ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on September 8th, 2009 at 7:48 am

Stars & Stripes Exposes Prostitution In South Korea’s Juicy Bars

Here is some shocking news for everyone, the Stars & Stripes has investigated and confirmed that (gasp!) juicy bars are fronts for prostitution!:

Filipina Juicy Girls

It took less than an hour and $40 in glasses of juice for the pretty young woman working at the noisy bar to offer up her cell phone number and a promise that “the pleasures of a Filipina” could be had for the right price.

As eager young American servicemen from nearby Camp Casey started to fill the bar around her, the woman repeatedly touched a patron suggestively and offered a proposition as thinly veiled as she was scantily clad.

Juice, it turns out, is not all that is sold inside many of South Korea’s “juicy bars,” the seedy entertainment establishments that commonly cluster near the gates of U.S. military bases across South Korea.

Prostitution and indentured servitude are everyday realities at many of these popular hangouts for American soldiers, according to past and present bar girls, many of whom were enticed from the Philippines to work in the South Korean bars with false promises that they could earn legitimate incomes as singers and entertainers.

“If you don’t sell a lot of drinks, [the bar owners] are going to push you to go out with a customer to make money,” said Jenny, a former bar girl who asked not to be fully identified. “I was shocked the first night I worked there.”

And it’s all happening right under the noses of U.S. military officials and the South Korean and Philippine governments, women’s advocacy groups assert.

“Three governments are to be blamed for their irresponsibility,” said Yu Young-nim, director of My Sister’s Place, a social service agency that helps Philippine bar girls forced into prostitution in South Korea. “The Philippine government for not working hard to create job opportunities for its poor people, the Korean government for not managing and controlling jobs [given to immigrants] and the U.S. government for neglecting its responsibility to supervise its soldiers and for not helping these victims.”

Officially, none of what often transpires inside the juicy bars is supposed to be happening.  [Stars & Stripes]

Read the rest because Stars & Stripes has a whole lot more on this as well as plenty of pictures of juicy girls if you have never seen one before.

For those that don’t know the prostitution in the ville has greatly been cleaned up compared to 7 years ago when Fox News first issued the report on prostitution in the ville.  However, that doesn’t mean that prostitution has gone away, it has just been concealed and not out in the open as it once was.  Personally the prostitution doesn’t really bother me, it is the human trafficking that does.  For all the briefings I have received about human trafficking while stationed in Korea; I continue to wonder if this is such a concern then why doesn’t USFK put off limits any bar that employs third country nationals?  That would pretty much end the human trafficking problem for USFK because the juicy bars would have to employ Korean nationals which are much harder to traffic in.

However, I don’t see this happening because of the politics involved around the camps with the business owners making fortunes off the imported women.  In my opinion USFK is probably going to keep things as quiet with the business owners as possible to ensure that the USFK transformation plan to consolidate at Camp Humphreys goes off without any more delays, which may be a wise course of action.  However, once the relocation is complete USFK should definitely look at changing the ville culture in Korea because both Korea and the US should be embarrassed that such a system that is currently in place in the ville still exists.

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  • Frank S. Kim
    2:11 am on September 8th, 2009 1

    Thanks for your raising awareness about these issues. I think prostitution is inhumane and human trafficking an even viler problem. However though your proposal to stop trafficking by having the "USFK put off limits any bar that employs third country nationals" would have some success it would not stop it completely. There would still be trafficking of South Korean women. Such trafficking of South Korean women happens both within and outside in borders, such as here in California.

    Click on the "!" balloon in the middle to find out more information about this slavery incident in Sunnyvale, CA.

  • chaz022002
    5:29 am on September 8th, 2009 2

    I've always wondered why you don't see these types of establishments around Itaewon. I mean you have "Hooker Hill" but most of the clubs on the Hill are off limits and patrolled by CPs. I have only been to Camp Casey twice and I'll tell you the majority of those girls would have to pay me to go to a hotel room with them. The few that are attractive are so surrounded by GI's that you can't get near them and lets face it they're not the ones paying "Bar Fines". The thing that I hate the most about the Juicy Bar scene is that women like my wife (Korean) who is a College Educated Carreer Woman, get looked at by many military members as if she were some whore I bought in a bar. I am glad that this Article Pointed out that most if not all of the Juicy Bars are filled with non-Korean women. I'm surprised that the influx of Russian Women wasn't mentioned at all. It would be interesting to poll the number of Spouses at Camp Casey and Hovey to see how many were Filipino or Russian. I would say that 90 percent of those women were ex-juicy girls.

  • Leon LaPorte
    7:58 am on September 8th, 2009 3

    I am shocked, SHOCKED, to learn about this! I thought General LaPorte had eliminated this scourge from the entire peninsula.

