By I thought I’d turn this topic into a post after reading Johnny H’s comment concerning contracts in Korea.
A good many of the expats familiar with Korea who come to this blog know Korea from the military or military contractor side. It isn’t as heavily a TESOLer audience as at other places in the Korea expat blogsphere. So, maybe the experience with contracts in Korea is different for them than with others – I’m not sure. Maybe the comments section will fill that out…
Anyway — during the first year I was in Korea – in 96 or 97 – Gangwon/Kangwon Province had a meeting for every ESL instructor in the region. They had some speakers and whatnot. The memorable point came during the question and answer period.
This was in the early or middle phase of the big economic melt down in Korea and among the Asian Tiger Economies that influenced world markets. From listening to what many teachers were saying, and from talking with a few after the conference, it seems many people weren’t getting paid or were getting paid only a percentage of what their contract stated. —– This is all pretty standard stuff in the ESL industry in Korea that has too many bad hakwons — stuff that you’ve read before in the K-blogs.
What was perhaps different was what one TESOLer said: He gave a speech about how —- in Korean culture, contracts are not looked at the same as in Western culture. That contracts were more of a “work in progress” and that Koreans often alter the terms of the contracts on a mutually agreed upon fashion between worker and employer.
I thought he sounded nuts. I also thought some of the teachers who had been angrily explaining how they haven’t been getting paid much at all were going to skin him alive…
But, over the years after that, I heard the same thing from other sources.
I seem to remember reading some about it in the K-blogs here and there over the years from one or two of the expat lawyers who work in Korea.
You would think given how strong Korea’s unions can be that a signed contract would not be considered flexible, but apparently in Korean society it is – at least compared to how we think about it in the US.
In the ESL industry, it is like I mentioned in the response to Johnny’s comment: due to the length of time it takes to fully process paperwork to go to Korea from abroad, it isn’t too unusual for an TESOLer to find a better position and back out of a signed contract before coming over. It also isn’t too unusual to read someone at Dave’s ESL Cafe complaining that their school has dropped them all of a sudden despite having signed a contract.
For the expat, at least in the ESL industry, the point of no return is the Visa Issuance: Once the school has sent over the information necessary to get the Visa – and you’ve gone to the consulate and gotten the Visa stamped into your passport – the school owns you.
The only way you can legally get another job before that Visa expires is to get a release letter from the school that sponsored you. I knew a guy during the economic melt down in the 1990s whose boss owned several businesses he was embezzling from who ran away to China with his mistress shortly before the police tried to arrest him.
The teachers came to the school to find it locked up and the manager waiting to tell them the story and that he had no idea what was going to happen concerning the apartments the teachers were living at that were paid for by the school.
That teacher still had to get a release letter before Immigration would process a new Visa. The boss of the new school he found had to grease it with an official who accepted a fake letter.
I’m not sure what it is like for any military contractors who either work for or have contractual business dealings with Korean companies or contracts stemming from the Korean government. Maybe some will tell in the comments.
It’d be interested in hearing how or if it’s different from the TESOLers…
[update]
I’m still checking the Labor Laws on this, but over at Dave’s ESL Cafe, I read someone say that the law has changed in recent years in terms of an employee initiating canceling a contract: They said that under the current law, if an employee gives an employer an official 30 days (someone said 60) notice, at the end of the period, the employee was no longer under that contract and visa and could legally get another job.
They weren’t clear on what “official notice” meant. I believe they were talking about notifying the local labor board as well as the employer.
If that is the law now, and if I were put in an elementary school and decided I couldn’t accept that, I would follow that rule.
It is the sad reality. No mistake...
6:44 pm on August 1st, 2009 1
I've been working as a foreign lawyer in Korea since 1997. Honestly speaking, I would strongly advise anyone not already committed to living and working in Korea (i.e., having married a Korean who wants to continue to live here) who is considering coming here to teach English to THINK AGAIN. Not that everyone has a miserable time, you see, but enough do to merit the warning. If you're not already stuck with this culture through whichever accidents of fate in your life, don't make it your choice. Not when there's so much better in the world to choose from.
