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	<title>Comments on: Violence Against Foreigners in Hongdae Continues</title>
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	<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/</link>
	<description>Serving on the Forgotten Frontier</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: CalmSeas</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-204142</link>
		<dc:creator>CalmSeas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-204142</guid>
		<description>DMZ Dave/Chickenhead:

Have to agree with you on helping people when they are in need. If SOME ignorant &#38; racist Koreans/Asians want to pull their racist B/S, then they will eventually suffer from their lying and false accusations, as many of these Asian countries are.

I have seen this same attitude in other Asian countries and it never ceases to amaze me how a culture can be so uncaring about it's fellow citizens. However, there are just some situations that I would make an instant decision to ignore and keep on going for exactly the same reasons that many of the posters have outlined...especially in instances where alcohol is obviously the cause (they can suffer the misfortunes of their own stupidity), or where there is already a crowd of the indigenous population milling around. This is probably the best way to approach any of tese siuations...let the locals attempt to provide assistance first and then ask them if they would like you to assist them. CYA!

As DMZ Dave pointed out after the fact, you should always have persons/numbers that you should contact in the event of one of these situations and let the established authorities hash it out. Unfortunately, private citizens are often left out in the cold in these countries, as the U.S. Embassy is about useless.

I have been in a car accident in the Philippines, where we were rear-ended by a large truck...not one Filipino offered assistance and there were many standing around by a store and small coffee shop just gawking. That told me volumes about their culture. Have observed the same attitude in Thailand, korea, etc. It really makes you wonder about Asian cultures and their values.

In contrast, I have seen many accidents in America, where complete strangers will stop and offer in-depth assistance...w/o even thinking about the consequences.

While Asia can be a neat place to live, it does take a callous individual to tolerate their indifference towards human life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DMZ Dave/Chickenhead:</p>
<p>Have to agree with you on helping people when they are in need. If SOME ignorant &amp; racist Koreans/Asians want to pull their racist B/S, then they will eventually suffer from their lying and false accusations, as many of these Asian countries are.</p>
<p>I have seen this same attitude in other Asian countries and it never ceases to amaze me how a culture can be so uncaring about it&#8217;s fellow citizens. However, there are just some situations that I would make an instant decision to ignore and keep on going for exactly the same reasons that many of the posters have outlined&#8230;especially in instances where alcohol is obviously the cause (they can suffer the misfortunes of their own stupidity), or where there is already a crowd of the indigenous population milling around. This is probably the best way to approach any of tese siuations&#8230;let the locals attempt to provide assistance first and then ask them if they would like you to assist them. CYA!</p>
<p>As DMZ Dave pointed out after the fact, you should always have persons/numbers that you should contact in the event of one of these situations and let the established authorities hash it out. Unfortunately, private citizens are often left out in the cold in these countries, as the U.S. Embassy is about useless.</p>
<p>I have been in a car accident in the Philippines, where we were rear-ended by a large truck&#8230;not one Filipino offered assistance and there were many standing around by a store and small coffee shop just gawking. That told me volumes about their culture. Have observed the same attitude in Thailand, korea, etc. It really makes you wonder about Asian cultures and their values.</p>
<p>In contrast, I have seen many accidents in America, where complete strangers will stop and offer in-depth assistance&#8230;w/o even thinking about the consequences.</p>
<p>While Asia can be a neat place to live, it does take a callous individual to tolerate their indifference towards human life.</p>
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		<title>By: TrueSelf</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-203739</link>
		<dc:creator>TrueSelf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-203739</guid>
		<description>I know I'm a little late, but I've found myself nodding in agreement and shaking my head in disbelief as I've scrolled through this thread. Surprisingly, not all Koreans are oblivious or in denial of this "screw the wae guk in" phenomenon. 

