By Some of you may have noticed that one of my old postings about US Army deserter Joshua Key has now had a surge in traffic with a variety of blogs such as Blackfive, The Jawa Report, Ace of Spades HQ’s, Cold Fury, & This Ain’t Hell linking to the posting. I appreciate all the links and interest my posting on Joshua Key has created because I believe it is important that the lies he is continuing to repeat are exposed.
US Army deserter Joshua Key in need of a serious hair cut and shower.
Something else I found interesting is that someone has posted over at Joshua Key’s Wikipedia page that the ROK Drop is involved in a “controversy”. Get this the controversy is that I stated that Joshua Key was the first deserter to go to Canada since the Vietnam War when in fact two other deserters Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey went to Canada before him. I should have been more clear, Key is the first deserter to actually have served in Iraq to seek refuge in Canada.
What you see at Wikipedia is the usual tactic of many people of the far left, they try to twist one sentence to discount everything else that was in my posting about Joshua Key. Notice they cannot dispute the facts so they try to change the subject.
It is hard to take people like this seriously especially when they write songs like this, The Ballad of Joshua Key:
It is just me or did this guy cover every lefty cliche’ imaginable?
Anyway when I originally wrote the Joshua Key posting I had not read the book and just based the posting off of radio interviews Key did and book excerpts available on the Internet. I have since read his entire book and the holes in Key’s story are only greater after doing so. I was just going to let the first posting I did be the final word on what I think about Key, but since Key’s buddies updating his Wikipedia page want people to believe there is some controversy going on, then lets start a controversy; namely one where Key can explain all these facts I’m about to lay out after reading Key’s book.
Fact #1: Cow Tipping is Impossible
The lies start out early in Key’s book when he is describing his childhood. On page 25 he talks about how he and his friends would go cow tipping when cows go to sleep standing up. He says the cows would fall over like “bowling pins”. I grew up in the country with cows in a field behind my house. Cows do not sleep standing up and cow tipping is an urban legend. Go to YouTube and find a successful cow tipping. If it could be done it would be all over YouTube. Key is lying because there is absolutely no way he was knocking over cows like bowling pins.
If you don’t believe me go try it yourself and film it. So since he is clearly lying about this it puts into question everything else he describes about this childhood in Oklahoma.
Fact #2: Timothy McVeigh was Not a Gunnery Sergeant
On page 30 of the book key claims that Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was a Gunnery Sergeant in the US Army 1st Infantry Division. McVeigh was not a Gunnery Sergeant because there is no Gunnery Sergeant rank in the US Army. This book is so sloppily written that the writer Lawrence Hill couldn’t even bother to do a simple Internet check to figure out that McVeigh was a Sergeant in the Army.
It also further shows the incompetence and stupidity of Joshua Key that he didn’t even recognize there wasn’t a Gunnery Sergeant rank despite having once served in the Army. There are only Gunnery Sergeants in the Marine Corps.
Fact #3: Key’s Recruiting Claims Are Full of Falsehoods
Towards the beginning of Key’s book he states that his recruiter’s name was a Staff Sergeant Van Houten. On Army Knowledge Online everyone in the military has an account that can be looked up. Even people who have retired or left the Army can still be looked up on the system. So I looked up Sergeant Van Houten on AKO and guess what, there is no Sergeant Van Houten, there is not even one Van Houten of any rank in the Army.
Key also says a government employee by the name of Daniel Russell also worked at the recruiting station. However, there are no government employees by the name of Daniel Russell on AKO. There are three contractors, but none of them working for recruiting.
In the opening chapters of the book Key goes on and on repeating every left wing talking point about recruiters praying on poor people and minorities even though as statistics show this is not true.
Key also claims on page 44 that the recruiting building he was in had a poster that said that “Desertion in the time of war means death by firing squad” and that he had to sign a document saying he understood that poster. This sounds like utter BS to me because I have never seen such a poster and I signed no such document when I joined the Army and I know of no one else who had as well. So considering Key has an imaginary recruiter this sounds like an imaginary poster and document as well. Has anyone else seen such a poster and document?
If you listen to this Canadian radio interview with Key he claims 99% of the soldiers in his unit were recruited because they were poor and had no other options in life, but to join the Army. For you all in the military reading this, did 99% of the people in your unit join up because they were poor and had no other options? Of course not and the statistics show this.
If you look at this graph that displays recruiting numbers from the Pentagon the highest number of people in the military are from the middle class. A very small number of recruits are considered poor and their total number is below the national average for 18-24 year old recruits. The upper middle class and even the wealthy are at or above their percentage of population for 18-24 years old. Once again Key is full of crap.
Finally Key claims that his recruiter told him that he would go to a unit that would never deploy or see combat. If you can believe this Key joined the Army after the 9/11 terrorist attacks and thought he would never have to go to war. The guy is an idiot if he thinks he would never have to face the possibility of going into combat after 9/11. He is even more of an idiot that he thought he would never have to go to combat when he voluntarily chose to become a combat engineer. You would think the word “combat” would have tipped him off. Furthermore the secondary military occupational specialty of a combat engineer is an infantrymen!
