Army Garrison-Yongsan officials will not say why a prominent realty company is being investigated and was put off-limits earlier this month.
The president of Julie’s Realty said her company has done nothing wrong, and she believes the off-limits designation will be overturned soon during the appeals process.
“There is a misunderstanding,” Julie Back said Friday at her office, located near Samgakji subway station and a short walk from Yongsan’s Gate One. About a dozen thank-you letters and certificates of appreciation from U.S. Forces Korea are posted inside. “We both need to talk and have more understanding on each side.”
Both Yongsan and Criminal Investigation Division officials from the United States declined to say last week why Julie’s Realty was placed off-limits on Feb. 15. [Stars & Stripes]
You have to love the statement, “have more understanding on each side”. I was almost expecting her to say next, “you need to understand our special situation”. I understand quite well what Julie Back and the other housing scammers are up to in Korea.
Though the article did not specify what the company did wrong, but I would not be surprised if they were caught colluding with renters to jack up housing prices based off a servicemembers rank. These realtors know what each rank get paid per month for basic allowance for housing (BAH) and thus if for example they have an apartment that according to local rental rates should cost $1,000 per month apartment available, but the realtor knows the soldier they are looking at renting the apartment is authorized $1,500 for BAH, the realtor will then collude with the apartment owner to jack up the price to $1,500 and then they will split the extra money between themselves. This scam has been going on for years and finally someone is catching on to it. I wonder how long before someone begins to catch on to the utility fraud going on as well?
Julie’s Realty opened a branch across the street from Camp Red Cloud immediately after the 2nd Infantry Division announced the beginning of a new policy to use housing brokers in Area I. This off limits order only effects Julie’s Realty in Yongsan and I suspect that they haven’t had enough time to fully develop their corrupt practices in Uijongbu yet since they are relatively new to the market there. USFK should just put this whole company off limits if what they are doing in Yongsan is illegal because if they are willing to screw soldiers over in Yongsan to make a buck they will be willing to do it to the soldiers in 2ID as well.
My best advice to people is not to use the housing brokers if possible. Find a Korean friend you can trust, maybe a KATUSA to enquire about local apartments. I had a KATUSA in my unit that helped soldiers out all the time with finding apartments that were at market value. Something else I recommend is not to live in an apartment near the camp. The landlords in the ville are a bunch of sharks and if they are not ripping you off on rent then they will probably rip you off on your utilities or housing deposit when you leave. You have to get away from these people and that is why I recommend looking for an apartment that is further away from the camp, plus apartments further away from the camp are usually much better then the rat nests for an apartment that are found in the ville.
When I was stationed in 2ID, I lived in a high rise apartment in Uijongbu that was only four years old that had three bedrooms, two bathrooms for $700 bucks a month. At least for Uijongbu this kind of gives people an idea of housing prices available off post. You should not be paying anymore then around $700 bucks a month and when I left the apartment I had no issues at all. There absolutely no scams to rip me off and my wife and I really enjoyed living in the apartment. The only down sides for me were that I did have to buy a refrigerator and a washing machine which was an extra expense and I had a 10-15 minute jog to get to work every morning. The jog to work was no big deal considering I had to go to PT in the morning anyway.
Housing brokers should be doing the job of linking up soldiers with good apartments at market values, but if only a limited amount of brokers are used to find soldiers apartments the temptation to collude with landlords to screw servicemembers out of money like Julie’s Realty becomes the order of the day. USFK servicemembers deserve better then this.
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7:27 pm on February 23rd, 2008 1
Instead of having a “USFK approved” list of realtors, which encourages collusion, there should be simply a list of off-limits realtors instead, but what the Hell do I know.
8:22 pm on February 23rd, 2008 2
$700 A MONTH - SURE IN UIJEONGBU.
9:23 pm on February 23rd, 2008 3
I found my own apartment but the yongsan housing office makes you go through a lot of extra step, in the name of protecting you, to get the lease approved. But, guess what, you do not have to take the extra steps if you use an approved realtor. Who is colluding with who? Thats a rhetorical question anyway!
