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	<title>Comments on: Five Korean Sailors Taken Hostage By Somali Pirates</title>
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	<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/</link>
	<description>Korea From North to South</description>
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		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249928</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249928</guid>
		<description>JAFO
I am sure the naval forces providing a safe corridor of passage are using all available assets. The Indian ocean is some 28 million square miles (albeit not all in the pirates zone of operations.) Our surveillance assets are also being used to the max in places like Iraq and Afganistan. Even if some have been directed to be used off somalia, there would be thousands of boats daily needing to be individually identified and investigated. Currently the plan is to provide a safe corridor for shipping. The Saudi tanker from what I understand was outside of that corridor. I don&#039;t know what you mean by &quot;vast sums of money&quot; since our military expenditures (fighting two wars) are at historically low rates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JAFO<br />
I am sure the naval forces providing a safe corridor of passage are using all available assets. The Indian ocean is some 28 million square miles (albeit not all in the pirates zone of operations.) Our surveillance assets are also being used to the max in places like Iraq and Afganistan. Even if some have been directed to be used off somalia, there would be thousands of boats daily needing to be individually identified and investigated. Currently the plan is to provide a safe corridor for shipping. The Saudi tanker from what I understand was outside of that corridor. I don&#8217;t know what you mean by &#8220;vast sums of money&#8221; since our military expenditures (fighting two wars) are at historically low rates.</p>
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		<title>By: JAFO</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249911</link>
		<dc:creator>JAFO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 08:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249911</guid>
		<description>I see, CalmSeas. 
 
Clearly understanding what we are up against and using that information to formulate a response which works both in the short and long terms is semantics.  O.K. 
 
It&#039;s better give the enemy an emotionally-charged (if inaccurate) label, then sharpen our bayonets and charge in guns-a-blazin&#039; based on ignorance and misconceptions.   
 
Blackhawk Down comes to mind. 
 
After mistakenly identifying the enemy, reflecting on the difference between terrorists and bandits, and why the distinction is important, is &quot;not only ludicrous, but a huge waste of brain cells.&quot; 
 
Very well. 
 
There is no argument here that these pirates need to be stopped immediately and that rather Draconian techniques are acceptable, if legal and appropriate.   
 
But, for long-term success, there is a problem if our policy and methods in dealing with them are based on them being terrorists rather than bandits.  
 
There is also a problem if the voting public is misled; especially if it is being done to keep the myth of global terrorism alive so that more intrusive and restrictive laws can be pushed through. 
 
You appear to be a member of the voting public which has been misled to believe that every criminal is a terrorist.   
 
So be it. 
 
Now, as an added thought, I wonder why, with the incredible sums of money that have been spent on &quot;anti-terrorism&quot;, the militarization of our law enforcement and the creation of a navy capable of fighting major wars on multiple fronts, we are unable to use this as a training exercise to stop a handful of third-world thugs sitting in a brightly-painted metal box surrounded by a 450 mile radius of flat water under constant surveillance. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see, CalmSeas.</p>
<p>Clearly understanding what we are up against and using that information to formulate a response which works both in the short and long terms is semantics.  O.K.</p>
<p>It&#039;s better give the enemy an emotionally-charged (if inaccurate) label, then sharpen our bayonets and charge in guns-a-blazin&#039; based on ignorance and misconceptions.  </p>
<p>Blackhawk Down comes to mind.</p>
<p>After mistakenly identifying the enemy, reflecting on the difference between terrorists and bandits, and why the distinction is important, is &quot;not only ludicrous, but a huge waste of brain cells.&quot;</p>
<p>Very well.</p>
<p>There is no argument here that these pirates need to be stopped immediately and that rather Draconian techniques are acceptable, if legal and appropriate.  </p>
<p>But, for long-term success, there is a problem if our policy and methods in dealing with them are based on them being terrorists rather than bandits. </p>
<p>There is also a problem if the voting public is misled; especially if it is being done to keep the myth of global terrorism alive so that more intrusive and restrictive laws can be pushed through.</p>
<p>You appear to be a member of the voting public which has been misled to believe that every criminal is a terrorist.  </p>
<p>So be it.</p>
<p>Now, as an added thought, I wonder why, with the incredible sums of money that have been spent on &quot;anti-terrorism&quot;, the militarization of our law enforcement and the creation of a navy capable of fighting major wars on multiple fronts, we are unable to use this as a training exercise to stop a handful of third-world thugs sitting in a brightly-painted metal box surrounded by a 450 mile radius of flat water under constant surveillance.</p>
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		<title>By: JAFO</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249632</link>
		<dc:creator>JAFO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249632</guid>
		<description>CalmSeas, 

To intelligently discuss something, a consistent and correct framework of reference terms is required.