In this Canadian radio interview Key also claims that being stationed in CONUS means you do not have to deploy. That is not what CONUS means. CONUS means Continental United States compared to OCONUS which means Outside the Continental United States. CONUS simply means you are stationed in the mainland US. It has nothing to do with whether you are deployable or not and Key had to know this unless he is that incompetent.
He additionally says in the interview that 47 Army recruiters went AWOL two months before his interview which is another lie. In fact 37 members of Army Recruiting Command went AWOL between 2002-2005. Army Recruiting Command is not all recruiters. It is a huge organization that has all the elements of a typical Army command to include supply sergeants, personnel clerks, mechanics, chaplains, etc. that could have gone AWOL. Plus 37 people going AWOL in four years in a unit composed of five brigades isn’t unusual. Plus many times when people go AWOL they come back. Key is once again not telling the truth.
Key is clearly both an idiot and a liar.
Fact #4: Rent in the Military is Free
On page 42 of his book Key claims the military lied to him saying that rent in the Army is free, but when he joined he later found out that they docked $700 a month from his paycheck for rent. What Key doesn’t tell you is that Basic Allowance for Housing is added to a servicemembers paycheck to pay for housing. I have long chronicled here on the ROK Drop the various people getting arrested for BAH fraud because they were falsely claiming BAH for a city their spouse did not live in.
That $700 coming out of his paycheck every month is from his BAH to pay for his on post housing. Key is either so dumb he doesn’t know what pay he is getting in his paycheck or he is lying. Either option doesn’t look favorably upon him.
Fact #5: You Don’t Receive 8 Shots of Anthrax at One Time
Key on page 43 of his book claims the military gave him 8 anthrax shots at one time. First of all you do not receive 8 anthrax shots at one time. In fact only six anthrax shots are given over an 18 month period:
Although many servicemembers experience temporary pain or soreness at the injection site, most individuals experience no significant reaction. The anthrax vaccine series consists of six shots: the initial, then at two and four weeks, then again at six, 12, and 18 months. Following the initial six-shot series, members only require annual boosters. No shots are ever repeated in the series, rather members will receive the next shot they are due based on the last shot they received in the series. [Osan AB]
This is a straight up lie that cannot be explained away. However, Key’s lie is even greater because the military was not issuing anthrax injections at the time he claims he received 8 anthrax shots.
1998 — Defense Department starts a program of inoculating troops with the anthrax vaccine.
June 2001 — Inoculating troops temporarily suspended because of a lack of anthrax vaccine when the manufacturer, BioPort, changed its manufacturing process without approval by the Food and Drug Administration.
June 2002 — Defense Department resumes inoculating troops after FDA approves vaccine and manufacturing process, lifting the temporary suspension from a year earlier. [Stars & Stripes]
Key says the injections took place prior to him signing his Army contract on April 13, 2002. However, in June, 2001 the Pentagon stopped issuing anthrax shots and did not start issuing them again until June, 2002, which is after the time that Key said he was given 8 anthrax shots. Key is a total liar on this claim.
Fact #6: Basic Training is not 17 Weeks Long
On page 47 Joshua Key claims that he was not able to call his family for 17 weeks. Phone calls during basic training are a privledge but generally soldiers can call their families more then once during basic training. However, in Key’s case he must of went to some super special long boot camp because I have never heard of a 17 week long basic training. In fact basic training at Ft. Leonard Wood where Key received his training is only 9 weeks long.
In the book he also states that drill sergeants regularly cursed at him and told him that Muslims were terrorists and sand niggers. They also recruited Key to regularly beat other recruits. By regulation drill sergeants are not allowed to curse at recruits, make derogatory statements, or beat other recruits. Considering all of Key’s other lies in the book I find these claims unlikely.
Fact #7: Key Changes Story on Wanting to Fight in Iraq
In the book on page 57 Key says:
As I’ve stated, I thought it was better for me to help stomp out terrorism and defend America then to leave the job to my own children.
However, in this socialist newsletter Key writes he had a different reason for going to fight in Iraq:
I called Brandi: “I’ve been fooled!” After several months of training I was re-assigned to Fort Carson, Colorado, to the 43rd Company of Combat Engineers. Brandi came to live on the base with the kids. And, in the fall of 2002, the rumurs about Baghdad began. Everything was done from the perspective of fighting in the desert, against Iraqi troops. The war games became more intense. Whole regiments were kept on stand-by. Be ready to leave from one day to the next, we were told. And myself, I kept on believing, clinging to their promises. I couldn’t believe they’d lie to me. I wanted to put the question to an officer, but I was made to understand that I should keep quiet if I didn’t want my family to suffer. I was trapped.
