By Introduction
Recently there were cooperative cross postings on Roboseyo’s blog as well as Ask A Korean on Why Expats Complain About Korea? The cross postings drew a lot of debate around the Korean blogosphere on why expats complain so much about living in the Land of the Morning Calm. Well in the same spirit The Korean and I thought it would make for interesting reading if I posted on why GI’s Complain About Korea while he posted on Why Koreans Complain About GI’s. Hopefully everyone will find these two postings to be interesting and at least thought provoking reading on why each side complains about the other.
Below is a list of reasons why GI’s complain about Korea in no particular order. I’m sure I probably missed a few so readers feel free to add to the reasons Why GI’s Complain About Korea in the comments section below.
Unaccompanied Tours – There are probably fewer things that upset people stationed in Korea then having to go to Korea without their families. This complaint is getting worse because of the number of people serving a year or more in a conflict zone and then coming back to the US to just receive orders to go to Korea for another year away from their families. I had an E-6 who deployed to Afghanistan with the 101st Airborne and then came back to the US for a few months to just be deployed again with the 101st for operation in Iraq when Operation Iraqi Freedom began. He spent a year in Iraq and then came back to the US to come down on orders to Korea. Needless to say he wanted out of the Army because his wife with three kids was about to divorce him. He ended up eating his way out of the Army and I can’t say I blame him.
There are plenty of more people in Korea in the same situation. In response more and more soldiers are bringing their families to Korea in a non-command sponsored status which means they have to pay to fly their families to Korea and house them here on their own. Think about it if the average servicemember has a wife and two kids that means he would have to buy three airplanes tickets to Korea and then three more to fly them back. That is probably at least about $6,000 in airplane tickets the servicemember is paying for. Then think the servicemember would then have to pay for some furniture and other items for whatever apartment he is living in since he couldn’t ship any of his household goods to Korea. That is even more money out of his pocket. Then he would have to pay to send his kids to a private foreign high school since they are not authorized to use any of the USFK schools. These non-command sponsored servicemembers are taking a huge financial hit by bringing their families to Korea. To make matters worse many of these soldiers live in cheap apartments in the ville which exposes their families to all the unpleasantness of the ville culture.
There are plenty of other issues non-command sponsored family members face with medical and dental for example and all these issues pile up to cause a major reason why servicemembers complain about being stationed in Korea.
Living Conditions – This is actually something that is improving every year but just a couple of years ago there were still USFK soldiers living in quonset huts. I don’t know of any soldiers living in quonset huts now (if anyone knows any then feel free to comment) which is a big accomplishment but nevertheless there are still units that have soldiers living in conditions that are less then what they would expect if stationed in a stateside unit.
Likewise as mentioned before families that are non-command sponsored find themselves in cheap off post apartments in the ville that are sub-standard to what they would expect to live in back in the states. Even families that are command sponsored find themselves in Yongsan for example living in the Hanam Apartments which I have often heard referred to as “The Ghetto”. This is a decreasing reason why soldiers complain about being stationed in Korea, but nevertheless still a reason.
Shady Landlords – Finding an apartment in Korea for those both command and non-command sponsored often means dealing with shady land landlords and corrupt rental agencies. Landlords in Korea are infamous for ripping off GI’s of their deposit money because they delay giving the money back to the servicemembers because they know the servicemember has a Permanent Change of Station date of when they must fly out of Korea and thus prevents them from taking any legal action against the landlord.
These shady landlords are also known to run secret power lines from the servicemember’s apartment to their apartment in order to make the servicemember pay for that person’s electric bill among a host of other shady practices. GI’s living off post being ripped off by these people is just another reason why GI’s complain about Korea.
Taxi Drivers – There are few things more annoying then dealing with the off post taxi cab drivers that are out to rip GI’s off. Commonly the cab drivers do not run the meter and then charge soldiers three to four times the amount the meter would read. The prices even go up higher the closer to curfew the soldiers trying to find a cab find themselves.
These cab drivers even try other shady tactics in order to fleece money out of soldiers. I was in a cab late at night heading back to my camp after pulling Courtesy Patrol at Stanleyville when the cab driver stopped in the middle of nowhere and then demanded I pay more money or get out of the cab. I told him no way and wrote down his contact information from the taxi’s panel. He was a bit surprised and was trying to push me out of the cab but I still got his details. I called my wife and she picked me up and the next day she called the taxi company and complained and the cab driver was forced to give me an apology over the phone later on.
There are plenty of other ways cab drivers try to rip off GI’s but I should also state that this complaint does not represent all cab drivers in Korea. This complaint refers to cab drivers around the GI villes especially Uijongbu and Dongducheon. I have taken taxis plenty of times in Seoul and other areas and never had these issues. However the constant harassment and shadiness from the cab drivers in the soldier ville areas is definitely something that causes soldiers to complain about Korea.