7:34 pm on August 1st, 2009 2
I was thinking about you in mentioning lawyers in Korea having spoken about differences in culture concerning contracts.
Can you comment on that here?
On the ESL industry — you know I've done it before and am familiar with the industry. I'd had to deal with the worst case before. I'm going into this with eyes fully opened.
But I'm looking forward to being back in Korea for an extended period and am willing to accept the possibility of landing in a bad place. I've had enough experience navigating through it – unlike the average TESOLer arriving at the airport. (I've also got the family in-law support to fall back on…)
11:07 pm on August 1st, 2009 3
if you give 60 days notice the school is suppose to give you a release letter which you take to the immigration office with your new school and your E@ is then switched over to your new school. Although it is not as easy as it sounds. If your old school is angry that you are leaving sometimes they will bribe you to receive the release letter. another option is to do a minute runner, return to Korea and get a new E2 with a new school. before this was not possible if you did it in the same year as your old E2 was still valid. But now that does not apply. My friend ran last month and returned this week getting a new E2 in Japan for her new school.
2:18 am on August 2nd, 2009 4
There are items popping up at Dave's ESL Cafe now about more people getting dumped by the SMOE and EPIK programs after having signed contracts and while waiting for the Visa clearance number to come through.
Apparently due to the weak global economy, many more people applied or resigned for the Korea TESOL public school positions, and the different programs overbooked significantly and now are informing people, some who already bought tickets over, that their contract has been voided.
Could be me — I'm waiting for my Visa number to take to the Consulate at this moment.
The veterans at Dave's — who really do give good advice to people regularly and make the ESL situation in Korea better than it was before such sites started up — are saying what I said in this post: the contract is not considered the same as we think of it in the US. Accepting the Visa is the big step, and even there, schools have been known to back out from time to time, because they know you are not in Korea and can't do anything about it…
6:13 am on August 2nd, 2009 5
Rental contracts are also not worth the paper they are written on. Better yet, I've had a Korean landlord create a new contract from thin air (without my signature) claiming IT was the original. I think I've seen it all. I've never taught English, and never will, but I agree with Mr. Carr. He is 100% spot on.
6:34 am on August 2nd, 2009 6
This is why my wife (Korean) and I are very hesitant about my taking any position that doesn't offer free housing: I don't want to run the risk of losing a few thousand dollars in key money. I know people don't get ripped off all the time, but we feel we don't have the finances to risk it…
12:12 am on August 3rd, 2009 7
USinKorea:
I saw your response to my reply on the previous post about whether to take a uni job or the SMOE job.
My question is this: If you are a trained educator, with a teaching license in the US, why not apply for a job with DODS, the dept. of defense schools here in Korea. You would be able to continue your profession with a high degree of salary and your rent would be paid for? My brother does it here in Korea. Why not you?
Cheers.
12:14 am on August 3rd, 2009 8
To Brendon Carr:
"Not when there’s so much better in the world to choose from."
Where, for example?
Cheers.
12:15 am on August 3rd, 2009 9
To Brendon Carr:
“Not when there’s so much better in the world to choose from.”
Where, for example?
Cheers.
[Reply]
2:58 am on August 3rd, 2009 10
Non-tenured teacher contracts in the US often have a provision stating that the contract could be nullified if the position does not receive funding in the budget.
3:17 am on August 3rd, 2009 11
I know the schools at Osan AB are looking for teachers. I have the principals contact info if you would like it. I would also look into Yongsan's schools.
8:17 am on August 3rd, 2009 12
Whenever I've checked on DOD teaching jobs in Korea, they were full. I assumed they were in high demand among the spouses of soldiers and an outsider wouldn't have much of a chance…
8:20 am on August 3rd, 2009 13
Tenure? Do you mean college positions?
