UPDATE: One Free Korea asks:
You know, I’m beginning to question whether all of this sunshine and engagement really is changing the character of North Korean society or its regime. Wasn’t this guy watching the New York Philharmonic concert?
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Original Posting:
So what are the odds there will be candlelight protests over this?:
The government on Friday suspended tourism to North Korea’s Mount Geumgang after a South Korean tourist at the resort was shot dead by a North Korean soldier earlier in the day.
Unification Ministry spokesman Kim Ho-nyoun announced in a news briefing that Seoul will shelve the program starting Saturday until a probe into the incident is completed, adding that the government will take necessary measures based on the result of the inquiry.
He said tourists who are still at Mt. Geumgang will be allowed to finish out their tour of the resort before returning home to South Korea.
Expressing regret over the incident, the official hoped that North Korea will cooperate with the investigation.
The 53-year-old South Korean woman was shot to death by a North Korean soldier at around 4:30 a.m. Friday after crossing into a restricted North Korean military zone.
According to the ministry, she was taking a stroll at a beach near the Mount Geumgang resort when the incident took place. [KBS Global]
Here is a map of the area that the woman was killed at:
It happened very close to the hotel which leads me to believe she crossed some barrier that is supposed to be used to contain the tourists at the resort. It was 4:30 in the morning which means it was dark and she may not have been able to read any warning signs. Even if she knew she wasn’t supposed to cross the barrier it still isn’t any excuse to shoot the woman dead. Why couldn’t the soldiers just walk up to her and detain her. It isn’t like a 53 year old woman is going to be able to out run them.
Robert Koehler is reporting that already the usual suspects are making excuses:
My favorite comment, however, was by an official from the Korean Progressive Alliance — yes, the very same Korean Progressive Alliance which had its office raided in connection with the US beef protests — who said:
Geumgangsan is North Korean territory, and we must adhere well to the standards set by North and South… Concerning the person who died, we cannot help but feel regret, but it’s not desirable for North and South to debate right and wrong over this matter.
After all, she was only an unarmed civilian shot in the back by Stalinists. Not like she died from eating US beef or anything. [Marmot's Hole]
It will be interesting to see how this plays out especially in comparison to what everyone could imagine what would happen if a US soldier shot a Korean civilian that trespassed on to a US military installation.
It is to early to tell what is going to happen but considering the South Korean public could care less when six of its servicemembers were premeditatedly murdered by North Korea why would they care about what happened to this 53 year old woman?
Popularity: 4%
5:25 am on July 12th, 2008 1
7:20 am on July 12th, 2008 2
Unreal! I was thinking the same thing GI. What would happen if a South Korean citizen was shot dead while tresspassing on the restricted part of the flight line at Osan?
North Korea or not, there’s absolutely no excuse for shooting her dead. WTF?
11:54 am on July 12th, 2008 3
No doubt the North Koreans will be exonerated. The leftist in the South are not about to condemn their comrades in the North, and I find it unlikely that moderates and conservatives will want to make a big issue out of this. If people are foolish enough to holiday in a place like North Korea then they have to be prepared to suffer the possible consequences of such a reckless decision.
1:17 pm on July 12th, 2008 4
Protest? Why protest. The 1 in four billion odds of getting mad cow is much more importnat then a dead guy. Who cares if a Korean kills a Korean.
3:30 pm on July 12th, 2008 5
Hey netizens, will you demand an appology from Kim Jong Ill? How about compensation for the victim’s family?
Hey Cheong Wa Dae, are we going to see another disappointing reaction by 2MB? Probably so. 2MB wouldn’t stand-up to the candle burners, so I doubt we’ll see any testicular fortitude from Cheong Wa Dae on this issue either.
Hey Hankyoreh, will we see a flaming editorial over this? Will you take another poll of public opinion?
4:02 pm on July 12th, 2008 6
And the lefties keep talking about all the “progress” they made with the Sunshine Policy and the “warming of relations between North & South”. We all well know the Geumgang project exists, like so many other sham NK-SK projects, only to funnel large amounts of cash to fatboy Kim.
“Warming of relations”? Pffft!
I guess the Norks take the Beatles’ philosophy- “Happiness is a warm gun, bang bang, shoot shoot”!
I made the Geumgang trip in 2002 and I must say it sounds like there have been some changes since then.
-We were never allowed to roam around freely like this ajumma did. A pre-dawn walk on her own? WTF? We were not allowed to leave the hotel complex on our own.
-They were very strict about what we could and could not take pictures of- no pics of any Nork buildings or people. I and several others snuck a few snaps were we could.
-Every “off limits” area was guarded by soldiers. One Korean guy walked right up to two of them at a gate and blatanty snapped a picture. They yelled at him and took him into custody, most likely to remove his film. They did not draw their weapons at him, though.
