By It never ceases to amaze me how stupid people can be:
On average, 46 percent of those surveyed said al Qaeda was responsible, 15 percent said the U.S. government, 7 percent said Israel and 7 percent said some other perpetrator…
The U.S. government was to blame, according to 23 percent of Germans and 15 percent of Italians… Israel was behind the attacks, said 43 percent of people in Egypt, 31 percent in Jordan and 19 percent in the Palestinian Territories. The U.S. government was blamed by 36 percent of Turks and 27 percent of Palestinians. In Mexico, 30 percent cited the U.S. government and 33 percent named al Qaeda.
I went through a training course with an Egyptian Major who was convinced that the US government was behind 9/11. I have heard the 9/11 conspiracy theories from other Arabs as well. However, does anyone have any idea why Mexico is filled with so many 9/11 conspiracy theorists?
12:52 pm on September 11th, 2008 1
Just read an article by some Leftist Flip who is trying to spread the conspiracy theories also…some people just have too much time on their hands.
http://www.tribune.net.ph/commentary/20080912com4.html
This idiot list Michael Moore, Rosie Odonnel, Martin Sheen, etc. as reliable personalities in the know. Perhaps this Clown should look at how screwed up his own country is before trying to analyze America???
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12:53 pm on September 11th, 2008 2
This NYT letter-to-the-editor said it perfectly:
To the Editor:
You say that many in the Middle East believe that the United States government or Israel was behind the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Perhaps we should not be too smug about ignorance in Cairo. How many Americans still seem to think that Saddam Hussein or Iran was involved in the 9/11 attacks?
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1:17 pm on September 11th, 2008 3
“Perhaps we should not be too smug about ignorance in Cairo. How many Americans still seem to think that Saddam Hussein or Iran was involved in the 9/11 attacks?”
I’m glad you quoted that letter from the NYT letter “Korean”.
I would also add that American shouldn’t be too smug about ingorance in Cairo or the rest of Arab world. After all, how many American still think that America’s “winning” in Iraq?
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1:29 pm on September 11th, 2008 4
Read Mike Ruppert’s “Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil,” and you will find out all the (best) answers.
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2:17 pm on September 11th, 2008 5
Caveat: I do not mean to be flip about 9/11 at all. Not at all. I work right next to the Ground Zero, and I get a daily reminder of what it was like. Today, the thousands of people heading to work in the morning were all rather quiet.
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3:43 pm on September 11th, 2008 6
Stupid people like to believe stupid conspiracy theories. It’s easier than understanding the truth.
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4:57 pm on September 11th, 2008 7
Calebrisi,
Not that this will do any good…but…
We won the war in Iraq several years ago. Hussein and his government and his military were taken out.
More recently, things have started to look positive for the reconstruction phase.
American society was rather pessimistic about Iraq until the surge started showing signs of settling things down.
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5:30 pm on September 11th, 2008 8
You’re right USinKorea, your assertions don’t make any good. That’s not because, however, I’m stubborn in the face of facts. Rather, it’s because those facts (i.e. “gains”) you cite are precarious and tenuous.
They can change on a dime at any time. They aren’t reversable nor do they have a momentum all of their own.
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5:40 pm on September 11th, 2008 9
Hussein could rise from the grave at any moment, reconstitute the size and scope of former armed forces, and really whoop some American ass….
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5:51 pm on September 11th, 2008 10
I don’t want to be too inflammatory, but to answer the question at the top of this post, it all goes back to Afghanistan in the 1980s.
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7:02 pm on September 11th, 2008 11
I don’t want to be too inflammatory, but it goes back to the 7th century…
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7:04 pm on September 11th, 2008 12
I dunno, but maybe some of those 15% believe the US government shoulders a lot of the responsibility for the attacks based on their policies in the Middle East and around the world. As a pacifist I don’t think violence or war (or quote-unquote terrorism) is ever justified, but people who make the case that the Japanese were responsible for Hiroshima—that there was no such thing as “innocents” in a total war—or that Japan can be excused for Pearl Harbor based on the US’s attempts to strangle Japan economically . . . well, 9/11 didn’t happen for no reason.
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7:17 pm on September 11th, 2008 13
“I don’t want to be too inflammatory, but it goes back to the 7th century…”
Cute joke for such a serious subject.
