The normal caveats apply when it comes to Korean polling but this recent poll does show how non-sensical Korean public perceptions can be:
North Korea’s nuclear brinkmanship seems to be having an effect on South Koreans’ mindset. Fewer South Koreans want American forces to withdraw from the peninsula this year than last, according to the latest JoongAng Ilbo survey. The annual survey also showed that optimism for Korean unification is down.
Some 1,200 people over age 19 participated in the annual poll, jointly conducted by local poll taker The Opinion and the JoongAng Ilbo, the JoongAng Daily’s sister company.
Around 6 percent of the respondents said U.S. troops should completely withdraw from South Korea, while another 45 percent said they should leave gradually. The combined figure, 51 percent, rose steadily from 39 percent in 2003 to a peak of 62 percent last year. About 34 percent said they want U.S. troops to stay for a significant period, while another 15 percent said they wanted continuous U.S. presence. [Joong Ang Ilbo]
You can put me in the gradual withdrawal category because as I have written about before, immediate withdrawal is not going to happen for a variety of reasons. If the Korean public wants a gradual withdrawal of USFK then they can start by lobbying their politicians to push for their completion of the USFK relocation plan that the Korean government remains committed to delaying.
What really frustrates me but at the same time doesn’t surprise me in the least is who Koreans view as their least liked country:
This year’s poll showed a staggering increase in anti-Japanese sentiment. About 57 percent ranked Japan as their most disliked country, up from 38 percent last year. China and North Korea followed with 13 percent and 10 percent, respectively.
A country that is no threat to the existence of Korea is least liked then a country, North Korea committed to completely communizing the Korean peninsula and threatening to turn Seoul into a “Sea of Fire”. Another country China, has been actively stealing Korean history, beating down Koreans in the streets of Seoul, and propping up North Korea, yet is liked more then Japan. To show how irrational this all is, Koreans that were polled said that despite Japan being their least liked country, it is the country they should most likely emulate.
For those not familiar with Korea this may make no sense. However, for those of us familiar with Korea this all makes perfect sense.
Popularity: 2%
3:18 pm on September 25th, 2008 1
GI Korea,
I immensely respect the work you put into your posts, but I think you can stand to tone down on the “irrationality” part a little.
I generally disagree with what the majority opinion in Korea says, but that opinion is not necessarily “irrational” — just less persuasive. It’s a topic where reasonable people may disagree. The way you use the word makes Korean people sound like they are completely crazy. You know they are not. One can make a fairly reasonable argument for all the “irrationalities” that you pointed out.
5:42 pm on September 25th, 2008 2
GI Korea, you have to read between the lines here–when Koreans say (none of the ones I know, but in this poll) they “dislike” Japan, they are expressing jealousy, and when they soft-pedal China and NK they are doing it out of fear and intimidation. That’s why they dislike yet want to emulate Japan. Korean tourism to Japan has shot up in recent years, not decreased. But the flames of resentment are kept burning here.
These polls are generally BS anyway because there’s no side questions to understand what like and dislike means in this context.
6:29 pm on September 25th, 2008 3
Here is what irrational means on Dictionary.com:
Opinions on Japan are made with emotion and not reason and that is how I interpret irrational to mean.
Despite past historical wrongs and the Dokdo issue having a strong relationship with Japan is in the national interest but is prevented from happening due to the deep hatred of Japan.
I have asked Koreans before why the hate Japan so much and the usual reasons of colonization, comfort women, no apologies, Dokdo, etc. are given. Thus I always reply yes those are valid reasons but both North Korea and China have more recently invaded South Korea then Japan. Both China and Japan have killed more South Koreans then the Japanese ever did during the colonial period. China is directly responsible for the current division of the country, Japan is not.
The North Koreans and Chinese have to this day never apologized for the aggression and division of the country, at least Japan has given half hearted apologies. Currently a systems of tens of thousands of Korean sex slaves is active in China where Japan’s sexual slavery happened 60 years ago. And the list goes on and on.
There are plenty of reason on why North Korea and China should be hated more or at minimum just as much as Japan, but they are not. That brings up the question of why?
My opinion is that hatred of Japan promoted by the Korean media and politicians comes with no consequences. As we have seen over and over again hatred of China comes with consequences and thus why Koreans are reluctant to openly bash China as they do Japan. Hatred of NK is kept to minimum due to inter-Korean relations concerns as well as ethnic ties. Personally I find it hard to hate people in such a pathetic state as NK anyway. I can hate the regime though.
And yes Michael Korean polls are dubious and thus why I always leave a caveat when posting on them.
8:04 pm on September 25th, 2008 4
I have noticed this when I was living in the Philippines also…the Spanish were there for 333 years, but you will rarely hear Filipinos complaining about the legacy that they left after over three centuries. America was the Filipinos Colonial Masters for only 48 years, but you would think that it had been from time immemorial to hear the Filipinos complain.
Thus I see “Selective Blame” exhibited by these two countries…The Americans vice the Spanish in the Philippines case…and Japan vice China/N. korea in the S. Koreans case.
