ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on January 28th, 2009 at 10:29 am

Is this the End of Osan’s Juicy Bars?

» by in: Ville Files

I have been searching around trying to confirm the RUMINT that the juicy bars at Osan have been put off limits and may become “Sports Bars” instead.  I went and checked the USFK website’s Off Limits Areas page and they list the following clubs in Osan off limits:

  • UN Club
  • Star Dust
  • Roxy
  • Chicago B
  • Golden Gate
  • Bada Bing
  • Youngchon B
  • Blood Club

The website has no information on why they are off limits, just the map pointing them out as being off limits now. Having never been stationed at Osan AB cannot tell anyone if these clubs are shady establishments or not so I will leave that to everyone living in the area to comment on.

However, I checked the 8th Army, 2nd Infantry Division, and AFN-Korea websites as well and they have absolutely nothing on why the Osan clubs are off limits.  Stars & Stripes and USFK Forums had nothing either.

So if anyone knows what the deal is in Osan feel free to comment.

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  • Rob
    9:25 am on January 28th, 2009 1

    Yep, they're off limits:Civil Gathering, Osan Air Base (Main Gate) Notification Report CJPM 090127-001Group Name: Songtan Bar Owners What: Civil Gathering, 100 Participants Where: Osan Air Base (main gate area), Osan When: 28 January 2009 through 20 February 0800 to 1800 Why: To protest eight Songtan bars being made off-limits to SOFA personnel. How: Participants are expected to gather at the Osan Air Base main gate and carry banners and signs while chanting slogans. Risk: LOWProtective Response Actions/Measures: All agencies should take appropriate actions to coordinate with installation force protection and law enforcement activities in preparation for the appropriate level of security response. To obtain updated information regarding this civil gathering contact the USFK PMO at DSN: 738-4749, 8070 or CIV: 0505-738-4749, 8070. Remarks: This event is expected to be peaceful.Information received: 27 JAN 09, 1430 hrs.This information was obtained from AFOSI 5 FIS.

  • Unsatisfied LG DACOM Victim
    2:25 pm on January 28th, 2009 2

    They will remain places of prostitution regardless of whether or not they call themselves sports bars. By the way, isn't the Youngchon club a tranny bar?

  • JAFO
    2:21 pm on January 28th, 2009 3

    UPDATE:This is going around at work. It looks like a solution has been reached. Read carefully.—–Civil Gathering, Osan Air Base (Golf Course)Notification Report CJPM 090127-001Group Name: Songtan Bar OwnersWhat: Civil Gathering, 100 ParticipantsWhere: Osan Air Base (golf course area), OsanWhen: 28 January 2009 through 20 February 0800 to 1800Why: To explain "special situation", return bars to on-limits with reduced town patrol awareness, work out "special arrangement" for next quarter.How: Participants are expected to gather at the Osan Air Base golf course while carrying gift bags, white envelopes, enhanced discretion and a lot of promises.Risk: PROFITABLEProtective Response Actions/Measures: All parties should take appropriate actions to inform wives of sponsored shopping trips, prepare for large and expensive meals, obtain parking spaces for imported cars, arrange storage space for unique gifts, have Korean wife's relatives open a new bank account in a dead cousin's name. To obtain updated information regarding this arrangement contact Kasy Lee at the tailor shop with all the pictures of him gladhanding past base commanders.Remarks: This event is expected to be peaceful and rather sneaky.Information received: 27 JAN 09, 1430 hrs.This information was obtained from AFOSI 5 FIS.

  • kormatt
    4:55 pm on January 28th, 2009 4

    JAFO,TO FUNNY!!!!!It's nice to see that Osan is stilling running the same as Casey ville.

  • SilentGrayFellow
    6:38 pm on January 28th, 2009 5

    WTF? Seems to be no reasoning here as to which bars are off limits and which are not. This link, although not listing all the bars, shows the reason why they are off limits:<url&gt ;http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/Uploads/330/OffLimits12Jan09.pdf</url&gt;

  • Nomad
    10:15 pm on January 28th, 2009 6

    JAFO,ROTFL! :)Probably a lot of thruth to that though ;)

  • Mark
    1:50 am on January 29th, 2009 7

    I'd like to summon ChickenHead.

  • chefantwon
    5:02 am on January 29th, 2009 8

    Damn, the UN Club is the only name I even reconise from my Osan days.

  • Unsatisfied LG DACOM
    9:11 pm on January 29th, 2009 9

    Commander Michael J. Taliento Jr., You go back to Afghanistan again.

  • GI_Korea
    9:33 am on January 30th, 2009 10

    LOL, for those that don't know COL Taliento had put the bars outside Camp Humphreys off limits before and the bar owners protested and posted a sign in front of the ville demanding that COL Taliento go back to Afghanistan. http://rokdrop.com/2005/08/14/trouble-brewing-a…..

  • Leon LaPorte
    1:40 pm on January 30th, 2009 11

    Not only that, USFK had to send someone else down to negotiate with the merchant association because they wouldn't even talk to Taliento. Why?Many of the bars declared off limits for "underage drinking" were done so via bogus CID stings where a person of legal age would order the beverage and then a "minor" agent would appear and take delivery. Not exactly kosher. Sort of a bait and switch.The whole thing was idiocy and manufactured entrapment. .

  • JAFO
    7:39 pm on January 30th, 2009 12

    Stars and Strips did an article on this.qwert <a href="http://yhttp://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=60353yhttp://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=60353<br />It is a very odd article. The best way it can be described is that S&S reported some facts but didn't report any news, if that makes sense.There are some serious questions that a real reporter would ask to clarify the story.A good example:"…eight local bars remain off limits after Air Force Col. Thomas H. Deale, commander of Osan’s 51st Fighter Wing, concluded they might have been allowing prostitution."The commander "concluded they MIGHT have been allowing prostitution"? Which is more unbelievable, a commander said it or a reporter accepted it as a complete answer to an important question? I don't know how it is supposed to work but when a business can be put off-limits without any evidence because something bad MIGHT have happened, it seems pretty conducive to corruption. If I was on town patrol, I'd go to a club owner and say, "I'm going to make a report that I think I witnessed some prostitution and human trafficking going on here. Of course, if you send a couple of those girls and a case of beer to my room after curfew, I could forget it all."

  • Kalani
    10:03 pm on January 30th, 2009 13

    The Stars and Stripes article is indeed curious — Anjung-ni and Shinjang Mall are two different entities. Mr. Kim from Anjung-ni had his problems with Taliento, while the Osan AB folks were remaining open with no problems. Loved that little bit at the bottom of "Love Taliento" — when I have the photos on my site of the signs that would have wanted him to return to Afghanistan and WORSE!!! Yep, news stories sure get "curious."But the main thing is that protests only happen after the bar owners association reach an impasse with the base. The 28 Jan meeting being reported as "cooperative" is strictly b.s. since you don't have protests unless you're butting heads.Just an old-timer and non-bar runner for 30 years, it sure looks like the new wing commander has fallen into the trap of mixing up the MORAL issue of human trafficking and the LEGAL issue of prostitution. If he has, he will soon realize that the Korean National Police (not the riot police you see at the gate) control the situtation legally. These are the KNP stationed at the Songbuk Farmer's Market police box which just REOPENED after almost two years absence after moving to Seojong-ni. If Wing Commander has stepped into that cesspool, he will be up to his eyes in shit in a very short time. Many of you remember the spin-offs and ramifications of this stance and the troubles it can bring. I sure hope the new Wing Commander hasn't fallen into the trap of arranging "sting operations" off-base where he has no legal jurisdiction. He will soon be up to his eyeballs in kimchi.