Chalmers Johnson:
“Osama bin Laden, the leading suspect as mastermind behind the carnage of September 11, is no more (or less) “evil” than his fellow creations of our CIA: Manuel Noriega, former commander of the Panama Defense Forces until George Bush père in late 1989 invaded his country and kidnapped him, or Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, whom we armed and backed so long as he was at war with Khomeini’s Iran and whose people we have bombed and starved for a decade in an incompetent effort to get rid of him. These men were once listed as “assets” of our clandestine services organization.
“Osama bin Laden joined our call for resistance to the Soviet Union’s 1979 invasion of Afghanistan and accepted our military training and equipment along with countless other mujahedeen “freedom fighters.” It was only after the Russians bombed Afghanistan back into the stone age and suffered a Vietnam-like defeat, and we turned our backs on the death and destruction we had helped cause, that he turned against us. The last straw as far as bin Laden was concerned was that, after the Gulf War, we based “infidel” American troops in Saudi Arabia to prop up its decadent, fiercely authoritarian regime. Ever since, bin Laden has been attempting to bring the things the CIA taught him home to the teachers. On September 11, he appears to have returned to his deadly project with a vengeance.”
Source: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20011015/johnson
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7:27 pm on September 11th, 2008 14
Lets not forget, “Pepsi Cola” has been been perceived as hiding a secret formula to destableize the palistinians as well. ( Reported “Truth” on palistinian TV). Yep, a lot of really good stuff coming from the mid east.
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7:36 pm on September 11th, 2008 15
I quote a professor emeritus from University of California, San Diego, one whose experience in Aisa goes back to the Korean War when he was a naval officer, and you give me Pepsi Cola conspiracy theory.
You’re not even trying.
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7:42 pm on September 11th, 2008 16
To follow up on the question posed at the top of this thread, it has been widely reported that US intelligence officials were well aware of a looming attack on the US in August 2001 and tried to impress the gravity of their fears upon George W. Bush, but apparently he was more interested in vactioning in Crawford, Texas than actually defending the nation.
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7:56 pm on September 11th, 2008 17
King Baeksu. It was widely reported to congress many years before it was reported to President Bush that a major attack was coming, and congress chose to do nothing, even though it was widely reported in the news. Reports that went unanswered and ignored. If you don’t like “Bush” thats fine, but the previous administration and congress were well aware of what was coming. I was alive in the 1990s and remember, were you?
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8:13 pm on September 11th, 2008 18
“The Out-of-Towner”
While Bush vacationed, 9/11 warnings went unheard.
By Fred Kaplan
April 14, 2004
In an otherwise dry day of hearings before the 9/11 commission, one brief bit of dialogue set off a sudden flash of clarity on the basic question of how our government let disaster happen.
The revelation came this morning, when CIA Director George Tenet was on the stand. Timothy Roemer, a former Democratic congressman, asked him when he first found out about the report from the FBI’s Minnesota field office that Zacarias Moussaoui, an Islamic jihadist, had been taking lessons on how to fly a 747. Tenet replied that he was briefed about the case on Aug. 23 or 24, 2001.
Roemer then asked Tenet if he mentioned Moussaoui to President Bush at one of their frequent morning briefings. Tenet replied, “I was not in briefings at this time.” Bush, he noted, “was on vacation.” He added that he didn’t see the president at all in August 2001. During the entire month, Bush was at his ranch in Texas. “You never talked with him?” Roemer asked. “No,” Tenet replied. By the way, for much of August, Tenet too was, as he put it, “on leave.”
And there you have it. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice has made a big point of the fact that Tenet briefed the president nearly every day. Yet at the peak moment of threat, the two didn’t talk at all. At a time when action was needed, and orders for action had to come from the top, the man at the top was resting undisturbed.
Throughout that summer, we now well know, Tenet, Richard Clarke, and several other officials were running around with their “hair on fire,” warning that al-Qaida was about to unleash a monumental attack. On Aug. 6, Bush was given the now-famous President’s Daily Brief (by one of Tenet’s underlings), warning that this attack might take place “inside the United States.” For the previous few years—as Philip Zelikow, the commission’s staff director, revealed this morning—the CIA had issued several warnings that terrorists might fly commercial airplanes into buildings or cities.