-The locals, haggard as they were,stared at us in slack jawed bewilderment. We were ordered not to take pictures of them, though. The only Norks we were allowed to talk to were propaganda robots, well washed, dressed in clean clothes & smiling, stationed at each of the stopping points.
All in all, it was a very interesting trip. Honestly, I don’t give 2 sh*ts about the mountain itself. I was there to see North Korea. Mostly, you don’t see much real North Korea. They try to keep you away as much as possible. One of the f*cked up things is that they have actually carved huge commie slogans like “Kim Il Sung is the friend of victory” (don’t really understand that one) and “self reliance” (the irony is not lost on that one) and many others on the bare rock faces of the mountain. They have defaced their prized mountain with ridiculous commie graffiti that is visible from miles away!
It was a very interesting trip, but to know that the money I spent on it- $600 for 3 days- went straight into fatboy Kim’s pocket still makes me uneasy!
5:01 pm on July 12th, 2008 7
Well, according to the articles I’ve seen, the tourist
1) crossed some barrier she wasn’t supposed to
2) ignored warnings issued after crossing said barrier and before getting shot
While I’m not saying it was a good reason to shoot her, the question is: would an American, or any other, soldier shoot a person in such a circumstance if they had an order to first give warning to trespassers on some area of land and, if the warning was not heeded, shoot said trespasser? My guess would be yes. Orders are orders, and soldiers are expected to follow them, and this may simply be a case of that here.
I’m not saying that this justifies the killing of the tourist, but some perspective and more information is needed before simply criticizing North Korea (and I am no Korean leftist, btw). After all, the U.S. coalition in Iraq is known to have killed innocent civilians at Iraqi roadblocks for similar reasons - they didn’t heed warnings to stop.
Let’s wait for the facts, or various versions of the facts, to come out before spewing out random propoganda.
5:42 pm on July 12th, 2008 8
i think the point is really what SK will do about it… if she had died at an american base for doing the same thing she did in NK there would have been a lot of protests across SK… it wuld have been incorporated into the protests now etc… but this happened in NK so nothing will happen
6:51 pm on July 12th, 2008 9
Yes, that is exactly the point!
7:19 pm on July 12th, 2008 10
#7 Fair enough.
Comment #5 stands.
9:24 pm on July 12th, 2008 11
As an American citizen about to move to the ROK, with plans to visit DMZ, I am not upset at all. A shot in the leg, arm, etc., would have been preferable but truly, she had to have known the risk. At 4:30 am it makes me wonder if she was drunk. It is like any other law, so many people think is does not apply to them, but it does. She chose to break it and now she is dead. Not much sympathy just as I don’t for drunk drivers
10:18 pm on July 12th, 2008 12
Susan,
You are judging this woman based on North Korea’s account. There is CCTV evidence that she left the hotel at 4:30 AM, but beyond that there is no corroborating evidence of what happened after. You will find out after you move to the ROK that middle-aged and elderly Koreans often arise very early to exercise. It is also being reported in the media that the military installation was very close to the tourist beach and they were separated only by a green fence. In the faint light of pre-dawn, the woman may not have seen signs that she was entering a forbidden military zone.
11:31 pm on July 12th, 2008 13
12:48 am on July 13th, 2008 14
Q: How is ajuma like the letter “B”?
A: They both fall next to the C with two holes in ‘em.
Q: How are they different?
A: The B still exists…
…because it doesn’t go lurking around at 4:30 in the morning in a country filled with watchful armed soldiers that isn’t known for its predictability, tolerance or sense of humor.
Crappy deal? Sure. Surprising? Not so much.
Darwin simply nods his head in approval and looks for the next guy who climbs the zoo fence to pet the lion.
1:53 am on July 13th, 2008 15
It’s interesting how much our thought processes are warped when dealing with North Korea. People want to blame the woman for going into a “restricted” area. I agree — bad move to wander around North Korea by yourself. However, it is odd that we seem to be accepting as perfectly normal that this tourist resort is surrounded by “restricted” military areas and armed guards with automatic weapons! Yes, the woman shouldn’t have gone wandering around… but how is it we are ignoring the 500 pound Gorilla here — that very few countries would stick a tourist resort in the middle of a “military zone” and pretend that that is a normal state of affairs.
So U.S. beef (which has not killed anyone) is apparently dangerous enough to spark huge protests, but sending millions of South Korean tourists into a resort surrounded by the North Korean military doesn’t strike anyone as anything of a safety concern??
Stunning logic.
2:45 am on July 13th, 2008 16
5:12 am on July 13th, 2008 17
It really makes no difference about age or habits. I have no doubt that she knew the boundaries. Stupid or drunk–in this case, ignorance is not permitted.