  • GI_Korea
    1:42 am on January 31st, 2009 14

    I think you guys are right on what is going on at Osan. This could turn into a shite storm real quick considering how bars are being put off limits because they "might" be conducting prostitution.

  • Leon LaPorte
    12:51 pm on January 31st, 2009 15

    Yep it is a slippery slope when these guys let their "moral compass" and puritan ideas overwhelm the rule of law. (remind you of anyone?) What is it about USFK and not being able to treat people right and follow rules and regulations, correctly?I'm not a huge fan of these club owners and they certainly are not angels however this whole idea of preemptive persecution is a bit scary. No telling who he might go after taking into consideration things which *MIGHT* happen. I certainly hope this is not true. Taken to it's logical conclusion, the base commander *MIGHT* become a raging pedophile and should therefore detain himself.

  • JoeC
    4:02 pm on January 31st, 2009 16

    While Stars and Stripes claims to be independent and objective, and even hired an ombudsman to promote that claim, when was the last time anyone has seen any ground breaking investigative reporting from that rag. It is no more than an extension of the military's public affairs department. It's so called reporters do no more than repeat what they are told by military commanders.

  • 100 months-plus
    4:46 pm on January 31st, 2009 17

    I was stationed at Osan 4 times, total of 8 1/2 years. I was an Air Force Security Policeman, spent some time on Town Patrol, and later as a commander I walked with them too. I wasn't a barfly, but went to my share of welcome and going-away parties in them. Never bought a girl a drink, or paid for/received anything else from any of them. I don't think it's a coincidence that this emphasis on PHT did not happen while the girls who were being trafficked were all Korean. It was not until the non-Korean women began showing up on stages that our leadership noticed they were being exploited. Shameful.The Yongchon and Golden Gate are established and very popular, modern and comparatively spacious. The UN is also well-established, but at least a tier lower than the others. I've been in the Star Dust and Roxy only responding to an incident. The others are too new for me to comment on. There is plenty of precedent for clubs being placed off-limits for various violations. There was a period after 9/11 when all of them were off-limits until force protection measures were adopted. Most of the measures could be described as "security theater", but they had to comply to get back on the "good list". For the next few months, they were checked frequently, and many clubs were on and off limits multiple times each week. Crazy time.

  • Chris
    9:48 pm on February 1st, 2009 18

    I don't know about all of the bars that are on the Off limits list but I know for a fact that Eagles & Stardust have human trafficking & prostitution. Now while I do agree that if the commander is doing it because he "THINKS" they do that is wrong but of course in the Air Force common sense is mostly lost as what the commander says is what happens. The rumor I am hearing is that a lot of the officer's wifes have complained about them which is why this has happened. OF COURSE this hasn't been proven but I am friends with a couple of the girls so they tell me what they get told & then I get what I get from my flight chief with his many tours in Korea experiance to make my reasoning behind things.Most of the girls that I know came here because they were told they were going to be singers or dancers as well as that they were going to get a lot more money then they really get. As an example the one girl I'm friends with & ran away from Stardust was told she'd be a singer, as she sang since she was a kid in church, as she'd make 600.00 a month there with it being a year contract. In the Phillipines it's corrupt & most people are poor so while to us American's 600.00 a month isn't that much but to them they'd be close to rich. So what happens when she gets here? Well they take her passport, tell her she's only getting around 200.00 a month & explain to her how her next year is going to work. They are only allowed out at Stardust from 3 to 5 pm for "free time" as other then that they are stuck in the apartment. They have to use some of their money for food & if they get sick they are screwed as they won't take them to a hospital. Once a month they get a day off & you can take them to hotels for 300.00 dollars. With the bars off limits they are closed & they are allowing them a bit more free time but they are not paying them anything which means the ones that have kids back home are getting nothing as it's not the girls fault the clubs are off limits but the bar owners who are slave owners & pimps. I was even told that one of the girls that went to the embassy here to Phillipines that they wouldn't help her because her pass port was expired as well as she was reported as a runaway which keeps a lot of them from running away because they don't want something on their record. Their adults so I don't understand how they could be runaways but yeah so this will probably be a short term thing BUT even if this was only done for unfounded reasons I am one who is happy they are off limits as it's allowed some more of the girls to take the chance to run away as it also hopefully will hurt the owners enough that they may change how they operate.I know it probably will do nothing but hurt the girls that stay as sooner or later they will just move them into the real Korea away from the base where they will be treated worse but you can always hope some good comes out of it.

  • Unsatisfied LG DACOM
    7:10 am on February 2nd, 2009 19

    I would tell you that local Stars and Stripes reporters are no more professional reporters than the good folks at the AFN Update. If they were real reporters, they'd be somewhere else working for something bigger.In addition to this, proper news organizations work at the direction of a board of editors that directs which way the organization will generally go. Although Stars and Stripes is technically independent of the DoD's official stance on things, it will go no further than the limits imposed by its editors. If they go too deeply into the facts in ways that paint local commanders in a negative light, they will soon find themselves unsupported by said commanders and lose access to subsequent material for their stories. No stories, no business.

  • Villain
    1:41 pm on February 2nd, 2009 20

    I 'll give you my two cents. I have heard the I have been tricked story before. Most of these girls know what they are getting into. Some of them have worked in multiple countries of the world. I know guys who bought out their contract, married them only to have trouble getting them a visa to the US because of their past employment background. Either they were working here in Korea under a different name or they had worked in an unfavorable country of the US . The case I knew was a guy married a girl from the PI who had worked in Lybia. Since the curfew has changed to 0300 on weekends MWR Korea wide is loosing tons of money on booze at the clubs. Maybe they are behind this. Also they are trying to get more dependents over here. The leadership wants to legislate peoples morals and make it a smoke free, booze free, and sex free military. What I think will happen is the bars will be just a place to drink with no girls just like it is in other overseas areas. I could care less.

  • JAFO
    2:36 pm on February 2nd, 2009 21

    100 months-plus,"It was not until the non-Korean women began showing up on stages that our leadership noticed they were being exploited. Shameful."An old-timer told me the real reason was that nobody cared when it was Asians being exploited by other Asians. Once the blond-haired, blue-eyed girls started being pimped out by Asian traffickers, everybody from officers' wives to leadership to the media took notice and a stop was put to it. Once the Russians were gone, and it was once again Asian-on-Asian trafficking, nobody cared again. As the Filipinas are still here, it kinda makes sense.I guess when you were running things and walking on TP, the PHT was just as obvious then as it is now. What was the command climate like back then? Did they want these things to be reported so the bars could be shut down or did they discourage anybody noticing what was going on?

  • Villain
    3:42 pm on February 2nd, 2009 22

    Before when they had Korean bar girls, the attitude was just the opposite. You could get free condoms in on base medical facilities. The girls were checked on a weekly basis for disease and the one that tested positive were listed. Most girls had their own places to live and there was no curfew. In my opinion things were better and you did not have the problems that you have now. This is what outsourcing will do for you. Also back then you could get drunk downtown. As long as you did not get into any trouble no problem. Now if you look at a picture of a Cutty Sark bottle on the side of a bus you may have a drinking problem.

  • One Voice
    2:49 am on February 3rd, 2009 23

    @ Villain

    Man, we must have passed each other on the way to the chow hall from time to time.

    My first trip to Korea—my tour was such fun, I stayed four years. The military advantage in doing this is that when you get a "pisspoor" toon daddy or CO, you know they will pcs soon.