    1. Not all Juicy = Whore. It often depends on the combination of the bar and the girl. Everyone knows where the bars are where you can get "the pleasures of a Filipina”. Has anyone ever heard this terminology in real life (especially spoken by a Filipina)? I damn near soiled myself. Good one S&S. I'd like to hear the recording of that interview.

    2. Korea is a sovereign country with its own laws and enforcement apparatus, such as it is. Are we (US military) to assume the "White Mans Burden" (see Kipling) and teach these savages the ways of a true civilized society? The military has rules against prostitution on the books, we've done our part.

    An aside on this subject: It seems homosexuals are allowed the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy but a heterosexual military member will have the full force of the United States Military in their ass should they wish to get laid (pun possibly intended). As long as it is between consenting adults it should be left alone. (Note: this excludes the human trafficking angle)

    3. These poor innocent girls! These "reporters" should visit the Philippines; take a look at the supply end. 99% of these girls KNOW they are not coming to Korea (or Japan, or wherever else) to be singers. This isn't Carnival Cruise Lines. Granted, some truly are desperate women. They have kid(s) to support and there aren't many opportunities in the PI. If you want to pass blame around, revisit the stranglehold the Catholic church has on sex education and society in general in the Philippines and you will discover one of the roots of the problem. That said, life is a series of choices and these are grown women. The choices they have made had the biggest influence on how they ended up in the ville at TDC.

    4. There has been and always will be businesses which cater to young men, far from home, outside of military facilities. If prostitution is the oldest profession then camp towns are their oldest stomping grounds. I'd venture to guess this was even true during the crusades.

  • Pete
    10:10 am on September 8th, 2009 4

    "who is a College Educated Carreer Woman"

    What does a "Carreer" Woman do? :smile:

  • Cloying_Odor
    11:16 am on September 8th, 2009 5

    Ahhh… but during the crusades that ass was taken in the name of the Church at no charge.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    11:24 am on September 8th, 2009 6


    Yes South Korean women can also be human trafficked but it is much harder to do in Korea now a days compared to a couple of decades ago when most of the women in the clubs were trafficked from the Korean countryside:

    Now a days most of the Korean prostitutes are professional sex workers. The Koreans being trafficked abroad are usually not the professionals and rather newbies thinking they can make quick money overseas to pay off huge debts they have incurred in Korea.

  • You Can't Handl
    12:16 pm on September 8th, 2009 7

    Leo—the problem is you can't separate human trafficking from the Phillipina prostitution business going on in bars catering to SOFA members. As long as TCN entertainers and the juice-quota system combined with the bar owner or production company holding pass ports continues, trafficking is in effect. While we are at it let's call trafficking what it is–slavery; it's the correct label, anything is touchy-feely political correctness or people who don't want to call it what it is.

  • You Can't Handl
    12:20 pm on September 8th, 2009 8

    Leo–problem is prostitution that depends on TCN, bar owner/production companies holding passports and a juice quota system is P&HT trade. Furthermore P&HT is PC-way of avoiding saying slavery. They are synonymos; P&HT=Slavery.

  • gerry
    12:42 pm on September 8th, 2009 9

    I paid $900 to mama san for my "whore I bought in a bar". We got the same looks and treatment while in Korea as you did, probobly worse. My brother-in-law disowned his sister (my wife), not because she worked in a bar, but because she married an American and disgraced the family.

    My wife and I traveled the world (Germany, Spain, Italy, Egypt, Netherlands, France, Belgium, as well as Jamaica, Arueba, Bahamas, etc.) My wife got her highschool GED as well as an associates degree. We both had careers and both retired at "55" years of age.

    We live in Florida in a "high class neigborhood" with all the luxuries. Our neighbors are Lawyers, architects, businessmen, school teachers, all highly educated. My wife is very popular in the groups she belongs to. We have a newly built house (all paid for) pool, waterfalls, fountain, and have the best landscaping in the neighborhood, on a double lot. Much of this is due to the "whore" you described. As far as the neighbors and all their education, we just say, "they had all that, and they only got as far as we did?".

    You need to rethink who some of these "whores" are and why they ended up living life under a rock, while you frolic along with your "educated" bimbo.

  • Dan85
    12:51 pm on September 8th, 2009 10

    I spent very little time in the "ville" when I was in Korea. However, I met a really nice "juicy" girl that was legitimately suckered into going to Korea. She was a beautiful, intelligent, computer science major (I quizzed her). Despite her book smarts, she actually did come convinced she would be a singer. She was extremely unenthusiastic about her job and her favorite thing to talk about was how many days she had until she got to go home (like a soldier). I only went to that bar a few times, but I would chat with her on instant messenger for a number of months until I left.