5:25 am on July 13th, 2008 18
Anyway, she broke the North Korean law and good riddance
6:06 am on July 13th, 2008 19
Since you have not visited the Geumgang resort, you do not know what the boundary looked like and since we have only the North Korean report, we do not know for sure that she crossed it willfully. Ignorance is not permitted.
6:09 am on July 13th, 2008 20
#7 if the US military was to shoot every trespasser on our military bases we would have quite a body count by now. Take for example these two civilians on Osan trespassing where the U2 is stored:
http://rokdrop.com/2008/02/23/osan-officials-deny-abuse-claims/
Instead of being shot they were tackled. Why didn’t the North Koreans tackle her? USFK bases and training areas have been overrun with civilian protesters before including in 2002 where the protesters injured 8 US soldiers when they were throwing cinder blocks at them and hitting them in the head in order to get them to raise their riot control shields in order to strike their bodies and get through the hole in the fence.
It isn’t just in Korea either. When I was stationed at Ft. Benning I saw leftist protesters storm the front gate and throw red paint on the gate guards in protest of the School of the Americas on the post. We had hippies running around post all day planting sun flowers until they could all be rounded up and arrested. I do not know of one instance where the US military has shot someone for trespassing on a military installation. Maybe it has happened if so is sure hasn’t been recent.
Also comparing checkpoint duty in Iraq which was infamous for car bombs to checkpoint duty around a hotel in North Korea is a very poor comparison.
7:07 am on July 13th, 2008 21
Off-topic:
GI, Historically speaking, the US military DID shoot a lot of Koreans for trespassing up to the time of the first SOFA agreement and then it stopped.
Lots of violent protests from the locals documented prior to the SOFA. Many of these incidents are still thrown up to the USFK as “proof” of the crimes committed by the Americans. Prior to the SOFA, the GIs were given court-martials, but the claims are that they were simply shipped out of country by the US.
7:24 am on July 13th, 2008 22
The shooting of civilians that I have heard about back in the 1960’s were near the DMZ which was infamous for infiltrators at the time which bombed barracks and ambushed USFK soldiers for example.
Far different from manning a checkpoint at a hotel where these North Koreans shot the Korean civilian.
8:12 am on July 13th, 2008 23
Now that the other tourists are back in South Korea, some of them are talking to the media. There was no wire fence, only a green fence that was passable at low tide as evidenced by photos in this story about the North’s refusal to allow an investigation of the site and demand for an apology:
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LS2D&mid=sec&sid1=100&sid2=268&oid=001&aid=0002171733
The Chosun Ilbo is also reporting that a Korean minister was apprehended and returned after wandering into the same restricted area last year:
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/07/12/2008071200475.html
A fellow tourist is claiming to be a witness, saying he saw a woman walk past him at 4:30. 10-15 minutes later, he heard two shots 5-10 seconds apart and saw 3 soldiers bent over a fallen woman:
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/07/12/2008071200394.html
12:16 pm on July 13th, 2008 24
Now, the North Korean government is demanding an apology from the South Korean government … saying South Korea is solely to blame for this incident:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25649469/
Only in the screwed up world of Sunshine Policy, US beef protests, FTA, West Sea naval battle, Dokdo, teacher unions, revisionist history, No Gun Ri, SOFA, and 6 Party Talks would you expect this to happen.
I’m surprised that the creators of South Park haven’t already sued both Koreas for alternate universe copyright infringement.
2:46 pm on July 13th, 2008 25
If they followed their rules of engagement in accordance with their current threat condition level, then there’s nothing wrong with it…we’d do the same thing. Shit happens.
3:46 pm on July 13th, 2008 26
She was just acting like every other Korean tourist. I wish everyone would learn from the NorKors and shoot the howling drunk Korean tourits when they misbehave. BLAM BLAM!
6:57 pm on July 13th, 2008 27
Hmmm…
“What would happen if a South Korean citizen was shot dead while tresspassing on the restricted part of the flight line at Osan?”
The important question to ask is, “Does North Korea recognize that USFK will not shoot a North Korean infiltrator dressed as a beef protester while dumping powdered plutonium, dimethylmercury aerosol or anthrax spoors?”
“However, it is odd that we seem to be accepting as perfectly normal that this tourist resort is surrounded by “restricted” military areas and armed guards with automatic weapons”
I thought we accepted that the WHOLE country is basically a restricted area with armed guards. For this reason, the perception of the situation is similar to when people leave the marked hiking trails and fall off a cliff. Unfortunate… but…
“In the faint light of pre-dawn, the woman may not have seen signs that she was entering a forbidden military zone.”
Tens of thousands of tourists, one boundary-crosser. She didn’t see it or the Rules Didn’t Apply To Her. You be the judge.