I was in Sillim with my girlfriend, a Korean citizen, walking through one of the tight alleys between the main roads when we heard a loud crash against an aluminum garage type door. There were cars parked tightly along the building inches from the door, so we couldn't see what was happening, but as we passed the area of the crash, we noticed a young man lying face down on the ground between two cars having a seizure. I am a medical professional in the army, so my first instinct was to help him and ensure that he doesn't recieve any injuries during the seizure. His face was against a metal drain grate and when I turned him over onto his back I could see that his nose was broken and his face was covered in blood. I stayed next to him and waited for the seizure to end, then asked my girlfriend to translate as I asked him if he needed any help getting to a doctor to treat his nose. He didn't respond, and looked extremely embarrassed...almost angry. He had another small seizure and we stayed with him until it ended so that he would not hurt himself any more. He never said anything to either of us, but simply glared like we had done something wrong to him. My girlfriend quickly said that we should leave, because I might get into trouble. I didn't understand why, and I didn't want to leave because he obviously didn't have any medication and he could have another seizure at any moment. She explained to me that from an outsiders perspective it looked like I had severely beaten the guy, and being an American could instigate alot of problems from potential "witnesses" and possibly even the seizure victim himself, who was obviously embarrassed and continuously glaring at me as if it were my fault he was hurt. She wondered why he had come between two closely parked cars, which were parked almost directly against the garage door, unless he knew the seizure was coming and might be ashamed to be seen in public in that condition. He may try to claim that I had assaulted him, and given the location and his condition, I probably would have believed it myself if I had been a passerby. 

Another Korean man came by, and when my girlfriend explained what happened he told us to leave and that he would stay with the young man until help arrived. She said that the man felt the same way she did, and that it would be in my best interest to leave. 

It's in my nature to help someone who is hurt, and it is also my job, but I can't understand a culture that would defame another person's character to save face and avoid embarrassment. I don't know if he would have made any false claims against me or not ( I like to think that he wouldn't have), but I'm grateful that my girlfriend was there to ensure my safety from the potential of ruthless slander and a ruined life, all because I cared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m a little late, but I&#8217;ve found myself nodding in agreement and shaking my head in disbelief as I&#8217;ve scrolled through this thread. Surprisingly, not all Koreans are oblivious or in denial of this &#8220;screw the wae guk in&#8221; phenomenon. </p>
<p>I was in Sillim with my girlfriend, a Korean citizen, walking through one of the tight alleys between the main roads when we heard a loud crash against an aluminum garage type door. There were cars parked tightly along the building inches from the door, so we couldn&#8217;t see what was happening, but as we passed the area of the crash, we noticed a young man lying face down on the ground between two cars having a seizure. I am a medical professional in the army, so my first instinct was to help him and ensure that he doesn&#8217;t recieve any injuries during the seizure. His face was against a metal drain grate and when I turned him over onto his back I could see that his nose was broken and his face was covered in blood. I stayed next to him and waited for the seizure to end, then asked my girlfriend to translate as I asked him if he needed any help getting to a doctor to treat his nose. He didn&#8217;t respond, and looked extremely embarrassed&#8230;almost angry. He had another small seizure and we stayed with him until it ended so that he would not hurt himself any more. He never said anything to either of us, but simply glared like we had done something wrong to him. My girlfriend quickly said that we should leave, because I might get into trouble. I didn&#8217;t understand why, and I didn&#8217;t want to leave because he obviously didn&#8217;t have any medication and he could have another seizure at any moment. She explained to me that from an outsiders perspective it looked like I had severely beaten the guy, and being an American could instigate alot of problems from potential &#8220;witnesses&#8221; and possibly even the seizure victim himself, who was obviously embarrassed and continuously glaring at me as if it were my fault he was hurt. She wondered why he had come between two closely parked cars, which were parked almost directly against the garage door, unless he knew the seizure was coming and might be ashamed to be seen in public in that condition. He may try to claim that I had assaulted him, and given the location and his condition, I probably would have believed it myself if I had been a passerby. </p>
<p>Another Korean man came by, and when my girlfriend explained what happened he told us to leave and that he would stay with the young man until help arrived. She said that the man felt the same way she did, and that it would be in my best interest to leave. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s in my nature to help someone who is hurt, and it is also my job, but I can&#8217;t understand a culture that would defame another person&#8217;s character to save face and avoid embarrassment. I don&#8217;t know if he would have made any false claims against me or not ( I like to think that he wouldn&#8217;t have), but I&#8217;m grateful that my girlfriend was there to ensure my safety from the potential of ruthless slander and a ruined life, all because I cared.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZDave</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-173365</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-173365</guid>
		<description>Shattered:  My buddy, the Korean American officer was going about his business, shopping at the PX and there was no probable cause for him to be approached by an MP and certainly no reason to ask him to produce an ID card. He was quite simply racially profiled and asked to produce his ID and a receipt for his purchases by a foolish racist 2ID soldier.  As it turned the MP was off duty from his unit in the 2ID in Yongsan so he had absolutely no authority and certainly no jurisdiction to ask anyone for an ID card on Yongsan.  He was not acting under orders and had no authority but was indeed "out of control" and acting illegaly. My friend played it exactly as he should have as a professional military officer. That young MP was bad news and abused his power, position  and authority.  Unlike Captain Kim's story, this one involves both illegal and racist behavior on the part of the young GI which was exactly how his commander saw it as well.  