    Your correct, when the korean ladies were walkin their flat rear in the clubs, no one cared, and all understood the situation. Condoms at the TMC by the handful. "What? Ya went drinkin? Have a good time? Good! Don't fall out during the run or I'll have your ass." I loved that army! This army I read about now (retired in 2005) I don't recognize it.

    Be real here! Your old enough to die for your country, but not old enough to want to spread some legs? If your single, then what? An Officers wife is upset? Well, who the hell cares! If she is doing what she is supposed to be doing at home, she shouldn't be worried.

    And those LBFM's that now work the bars. Don't feel sorry for them. They are makin more in korea than they would in the PI doing the same thing. If anything, TELL YOUR virgin "horny" little troops what the real deal is when they inprocess. I know that these days it is a novel idea to TALK TO your troops, but it does help.

    Ok. I'm forcing my rant to end.

    I really hate stupidity. Know the differince between the boyscouts and the Military? The boyscouts have adult leadership. ;)

  • theotherguy
    1:46 pm on February 3rd, 2009 24

    One of the biggest reasons I left the Army (ETS'd out here) was that they wanted to always hold your hand and tell you what your morals should be. It was like they were trying to control your thinking for you, instead of teaching responsibility.

    Now as a contractor out here, I can say its a 180 turn around, you can go out and just have fun without worrying about what the military will try to do. Just don't hang out in the "villes" near the base's, those are ghetto land anyway. Get away more and explore where the natives go and things get alot more fun.

  • You can't handl
    1:05 am on February 13th, 2009 25

    Most of the people on this site don't get it. In order to put a place off limits the installation has to have evidence of something harmful to the soldiers/airman. The place in questions gets to have an appearance before the base leadership to tell their side. The eight clubs off-limits are that way because they ran prostitutes out of their club–several airmen have been NJP'd because they pandered for prostitution. Say what you got to say to justify your running the 'ville and hooking up with prostitutes, but it is what it is, and in todays 24hr news world, a commander that knowingly allows his troops to solicit prostitution and frequent clubs that trafficking in clubs that abuse women, regardless of nationality, will have his ass handed to him by some congressman/woman. It's illegal by Korean law to solicit or traffick in prostitution. The difference is they don't enforce their laws. You get in a traffic accident or if Kn accuses you of bumping into them you have to pay a "private settlement" whether you are at fault or not. Your sypathy and loyalty is obviously not with the men and women in service to your country when you are picking the side of criminals over those military at Osan. Reading this crap is like listenting to a bunch of hypocrites…

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    2:45 am on February 13th, 2009 26

    I think there is a big difference for putting a club off limits because it "might" be committing prostitution and if it really is. If a club can be proven without a doubt to be committing prostitution then I would have no problem putting it off limits.

    However, putting a club off limits because the commander thinks it "might" be committing prostitution due to what they heard through RUMINT, then they asking for a sh**storm to happen from the club owners.

  • JoeC
    5:04 am on February 13th, 2009 27

    "The eight clubs off-limits are that way because they ran prostitutes out of their club–several airmen have been NJP’d because they pandered for prostitution."

    How do you know that? I really would like to know. GI Korea publishes Court Martial statistics here, but we don't get NJP reports. Some on base newspapers used to publish weekly summaries, but we don't get that anymore.

    If what you are reporting is true then you have exposed another mini-scandal.

    Several years ago, the military made a big deal about upgrading the act of soliciting prostitution to felony status; prosecutable with a punishment of a year in prison. Since we have never seen one of these offenses show up on the Court Martial dockets and you say that they are routinely handled by NJP then that means the military is still dismissive of the seriousness of the offense and that would be sending out the wrong message.

    If Stars and Stripes is a true newspaper, they should be informed of, investigate, and report this.

  • You can't handl
    9:41 pm on February 13th, 2009 28

    I couldn't agree more. And yes it's a fact these bars run prostitutes, not a rumor. There is no "storm" coming from the owners, because the majority of the bars are in legitimate business. The few who are trying to make it w/prostitution are now being called out on it. The alcohol sales from the off-limits clubs are now going to the legit clubs who have no incentive to make trouble for the base. This is all about organized crime–the base took a stand. Now we wait to see if they keep that stand or they back down. Whichever happens, don't fool yourself all the clubs they have put off-limits–illegal.

  • JoeC
    10:34 pm on February 13th, 2009 29

    You misunderstood my question. I was asking how do you know that "airmen have been NJP’d because they pandered for prostitution"? Is that something you can support from a verifiable source?

  • You can't handl
    8:01 pm on February 15th, 2009 30

    Just ask the FW/PA office for a copy of the latest Jan A15s-you'll find two for "pandering"

  • Hardhead
    3:51 am on February 16th, 2009 31

    Holy crap guys – I have been in Korea for 19 years and I can tell you first hand Osan Bar owners have simply became GREEDY. If you visit a club like Sting on a Friday or Saturday night there would be about 14 girls working. Visit on Sunday – Thursday and you will see maybe 4-5 girls working. Where is Gina? Oh sir, she has the night off or sir, she is sick in her room. Come back the next night the same story.

    The girls get ONE night off a month – which entails maybe 5Pm – 9PM. Time off varies club to club. I was informed that Chicago barfines were 400,000 Won (~$300) for a night and cheaper for a week night. Sting had a 20 drink policy on weeknights… where if you bought your girl 20 drinks she could meet you after work.

    The Chicago owner was the most greedy and was placed off limits first. This owner also owns Stardust so she simply move the girls there and continued to push barfines.

    Above Chris is right about how the girls get trapped into coming to Korea. About 10-15% know what they are getting into but the rest have no idea. They only see the money. But he is incorrect about the Philippine Embassy. They try their best to protect the Filipinas here but the biggest problem is the Filipinas just want to go home and do not wish to fight the Korean bar owners. When a Filipina arrives at the Embassy requesting assistance they are placed in a safe-house. This safe-house is nearly the same as a jail with so many rules. But one needs to take in account the Embassys' side if they didn't have the rules they would be used for the wrong purposes.

    Most the girls that worked in Sting are now working in Korean Clubs near Jejedu Island. God, I can't tell you what they have to go through working in a Korean bar… so use your imagination. Most of the Stardust/Chicago girls are currently at the embassy safehouse.

    Camp Casy has another problem. Since barfines are closely watched the owners have raised their prices to make up for the lost greedy income. Beer is $4 or 5,000 Won unlike in Osan where beer is 2,500 Won. A bottle of water is $2-$3… and DUMB ASS soldiers and airmen keep on paying.

    Anyway, this is Korea and it is a Korean problem and not a US military problem. Korea needs to clean up its ACT if it wants to become a major world player. If a soldier or airman gets busted for prostitution put his ass in a Korean jail! The Korean bar owners are simply PIMPS – put the pimps in jail and the problem will go away in 30 days or less.

    HH

  • JAFO
    2:30 pm on February 17th, 2009 32

    Am I the only one who noticed there are currently no bars off-limits?

    It looks like Osan leadership finally understood the club owners' special situation.

    I think I'll celebrate with a $300 Filipina this weekend. Ooops. That would be prostitution. Maybe if I buy her 30 drinks, she will respect me enough to go to a motel with me.

  • JoeC
    7:38 pm on February 17th, 2009 33


    "Officials here have lifted a ban on eight local bars after the owners promised to keep them free of prostitution, underage drinking and other unsafe or illegal conditions, the Air Force said Tuesday."

    I wonder why the KNP and Pyeongtaek city officials didn't didn't get an agreement from base officials to do more to address the demand side of "the problem."