So in his book he was more then happy to go fight Saddam and then in an interview he only went to combat because he was trapped and didn’t want his family to suffer. So which is it?
Fact #8: Highly Unlikely Key was Limited to One MRE and One Liter of Water a Day in Kuwait
On page 59 Key claims that his unit was given only one MRE and one liter of water a day while in Kuwait. This sounds highly bogus because when I was in Kuwait we had more food and water then we needed because of the contractors that cooked up food for all the servicemembers in these huge circus tents. In fact we regularly had steak and lobster in Kuwait. In Kuwait the only time we ate MRE’s is if we had to go out to the range. If you didn’t watch yourself you could put on wait while in Kuwait.
Key also claims he had to steal water from other units so his unit would have water to drink. So even if Key’s story is true he admits to being a thief which according to the book isn’t the first time he admits to being a thief because regularly in the book he describes stealing money and jewelery from the Iraqis.
Fact #9: Highly Unlikely that Under 24 Hours After Being in Iraq Key’s Unit Was Conducting Raids
On page 69 Key claims that under 24 hours after being in Iraq his unit was conducting raids, bashing in civilians, and arresting people for no reason. Think about this his unit used flat bed trucks to go from Kuwait all the way to Ramadi which would take many hours to complete such a convoy and then download all their equipment. So after doing such a long movement the first thing the unit would do is go raid houses?!!! It doesn’t make any sense at all considering they hadn’t even set up a unit area yet.
He also claims that every night they would raid up to four houses and arrest all men over five feet tall. I don’t know of any company sized element in Iraq that would raid up to four houses every night, especially an Engineer unit. Once again it sounds like utter BS
Fact #10: There is no M-16 Grenade Launcher
On page 131 Key claims a member of his unit tried to commit suicide with an M-16 Grenade launcher which there is no such thing. There is an M203 grenade launcher however.
Key said that the soldier shot himself in the ankle with a grenade that didn’t go off. Anyone with basic training on an M203 knows that a grenade from the M203 has an arming distance. Why would a soldier try to kill himself with a grenade he knows cannot go off?
Fact #11: You Cannot Take Half Pay for Three or Six Months
On page 133 of his book, Key claims a soldier was docked half his pay for three months for asking a visiting colonel a question about why he did not have Interceptor body armor. First of all any JAG would have an easy time defending any soldier given non-judicial punishment for simply asking a question. Secondly Key’s commanding officer cannot legally give such a punishment.
Here is what company commanders are authorized to give as non-judicial punishment otherwise known as an Article 15:
- Restriction to specific limits (normally work, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 14 days
- Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 14 days
- Restriction with extra duties for not more than 14 days
- Correctional Custody for not more than 7 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
- Forfeiture of 7 days pay
- Reduction by one grade, if original rank in promotion authority of imposing officer. Not imposable on E-6 or above for USMC, or E-7 or above for other services
- Confinement on diminished rations for not more than 3 days (USN and USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
- Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal.
Here is the punishment the battalion commander can hand out under a Article 15 offense:
- Restriction to specific limits (normally place of duty, barracks, place of worship, mess hall, and medical facilities) for not more than 60 days
- Extra duties, including fatigue or other duties, for not more than 45 days
- Restriction with extra duties for not more than 45 days
- Correctional Custody for not more than 30 days (only if accused is in the grades E-3 and below)
- Forfeiture of one half of base pay for two months
- Reduction by one (NCO below E-6 in USMC or E-7 otherwise) or more (sub-NCO) grades.
- Confinement on diminished rations for not more than 3 days (USN and USMC E-3 and below only, and only when embarked on a vessel)
- Admonition or reprimand, either written or verbal.
No where in there does it say a soldier can lose half his pay for 3 months. Additionally Key cannot even keep his lies straight because in this Canadian radio interview Key says this soldier lost half his pay for 6 months! So which lie is it?
It is pretty hard to keep all your lies straight, huh Joshua Key?
Fact #12: You Cannot Get an Article 15 for Crying
On page 148 Key claims an officer from another unit threatened to tell his unit officers that he saw him crying which would lead to him getting an Article 15 and loss of pay. He evens says the officer gave him a written reprimand. I have never seen an officer in another unit give a written reprimand to a solider he doesn’t know in an entirely different unit. It makes no sense because that officer is not his chain of command thus rendering anything he wrote utterly pointless because he has no UCMJ authority. Plus once again a JAG lawyer would have a field day defending any soldier given an Article 15 for crying. Finally Key if received a written reprimand, where is it? What is the guys name because he doesn’t disclose it in the book.
Fact #13: Avengers Do Not Have Two .50 Cals on Them
On page 169 Key makes the claim that an anti-aircraft humvee, which is an air defense artillery Avenger, used its two mounted .50 cals to kill some civilian crossing into Iraq from Syria by firing hundreds of round at him.
