By I don’t think this story really has anything to do with the election of Barack Obama to the US Presidency or even race relations in general in Korea:
Sitting in a Starbucks in Itaewon, arguably Korea’s most ethnically diverse neighborhood, a few nights after Barack Obama’s historic victory in the United States, I watch a group of swanky young Korean women come traipsing by, pausing as they pass a table of teenage African-American girls.
“They’re pretty, even if they’re black,” I hear them say.
The interaction reminds me that while Korea and the world stand poised to welcome America’s first black president and his promise of “change,” the reality on the ground is far more blunt. (….)
Obama’s victory seemed to carry across the Pacific, bringing with it a sense of hope and change for the better. And I begin to wonder, as I sit in that in-between world that is Starbucks, what kind of long-term change an Obama presidency will have on Korean society. Will Obama alter attitudes here toward race, long a central pillar of Korean identity? (….)
As I sip my coffee, I listen as the American teens’ loud chatter bounces from plans for the weekend to who said what and the latest hip-hop release. I think about how long it’s been since I’ve heard that voice, so distinctly American and so removed from the context of Korean society. They make no mention of Obama.
I figure they must be the daughters of one of the soldiers on the nearby Yongsan Garrison. What else could have brought them to Korea, I wonder. Across from me, a young, white American businessman occasionally glances over at the group, maybe irritated by the volume of their conversation, or maybe feeling that same sense of dislocation I am experiencing.
I know the girls at the table heard the comment.
“Oh no she didn’t,” one of them says. They may or may not have understood the words, but the meaning was clearly not lost. Then they get back to their conversation as the young Korean women glide out the door, smug in their high-minded progressiveness.
I’m stunned.
Maybe they’re used to that kind of treatment here or just don’t expect any better. At least that’s how I interpret their lack of reaction to the scene I just witnessed. And then I wonder whether maybe it’s a sign of progress, that these young Korean women, ignorant of their racial biases, were taking a cue from events in the United States. After seeing images of Obama everywhere, they were seeing black people anew. [New America Media]
In all my years in Korea I have never once seen a Korean person disparage a black person in English before like in this incident. At least from my experiences in Korea such an incident like this writer described is not common. What I have experienced is Koreans disparaging not only black people but foreigners in Korean. It didn’t take me long to recognize what words such as k’amdungee, yeontan, hookeen, huindungee, baekeen, etc. means. One of my favorite come backs when I hear someone talking about me is, “Jeo wonsungee aneyeyo.” That usually gets people to shut up real fast.
However I do have to say that such incidents are few and far between now and the acceptance of foreigners in Korea has generally improved significantly long before anyone in Korea ever heard of Barack Obama.
9:23 pm on November 13th, 2008 1
From what I have read on various Blogs/sites…I would predict that race relations will worsen…a shame since this is the time for shining…NOT gloating.
Have seen numerous instances of blatant racism against Blacks by Asians, even to the point of expressing their opinions directly to the person in question, it is not surprising.
“A Pretty Girl, is a Pretty girl…color doesn’t even come into play…”
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9:52 pm on November 13th, 2008 2
I agree with Calmseas, I have also heard many blatant comments disparaging blacks among Koreans. Including from my 80 year old mother in law. This should not be swept under the rug. China, from what I understand, even has a few ‘black ghettos’ that receive similar disrespect. Of course any upstanding Korean will tell you Koreans are not prejudice as they are all homogeonesiously Koreans, so how could they be. (I’ve come across this argument before)
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11:44 pm on November 13th, 2008 3
GI korea, I dont mean to belittle your sense of objectiveness here, but if you have been Korea for any signifigant portion of time; how is it possible not to have experience this? Korea for all its greatness is a vicerely prejudice country. I have heard everyone of the super openminded educated bunch to the cleaning ajumma use disparaging language towards blacks. In both Korean and english. One thing you are right about these outdated prejudices are not limited to blacks. they extend to japanese, jewish people, southeast and central asians. Is everybody in korea racist? No way! however, koreans do hold a lot of commonly accepted beliefs that are by nature racist. It would not be uncommon to hear a korean say.”i hate japanese” in both english or korean or “black skin is ugly” in both english and korean. so to say these incidents are far and few between is a little bit should i say disingenious…
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5:21 am on November 14th, 2008 4
Everyone knows that the majority of Koreans are “racist”, right?
Then explain to me why they overwhelmingly supported Obama.
It almost seems that clean-cut, well-mannered people with the appearance of similar values are respected by the majority of Koreans (and Americans) regardless of skin color.
It sounds like Koreans (and Americans) are guilty of culturalism against blacks more than racism.
“I don’t like black people because they have black skin,” and “I don’t like black people because they come into Korea Town and steal from our homes and shops,” are not both racist statements.
The line between racism and culturalism has been intentionally blurred by many groups, from an agenda-driven media pushing over-simplified concepts onto a dumbed-down population to those who use racism as a tool for financial and political gains.
It’s easier and more immediately productive to say, “They don’t like me because I’m black,” rather than, “They don’t like me because I act like nigga.”
