Comments on: Top Five Lessons Learned from the Tragedy of 2002 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/ Korea From North to South Fri, 10 Feb 2012 23:07:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: New USFK Website Review http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-250027 New USFK Website Review Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:58:13 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-250027 [...] is about time, but finely USFK has updated their website. Some of you may remember that I have been critical in the past of the USFK website. The new website is a big improvement over the old though some of the old [...] [...] is about time, but finely USFK has updated their website. Some of you may remember that I have been critical in the past of the USFK website. The new website is a big improvement over the old though some of the old [...]

]]> By: USinKorea http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-227213 USinKorea Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:45:34 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-227213 I would disagree - but in this type of discussion - it is a matter of focus more than anything. I'd say there were two primary forces that caused the level of protests in 2002: the masses and the media. The civic groups are out there 24/7. They do jump onto every issue. They try to gin up EVERYTHING. If there is a fatal car accident involving a GI - regardless of the reason for the accident -- an NGO member will be one of the first people on the scene with the standard quotes about how their group will make sure the Korean police handle the investigation and the GI will be held to Korean justice if wrongdoing is found - even if he's the dead one... But, 95% of these attempts by the NGOs results in -- nothing. Nothing more than a minor reminder to Koreans why the US is bad for it. An NGO effort doesn't take off - unless the masses are primed at that time to join them. And at times, the media is primed to join them too. That is what we saw in 2002. After the World Cup (and earlier Ohno Olympics and earlier the Axis of Evil Speech), Korean society was ready to go nuts to express K-Power they felt surging through them. And the members of the media must have felt the pride too, because they jumped on the bandwagon early. I would disagree – but in this type of discussion – it is a matter of focus more than anything.

I'd say there were two primary forces that caused the level of protests in 2002: the masses and the media.

The civic groups are out there 24/7. They do jump onto every issue. They try to gin up EVERYTHING. If there is a fatal car accident involving a GI – regardless of the reason for the accident — an NGO member will be one of the first people on the scene with the standard quotes about how their group will make sure the Korean police handle the investigation and the GI will be held to Korean justice if wrongdoing is found – even if he's the dead one…

But, 95% of these attempts by the NGOs results in — nothing. Nothing more than a minor reminder to Koreans why the US is bad for it.

An NGO effort doesn't take off – unless the masses are primed at that time to join them.

And at times, the media is primed to join them too.

That is what we saw in 2002. After the World Cup (and earlier Ohno Olympics and earlier the Axis of Evil Speech), Korean society was ready to go nuts to express K-Power they felt surging through them.

And the members of the media must have felt the pride too, because they jumped on the bandwagon early.

]]> By: Guitard http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-227209 Guitard Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:32:07 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-227209 95% of the turmoil that resulted from this incident was a direct result of the dissident group involvement. There are several "professional" dissidents in Korea ~ who literally make a living by operating in that capacity. When the group they're leading begins to loose its steam and disband, they find a new cause and a start a new group. They go on funded trips to Okinawa and Germany to consult with other anti-US forces dissident groups. That it the goal for many of them - to reach that level where they can travel and enjoy some of the excesses of life. And make no doubt about it - to some extent - North Korea is involved in this. 95% of the turmoil that resulted from this incident was a direct result of the dissident group involvement.

There are several "professional" dissidents in Korea ~ who literally make a living by operating in that capacity. When the group they're leading begins to loose its steam and disband, they find a new cause and a start a new group. They go on funded trips to Okinawa and Germany to consult with other anti-US forces dissident groups. That it the goal for many of them – to reach that level where they can travel and enjoy some of the excesses of life.

And make no doubt about it – to some extent – North Korea is involved in this.

]]> By: silentgrayfellow http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-227119 silentgrayfellow Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:03:37 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-227119 If I may pile on here, Matthew Rabinowicz, what is your response? If I may pile on here, Matthew Rabinowicz, what is your response?

]]> By: Ask a Korean!: Why do Koreans Complain about U.S. Military in Korea? http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-226613 Ask a Korean!: Why do Koreans Complain about U.S. Military in Korea? Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:17:41 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-226613 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] presence would be minimal. (See, for example, an excellent analysis from ROK Drop about the lessons learned from the Armored Car Incident.)Got a question or a comment for the Korean? Ask away at askakorean@hotmail.com. Posted by the [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] presence would be minimal. (See, for example, an excellent analysis from ROK Drop about the lessons learned from the Armored Car Incident.)Got a question or a comment for the Korean? Ask away at askakorean@hotmail.com. Posted by the [...]

]]> By: GI Myths: The 2002 Armored Vehicle Accident http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-172534 GI Myths: The 2002 Armored Vehicle Accident Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:35:12 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-172534 [...] Next Posting: Top Five Lessons Learned from the Tragedy [...] [...] Next Posting: Top Five Lessons Learned from the Tragedy [...]