First of all an Avenger only has one mounted .50 cal which is mounted below one of its two stinger missile pods which you can see above. The .50 cal only holds 200-250 rounds and could not have possibly fired the “hundreds” of rounds that Key claims.
Fact #14: Key Provides No Evidence to Support his Massacre Claims
At various points in the book Key makes claims about US soldier committing massacres such as on page 81-82 he claims in Fallujah that members of the 82nd Airborne massacred about a dozen civilians for no reason. He claims on page 106 that members of the Florida National Guard were playing a “twisted game of soccer” with the heads of civilians that they had beheaded.
However, in this video interview of Key, the claim is made that they were the heads of decapitated Iraqi soldiers while in the book they were the heads of civilians that were decapitated by M-16 fire from US soldiers:
Once again it is hard to keep all the lies straight I guess.
He also makes multiple claims about randomly shooting cars while on patrol and makes the outrageous claim that one one of his sergeants used a .50 cal to ignite a trail of gasoline on the road from a car they had shot at and the spark of the .50 cal round ignited the trail of gasoline which caught up to the car and blew up its fuel tank. I want to see Mythbusters try and prove this Hollywood Rambo story.
He even says they used captured Mercedes to go and conduct raids with. When I was in Iraq the only servicemembers I saw conducting operations in civilian vehicles was US Army Special Forces soldiers. Not once did I see regular Army soldiers regularly conducting raids using civilian vehicles like Key claims. How many of these vehicle would you need to put a platoon of engineers in with all their equipment to conduct a raid? You would need a huge convoy of civilian vehicles not to mention the extra exposure to IED’s in an unarmored civilian vehicle. I do not find this claim credible.
The one common thread in all of these incredible stories is that he provides no proof. How come no one is his unit has come forward to support his claims? On his webpage and on his Wikipedia page there are no attributions from anyone that served with Key that can verify all his stories. We are left to take Joshua Key’s word that all these wild stories happened as claimed. However, as I have already shown Joshua Key is a proven liar.
Conclusion
Key has plenty of other stories in the book to include female lieutenants that would go on the prowl asking privates for sex to entrap them and give them punishment, medics not helping wounded Iraqi civilians, soldiers raping Iraqi women left and right, Abu Graib style abuse of prisoners, and get this even soldeers trying to bring ears back with them to the US. He even says one guy tried to bring a severed arm back with them. When he went AWOL his stories of government agents stalking him was really quite comical considering the Army allows civilian law enforcement to turn in deserters when they are picked up for routine traffic stops. I wonder if he saw black helicopters looking for him as well?
The bottom line is that any leftist talking point you can think of, Key includes it in his book in order to reinforce all the left wing stereotypes about the military. So there are plenty of references to My Lai, poverty draft, killing kids, etc, etc. This book is nothing but pure propaganda. For those of us who have served in Iraq, Key’s claims are entirely unbelievable and actually quite comical. If what Key claims is true and he is facing deportation from Canada, then why isn’t he lining up members of his prior unit to testify in his defense?
I think everyone gets the point by now that Joshua Key is a liar and an absolute disgrace not that people on the far left care. Key is simply a tool for these people to bash the US military with and Key is more then willing to play long because the livelihood of his family in Canada is dependent on him telling his tall tales. That is why you have all these journalists and radio hosts giving him softball interviews in order to tell his lies.
Key is also part of the leftist attempt to create a perception of discontent within the ranks like the leftist plants from Amnesty International tried to create before the 2006 Congressional elections. This group just happened to be backed with a media campaign led by the biggest liberal public relations firm, Fenton Communications. (You need to read my prior postings here and here to understand what I’m talking about.)
These people are just as disgraceful as Key for spreading blatant propaganda. I am willing to bet that many people on the far left believe that even if Key and his cohorts are lying, the ends justifies the means. That is why despite all the evidence to the contrary these people will not denounce liars like Joshua Key. That is why you don’t see anyone in the media trying to locate members of Key’s former unit to interview them to corroborate his stories. How hard could arranging such an interview be?
The US government needs to bring Key back from Canada and court martial him. I want Key to try and explain the various lies I have uncovered. Could you imagine what lies an investigator interviewing all the members of his unit could uncover much less what I have disclosed? He should be deported and be given a fair trial where we can all see if his lies stand up in court. After seeing what I already have uncovered about Key is it any wonder he has no interest in seeing if his claims would hold up in a court martial and instead prefers to hide in Canada? Canadians deserve better then to have frauds like Key living in their country. Hopefully the Canadian courts do the right thing and deport Key back to the US where he would have to take responsibility for substantiating all the tall tales he has told.
Hows that for some “controversy”?
4:54 am on February 9th, 2009 1
I am reminded of something my grandmother always told me: “Never try to teach a pig to sing; it only wastes your time and annoys the pig.” I think your excellent, exhaustive analysis is going to be wasted on the hordes of tin-foil wearing lunatics who will undoubtedly be drawn to refute you.