9:54 pm on February 23rd, 2008 4
I blame USFK for agreeing to raise the housing rate ceilings in the first place. And yes, “someone” tells the landlords, they know about it before anyone else. Scams-R-US, that’s the USFK way.
10:45 pm on February 23rd, 2008 5
I wish the US DOD just pay the BAH and forget about how we spend it like they do with Contractors’ COLA. Then I can just live with my relatives and still received my BAH.
11:14 pm on February 23rd, 2008 6
What ever happened to housing service members on post? Wouldn’t the military save money by housing senior enlisted and officers?
Also, the government system of giving x amount of dollars and you have to spend it or lose it is crap. If they give me $40k/year for housing, as a single guy, why should I live in a 32 pyong apt when I can live in a 60-70 pyong apartment and waste the space? At the very least, if you find an apt at a decent price, then you should get a percentage of the rest as reward for saving money.
11:46 pm on February 23rd, 2008 7
lcgrant:
Good, because you answered your own question.
9:16 am on February 24th, 2008 8
I remember the drill that I had to go through with the Yongsan housing office to get my apartment. It was a mess and when they finally handed you over to the realtor, the standard practice was to first show you a couple of places that no one in their right mind would inhabit unless they had major renovation. This usually involved trudging up and down hills around Yongsan so they could get you tired and then they’d spring the “last” apartment they had available on you which was the one that they had worked with the landlord to save for GI’s. By this time you were so tired that you just went ahead and took the apartment. I out foxed them though. I told them I didn’t like anything they had shown me and threatened to report them to the U.S. Army housing officer (the U.S. Army guy in charge, not the Koreans working for him/her). Suddenly they would remember a place that was better than the last and call the landlord on their cellphone and then drive you there in their car. Yes, the old shell game was tedious but you could win at it sometimes. My objective was always to get the best place that I could for the money that I had to spend even if it took a couple of days of trudging around. Sometimes I wore out the realtors doing this. Hehehehehe….
Tim in Angeles sendzzzzzzzzzz
11:05 am on February 24th, 2008 9
CPT KIm,
What’s with the “Contractor’s COLA” comment? Why should anyone care how I spend my $200 a month COLA.
11:27 am on February 24th, 2008 10
CPT Kim, I think you meant to say “LQA” rather than “COLA.” Anyways, that isn’t such a good idea, because too many guys would simply shack up with juicies or live 2-4 to an apartment, heaven forbid.
12:28 pm on February 24th, 2008 11
CPT Kim, myself being a contractor, I don’t get COLA. I get a salary and housing allowance. The housing allowance isn’t scrutinized at all. I keep what’s left over, so it’s in my best interest to find the lowest priced living quarters.
However, I do know that civil service and military members don’t have that privilege, hence driving real estate prices to astronomical levels around base and creating an atmosphere for scandals like this to thrive.
We can thank our US government, not the oppurtunist Korean landlords or corrupt real estate agents, for mandating those restrictions to civil service and militar member’s BAH. I don’t understand why BAH isn’t left to be used like BAS.
3:35 pm on February 24th, 2008 12
KimchiKills,
You’re correct. For civil service personnel, there’s a set limit, and whatever you don’t use, you lose, which of course has the employees looking for the most expensive place possible (within their range) so that they can max out that allowance. If I walk into a realtor’s office and say that I have $60,000 per year to spend on rent and utils, you can bet he or she will find me a place that costs just that much.
9:20 am on February 25th, 2008 13
I wanna say this, that depends on your landlord and you!!!
You are gonna be charged double now matter what size the Apt.is, but the killer is all the landlords know how much you get for your grade and they all(landlords) price them the same. The LQA is not mandated by use or lose it’s just how much is available to you according to your grade. Remember the State Department set’s those rates not the Military just like the 5 year rule is a State Department rule not a military rule.
As a civil servant they have to provide you (Waegwan) with Fridge, Stove, Washer and AC before you can rent the place and housing does a basic safety check, also it’s you who will make the final decision.
The utilities were high because of transformers and not
knowing how the heating system works.