The Ville – The Ville is mixed bag because there are plenty of soldiers that love the Ville because of its sleaziness while just as many others can’t stand it for the same reasons. I fail to see the fun in paying $20 for a drink for a scantily clad juicy girl to talk to you for 10 minutes if that. However, plenty of younger guys enjoy wasting their money on this but there are plenty of other who do not and wish there were better entertainment options in the villes.
Also for us servicemembers who have served in Korea for a long time we know the shady things the people in the ville pull off. For example I would never by a non-bottled drink in the ville because of the fact that many of the club owners recycle ice and left over drinks to give to other customers. Even with bottled beer the club owners buy through the blackmarket beer that has reached its expiration date to sell to GI’s in the ville.
I could go on and on about the shady things that goes on in the ville but I think everyone gets the point. The shady villes with their shady taxi drivers is the one place in Korea where the majority of soldiers spend the most of their time so it is no wonder why soldiers would have negative perception of Korea if the ville is what they mostly see. Even for many of the guys that initially like the ville life, by the end of their tours even they usually tire of it. I know the ville is not real Korea but to many soldiers it is and is another reason why GI’s complain about Korea.
The Curfew – There are probably fewer topics discussed more then the USFK curfew policy. Everyone has an opinion on this to include the new USFK commander who issued his own change to the curfew policy. You can see what I think the curfew policy should be by reading here.
The prior curfew policy was initially established after 9/11 supposedly for force protection reasons. Everyone knew this wasn’t the case and the real reason was to keep soldiers away from Koreans to reduce incidents. As much as I like the former USFK commander General Bell, he even went further then the force protection reasons to say that the curfew was to make sure that soldiers got enough sleep at night so they are ready to fight the North Koreans the next day. This is all rubbish and insult to the intelligence of most servicemembers.
Since General Sharpe took command of USFK and changed the curfew policy he admitted the curfew was a punishment on all the soldiers for the actions of a few which confirmed the curfew wasn’t in place for any force protection reasons or to make sure soldiers got a good nights rest in preparation to fight the North Korean invasion the next day. Currently the curfew on weekends is from 3AM to 5AM with the 12PM curfew in place on work days. With only a two hour curfew you might as well as just do away with the curfew all together.
When incidents start happening again because they will; it’s a statistical certainty, the curfew will probably be changed again and only feed a whole new round of complaining about being stationed in Korea.
Cannot Drive – Being able to legally drive a civilian vehicle is something the vast majority of USFK servicemembers are not allowed to do. With most people in the rank and file this is not a big complaint since they all mostly live on post without their families. However for married soldiers that live off post this is an issue. I know plenty of soldiers who moved their non-command sponsored families to Korea on their own dime and live a good distance from where they work and have to walk or ride a bicycle every morning. This is made worse when you have to walk the long distance in the rain to get to work. I also know of command sponsored families who are lower ranking and cannot drive who face the same problem. Keep in mind it is not just the soldiers that have to walk but their families as well if their spouse needs to go to the PX or commissary.
The new USFK commander General Sharpe recently made a change to the driving policy like he did with the curfew policy in order to address these issues. Now soldiers can put in an application to get a driver’s license and own a car that needs to be signed by the first O-5 in their chain of command. This is a good change for the people who have to walk a good distance from where they live to get on post. The new policy also allows anyone to get a license or own a car or rent a car if approved by their first O-5. However, how many O-5’s are going to allow Private Tentpeg or Sergeant Windbag to own their own personal car? Probably none.
There will probably be a few commanders who allow soldiers to rent a car over a four day weekend for example but after a few soldiers get hit with DUI’s which will eventually happen because they are already happening now, how many of these O-5’s do you think will ever sign off on a private or lower ranking sergeant ever renting a car again? Not many, which will give GI’s just another reason to complain about being stationed in Korea.
Crazy Drivers – I think this goes without saying because anyone that has driven a vehicle in Korea or just observed driving practices from sitting on a bus for example should know full well how crazy Korean drivers can be. This is for a variety of reasons and mainly because of the incompetence of the police force which is unwilling to ticket people for breaking driving laws.
However, having to drive large military vehicles through this traffic is extremely stressful especially when you know if an accident happens it will be blamed on you no matter who is at fault, which just adds another reason why GI’s complain about Korea.
Koreans are Rude – This is something that has already been talked to death here on the ROK Drop but it is still something you can hear servicemembers complain about all the time. It only takes a new servicemember one trip to the shopping center and being elbowed by dozens of ajummas to get people complaining about how rude Koreans are.
If an Incident Happens It is Always the GI’s Fault – This is just pretty much a fact of life in Korea that if an incident happens between a Korean and a GI the assumption from the start is that the servicemember is at fault. A GI in Korea is truly guilty until he can prove themselves innocent. GI’s can be assaulted, kidnapped, and forced to make coerced statements on national television by Koreans and who gets charged with a crime? The GI’s of course.
