By As I understand it, the US and SK now have a no-visa tourist stay policy that began Nov. 2008. So, I can just hop on a plane and head over…. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’ll look pretty stupid at immigration at the airport if that isn’t so…
My wife is highly pushing the idea of going to Korea by next Friday and looking for a job in country. I’m still not 100% thrilled with the idea, but she had told her mother to expect me next week in an effort to cheer her mother up now that things have settled down at her house with family and friends as time has passed since her father died. I’d like to think it over a few more days, but I’ll probably buy a ticket tomorrow or the next day…
I checked the website of the Korean Consulate in Atlanta, and it said the no-visa clause went into effect Nov. 2008. It will seem odd arriving in Korea without a visa given the number of times I had to go to Japan to get a new visa or renew one and how much trouble TESOLers have to go through getting a release letter to get a new E-2 visa even if the school was cheating you or went bankrupt or was hit by a meteor.
One thing I’ve heard at Dave’s recently that gives me pause is that some people were told that if they came to Korea to look for a job, they’d have to fly back to their home country to do an interview at the nearest Korean consulate to get a work visa. Interviews are a new thing for my ESL industry experience. And, I’ve read veteran teachers saying such an interview isn’t necessary if you’ve taught in Korea before…
I think the chance is slim, but it would be a major kick in the balls if I flew to Korea, found a job, and then was told I had to fly back to the US, interview, then fly back to Korea — instead of just doing a visa run to Japan…
Anyway, I’m going to give it some thought overnight and tomorrow, but chances are I’ll buy a ticket sometime tomorrow afternoon or night. — (My wife will keep mentioning it until then….)
[Update]
Someone at Dave’s mentioned today that they got the call directly from SMOE telling him the contract had been voided, and today is the day his visa issuance packet arrived he needs to get the visa at the consulate.
From what I’ve heard, in fact, that visa number SMOE got him has a 90 day shelf-life if they don’t go about the trouble of canceling it. So, if the guy finds another job in Korea, and they start processing him, he might get hung up in immigration because of this other really non-existent visa.
I add this here because we had a conversation a week or so ago about the ethics of a would-be teacher signing a contract they know they might drop if a better offer comes through…
1:07 pm on August 20th, 2009 1
I am in the US and don't know Korean law…but in the US, you can't come in on the visa waiver and then switch to a work visa, to my knowledge. You can't even switch to student status.
1:28 pm on August 20th, 2009 2
It could have changed, but the way it worked in Korea before, even when there was no no-visa waiver, you had to fly to another country to process a visa. You had to do that even if you finished a contract and got a new one at a different school. Most people flew to Japan – often Osaka where you could get the visa the same day. Some would use the opportunity to go to Thailand or the Philippines.
As far as I know that is still the case and what some people do.
In the past, some people would get the mandatory tourist visa and find a job in country and then do the visa run.
It was all pretty standard and routine. I probably did the Japan visa run 3 times during the 4 years I taught in Korea.
I doubt the no-visa tourist deal with the US has changed how that works. I'm sure I'll have to leave Korea to get a visa, but I doubt it will be mandatory to return to the US (home country) to do so…
1:28 pm on August 20th, 2009 3
Prior to the implementation of the Visa Waiver Program in Nov 2008, you could travel to Korea as a tourist with a US passport without visa for up to 30 days. After the VWP the tourist stay without visa extended to 90 days.
http://www.dynamic-korea.com/consulate_service/vi…
It's probably still true that you would have to leave Korea and visit a Korean consulate/embassy in another country to change your tourist stay status to a work stay status.
2:40 pm on August 20th, 2009 4
I thought that if you have held an E2 visa before, that you could just make the flight to Japan for your next visa and that you were not required to have an interview.
3:48 pm on August 20th, 2009 5
Your wife is Korean, yes? Or at least ethnic Korean (perhaps a former Korean citizen). If she holds US citizenship, she needs to apply for an F-4 visa for herself and an F-2 for you. If she's a Korean citizen, just an F-2-1 for you.
But you can't come in on visa waiver and start working. That's a tourist visa, which means you can only do "touristy" things. In fact, looking for work is a violation of the visa status, albeit one which nobody really cares to enforce.
3:59 pm on August 20th, 2009 6
Yeah, that interview requirement I guess was added with the change in visa regulations last year. From what I understand, this is only required for those who haven't had an E-2 previously. I am unclear as to whether you are affected if you had an e-2 previous to these regulations coming into effect, but it seems like you probably won't need the interview if you've had an e-2 before at any time. At least that's my guess.
4:46 pm on August 20th, 2009 7
Thanks. I saw this and the other comment.
That is what the Consulate in Atlanta told us too. I had hoped possibly we could use her mother as the money sponsor, but that was a no go. (My wife still has Korean citizenship with a US permanent residency card).