Here’s a Tip: DO NOT let the wife get involve with LQA process.I know guys that did that and ended up get screwed big time.
9:47 am on February 25th, 2008 14
Bones,
“The utilities were high because of transformers and not
knowing how the heating system works.”
Hee, hee, hee… looks like you understand their special situation.
“Ahh… utirity beddy, beddy high becauz bing tranzpoma”.
Electricity usage is measured in watts… not amps or volts. If you run everything at 110 (half Korean voltage) through a transformer your equipment uses twice the amps of a 220 appliance… and you will use the same watts per hour that Mr. Kim will on his 20 dollar electric bill.
As for the heating system, I have personally found taps off GI’s fuel oil line going to other apartments… not once or twice but more like 40 times…
…just another ChickenHead service (that the military should be doing) when customers complained about high utilities.
As for safety inspections, somebody is a crackhead. There is nothing safe about being trapped in a back bedroom between rooms made entirely of wood/plastic and a metal screen bolted over the window.
12:34 pm on February 25th, 2008 15
It is not the contractors. We get housing, but we get to keep the extra. If I get $24K and only spend $12K, then I keep the rest. So why would I spend more? Unfortunately, I have to because of the rest of the system.
Indeed, it is the military and civil service driving up the price. A captain has a friggin 60 pyong 4 bedroom place for just him and his wife paying $4,500 a month. Hell, I can’t afford to live there, which is why I get to live in a shitty 24pyong place with my family. What moron set these prices? Just more of our tax dollars draining downtown.
Send me a headband too.
1:27 pm on February 25th, 2008 16
Once again, Stars & Stripes has missed a Real Story.
Julie’s Realty has been put off-limits.
O.K. Why?
There is NO WAY that USFK should get by so easily with secretively putting a business off-limits and refusing to say why.
This is another star in a large constellation of accepted un-transparency which allows USFK, both individually and institutionally, to engage in illegal and immoral activities with no oversight, fear of discovery or chance of outrageous acts “coming to light”.
And, it is typical Stars & Stripes “reporting” that overlooks this while reporting “facts”.
According to regulations, placing a business off-limits to American servicemembers is not something that can be arbitrarily done. There is a defined process that must be followed in a transparent way.
The reason for this open due process is to insure the politically and economically influential power of off-limits is used only to protect servicemembers… rather than for collecting payoffs, protecting the business of golf buddies, following the suggestions of Korean wives, etc.
If an “investigation” has uncovered enough wrong-doing to place a business off-limits, it can/should be released publicly while gathering additional facts.
As everyone involved knows the game is up, public release of this information will not harm the investigation… it will generate MORE evidence as customers of Julie’s Realty come forward with complaints consistent with the reasons for off-limits.
So. I smell a big, fat, money-grubbing USFK rat.
They are leaning on Julie (at one location only) for some reason.
After an “arrangement” is made, she will be quietly back on-limits without too much damage to her business… and NOTHING will change… at least in her business model of getting as much money from GIs as possible and ripping off USFK and the American tax payer.
7:21 pm on February 25th, 2008 17
Tired of it:
You must be talking about some dude of the correct race in Area II.
I’m a non-command sponsored major with wife and daughter living in a nice 30-pyung 3-bedroom for W950,000 per month, not including utilities, so I must be a good guy.
7:41 pm on February 25th, 2008 18
I used Julie’s in Uijeongbu and they were actually pretty good. I didn’t get the sense they were trying to rip me off. Don’t know what else they’ve done and I have no doubt there are some crooked realtors out there (who probably try to knock each other off), but that’s my experience.
9:38 pm on February 25th, 2008 19
Sort of wondering about us down here in Camp Humphries. I mean, do we go to Julies here and protest, just stay quiet and shut up? I have a realitive nice place in the Air Park area, but I had to wait it out to get a good place for wife and kids.
You do not place a “place” off limits without putting out the facts to the troopers. That is stupid.
Yes, Julies does have a habit of showing you a crapper of a house that reminds me what Korea was like 40 years ago, and then when you hold out, you can have a nice dig for the same frekin price!!!