    There was a lot furious noise 3 years ago when the UCMJ was changed to make pandering a Court Martial offense. Zero tolerance? Now we find out the military is treating it no more seriously than they did before the UCMJ change. It was punishable by NJP before and we are told that it is still only treated as a NJP offense.

    The bar owners are not the only boogie men. The girls are also not all victims.

    Don't get me wrong. I am not for GIs being more severely punished. I personally don't believe CONSENSUAL prostitution and pandering should be crimes. Negotiation and bartering are inherent to every sexual relationship. Some people just have a problem when it's done explicitly. That's why I object to the amount of hypocrisy and meaningless rhetoric from the military on this.

  • JoeC
    8:19 pm on February 17th, 2009 34

    I posted a comment on this that seems to have been blocked. Oh well, it's not worth the effort to figure out why.

  • Hardhead
    9:57 pm on February 17th, 2009 35

    I was there Monday night and I included a list of bars that are STILL CLOSED – Yong Chon Nite Club just happened to open Monday night. The list included Roxy I was informed it never closed.

    * UN Club

    * StarDust

    * Chicago

    * Golden Gate

    * Bada Bing

    * Blood Club

    * Eagles

    * Stereo

    Why Mirage, Lazy Daze, First Class, and MoonPower were never closed is beyond me – they do a little monkey business as well.

    I will be back this weekend for a checkup.

    HH

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    12:00 am on February 18th, 2009 36

    JoeC, any comment that has the word sex in it gets moderated because of the amount of spam comments I receive that are from sex sites on the Internet.

  • Jimsinkorea
    12:16 am on February 18th, 2009 37

    All this cleaning up sure does take away from the experience one could get back in the 80's and 90's, and I am sure even worse before that, in Korea. I was a young guy in Korea and have stories that most young men could only dream about. It was crazy in TDC, nothing I did in the States prior to coming here even came close. Walking down in the ville was something comparable to "Blade Runner", it was an experience I could never explain to anyone who hasn't experienced it themselves. Bar after bar, prostitutes, fighting, puking, in bed by 0600 just to get ready for the next night to do it all over again. It was a way of life for just about every young GI at Camp Casey and I am sure at every other Camp in Korea during that time. Here's to all you who were in Korea during the good old days when going down range was a way of life… I'm sure most of you know what I mean.

  • Villain
    10:08 am on February 18th, 2009 38

    I sure do remember those days and you did not have all these sexual assualt problems that you have today. I remember during Team Spirit going to work at 0645 and the bars would be still going strong.

  • Yo Yo Ma
    12:56 pm on February 20th, 2009 39

    Amazed at the amount of misinformation out there … this is not business "as usual," there were no "base inpsections" that this was a show for, this is not about undercover military stings against Korean businesses … no, it's about the Wing Commander having the obligation to put bars "off-limits" that do not provide a safe and legal environment for our military members.

    The issue was that approximately 19 bars were exposed, during investigations of military members, as allowing, profiting, and encouraging bar fining (along with allegations of prostitution and human trafficking). The eight with the most evidence of a continued bar firing practice were immediately placed off-limits. The other 11 – along with the original 8 – were given the opportunity to meet before the Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board (a board that makes recommendations to the Wing Commander re: whether an establishment is adverse to the safety, morale, and good order and discipline of military members) to present their case for how they would ensure a safe and legal environment for military members. The goal of the board, and the Wing Commander, is not to punish … but instead to put establishments off-limits until they can demonstrate to the Wing Commander's satisfaction that they there establishment will obey the law and will provide a safe environment for our service members.

    USFK Regs specifically prohibit military members from bar fining employees and buying out employee contracts. This is not "illegal" under Korean law, but is illegal for military members. The establishments have known for some time these rules and that they must abide by them to get the patronage of military members. Otherwise, their establishment will be placed "off-limits" to military members. The reason it is "illegal" for military members is the recognition that bar fining is the mechanism that enables prostitution and human trafficking in this area. With many problems, it is necessary to treat the symptoms to get to the cure. The military does not do "sting" operations against local businesses … though they can certainly investigate military members that are violating the law. Enforcement of korean law (and sting operations) must be performed by the Korean National Police and other local law enforcement. Considering this limitation, it allows the military to address this problem through it's own military members conduct (bar fining). To fully address the issue, of course, it will also require active enforcement from the ROK.

    In this case, the local bar association requested to respond to all the allegations as one entity rather than each of the 19 bars providing a separate plan (18 of the 19 bars are members of the bar association). The bar association submitted a plan where they would police their own members to ensure compliance with both USFK regs and Korean law. They also understand that they will be held accountable, as a group, if their plan fails. If a bar has previously been engaged in this activity, and this plan proves ineffective in stopping bar fining, prosecution, et. al., the Wing Commander will readdress the appropriateness of placing each of these 19 bars off-limits. The bar association must effectively handle the situation themselves, or any confidence in their "plan" will fade quickly. In other words, each of the 19 has a stake in making sure this works.

    Even more importantly, the city was very involved in answering concerns. They intend to be actively involved in law enforcement and inspecting employee working conditions for evidence of human trafficking.

    Their are many establishments that have chosen not to utilize bar fining, prostitution, and human trafficking to run their business. For the ones that have not yet made that commitment to change, this is their opportunity. If they continue to rely on bar fining, prostitution, and/or human trafficking to make money, their days of benefiting from the patronage of military members will be over.

    The Songtan area is already much different than it was a mere 10 years ago. This is another step in the right direction of expecting establishments that rely on military money to survive to conform not only to the laws of Korea on prostitution and human trafficking … but to take an aggressive stance to eliminate the conditions that allows these things to occur.

  • Leon LaPorte
    6:47 pm on February 20th, 2009 40

    Yo Yo – "The military does not do “sting” operations against local businesses"

    Are your eyes brown? I am calling BS. Remember the problems at the Hump? They were directly related to bogus military sting operations. So, in fact, you have great insight but you are also spreading misinformation.

    A safe enviorment for military members? Pfft. More like political correctness run amok. The feminization of the US military.

    There are MANY practices by the local Korean populace which are unsavory and illegal (everything from rental contracts to illicit movie piracy). Once outside the gate illegal activity is unavoidable! If the base commander is so concerned about the soldiers welfare, why not cut to the chase and just lock down the installation for good?

    Why not revoke those golf course passes for all the "Good neighbors?"

    /and what about LT Davis?

    Kapchi Kapchida

  • ChickenHead
    11:20 pm on February 20th, 2009 41

    Yo Yo Ma,

    Your writing was refreshingly clear and factual.

    Despite this, you managed to cunningly misrepresent the real situation.

    Even with your eloquent explanation, it is rather apparent this entire ordeal allowed Osan to show they were "tough on HT&P"… while doing absolutely nothing to change the standard business model of Songtan juicy bars… which is not only structurally conducive to HT&P… but actually requires engaging in HT&P to be profitable.

    One can only speculate if this show was due to a desire to gain leverage over downtown businesses, the internal Air Force politics of promotion, outright corruption, or some combination of them all.

    As pointed out, Osan's relationship with clubowners has not always been ethically pure… as we remember the days of Lt. Jason Davis, Col. Maria Dowling and BG Maurice Forsyth… where shameless corruption was only thinly veiled… as a formality.

    Since HT&P is generally still ignored and Osan leadership still plays golf with the clubowners, I would say some things have only changed by degree.

    Regardless of Osan's spin, the real result is that nothing really changed. Any much-concessions made by clubs at this time will vanish at the next change of command (or sooner, once complacency sets in).