    She made it back home and went back to college. Still correspond with her now.

    That said, 99% of them know what they are getting into, and some voluntarily reup to stay in Korea after their "tour" is up.

  • JoeC
    12:52 pm on September 8th, 2009 11

    There are lots of shades of grey between consensual prostitution and human trafficking.

    I've met girls who say they actually enjoy what they do. They say it's a relatively easy and even fun way to make good money. For those who are independent (aren't being pimped), they actually feel a sense of empowerment and control over the men. There are more girls like that than some of you might want to believe freelancing in the bars.

    Then there are the girls who claim they only did it to pay off debts. Fine. But that's still a choice they make. There are a lot of other things they can do to pay off debts.

    The only ones I would call victims of trafficking are the ones deceived into a contractual debt system that they can never seem to work themselves out of. That amounts to a form of slavery. That was more common with not only with the Filippinas and Russians, but also the Korea girls. Korean girls used to be threatened to be sent to a Glass House to work off their debts faster. Filipina and Russian girls would be threatened to be sent to work out of a Korean bar. Those were considerably worse fates than working in a GI bar for most of them, so they did whatever they could to keep the mama-sans happy.

    I haven't been to Dongducheon or Itaewon in years. I am only familiar with Songtan. I know of girls working now under the first two conditions. I haven't met a girl claiming to be in the third condition for years.

    The thing that actually stress the girls most is when the bar is placed off-limits. When that happens, if the girls don't get a transfer to another local bar, they may be sent home to the Philippines or transferred to another town. So, USFK might not be doing them any favors.

    I get this information by asking girls if they plan to extend their contract. Most say they really want to. Some say they are thinking about it. The ones who say hell no, will not hesitate to tell you why: 'They don't pay me what they promised,' or 'I miss my kids.' But I don't get, 'I feel enslaved.' Of course the responses in Dongducheon and Itaewon may be very different.

  • Marcus Ambrose
    1:01 pm on September 8th, 2009 12

    First, I've been saying for years that the U.S. should put bars off limits if they have TCNs working there. However, for those that really know Korea, there are more bars that cater to Koreans only that have Filipinas also. Clubs in Inchon, Daejon, and other places where there are NO Americans. In this case, the Philippine government has let the girls down (if the girls want out).

    I disagree with the 99% of them know what they will do remark. I was in a bar (CRC) where a whole band worked. 3 girls as juicys; the two male members as bartender and DJ. They thought they were a band, apparently were wrong. At any rate, a lot of them DO know what they will be doing, some don't. I don't understand the Koreans on this: if you want a prostitute, go to Angeles City and hire and import prostitutes. Jeez.

    Bottom line: If there are TCNs, keep Americans out to avoid this black eye.

  • guitard
    2:14 pm on September 8th, 2009 13

    The thing that I hate the most about the Juicy Bar scene is that women like my wife (Korean) who is a College Educated Carreer Woman, get looked at by many military members as if she were some whore I bought in a bar.

    There must be more to this story than a simple case of soldiers seeing your wife and thinking, "Korean woman married to US military = bar whore."

    These days a typical GI – even those who spend a lot of time in the ville – does a tour in Korea and never sees a Korean juicy girl the whole time he's here. So what would make him think that about your wife?

    Something doesn't compute…

  • John
    5:53 pm on September 8th, 2009 14

    I posted some thoughts on the juicy scene in Itaewon and my observations from time spent in the Philippines on my blog (

    I'll limit my comment here to the proposition that all bars employing TCNs should automatically be placed off limits.

    That would be wrong.

    I occasionally visit 3 Filipino bars in Itaewon which obviously have pinay staff. None are juicy bars, but I'm sure the bargirls would accept a drink if offered. Where do you draw the line?

    You know, I willingly accept and abide by the rules regarding off limits establishments due to alleged prostitution and human trafficing. I'm sure of the former, but have some doubts about the latter. Regardless, off limits is off limits.

    But to put nice venues like Manila Bar and Goldfish off limits because they happen to employ Filipinas would just not be justified. In fact, it would be arrogant and demeaning to the Filipino people.

  • Villain
    8:02 pm on September 8th, 2009 15

    Having been in Korea for 20 plus years, I find it funny how the attitude by military leadership has changed since the end of Korean bar girls. When Korean bar girls were around commanders, first sergeants, an high ranking people had "yobos", Now yobos hardly exist. Korean bar girls had their own place to stay and you could go there on your day off. Unit parties were routinely held in bars with girls as door prizes. I know the leadership can get rid of the TCN girls if they want. They got rid of the Former Soviet Union (FSU) girls a few years back. Wait a few months and we will hear more about how evil bar girls are. Also most of them know what they are getting into as they have been to Korea and other countries multiple times. I understand they are in the Middle East as domestics being their front. Personall I think USFK leadership is the worst in the world.