I have experienced more good than bad with Julie but I do know their girls try to hook up with GIs.
9:55 pm on February 25th, 2008 20
Is she the hottie ??? going in and out of the Yongsan ACS building escorting guys to housing daily?
11:25 am on February 26th, 2008 21
“but I do know their girls try to hook up with GIs.”
Wow! And you don’t even need to spring for a hotel… being that you can just use one of the un-rented properties.
Some suggested lines to the girl showing the apartments:
“So, baby, which apartment are you going to feel most comfortable spending the night in a couple times each week?”
“How about I just move in with you and we split the LQA?”
“Do you think the neighbors will be able to hear a girl scream from here?”
“I don’t mind sharing my electricity and gas with ajushee but I have to share you, too.”
“Wow! What a dump. I’m already feeling screwed.”
“Ya got something with a bigger bedroom? I don’t think this one will hold all my friends when we run train on ya.”
7:07 pm on February 26th, 2008 22
1:02 am on March 3rd, 2008 23
I’m not sure what’s the deal with Julies in Seoul. I’m a customer of Julies in Humphreys and I have no complaints whatsoever. Their service is on par with the Korean standard of “servicey”. I had nit-pickey points about my apartment in the beginning and my agent was more than happy to obligue at no cost. The market down here is a renter’s paradise, they will tailor to any and all needs and requests.
With regards to OHA “fraud”. CONUS, we get BAH, VHA, whatever it’s called. Uncle Sugar hands us that money to work out our living situation. If my BAH is 1k, and i can put up with a $400 a month lifestyle and pocket the rest, more power to me. If uncle sugar tells me I’m on TDY or OHA with a LIMIT of $1500, and I don’t pocket the difference, what sort of living conditions would I afford for my self and/or family? We created our own OHA problem/scam, not the realtors. Our own lack of OPSEC sold us out, someone told the realtor “I don’t care how much it costs, I don’t get the kickback.”
As far as Julie’s girls “hooking up” with service members, Koreans are way too timid to come out and offer that sort of “service” to tenants without the least bit of provocation.
Please let me know when this blog starts their discussion on how AIP is not enough money.
8:26 pm on March 3rd, 2008 24
AIP is going away in DEC 08 because Congress does not have enough money. You heard it from me first!!!
8:27 pm on March 3rd, 2008 25
AIP equals aviod Iraq Program He he he, to each is own.
10:19 am on March 6th, 2008 26
[...] to a reader for forwarding me a document that shows rather unsurprisingly why Julie’s Realty was put off limits in [...]
2:00 pm on March 18th, 2008 27
Read 190-24, local cmd policy 5-12, etc. All posted via websites. Due process followed, continues to be followed, no secretive sneaking around, etc. Commander has authority for “emergency action measure” to place off limits until the next AFDCB based on the available CID investigation. Details couldn’t be released since CID case wasn’t 100% completed at the time. CID begin to peel the onion but found out it never ends, there is no “core”, just layer after layer after layer. Probably now have 20 more new cases to investigate because of their onion peeling. Historically AFDCB have been held soon after 30 days of the initial action.
12:52 pm on March 25th, 2008 28
The whole housing system is Korea needs an overhaul. All realtors know what your housing allowance is BEFORE you even go and look at a place no matter if you are a military or civil service employee. No secret there.
In Area II (USAG-Yongsan) it is a convoluted system. At one time they had 69 “Approved/Sponsored” realtors.
Pretty much cut-throat, each realtor trying to step on another for their personal gain, and trying to gain favor with housing management at the top.
In the case of Julie’s, hers was the ONLY realtor who stood up to support USFK in the K16/Yongin areas when the housing office called all realtors in for support. She had her successes, now others want in because they were too LAZY to take the business chances in the area to support USFK.
The sad part is the big Star’s and Stripes spread BEFORE an opportunity to meet with the AFDCB with an appeal of the charges. “Guilty until proven innocent”. Makes one wonder since she was previously investigated by KNP and found to be in compliance with all Korean Real Estate Laws and Business Practices. Also previously actions in K16/Yongin were reviewed by Yongsan Housing and found to be in compliance. Who is getting the payoff?