Fortunately the Army did not wash my friend out and  he went on to have an illustrious military career and contributed greatly to our national security at the highest levels and put his life at risk on a number of occasions in the service of his country, the United States of America.  As an MP officer, my buddy simply had a strong aversion to MPs who abused their authority and in my experience he would have certainly dealt just as strongly with a Korean American MP who similarly abused his authority and position but you'll have to take my word for that. 

CPT Kim, loved your story too (almost too good to be true) but strongly disagree with Brendan Carr's comments.  Your story involved the kind of racial stereotyping I am learning from this blog one might expect from Shattered (ignorant but not illegal) and you did indeed handle it very well.  My buddy's story bordered on racism and the MP behavior was and illegal abuse of authority and that called for a tougher response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shattered:  My buddy, the Korean American officer was going about his business, shopping at the PX and there was no probable cause for him to be approached by an MP and certainly no reason to ask him to produce an ID card. He was quite simply racially profiled and asked to produce his ID and a receipt for his purchases by a foolish racist 2ID soldier.  As it turned the MP was off duty from his unit in the 2ID in Yongsan so he had absolutely no authority and certainly no jurisdiction to ask anyone for an ID card on Yongsan.  He was not acting under orders and had no authority but was indeed &#8220;out of control&#8221; and acting illegaly. My friend played it exactly as he should have as a professional military officer. That young MP was bad news and abused his power, position  and authority.  Unlike Captain Kim&#8217;s story, this one involves both illegal and racist behavior on the part of the young GI which was exactly how his commander saw it as well.  </p>
<p>Fortunately the Army did not wash my friend out and  he went on to have an illustrious military career and contributed greatly to our national security at the highest levels and put his life at risk on a number of occasions in the service of his country, the United States of America.  As an MP officer, my buddy simply had a strong aversion to MPs who abused their authority and in my experience he would have certainly dealt just as strongly with a Korean American MP who similarly abused his authority and position but you&#8217;ll have to take my word for that. </p>
<p>CPT Kim, loved your story too (almost too good to be true) but strongly disagree with Brendan Carr&#8217;s comments.  Your story involved the kind of racial stereotyping I am learning from this blog one might expect from Shattered (ignorant but not illegal) and you did indeed handle it very well.  My buddy&#8217;s story bordered on racism and the MP behavior was and illegal abuse of authority and that called for a tougher response.</p>
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		<title>By: shattered</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172503</link>
		<dc:creator>shattered</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172503</guid>
		<description>I don't know the rules on how this is done, but it seems only reasonable that a MP in uniform or even without uniform should be able to ask anybody on an overseas US Military base to produce ID. Maybe I don't understand the security situation, but it makes sence to me. 