And now, we learn today, at this peak moment, Tenet hears about Moussaoui. Someone might have added 2 + 2 + 2 and possibly busted up the conspiracy. But the president was down on the ranch, taking it easy. Tenet wasn’t with him. Tenet never talked with him. Rice—as she has testified—wasn’t with Bush, either. He was on his own and, willfully, out of touch.
Source: http://www.slate.com/id/2098861/
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8:23 pm on September 11th, 2008 19
“Hussein could rise from the grave at any moment, reconstitute the size and scope of former armed forces, and really whoop some American ass….”
You never cease to amaze me USinKorea.
In no way was I remotely asserting that Saddam would rise from the grave, mobilize and armed force and “whoop some American ass..”
To spell it out for you, it’s the sectarian violence and other centrifugal forces (i.e. Shiite militias, the end of Sadr’s cease-fire, pissed Sunni Awakening Council memebers, Kurdish sepratism, Iranian special groups)that I’m talking about.
Let’s try and get out of the “I still think it’s April 2003″ mentality here buddy. You’re only making a fool of yourself if you don’t.
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9:17 pm on September 11th, 2008 20
To me it is scandalous that commenters like Gerry and USinKorea have only cheap sarcasm to answer charges of executive incompetence over 9/11, and CIA involvement in the creation of Al Qaeda.
I hope you two are not members of our military forces, because your know-nothingism is an absolute disgrace, and the exact opposite of true patriotism.
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6:22 am on September 12th, 2008 21
King Baeksu. Osama never received training or equipment from the CIA. He received his support directly from freinds in Saudi Arabia. It was policy that only indiginous Afgans were to receive the training and arms against the Russians in Afganistan. It is a popular myth that he did receive our support. Similar to Sadam being on the CIA payroll, or Rumsfeld giving poison chemicals to Sadam. The sarcasm was intended to show the ridiculesness of some of the conspirocy theories that are being circulated. No, I am not in the military any longer, as I retired after 20 years in 1986.
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6:51 am on September 12th, 2008 22
I would be fun to accept what the government tells me.
Regardless, to all of us in Korea: Happy ?? everyone!!! I’ll be battling traffic with my wife, but I hope you all have a safe holiday!!!
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7:04 am on September 12th, 2008 23
Damn, that was “It” and “Chuseok”.
Again, I know that most of you disagree with KB and I, but I would like to say one thing:
We all bicker back and forth about anything and everything, but the bottom line is that we are all Americans, we are all people and in the end, regardless of party, I hope we are all safe and get to live a long and happy life with our families.
I wish the best of luck to everyone here. And GI, thanks for the forum…
Until next week, be safe!
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7:41 am on September 12th, 2008 24
Reminder…20 Sep 2008, Shinjang Mall entrance between 1100-1600, Andy Jackson of Republicans Abroad will be registering voters (bipartisan: Democrat and Republican). Bicker all you want about politics here, but it’s the ballot box that is the real thing. Make your vote count!!!
Happy and safe Chuseok folks.
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11:17 am on September 12th, 2008 25
KB,
I don’t spend a lot of time swatting at flies either.
If you want to believe the current Bush caused 9/11 because he went to his ranch, fine.
If I wanted to waste my time, which I obviously don’t, I could find you “professors” who say Roosevelt caused Pearl Harbor using much the same evidinciary method.
I see no point in getting into some lengthy discussion with someone who uses the ranch as evidence or that the CIA created Bin Laden.
Similarly with Calebrisi…
You belittled ignorant Americans who think the US is winning the war. I pointed out the “war” was won some years ago. You countered by bypassing the original war theme to focus on potential/hypothetical future disintegration of the reconstruction phase. I brought the focus back on the fact the “war” phase was won some time ago.
Lastly, you’re not my buddy – and you’re thinking I look like a fool bothers me not even slightly.
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11:19 am on September 12th, 2008 26
Oh, Calebrisi, I forgot — the original focus was on the topic of people in the world who currently believe the attacks on 9/11 were actually a black ops job by the US or Israeli governments…….not the reconstruction of Iraq….
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2:11 pm on September 12th, 2008 27
Mexico is being infiltrated by illegal Arabs?
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3:14 pm on September 12th, 2008 28
Another episode in ROK Drop’s favorite sketch-variety show “USinKorea Gets Egg All Over His Face”:
“I pointed out the ‘war’was won some years ago. You countered by bypassing the original war theme to focus on potential/hypothetical future disintegration of the reconstruction phase. I brought the focus back on the fact the ‘war’ phase was won some time ago.”