I don't plan on doing privates while I'm looking, because they are illegal, and I also hated them the couple of times someone talked me into helping a Korean friend out who had a job interview lined up in the US. I'll just be looking for job and visiting my mother-in-law…
8:56 pm on August 20th, 2009 8
Thanks for the link.
Reading it, I took it to mean that if Korea is your final destination, that you are not "transiting" through, you did not have to show a return ticket already purchased…
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_…
That's from the US government. It reads just like it was before – the Japan visa run still applies…The Korean government link didn't mention changing visas at all – at least on that page…
10:46 pm on August 20th, 2009 9
I’ve heard that too, but not from a source I could call definitive. I also saw on a SMOE ad recently that now nobody had to do an interview for them.
My guess is that the visa run to Japan is still a normal think in the ESL industry in Seoul (or I’m in for a rude awakening — kinda like when I went to Japan on a visa run and tried to exchange Won at the airport in Osaka because I didn’t have time at Kimpo…)
10:47 pm on August 20th, 2009 10
“for them” — I meant a consulate interview if applying for a SMOE visa…
10:29 pm on August 20th, 2009 11
Why not go ahead and get a tourist visa before you come? I think Atlanta is close to you and it would only take a couple days.
12:23 am on August 21st, 2009 12
I might. It isn't necessary. It would be somewhat a waste of money and time but not much so…
1:34 am on August 21st, 2009 13
As far as I know. If you have worked before on a E-2 visa you do not need to have a consulate interview so thus you can apply for an E-2 from a third country (so Japan Visa trip). BUT if you have had previous trouble such as being caught doing privates, criminal record in Korea (fight, traffic accident, etc), left Korea one day too late from the date you where supposed to leave, you have a good chance of being told you need an Interview back in the US.
As you commented before that you had bad mouthed a previous school you taught at and he wanted an apology and take down of the material. I would check to see if he has ever complained to some government agency like Immigration or Customs, all it could take is a simple little black mark in a file and you might have to get that interview.
Good Luck
2:13 am on August 21st, 2009 14
Thanks. If it came to that, I would stand some chance of talking a school into putting up the airfare since that is a common feature in the industry.
On the one school that refused to give me a proof of employment letter (thus breaking Korean law once again), he didn't ask for an apology. He just asked I remove the post from the Internet, which was impossible because I don't run the website and emails to the person who does haven't been answered.
I'm not worried about immigration. It wouldn't be within my control anyway. So I'll deal with any issue as it pops up.
I do wonder – why would a person have to return to their home country for such an interview? Why couldn't a consulate in a third country do? They'll have fluent English speakers most likely since it is a global language of business…???…
3:34 am on August 21st, 2009 15
Well "US" is the way bureaucracy works. Many countries have similar rules and regulations. The US makes some people who want to apply for some residency and other visas make you have to go back to your home or aother country. Same with Australia.
I agree it is illogical and silly. To have to go back for a five minute interview with some consulate worker who in the grand scheme really does not care. Or ask just stupid and inane questions. God I would rather say hey let me pay for a translator and big fee/bribe that is half or less the cost of plane ticket.
4:48 am on August 21st, 2009 16
I tell ya — if half of these stories the last couple of days at Dave's ESL Cafe are not trolls —- and I'm 100% I'm not one of the trolls — the Seoul school board just trashed Korea's already terrible ESL reputation. It looked like the public school jobs were going to help rectify the imbalance of horror stories vs good experiences. It ain't now…
7:09 am on August 22nd, 2009 17
Ticket booked. I purchased a ticket for the first week of September.
Over at Dave's ESL Cafe, several more people have said they received a cancellation email from the Seoul school board the day before their flight. In one case, the guy got the email while on a layover on his way to Korea. Some were lucky, like me, that they had not bought a ticket yet. Others were not so lucky.
The Korean government just gave the ESL industry in Korea another big black eye.
3:37 pm on August 22nd, 2009 18
Sheesh.
I hate to say it… but… I think LORDOFE2 is closer to the truth.
Unlike the trolls with baseless inflammatory statements, however, I will explain exactly why.
Several months ago, I suggested to come directly to Korea and find the perfect job in person. This would allow you to "interview" the hagwons while getting an edge over unseen candidates who were going through expensive and questionable brokers.
It's a good deal for everyone… you work exactly where you want to and the director avoids the broker lottery.
And, assuming you aren't some kind of freak in person, it is a winning strategy.
That was good advice then. It may not be now.
At the beginning of vacation season, directors are in need of extra teachers for extra classes. They know September through December will be slow… but the income generated in the summer will cover that so there is no risk.
Because you hesitated, you are now asking a director to hire you after the busy season and keep you for 4 months… maybe even at a small loss… with the expectation that he will make it back in the winter.