    As evidence, I site a decade of similar fake crackdowns, promoted with the same self-congratulatory rhetoric… which resulted in a few months of clubowners showing a bit of discretion in the mechanisms used to collect money from young, horny GIs.

    Rather than pick apart each of your idealistic points by contrasting them with the gritty reality as seen by a GI sitting in a bar, allow me to ask a single question to determine if you really believe what you wrote… or if you were tasked to do it.

    The entire business model of foreign juicy girls, and every aspect from their recruiting to their housing and job duties, fit the internationally recognized definition of "human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation."

    If Osan is serious about stopping HT&P, why are these clubs simply not put off-limits until their foreign girls are gone?

    I await your response.

    J!

  • You Can't Handl
    1:03 am on February 22nd, 2009 42

    Chicken–you are aboslutely right, the entire place should be put off-limits because your logic is right on–the "juice" trade and use of foreign girls are the obvious signs of the overt sex trade in Songtan.

    Yes the bar owners not only golf on base, they are honorary commanders or "good neighbors."

    The local Songtan Health office still checks "entertainers" for STDs every six months. Why do waitresses need STD checks? Because they are prostitutes and apparently as long as they only put GIs at risk they don't care.

    So now that we know the business is corrupt, the girls are monitored by the Kn government for STDs, the owners try to buy favoritism through golf–and you as an NCO or Officer are charged with doing the right thing–what do you do? Not the base leadership, not the city leadership, what do you to set the example for your people, your son, your daughter, knowing that this is a trade of human trafficking?

    Cut the whining and justifying and tell me what the right thing to do is.

  • JAFO
    10:57 am on February 22nd, 2009 43

    Chickenhead, you just asked the $64,000 question. I bet you get a 64 cent answer, if you get one at all.

  • Burma Bob
    1:43 pm on February 22nd, 2009 44

    Why stop at total lock-down of all the bases?

    Make pre-deployment castration (chemical or surgical) part of the normal levy process for troops bound for USFK. Let the command watch "A Clockwork Orange" to get even better ideas for development of sex aversion therapy. Make profession of faith in a choice of evangelical Christian churches part of the promotion and career progression; double points for Mormons.

    Take all alcoholic products and any printed matter that even smacks of smut off AAFES shelves. Allow only highly filtered internet access, and only in specially monitored and highly public cafes, say, like post chapels.

    In other words, put the Taliban in charge of the program, and they'll make short work of this problem, with admirable despatch.

  • Leon LaPorte
    9:06 pm on February 22nd, 2009 45

    Indeed, I am waiting with bated breath for the non-misinformational, command approved, answer!

  • You Can't Handl
    12:08 am on February 23rd, 2009 46

    You are correct. We all agree that P&HT is flagrant and present in some but not all bars in Songtan. The clubs that were put off limits by Osan and the additional 12 they warned are all guilty of continuing a five decade old policy of providing prostitutes to foreigners; some willingly and others against their will. Some of the owners of the bars put off-limits are members of the Bar Owners Association and most of them are indeed Honorary Commanders or Good Neighbor Pass Holders.

    Prostitution is illegal in Korea. USFK has a zero tolerance policy. Solicitation of prostitution is illegal by the UCMJ. It is within a commanders discretion to offer A15 or go direct to CM. It is a service members discretion to refuse an A15 and ask for CM. So far, Osan has punished every service member they have evidence against of engaging in prostitution.

    The Korean National Police have yet to arrest a single bar owner, close an illegal club, or raid an overpopulated apartment of illegal girls. The local Korean Health Department continues to perform STD checks of the girls–who allegedely only serve alcohol. Funny, no waitresses in any of the other 20 countries I have been to need STD checks to wait tables.

    So to summarize–the majority of postings on this site are to cast derision at any attempt to put a spotlight on the illegal activity, because it's all in an attempt to just let "boys be boys." The base steps out to punish those in violation of direct orders and encourage the Korean Government to uphold their responsbilities and current and former military posers on this site encourage disobedience and weak Korean government action on their own laws.

    The bigger crime is not using the apparent rampant knowledge of criminal activity throughout Songtan shared by the posers on this site to help the base do their job or help the Korean government do theirs. As part of a society of others, you have a social contract with your neighbors; you are obligated to try and do the right thing and encourage other to do the same. If you can't honor that social contract than you should be cut from the society that provides all the things that relationship brings. Fullfill your responsibilities, if you got info go to the KNP or the base. Or just post here and hope someone else will do the right thing for you…..

  • chefantwon
    9:34 am on February 23rd, 2009 47

    I was stationed at Osan for 2 years in the 1990's, and now I hear that it is now illegal for service members to pay for sex. Interesting concept, especially in Korea where the bar scene is all about sex, or the hint there of.

    Everybody knew what was going on in those freaking bars. Hell they briefed you on it. So now they get their panties in a wad?

    While the human trafficing part makes for a touchie issue, prositiution is up to the home countries to enforce. From my reading, prostitution was made illegal, however Korea refuses to enforce it. Great, typical Korean decision, do nothing and have the American's take care of it. Meanwhile turn the other face and still receive bribes from the club owners. Classic Korean duality.

    The situation will likely never be solved as its a way of life for the club owners and those who do the trafficing. For the Korean government its a win because of the revenue both in taxes and the money to buy these girls out of their contract. The US can't fully stop the bars because of the revenue the troops dump into the local economy. This latest crap will go on for a few months and then simply just go poof and everything will still be the same. Except for the fact that all sides will once again be confortable with the status quo.

  • 80s 90s Troop
    1:17 pm on February 23rd, 2009 48

    @ 31 and 32

    Ahnn, good times. REALLY—good times. The first 4 years, the second 3 years === 2002 and 2003 mmmm-not so much.

  • Yo Yo Ma
    10:08 pm on February 23rd, 2009 49

    My only request … if you know of any factual information of bars/girls/or specific military members involved in bar fining, prostitution, or human trafficking (especially after 16 February when Songtan Branch stated they would begin inspections of the living and working conditions of the bar employees, as well as increased enforcement), please provide that information to Osan Security Forces — or call the USFK Human Trafficking Hotline at DSN 736-9333 or commercial 0505-736-9333.

    Also, if you haven't seen this, you can pull up the current USFK policy letter about this: http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/Uploads/140/USFK%20CPL12

    Attacking the issue of bar fining, prostitution, and human trafficking is not an easy fix (especially since the military does not enforce Korean law). It ultimately requires a culture shift re: what is and is not acceptable (both to military members and ROK) … and from what I understand there has significant improvement over the last 7-8 years (especially since USFK took the position that bar fining was illegal – making it much easier to punish military offenders). I'm sure that many times before the problem was foolishly declared as "solved" – it wasn't, just like such a huge situation is not "solved" today. It is, however, a continued move in the right direction. I hope that people do let the military know when a bar has chosen to ignore the prohibition on bar fining, prostitution, and human trafficking.

  • Yo Yo Ma
    10:19 pm on February 23rd, 2009 50

    Agree that this is not an "easy" issue. Many vices in the states have not been fixed (prostitution, drugs, etc). These are still problems in the United States. That does not mean, however, that we give up – but we continue to respond to the issues as they arise and do what we can do to better the situation.

    Rome was not built in a day …

  • theotherguy
    10:57 pm on February 23rd, 2009 51

    Ok and now for some reality to step in.

    The Military has -zero- right to be the "moral police". I agree that Human Trafficking should be highly illegal and not be supported. Human's are not slaves and should not be treated as such.