Makes one wonder who is getting the payoff (in the housing office?) to try and put Julie’s Realty and Relocation out of business. If her appeal to the AFDCB is successful, Stars and Stripes should print an apology on the Front Page at the very least. A massive lawsuit should be the next step.
Not trying to say nothing is wrong, but someone needs to look in the bushes to see who is behind it all.
Like Secretsquirrel says, peel the onion back and you will be surprised at what one finds.
3:42 pm on March 25th, 2008 29
anoldgi69, thanks for commenting. You propose an interesting theory that Julie is being set up. However I find it hard to believe that CID could have been corrupted to be part of the cover up since they are the ones that discovered the corruption.
Also, I would not be surprised if CID was tipped off by housing competitors to what Julie’s Realty was doing to get her out of the market.
11:11 pm on May 1st, 2008 30
It works with alot of people. Off post housing is what they use, some people are authorized around $3-4,000 for an apartment that cost $1,200 and they get a free car to use for a year + and get kickback. Common among officers believe it or not from my admitted friends.
6:28 pm on May 13th, 2008 31
[...] be very hit and miss in quality and are notorious for landlord sharks defrauding the military and servicemembers out of [...]
6:31 pm on May 20th, 2008 32
10:47 pm on September 16th, 2008 33
12:46 am on September 17th, 2008 34
Military Wife, tell your landlord that you want the electric company to come out and do a survey of your apartment or house. And if you went through the on base housing office, go there for help first.
6:13 am on September 17th, 2008 35
Military Wife,
I read a detailed post somewhere here about how landlords steal from the military and the renters.
Maybe GI Korea can find it and repost it.
You are probably paying for your landlord and his relative’s bills.
6:14 am on September 17th, 2008 36
Let me second what Rob is saying to do. You may be getting scammed by the landlord. I would also recommend if you haven’t already to ask other Americans that may live in your neighborhood what they are paying on their gas bill to compare with yours.
Good luck.
6:40 am on September 17th, 2008 37
The sad part about Julie’s is if one looks at rental rates BEFORE Julie’s was suspended, if you had a contract with Julie’s you were probably paying LESS than the maximum allowance. Since being suspended, surprisingly all the rental rates have INCREASED by those
other so-called “ethical” realtors.
The Housing Office refuses to look into the business practices of other Realtors (Gouging the Military, not paying thier KOREAN TAXES, etc). Heck, they even let their Housing Manager at K-16 steer the military to one particular realtor (the manager has been observed giving specific names and telephone number to a particular realtor). Wonder if that is how he is suplementing his income? Is that fair?
The whole system needs to be overhauled, starting at the top. The housing staff in Yongsan used to be top notch, but the Chief continues to ignore complaints. They have been rewarded by turning the operation into a “sweat shop” operation where customer service, which used to be number one in all of Korea, has now hit rock bottom.
And as for other realtors complaining about Julie’s, I am sure it was not because anything out of the ordinary was going on (maybe there was), but rather their INABILITY to “crack-the-nut” after being asked to do so by the Housing folks and opting not to, then complaining about Julie’s or other realtors who opted to support USFK when requested and became sucessful or well liked because of it. I am sure if CID questioned some others, they too might get rattled also and not be so quick to try and bring down others in their business.
How many actually felt that Julie’s were taking them for a ride, especially when the HOUSING OFFICE had to approve all documentation?
6:56 am on September 17th, 2008 38
For GI Korea regarding other offices of Julies. Supposedly the command in Area I investigated Julie’s BEFORE permitting her business to open to support USFK in that area, and found no wrong doing.
For Chicken Head…Considering an “arrangement” to get put back ‘on-limits’ without too much damage to her (or any) business, consider this.
Having your business and name sullied in that great newspaper “Stars & Stripes” with big headlines, having to close your business operation in Yongsan, putting your employees out of work and people wondering if they should even talk to you, want would you call that?
If CID did a full and fair investigation of the other so-called “sponsored realtors” they might be surprised to see that they are not as “Lily-White” as they want to be.