Another soldier was convicted of attempted rape and the judge told him to appeal because the decision to convict him was so dubious. Incredibly on appeal the soldier’s sentence was thrown out after he had already served months in jail for a crime he didn’t commit.
One of my personal favorite incidents was when my battalion commander was driving to Camp Red Cloud and his driver cut in front of a tow truck to get in the proper turning lane. The tow truck driver was pissed that he got cut off and later on down the road he passed my battalion commander’s vehicle and then got in front of him. At the next stop light the tow truck driver put the vehicle in reverse and slammed the front of my battalion commander’s vehicle with the tow truck causing extensive damage. The tow truck driver then called the police to say he was rear ended. Despite the protests from my battalion commander, his driver was found liable for causing the accident. You can only imagine what my battalion commander thought of Koreans after that incident.
He is not alone and these incidents pile up to give GI’s even more reasons to complain about Korea
Lack of English in Korea – Not all things GI’s complain about are fair criticisms and this is one of them. Many servicemembers have been stationed in Europe before where English is widely spoken where in Korea it isn’t and makes every day interaction with Koreans very difficult. However, I don’t expect Koreans to speak English and I speak enough Korean to get by just fine. However, soldiers given orders to Korea for a year that are bitter to be here in the first place are not going to take the time to learn Korean.
This lack of being able to communicate thus keeps them in the ville area, which only further skews their views of Korea and Koreans in general.
Korea is Boring – This is something I hear all the time and it mainly comes from people who do nothing but go to the ville on weekends. This all goes back to my prior point about not being to communicate thus causing servicemembers to stay in the ville and do nothing else.
When servicemembers tell me this I quickly respond with a list of things for them do usually starting with the USO or MWR programs which have lots of tours going on. The first time I came to Korea eight years ago and knew nothing about the place I would go on just about every USO tour they had. Through those tours I learned enough about Korea to go out and do things on my own, which there is plenty to go see and do. However, this is not the case for many soldiers thus giving them something else to complain about.
Korea Smells – Here is something else I hear a lot guys complain about is how bad Korea smells and lot of this has to do with USFK facilities being located near rural areas with rice paddies that smell of manure. This is a dumb complaint but yet something you hear over and over again.
I have also heard many servicemembers complain about how Koreans smell like kimchi. Once again this one is dumb. However, I once overheard a soldier complain to a KATUSA before about how all the KATUSA stink when they come back from lunch of kimchi and it is hard to work because of the smell. The KATUSA calmly replied that it is hard for the KATUSA’s to work coming back from lunch because all the soldiers’ breath smells like hamburgers and how hard it was for them work because of the smell. It is all a matter of perspective, but still something people complain about.
Korea is Dirty – This is another one that I hear a lot and I think it is once again linked to the scummy villes that soldiers spend most of their time in. However some things such as people littering on the sidewalks as well leaving huge amounts of garbage in the country side after having a picnic is something that does not help this stereotype go away.
Policies that Treat GI’s Like Children – Servicemembers hate being treated like children, especially servicemembers of older ages. In USFK polices tend to be created to address issues with the 18-22 year old age group that causes the majority of issues yet the policies that are created for this age group are expanded to include everyone in the ranks. Believe me this causes a whole lot of complaining.
The Anti-US Protesters – These people are the subject of much scorn when the various anti-US issues flare up especially when these people are out protesting in front of the camps or assaulting servicemembers during training exercises. These idiots, though a small portion of the population, often cause servicemembers to complain how ungrateful Koreans are for everything the United States has done for them.
Conclusion – As you can see the reasons for why GI’s complain about Korea are various with some of the complaints being legitimate, others being more directed towards USFK policies rather then Koreans, some complaints are unwarranted, while others are just plain dumb.
A lot of these complaints I think will quickly go away if tours in Korea are normalized and servicemembers are allowed to bring their families to the peninsula combined with doing away with the over regulation of servicemembers’ lives in USFK. That is why I am a strong advocate of the USFK transformation plan which the Korean government and the anti-US groups are doing everything possible to delay and stop from happening. These actions only further give reason for servicemembers to complain about Korea.
However even if this transformation ever happens it won’t stop all the complaints. I’m sure there will be plenty of servicemembers who still complain because soldiers just like anyone else love to complain, but let’s hope it is only about stupid stuff and not over some of the legitimate complaints listed above.
6:07 am on September 24th, 2008 1
Good post! On the lack of English, people don’t have the right to complain about Koreans not speaking English OFF-BASE, but ON-BASE it is really frustrating that so many Koreans are hired with inadequate English skills. I’ve also found that no one on this base ever answers the phone and many people complain that the Korean workers are often rude and hang up when they do answer the phone.