    Now with that being said, prostitution is one of the OLDEST professiosn for a really good reason. Prostitution is so embeded in the Asian culture, there is no way to remove it. It didn't suddenly "start happening" the moment the EWM (Evil White Male) arrived in Korea, its been here for all five thousand years of Korean history. Its technically "illegal" in South Korea, but ANYONE who's been here more then a few months, and has gone out past "the ville" into -real- Korea knows the deal. From expensive 200,000 won "delivery coffee" to the glass houses, to the little post cards outside the motels, its so common and natural that you might as well accept it.

    And before you shoot your mouth off, the reason the bars hire / import foreighn girls is because Korean girls are VERY expensive. Most call girls are actually colledge girls / grads who don't have rich parents to pay their way through and need money. They do it WILLINGLY and usually work at the "Korean Only" clubs / bars, ya know the kind that don't let soldiers (and most foreighners) inside. Only way in is to have a Korean friend take you. The fact that the native Koreans think absolutley nothing about it (nor do the Japanese, Chinese, Philipino's) should be indictive that they neither want, nor care for American self rightousness. Take your western morals and put em where the sun never shines.

  • You Can't Handl
    12:13 am on February 24th, 2009 52

    Fact–military are accountable by the UCMJ. If you don't like the UCMJ get out of the military. If you are contractor/civilian and don't like the hassle of the fringe military lifestyle, quit and work for the Koreans or go back to the U.S. The only drama here is justifying P&HT. What a stupid argument. It can not be justified. I loved the "prostitutes are just paying their way through college" defense; how many times has that line been used to make someone feel good about paying for it? If you gotta pay for it to get it, I don't care. What is unbelievable is how people tolerate others breaking the LAW and justifying human trafficking. Sad.

  • theotherguy
    12:30 am on February 24th, 2009 53

    I'm not military, so UCMJ doesn't apply. I don't feel the need to justify anything, in fact I didn't justify anything. Prostitution is exactly that, prostituion. Women who decide to exchange sexual favours for money, usually as the last resort to being homeless / out on the street. They did it thousands of years ago, they'll be doing it thousands of years from now, its like death and taxes.

    And no, I don't pay for it, I won't ever pay for something I can get for free. I can't stand people playing "moral police" trying to force their own beliefs onto others. And like I mentiond before, humman trafficking is very very WRONG and I'm 100% behind stomping that into the ground. Funny how they got you so brainwashed that you fell you MUST attack the "P" to the "HT" thinking their the same thing, when their not. The "HT" part happened because the local girls got too expensive, picky about their clients and where their willing to work. So the local bar owners decided to "out source", through disagreeable and often illegal methods.

    The actual act of exchanging sex for money is only wrong because your trained to think its wrong.

  • 80s 90s Troop
    1:23 am on February 24th, 2009 54

    A question for (you can't handle the truth): You don't pay for it?

    So, she takes you out? You don't pay for the meal? You don't pay for the room?

    Or if your married: She works and you don't? She pays the rent—not you?

    She gets on top and you lay there? Hey, whatever works for you :grin:

    I met a korean woman in the early 90's on Hooker hill. It was 0200 hours and she was sitting on a brick while reading a book. I asked what she was reading. She stated she was studing for a test. She was paying her way on the hill. I didn't help her out. I had already had my sex that night with a more wealthy woman who payed for the room herself.

    Now "truth", I don't care if you believe this. It is obvious to me that you haven't been out there. More likely that your wife made you write that PC rant of yours. I hope she rewarded you properly :lol:

  • chefantwon
    4:02 am on February 24th, 2009 55

    The fact that the UCMJ was changed just for this particular situation is what gets me. Where was all of this uproar in the PI, when we had troops stationed there? This stuff has been going on for more than 50 years, and now they are being the moral police?

    Prostitution is legal in quite a few countries including the state of Nevada, I am wondering how they are going to enforce this new moral attitude?

    YCHTT, some women do get into prostitution freely. They find that it can be good money, however most only do it until a particular goal has been reached. Like paying off student loans or saying money for a house. Yes, some of them are college women, just not every one.

  • You Can't Handl
    9:06 am on February 24th, 2009 56

    50 years ago we had separate lunch counters for blacks and whites, segregated schools, women couldn't do a man's job, and we performed medical experiments on our own soldiers. Today we are outraged by that behavior and it is is illegal. Give up the excuse that bad behavior 50 years ago justifies bad behavior today. If you can't change then you ight be part of the problem.

    I lived in Nevada. Prostitution is not legal in Las Vegas. In fact no where in Clark County is prostitution legal, which is where the majority of the popluation of the state lives. There are a couple of joints in the middle of the desert that have a few girls–nothing like the population we have in Songtan. That's a weak justification.

  • theotherguy
    12:47 pm on February 24th, 2009 57

    "Today we are outraged by that behavior and it is is illegal. Give up the excuse that bad behavior 50 years ago justifies bad behavior today. If you can’t change then you ight be part of the problem."

    Except.. we're not "outraged" by this behavior. The military didn't give a damn until that Fox reporter used a hidden camera to record footage of what went on up north. Then it was a bunch of political maneuvering designed to show "the US military does not support prostitution". With this maneuvering came the mandatory brainwashing and over demonization. See post below, in reality its just a few morally conservative folks pushing their morals and beliefs onto others.

    There is no argument involved, arguing about prostitution is like arguing about death. You can waste a whole lot of time debating the pro/con, but in the end, its still going to happen and there is not a damn thing you can do against it. Heck making it legal with proper laws and political representation would be the smartest choice, cause then you remove the underground / illegality from it.

  • JAFO
    2:07 pm on February 24th, 2009 58

    "Chickenhead, you just asked the $64,000 question. I bet you get a 64 cent answer, if you get one at all."

    We just got the 64 won answer.

  • guitard
    6:13 pm on February 24th, 2009 59

    I was a young guy in Korea and have stories that most young men could only dream about. It was crazy in TDC, nothing I did in the States prior to coming here even came close.

    My Infantry company used to have company parties down in the ville. When you walked in the door, the 1SG gave you a raffle ticket. At some point during the party, the company commander would draw tickets from a coffee can. 1st place was a free overnight with the girl of your choice. Second place was a short tiime with the girl of your choice. And 3rd place was blowjob.

  • Hardhead
    11:28 pm on February 24th, 2009 60

    Most Osan clubs "are" open and most are continuing business as usual. Upon entering one of the clubs that was placed off-limits this week I had a gal ask me to pay her day off. Koreans are Koreans – you think they are gonna change – yeah right!

    It doesn't take a genius to find out if a bar is pushing girls. Therefore one doesn't need to perform a STING operation.

    Myself, I really don't care if there are barfines as long as the girl agrees. However, there are many girls that are punished physically, mentally, and monetarily for not pimping their own ass. KOREANS cry about their women treated as Comfort Whores when Japan was in town… now look what they do the Filipinas!

    Take a look at Tokari and ask where did their juicy girls go – most run away within 2 weeks. They refer to the place as ToKa Hell!

    As Ned Flanders said –

    Why me, Lord? I've always been good. I don't drink or dance or swear. I've even kept kosher just to be on the safe side. I've done everything the Bible says! Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! What more can I do? I…I..I feel like I wannaa yell out, but I just can't dang-darn-diddly-darn-dang-ding-dong-diddly-darned do it! I just…I…*sigh*.

  • JoeC
    11:19 am on February 25th, 2009 61

    "Upon entering one of the clubs that was placed off-limits this week I had a gal ask me to pay her day off."

