That is the claims coming from Chinese Internet users are claiming and from a comment left by Kalani on this prior ROK Drop posting he provides evidence that the Chinese Internet users may have a point. He has provided links to two photos that may be doctored.
The first photo is from Channel News Asia which shows a Free Tibet protester being karate kicked by a Chinese protester:
The second photo comes from the China Digital Times which apparently shows the man kicked lying on the ground:
Notice that the man being kicked has a brown jacket in each photo confirming it is probably the same guy being assaulted. However the person assaulting him has different colored hat, shirt, and shoes in the two pictures. So the question would be for people familiar with the photoshopping of pictures, are either of these pictures doctored? Could the guy doing the karate kick been added into the first picture for example in order to make whatever was happening look worse then what it was?
However, if these photos are doctored it still doesn’t explain the behavior in the Grand Plaza Hotel and other areas caught on YouTube video as well as this photo set that clearly shows the Chinese demonstrators assaulting people protesting for North Korean human rights by trying to rush them and throwing rocks, bottles, etc. at them.
However, by anyone trying to doctor photos this will provide cover for the Chinese to hide behind to excuse their clear bad behavior in Seoul that the Korean government is still working on a response to after they finish viewing all the videos and pictures.
In other news regarding the Chinese riot in Seoul, the Chinese Foreign Ministry is refusing to apologize for what happened:
Meanwhile, the Chinese government has merely expressed “sympathy” with South Korean victims of the Chinese demonstrators’ violence, stopping short of an apology for violence against Koreans, foreigners, police officers and reporters during the Olympic torch relay in Seoul.
In a briefing on Tuesday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said, “It was an action for justice by well-meaning Chinese students who tried to prevent Tibetan secessionists from obstructing the Olympic torch relay for the Beijing Olympics. Their motive was well meant, but their action became violent. The Chinese government expresses sympathy with the victims of the violence.”
When reporters asked if the Chinese government had no intention to apologize to the Korean people, Jiang merely said, “Chinese people on the scene were well-meaning …. But their action for justice became violent when they tried to deter Tibetan secessionists from obstructing the Olympic torch relay.” [Chosun Ilbo]
I can’t help but think how many times USFK and the US Embassy in Seoul have had to apologize for the actions of rogue soldiers or accidents and yet have had in the past huge protests against them. The Chinese Embassy on the other hand is clearly showing no remorse for what happened. So what do readers think are the odds that Hanchongryun will come out in force and protest the Chinese Embassy?
Something else I find interesting is how the both the Chinese students and the Chinese Foreign Ministry have been blaming Tibetan activists for the violence. I find this interesting because judging by the photos the majority of protesters were North Korean human rights activists. Could it be the Chinese are trying to deflect attention away from the North Korean human rights problems within China like the modern day sex slave industry of North Korean women? They could be trying to deflect attention since they don’t have a leg to stand on with this issue; so they simply blame everything that happened in Seoul on Tibetan activists.
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7:01 am on May 1st, 2008 1
No,the photo has not been doctored. In the second photo, the person kicking the man on the ground is clearly not the same person as the man kicking in the first photo. Not only the hat, but the shoes, and shirt are different. In the second photo, a person draped in a Chinese flag is barely visible behind the kicker in the red cap. The photos are obviously not directly sequential - same place, same group, but a small time span between the first and second kicks. Doesn’t take a CSI expert to figure this out. Just look at the details in the photos. Ludicrous allegations of photoshopping and the like are surfacing on the Chinese internet, and this website appears to have uploaded a page from a print media source:
http://msn.myspace.cn/t/3621225.html
7:23 am on May 1st, 2008 2
In fact, if you scroll down the linked Chinese page, you will see other photos of the same incident. Interestingly, the Chinese doctored the first photo, obviously blotting out the Chinese flag on the back of the white shirt and obscuring the face of the kicker. The man in the red cap and white face mask is seen wrestling with the bike in the 7th photo. His arm full of tattoos makes me think he is a huaqiao, not a Chinese student. The 5th photo appears to be from a daily newspaper and alleges that the Koreans really brought the weaponry themselves and are falsely accusing the Chinese.