I have to say however, I did have one dumb-ass troop when I was a battery commander who shot himself in the foot with his M203; he had the TP-T round and it damn-near broke his foot.
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February 9th, 2009 at 8:07 am
I’m not worried about the tin-foil hat crowd,
I totally expect the tin-foil hat crowd will continue to try and change the subject and ignore the fact their war hero Joshua Key is a liar.
I am more concerned about average people just doing an Internet search on Key to see if his story is true. Currently the search terms Joshua Key + liar the ROK Drop tops the Google search listings. The ROK Drop as well as other blogs that linked to my posting rank high on Google for the search terms Joshua Key as well as Joshua Key + fraud.
These are the people I want to read the post because when they do they will clearly see according to the facts I laid out Key has lied on multiple occassions which severely compromises the integrity of all his other wild stories.
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6:38 am on February 9th, 2009 2
This is one of the best fiskings I’ve ever read. Nice sleuth work to expose this liar.
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February 9th, 2009 at 8:01 am
It actually wasn’t all that hard to refute this guy because I was astonished at how they didn’t even try to hide their lies in this book. This is how sure they were the media wouldn’t bother doing any fact checking on them.
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8:34 am on February 9th, 2009 3
That guys a friggin piece of work. Let him stay in Canada, maybe take some of his communist hippey friends with him.
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March 15th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
You Americans are so cute. Still scared of the communists?
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January 25th, 2010 at 5:46 am
While GI Korea’s research is surpprisingly good and far more than just a rant at people who criticise the war, I do find his conspiracy-theory-like idea of “leftists” (whatever that means) conjuring up the whole thing rather laughable.
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10:05 am on February 9th, 2009 4
Sounds like there was NO checking of anything this Joshua wrote down.
If any of this “abuse” ever took place, then why didn’t he report it? Under the UCMJ, if you see or hear of ANY abuse of civilians, you must report it. Failure to do so is a violation of the UCMJ.
Using a M-203 to shoot ones foot off is the most bone headed move I’ve ever heard of. One is the arming distance, and two is the fact that a 203 round is a grenade with a 5 meter killing radius. Anybody near the unfortunate idiot would likely be either killed or severally injured IF one could get the round to explode.
Nice report there GI.
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1:58 pm on February 9th, 2009 5
“Key also claims he had to steal water from other units so his unit would have water to drink”
So, what would be the punishment under the UCMJ for this crime, to which he has already confessed?
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February 9th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
There was many UCMJ offenses that Key committed that he readily admitted to in his book and stealing water is the most minor one. This guy admits to regularly beating civilians, abusing prisoners, and stealing money and jewelery from houses he raided.
Just the more reason to have him court martialed.
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7:49 pm on February 9th, 2009 6
Good article, my only quirp is that your not quite correct on the Article 15 punishments.
There are three types of Art 15’s,
Summarized (O3 or commissioned OIC)
Restriction / Extra Duty (14 days), basically a slap on the wrist, really fast and easy to do.
Company (O3 or commissioned OIC)
Same as above but also includes,
Forfeiture of 7 days pay
Correctional Custody for 7 days (only for E3 or below)
Reduction of one grade if the Office is the promotion authority. This is typically for E-4 and below. A Company Art 15 can NEVER take stripes from a SGT (E5) or SSG (E6).
Field (O4 or other field grade officer)
Same as all above but also,
Restriction (60 days) / Extra Duty (45 days)
Forfeiture of one half of base pay for two months
Correctional Custody for 30 days (only for E3 and below)
Reduction of one grade from E5 or E6, Reduction to E1 from grades E4 and below.
In all case’s there is the option for appeals to the next higher authority, as well as demanding a trial by courts martial. Which really blows holes in his story, as anyone facing a bogus Art 15 hearing could easily demand a trail by courts martial and if the original Art 15 wasn’t strong it won’t even go to court.
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8:42 pm on February 9th, 2009 7
I know one isn’t supposed to judge a book by its cover but sometimes the cover contains valuable information.
Joshua Key looks like a dirtbag; is a dirtbag.
Good job, GI.
Unfortunately, Joshua Key’s supporters’ knowledge of the military is based off of Hollywood movies and liberal misinformation.
Facts such as the number of .50 cals on Avengers or the arming range of M406 rounds are neither understood nor cared to be understood if they conflict with any message which supports the Agenda.
Why has the Army not sent a representative to Canada to refute each point of Joshua’s testimony and assist the Canadian government in rapidly understanding that his claim is based on obvious lies and has no validity?
Today’s Army sure seems to have time, money and manpower to stop drinking and womanizing.
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February 9th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
The army could send me on TDY to Canada and I would happily refute everything Key has to say.
Personally I think the big Army doesn’t want to make martyrs out of these deserters and turning their deportation hearings into media spectacles. I think the damage of them spreading their lies is even worse then the chance of the possible media spectacle.