  • chaz022002
    9:17 pm on September 8th, 2009 16

    I agree that most soldiers who have been to Korea do not second guess that Korean spouses are not Juicy Girls for the most part. However, the ones who have never been to Korea are the ones that are the first to ask "So did you meet your wife in a bar…?" Also, those who have been military for more than a few years and were in Korea during the mid to late 90's have seen Korean Juicy's.

  • tokyojesusfist
    11:45 pm on September 8th, 2009 17

    A lot of problems would be solved by simply legalizing prostitution. It would be win-win for everyone involved (except feminists, but who gives a shit).

  • JoeC
    1:05 am on September 9th, 2009 18

    Over 20 years ago, prostitution was de facto legalized. When you arrived in country and show up to sign in at your orderly room, the first thing you got was your first aid kit; a box of condoms.

    The girls working in the bars had to wear a tag verifying they were current in their health exams. The base clinics had personnel assigned to do periodic checks on the tags and coordinate with the local Korean clinics.

    That doesn't happen now, so if an outbreak of something serious occurs, it might not be detected in time to prevent serious damage. Shouldn't this be a Force Protection issue?

    As I mentioned, some Korean girls were caught up in financial debts to club owners they could never pay back, but that wasn't true for all of them. Almost all the girls had their own place, usually single room flat in a small communal compound that were common in Korea then. Many of those places were well furnished and girls were doing well enough to support themselves and family members. Some certainly had a higher standard of living than the average Korean.

    Had you heard of Jessica Cutler, the congressional staffer and part-time hooker to Capital Hill elites? She wrote on her anonymous blog, the Washingtonienne, "I'm sure I am not the only one who makes money on the side this way: How can anybody live on $25K/year??"

    So I'm for legalizing consensual prostitution also. It does have advantages for all involved.

    1:17 am on September 9th, 2009 19

    "A lot of problems would be solved by simply legalizing prostitution. It would be win-win for everyone involved (except feminists, but who gives a shit)."

    Problem will still be there.

    Why not just legalize beating the heck out of feminists? They cause a lot more problems then just prostitution. If you could beat them at will, then they would learn to keep their big fat mouths shut. Prostitutes would be free to do their business and everyone would be happy. Think about it all the unfairness that have been caused by feminists.

    You got to learn how to get at the root of the problem and fix that.

  • Frank S. Kim
    1:27 am on September 9th, 2009 20

    Legalizing prostitution is a horrible idea.

    People here say they are against trafficking but for legalizing prostitution. If you legalize prostitution it is infinitely harder to determine if a prostitute is a slave because the pimp/slave owner can just say that the prostitute is working of her own free will. Amsterdam has a _huge_ problem with trafficking.

    If you legalize prostitution it's a gift to the sex industry in general and pimps, traffickers, etc. in particular.

    Amsterdam is already rethinking its legalized prostitution experiment.

    The way to stop trafficking and prostitution is to go after the demand, the johns.

    Finally it's a moral issue. If you want a society where it's the norm to pay for sex and to treat women as commodities then legalizing prostitution certainly is an avenue you should pursue. But that's not the kind of society I'd ever want to be a part of.

  • Lemmy
    1:28 am on September 9th, 2009 21

    Cost for a night with a whore from a Juicy Bar = $100

    Cost for a date with a nice girl you don't fornicate with = $100

    Cost for marrying either = a lot

    Whats the difference? I have no idea

  • traffik
    6:33 am on September 9th, 2009 22

    It’s sad the military supports the human trafficking that goes on in Korea. Did I correctly read that one military representative state something like “most juicy bars don’t have prostitution?”. God that’s despicable.

    Frankly, those old juicy bars mostly have ugly women and the price for either drinks or a night of pleasure is way too freaking high. I was in a regular Karaoke bar recently.

    I was meeting a couple of 40ish Korean women about English teaching. These military guys came in and embarrassed the shit out of me, not only acting the fools but hitting on these older women. That was the last time (and will remain the last time) I will visit a Korean “Ville” bar ever again.

  • Marcus Ambrose
    9:16 am on September 9th, 2009 23

    I'm pretty sure that Manila Bar is owned by a former Filipina who now has Korean citizenship, and her husband is on a family visa. So, that's an easy one.

    I guess the thing about juicy bars would be: you know it when you see it. I agree it's a hard line, but until they draw it stories like this will just keep making US service members look bad.