Even CAPT AMERICA fell into this in the above post.
“koreans do hold a lot of commonly accepted beliefs that are by nature racist. It would not be uncommon to hear a korean say.”i hate japanese””
Anti-Japanese beliefs by Koreans are not racist because, well, they are the same race.
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6:30 am on November 14th, 2008 5
I don’t know how I’m being disingenious when like I said in the posting, not one time have I heard a Korean person disparage in English a black person to their face like what the writer wrote about in the article. If Koreans disparage black people or foreigners in general I have heard it done in Korean and this is because they figure the person they are talking about can’t understand them.
However the disparaging of foreigners in general is not even as bad as it was just 10 years ago. In my opinion attitudes have been changing for the better in Korea and it is not fair to lump the entire nation as being racist.
Like JAFO mentioned anti-Japanese sentiment is a whole different issue in Korea and not in the realm of racism.
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3:19 pm on November 14th, 2008 6
It would have been funny if one of the young black girls responded politely “You girls are also pretty, even though you are yellow”. Or “You are pretty too, even though you are Korean.” Simple polite retorts of jest can stun a person in their tracks and make them think. I’m sure in the Korean girl’s mind she felt she was being progressive, but if what I wrote had occured im sure she probably would have had a revelation.
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7:32 pm on November 14th, 2008 7
http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/34305774.html
A sign of things to come…
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4:42 am on November 15th, 2008 8
Ethnicity and Race are indeed different categorizations. However, anytime a person is singled out for either of them in a discriminatory manner its racist. Somebody cannot be Anti-Black, or Anti-Japanese, without being racist it’s not the same thing as being anti-American. Also, the race of the racist is inconsequential to the fact that they are still are racist. Even a black person can be racist against other black people.
Furthermore, I wasn’t trying to tag Koreans as a bunch a racist because of I did then I would be the one being disingenuous. Koreans as whole are definitely on the progressive road to improved race relations within this country. With that said, it is true there is still a long ways to go, but the same could be said for the U.S as well.
To say most Koreans supported Barrack Obama so that somehow vindicates Korea of any charges of Korea being more discriminatory towards blacks in comparison to let say white Americans or Europeans is overreaching to say the least….The fact of the matter Koreans are far more likely to feel less threaten and more open to a white person then they would be to a black person. There is no getting around that fact. Does that apply to all Koreans? Of course not!!
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7:49 am on November 15th, 2008 9
I have visited clubs in DongDuChon that refuse to play hip-hop because the proprietor does not want blacks in the club. I have also been told directly by some of the proprietors that they do not trust Americans or the Filipinas that they (for lack of a better word) “own” in their establishments. They feel the Americans would cheat them blind and the Filipinas would steal from them or runaway (hence causing a lack of return on their investment). The fact that the Filipinas are treated by some as objects and not people proves that Yes, racism/ethnic profiling is alive and well in Korea. However, that does not mean that ALL Koreans are racists. Only that it exists.
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12:59 pm on November 15th, 2008 10
Perceptions are often based on past experiences and probable actions…
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3:31 pm on November 15th, 2008 11
#10, So it is ok for Americans to presume Koreans are irrational uncontrollable mood swinging dog eaters based on what we see on TV and the internet?
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4:29 pm on November 15th, 2008 12
#11, knock yourself out on that tv & internet thing…do not really see what it has to do with “…past experiences and probable actions.”
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7:43 pm on November 15th, 2008 13
Korean’s racist? Who can judge!
Koreans do have a high opinion of themselves. Self esteem is Korea’s greatest natural resource. Korean pride knows no limits. Masters of the Universe, someday.
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8:49 pm on November 15th, 2008 14
“I watch a group of swanky young Korean women come traipsing by…”
This guy showed – right there in the opening sentence – that his intent was paint a picture where the Korean women were up to no good. “Traipsing” on by?? Look up the word in the dictionary. Swanky young women don’t go traipsing on by in places like Seoul.
And then the line about them saying “They’re pretty, even if they’re black.”
The suggestion that a swanky young Korean woman would say something like this to a stranger is so laughable…
This writer (maybe giving this person to much credit…so let’s say “the person who wrote this”), wanted to back his assertions so he had to come up with some “real” scenarios to prove his point. But this scenario is just too fake.
If you’re going to write fiction – at least make it believable.
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9:02 pm on November 15th, 2008 15
Read METROPOLITICAN. He finds a racist behind every door. Did he write the story?
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9:28 pm on November 15th, 2008 16
GUITARD, “’swanky young Korean girls come traipsing by’, his intent was to paint a picture where Korean women were up to no good”. LOL, you sound like my mother, who used to call any girl who wore a skirt above her ankles a “hoochy koochy girl”. I don’t think that was what GI Korea was implying. I think we understood what he meant, without them being ‘hoochy koochy’ girls.
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9:36 pm on November 15th, 2008 17
RICHARD, one thing I have learned in my travels around the world is that every country I ever visited thought they were the center of the universe. Ask any Chinese, Japanese, German, American, Egyption, Italian, Korean, Vietnamese, English, Frenchman? Nah, forget the French.