7:54 am on May 1st, 2008 3
Here’s another link with a series of photos of the attack on the bicycler:
http://www.sanshou.net/php/news/news_xiang.php?inid=1209463559
The photo of the man on the ground (the second in your post) appears to have been taken with a different camera, but I don’t think it’s doctored. No need to. There are plenty of other photos of two Chinese students kicking the man. The back of the student’s t-shirt identifies him as a member of the Busan Chinese Overseas Student Association. Pathetic that the Chinese blog in tmy first link pasted another image over the name and then claim that the Koreans are faking evidence.
Kalani, if you have links, please post them. I’m going to do some scouting, and I might blog about this at the Marmot’s Hole.
8:41 am on May 1st, 2008 4
“Could the guy doing the karate kick been added into the first picture for example in order to make whatever was happening look worse then what it was?”
Hmmm… that’s interesting… but the REAL story is…
…why would a Chinese guy study karate?
9:13 am on May 1st, 2008 5
Chinese are well known for doctoring up and photoshopping pictures. This is not the first time.
9:50 am on May 1st, 2008 6
Come to think of it, Chinese are well known for copying and producing fake products world over. I’m not surprised they’ll do this.
11:36 am on May 1st, 2008 7
Watching Chinese kick the shit out of Koreans is funny.
12:34 pm on May 1st, 2008 8
I wonder if the Chinese nationalists remember and have brought up the violent Hong Kong protests by Korean unionists some years ago?
2:40 pm on May 1st, 2008 9
This years Olympics should be interesting for more than just sport. This may be the Olympics to end all Olympics (the mother of all Olympics).
3:39 pm on May 1st, 2008 10
Sonagi, thanks for clearing this up. The photos are out of sequence.
From placing them in order, it appears the attackee got into some sort of confrontation with the Chinese. He raised the portable bicycle over his head in a threatening manner (photo 1). Then he tried to flee when he saw he was outnumbered. One Chinese tried to restrain him by pulling on his coat and another delivered a flying kick to his back. (photos 2-4) The attackee fell to the ground and a Chinese either coming to his aid or to prevent him from fleeing intervenes. (photo 5-6). The police then hustle him off to one of the buses for aid. (photo 7).
The question I ask is why would a fool, surrounded by partisan Chinese, even try to raise his bike in a threatening manner to the Chinese? Lots of balls, but no brains…or simply no brains.
Again Sonagi — great work.
8:23 pm on May 1st, 2008 11
From placing them in order, it appears the attackee got into some sort of confrontation with the Chinese. He raised the portable bicycle over his head in a threatening manner (photo 1). Then he tried to flee when he saw he was outnumbered. …The question I ask is why would a fool, surrounded by partisan Chinese, even try to raise his bike in a threatening manner to the Chinese? Lots of balls, but no brains…or simply no brains.
Look at those photos. That horde of students didn’t just suddenly appear, so I think the man with the bicycle knew he was outnumbered from the get-go. The photo with the raised bicycle appears first at the website, but that does not mean it happened first, and we don’t know what happened before it. The man’s expression is fearful. To me, it looks like he was using the bike in vain to defend himself against an unruly crowd. If indeed he was a Free Tibet protester, it is very likely that the crowd attacked him without provocation as they did to others. Chinese students despise “ZD fenzi” and feel they and the NK human rights advocates, whom they lump together as “fanhuafenzi,” or “anti-Chinese,” deserved the violence they got.
BTW, I looked at dozens of Chinese websites, and none of them alleged the photos to be doctored. The Chinese are accusing the NK human rights advocates of bringing those pliers and stones themselves and lying about getting those objects from Chinese students.
9:53 pm on May 1st, 2008 12
Sonagi, I don’t want to drag this point out as I agree with you that we don’t know what started it nor what happened before the shot and in between the next shot of him being kicked.
My question is simply derived from common sense. If one is surrounded by potential assailants and you’re all alone, the NORMAL reaction is to flee — NOT raise your bicycle over your head in a threatening manner to fight off the hoards with your trusty bicycle. Such an act will only inflame your potential assailants — and you end up in the hospital. It is NOT a smart move.
Again I’m NOT saying things were doctored — though one shot has some wierd perspectives (distorted faces and scrunched bodies as if someone took the shot with a fisheye lens). Also I wonder who the man is, why the story wasn’t highlighted in the ROK media as the photos are pretty sensational, etc. etc. etc. It just seems strange to me that these dramatic photos haven’t hit the ROK news as well — or maybe they have, but are not in the online English newspapers I read.
Once again…thanks for keeping things straight.