    11:21 am on September 9th, 2009 24

    Bar girls as door prizes. That is the way it should BE!!

    Now, with the current regime, gays will be running around in the military, and straight men will have to share a fox hole with them. America used to love GOD, and speak English. Now we are almost a Muslim nation and we have to learn Mexican.

    We need to bring back bar girls as door prizes and bring back America.

    11:42 am on September 9th, 2009 25

    You konw when you hit the sweet spot with a Philipina bar lady when you hear "lisya butas" in pleasure. Over and over.

  • PBAR
    11:53 am on September 9th, 2009 26

    I'd dispute that the higher ranks don't have Korean wives anymore, at least in the AF. The apartment tower I live in at Osan has tons of Koreans living there, seems like almost have the people in the tower actually. Some are Korean-Americans but most are spouses. I know several O-5s (myself included)with Korean wives and an O-6 and E-9 or two the same.

    As to what Chaz said, that attitude used to be a lot worse. Even the Korea-American servicewomen were assumed to be juicee girls. Even worse, we had a K-A E-3 in my section and the black female E-8 told her that if the AF didn't work out for her, she could be a juicee girl. Haven't seen that sort of attitude during this tour but the last time I was here in '97 it was quite bad.

  • You Can't Handl
    11:53 am on September 9th, 2009 27

    Lemmy–wow, you are underpaying your prostitutes and overpaying your dates. Might want to rethink your strategy.

    Lot of counselors available to help you with any adaptation issues you have relating to women as equals and having postive give/take relationships.

  • gerry
    11:57 am on September 9th, 2009 28

    JOEC, I'll take it a step further. Apparently Korea is not now the way it was 30+ years ago when I was there. Osan had over a dozen large bars with up to 50 bar girls in each one.( all young and beautiful) The price for a night was $10. You could shack up with a girl for $130 a month. ( an E-4 made about $350 a month). Many of the girls (at that time) were sending much of the money back home. Chico ville, (as it was called at the time) was just outside the main gate of Osan AB. The streets were dirt/mud and most places of buisiness had open fronts. (No windows). Trash on base was allowed to be carried of by the local Koreans for whatever they could salvage. The US paid nothing for this service. The same situation existed in Taiwan, (where I was also stationed) only there were more bars and the going rate was $2.50 when I got there and $5 when I left. In Vietnam, where the number of bars in Saigon was unlimited on Tu Do street, and the going rate was $10. or a carton of cigarettes ($2.50?) got you an all nighter with a "beautiful" girl your own age. 18-19-20-21?

    What difference did it make with going out with a "nice girl"? 1st, sex was a given, and after a while you began to look for more in the woman you dated. Their were no games to be played for sex, so the issue became compatability and similar interests "outside of sex". I began to realize the games that US women were playing for a peek at she could give the right guy and decided I liked the "no sex games" better.

    When there is a military post or base with thousands of young horny GIs, you will always find camp followers. The poorer the country the more. The French during the Korean war hired French prostitutes to be brought to the front lines for the pleasure of the troops. The US does not condone this but allows "locals" in certain areas, with medical checkups, for the same purpose.

    It would appear after so many years that current troops in Korea are dealing with a few of the leftovers from times past. Such as it was when I was first stationed in Japan in 1968. I feel sorry for the single GIs who have no other recourse. As for the "Holier than thou" reformers, they were always around.

    12:06 pm on September 9th, 2009 29

    Ya Lemmy, next time, she should pay the bus fare, and you can pay the Wendy's.

  • gerry
    12:21 pm on September 9th, 2009 30

    When I was stationed in Taiwan at Ching Chuan Kang AB,(CCK) 1970s. The Imperial bar gave tickets every time you bought a drink. Two days before payday they always held a raffle based on your tickets. 1st prize was a bottle of scotch, a briefcase, and any girl in the bar. (about 25, very young and beautiful girls, when mini skirts were in style). 2nd prize was a briefcase and any girl in the bar. 3rd, 4th, 5th, prizes were any girl in the bar. My girl at the time worked there, so she always gave me the tickets that other GIs didn't want.

    I used the briefcase for the remainder of my career in the AF. The scotch was lousy and I was a beer man, (.50 a beer). She was beautiful, and will always be in my memories.

  • Villain
    3:41 pm on September 9th, 2009 31

    From what I understand most of the sexually transmitted disease (I know it as VD) is not from the juicy girls, but from female GI's. How come they are not outlawed?

  • Teadrinker
    4:01 pm on September 9th, 2009 32

    “they had all that, and they only got as far as we did?”