I think when Americans meet Koreans in contexts other than landlords, taxi drivers, regular drivers, protesters, clubs, merchants and surly Yongsan base workers, they have a much better impression of Koreans and Korea. Unfortunately, all the other interactions come first and often shape the US soldiers/families view so they don’t make it to meet Koreans in a more social and friendly setting.
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6:16 am on September 24th, 2008 2
Interesting reflections GI, and a couple of thoughts. Korea does smell, and it’s not just the paddies and associated fertilizing agents. Has something to do with the type of sewer system they use here, maybe. You know, the type that lets mosquitoes fly into your hooch from the sink drain. And some of the smells GIs have detected are unique to the Peninsula, as compared to other countries in the world. As for the kimchi smell, I think it’s the garlic actually, and depending on how much is consumed, and whether it is oozing from the pores of the consumer, it is more powerful than your average hamburger, unless you load the burger up with lots of onions or some other aromatic condiments.
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6:50 am on September 24th, 2008 3
[...] other. Below is a list of reasons why GI’s complain about Korea in no particular order. …(Read the rest at ROK Drop) Posted by the Korean at 9:01 [...]
7:10 am on September 24th, 2008 4
[...] The lovely one bedroom Tuscan property shares a large well furnished garden and swimming pool … Why Do GI’s Complain About Korea? – ROK Drop http://rokdrop.com/2008/09/24/why-do-gis-complain-about-korea/ Korea Smells – Here is [...]
7:54 am on September 24th, 2008 5
Mamaseoul, excellent comment though I think the base workers for the most part don’t bother me much other then the fact they conspire with all the blackmarketing going on.
pops as far as Korean smells I think I have become immune to it because I can walk around Seoul and I don’t think it smells unless I’m standing next to a sewer drain or something. However, in the country side at certain times of the year it does stink, but so do feed lots in America. If a Korean lived in a town with a feedlot, they could say America smells. So the complaints about how Korea smells I think is simply a matter of perspective.
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8:03 am on September 24th, 2008 6
You forgot about doubledealers like Marmot who take a piss on real GI’s while acting all buddy buddy to their face.
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8:43 am on September 24th, 2008 7
You’ve posted some erroneous information regarding non-command sponsored dependents:
1. If you’re family is in Korea command sponsored they still get: OHA for Korea (and COLA and a utilities allowance), standard medical treatment just like CS families, and full access to the PX / commissary.
2. Non-command sponsored kids can and almost always are able to attend DoD schools for free. However, it is not guaranteed – it’s on a space available basis.
3. Regarding living in cheap apartments in the ville ~ you get full OHA and most non-command sponsored families live in very nice places. And you can usually get a furnished apartment without much trouble.
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8:45 am on September 24th, 2008 8
Edit to #1 – should read: “If your family is in Korea non-command sponsored”
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10:24 am on September 24th, 2008 9
[...] Returning to the “Why (insert group here) complain about Korea,” GI Korea looks at why GIs bitch about Korea. [...]
12:36 pm on September 24th, 2008 10
There are three sources for the problems.
1. Command does a poor job of helping young enlisted learn about any culture except the ville. OTOH, their job is not to build brigades of junior ambassadors, they’re trying to defend American interests at the pleasure of the President…
2. Anti-US forces are omnipresent, including on-base. Then again, they are also on most US universities… But that’s really more of a long series of articles on hughhewitt.com or something…
3. GIs are (or should be) responsible for their own actions and have no reasonable excuse for not using the resources available on-base (including senior NCOs and KATUSAs) to learn how to get along in Korea. If someone only spends time with hookers and bar girls in any country (even France, Canada, or Switzerland) they are likely to be dumped on, cheated several ways, and develop a poor attitude about that country.
As a non-GI, non-English teacher who has worked in Korea on several occasions, I found that most Koreans are actual warm people. There are the folks who are racist, sexist, xenophobic, small-minded bullies… That type of people exist everywhere…
May all of you develop a realistic attitude about your surroundings.
And may you all get an opportunity to go to Namdemun, Myungdong, Noryangin, Taehangno, Insadong, Apkujong, and Tongdemun with Korean friends and enjoy the good things about Seoul…
Just be careful if you take the tour of the old castle walls around Suwon! Low arches! You can hurt yourself if you stand up in the wrong spot!!
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2:32 pm on September 24th, 2008 11
It is still interesting that out of all the countries on Earth which has U.S. military presence, Korea sticks out as the place where U.S.soldiers complain the most about the locals and their behavior. Maybe because Korea is unique in terms of our army being there longer than we have any other country,(correct me if wrong) and our welcome has more than matured. Perhaps we must withdraw now and trust the world’s 13th largest economy’s army to be able to defend itself against the world’s 155th rankings. It seems like a no brainer on paper to anyone just looking in unbiasedly.