“So U.S. beef (which has not killed anyone) is apparently dangerous enough to spark huge protests”
Dig it! A gift from heaven! Now that a North Korea tour has killed approximately one more innocent Korean than American beef, no argument against the demonstrators can every be lost again! Kinda like my handgun being safer than Senator Kennedy’s car.
“I do not know of one instance where the US military has shot someone for trespassing on a military installation. ”
How shameful. Our police force has become militarized and has no problem attacking (and sometimes killing) the general population (even in their own homes) yet the military can’t shoot people of unknown motivation who came looking for problems on a military installation.
Sure, fascism sucks and not all hippie values are wrong… but… on a military installation, it should be open season on running-amok hippies. The medal should be a sunflower with peace symbol clusters… and the ribbon should be a DayGlo rainbow.
‘Hey, Bob, I see you got yet another kill.”
‘Yep. Ever since I put that ‘Free Pot Brownies’ sign right inside the restricted area I’ve been cleaning up on the hippies and Canadian English teachers.’
7:51 pm on July 13th, 2008 28
Sonagi and Jax, thanks for the updates. The shooting of this woman is beginning to sound even more outrageous but I would surprised if it leads to any outrage in the South Korean public.
8:51 pm on July 13th, 2008 29
[...] typical North Korean reaction to the killing of the South Korean civilian at the Geumgang Mountain Resort: But in the statement from a North Korean tourism bureau, Pyongyang [...]
11:30 pm on July 13th, 2008 30
TIME FOR A CANDLELIGHT VIGIL ABOUT SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS FOR ONCE.
1:01 am on July 14th, 2008 31
“Dig it! A gift from heaven! Now that a North Korea tour has killed approximately one more innocent Korean than American beef, no argument against the demonstrators can every be lost again! Kinda like my handgun being safer than Senator Kennedy’s car.”
Ahh, sarcasm, now there’s a good argument. Just as logical as the beef protests itself. Science? We don’t need no stickin’ science! We’ve got signs!
Not sure why you say no argument can be lost “again.” No argument against demonstrators has been lost to begin with. This is just one more illustration of how out of whack their priorities are and how nonsensical the reasons behind the protests are to begin with. If the concern is truly “safety,” clearly sticking a couple million South Koreans in the middle of a militarized zone should trump eating beef. But it doesn’t. Why? Beats me. Maybe you can explain it.
1:36 am on July 14th, 2008 32
She was at least the second. It was reported yesterday that last year a minister also wandered into the same area and was detained and released. I don’t think it was reported at the time and only came out now, so there may well have been others.
Korean netizens are angry. The most rec’d comments on related news threads at Naver are calling for mass candlelight vigils at Geumgangsan, one noting that not a single Korean has died from Mad Cow. A couple other commenters responding to the Korean version of the “let’s keep a cool head and not blame anyone” Hanky piece reminded the paper of its strong stance after two Koreans were forcibly detained on a US military base and wondered where the outrage was now.
There does seem to be a silent majority that is tired of the demos and wants normalcy. LMB is less than a year into office, and if he plays his cards right, I think he can overcome his current low popularity ratings and put leftists back on the defensive. The shooting death of Ms. Park and relations with North Korea would be a good start as there is palpable anger at the killing of a middle-aged housewife.
4:13 am on July 14th, 2008 33
Since you have not visited the Geumgang resort, you do not know what the boundary looked like and since we have only the North Korean report, we do not know for sure that she crossed it willfully. Ignorance is not permitted.
Did the North Koreans willfully drag her out of bed at 4:30 AM–did they make her cross boundaries? NO. Her choice and her mistake.
12:09 pm on July 14th, 2008 34
Susan other witnesses on the beach said there was no fence and that they were not aware it was a restricted area. Another person on the tour told the Korea Times that she had walked into the same area the day before with no issues and had no idea it was restricted either:
http://rokdrop.com/2008/07/13/north-korea-demands-apology-after-killing-south-korean-civilian/
12:31 pm on July 14th, 2008 35
GI,
I just put up a post at TMH with links to photos and maps of the area. There was a simple green fence that definitely does not look like something that would protect a military installation, and there is a tiny “Do not enter” sign on the far left, which would not be visible to beach walkers near the water. The Hankyoreh is reporting that on the previous day, six people also went past the fence into the restricted area, and there have been other trespassers. The North’s account of the woman walking 3.3 km in 20 minutes over sand is dubious. A witness has verified the location of the shooting, but it is highly unlikely that the woman walked as far into the restricted area as the North has claimed. Was a sentry trigger-happy or was this planned?
1:36 pm on July 14th, 2008 36
The North is just reminding everyone that they are the master and the puppy is the South.
3:51 pm on July 14th, 2008 37
[...] of the foreign-penned blogs in Korea are already fuming (here, here and here) in anticipation of a tempered South Korean [...]
6:12 pm on July 14th, 2008 38