    You know, I nearly let some snobs get me down this morning (long story, I'll spare you the details), but I felt much better after I remembered these words. I know it's common sense, but your words were fresh in my mind, so I still owe you some thanks.

  • AD
    4:02 pm on September 9th, 2009 33

    Q. What do you call a US Military female in Korea?

    A. Lonely and probably homely!

  • guitard
    6:49 pm on September 9th, 2009 34

    Usually even ugly girls get plenty of attention at a military base.

    7:12 pm on September 9th, 2009 35

    Good point Guitard. To all you boys who claim that they were with "hotties". SHOW PIX. No pix, then SHADDAP.

  • Junior
    7:25 pm on September 9th, 2009 36

    ….relating to women as equals and having postive give/take relationships…..

    Yeah. There are SO MANY of THOSE in Korea…..

  • Lemmy
    10:43 pm on September 9th, 2009 37

    YCHTT, I don't teat women as equals, I never have and I never will. Simply because I am a man and thats the natural way. It is only stupidity in reason to assume men and women are equal. A perfect example is no woman is capable of doing what I've done and seen other men do. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, you have a lot to learn as no one could ever explain to you what it is like to fight for your life on the battle field. Have you ever heard of a little thing called the "Mogodishu Mile," how about Guadal Canal, Omaha Beach, the "Battle of the Buldge" the seige of Stalingrad? I'm not saying women wern't there, but I am saying that the women there did not play an active role combating the enemy. Just ask Jessica Lynch or these other women who have become "heroes". I openly challenge any woman to a bare hands fight to the death with me. Crying is not allowed in the rules either.

    Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina, you may not know that and ther may be some controversy in the athletic world today, but that alon with men can not have children and women can is another difference.

    If you are convinced men and women are equal, you are an idiot and you do not need to resopond to anything I write.

  • Lemmy
    10:51 pm on September 9th, 2009 38

    Frank, please define prostitution.

    What is it called when a woman has sex with her boss who offers a raise in pay or position?

    What is it called when a woman has sex with a drug dealer for a fix?

    What is it called when a woman has sex with a cop to get out of a ticket?

    What is it called when a woman has sex with a car salesman for a better deal?

    What is it called when a woman has sex with a movie producer for a part in a movie?

    What is it called when a woman has sex with a teacher for a better grade?

    If the above are not considered prostitution, what are they considered?

    11:05 pm on September 9th, 2009 39

    Lemmy for PREZ!!!!!

  • AD
    11:32 pm on September 9th, 2009 40

    These Flip whores are the ones that make it difficult for other Filipinas to get Visas to come visit Korea for legitimate reasons. Restrictions and scrutiny at the Korean racist F***k embassy in the Philippines for Filipina visitors is strict. But fake you are a singer with a front company pimp asshole you can come to Korea easy!

    The Korean Embassy in the Phils is promoting prostition to Korea…that is fact! Why the F**K do you think whores get visas faster than legit applications to Korea for vacation and sponsorships? It is all about money and the Korean mobsters and pimps in the Phils and in Korea trafficking these women and embassy personnel are all making money! It is a total scam and the Korean Govt here turns a blind eye to the dealings there at the embassy of Koreain the Phils! I know for fact that the Korean embassy workers get many kickbacks from the pimps here in Korea and Koreans in the Philis hiring these women!

    Koreans are racist assholes….PERIOD!

  • You Can't Handl
    1:03 am on September 10th, 2009 41

    Lemmy–wow from Mogadishu backwards to WWII—where the Soviets you quote enlisted thousands of female infantrymen who killed quite efficiently on the front lines.

    "bare hands fight to the death," is that an intelligence test? The only good fight is one where you put more bullets into the other guy first–hand to hand is when your plan turned to crap. And I've seen women first hand that can shoot. I've also seen some pretty sic combatives by women.

    I've also been there when a young service woman rucked 26 miles with a 45lb ruck in the New Mexico desert, dropping studs from all walks of Army life like the chumps they were, even though they had rucks 10lbs lighter.

    Regards you assumptions about my qualifications—been there done that.

    Gave the flags to the wives and made the notifications to next of kin.

    We've established that women are of no human value to you; that clearly establishes your lack of integrity to provide comment on the actions of anyone pursuing accountability in the slave trade.

    Guys like you just don't last in the military…and no it's not like it was 20 years ago–we are doing it better, with fewer people, older equipment and women in the ranks. Go figure…

  • gerry
    2:06 am on September 10th, 2009 42

    While stationed at Camp Red Cloud in the early 80s, everyone was required to attend a VD briefing at the theatre. After giving instructions on the proper use of a condom the lecturer mention that not all VD came from the girls in town. As an example he said one of the Military Police german shepards had an STD of the throat. From the back of the room someone asked "could you give the dogs name please?"