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9:48 pm on February 9th, 2009 8
Hey..
I find the fact that this man is or was held up in Canada as a deserter.. they should bring back capital punishment for desertion…
During Vietnam the country was over run with draft dodgers.. The US got the better deal though.. 50 thousand plus Canadians served in The US armed services during Vietnam.. One CMH winner..
AKO isn’t always accurate.. I had issues with educational documentation as Im Canadian and I served in the US army and I now live and work in Korea..I submitted my paperwork.. and I ended up in a lot of shit..The Korean gov. tried to confirm that the DD.214 that I had wasn’t a forgery.. they couldn’t find me on AKO.. but, the issue was easily resolved.I Just wrote an email to a Sgt/US army to tell him his name isnt on AKO.. his name is Van Houten.. but.. sometimes yer gig in the military prevents people from getting their hands on your information..
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12:42 pm on February 12th, 2009 9
Ok the only thing i have to say is yes key is s shitbag however. As far as the 17 week basic i think that may be close to accurate cause i know that combat engineers basic and AIT are combined just inlike infantry school i just dont know if its 17 weeks. Also i do know that many units do raids within their first 24 hours of being in country just rare though and varies on the unit and where in Iraq you are. Also kuwait is a RnR area you get three hot meals a day at a decent chow hall. But one thing i can say is true is that recruiters will lie, granted my recruiter knew i was getting inside infor from my best friend who recently graduated basic and all that so he couldn’t BS me that much. now when i was in basic there were a lot of recruits that thought they werent going to deploy cause of this and that and thought that being in their MOS they would get boodygaurds so recruiters have pulled shady shit. Also in basic drill sergeants do yell and curse at you say some duragatory things but that is part of how to make a soldier. they didnt beat us or things of that nature but yelling and cursing was something they did. it is an army of soldiers not pansies they have to yell and make you men. also it is believable some idiot would try to shoot himself with an M203 cause the army has all sorts of people and the vast majority are really retarded.
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October 19th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Yes, Joshua did attend OSUT (One Stop Unit Training) at Fort Leonard Wood. I was in his company (E Co., we were in different platoons) and graduated with him, and the length of training was 13 weeks. I don’t recall if Josh remained at FLW after graduation to attend the B-6 ASI (additional skill identifier) course that a small group, including myself, was selected/volunteered for. If he did, that would have added an additional 2 weeks to his stay, bringing the total to 15 weeks.
Anyway, I can state, from personal experience, that Joshua Key’s claims about Basic are ridiculous lies. We were certainly never taught that all Muslims were terrorists, and neither were we trained to be terrorists, as he has stated. He also claimed that he participated in the beating of a fellow recruit with soap wrapped in a towel/pillow-case (like in the movie Full Metal Jacket). Such an incident did occur while we were in Basic, but it happened in the barracks next to ours (D Co.). The victim had his ribs broken, the attackers were all severely punished, and (instead of being encouraged to do the same as Key claims) we received a long lecture from the Drill Sergeants about how such actions would not be tolerated.
We were not in the same unit after graduation, but we were assigned to Fort Carson at approximately the same time, deployed to Iraq at the same time as well (I was with the 4th Engineer Bn., 3rd BCT, 4th ID), and even went on mid-tour leave around the same time (the difference is, I actually returned to Iraq). And his claims regarding his service in Iraq sound equally ridiculous. It amazes me how he can’t even get simple facts (easily found on Google) correct. For instance, on his website, he claims that a M249 SAW can fire 2,000 rounds per minute!!! Not only did he and I receive training on the M249 in BCT, after which he should know that 2,000 rounds per minute is an insane exaggeration, but anyone can easily do a Google search to find the correct rate of fire for the M249.
While I’d like to see Mr. Key face the consequences of his cowardly actions, I’d be equally content to see Canada keep him. We don’t need his type in the U.S.
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3:41 am on February 13th, 2009 10
Who the hell cares
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9:03 pm on February 14th, 2009 11
Great job exposing all the lies of Joshua Key. I had a recent assignment, which was to read his claims and stories and then judge if Canada should accept his claim. After reading a short interview of his and a few excerpts, I felt as if all he did in Iraq was hide and watch war films. He was incredibly cliche and his claims were outrageous.
After handing in the assignment, I went to see if anyone else found him a fraud and your posts blew me away. You confirmed your claims with evidence, which is already better than Joshua, who instead, writes a book about his tale .. which really is just a tale.
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February 15th, 2009 at 7:26 am
I am glad I could be of help and just think this guy is a proven liar without even digging deep into his story yet. An investigator in Canada that interviews members of his unit to compare what he says to what they say happened should really get to the bottom of this.
The fact that Canada after all this time hasn’t done this yet means he is being kept over there for political reasons and not for the veracity of his story.
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February 15th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Key being kept in Canada for political reasons?