One of the reasons America is currently doing poorly in fighting &quot;terrorists&quot;, is the pop-concept of a &quot;terrorist&quot; and their motivations is greatly removed from reality.

If stopping piracy is approached as terrorism, or what the FBI arbitrarily defines as terrorism for other political reasons, rather than as a crime for economic gain, it will be yet another endless war where we fight an endless stream of incidents without solving the underlying problems.

This is pushed as a KoolAid concept for those who gain from the situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CalmSeas, </p>
<p>To intelligently discuss something, a consistent and correct framework of reference terms is required.</p>
<p>One of the reasons America is currently doing poorly in fighting &#8220;terrorists&#8221;, is the pop-concept of a &#8220;terrorist&#8221; and their motivations is greatly removed from reality.</p>
<p>If stopping piracy is approached as terrorism, or what the FBI arbitrarily defines as terrorism for other political reasons, rather than as a crime for economic gain, it will be yet another endless war where we fight an endless stream of incidents without solving the underlying problems.</p>
<p>This is pushed as a KoolAid concept for those who gain from the situation.</p>
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		<title>By: CalmSeas</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249608</link>
		<dc:creator>CalmSeas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249608</guid>
		<description>#16: &quot;...Almost everyone becomes a terrorist? The teacher, the peaceful demonstrator???&quot;

You do realize that we are discussing &quot;Criminal Acts&quot; taking place on the high seas...don&#039;t you?

Kool Aid threads are on another website... :wink:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16: &#8220;&#8230;Almost everyone becomes a terrorist? The teacher, the peaceful demonstrator???&#8221;</p>
<p>You do realize that we are discussing &#8220;Criminal Acts&#8221; taking place on the high seas&#8230;don&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>Kool Aid threads are on another website&#8230; <img src='http://rokdrop.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=':wink:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249590</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 01:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249590</guid>
		<description>Terrorism or not, methinks it&#039;s time to send in Cobus Claassens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrorism or not, methinks it&#8217;s time to send in Cobus Claassens.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeC</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249693</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:36:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249693</guid>
		<description>I also think the word &quot;terrorist&quot; has lost its distinction. According to Rumsfeld, terrorist = insurgents = radicals. Is there a difference? Should their be a difference? Apparently we have decided we can come to terms with insurgents, i.e. the Sunni Awakening, but no one would ever suggest coming to terms with terrorists.  
 
The terrorist label can also be applied to both sides of an political or ideological argument. Was the Israeli Irgun a freedom fighting organization or were they terrorists. 
 
I think the motivation for the incident is important. Kind of like the difference between a kidnapper and a hostage taker.  
 
When those Korean Christian missionaries were taken in Afghanistan last year, the Taliban claimed political terms for their release. They demanded the withdrawal of troops and the release of prisoners. Then they were hostage takers and I would consider that more an act of terrorism. But in the end, they released the remaining captives after a ransom was paid. If their initial intent was to get a ransom payment, then they would be kidnappers and I would call that act a crime. 
 
I said of the Somali pirates, &#039;Money is where these group&#8217;s loyalties begin and end.&#039; I believe that their acts are kidnappings and not hostage taking. I would call them more criminals than terrorists. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also think the word &quot;terrorist&quot; has lost its distinction. According to Rumsfeld, terrorist = insurgents = radicals. Is there a difference? Should their be a difference? Apparently we have decided we can come to terms with insurgents, i.e. the Sunni Awakening, but no one would ever suggest coming to terms with terrorists. </p>
<p>The terrorist label can also be applied to both sides of an political or ideological argument. Was the Israeli Irgun a freedom fighting organization or were they terrorists.</p>
<p>I think the motivation for the incident is important. Kind of like the difference between a kidnapper and a hostage taker. </p>
<p>When those Korean Christian missionaries were taken in Afghanistan last year, the Taliban claimed political terms for their release. They demanded the withdrawal of troops and the release of prisoners. Then they were hostage takers and I would consider that more an act of terrorism. But in the end, they released the remaining captives after a ransom was paid. If their initial intent was to get a ransom payment, then they would be kidnappers and I would call that act a crime.</p>
<p>I said of the Somali pirates, &#039;Money is where these group&rsquo;s loyalties begin and end.&#039; I believe that their acts are kidnappings and not hostage taking. I would call them more criminals than terrorists.</p>
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		<title>By: CalmSeas</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249654</link>
		<dc:creator>CalmSeas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249654</guid>
		<description>#20: 
 