Well shucks Cleatus. If that’s what you want to argue then shouldn’t you go find an aircraft carrier, pilot and land an aircraft on it, and then give head-in-the-sand, hubristic speech in front of a “Mission Accomplished” banner?
Moreover, those “potential/hypothetical” factors I mentioned, they are very real possibilities. Anybody whose serious about the future of Iraq and America’s role there, needs to give serious weight to them. But I guess we shouldn’t really expect that of you seeing as how you’re more interested in attempts at rationalizing the prospects of America’s imperial project in Iraq.
Finally, I know full well what the original topic was. I brought up the issue of Iraq to further underscore “The Korean’s” point that it’s not only Arabs who believe in deluded, nonsensical notions. That American’s are just as susceptible to it as well.
In fact, it’s condescending through and through, if not outright racist to impugn irrationality and paranoia to one group while ignoring that very same thing with ones own.
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3:43 pm on September 12th, 2008 29
Too bad we can’t all be a Calebrisi…
But, yes, Tommy Franks had the idea for the aircraft carrier moment you are speaking of – as a way to say to the troops and more that – the main fighting days of the war were over. That the war mission had been a victory. That the mission of defeating Hussein’s army and government had been accomplished.
Maybe if you were not so focused on the “imperial project” – you might be able to understand what people are saying more.
Since it leads you to think theories that the US government blew up the World Trade Center is on par with people thinking either A) The “war” phase in Iraq did in fact come to an end with the defeat of the Iraqi military and the overthrow of the former government — or B) the surge seems to have accomplished much of its intended mission and progress to toward the reconstruction of Iraq is being made much better than at any time since the “war” phase came to an end.
Yes. Isn’t that special —- being able to equate Americans who think the war was won and the surge has been working are — “irrational and paranoid” (and racists too, oh my!!) like those convinced the CIA killed 3,000 people in the US for — what? Oh…the imperialistic project….
—The “hypotheticals” are real possibilities.
Always knew and admitted that…see….
I’m not the one so bent by dislike of the “imperialists” I can’t reasonably look at what went and has been going on.
I do like egg, though…
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4:07 pm on September 12th, 2008 30
USinKorea: The Gift That Keeps on Giving.
An example or two if I may.
1) “Tommy Franks had the idea for the aircraft carrier moment you are speaking of – as a way to say to the troops and more that – the main fighting days of the war were over. That the war mission had been a victory. That the mission of defeating Hussein’s army and government had been accomplished.”
Well whoever thought of the idea it still was a boneheaded move in light of everything that happend and still can very well happen.
Also, you say “the main fighting days of the war were over.”(!!!) I can’t believe those fingers of yours allowed you to type that horseshit of a statement after over 4000 American soldiers KIA after GWB’s “Mission Accomplished” speech.
Finally, I stand by equating the 9/11 conspiracy theories believed by Arabs to those who think the Iraq was a just, righteous war and try and put a Panglossian sheen over the current situation.
Both groups are unable to overcome their own personal biases and tendentious thinking. Both are attempting to create their own versions of reality out of a cheap deck of cards.
Also, if you like egg so much don’t put it all over your face, put it in you mouth. One, it’ll taste better. Two, if you know your etiquette, you won’t talk while you’re chewing. And then probably we’ll be sparred you mouthing off nonsense.
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4:50 pm on September 12th, 2008 31
During times of universal deceit, the “truth” can be revolutionary. H.G. Wells. I prefer the facts that point to the “truth” and not the conspirocy theories that become the “Opium of the masses” only because they are to lazy to research the facts.
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5:32 pm on September 12th, 2008 32
Yada yada yada….
I’ll close with this for any future readers —- I stand by what I wrote with what Calebrisi offered right beside it — with no problem whatsoever….
Readers will be able to judge who has “personal biases and tendentious thinking. Both attempting to create their own versions of reality out of a cheap deck of cards.”
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4:58 am on September 13th, 2008 33
[...] Who is at Fault for 9/11? [...]
11:09 pm on September 13th, 2008 34
Interestingly enough I was in Alexandria, Egypt on 9/11, and at the time there was a great outpouring of empathy from the Egyptian people, as well as from the majority of the people across the globe. Now, not so much…
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