So a off duty MP asked to see ID. Seems reasonable. Did your Korean friend have his rank tatooed on his forehead? How was that MP supposed to know. Your Korean friend seems to have real issues. I hope the military washes him out before its too late. 

Also, last I heard its Koreans that are running all the black marketing. Unless you think some fresh off the farm GI who just lands for his one year tour in Korea is setting up his own little black market operation. So with that in mind, asknig Koreans for their ID is logical too. 

It seems that the Korean was the racist here. I doubt he would have f-ed over that MP if he was another Korean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know the rules on how this is done, but it seems only reasonable that a MP in uniform or even without uniform should be able to ask anybody on an overseas US Military base to produce ID. Maybe I don&#8217;t understand the security situation, but it makes sence to me. </p>
<p>So a off duty MP asked to see ID. Seems reasonable. Did your Korean friend have his rank tatooed on his forehead? How was that MP supposed to know. Your Korean friend seems to have real issues. I hope the military washes him out before its too late. </p>
<p>Also, last I heard its Koreans that are running all the black marketing. Unless you think some fresh off the farm GI who just lands for his one year tour in Korea is setting up his own little black market operation. So with that in mind, asknig Koreans for their ID is logical too. </p>
<p>It seems that the Korean was the racist here. I doubt he would have f-ed over that MP if he was another Korean.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog)</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172488</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Carr (Korea Law Blog)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172488</guid>
		<description>I think Cpt KIM handled his awkward situation with more grace and goodwill than the Korean-American officer in DMZDave's story. Have a sense of humor about things and everything gets more tolerable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Cpt KIM handled his awkward situation with more grace and goodwill than the Korean-American officer in DMZDave&#8217;s story. Have a sense of humor about things and everything gets more tolerable.</p>
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		<title>By: Cpt KIM</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172433</link>
		<dc:creator>Cpt KIM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172433</guid>
		<description>Shattered,

FYI, the accident took place in Cook County suburb of Chicago in mid 80's.  All Police officers were all Whites and thank God that they were all professional and did their job unlike Korean Police.  My mother does not drink.

DMZDave,

Similar thing happened to me in Taegu when a newly arrived 2LT tried to order me to pick up his duffel bags.  I was in my PT uniform outside of my unit bldg.  I just say "Yes Sir!" and did what he asked me to do.  Once we entered the orderly room, he saw the company commander's photo and realized that I am his new commander.  He later apolosized and explained to me that he thought I was a KATUSA b/c he heard me speaking Korean to other KATUSA soldiers.  I thanked him that he thought I looked that young to be a KATUSA.  I was over 30 years old at that time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shattered,</p>
<p>FYI, the accident took place in Cook County suburb of Chicago in mid 80&#8217;s.  All Police officers were all Whites and thank God that they were all professional and did their job unlike Korean Police.  My mother does not drink.</p>
<p>DMZDave,</p>
<p>Similar thing happened to me in Taegu when a newly arrived 2LT tried to order me to pick up his duffel bags.  I was in my PT uniform outside of my unit bldg.  I just say &#8220;Yes Sir!&#8221; and did what he asked me to do.  Once we entered the orderly room, he saw the company commander&#8217;s photo and realized that I am his new commander.  He later apolosized and explained to me that he thought I was a KATUSA b/c he heard me speaking Korean to other KATUSA soldiers.  I thanked him that he thought I looked that young to be a KATUSA.  I was over 30 years old at that time.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZDave</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172368</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172368</guid>
		<description>To be fair, I have another favorite story of pride and prejudice, police and Korea. I don't know what it is about the Land of the Morning Calm that causes police and MPs to lose their minds.  