With regard to the Canadian’s gov’t – I think in the grand scheme of things – Joshua Key is about as important as a pimple on an elephant’s ass. And that’s the reason the Canadian gov’t (and US gov’t for that matter) haven’t pursued this issue with more zeal.
He’s important to some fringe anti-war groups in Canada and the US – and also to people in the US military who feel betrayed by people like him. But beyond that – I don’t think anyone really gives a rat’s ass about him.
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February 15th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
The anti-war groups are the ones financing him to keep him up there. Obviously no one in the Canadian government is putting up much of an effort to deport him because they don’t want to upset the anti-war groups. So the status quo of him continuing to spread his lies continues.
10:50 pm on February 15th, 2009 12
I feel sorry for Joshua Key.
Imagine knowing the rest of your life will be spent in an unheated cell with 33 million cellmates insisting they invented the light bulb.
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12:01 am on March 18th, 2009 13
I can tell you first hand that this article has more truth then what Josh would have you believe. He is a liar, his book is completely false and his claims are completely made up. There is a reason he went AWOL and it had nothing to do with what he saw or his beliefs. I know this personally and Canada can keep him
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5:59 pm on May 18th, 2009 14
I read a portion of the book cited. I find it interesting that a PFC is termed a Pte First Class, as in the English/Canadian system. Did this Key feller learn anything? Anything at all?
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12:25 pm on May 22nd, 2009 15
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/05/12/national/main5008643.shtml
U.S. troops forced to steal water becuase they were not given enough.
This is in response to fact #8.
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May 22nd, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Actually that link proves nothing. It is well known that at various times in Iraq water had to be rationed. There was a point during the war that my unit was rationed to 2 liters of water a day due to combat conditions.
Key said he was rationed to one liter of water of day in Kuwait. Big difference. Key is still liar.
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1:46 am on July 10th, 2009 16
Hey, ROK! Regarding this:
Key also claims on page 44 that the recruiting building he was in had a poster that said that “Desertion in the time of war means death by firing squad” and that he had to sign a document saying he understood that poster. This sounds like utter BS to me because I have never seen such a poster and I signed no such document when I joined the Army and I know of no one else who had as well. (snip) Has anyone else seen such a poster and document?
Technically: before signing the contract (something I did in 07), they do repeatedly tell you that Desertion is a crime and that it is punishable by *up to* Death. So, its wordplay, and probably a bit of yarn-weaving or barracks lawyers.
Honestly, while it makes me sad that this man obviously is misguided and ought to be in jail, its just like every other internet war: nearly pointless.
Also: regarding WMDs in Iraq:
I have a book here in my hand that says (roughly, as I don’t have it in front of me) that during the political build-up to OIF-I, Saddam Hussein moved all of his WMDs to Syria. I’ve also heard from numerous members of the military who were serving over in Iraq early on about similar stories regarding the placement of said weapons into Syria. So, just like in 1990/91 when Saddam sent his air force into Iran, yet again he does the same with his WMD.
Citation:
Hearn, Chester G. “Carriers in Combat: The Air War at Sea.” Stackpole Books. July 2007.
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July 10th, 2009 at 6:55 am
During the FBI interrogations of Saddam he told them that he in fact did destroy the WMD but wanted the world to still think he had them. This was not to deter a US attack because he thought the US was a paper tiger that would just use limited bombing on him, but instead to deter Iran. I think this explanation makes sense.
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July 10th, 2009 at 9:31 am
I can’t put stock in what he told the US. Maybe true, maybe not.
But, he’d have a motivation to lie just to stick his tongue out at the US by saying he was “innocent” all along.
He’d also have a motivation to keep heat off Syria.
But it’s a mute point anyway even if Syria has them unless they openly claim they do or use them…
But — I think if we look at recent news from North Korea, we can guess another reason Saddam wanted to at least pretend he still had the WMDs: not just to keep Iran at bay but keep potential rivals within Iraq from trying to dethrone him as well. He did use them in the past to quell domestic opposition. And we recently saw the regime in NK put out the word to North Koreans that it would use WMDs against any enemy – foreign or domestic – in the future (like when Jong-Il dies and his son moves into the top spot).
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2:57 am on July 10th, 2009 17
I don’t think such internet battles are pointless though it is a reasonable point of view to have:
I disagree because this isn’t going on just in cyberspace —
the man got a book published and is played up out in the real world by all kinds of groups who seek ways in which to promote stories such as his or any other that demean the US military and government.
At least in this era, cyberspace gives others a chance to speak out against the lies and attempt to set the record straight.
So the point turns out to be that the other side can speak out and be heard…..and that’s an important point…
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July 10th, 2009 at 7:01 am
I agree that posting this info on the Internet is useful because anyone who does a Google search for Joshua Key will see this posting pop up on the front page right next to his Wikipedia entry and official website.
This allows people to get both sides of the story in regards to the BS he is putting out.
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5:05 am on July 10th, 2009 18
Joshua Key has dishonored himself and his country. His lies need to be exposed.
