Now onto the curfew and what I have against it. For five years I was a soldier in the ROK, eventually ETSing as a SSG (and now a dirty nasty evil greedy untrustworthy contractor). This wasn't my first duty station, this isn't the only place in the world the military has bases. Japan, Germany, Italy, Belgium all have military bases. NONE has a "curfew". There is nothing inherently different from this place then any other. You want up, do PT, get showered/clean, goto work/duty/training, then go home. Go out with friends on weekends, usually drinking and other things that YOUNG people across the world do. The ONLY difference is here, the media is your enemy and always looking for a way to sensationalize things, not to mention the former ROK president was very anti-American.

Most of the time I went out "down range" it wasn't with fellow soldiers, but the KATUSA's or my Korean friends. And I will tell you right now, Korean males from the age of 20 to 30 drink like college kids, and drink more then soldiers. They get into fights more then soldiers, they "grab ass" with the K-gals more then soldiers do. The only difference is their not as aggressive towards each other.

This is why I think the curfew is straight bull. Its a control measure, its there to appease the political powers that be and to get soldiers away from Koreans during the hours their most likely to get in trouble. Its segregation, keeping young American citizens from young Korean citizens during the hours where the least amount of inhibitions are present. And its only used here to prevent the media from fueling things and making embarrassing stories.

We have DUI's in the rest of the world, we have fights, rapes, murder, assaults, and everything else under the sun. We deal with it elsewhere using the judicial system and UCMJ. That should apply here, and be damned if the media makes a hoopla. That is a discussion from the US Government to the Korean Government saying "get your media to lay off or we're out of here, we will not be treated this way". And trust me it would stop ASAP.

It seems we are all in agreement then. The curfew or lack of a curfew is not the problem.

The driving policy IS the problem. The two are not the same. So stop the curfew, and fix the driving policy.

See how easy that was.

I think on the last group there was a SPC driving without a license and that's part of the point. The driving privilege change didn't put a lot more junior enlisted free wheeling on the roads. They still don't automatically have permission to drive unless they can show a need; i.e. they are command sponsored, living off base with family. Then not likely to be out partying all night and attempting to drive home.

So for the most part, I don't see the junior enlisted as a serious part of the problem.

I don't like the idea of curfews and non-driving privileges for people whose basic job description is to be prepared to fight and die for Korea at a moment's notice — unless the curfew or other restrictions are directly related to the force readiness that is needed.

However, with the DUIs – I can agree with broad restrictions being applied and loosened depending on troop behavior – meaning – having a policy that is a privilege that can be revoked in mass if too many DUIs start to happen.

Why? Because driving in Korea is not a necessity at all.

Unlike in the States, you have cheap public transportation and other options everywhere in Korea. Even small towns get taxi traffic. You don't need your own car in Korea at all – and given how Korean drivers drive, I was always happy I didn't have to.

Pisses me off. So glad I'm retired with those good memories of korea and 8th army.

Not what it has become.

If ya really want to see some article 15 action, check out the NCO clubs on any base, (stanley, humphreys) AFTER curfew. The same number of people that were located in ten plus bars, are now funneled into ONE. Oh, and the number of females have been decreased hugely.

Fights that would not have happened, now do. But what the hell, it's on base and we are only beating on our own personel. No nasty news reports to worry about there. That IS the number one concern. Not the Soldiers.

No curfew at Hood, or Campbell, or Iraq. What makes korea different?

American Soldiers are at all locations. Hell the same Soldiers!

They have cars and can drink at hood and campbell. No curfew.

They leave their family and are ordered to korea, and get slapped with a curfew?

Something is wrong in korea, and it isn't the Soldiers.

Glad I was there in the 80s and 90s. It was fun and a Soldier could stand or fall as he chose. Not be treated as a problem waiting for a location. and oh please, let the location be the NCO club on base. PLEASE!

The provost martial office has access to all the incidents that happened with times after curfew. The mandatory training would not be happening if only curfew violations were happening. From what I am hearing there has been an increase in minor criminal incidents in the ville that is driving the relook at the policy. Fortunately major incidents like rape have not increased.

I think people also need to realize the pressure USFK is under to prevent incidents due to the political repercussions. Back in the 80's and 90's you could get away with more stuff in regards to GI crime, not any more today. GI's involved in the most minor of incidents can make local news reports. The last really major crime was the grandma rape case that received huge play in the Korean media.

Could you imagine what the political repercussions would be if a USFK drunk driver ran over two kids walking across the street? That is why I have been hot on this DUI issue.

Ironically, one of the biggest issues with the curfew is that it creates this crime category in itself.

Another 'crime' that USFK has created was when they equated bar fining with prostitution. It reminded me of the military fraternization crack downs in the '90s. If an enlisted was married to an officer there was a good bet there was some fraternization. How they got from there to here, no one could say for sure, but it generated an environment of rumour and suspicion. How does the GI and his bar girlfriend get to spend so much quality time together to make the commitment to each other?

Anyway, even though bar fining has been equated to prostitution and pandering for prostitution had been elevated to a felony a few years ago, we are told it is still only punished by Article 15.

So, it's the article 15 data that will tell us what USFK is really concerned about.

But as suggested, what does a curfew have to do with any of it? Other than the curfew violations themselves, what does a curfew do? And in that case, the curfew is the source of the offence, it doesn't prevent it.

Here's a thought. What if the curfew is actually part of the problem. I have wondered about that for several years now. This is just from personal observation, but I think the police blotter records could support or refute it. It appeared to me that guys AND girls seemed to engage in the more aberrant behaviour in the last hour of two before curfew. It didn't matter when the curfew was; 3 AM, 1 AM, 10 PM. Maybe it's the pressure/need to beat-the-clock. People may have been drinking at pace for most of the evening, but they are doing their most intense drinking in that last hour. Add to that whatever frustrations they may have pent up from an evening of suggestive sexual encounters and nothing to show for it as the witching approached. I can see how that may lead to incidents.

So, if the problem is assaults; physical and sexual, is the curfew a solution or part of the problem.

Just a thought …