  • gerry
    2:19 am on September 10th, 2009 43

    When I first got married my wife told me "in Korea" marriage was a 70/30 proposition. Being young and liberal I explained to her that Americans believe its 50/50. I've been married 35 years now and my wife was right. And I am not going to give up my 30%.

  • tokyojesusfist
    4:38 am on September 10th, 2009 44

    People here say they are against trafficking but for legalizing prostitution. If you legalize prostitution it is infinitely harder to determine if a prostitute is a slave because the pimp/slave owner can just say that the prostitute is working of her own free will. Amsterdam has a _huge_ problem with trafficking.

    There are ways of preventing such things, but someone over there has clearly not bothered to do so. Their incompetence or lack of interest in the matter does not indicate that legalizing prostitution does not work.

    Finally it’s a moral issue. If you want a society where it’s the norm to pay for sex and to treat women as commodities then legalizing prostitution certainly is an avenue you should pursue. But that’s not the kind of society I’d ever want to be a part of.

    In your society women work as prostitutes anyway, except they have no legal protection and the industry is rife with violence, disease, trafficking and all kinds of other problems. All because you're arbitrarily uncomfortable with some women being comfortable doing prostitution.

  • Sonagi
    9:40 am on September 10th, 2009 45

    The average life expectancy gap between women and men in the US is about 7 years. We sure do appreciate you men dying off sooner and leaving us assets and more Social Security and pension funds. Thanks a lot! Sexual inequality is so unfair! :razz:

  • guitard
    11:34 am on September 10th, 2009 46

    I remember that briefing – it came complete with lots of pics depicting what a good case of VD could do to a penis.

  • ChickenHead
    11:42 am on September 10th, 2009 47

    Silly people.

    Being equal does not mean being the same.

    Mostly it is women that need to re-lean this… but sometimes men drink the feminist Cool-Aid and start judging women by the wrong benchmarks.

    The biggest flaw of feminism is that it holds women to the standard of men (e.g. killing with bare hands, aggressive business/social tactics, etc.) which the majority of women will never stand up to… therefore, it reinforces inferiority.

    As for the truth on the juicy girls, I'll write something on that when I have some time.

  • Marcus Ambrose
    11:58 am on September 10th, 2009 48

    Can't wait for chickenheads essay on the juicys……………

    I almost bought a shirt in Osan last weekend that said "I love my Juicy" LOL

    Where was I??? Oh yeah, agreeing with AD in post # 20. The Korean government doesn't give a damn, therefore endorsing the trafficking. The Korean businesses have far more filipina juicy's than are found in the American villes, they just don't get any attention because the 'short time' and 'love room' are accepted in their society.

  • gerry
    12:51 pm on September 10th, 2009 49

    Not to mention when the briefer used a garden rake and unroled a condom on the wooden handle. At first I thought it was kind of funny, until I looked around and saw so many of the young guys with bulging eyes that said "so thats how you do it".

  • gerry
    1:05 pm on September 10th, 2009 50

    Men and women have been playing "hide the salami" since before history was written. It isn't going to change. Men are men and women are women. One has needs the other has wants. No one should have to be forced into a position they don't want to be in, but the world is far away from the day when that will happen. Until then, there will be many doing what they can to survive and perhaps have a better life than the one they have had. Slavery and forced prostitution is a different subject altogether although the lines may sometimes blur. The majority is of free will.

    1:12 pm on September 10th, 2009 51

    Sonagi is American and so typical. No wonder hot to trot Juicy is the choice over American cow.

  • Retired GI
    2:43 pm on September 10th, 2009 52

    Yep. Sonagi shows us "why" the Juicy is the winner. Also that men and women have never been equal. Nor should they ever be thought to be.

    She also makes a nice statement about American Marriage.

  • Retired GI
    2:55 pm on September 10th, 2009 53

    "Queen for a year" was the term in the 80's & 90's.

    Even the fuglies had all the pipe they wanted.

    Clark Air Base and Subic in PI were the only locals I knew of where U.S. females

    were left to themselves.

    Ah, Angeles city.

    3:03 pm on September 10th, 2009 54

    Ahhhh…Angles city is right.

    where a man is a man, and a woman is a woman.

    One of GOD's last little pieces of paradise.

    BBW not allowed.

    4:56 pm on September 10th, 2009 55

    Take a look at the picture. a real "queen". Why do huge cows demand to be treated like a queen?

  • Junior
    7:02 pm on September 10th, 2009 56


    This is the New Truth. It must be obeyed.

    Are their juicy bars for chicks- where guys work and hustle drinks and …so forth?