    All the Tourist Association Bars now have pretty yellow signs that say, "- No Prostitution, – No Bar Fining, – No Paying Day Off" Report violations to the management.

    You should have reported the gal to the management.

    I wish there was someone I could complain to about those proselytizing Christians that keep coming to my home and propositioning me.

  • JAFO
    1:24 pm on February 25th, 2009 62

    "You should have reported the gal to the management."

    Right.

    "Mr. Fox, the hen is looking delicious again."

    "We will get right on that. Thanks for your concern."

    It almost seems as if we have crossed the line from satire to farce.

    A better idea would be to call the USFK Human Trafficking Hotline and report the time, date, club and girl. You could also report it to town patrol. Then, when nothing is done, it will make a better story.

    In my observation, nobody will do anything about prostitution, human trafficking, married guys juicing or blatant ripping off of drunk and lonely guys. In short, other than show, no real action will be taken which affects the juicy bars' bottom line.

    If you report a club serving curfew violators, everybody from town patrol to leadership will come running and the investigative wheels will turn at high speed.

    I'd like to blame politics rather than corruption but I'm not so sure anymore.

  • Leon LaPorte
    5:51 pm on February 25th, 2009 63

    “You should have reported the gal to the management.”

    Where do you think the money you are paying her goes? The girl keeps a small portion of it. The bulk of this, shall we call it "ass money," goes TO the management. How do you think the menagement can afford that Daewoo Chairman that he drives through the gate? Why/how is he driving through the gate? Becasue he is a Good Neighbor and can afford the golf course dues, which I hear are quite high, but cheaper than a true Korean country club. He can afford it and has installation access to play golf because he runs an inferior entertainment establishment, playing crappy music, with overpriced fake, or watered down, drinks and PUSHES ASS!

    The golf course needs these type of members to stay open. Eliminate/scale back the golf courses and you have dealt a serious and deadly blow to PHT downtown. The pimps will go elsewhere and the legitimate businesses will remain.

    The command pays lip service to the whole PHT issue and occasionally destroys a hapless Joe otherwise known as a good service members' life/career to show they are "SERIOUS" about the issue. Those same commanders are out at the golf course with you know who. :razz:

    Now watch this drive.

  • Hardhead
    8:27 pm on February 25th, 2009 64

    If I reported the girl to management what the hell do you think is going to happen to the girl? Management assigns the day off – well a few hours. If a girl has someone to pay her day off she has to inform management anyway. Also most the girls live at the clubs or in a house own by the clubs with video cameras to watch and ensure they do not sneak out.

    Me a Christian? I have cancer – who the hell made cancer? Who allows baby's to die daily? Why is my BOSS a D_*K*?

    GOD created the world and it was good! Then what the HELL happened? Someone above made a mistake – uhhh that's impossible GOD doesn't make mistakes – but that is another story for Ned Flanders to partake.

    Go visit the ville and buy a $20 juicy instead of giving it to the priest to buy toys for his choirboys!

    AMEN and God Bless TROJANS!

    HH

  • Hardhead
    8:34 pm on February 25th, 2009 65

    Yo Yo Yo – one for Leon!

    Last year I called the Jack-a-Butt hotline to report a girl being forced into barfines at Tokori.

    An SSG answered the phone and I said I would like to make a report. When I mentioned the word barfine – the SSG stated, "Whats is a barfine!" NO SHAT! He then stated, wait and let me find the form to report that. I think we have one around here somewhere." He has no idea what he was doing in that position and he was an NCO!

    I took actions into my own hands with the Philippine Embassy's help… the owner was placed into jail for 6 months and the club has been closed until now.

    USKF HOTLINE – joke of the year!

    HH

  • JAFO
    6:21 pm on March 6th, 2009 66

    The customer strikes back!

    ab chttp://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=61179

    A few interesting observations:

    1. The Filipina was presented as a "bartender". Anybody know if she was really a "bartender" or just a run-of-the-mill juicy or a juicy who sometimes made drinks?

    I only ask because Stars & Stripes treads very lightly in matters involving juicy bars and has no problem shading or misrepresenting the situation.

    2. A guy generally doesn't try to kill a girl just because she is "not interested in him". Only a backstory involving money, juice and sweet talk truly explain actions like that.

    3. She was stabbed just after midnight on Friday night as "She was heading home from work". Bull. Nobody heads home around midnight on Friday with a 3am curfew. This is especially true with bartenders and Filipinas.

    This is just a working theory based on limited information but it sounds like she was barfined and was meeting another guy. That didn't sit well with GI Joe and things got all stabby.

    Once again, this is only a theory but it makes more sense than what is being publicly presented. Does anybody have information that supports or conflicts with this theory?

  • Leon LaPorte
    7:32 pm on March 6th, 2009 67

    Good observations. I'm sure the truth will trickle out.

  • JoeC
    8:04 pm on March 6th, 2009 68

    I know the bar. I know the girl. 'Was she a juicy girl', is a very simplistic question. The custom in most bars in this town is, if a woman works in the bar and you want to buy her a drink, you pay for a lady's drink; even if she is an adjuma.

    The woman was not under contract to the bar. She does not barfine.

    It didn't happen shortly after Friday night. "After midnight Friday morning" means it was after Thursday night curfew. I talked to another bartender in another bar who said the attacker was in their bar shortly before curfew and bought a round of drinks for all the women there. That would have been just before 12 midnight, and probably his last stop before he went off on his mission.

    There is more information and many more presumptions on this story, but I will hold off and wait to see how it unravels.

    How will the victim be treated? She is not Korean. How will the military respond? What is the military's obligation to her care and reparations?

    I ask that because we know that if she were Korean, senior military commanders would be at her bedside offering her sincere apologies, compensation, and possibly offering to fly in her parents to be with her at this time.

  • guitard
    12:33 am on March 7th, 2009 69

    How will the victim be treated? She is not Korean. How will the military respond? What is the military’s obligation to her care and reparations?

    I ask that because we know that if she were Korean, senior military commanders would be at her bedside offering her sincere apologies, compensation, and possibly offering to fly in her parents to be with her at this time.

    And how about the Korean gov't? How will it respond since she isn't Korean?

    And the anti-US NGOs? I'm sure they smell a good opportunity here.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    1:36 am on March 7th, 2009 70

    Gents thanks for the tip on this story. I have a separate posting up now:

    http://rokdrop.com/2009/03/07/filipina-woman-stab

  • Leon LaPorte
    1:15 pm on March 7th, 2009 71

    In light of recent events… Some appropriate, or perhaps inappropriate, quotes:

    Little Bill Daggett: Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!

    Will Munny: Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.

    Any man don't wanna get killed better clear on out the back.

    Little Bill Daggett: Now Ned, them whores are going to tell different lies than you. And when their lies ain't the same as your lies… Well, I ain't gonna hurt no woman. But I'm gonna hurt you. And not gentle like before… but bad.

    You better bury Ned right! Better not go cuttin' up, nor otherwise harm no whores. Or I'll come back and kill every one of you sons-o-bitches.

  • mj4life
    5:32 pm on July 26th, 2009 72

    Gentlemen, the smackdown in Osan is coming soon.

  • junior
    9:39 pm on July 26th, 2009 73

    From the 1st Sgt or from the Commander?

  • You Can't Handl
    1:24 am on July 27th, 2009 74

    By all means, share don't tease…

  • You Can't Handl
    1:30 pm on August 2nd, 2009 75

    I guess MJ moved off pen?

  • miss m
    3:10 pm on April 11th, 2010 76

    Good..they should be closed. My marriage ended because of a juicy bar whore!!