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3:48 pm on September 24th, 2008 12
I’ve been with the Army in Germany, Panama, and Korea and heard almost identical complaints about all three. I think GI hit all the major points. I also think that the most important thing is the attitudes of the GIs–it’s not like their home in the US, so they complain. There was no end to the complaints I heard from GIs stationed with me in Stuttgart, and most of the complainers were guys that wouldn’t step one foot off post. Often, I found that the GIs would try to act like they were at home, which often got them in trouble (the trouble the GIs get into in Korea is nothing like what used to go on in Panama). Living overseas requires a change in thinking and being open minded to different ways to do things–not everyone living overseas should be overseas.
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4:40 pm on September 24th, 2008 13
Haksaeng hits the nail.
They complain because they feel their own shit doesn’t stink. If you’ve been around few Caucasions with heavy sweaty body odor, you know what I mean.
We smell like garlic to you? Well you smell like 15 year old sheep meat naturally oozing under your arm pits.
This is the kind of sheer arrogance that we’ve been dealing with for decades on end.
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7:23 pm on September 24th, 2008 14
I agree with a lot of the above posts. A high percentage of military overseas do not see the real country they are in, only villes. Often times as in Korea there will be multiple US bases so they go to visit another ville. That is what they judge the country by. I have never had problems with Koreans, but I have had problems with Americans who had no connection to the military and people from other countries.
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9:26 pm on September 24th, 2008 15
a listener: Perhaps we must withdraw now and trust the world’s 13th largest economy’s army to be able to defend itself against the world’s 155th rankings. It seems like a no brainer on paper to anyone just looking in unbiasedly.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The US presence in Korea is much more about just defending SK from NK. Geo-politically, it is also very important in terms of Japan, China, and Russia.
If the North collapses tomorrow, USFK will stay right where it is because we will then have a military force in a country that borders China and Russia and as much as that will bug the shi+ out of them – they’re won’t be a damn thing they can do about it.
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4:27 am on September 25th, 2008 16
Ummmmm… what about all the English teachers that bitterly hate Korea. Same ones go to other places like Japan and love it. What about all the business people who refuse to ever step food in Korea but would give their nut to move to Japan. Show me all the blogs that hate Japan (execpt Debito), I can show you many about Korea.
Panama, Germany, GOOD LUCK finding any blogs that discuss what a dump Korea is an talks about the rotten people in those nations like you see all over Korea. Sorry Charly. Put the bong down.
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6:28 am on September 25th, 2008 17
Great post. As an American who has lived in Korea for almost a decade I can tell you that I really appreciate having the troops here for obvious reasons. My sense of it is most Koreans are pragmatic about the U.S. presence, they know it’s necessary and even if they’re not warmly welcoming the troops, they’re not hostile either. My impression is that after decades of having the U.S. here most Koreans take it for granted and are basically indifferent to the troops since most of them have little or no contact with them.
So where GI Korea is referencing complaints by troops about Koreans, he’s referring to two categories of a minority of Koreans: those who have financial interactions with the troops (taxi drivers, landlords, etc.) and those from leftist, nationalist political groups. These groups have their agendas and definitely skew the troops’ perceptions of Koreans in general. The last two Korean gov’ts with their ambivalence and open hostility toward the U.S. has not helped.
However, Koreans are a lot more diverse in outlook and interact in friendlier ways than the ones the troops are usually exposed to. I’ve seen on AFN that tours are offered for servicemembers to get off the bases and see parts of Korea outside the villes. Take them up on it and see how people really live when they aren’t dependent on the bases to make a living–there’s a big difference. Once in a while I see individual servicemembers looking around town outside of Itaewon, and that’s great, and there should be more.
The Korean gov’t does nothing to explain to people the need for the U.S. presence or try to encourage exchanges, so when there is animosity like in 2002, they share a lot of the blame for it.
I agree with GI Korea on normalizing tours with families and the USFK transformation plan, although in the end I think we can downsize our presence here and still meet our objectives, and it might benefit Koreans too if they can become more secure about their self-defense.
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7:26 am on September 25th, 2008 18
Some folks get defensive quicker than blazes. You can put your pistol back in your holster #13! That ready, fire, aim stuff is the sign of spring-loaded immaturity. Waeguk, Miguk or Hanguk, wherever you come from, garlic is an equal opportunity food. If you eat a lot of it and it will ooze from your pores with the related aroma, Biology 101, not arrogance.
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7:44 am on September 25th, 2008 19
#13 what a disgusting racist comment. #18 gave you a politer response than you deserve since you are obviously here to scream insults and nothing more.
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2:03 pm on September 25th, 2008 20
Great post!
The smell comes from the food. Specifically, the garlic. How I managed to figure this out was the fact that just about everytime I went off base and had Bulgogi, the next day when I woke up, that smell was in my room. After a few months your nose gets used to it and you don’t notice it as much.