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10:24 pm on November 15th, 2008 18
I’m black here and everybody has been extremely nice and welcoming here…..I’ve yet to have any treatment that would be described as racism…..they even encourage me to go date local girls and constantly tell me I have a handsome face or that the Korean ladies will love me.
Most Koreans here don’t know any black people so any racism they do have is very shallow at best….
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10:55 pm on November 15th, 2008 19
To Gerry (ref #16): GI Korea didn’t write that line about traipsing by – the guy who wrote the original article wrote it – and that is the person to whom I directed my comments.
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11:20 pm on November 15th, 2008 20
GUITARD and GI KOREA, you are right and I misread your comment because of it. I stand corrected. In the words of the famous Emily Litela “never mind”.
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11:48 pm on November 15th, 2008 21
It’s pretty clear that the Korean women were speaking to each other in Korean, which is why further in the article the author writes, “They may or may not have understood the words…”
It is certainly the case that many Koreans will assume that foreigners cannot understand Korean and sometimes not censor themselves as much as they might when speaking in English directly to a foreigner. That right there is an ethnocentric assumption, of course.
It is not clear whether the author’s Korean ability was good enough to accurately pick the exact phrasing and nuance of what the Korean women said.
However, it rings fairly true to me.
I knew a madam in P’yongt’aek who had a half-black teenage daughter who dropped out of high school there because she couldn’t handle being called “komdung’i” all the time. They were planning to move to the US just to get away from it all.
This was about three years ago, I might add — around the time that Hines Ward hit the local scene and ostensibly improved the image of biracial kids here.
http://endic.naver.com/endic.nhn?docid=771100&rd=s
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7:55 am on November 16th, 2008 22
To King Baeksu (ref #21): I can’t imagine the author meant that the young black women probably didn’t understand what was said because the Korean women were speaking Korean – I took it to mean they couldn’t understand the Korean women’s broken/accented English.
I just read this article again – and it sounds even phonier than the first time. We’re supposed to believe that some well dressed (hence the adjective “swanky”) Korean women **paused** while walking by a table of young African-American women – and made a comment like that??
I call BULLSH1T.
Now…if he had said they walked by the table (no pausing…just walking by), very briefly stole a glance at the African-American girls, and then while walking away leaned toward one another and said in a hushed voice only loud enough for the others in their group to hear, “They’re pretty, even if they’re black,” giggle, giggle, giggle… I could believe the story. Of course, they would have been speaking in Korean.
The half-black girl ~ known to be the daughter of a madam ~ getting called names at school is an entirely different scenario. Korean school kids are brutal to anyone who doesn’t fit in – whether they are Korean or not. A half-black girl, who probably doesn’t have a father, whose mother is a madam – is going to get hit with the harshest of school-yard bullying every time she steps out the door ~ guaranteed.
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8:25 am on November 16th, 2008 23
Re. #22: Point taken, but why would Korean women be speaking English to each other?
“They may or may not have understood the words, but the meaning was clearly not lost.”
If what you are saying is correct, that they were speaking English, then why did the author use the word “understood” and not “hear” or “catch”?
In It’aewon, there are generally two types of “swanky”-looking young Korean women: tourists having a visit and looking for fun, or professional types.
I doubt the tourist types would dis foreigners like that so brazenly and especially in English, particularly since the tourist types tend to be cowed and intimidated by the whole It’aewon vibe.
On the other hand, if they were juicy girls, they might have just been trying to be catty, but I tend to think that working women in It’aewon would not be throwing their hard-earned money away at Starbucks. They generally just come to the ‘hood and go straight to work, rather than hanging out too much. In fact, many of them have day jobs as well and are quite busy.
My vote is that those Korean women were snotty, shallow Kangnam or Apkujeong types who were slumming in It’aewon and were not trying to be “progressive,” but just being bitches — and felt comfortable enough to do so on the assumption that the foreigners to whom they were referring would not be able to understand them.
Of course, Koreans tend to understimate the ability of non-Koreans to pick up vibes or notice subtle cues, so that is probably what the young African-American women were responding to.
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9:04 am on November 16th, 2008 24
Re. #23: What I meant is that the author tried to portray a scenario that the Koreans said something in English – but I don’t believe that to be the case. I just can’t picture it as he describes it.
My hunch is that he needed to complete is piece for the next edition of whatever rag he writes for, he’s not the sharpest pencil in the box when it comes to Korean culture, and he used a generous dose of creative license.
Complete conjecture on my part. But I have spent quite a few years in this place.
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9:32 am on November 16th, 2008 25
“he used a generous dose of creative license.”
In other words, he’s gone native.
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8:21 am on December 1st, 2008 26
Hmmm. People are people. Some racists, some not. I am African American, very dark complexioned. I have a Korean Aunt and a half Korean cousin. When my uncle first brought her home, she could not speak a word of English. She was the nicest person I have ever met. They divorced and when he died, she was the only one who cried. She comes to visit us every few years or so. She is treated like a queen. Her Korean husband does not join her.
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