By It is interesting that recently a debate was started by Thomas Ricks in regards to him wanting to shut down West Point because of the poor education they give compared to Ivy League colleges. Well he may have lost this debate after this report:
College senior Raymond Vetter gets up at dawn to fit in a run or a workout. Then, hair shorn neatly and pants pressed, he marches into breakfast, where he sits in an assigned seat. After six hours of instruction in such subjects as Japanese literature and systems engineering, two hours of intramural sports and another family-style meal with underclassmen, Vetter rushes to return to his room by the 11:30 p.m. curfew.Most college students, we think, do not march to meals. A goodly number of them drink into the wee hours, duck morning classes and fail to hit the gym with any regularity. But Vetter, 21, is a cadet at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., where college life is a bit different.
According to students, alumni, faculty and higher education experts, the undergraduate experience at West Point and the other service academies is defined by an intense work ethic and a drive to succeed on all fronts. “We face challenges and obstacles that not every college student has to face, but we are able to be competitive in all the different areas, from sports to academics,” Vetter says.
No alcohol is allowed in the dorms and freshmen are given only one weekend leave per semester. That rigor, combined with the virtue of a free education, has made West Point tops in FORBES’ list of the best colleges in the country, up from sixth place last year. The rankings are compiled in conjunction with Ohio University economist Richard Vedder and his Center for College Affordability & Productivity. [Shine]
You can see the full list from Forbes here.
I really have nothing bad to say about West Point. Like I have said before from my experience I have seen just as many good officers from each commissioning source and just as many dirt bags from each commissioning source. One difference I have seen from my experience is that it seems more high quality West Point junior officers end up getting out of the military compared to their ROTC & OCS peers. Maybe this is because of the high quality eduction they receive that may open other doors for them in the civilian world?
It is the sad reality. No mistake...
9:02 am on August 9th, 2009 1
My undergrad school came within the top 250…
10:55 am on August 9th, 2009 2
I knew a guy who graduated from West Point…I know they're taught keep their rooms clean and well organized there, but this guy was obsessive. Besides that, nice guy. Very smart, too.
11:00 am on August 9th, 2009 3
My theory is that service academies give the shitbags an ego, and make the guy ones hope there is something better out there…
11:01 am on August 9th, 2009 4
*good ones*
12:12 pm on August 9th, 2009 5
Are they being upgraded to the best level, or are the other Universities falling behind with curriculem such as degrees in "Outdoors", "Flower Arranging", "Transgenderism, and Homosexuality", "Cinemetography in films" and a host of other mundane subjects. Many European Universities are outscoring those in the US for the same reasons. (sticking to the basics, science, engineering, math etc.). Way too much "diversity" in the US, and very little focus on needed skills. Kind of an 'everyone has their special needs' that need to be addressed by the Universities.
2:19 pm on August 9th, 2009 6
No Dan, they do their best to beat the ego out of you. Those with particuarly well established egos have them recover on steriods. All the easy going guys I met on R-Day maintained that attitude after graduation. The shitbags remained shitbags.
10:35 pm on August 9th, 2009 7
The supposed doors that are open for former junior military officers is a crock of poup. These guys leave the military when they are 27, but are starting over in the job market at the same level as 22-year-olds.
4:29 am on August 10th, 2009 8
I think we need a definition or some examples of dirtbags.
Here's one…ADA 2LT from West Point comes to Korea expecting to be a platoon leader. Because no other LT wants to be a team player and give up his platoon after a year, he ends up being chemo in the battalion S3 shop and living in a box/luggage storage room because of lack of barracks space (even though staff CPTs were living single in large rooms designed for two). This guy scored over 1500 on his SAT and instantly turns to dirtbag (stops pressing uniform, doesn't shine boots, puts little effort into work, occasionally blows off PT, spends all free time and money in Stanleyville). He made a conscious effort to be a dirtbag as a way of revenge. He popped smoke after 5 years and is in the corporate world now, probably making a killing.
But what is a dirtbag? To me, there are two types of dirtbags. The scruffy guys with long hair, sloppy appearance, and poor work ethic are one type. But the other type are those who would stop at no length to further their own political ambitions at the expense of their peers and subordinates. The first type of dirtbag usually gets out after 5 years, but the second type of dirtbag is more treacherous because he is also a "lifer." The first dirtbag has little or no motivation to achieve, whereas the second dirtbag drains the motivation from others to give himself a false sense of achievement. If you think of the movie Office Space, you can easily see both types of dirtbags in action.
The dirtbag 2LT in my example was a victim of the second type of dirtbag.
2:34 pm on August 10th, 2009 9
With top marks in "Cost of Degree", "Alcoholism Prevention" and "Job Placement Percentage", of course it came in at #1.
I wouldn't go to #85. That would bite. You dare not cross the staff. A place like that would suck the life right out of you. At the least it would drive you batty. It's not a place to go if you have any stake in your future.
9:36 pm on August 10th, 2009 10
I don't think so…I think it makes more alcoholics than it prevents.
I didn't even taste alcohol until towards the end of Officer Basic Course (OBC), and now I'm an Army Substance Abuse Program (ASAP) Track I and II graduate.