By Hyundai Motor Company is announcing that they will be releasing a hydrogen fuel cell car by 2012:
Hyundai Motor Co., South Korea’s largest automaker, said Tuesday it aims to start producing a commercial version of its first hydrogen fuel-cell car in 2012.
To meet the target, Hyundai will put more resources into research and development for such vehicles, the company said in a statement, without elaborating further. [Yonhap]
The car is actually pretty decent looking, better then a Prius at least. Here are some specs about this car:
Unlike its predecessors which were built on SUV platforms, the i-Blue features a new D segment 2+2 crossover utility vehicle (CUV) body type. The i-Blue is Hyunda’s first model designed from the ground up to use fuel cell technology, according to Dr. Hyun-Soon Lee, President of Research and Development.
The i-Blue is powered by a 100 kW electric motor and fuel cell stack. Fueled with compressed hydrogen (700 bar) stored in a 115-liter tank, i-Blue is capable of running more than 600 km (373 miles) per refueling and achieves a maximum speed of 165 km/h (103 mph). [Green Car Congress]
The first thing that comes to mind on this release is what will the cost of this car be? Hyundai hasn’t announced anything yet which leads me to believe it will be expensive. The other issue is that Hyundai will have to build some kind of infrastructure within Korea that serves hydrogen in order to support the vehicle.
It should be interesting to see how this turns out because Hyundai as far as I know will be the first motor company to release a hydrogen car.
5:51 am on October 28th, 2008 1
Uh, OK, where do I buy hydrogen?
6:14 am on October 28th, 2008 2
From your water department ha dum
8:34 pm on October 28th, 2008 3
Congratulations Hyundai. I will be one of the first to buy a HFCV and I'll put a big sign on the back telling OPEC and all their friends to kiss my ass!
8:35 pm on October 28th, 2008 4
Steve – you really walked into that one
10:41 am on October 29th, 2008 5
American, I’m sorry to say that a hydrogen car still supports OPEC.
Hydrogen doesn’t grow on trees and it indirectly requires OPEC oil to produce. In fact, hydrogen power is a great scam being pulled over on the consumer. While it is an energy storage medium, it is much more inefficient than other storage mediums.
The media echoing, “hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe” doesn’t help because it doesn’t explain that you need to oxidize the hydrogen to be of any energy-releasing value. Most of the hydrogen on earth has already been oxidized (also known as water) and it requires a great deal of energy to free up the hydrogen again.
The OPEC-fueled internal combustion engine is here to stay for a while. Hybrids are more efficient in they way they consume/conserve energy but they still rely on OPEC. Plug-in electric cars will come but they rely on electricity produced by fossil fuels (unless we allow more nuclear power).
I wish is wasn’t so but it is.
10:24 am on March 4th, 2009 6
most of the problem is over come a boost helping from government should get it hydrogen verhicals started to allow a new market local.2000,000 cars is needed a substantual po swation to build, as the oil is coursing stress with environment and baracka bamas govern ment i think arnold senitar the actor probably will put a working over energy system in carbon fibre or light metal and gortex filter, plus,
6:30 pm on March 4th, 2009 7
Alan,
I think your car runs on ethanol, buddy. And it is leaking fumes.
10:00 am on March 15th, 2009 8
not if competative sorry spelling energy conversion and a gortex filter, plus pill, be more so.
10:03 am on March 15th, 2009 9
using carbon fibre
10:04 am on March 15th, 2009 10
some of the facts are a bit out there about 1000,000 cars not two
7:23 pm on March 15th, 2009 11
alanward,
I can only guess you have one of those carbon fiber cars… and the glue was not yet dry when you started driving it.
10:09 am on March 24th, 2009 12
yes for a short time until pill validate,and its uses in fuel cells and hydrogen car to complete chicken before egg senario, otherwise hard to use, this is the only reason if delivered pills could help, speed and application to use despense and receive.
10:11 am on March 24th, 2009 13
designed into vehicles.fits into, and delivers small.thus.
10:12 am on March 24th, 2009 14
yes
4:23 pm on March 24th, 2009 15
Hmm your overstating a few things, and understating others.
Hydrogen Fuel Cells (HFC's) are easy to make, and are more energy efficient then Hydro-Carbon Compounds (HCC's). Getting Hydrogen is easiest from H2O, but it can also come from breaking down more complicated compounds. Recently a guy discovered a MUCH easier way to get Hydrogen has from H2O through the use of sodium-chloride (NaCl2, table salt) and a RF transmitter tuned to the right frequency (actually its so efficient that you can light the water on "fire" as long as the RF is turned on).
The real problem with HFC's is that Hydrogen is a really really really small atom. We're talking an atomic weight of slightly over 1, the smallest of any element in the universe. This means it "leaks" no matter what you do, hydrogen gas WILL leak out of the atomic sized holes in any crystalline lattice (aka metal) you put them in. This combined with the fact that hydrogen is EXTREMELY unstable and will "oxidize" with O2 the moment any form of thermal-electric energy is applied, resulting in an exothermic reaction.