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12:16 am on August 4th, 2009 19
Josh is a puppet and being used by others to promote anti-us thoughts. It is an outrage. his claims are not true for a number of reasons, both mentioned and not mentioned on this site. I am curious as to where his wife is now and if she is sticking by him. she is just as accountable and should also be considered a traitor
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August 22nd, 2009 at 7:56 am
Josh and Brandi have separated and she is in New Mexico with another man. Josh has a new girlfried and she is pregnant. He doesn’t see his other children, nor helps support them. He is a user and a loser.
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12:34 pm on August 26th, 2009 20
If you’re writing this in order to convince people who aren’t already nationalistic American right-wingers, you’ve done a rather poor job. I’d lose the rants about hippies, the blather about “the usual tactic of many people of the far left,” the bizarre accusations against Amnesty International, and so forth. When one intends to build a case that somebody else is a political extremist who lets ideology and conspiracy theories cloud his facts, it’s hardly advantageous to come off as politically extreme, ideological conspiracy theorist oneself.
What’s more, you’ve padded out your list with some fairly silly details. For example, in your fact #13, you castigate Key for claiming that “hundreds of rounds” were fired from a weapon that holds “200-250 rounds.” But “200-250″ is indeed “hundreds.” And it’s completely logical and natural that someone might hear 250 shots fired, during a highly stressful and traumatic situation, and remember it as 500 or even 1,000 rounds. To this day, people who heard the JFK assassination (3 shots) remember hearing 5, 7, or even dozens of gunshots. Police officers have unmistakeably seen a suspect reach for a gun, opened fire and killed him, and then found no gun. I could go on quite extensively in this vein, but I think you get the idea.
This being said, I think that if one goes over your post, removing the ad-homs, conspiracy theories, and exaggerations, one can extract a reasonably strong case that Josh Key’s testimony is unreliable. He seems to conflate stories he’s heard or seen (cow tipping, flaming gasoline trails) with things that he has personally experienced. His stories seem to get more dramatic each time they’re re-told. He seems to confuse details.
However, this is not “fraud” or “lying.” It’s not even evidence of fraud or lying. Every human brain is susceptible to such errors, as anyone with a basic understanding of memory can testify.
I don’t know whether Josh Key is a fraud and liar, and neither do you. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s telling things the way he honestly remembers them, but that his recollections can’t be trusted.
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August 26th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Even if there was even a tiny outside chance that many of those things could have occurred, I would be willing to give Key the benefit of a doubt. But in many of his examples – he says things that simply NEVER happen in the US Army. I’m not saying they rarely happen – they NEVER happen.
That’s not a case of conflating a story – that’s either flat out lying or possibly he’s a pathological liar.
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August 27th, 2009 at 7:38 am
Unfortunately, I am related to Josh and yes he is a liar. He feelings about the war had nothing to do with his deserting. He will suck the life and money from sympathitic Canadians just like he has from his family. Eventually, they will tire of supporting him just like we have.
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1:11 am on September 6th, 2009 21
Just read the book. I too round a number of “questionable” statements (such as a head going up like a mushroom from an M16 round or rounds?). Thus I did a google search and here I am. I did enough time in the Canadian military to know certain BS when I see it, but many other portions rang true based on my own experience. So, without living Mr. Key’s life – I have to say not all the statements made can be fully discredited based on his (or his writers) embellishments.
I agree with Evan’s last statement, and would add the Key’s perception is just one person’s opinion / story – and there are many….some more accurate than others, some from competing perspectives, but all worth knowing.
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9:57 pm on January 5th, 2010 22
You seem to be refuting some small things about his book when to me the book was explaining what happened in Iraq and why this led him to desert.
He was carefull to not talk about things that he himself had not personally seen however you seem to be repeatedely refuting him by stating that “…never happened to me” or “I have never seen…”.
It is obvious to me that your experiences were different to his so constantly reflecting on your experiences doesn’t go very far in refuting his book.
In the end i didn’t mind the Book as although it is by no means the best study of conflict or occupation i don’t think it was meant as such iether. But then again as you said you had made up your mind before you even read the book.
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8:13 am on January 22nd, 2010 23
He begins his book by retelling stories of how he broke the law. He admits to fraudulently enlisting in the Army. He was briefed at least 5 seperate times to disclose any legal, moral, or medical issues or be subject to federal charges. He goes on to admit to numerous UCMJ violations and a complete disregard for the Rules of Engagement and Escalation of Force. He was briefed at least a dozen times on each of these and the right/obligation to disobey an unlawful order and report it to the next higher in his chain of command. He was briefed on his commander’s open door policies and the use of the Inspector General. He had dozens of alternatives to desertion. He chose to throw down his weapon and run. He should be punished and each of his allegations should be investigated and, if found untrue, he should be charged again with these false accusations. There are far more soldiers with integrity serving in the Army than there are lowlifes like this one.
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