I don't believe we have tenure for public school positions in Georgia. It is supposed to be more difficult to cut someone loose after their first year at a school, but you have to sign/renew a new contract each. I've been hearing from teachers in different counties about layoffs and people getting shifted around to different schools in an effort to avoid laying experienced people off…
8:25 am on August 3rd, 2009 14
Thanks…
My goal is to teach in Seoul. The further away a job gets from Seoul, the more problematic it becomes. I'm not desperate for a job – yet. I still want to work in Seoul or close enough to do some work with NK-related groups.
8:34 am on August 3rd, 2009 15
Well, it looks like SMOE is looking to back out on me and the contract:
The recruiter says it aint so, but he told me they now want an official Korean document letter from each of my previous schools (hakwons) in Korea to prove my teaching experience. It is tens years since I left the last school. That is many managers and a heck of a lot of teachers ago. The chance of my getting such official documentation, especially given the deadline, is nonexistent.
A couple of weeks ago, I sent them scans of my passport showing my old Visas. Each one had the name of the school scribbled in Korea by some immigration officers. After I sent that in, nothing more was mentioned about proof of employment – until now.
I have to think it likely has something to do with all that I'm hearing about how much the Korean government overbooked contracts this year. I read where the EPIK program (which supplies teachers throughout the country) dumped 100+ signed contracts onto SMOE (who handles Seoul's public schools).
EPIK is the large pool of schools. If they are dumping so many contracts onto Seoul, the smaller market, it is likely SMOE is now awash in signed contracts. I've been reading others coming out to say their contracts have just been dumped by them.
I am assuming that is what is in play with me.
Time will tell…
The university job also fizzled out when I learned they are not providing airfare or 12-month bonus money. They are trying to hire people to two separate 6-month contracts…
…and so goes the Korean ESL industry…
….fall back…regroup….start over….
8:38 am on August 3rd, 2009 16
Japan. Japan has long been the better market, and tougher one to get in, than ESL in Korea. The laws there offer foreign employees in the teaching industry more protection and flexibility in changing jobs. Japanese schools also do not have nearly the amount of people complaining about broken contracts and withheld pay.
10:03 am on August 3rd, 2009 17
No, I meant public schools. Tenure is common in districts in the northeast and midwest. Georgia and most other southern states do not have tenure in public schools. In its place is a continuing contract or some other type of contract with some job protection. The budget clause means the school would actually have to cut your position to justify breaking contract, very unlikely once the school year has started.
10:03 am on August 3rd, 2009 18
The elementary schools have the highest turnover of teachers in Yongsan. The highschool is very tough to crack into. With base closures in Europe alot of veteran DODs teachers are coming to Korea (as a last choice) or Japan. Anyhoo….good luck.
12:12 pm on August 3rd, 2009 19
there is a brand new highway from Osan to Seoul, cuts your travel time in half as no one is ever on it!
12:56 pm on August 3rd, 2009 20
Which highway are you using?
1:10 pm on August 3rd, 2009 21
Japan — along with China — also has the advantage of offering the English teacher a career path. In my work, I often meet foreign executives who come over from China or Japan to attend to one "regional" matter or another. I can't overstate how frequently I hear from a long-term expat executive from China or Japan that said person transitioned into his or her professional role in a multinational corporation after a stint of teaching English as a Second Language. This is virtually unheard-of in Korea — multinationals DO NOT hire former English teachers to work in their Korean operations, and there are very few long-term non-ethnic Korean expatriates anyway.
Whether this is due to racism on the part of the employer (perhaps fearing that their Korean employees won't work with a foreigner as a colleague rather than overlord), legal barriers erected by Korean Immigration to keep rank-and-file foreign employees out, language barriers, or whatever, it's been my clear experience. Korea is a dead-end place where an English teacher gets to work in a form of chattel slavery, then return to his or her home country to start over without any recognition of professional experience.
1:13 pm on August 3rd, 2009 22
Well, there's Japan, China, Hong Kong, Singapore (even Singapore!) and the rest of Southeast Asia, where life can be fairly pleasant even with not so much money. I think they may also study English as a Second Language in various countries in Europe, where professional salaries and social inclusion are also on offer.