The layman's description of the above is, H + O2 + fire = H2O + BIG explosion. You guys think LPG is dangerous, you should see what happens when an electric short happens near a HFC. Unless they have some very advanced explosion direction system, a HFC car is a moving bomb.
5:42 pm on March 24th, 2009 16
theotherguy,
Wow. I'm quite impressed with your vast knowledge of pop science.
Let's take a look.
"Getting Hydrogen is easiest from H2O…"
Yes. However, getting hydrogen from H20 requires breaking the bond between the hydrogen and oxygen. This doesn't happen by itself. This requires more energy input to accomplish than is returned when the hydrogen is re-oxidized for use. This is a net energy loss.
The end.
You can't argue with the laws of thermodynamics.
Hydrogen isn't a bad deal if you produce it with other renewable energy sources (hydro, nuke, wind, maybe solar) but, once again, it becomes an "energy storage medium" and not an actual source of power. It is not our savior.
Even with massive energy expenditure with pumping, shipping and refining, oil returns a net energy gain.
"…but it can also come from breaking down more complicated compounds."
Yes. There are other ways of making hydrogen. Almost all hydrogen now being made is from natural gas with the byproduct being carbon dioxide… hence continued reliance on the petroleum industry as well as continued CO2 emissions.
There are many other methods from Generation IV reactors to fermentation cells. Most of these are still on the drawing boards and the energy (and financial) cost of building the infrastructure is greater than the return.
"Recently a guy discovered a MUCH easier way to get Hydrogen has from H2O through the use of sodium-chloride (NaCl2, table salt) and a RF transmitter tuned to the right frequency (actually its so efficient that you can light the water on “fire” as long as the RF is turned on)."
No. It wasn't recently and it wasn't discovered.
One of the ways to tell if a "discovery" is false or not is to see if it is released through peer-reviewed papers or on YouTube.
Here is a basic physics lesson. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put in. This is one of the laws of thermodynamics. No Free Lunch is the how you might have heard it.
The RF energy going into the saltwater and breaking the hydrogen's bond with oxygen is greater than the energy being released when the hydrogen is recombined with oxygen above the water.
Worse, each conversion step loses energy with inefficiency. The hydrogen is made from RF energy which is made from electrical energy which is made far away in a power plant from LNG.
Wow! If he could just capture the hydrogen and sell it back to the power plant, he could keep a little for himself and have free power for his car!
This logic ranks up there with why you can't plug your power strip into itself and run your computer for free.
"(NaCl2, table salt)"
Normal table salt is just NaCl. If your table salt is the cation NaCl2, dinner must taste pretty interesting around your house.
"The real problem with HFC’s is that Hydrogen is a really really really small atom."
Technically, all atoms are small… at least all the ones that I haven't seen.
"…no matter what you do, hydrogen gas WILL leak out of the atomic sized holes in any crystalline lattice (aka metal) you put them in."
I'd better put a video on YouTube about my tank of hydrogen that I have had for 8 years which hasn't shown any drop in pressure. Do you think it is because of the thick orange paint on the outside sealing the hydrogen in?
"This combined with the fact that hydrogen is EXTREMELY unstable"
Wrong. Hydrogen is extremely stable. It does not decompose into nonexistium or anything like that. You can keep it for millions of years and nothing will happen to it… except some of it will change to helium if it is near a radiation source.
It is pretty reactive, though.
"and will “oxidize” with O2 the moment any form of thermal-electric energy is applied,"
Huh?
Actually, the opposite happens. When thermal or electrical energy is applied to water, it puts enough energy into the system to break the hydrogen/oxygen bond.
"You guys think LPG is dangerous, you should see what happens when an electric short happens near a HFC."
Oh dear. To the contrary, unlike heavier-than-air gasses which dangerously pool, leaky hydrogen generally goes up and is vented into the atmosphere.
"Unless they have some very advanced explosion direction system, a HFC car is a moving bomb."
Which would be very odd since the last time this was put to the test, there was no explosion. Long ago, before movies convinced everyone that any combustible material exploded by looking at it, a big bag filled with hydrogen called the Hindenburg caught on fire and DIDN'T EXPLODE!
What did happen was the powdered aluminum on the material-covered skin burnt like a mo-fo. The hydrogen oxidized as fast as it could while escaping upward.
There was no Hollywood-style explosion that wiped out a city block. People safely escaped the fire by jumping out of the windows and ran away from more burning hydrogen than your car will ever hold.
The next time this was put to the test was with the Challenger… but, instead of 20.9% atmospheric oxygen, there were tanks of pure oxygen to help things along.
Hydrogen's ability to oxidize rapidly in a pure oxygen environment is impressive… but then just about everything burns impressively in a pure O2 environment.