10:11 pm on May 1st, 2008 13
Hold up…we may be looking at TWO separate incidents. In glancing again at the photos.
In Photo 1, the man has glasses.
In Photo 2 the man being kicked has NO glasses.
Photos 3,4 belong with photo 2, but the man’s face cannot be seen.
Photos 5 uncertain if man wearing glasses because of angle.
Photo 6 show a man on ground WITH glasses.
Photo 7 show man WITHOUT glasses — though pretty certain same man in Photo 6 by the buttoned lapel pockets of his coat.
Sorry, I just don’t know what to make of these photos any more.
12:43 am on May 2nd, 2008 14
I’m a Korean, and I saw this incident on both the news and the web in Korea.
As far as I know, the group of Korean protestors who demand freedom of Tibet were quite small. Almost unnoticable.
The major group of Korean protestors were actually expecting to raise public interest on North Koreans who escaped the North but being sent back by the Chinese government.
However, compared with the number of people who just came to watch the olympic torch, the later group was also small.
The chiese mobs, as a result, attacked more innocent citiens than the Korean protesters, intentional or not.
12:46 am on May 2nd, 2008 15
Oneworld
1 May 2008
Toelung Dechen (Ch: Duilongdeqing) County, Lhasa Municipality-Evidences being destroyed by the Chinese army
The Chinese armed forces in their attempt to wipe out any kind of evidence related to the recent protests in Tibet are burning all the dead bodies of people who have been killed since the March 14 protest in Tibet.
On 28th March, around 83 corpses were burnt altogether in an electrical crematorium, which was built by the Chinese government a few years back in the Dhongkar Yabdha shang town in Toelung Dechen county under Lhasa Municipality.
Moreover, some eyewitness accounts confirmed that at around10.30 pm (Lhasa local time) on March 17, dead bodies of several were seen in two army trucks near a petrol pump located towards the west of Lhasa [this petrol pump has been one of the most restricted sites since the protests began in Tibet]
Due to a heavy traffic jam around this petrol pump, a few Tibetans reported having seen blood discharges from the two trucks that were carrying dead bodies. In addition to this, there are more reports of dead bodies being transported to Toelung Dechen County in army trucks.
On the evening of March 15, an eyewitness source confirmed seeing dead bodies being carried in a truck towards Toelung County.
Many Tibetans who have been injured since the starts of the protests in Tibet continue to die in People?s Hospital with no immediate medical care.
Moreover, one monk who was arrested from Drepung Monastery on 12th April also died in prison. But there are no further details explaining his death. Two more women are also reported dead immediately after their release from a prison in Lhasa.
Following is the list of four new names* we can confirm for people who have been killed since the March protests in Tibet.
Lobsang Tenzin 24 years, Gongkar County
Gyaltsen Yarphel 43 years Gaden Monastery
Ngawang Sherab Migmar 24, Gaden Monastery
Both of them are brothers and died around the March 14 protest in Tibet. No further details are available.
* In addition to the already released 61 total names and details of Tibetans killed during the recent demonstrations, here we are releasing 3 more names (with details) from the current death toll list which stands well over 140.
Lhakpa Tsering (his name already reported on the death toll list) was killed after a gun shot to his forehead by the Chinese Armed Forces on March 14 at Lugug Street. He was a resident within the premises of gate number 11 (external boundary) ; gate no 1 (internal boundary) in Lugug Street. He is survived by his 2 year old child. He worked as a tourist taxi driver in Lhasa. Although his family did receive his dead body, but the local security forces took the body with them claiming that they needed to investigate the body at the People?s Procuratorate. His body was later burnt in Toelung County. His family was just given a bag containing some ashes with his name written on it.
4:55 am on May 2nd, 2008 16
#13
Don’t want to waste any more of your space on this. Found a Chinese video (English subtitle) on Youtube explaining the photos — my sequence was still out of order. To save time, if you’re interested, I posted the photos at http://kalaniosullivan.com/OsanAB/SouthKoreaEvents2008.html#Backlash.
Seems like the bicycle rider bashed a Chinese in the head with his bicycle (if you believe the Chinese) and his friends were chasing him down. The original incident happened in one area and the kicking incident happened in another area. The video and photo we found shows the injured Chinese person. There was a scuffle and the Korean lost his glasses. He got away and made a beeline for the Police line and safety. It appears the flying kick was the last ditch effort to prevent him from escaping. The fellow with the red shoes that is in the second shot we have concluded was one of the posse chasing down the Korean as his red shoes/red watch/red cap appear in many of the photos.