The fact that there are so few command sponsored spots open for folks is a major problem especially for the younger troops and folks that haven’t been married too long. The Ville atomsphere lends itself to the breakup of some marriages as the juicy girls are looking for one thing, a GI to either marry or take as much money from the GI’s as possible. Males that haven’t seen this type of behavior before, don’t understand what is really going on and end up “falling in love” with the Juicy girl.
Some of the bases don’t do enough to encourage the troops to get out and see what Korea has to offer, so the troops only get to see the Ville and nothing else. There’s an excellent tour I went on which took us to many places including Korea Village. Here you could meet regular Korean folk and get a chance to snap some pictures with them. I have never in my life seen kids that flocked to US service members before. At Korean Village I saw quite a bit of it.
Its bad enough being stationed in a very small country who’s customs are totally different than yours and you can’t even understand the folks you meet when you are off base. Language is a very big issue as some career fields don’t lend themselves to get the time to actually learn enough Korean for you to get around. I was quite fortunate to pick up a book on Korean customs so I had a tiny bit of information of why Koreans did stuff the way they do. It helped keep me from upsetting the locals by knowing what not to do in a social setting. Units need to teach their folks some of the local customs including using 2 hands.
I found many Koreans who were very nice and helpfull people. One thing I think troops are not taught enough of is that fact that when your in a foreign country, the locals already have an opinion of us Americans. Some of those opinions are good and some are bad, do your best to leave some good ones. Some Americans give bad impressions because they walk around like they are the big bad Americans and the locals don’t mean a thing. If one treats folks with respect, one tends to get that back.
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2:41 pm on September 25th, 2008 21
It’s the best military assignment in the world.
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6:37 pm on September 25th, 2008 22
I think everyone appears to be pretty much in agreement that the ville culture is what is mainly to blame for the negative perceptions many servicemembers have of Korea. That is why I have always advocated for changing the ville culture. USFK has an excellent opportunity to change the ville culture with the move to Camp Humphreys.
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2:03 am on September 26th, 2008 23
I agree with Pops (#2) about the occasional bad smells in Korea. It’s NOT just near the paddies. I think part of the problem is the trash sitting out on the street. The food trash is very potent, possibly because of the garlic and spices. Also, the sewers smell horrible. As a person who is sensitive to smell and who does not like garlic, I tend to breath through my mouth only when I’m in the city.
I have enjoyed my time in Korea, but I must say that I find it boring here too. If you don’t care for shopping, drinking alcohol, or hiking on extremely congested, poorly maintained trails, then Korea can become boring quite quickly. I do keep a positive attitude by making Korean friends and learning more about the culture.
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7:43 am on September 28th, 2008 24
Back when I was in the Army I’ve changed a few minds of fellow GI’s by taking “weather passes” weather I got cought or not breaking 2 ID curfew policy back in 2000/2001 by jumping on any bus or train to anywhere but TDC or Uijeongbu (I was at Camp Stanton in the Western Corridor). Back in 96 when I was at Humphreys on Friday I would pull money from the ATM, pack a Rucksack with clothes and jump on my bike never to return before 9pm on Sunday nights for destination who cares.
It’s still the same for me now as a contractor, Saturday morning I love nothing more than to get up and out on my harley and tear ass up and down the country; east coast, south coast or up on the boarder… As long as I get away from the city/ville that is Pyongtaek/Anjeong-ri.
It’s their own faults for not enjoying what this country has to offer. I would like to see more done in the way of bringing families over for the Joes though.
The rest is well… I admit I hate the drivers, for being on two wheels carries a little risk especially with crazy drivers but I ride offensively as well to put as much distance from them as well. I’ve had no accident on my bike in 6 years of riding here and 2 while in the states… hard to quantify that one.
Rudeness, I enjoy body checking back… Call me an asshole but it’s a game to me.
Being cheated, I know enough korean to call a bullshit flag, plus I’m a little wary to get cheated by king ajjushi anyway.
I have lots of korean friends most are bikers anyway so we have a common ground to work with.
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10:52 pm on September 28th, 2008 25
“wrenchbender”
Good advice..get the Hell out of Dodge.
As my Greatgrandmother used to say…”you want to meet the real people, go to where they are.”
The only times I have ever had any B/S with Koreans was always around Villes & Cities…give me the country side and mountains anytime.
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2:37 am on October 4th, 2008 26
Kimchi does stink. It is NOT a matter of perspective. The smell permeates our apartment complex and assaults my senses when I sit on my balcony in my super-expensive GI price apartment we live in to try to enjoy the weather. You can’t compare it to the smell of cheeseburgers b/c Koreans eat beef, and the smell of cooking beef/burgers is NOT the same as the sour all-powerful stench of kimchi that is in the air.
The only American foods that come even close to kimchi in smell are chitlins and boiled cabbage. But the entire country of America does not usually smell like these stinky foods and you can’t walk down a street in Korea without having your nostrils assaulted.
Same thing on the train. I don’t know if people bathe less frequently or if it is because there is always some nasty person taking their shoes off to pick the toe jam from their toes but the train smells worse than any public transportation in the States.