Don't give up hope. Perhaps there is a spot for you in Obama's administration as an energy or science consultant.
Thanks for playing. Come again.
6:02 pm on March 24th, 2009 17
Ok got tired of the rhetoric half way down your post.
#1, not once did I EVER state it would get more energy out then in. The breaking of the hydrogen bond required the EXACT same amount of energy it would produce. Inefficiency and lost energy (due to waste heat and light) make the usable return less. I'm well schooled in the physics involved, more then you are.
#2, Yes I screwed up the notation on Sodium chloride, NaCl2 is something quite different (but still a salt).
#3, Your knowledge of physics / chemistry is very basic, I'm not even going to attempt to correct you on all the screw ups.
I'm tired of your personal attacks, you attack everyone / anyone who disagrees with you and act as a forum thug. This needs to stop.
11:30 pm on March 24th, 2009 18
You just like getting punk'd, don't you. It's the only thing I can think could motivate you..
#1 "not once did I EVER state it would get more energy out then in."
That is true. I assumed you believed it. The reason I assumed such is because you spoke of the Amazing Burning Salt Water Device. Allow me to quote some information about this device:
"Efficiency-wise, they started at around 76 percent of Faraday's theoretical limit… They subsequently quietly reported that they surpassed 100% efficiency, which would mean that the system is somehow harnessing environmental energy such as from the zero point or some other yet-to-be discovered phenomenon."
Anyone who discusses this device is discussing "free energy" or they are less-informed than they pretend to be.
I am somewhat familiar with this "machine" since I have duplicated it with the 1 KW 13.56MHz transmitter from my ion etching system. I did not make any attempt to measure efficiency.
I'm not saying there isn't somehow accessible zero point energy… but I don't believe one guy looking to "cure cancer" stumbled upon it using table salt and a $5000 transmitter on a standard frequency that semiconductor techs have been playing with for decades.
Citing this machine in a discussion brings instant discredit to any points made.
"I’m well schooled in the physics involved, more then you are."
It could well be true… but I'm curious why you think so.
#3 "Your knowledge of physics / chemistry is very basic,"
That also could be true. I guess if I wish to win a Nobel Prize, I should pursue literature.
"I’m not even going to attempt to correct you on all the screw ups."
No. Please do. It should take little effort for a well-schooled guy like yourself to point out my screw-ups. I won't feel bad if you point out my mistakes. Why should I feel bad at becoming smarter? Educate me.
"I’m tired of your personal attacks,"
I have not once attacked you personally. I have only attacked your statements with which I disagree. Some of these statements have been personal attacks against me.
"you attack everyone / anyone who disagrees with you"
No. I attack the IDEAS of "everyone / anyone" who disagrees with me.
However, there is a difference between saying I am wrong and saying WHY I am wrong. Not to many people can do the second one… or even try.
"…and act as a forum thug."
I guess it's better than the forum biatch… but that's as close as I come to a personal attack.
"This needs to stop."
Waaaaaa! Be a man. Don't go out of your way to tell me I'm full of sh!t on every topic and then cry when you get the smackdown. If I'm full of sh!t, tell me WHY. Make ME fell like the biatch. Don't cop out with, "I’m not even going to attempt to correct you on all the screw ups." If you can't defend your inflammatory statements against "attacks" you probably had best unplug your keyboard and just be an observer.
But sometimes, it sure is fun to hit the spaz kid.
Dismissed, fluffer.
10:58 am on April 5th, 2009 19
no but to organize effiency you have to organize the most efficient steps. kno0wing and un,scenarios thwt make work new science included, discoveries on there own are inadiquit but necessary to make effient steps only from source at home or decental a effort. at maxium effiency.
3:18 pm on April 5th, 2009 20
Riiight.
I have to agree.
Inadiquit un,scenarios certainly are thwt to make effient steps or decental a effort.
Did you know that Alan Ward, spelled backwards, is "draW nalA"?
A definition for draw is "To eviscerate; disembowel."
NALA is the National Adult Literacy Agency.
God speaks to us in mysterious ways, Mr. Ward.
11:13 am on April 22nd, 2009 21
yes,yes the probality of approach to problem makes me think of the many angles one will take to be the solution.in some ways better than oil,and effiencies to supply,by which technology hydrogen demand.effinol??
1:18 pm on May 11th, 2009 22
electric with hydrogen works over time and a masses longer time in sun thus the excess is more work for time spent only work harder solutions.hydrogen renewable can be 24 hours, or space collecting sudenly it works more work in time less effort the efficient formula for machine now it can, to society space, centrol or not they work on there own in ther own time timing efficient thus becomes engine economy of scale.any others such as thorium or clean coal eventualy assist or plan or sun heat driven systems 24 hours and to work.now is economy of scale over area whos doing the work makes human work scale to continious storage hydrogen spaces.how big the work with out lifting a figure 24 hours or do you count walking talking.