But that's not how directors (or smart businessmen) think. I's easier to wait and hire someone when they are needed just in case something goes wrong.
But you can overcome this if you are shyt-hot in an interview and can convince the director he is a fool to let this one slip away to the competition. Only you know if that is the case.
Now, is another reason… something EVERYBODY in the ESL racket should pay attention to… because there is a real possibility a lot of people are going to be out of a job soon.
…and you heard it from me first.
I recently had a number of top-level directors over for drinks and we talked about the business in general. Right now there is fear… a fear so terrible that it is causing incredible stress for directors that have a lot of money invested in interiors and advertising (employees are expendable).
There is a belief that the flu season this year will put a lot of places out of business… especially children's hagwons. As soon as one little snot-leaker shows up sick, a lot of precious snowflakes will be pulled out. This may apply to adult institutes as well.
The media is expected to inflame this so all hakwons will be affected even if there are isolated incidents.
The result is a lot of directors are quietly covering their bases… not expanding… or even cutting back in certain areas.
Maybe it won't happen… but the people who matter in the field of diseases are acting as if it is inevitable… and the more successful hagwon directors are quietly doing the same.
The time to come to Korea may be AFTER the panic, layoffs and closings, when there will be a shortage of teachers.
4:14 pm on August 22nd, 2009 19
You're fine with everything except the first part, and your position directly counters his.
He was just a troll making a short comment that showed gross ignorance about what I had actually written in the post. He implied I had had several contracts pulled at the last minute and that I was stupidly worried about not finding a job. Then he said that everyone with a pulse can get hired – which is opposite of your opinion.
Unable to answer the questions I asked that pointed out his ignorance, he switched to saying I'd be a typical TESOL loser stuck in a crap job and whining about it before I ran home to mommy because I was too ignorant to get a good job to begin with.
Typical troll BS.
4:46 pm on August 22nd, 2009 20
On your points, I'm a little unclear on what you mean by carrying me until the winter break. Business does pick up in the summer and winter, but it sounds like you are looking at it as if the jobs you get are mostly from institutes adding workers – when most jobs given are filling slots of instructors that are leaving…
If I didn't have a dead father-in-law and waiting mother-in-law, I'd most likely keep doing the job hunt in the comfort of my computer room – especially now with the job market being tight in Seoul and SMOE just dumping X% of 100 screwed over TESOLers into the job market because they decide to go to Korea anyway even after feeling the Korean shaft sunk in deep……and I'd wait a couple months for things to open up as teachers start doing the midnight run back home in the public schools.
But that ain't the situation I have.
I'd also continue the job hunt from here if I thought there was a significant chance I wouldn't be able to find a decent in Seoul or beyond. The bulk of TESOLers, from reading them over at Dave's, have a "Seoul or bust" attitude. Or throw in Pusan too. Unlike people like LORDOFE2, I don't look down my nose at small cities like Wonju where I spent my first two years in Korea. I really want to do some work with NK-related NGOs, but if I'm not having luck getting a job in Seoul or its suburbs while looking in person, I'm sure I'll find one I'll like in another city in a neighboring province or in Kyonggi-do.
My guess is, if I decide to open the job hunt up to include children's hakwons, I'll be able to find a job in Seoul or the suburbs…
1:04 am on August 25th, 2009 21
Here is a note on what you were describing concerning the flu season:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=1…
Nothing I can do about that factor given the reasons for going over.
10:35 am on August 25th, 2009 22
<del datetime="2009-08-25T23:56:37+00:00">"So, calling it a backwater is a compliment?"
A backwater is not a complement but it is the truth. I did say you were dropped by some schools, and I stand by that. However, I hardly think that is a slur, unless you are extremely sensitive.
If you want to deny that you were dropped, then state it. If you plan on refusing to work in a backwater teaching children, then say you will NEVER do that. But you wont do that, will you.
I know what you will end up doing, and as soon as you end up there, I will remind you that "I TOLD YOU SO".
By the way, if you are going to delete my comments, please have the honesty to quote me exactly. I never said “why so defensive?’ (YOUR quotes), I said "your tone is very defensive and full of accusations". Which any reader can see. Its not the same in meaning or intent. You made it into a question.</del>
10:55 am on August 25th, 2009 23
And that is why you are a troll and will be deleted.
"I didn't say '1 + 2 = 3.' I said '2 + 1 = 3'!! Why are you jumping on me?!!…"
If I end up working in a city like Wonju in a hakwon teaching kids, you can come on and say "I told you so" all you want, and I'll delete it, because my job search and my future time in Korea will not be defined by an ass. I've worked in Wonju. I've taught hakwon kids. And that was fine by me, and if I do it again, it will be fine by me as well though not my first choice.
Again, my time in Korea will not be defined by an ass who says things like "I never said "why so definsive?" I said "your tone is very defensive" —