1:18 pm on August 3rd, 2009 23
When I was stationed at Osan, it was reasonably close to Seoul — close enough to reach in one hour by car unless the traffic was unexpectedly bad. Granted, this was nearly 20 years ago…
3:04 pm on August 3rd, 2009 24
it is the new 171 highway. if you normally take the 1 (gyeongb.highway) from songtan you would turn right to get to the toll to enter the highway. to get to 171 DONT turn right but keep going straight, this will turn into highway 171 in about 2-3 miles. The highway goes through the mountains and is truly amazing! mostly because no one is on it!
http://koreabeat.com/?p=8583
8:46 pm on August 3rd, 2009 25
It is probably still the same, but when I checked on TESOL situations around the world in the mid-1990s, the Euro market was pretty much closed to Americans. They hired for British English. Since the growth in the European Unionization, that also kept the door shut for Americans.
Back in the mid-1990s, it was also that way in some of the non-East Asian Asian nations and in Africa and in some Middle Eastern nations.
The Middle East was also hard to crack because they paid so well they could set high qualifications.
With the MA, I could probably have a shot at "American schools" in South and Central American making OK money teaching mostly the children of the elites. That is a nice fantasy — but Korea is it for a variety of clear reasons…
8:51 pm on August 3rd, 2009 26
I'm with you up to the last part. I'd say it is true, but if your profession is teaching and TESOL, even the Korea experience helps on a resume — I'd guess except for certain urban areas with a large Korean population where school districts might be familiar with the TESOL industry in Korea. Here in Georgia, the Korean TESOL experience on the resume has helped, but only in the job hunt category…
…it doesn't lead to higher pay at a new job.
2:39 am on August 4th, 2009 27
Agreed that overseas teaching experience, especially in local schools, is worth almost nothing stateside. Experience in Korea or China and some fluency in either language are marketable only in certain areas. I was very lucky that I got hired when my present employer was begging for ESOL teachers; they gave me full credit for my K-12 international school experience and half-credit for my Korean university teaching experience. My previous employer, a college town school district, hired me because of my Korean language skills but would not recognize any of my overseas teaching experience in calculating my starting salary.
Even districts with diverse populations are always looking for Spanish-speaking teachers. A career ESOL teacher planning to work in K-12 schools after returning home would be much better off learning Spanish from a tutor or at a foreign language institute rather than developing Korean language skills that will atrophy after leaving the country.
12:44 am on August 23rd, 2009 28
Not many of the university positions offer flight money nor end of contract bonuses but the pay for the hours worked is the trade off.
Contracts are still a problem across the board for teachers regardless of the institution that you work for. The same troubles you hear about a kindy are also occurring at the S.K.Y. universities. Be it hours, pay, responsibilities.
Your safest bet would still be to come here and meet some of the staff before accepting a position (assuming you have the funds to get things in motion).
I'm sure this has been brought up before, but is there no way for you to get F2 status? It makes life here so much easier knowing your not under anyone's thumb (except you spouses that is
2:46 am on August 23rd, 2009 29
Yeah. We've covered the F-4. It's a no go. My wife won't be with me most of the first year as she keeps her job in the US. Not having a job in Korea, and not having a large chunk of cash in the bank, we can't go the F-series route. We checked at the Atlanta consulate.
Now that the SMOE job fell through at the last minute, I went ahead and got a ticket for the first week in September. I'd still rather do the search from the comfort of home and take my time, but time is pressing for my in-laws, so I'm taking the in-country route.
My current best guess as to how this will work out is:
I'll end up in a kids hakwon this year in Seoul, because my desire to do work with NK-related NGOs will trump my desire to avoid teaching kids by finding an adult hakwon (or a magical university job that appears this late in the season).
Next Spring or Summer, as we're deciding what to do after having spent a year helping comfort and support her mother, my wife will leave her job in the US and join me in Korea, because we'll decide to have a child during the next year, use the benefit of having her mother to play grandmother in country, and stay in Korea until the child becomes of school age.
With my wife in country and my having worked a year, I'll get the F-series spousal visa and then start making more money doing part-time gigs here and there (legally) and/or locating a good university position.