I have a good buddy who was, at the time. a Korean America MP officer. One day as he stepped out of the PX in Yongsan he was confronted by a really stupid, off duty MP who for some unknown reason made a career ending decision and demanded to see my friend's receipt and military identification.  My buddy calmly responded, "OK, here's how we're going to play this. I'm going to show you my ID and the receipt for my purchases and then you are going to show me your ID. Everytime you refer to me from this moment forward, you will call me 'sir' and after you see my identification, you are going to accompany me to the Yongsan military police station where you will be placed in confinement until your commander is able to come pick you up and while you are waiting you can reflect on what MOS you may want to pursue because I promise you, you aren't going to be an MP after today."  It was truly one of those beautiful moments in life. Ironically my buddy had actually commanded the kid's MP company several  years before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, I have another favorite story of pride and prejudice, police and Korea. I don&#8217;t know what it is about the Land of the Morning Calm that causes police and MPs to lose their minds.  </p>
<p>I have a good buddy who was, at the time. a Korean America MP officer. One day as he stepped out of the PX in Yongsan he was confronted by a really stupid, off duty MP who for some unknown reason made a career ending decision and demanded to see my friend&#8217;s receipt and military identification.  My buddy calmly responded, &#8220;OK, here&#8217;s how we&#8217;re going to play this. I&#8217;m going to show you my ID and the receipt for my purchases and then you are going to show me your ID. Everytime you refer to me from this moment forward, you will call me &#8217;sir&#8217; and after you see my identification, you are going to accompany me to the Yongsan military police station where you will be placed in confinement until your commander is able to come pick you up and while you are waiting you can reflect on what MOS you may want to pursue because I promise you, you aren&#8217;t going to be an MP after today.&#8221;  It was truly one of those beautiful moments in life. Ironically my buddy had actually commanded the kid&#8217;s MP company several  years before.</p>
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		<title>By: shattered</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172332</link>
		<dc:creator>shattered</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172332</guid>
		<description>"As to [ Cpt Kim’s] accident; I gotta call BS."

Yep, a KKK convention of random people in a parking lot  is hard to swallow. Anybody who has seen a Korean in a car accident will tell you that Koreans will yell bloody murder in order to intimidate people. The more guilty the Korea the more hell they raise.  I suspect Kim's mom was drunk on Suju.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As to [ Cpt Kim’s] accident; I gotta call BS.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep, a KKK convention of random people in a parking lot  is hard to swallow. Anybody who has seen a Korean in a car accident will tell you that Koreans will yell bloody murder in order to intimidate people. The more guilty the Korea the more hell they raise.  I suspect Kim&#8217;s mom was drunk on Suju.</p>
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		<title>By: shattered</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172331</link>
		<dc:creator>shattered</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172331</guid>
		<description>"It was shattered, not me, who passed by the accident. "


LOL.IT WAS SHATTERD! IT WAS SHATTERED! I would have thoght you had more class then to blame me for things I have nothing to do with. You are becoming more and more Korean everyday.

I guess if my dog goes missing I should blame you? Don't fear chicken, I wont do that. (can I ask the same?, or have you sold your pride for rotten cabbage?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It was shattered, not me, who passed by the accident. &#8221;</p>
<p>LOL.IT WAS SHATTERD! IT WAS SHATTERED! I would have thoght you had more class then to blame me for things I have nothing to do with. You are becoming more and more Korean everyday.</p>
<p>I guess if my dog goes missing I should blame you? Don&#8217;t fear chicken, I wont do that. (can I ask the same?, or have you sold your pride for rotten cabbage?)</p>
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		<title>By: DMZDave</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172312</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/16/violence-against-foreigners-in-hongdae-continues/#comment-172312</guid>
		<description>Chickenhead:  Good stoires. Sorry about the mix-up. Glad you continue to act the way your momma raised you with some obvious exceptions I'm sure.  Feeling around for a body on the bottom of the Han River would definitely call for some heavy soju pain reliever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chickenhead:  Good stoires. Sorry about the mix-up. Glad you continue to act the way your momma raised you with some obvious exceptions I&#8217;m sure.  Feeling around for a body on the bottom of the Han River would definitely call for some heavy soju pain reliever.</p>
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