6:34 am on May 2nd, 2008 17
So according to Kalani, this was all Koreans fault.
100 or so Korans and foreign protesters, they attacked 10,000 + Chinese who were doing nothing but celebrating the Olympic spirit.
Kalani, are you sure you’re not Chinese? Because the only ones who believe this lie are the Chinese who are coming up with all kinds of fake evidences that it was the Koreans who planned it all.
9:39 am on May 2nd, 2008 18
If one is surrounded by potential assailants and you’re all alone, the NORMAL reaction is to flee — NOT raise your bicycle over your head in a threatening manner to fight off the hoards with your trusty bicycle.
That is, if you CAN flee. I’ve looked at the first photo collection again, and I noticed:
a) in the raised bicycle image, the man appeared to be surrounded.
b) in the fleeing and kicking image, he is near the iron gate
c) there is also a shot of the bicycle on the ground and both the man and a Chinese student appear to be wrestling over it.
As I’ve said, it’s hard to sequence the photos. We don’t know what happened before the man put the bicycle over his head. Was he threatened? Did someone try to take his bicycle away? Judging by the bicycle-over-the-head shot, there wasn’t a clear path to run at that moment. Frankly, Kalani, using one’s common sense, it’s just not likely that a lone man threatened one or more of a a band of Chinese students, some of whom appear to be larger, without provocation.
Also I wonder who the man is, why the story wasn’t highlighted in the ROK media as the photos are pretty sensational, etc. etc. etc. It just seems strange to me that these dramatic photos haven’t hit the ROK news as well — or maybe they have, but are not in the online English newspapers I read.
“…English newspapers I read.” That explains it. Most Korean news content does not get translated into the English press. I Navered “Chinese overseas student,” ordered the photo results by date, and found many links to photos of the incident in question. Here is one example, which identifies the man as a Korean supporter of Tibet:
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=104&oid=045&aid=0001944189
Sorry, I just don’t know what to make of these photos any more.
I would not make too much of them. There are enough images of Chinese young people hitting, kicking, and throwing things to know that there was violence during the demonstrations. Let the police sort out the individual cases.
Seems like the bicycle rider bashed a Chinese in the head with his bicycle (if you believe the Chinese) and his friends were chasing him down.
I don’t. This viral PR spin is all over the internet. I had a look at the garbage in Chinese yesterday. I’ll believe the man actually hit a Chinese in the head when I see an actual photo of him actually hitting, not just holding the bicycle over his head. We see plenty of photos of the Chinese students actually kicking the man, so we know that really happened. The same websites spinning these photos are calling Korean “shameless gaolibanzi” and gleefully cheering on the acts of violence against both Free Tibet and North Korean refugee advocates, whom Chinese netizens declare as “China haters.” I’m not going to take seriously the claims of people who can’t tell the difference between the issues of Tibet and North Korea, who regard CNN as the Beast despite the fact that most have never actually watched it, and who haver never acknowledged in any language that at least some of their number acted wrongly. Common sense dictates that at least some of the violence perpetrated by the Chinese demonstrators was unprovoked, yet according to the Internet China Defense League, it was either justified or defensive. On many Chinese websites, it is written that anyone who supports Tibet independence is an enemy of China and it is right to attack them. This isn’t just nutizen stuff. Chinese buy into the notion that foreign Tibet activists are trying to split China to weaken it and thus are a real threat to national unity.
Just as Koreans sometimes use milder language or put a different spin on issues in the English media, Chinese do the same thing. The tone of the English language stuff is defensive. The tone of the Chinese websites is hostile, defiant, and threatening.
9:48 am on May 2nd, 2008 19
Seems like the bicycle rider bashed a Chinese in the head with his bicycle (if you believe the Chinese) and his friends were chasing him down. The original incident happened in one area and the kicking incident happened in another area. The video and photo we found shows the injured Chinese person.
I have seen those photos and claims on Chinese websites. Clearly there is a large, organized Chinese response to the negative publicity surrounding the demo violence. I would not assume that the persons providing the photo narrative actually witnessed the event. Although the photo of the student holding a tissue to his head was taken at the same place as the bicycle incident, there are no overlapping people in the photos, nevermind the bicyclist, so the photo is not evidence of claims that the bicyclist hit a Chinese in the head.
