From what I've been able to gather, they do arrest GIs (and foreigners) at a MUCH higher rate when reporting to the scene than they do when it is just Koreans-vs-Koreans. It isn't just a GI thing either. The Metropolitian this year, I believe it was, called the police on a guy who assaulted him – and he was the one arrested……not an old or unusual story…

I believe that also touches on the later discussion of "minor" crimes. From my experience seeing a small number of times where Korean police responded to street altercations I witnessed – with just Koreans involved – nobody was charged. My impression, from that and other news items and things I've heard, is that Korean police stress the conflicting parties work things out and only if the two sides refuse to let it go at the scene is an arrest is made – unless there is some significant injury or property damage.

I guess one example of this would be the video cam scenes most of us have seen that take place at police stations and police boxes where drunk, infuriated Koreans come and push around policemen on duty when one of their friends is taken into custody – and nobody gets arrested.

But, when a GI/foreign is involved, it is a safe bet an arrest is going to be made and who that will be.

"The willingness to reach an out of court settlement plays a part in avoiding Korean prosecutors pressing for jurisdiction."

From what I've picked up with GI crimes over the years, the compensation agreement for them comes in the sentencing face – not pre-trail. I've never heard of a GI getting charges dropped by reaching an agreement with a Korean. I have heard of them getting their sentence reduced after paying or getting a higher-than-normal sentence because they refused to admit guilt and pay compensation.

"The differing reports can’t reveal how the incident started, but the physical evidence was that the initial altecation left a bloodied old Korean man with a broken nose."

I just saw where GI Korea linked to my review of both infamous subway brawls above – so I won't do it here….

From reading what I could on the Voice of People site in Korean and in reports in English in the press and NGO sites, you could have confidence in what took place that day on the subway.

I did not keep a copy of the extended video where the poor old Korean man told what happened right after the attack, because it was a long interview in Korean, and the quotes from the Korean press, NGO websites, and Stars and Stripes accurately captured it, but it was laugh out loud funny when he described how his hand just happened to brush across the GI's face and then he was attacked viciously. My Korean wife did the laughing out loud and said any Korean listening to that would know the guy was admitting he had struck the GI first. Which is likely why the NGO site yanked the video never to be seen again.

The Korean police also announced later to the press that they had concluded through interviews and the poor old man's various and varying statements that he had struck the GI — but oddly enough – the poor old man wasn't charged – nor were the charges dropped against the 3 GIs — the time limit on pursuing the initial arrest was simply let passed…

I did upload the section of the video showing the good citizen Koreans (mob) chasing after two of the GIs as the riot police tried to get them to the safety of the hospital where a larger group of them were stationed.

http://usinkorea.org/videos/mob_attack_confession…

(Sorry for the poor quality of the video – this was before blogs and such and when bandwidth and server space was not as cheap and plentiful as today and I had to sacrifice quality. Also, the NGOs took the original video down quickly and over time I lost my copy and couldn't edit it when internet site goodies improved)

The poor old Pyongyang apologist and active North Korean agent in the South did give conflicting accounts of what happened — and as I said — once you read through them all and a couple of interviews with young activists on the scene and the GIs' version, it was pretty clear what happened on the train.

The poor old man was with 8 to 12 university activists promoting a huge anti-US rally and spotted a lone GI who wasn't with his two friends at that moment, and they decided to harass the guy and worked themselves up until the typical Korean semi-violence went into a brawl. The poor old man was in the thick of it and it was his "push" on the GI's face that led the activists to step it up and the GI to defend himself.

Even though the police determined the poor old man and his youthful friends were the main instigators, nobody was ever charged with a crime on the Korean side.

As for the holding of the one GI and forcing him to attend an anti-US/USFK rally and forcing him to make statements against himself and USFK — well golly – they didn't beat the hell out of him – they made him fear for his life — but they didn't lay a finger on him – besides holding him against his will and making him perform for an anti-US mob numbering in the thousands…..no crime there…

….why should we expect any Koreans to be charged with that crime?

So, why even look at the pictures taken at the rally showing Korean minders guarding the guy or videos that were shot at the time? Why seek to collect evidence that was uploaded to the NGO sites promoting the guilt of bastard GI that were just as quickly yanked from it when the NGO leadership realized the shit was about to hit the fan?

No crime there. Just look at the GI's face — not a mark on him…..(his nose had stopped bleeding by that point)….

http://rokdrop.com/2008/09/14/usfk-soldier-appeal…

Now for smaller crimes I have seen servicemembers be able to reach a financial settlement such as when this sailor broke a car window:

http://rokdrop.com/2008/07/20/us-sailor-damages-w…

This goes back to why I believe the major crime stat is the best statistic available because for major crimes the GIs are brought to trial and weeds out all the traffic tickets and people reaching settlements to avoid trials.

The same would be true for Koreans that pay compensation money as well. They receive a suspended sentence or a small fine for a major crime instead of going to jail for something like theft or assault. Nevertheless they still have to appear in court to settle major crimes. For smaller crimes such as a broken window they can reach a financial settlement and walk away from the incident just like a GI can. This also shows why the major crime stat is the best stat available.

Also something else to keep in mind is that the Korean stat is actually a deflated number, it should actually be higher. That is because all ROK Army incidents to include even civilians that commit crimes against ROK Army personnel are handled in ROK Army courts which no one has any statistics on.

I still remain convinced that the USFK crime rate is significantly lower then the surrounding Korean population which it should be considering the discipline we expect of soldiers and the amount of restrictions USFK puts on their lives in Korea.