To digress from the subject matter and attempt to divert the thread into a socio-political soap box for the justification of arguing about what is, or is not an act of Terrorism, and to relate it to &quot;Teachers &amp; Protesters&quot;, when the party in question has &quot;Pirated&quot; over 80 vessels this year alone, and has an estimated &quot;100 Hostages&quot; in their possession...is not only ludicrous, but a huge waste of brain cells. 
 
The Somalia Warlords are Criminals and Muslims...they have ties to Al Qaeda, but do we have proof that they are directly involved in transferring the $$$ gained from piracy &amp; KFR? No, not at our level at this point. Is piracy a well-known avenue of gaining funds to support Al Qaeda?  Yes &amp; very documented. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.icc-ccs.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.icc-ccs.org/&lt;/a&gt;  
 
You want to argue semantics while these Clowns continue to commit their acts of piracy with impunity...knock yourself out. 
 
I&#039;ll continue to to keep abreast of the situation, come up with ideas &amp; proposals to solve the piracy problem...and continue to sharpen my bayonet. :cool: </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#20:</p>
<p>To digress from the subject matter and attempt to divert the thread into a socio-political soap box for the justification of arguing about what is, or is not an act of Terrorism, and to relate it to &quot;Teachers &amp; Protesters&quot;, when the party in question has &quot;Pirated&quot; over 80 vessels this year alone, and has an estimated &quot;100 Hostages&quot; in their possession&#8230;is not only ludicrous, but a huge waste of brain cells.</p>
<p>The Somalia Warlords are Criminals and Muslims&#8230;they have ties to Al Qaeda, but do we have proof that they are directly involved in transferring the $$$ gained from piracy &amp; KFR? No, not at our level at this point. Is piracy a well-known avenue of gaining funds to support Al Qaeda?  Yes &amp; very documented. <a href="http://www.icc-ccs.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.icc-ccs.org/</a>  </p>
<p>You want to argue semantics while these Clowns continue to commit their acts of piracy with impunity&#8230;knock yourself out.</p>
<p>I&#039;ll continue to to keep abreast of the situation, come up with ideas &amp; proposals to solve the piracy problem&#8230;and continue to sharpen my bayonet. <img src='http://rokdrop.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt=':cool:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249645</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249645</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRWt1of1syA&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Oh yeah!&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRWt1of1syA" rel="nofollow">Oh yeah!</a></p>
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		<title>By: CalmSeas</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249600</link>
		<dc:creator>CalmSeas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249600</guid>
		<description> &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&amp;view=visualization&amp;controller=visualization.googlemap&amp;Itemid=89&amp;phpMyAdmin=F5XY3CeBeymbElbQ8jr4qlxK1J3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabri...&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&amp;view=visualization&amp;controller=visualization.googlemap&amp;Itemid=89&amp;phpMyAdmin=F5XY3CeBeymbElbQ8jr4qlxK1J3" rel="nofollow">http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabri&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: JAFO</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/16/five-korean-sailors-taken-hostage-by-somali-pirates/comment-page-1/#comment-249588</link>
		<dc:creator>JAFO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=9816#comment-249588</guid>
		<description>CalmSeas, 
 
&quot;The FBI defines terrorism as: &quot; 
 
Exactly.  Almost everyone becomes a terrorist.  The teacher who coerces the student to study for the social objective of a better educated population; the peaceful demonstrator who pushes aside a barricade to protest government abuse;  etc. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CalmSeas,</p>
<p>&quot;The FBI defines terrorism as: &quot;</p>
<p>Exactly.  Almost everyone becomes a terrorist.  The teacher who coerces the student to study for the social objective of a better educated population; the peaceful demonstrator who pushes aside a barricade to protest government abuse;  etc.</p>
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