  • Hardhead
    5:09 pm on April 11th, 2010 77

    By all means they should remain open because you and others can't keep your man home. I left my wife in 1995… it is simply cheaper and better to rent a wife. FREEDOM BABY!!!

  • JoeC
    6:05 pm on April 11th, 2010 78

    Would closing Juicy bars have done anything to protect marriages from the good women in the States? Ask Mrs. Tiki Barber, Mrs. Jessie James, Mrs. Tiger Woods, Mrs. Mark Sanford, Mrs. John Edwards … Those are just the ones that made the news in the last year.

    Yes, it must be Juicy girls that are the cause of all marriage problems. Sheesh!

  • Retired GI
    9:48 pm on April 11th, 2010 79

    It would seem that the jucy bar whore was more willing and/or more able to PLEASE your man than you were.

    A happy man will not wonder far from home.

    If you could not keep him that is YOUR fault. Not the "whore".

  • Leon LaPorte
    10:05 pm on April 11th, 2010 80

    Perhaps Miss M should have been more of a "whore" at home and less and indignant "bitch" in public. :razz:

  • Pete
    7:01 am on April 12th, 2010 81

    One year tours have "corrected" a lot of marriages. Sometimes it is the service member who realizes they need a change and sometimes it's the spouse left behind. It really does not matter how long an individual was married, it is usually the fact they never really had an excuse, or the guts, to seperate from their situation. Then along comes the one year tour that provides the opportunity for this seperation. It is always a sad situation when there are children in the home. It may be better for the adults in the long run; if they were unhappy. However, I would hope that all marriages were solid enought to survive a 12 month seperation. But, this is not always the case. I know there is pain on both sides – I wish you the best Miss M.

  • Bob Cirelli
    3:45 pm on May 11th, 2011 82

    ;-) I was at Osan back in 70-71. Here is how it worked then.
    You could get condoms from your First Sgt, Sick call, or even as you walked out the gate. You had to show your SOFA card as you exited the gate and condoms were in a big box freely available.
    There were 13 clubs if I remember properly, 3 of which were (self imposed) black only.
    How the girls got to the clubs:
    Papa or Mama san would go out into the villages, and recruit young girls. They were told they would have their own room, lots of nice clothes and get to select their own furniture. They would sign a prommisory note for repayment. After a while, Papasan would tell the girls they had to start repaying. Since they had no other skills, he would send them (with an experienced girl) off to the clubs to bring GI’s home with them.
    In the clubs, there were 3 classes of ladies identified by their name tags. Red badge meant senior lady who basically ran all the rest of the girls. Next down the pecking order were yellow badges. They were like shift supervisors. The majority of the girls were green badge. Each and every badge had a number on it, that correlated with their permit, kept at the base hospital. When you left a club with a lady, you were given a slip of paper with the club name and badge number. If you came up with VD a few days later, the slip of paper identified the lady, who would have to come into the base hospital to get treated. Her badge was pulled, and she could not work in the club until she tested clean. The going rate when I was there was 2,000 won for an all nighter (300 won = 1 dollar MPC).
    There were always streetwalkers, basically girls without base clearance that worked for as little as 300 won.
    If you found a lady you particularly liked, you could work out a deal with papasan for a flat rate where you would pay eg $50 a payday, and the girl did not have to work in the clubs, and you had a steady girlfriend (yobo). It was funny because almost every GI on the street was “Sarge”. This was because your yobo fee was determined by your rank. Officers especially did not want to have to pay substantially higher yobo fees, so they would not want the girls to know they were officers. If you found a girl you really, really liked, you could negotiate with papasan to pay off her debt. It was usually in the area of $300 – $500, and the girl was free to stay with you. You then had to pay the hootch rent and make sure she had food, clothing, expenses etc. Many girls in this situation came to the US a wives.
    We had a midnight to 5 AM curfew in effect. So at midnite, you either had to find a gal for the night, or check into a hotel. Coming through the gate during curfew was pretty much an automatic Article 15.
    Sometimes when a GI had a steady yobo, and spent the night with some other girl, the yobo would be standing at the gate at 5:05 AM waiting for here boyfriend to come in. Lots of yelling about being a “butterfly” went on. Butterflys go from flower to flower, and butterfly GI went from girl to girl.
    All the girls were Korean, there were no other nationalities.
    Another point was we did not have US Greenbacks in country. When you arrived, you had to change your green money for Military Payment Certificates (MPC). This was done to keep USD out of the local economy. Periodically, there were be an MPC change, and everyone had to exchange their current MPC for the new edition. The gates were secured during MPC change. Many Koreans who had the old MPC would line the perimeter fence offering to have a GI change their old money out. You could often get an exchange of 50% from Koreans who would rather lose half than end up with nothing.

    Clubs:
    Ariang, Stereo, A-Frame, Papa Joes, Big House,
    are all I can remember.

  • ChickenHead
    5:14 pm on May 11th, 2011 83

    Ahhhh… good times.

    Osan kept all the dirt and corruption of prostitution and human trafficking but, since 2004 or so, did everything possible to kill the fun…

    …and they have been dry humping its corpse ever since.

  • Leon LaPorte
    6:23 pm on May 11th, 2011 84

    Ah the good old days… We used to be able to stick our pecker through the fence and trade a chow hall apple for a blow. It was the most protein* the girls got for a week. Hell, you could trade a case of spam for a years worth of indentured servitude from all the daughters in the family.

    *There are many ingredients composing semen. Here are a few of the constituent elements: vitamin C, calcium, chlorine, cholesterol, citric acid, creatine, fructose, lactic acid, magnesium, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, vitamin B12, and zinc.

    The caloric content of the average ejaculate is estimated to be approximately 5 to 25 calories — hardly the most fattening meal.

    Semen’s protein content is roughly equivalent to that found in the egg white of a large egg.

    /The More You know

  • Bob Cirelli
    9:25 pm on May 11th, 2011 85

    I forgot to mention, that in the early 70′s there were
    some 2,000 girls registered with the Osan base hospital.

  • scot
    7:49 pm on September 7th, 2011 86

    Yah the good old days, did 2 years at Osan 91-92 and it was much better that my last tour of 3 years from 99-01. My solution than? go to Angeles City in Philippines for leave. NO hassle from military there and NO curfew. Drink, party and fornicate with any female my heart desired. Those were the best days of my life!!

  • Jamal jones
    11:06 pm on September 21st, 2011 87

    So are there still filipinas working in the bars?? I plan to go back in late 2012

  • setnaffa
    10:00 pm on June 14th, 2013 88

    I’m confused by a lot of the folks here who appear to be actively supporting the bar owners and their “right” to demand American GIs break the law…

  • Avatar of Leon LaPorteLeon LaPorte
    10:42 pm on June 14th, 2013 89

    88. You break Korean law? It is up to the Korean police to enforce those laws and arrest anyone they catch. It is their country not ours.

  • Bob Cirelli
    7:37 pm on June 15th, 2013 90

    Anyone remember these places? (Back when there were only 2 paved roads in the ville).
    Arirang Bar
    Stereo Club
    A-Frame
    5 Spot
    Papa Joe’s
    Big House

    (Circa 1970-1971)

  • JoeC
    7:44 pm on June 15th, 2013 91

    #90

    I recall all but the first on your list. Stereo Club still exists.

  • asim
    11:23 pm on December 9th, 2013 92

    Used to shack up with a juicy back at osan 1994-95. She paid the downtown rent, I paid for food. Sounds like a lot has changed I see. Thought I may go back and visit as a civilian but think I may label it as a great time in the past and forgotten.

 

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