And it isn’t dumb to complain about the smell of the rice paddies. They stink-just like Ft. Stewart, GA reeks of swamp and a paper products factory(which all the soldiers stationed there complain about.
The ville culture is hideous, but that can’t really be blamed on Koreans. And it is really immature to expect to come to a foreign country and have everyone speak English to you. I wouldn’t WANT to drive here, since everyone ignores the traffic rules and basic courtesy.
The landlords we’ve had ARE shady. The first one stole money from us, and the “guards” there tried to make me give them money by grabbing my purse. Now we rent from Julies (as suggested by the housing office) and we can’t get them to do any basic repairs, we just found out they are charging us like 400 bucks extra per month for the couple pieces of furniture they included AND they called the power company to tell them they installed an A/C and our powerbill tripled–we did an experiment and stopped running it and it STILL stayed super high.
Over all, we have a very bad impression of Korean culture. Yes, you can find all of these things in every country, but here it is the accepted national culture.
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July 14th, 2009 at 3:45 am
Compared to 25-30 years ago- the place smells MUCH less horrible, at least in the country. Back in them there days, they used real genuine people poop on the rice fields!!!!
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July 14th, 2009 at 5:56 am
Some farmers still use people poop. My gunner and I were sitting on top of our bradley one time and saw an ajumma walk out into a field pull her shorts down, squat, and take a crap. We couldn’t stop laughing after seeing that.
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12:12 pm on October 4th, 2008 27
I actually like Kimchi, but yes, it does reek.
Just had a haircut by a Korean Lady barber & was gagging from the smell of her breath.
Still, Korea is an experience that I have enjoyed, but the Koreans need to seriously get their head out of their rectums and stop targeting/taking advantage of foreigners, because what goes around definitely comes around.
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11:29 pm on October 4th, 2008 28
Another thing that smells is they put the toilet paper in the trash can versus flushing it down the toilet.
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3:17 am on October 5th, 2008 29
Villian-yeah, when the public restrooms even have toilet paper. Which is rarely. Also, those horrible squat basins in the floor. Well, the plumbing in general is horrible.
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11:07 am on December 17th, 2008 30
I don’t know any specific situations GIs are experiencing….I am just a tourist here in South Korea and have known a lot of Koreans….I am just amused by how you put things in words…most especially when you talked about kimchee and Hamburger…it was really funny….some are really rude and selfish..but some really nice….
Nice post…I enjoyed reading…
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12:38 pm on December 17th, 2008 31
April, it is a matter of perception on the smell of Kim Chi. To someone like me raised on a farm with 300 head of hogs and 100 head of cattle it doesn’t bother me. Of couse as an aircraft mechanic my wife says I reek of jet fuel, tubine oil, aluminum (metallic smell), gasoline (riding my chopper) and sweat but I hardly notice. There’s also something strangely intoxicating of the smell my wife permeates of garlic, the wife is Laotian not Korean, that drives me wild. Call me kookie.
I guess some people aren’t sensitive to the smell of this place. Well, I take that back, riding around this country on two wheels I get to sample lots of local bathrooms and some will knock my socks off. Phew, but it’s common throut the non western world.
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12:39 pm on December 17th, 2008 32
sweaty when I come home from work that is.
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6:45 pm on April 18th, 2009 33
Didn’t know U.S. military personnel have it so hard in Korea. Good read. btw, since this came up, I wonder where most GI like to be station or where do the majority, or the usual place, they like to be stationed?
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8:11 pm on April 18th, 2009 34
Most troopers will be stationed in/around Seoul or north of it. Which is really sad considering how messy / screwed up the northern area is. Seoul is the only exception, its an awesome place, but lots and lots of brass running around do there is a constant tension in the air to not screw up.
If the soldiers are lucky they’ll get stationed in Daegu or Waegwon (sp). Those cities are located in the southern part of the ROK and are pretty good spots. I can say for certain that Daegu doesn’t really have any “ville” outside the base. Only a small strip with a few bars that have mostly Koreans working in them. Also the southern areas are really good for family’s. Out here, even if your non-command sponsored (I know dozens who are) you get driving privileges, OHA, schools, pretty much the full support package of any military family. The atmosphere is more relaxed, but the Daegu people are VERY conservative, so you really gotta try to break through the language / culture barrier.
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12:32 am on April 19th, 2009 35
I agree. I have lived in the Taegu-Waegwan area for a long time. I travel to Osan a lot and enjoy the on base facilities, but I get the impression people stationed in the northern part of Korea only see villes. Here there are a lot of interesting things to see and do and you get to see the real Korea. Not bars and stores that sell GI junk.
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8:29 pm on April 19th, 2009 36
[...] 20, 2009 This is a very good, methodical examination of why GIs have problems in Korea; Huer should take notes. [...]