We know that there are gradations of crime, especially those like assault and theft. Many of them would be considered to be minor offenses when the victim wouldn't always press charges. What we might call petty theft or two guys in a fist fight.

Since there was an arrest, we can presume that the victim pressed charges. But, that still doesn't mean 99% conviction because it is very common in Korea and those other 99% countries (Japan and China) to avoid prosecution when the accused reaches a financial settlement with the victim.

I believe many of those 354,131 "serious crime" arrests were not really serious crimes but were done to start the process of reaching a financial settlement. And, the assault and theft cases that do make it to court are those where a settlement is not reached.

That is true for Korean on Korean crime, but I also know of several cases where that was true for some crimes that GIs were arrested for. The willingness to reach an out of court settlement plays a part in avoiding Korean prosecutors pressing for jurisdiction.

By only looking at the major crime category that weeds out all these little incidents when looking at the statistics. A police station would catch all hell if he handed over jurisdiction of a major crime case back to USFK. It is of course possible but I have never personally seen or heard of it happen.

However there was one case where the victims parents demanded that the police hand jurisdiction over to USFK for the rape of their KATUSA son because they felt the US military would properly punish the criminal compared to the notoriously light sentences in Korean courts for rape. USFK would go on to sentence the soldier to 30 years in jail.

Also good point about the arrest statistic. However, arrests compared to convictions for Koreans will essentially be the same number because Korea has a 99% conviction rate for those arrested:

If you were falsely accused of a crime, would you prefer the trial be held in:

A. China

B. South Korea, or

C. Japan

Give up? The correct answer is D. None of the above.

That’s because in all three countries, the conviction rate is 99%. You have virtually no chance of being acquitted, because prosecutors have incredible power over the trial process and judges trustingly assume the prosecutors wouldn’t have brought a case if they weren’t sure the accused was guilty. This recent column by Mike Weisbart of the Korea Times highlights South Korea’s shocking lack of basic safeguards to prevent the innocent from being railroaded. In Japan, courts have been known to convict suspects of murder on the basis of motive and opportunity alone, that is without witnesses or physical evidence. For all the highly visible problems with the West’s system of jury trials, it’s still far better than the quiet but constant persecution of innocent people across Asia, even in the region’s democracies. [Far Eastern Economic Review]

I will up date the stats for Korea on the posting to show what the number would be with a 99% conviction rate.

I think the best way to look at the crime rate is by what the KNPA considers major crime: rape, burglary, assault, theft, & murder. This eliminates all the fudging that goes on with the parking tickets to the stats.

Of major crime in 2007 Korea had 385,704 people arrested. Using my new equation:

385,704 * 99% conviction rate = 381,847 convictions

49,000,000 / 385,704 = 1 in 128 Koreans committing a serious crime.

For USFK crime I use the 27,500 because I cannot find a hard number online of what the USFK number plus dependents is. I have heard that it is around 40,000 but could find nothing solid so I stay with the 27,500 number. Of the 27,500 servicemembers 23 were convicted of major crimes which comes out to a conviction rate of 1 in 1196.

Also in regards to how Koreans feel about GI crime keep in mind that most Koreans have no interaction with GIs and most GI crime happens in the ville where very few Koreans even see GI crime happen. GI crime is not felt by the general Korean population and is instead the perception of GI crime is manufactured by the media and NGOs.

A perfect example is the subway incident above. Those soldiers were attacked first by the protesters before being kidnapped. I highly recommending reading this link:

Seoul District Prosecutor's office announced Sunday it would not seek jurisdiction, nor prosecute a US serviceman, Private Murphy, who hit former assemblyman Seo Kyeing-won during a scuffle initiated by the latter and involving 20 university students and two other servicemen.

A prosecution official said it had been proven that Seo repeatedly punched Murphy in the face first, and that the private was kidnapped and forcibly detained by the students, therefore invalidating any claims made by the South Koreans. [Chosun Ilbo]

In regards to the SOFA questions, yes the Korean police on occasion hand over GIs. The reason I bring up the urinating on a building example from time to time is because one of my soldiers got arrested by the Korean police for urinating on a building. He called me I went to the station and the police gave him to me to bring back to post. For major crimes I have never seen the Korean police hand a GI back to USFK to be tried. That is why I think the major crime statistic is the most reliable one to judge GI crime rates with.

Anyway very good discussion which just continues to make me wonder why journalists and USFK public affairs types who are paid to do their jobs don't crunch these numbers instead of people like us with some free time on the Internet?

I accept your correction. According to a US Embassy Seoul Martial Fact sheet, in 2001, 82% crimes came under Korean jurisdiction. But, I still think there will be a lot of error in comparing conviction rates.

Even though the current SOFA was updated around 2001~2002, in 2000, then Ambassador Bosworth wrote in a newsletter:

The Korean Government has also chosen not to exercise its jurisdiction in minor cases, the bulk of which are minor traffic infractions. Some confusion has arisen because statistics in Korea include these minor infractions in the total of crimes committed. The number of serious crimes, as defined by the Korean Government, committed by USFK personnel has remained constant over the past decade — between zero and ten cases per year.

This is probably still true today. So even though what the Korean government reports as crime rates include serious and minor offense, because they don't usually exercise their right to jurisdiction for minor offenses, these offenses don't show up in conviction rates.

I believe a larger percentage of "crimes", even for Koreans, are minor offenses. Since more of the Korean minor offenses will go to the Korea justice system than for GI minor offenses, the conviction rates for Koreans will skew higher than for GIs.