It would be interesting to hear if any other Asian races, or other races in general, exhibit such a displaced hate towards another country in proportion to time ruled over by a certain country, or by acts of violence, etc. exhibited.
10:01 pm on September 25th, 2008 5
ALL Koreans don’t want the US to leave … YET. This means that I believe ALL the Koreans want the Americans to leave eventually. Irrational Korean activists want the US to leave NOW…but more ratial ones want it later on. Most Koreans will agree that the US military in Korea is looked upon in the same way as the Iraqis view the Americans — as “occupiers.” The reason is that is just what we Americans are — and as unflattering as it may be, the US military should be aware of this. Though the US has been the “protector of democracy” in Korea since the Korean War, it has remained as the “big brother” in Korea — and became viewed as an “occupier” force.
Doesn’t anyone REALLY listen to the Koreans? I never fooled myself into thinking the Koreans WANTED the US military on its soil. We are here because it is expedient and the US presence meets mutual goals. But to say the Korean people “want” us here is too strong.
In Korea, the US has gone through many phases of its relationship with the ROK — from its wobbly steps to democracy under the corrupt thumb of the Syngman Rhee (Yi Syng-man) government through the iron-fisted dictatorship of Park Chung-hee through Chun Doo-hwan and the democracy stage with its mature partner after the Miracle of the Han. However, the US remained and its image as an “occupier” remains. It will not go away until the US military leaves Korea. Sorry…it may hurt the US feelings, but that is just the way it is.
However, Koreans are also realistic. Even Kim Il-sung stated that the USFK should remain AFTER the Koreas reunified. All the leaders want the US to remain to be the stabilizer — the cement that holds Korea together until it can do it by themselves. The idea is that the Koreans want the US to stay — but only until they can do it themselves.
Thus the statement — Koreans do NOT want the US military to leave — YET!
10:35 pm on September 25th, 2008 6
I do not think hardly anyone, but the dreamers, would say that the U.S. should stay here in light of the current attitude towards them.
However…once the Koreans come to some sort of realtionship/situation with the North, then a possible future basing agreement, which is conducive to popular opinion, would be benefical to all involved.
2:16 am on September 26th, 2008 7
“Opinions on Japan are made with emotion and not reason…” When the Roh gov’t declared “diplomatic war” on Japan because some little town was celebrating “Takeshima Day,” I said to a co-worker that it was an overreaction out of proportion with the levels of gov’t involved, and he replied “You don’t understand Koreans’ feelings.” Well, I understand Koreans’ feelings all too well, and he proved my point. Holding grudges for generations and lashing out at the one neighboring country that is friendly to you is self-defeating. The Korean gov’t sets the tone for the nation and like GI Korea said, having a strong relationship with Japan is in the national interest. Unfortunately President Lee uses Japan as a convenient whipping boy to distract people from domestic problems just like his predecessors and continues the manufactured outrage.
4:35 pm on September 26th, 2008 8
GI,
Most blogs from Americans on Korea like your, USinkorea, Metropolitician, Marmot and so on, are emotional responses to voice their frustration on Korea, and your comments are subjective reaction to what you thinks is the Korean “Irrationality”. In that aspect, I don’t see difference from your “rationality” to Korean “irrationality”.
I can accept that Americans and the rest of the world bear different opinion from me and the Koreans, but can you do the same?
Have you ever noticed how intolerant you are on subjects that Korea does not follow American opinion? You are a grown man so you should know that people have different opinions, but if there is something about Korea that you don’t agree with, you just label it as irrationality. It doesn’t seems to be rational to me.
4:51 pm on September 26th, 2008 9
GI Korea,
I agree with the dictionary definition - “mental clarity” and “sound judgment” are the proper meaning of “rational”.
But I disagree with the next step you take. You posit that because Korean people answered that poll with “emotion, not reason”, they acted irrationally.
It is perfectly possible to make a decision based on emotion with plenty of mental clarity and sound judgment. For example, right now I am considering asking my long time girlfriend to marry me. While there are a lot of different things I will take into this consideration, the most important basis for my decision will be based on my emotion: do I love her enough for that, or not? When I make my decision one way or the other, my decision would be based on emotion, but I still would have made it with sound judgment and mental clarity. (Hopefully!)
Similarly, the poll asked for people give their emotion toward different countries — which countries do you like or dislike? How could you answer that question without consulting your emotion?
They can, for example, put a stronger emphasis on a different set of facts while evaluating how they feel about different countries. Japan did wipe out Korea for 36 years — the feat that China and NK may have tried, but have not succeeded. That could weigh stronger on people’s hearts.
Sure, your arguments about the recency, lack of apology, etc., all make sense. But all I am saying is that not buying into your argument does not make Korean people irrational. You can be perfectly rational and still dislike Japan more than any other country.
In fact, I think the responses to “which country should Korea emulate more?” were telling. That is a question that depends less on emotion, and the answer was Japan. I’d say there is a fine display of rational thought. Koreans recognize that, whether they like it or not, Japan is on a similar trajectory as Korea, and it would be Korea’s benefit to emulate it.