]]> By: GI Korea http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-169888 GI Korea Wed, 18 Jun 2008 13:20:33 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-169888 Matt, the driver was an American servicemember which the anti-US groups tried to get the family of the deceased woman to join their anti-US efforts but they denounced the anti-US groups and forgave the driver because it was obviously an accident: <a href="http://rokdrop.com/2005/06/24/family-forgives-driver/" rel="nofollow">http://rokdrop.com/2005/06/24/family-forgives-dri...</a> Likewise the families of the two girls killed in 2002 have also tried to get the anti-US groups to leave them alone with no success: <a href="http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/06/13/2008061300286.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/06...</a> Matt, the driver was an American servicemember which the anti-US groups tried to get the family of the deceased woman to join their anti-US efforts but they denounced the anti-US groups and forgave the driver because it was obviously an accident:

http://rokdrop.com/2005/06/24/family-forgives-dri…

Likewise the families of the two girls killed in 2002 have also tried to get the anti-US groups to leave them alone with no success:

http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/06…

]]> By: matt@occidentlism.or http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-169853 matt@occidentlism.or Wed, 18 Jun 2008 12:13:58 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-169853 This might be my foggy memory at work, but if I recall correctly the 2005 road accident involving a USFK truck had a Korean national as a driver, and that was quite a big thing in not stirring up anti-US sentiment. Correct me if I am wrong. This might be my foggy memory at work, but if I recall correctly the 2005 road accident involving a USFK truck had a Korean national as a driver, and that was quite a big thing in not stirring up anti-US sentiment. Correct me if I am wrong.

]]> By: GI Korea http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-169761 GI Korea Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:20:55 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-169761 Matthew obviously knows little about this accident and could start to learn more by reading my full posting on the accident and learn things like who got reprimanded before making ignorant comments: <a href="http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/13/gi-myths-the-2002-armored-vehicle-accident/" rel="nofollow">http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/13/gi-myths-the-2002-a...</a> Matthew might also want to read more about the SOFA agreement before making ignorant comments about it as well: <a href="http://rokdrop.com/2008/02/22/gi-myths-the-unfair-us-korea-sofa/" rel="nofollow">http://rokdrop.com/2008/02/22/gi-myths-the-unfair...</a> A ROK Army soldier in a similar accident would never had stood trial in a Korean court much less the fact that the ROK government has SOFA's signed with many other countries where ROK soldiers are not allowed to be tried in the host nation's civilian courts for any incidents committed on or off duty. I could go on but it is better to read the links above. Matthew obviously knows little about this accident and could start to learn more by reading my full posting on the accident and learn things like who got reprimanded before making ignorant comments:

http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/13/gi-myths-the-2002-a…

Matthew might also want to read more about the SOFA agreement before making ignorant comments about it as well:

http://rokdrop.com/2008/02/22/gi-myths-the-unfair…

A ROK Army soldier in a similar accident would never had stood trial in a Korean court much less the fact that the ROK government has SOFA's signed with many other countries where ROK soldiers are not allowed to be tried in the host nation's civilian courts for any incidents committed on or off duty.

I could go on but it is better to read the links above.

]]> By: usinkorea http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/comment-page-1/#comment-169758 usinkorea Wed, 18 Jun 2008 06:04:23 +0000 http://rokdrop.com/2008/06/17/top-five-lessons-learned-from-the-tragedy-of-2002/#comment-169758 My laugh out loud of the day: "Korean law dictates that all drivers have an obligation to drive safely." My moment to point out some lies: "You’re charged, you’re likely to be found guilty, and you’re likely to be required to compensate that victim or his/her family, in addition to serving some other punishment. None of this happened." In Korea, if you get in an accident, you are charged with a "crime" but not jailed. When you reach a monetary settlement with the other party - it is over. USFK + the SK gov + the two families of the girls reached a settlement less than 30 days after the accident. The SOFA is not some extraordinary document invented by the US to force on Korea. It is a standard type of document nations create when they send official government parties to other nations. Korea has them with nations where it sends peace keepers and troops and other such orgs. Korea is no longer the Hermit Kingdom. It needs to learn about obligations under signed treaties and agreements ---- take Cows Gone Wild!! Hysteria as one example. If a Canadian soldier came to my hometown, was driving an armored vehicle in a convey, ran over two young American girls, and was sent to a Canadian military court per an agreement the US gov. signed with Canada, I'd think things went as they should.... If I were a Korean, and a Korean soldier in Iraq, toying around with his M-16, pulled the trigger thinking it was unloaded and killed an Iraqi, and the Korean was sent to Korean military justice, per an agreement between Iraq and South Korea, I'd think things were handled as they should... As for the reprimands and other things, it just goes to show how little you have looked for the actual facts in this case. Even the Korean media tracked down one of the drivers years later to harass him at his local convience store as a follow up... My laugh out loud of the day: "Korean law dictates that all drivers have an obligation to drive safely."

My moment to point out some lies:

"You’re charged, you’re likely to be found guilty, and you’re likely to be required to compensate that victim or his/her family, in addition to serving some other punishment. None of this happened."

In Korea, if you get in an accident, you are charged with a "crime" but not jailed. When you reach a monetary settlement with the other party – it is over.

USFK + the SK gov + the two families of the girls reached a settlement less than 30 days after the accident.

The SOFA is not some extraordinary document invented by the US to force on Korea. It is a standard type of document nations create when they send official government parties to other nations. Korea has them with nations where it sends peace keepers and troops and other such orgs.

Korea is no longer the Hermit Kingdom. It needs to learn about obligations under signed treaties and agreements —- take Cows Gone Wild!! Hysteria as one example.

If a Canadian soldier came to my hometown, was driving an armored vehicle in a convey, ran over two young American girls, and was sent to a Canadian military court per an agreement the US gov. signed with Canada, I'd think things went as they should….

If I were a Korean, and a Korean soldier in Iraq, toying around with his M-16, pulled the trigger thinking it was unloaded and killed an Iraqi, and the Korean was sent to Korean military justice, per an agreement between Iraq and South Korea, I'd think things were handled as they should…

As for the reprimands and other things, it just goes to show how little you have looked for the actual facts in this case.

Even the Korean media tracked down one of the drivers years later to harass him at his local convience store as a follow up…

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