10:25 am on May 2nd, 2008 20
And one more thing. I had another look at the wounded Chinese student and bicycle over the head photos while browsing news photos. The man facing the bicycler is not the same as the man holding tissues to his head. The former has longer hair than the latter. Chinese netizen CSI sucks.
10:54 am on May 2nd, 2008 21
I WAS ATTACKED… I CAN’T FIND PICTURES. I AM AMERICAN… I WAS ATTACKED AND MY CLOTHES WERE TORN, AND I GOT HELP FROM THE POLICE… THESE PRO-CHINA PEOPLE ARE NAZIS…
1:31 pm on May 2nd, 2008 22
I can also confirm #17s post, I am speaking with all the civilians that have been unjustly murdered in the spirit realm.
But you probably already know this thanks to the Tibetan Government in Exile’s impeccable methodology…
1:50 pm on May 2nd, 2008 23
Ferin is a C-borg and Peking Duck regular. Not sure how he found his way over here.
Not to beat a dead horse, but as an example of how Chinese netizens are either misinterpreting or outright lying about “photo evidence,” in the video you linked, Kalani, and in other Chinese-produced internet content, there are photos of a Korean NK human rights demonstrator dressed up in a PLA uniform and holding a pair of wire cutters or some similar tool. The Koreans alleged that this tool was confiscated from Chinese students. Chinese counter that the Koreans brought the tool to the demonstration and provide as evidence online and in newspapers photos of the man in the PLA uniform holding the wire cutters:
http://b0.ac-images.cdnmyspace.cn/cnimages01/2/o_012f68afcabaae28537db9eb67c5080c.jpg
Visible in the photo are press microphones, which suggest that the man is being interviewed by reporters, yet this Chinese newspaper and numerous other Chinese websites claim that this photo is proof that the Koreans brought the wire cutter. I happened to come across a Korean news video, which shows clearly that the man was indeed displaying the confiscated weapon to the media and wasn’t just holding the wire cutters.
http://www.ytn.co.kr/_comm/pop_mov.php?s_mcd=0103&s_hcd=&key=200804301750392393
1:58 pm on May 2nd, 2008 24
#17
Tom, I guess I am ineffective in explaining. Once again, I “doubt” the Chinese story. But at the same time I do NOT “disbelieve” their story. I only “believe” or “disbelieve” something when I see “tangible proof” that is irrefutable. All I’ve heard so far is a lot of emotional blathering from the Korean Prime Minister on down — including bloggers. Both sides are playing a “he said-she said” game. The real truth is somewhere in this mess, but I don’t think it has been revealed as yet.
My DOUBT in the Chinese story comes from wondering why the student who was injured has not filed a assault charge against the man — if not for anything else than the fact that he can collect some pocket change in solarium money. My doubting of the “injury” of the bashing event is simple — atleast to me. This event was plastered across the face of news media. The man attacked has been identified as he was taken by the police for aid…and there are enough pictures of his face everywhere. Yet no Chinese has come forward to file charges with the Korean police that the Korean man hit him over the head with the bicycle — or atleast no one has been reported as coming forward. Some might reason that he fears deportation by the ROK if he identifies himself. Can’t buy that nor any other reason why he has not come forward. Up to now we only have the proof of the photos that an assault on a Korean man did occur. That is fact! The Chinese defense that one of theirs was attacked is NOT supported by proof.
Until I see tangible proof that a crime was committed by the Korean side, I will DOUBT it happened.
However, at the same time, I didn’t say that I disbelieved it either.
4:01 am on May 3rd, 2008 25
I’m not a “C-borg”, I just don’t like liars who bandwagon and flood threads with irrelevant crap during controversies because it makes them seem more believable.
1:14 pm on May 3rd, 2008 26
So you’re not a fan of the Chinese internet campaign, either, Ferin.
11:32 am on July 16th, 2008 27
Does everyone noticed that COMMIS have VERY BAD, BAD Manners! They have no respect period!
All their news and posting are LIES and manipulated to brain washed people. Worst of all, they are in DENIALS of facts and truth! What does that tell you about this EVIL REGIME and the brain washed COMMIS!
I for one will not watch the Olympics nor travel to China. The world is too big to be wasting my time there.