7:38 am on September 27th, 2008 10
Koreans “rational” DON’T MAKE ME LAUGH.
Dokdo Rage
By Yun Chung
The rocks of Dokdo were lonesome until recently. Now, every cat and dog makes a pass at them. Recent love calls on Dokdo include “There Ain’t No ‘Do’ in Dok” and “Poem for Dokdo” in The Korea Times (July 24 and August 28) among numerous other articles. These two articles stand out because they caricaturized the Dokdo issue in Korea.
Dokdo became Dok in the above articles. The rocks of Dokdo bit their lips the first time being called Dok because there was some justification. There was, however, no justification the second time. Dok makes no sense in Korean or in English. It only jeers at the Dokdo emotion, which runs deep in me and many Koreans.
“Where is the beef?” This was a catch phrase of a TV commercial some years ago in the U.S. It derided small meat patties in competitor’s hamburgers and is still being used when the size or substance of an issue is questioned. Likewise, let me ask: Where is the “land” in England? Isn’t “Engisland” more appropriate than England? Why not, Engdo, Engdot, Engstan, or how about just Eng or Eng-Eng?
Am I being ludicrous? Yes. So is anyone charmed by Dok for Dokdo.
To British, England is England, no matter what. To Koreans, Dokdo is Dokdo, no matter what.
Kurri Kurri and Wagga Wagga are indigenous town names in Australia. Australians use these names without questioning their qualifications. Koreans call the Australian continent “Hoju” and the American continent “Miju.” To Koreans, Hoju is easier to say and sounds friendlier than Australia. Chinese and Japanese call Australia by similar names. Likewise, America is Meiguo in China, Miguk in Korea, and Beikoku in Japan. Anglophones call Nippon Japan, Zhongguo, China, Hanguk, Korea, etc. and do whatever else they like to do. So, why bash Koreans for calling Australia Hoju or England Yeongguk as if whatever Koreans do is ridiculous? Hoju and Yeongguk not on Royal Navy maps? Don’t be silly, please. Neither is Miguk!
Calling Dokdo Dok, however, is like calling England Eng. Both are absurd and should be not repeated.
To most contemporary Koreans, nothing is more painful and disgusting than having to relive the days of the Japanese occupation (1910-1945). Whenever Japan revives a claim to Dokdo, I think, in reflex, of the Japanese police and “Kempei” (Gestapo) who were rounding up teenage girls from a village where I grew up. Their mothers, distraught and wailing, kept on lunging toward a line of pony-tailed girls, trying to take their daughters back. Japanese Kempeis, hovering around the girls, kept pushing mothers away, kicking them as they fell down.
Girl’s fathers stood around some distance away, just glaring at their crying wives in disgust and their fear-gripped daughters in resignation. Kempeis put a white sash across each girl’s shoulder. It read: “Oiwai ? Tei-shin-tai,” meaning “Congratulations ? Body Dedication Corps.” I witnessed similar scenes repeatedly. We were told that the girls would serve as nurses and cooks for soldiers behind frontlines. When WWII ended, the truth came out: Japanese soldiers used them as “comfort women”.
The Japanese government insists no documented evidence exists for “comfort women” when the whole world condemns the atrocities. What kidnappers stick up innocence by claiming no “documented evidence” and get away with it? Japan behaves as if their only “crime” was having lost the war to the Kichiku-Beiei (Demonic beasts, Yankees and Brits). Disgusting.
Calling Dokdo Takeshima revives other disgusting memories of Japan in many Koreans. In reaction, enraged Koreans protested. Onlookers shook their heads as hyperbolic. Too bad, they had no background or compassion to understand the pains of the oppressed.
Blacks and Native Americans are the oppressed people in the U.S. The blacks have marched and even rioted. Hyperbolic? One of them may become a U.S. president. Conversely, Native Americans were driven out of their own fertile lands. Many are now subsisting on handouts, silently, on barren lands, called “reservations”. “What ya wonna do, Dok?”
“Dokdo Rage,” below, is in response to the “Poem for Dokdo.”
Do not go down gentle into the sea
I am a rough rock, take me rough
You’ve enraged me, O Take
Take me rough, O Take, rub me rough
Let me go tough and rough
Rub me rough, O Take, wash my rage away
Rub me, rub me, rub me rough
To wash my rage away
Go down rough into the sea
Shoot the rising-sun in the eye
Smash no shrimps between whales
Smash the rising-sun in the East Sea
Sing, Dokdo is our land
You and I are one in the sea, O Take
Sing, Dokdo is our land, O Take
To wash my rage away
Wash my rage away
Is Dylan Thomas crying? I have tried to learn from him only in part (“Do not go gentle into that good night.”).
The writer is a Korean engineer living in California. He can be reached at yunchung2@msn.com.
7:54 am on September 29th, 2008 11
Shattered,
I would like to congratulate your country for the spacial achievement (It is serious). You guys put a lot of money and effort on it. You deserved.
Maybe GI is right, we should put emotion aside and try to find a way to cooperate.