That isn't the plan right now, but I would bet a little that is how it turns out…
1:01 pm on August 23rd, 2009 30
"I’ll end up in a kids hakwon this year in Seoul"
I have to disagree on this. I think you will end up in the deep countryside. You will definitly work with kids, as they are the most desperate. Your co wokers will be very much like you.
By the way, working with kids is not a fast track to anything. Sorry to be forced to say the truth, but somebody has to.
5:19 pm on August 23rd, 2009 31
The next round of hirings for uni’s will be in late December so you could try for those, get a letter of release from the hogwon and then start teaching there in March.
You also have the option, assuming that the hogwon will agree, to work for them part-time and then add other employers to your E2 visa (then you can teach adult business classes on the side legally). You would need to get them to state that in the contract prior to getting the E2.
What’s the money aspect that you keep referring to in regards to the F visa? I don’t think our bank accounts were checked when I got my F2 but perhaps I should ask my husband.
4:53 pm on August 23rd, 2009 32
Yada yada yada….Yes, my life has no meaning. Please enlighten me as to your fast track and where it is leading you? Please help me understand how your wisdom conquered the world. I've searched life and the universe for a hero – all in vain. My tears grow deep as I stumble about in the darkness looking for a messiah. Please. Please. Please help me understand. Please show me the way. My life before has been meaningless. The life ahead a blur. My tears my only companion. Please, master, help this poor lost soul…..
5:01 pm on August 23rd, 2009 33
From what the consulate told us, your spouse needed to have a job or you had to have X amount of money in a bank account, can't remember how much, to prove ability to support the visa holder. This is similar to the US.
I'm trying to work out a deal with LORDOFE2 for a no-interest loan to sponsor my F-4 and buy a condo in Seoul. I hear he has Bill Gates-type money that his superior intellect and master planning of life has earned him.
5:28 pm on August 23rd, 2009 34
I'm not sure why you've given up on the adult institute route. Except for Pagoda and DE, you'll be given a solid base salary PLUS an apartment.
5:33 pm on August 23rd, 2009 35
"yada yada yada"
<del datetime="2009-08-24T07:40:21+00:00">Such a malcontent. No wonder teaching English is the only job you can hold. Well, there NO WAY I will lend you money, but I will give you advice for free.
Learn a useful trade. Do you want to be a lowly English teacher in your 30's, or 40's?
Quit whining about how everyone is out to get you. Hogwons are businesses, and sometimes your feelings are not at the top of their concerns.
Change your "I am a loser" attitude, to "I AM SOMEBODY". Don't be a mopey loser. Act like a winner and do something with your life.
Save some money, so you are not so desperate. That money may burrrrn a hole in your pocket, but try and save some of it.
good luck to you! And CHIN UP, MAN UP, and stiffen that spine!</del>
6:29 pm on August 23rd, 2009 36
there are many hagwons that cater to adults in the daechi/gangnam/jamsil area that pay a good salary AND provide an apt!
6:42 pm on August 23rd, 2009 37
Every time you write a comment that shows a nearly complete ignorance of what I've written — I'm going to delete it.
You are just being a troll — a person who doesn't even take the time to read what someone has written because their sole purpose is to poke people with a stick to see what happens…
6:52 pm on August 23rd, 2009 38
I haven't given up on adult institutes. In fact, that is still the target I'm shooting for and will be initially when I hit the ground. As planned, I'll broaden the search as time passes.
I broadened to include public schools after my initial contact with the big hakwon chains didn't produce a contract I'd want to take, and it was time for SMOE to process applications. While waiting on SMOE, and now that SMOE fell through, I've been applying for any adult jobs in Seoul/suburbs I've seen advertised and starting initial contacts with recruiters who have adult hakwon jobs listed.
I haven't broadened my search out to include kids schools yet at all.
That is just a possible tract I'll fall back on given how the Seoul market is tight this year given the significant increase of people coming over from the US, Canada, UK, and elsewhere due to the global economy.
1:57 am on December 1st, 2009 39
hahaha