9:06 pm on July 13th, 2009 37
I was one of those people that was taken away from his family for a year and a half hardship tour. I was stationed at Camp Carroll from March 1999 to July 2000. I was there for 2 weeks when I found out that my wife was having an affair. Once I found that out I had no worries in the world. At first I hated being there. Then I started enjoying my surroundings. Yes we enjoyed partying out in the ville. We went out as a group and came back as a group. On our extended weekends off we would just jump on a train and go experience different places each time. Some of the small villages we would go to we were not treated well until we showed the locals the proper respect that the were deserved. Once we showed them the respect then they would open up and welcome us in. There were many times that we would go to our KATUSA’s homes to meet there families. There families treated us very well. When I was there our KATUSA’s only made around $35 a month so we would pay for the to go with us wherever we went. They in turn would take us to different parts of the country that we would have never seen before. It has been a long time since I have been there, but it is still fresh in my mind. I would not change any of my experiences there for anything in the world. For anybody reading this that has orders going to Korea and is trying to fight it. #1: You signed the dotted line and Uncle Sam can send you anywhere he wants to without you being able to do anything about it. #2: If you make the best of it you will have a good time there, trust me I loved it. And finally #3: You get to leave in a year. It does not last forever. If you go there open minded you will have the time of your life. Thanks for reading… formerly SGT. Van-y 307th Signal Battalion Camp Carroll Waegwon South Korea. ” ALPHPA PRIDE”
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10:38 pm on July 13th, 2009 38
Kelly Van-Y,
You are a wise man.
It’s nice to see an intelligent comment from someone that didn’t just hang out in one of the world’s biggest cities or near a military ghetto and wonder why the people seemed so rude.
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July 14th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
I think that 99% of the problem is that most of the soldiers stationed in Korea can not get there faces away from a Soju bottle. I had many nights with the Soju bottle. I still got out and enjoyed the country. There is a lot of sites to see and history to learn about.
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3:51 pm on August 14th, 2009 39
this doesn’t work
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3:56 pm on August 14th, 2009 40
gi jane get out the country
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3:59 pm on August 14th, 2009 41
the war was over 50 years ago!why don’t you help your colleagues with killing innocent people in iraq or afghanistan!
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August 14th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Maybe ’cause she’s like me and liked the challenge of hunting down ‘innocent’ people like you and putting your head in a bag and hearing you cry like a little girl because you were afraid we were going to do some the same things you did to the really innocent people.
Coward.
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10:54 pm on September 20th, 2009 42
I BEEN HERE SINCE JUNE 2009 AND I DERO ON JUNE 2011 . IM TRYING MY HARDEST TO LIKE IT ,BUT ITS SOO HARD… KOREANS ARE RUDE AND THEY LOOK AT YOU ,LIKE YOU OWE THEN SOME $ OR SOMETHING. ONE DAY I WAS WALKING WITH A COUPLE OF FRIENDS AND SOME OLD KOREAN GUY OUT OF THE BLUE KICKED ME, JUST LIKE THAT WITH NO REASON . I WANTED TO KILL THE GUY BUT I THOUGHT ABOUT MY BABY IN THE STROLLER AND THAT STOPPED ME. I DIDNT DO ANTHING OR SAY ANYTHING. SOMETIMES THEY JUST WANT TO TEMPT YOU TO HURT THEM OR DO SOME HAR TO THEM SO THEY CAN GET $ OFF YOU ,CUZ IF ANYTHING HAPPENS ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!!! I DONT LIKE IT!!! I WISH I WAS IN EUROPE OR ANYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE!
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11:00 pm on September 20th, 2009 43
YEAH PEOPLE SAY ,NOT ALL KOREA IS LIKE THAT BUT TO ME IT IS. ITS BOORING IVE BEEN TO SEOUL, EVERYWHERE AND THERES NOWHERE ELSE TO GO AND PEOPLE DONT SPEAK ENGLISH !! GRRR!!
KOREA IS VERY AMERICANIZED AND IS SOO UNFAIR THAT THEY DONT SPEAK ENGLISH, AMERICANS ARE HERE FOR A REASON NOT BECUASE WE WANT TO BE.. TRUST ME IS NOT ONE OF MY FAVORITE PLACES AT ALL… I CANT WAIT TO GO BACK TO THE STATES OR SOMEWHERE ELSE..I RATHER BE IN JAPAN INSTEAD.. KOREANS ARE MEEAN PEOPLE ,THEY DONT LIKE US HERE.. ON THE TRAIN IS A PAINFUL EXPERIENCE CUZ THEY DONT EVEN WANT U TO GET ON IT. HOW ABOUT WE JUST PULL OUT AND LEAVE THEM WITH THEIR NEIGHBORS(NK) SEE WHAT THEY DO AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT AMERICANS BEING HERE! WE DONT WANT TO BE HERE!!!!
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