  • Sonagi
    8:50 pm on September 10th, 2009 57

    The juicies can have you boys.

    10:06 pm on September 10th, 2009 58

    Sour grapes is an expression originating from the Aesop Fable The Fox and the Grapes. It always refers to an unattainable goal and human reaction to it. It can mean to deny desire for the unattainable item. More often, it refers to the nature of humans to rationalize why they wouldn't want it anyway. The phrase has come to be synonymous with bitterness in most modern contexts.

    MAN OH MAN!!!

  • Lemmy
    3:18 am on September 11th, 2009 59

    YCHTT, I'm speaking from experience where I continually see 80-90% of women lagging behind in unit runs, I endure the same amount of women continually on sick call, wearing tennis shoes, crying and whining everyday. The only Soldiers I've seen driving a car with a handicap license plate were women. next their pregnant and ducking out of a deployment or their getting an abortion or their some ham licker trying to dominate some cute little E4 who is escaping the sexual abuse dealt to them by their father and then using some squeaky voice sounding like a child and sticking out their chest and pouting like some 5 year old. Sure there are exceptions, I've seen some women who never complain and do a great job, stack on the door and push some wimp male out the door when he hesitated. Honestly though, I've never met a woman I couldn't beat the shit out of and then cut their head off. Because women quit when the going gets tough. Your comment about women in the Soviet infantry is mute because you have no idea what the hell your talking about. Besides, I know a lot of male Soldiers (notice I didn't say men) I would gladly kick out of the infantry and reassign them to some desk job. Neither do I adhere to your "trigger pulling mentality" of the Russian women because that's a lot of hog wash. All we have to do is look at eyewitness testimony that states Jessica Lynch cowered like a female dog when her convoy came under attack and that speaks volumes for women far and wide. I don't know what your job is, but I would bet money you are not in the infantry and in some worthless MOS like an MP or some water purification specialist. I say this is because of your lame comment about a 45 pound ruck. That is a comment some REMF would make. So don't waste my time trying to respond to me, because you have not been there and you have not done that, you simply read someone's account and try to play it like its yours. Rucking in the desert with a 45lb ruck, give me a break. 45lb ruck, I carried more than 45 lbs in batteries.

    Comments I've heard women Soldiers make while on active duty:

    1. I can't do PT because I'm having my period.

    2. Its too heavy.

    3. I'm cold.

    4. I have to go in and take a shower once a week.

    5. I can't go any further.

    6. I'm not going to lead my Soldiers because my friend is having an abortion and I have to go to the clinic with her.

    7. Will you carry my rucksack?

    8. I'll (perform fellatio on you) if you help me with land nav.

    9. Am I pretty?

    10. I quit!

    Of course the males in the Army are getting GD pedicures with the women in the 4-seasons on Yongsan. So WTF

  • ChickenHead
    7:41 am on September 11th, 2009 60

    I threw a hell of a party tonight.

    Wine, cheese, live jazz and drunk college girls.

    …and several people throwing up (on themselves or others).

    A party just isn't successful if there isn't someone throwing up in the Bucket. Yes, I keep the Bucket in the corner because it is better than the floor, easier to clean than the rim of the toilet and grand entertainment for everyone… and, face it, if everyone is sitting around nursing their drinks, the party sucks.

    I am on the wrong side of funked up right now… so, what better time to discuss jucies. Pardon me for random thoughts, incorrect spelling or non sequiturs that might follow. I'll try to keep everything orderly and coherent… but I'm sure I'll leave out a lot and the organization will be poor.

    Feel free to ask follow-up questions for clarification…

    …and, of course, I invite disagreement… so feel free to call me on anything you feel is incorrect and I will explain my thinking further.

    I hope I don't speak too much truth. The Armenians say, "Before you speak the truth, have one foot in the stirrup." That's good advice, you know.

    Here goes…

    There is a lot of speculation and argumentative conflict on the jucies…

    …mainly two lines of thought.

    "The precious little snowflakes were tricked into it!"


    "Dirty bitchees knew what they were getting into."

    …and the winner is…

    BOTH are right!


    Yes. It is true. Both are right.

    Some of the girls know exactly what they are getting into via the Bamboo Telegraph… and the hope it brings is better than their inevitable future… living in a grass hut on rented land with a Tanduay-gulping unemployed husband who is molesting roughly half of the 12.3 kids she vaginally vomits up in the first 12.3 multiplied by 9.1 months of marriage… plus the ones she had with sneaky uncles, devious brothers or tricky cousins when she was in her early-mid-teens.

    Surprisingly few (at least by their own admission) are "professionals" who got tired of 300 pound, 50 year-old abusive Germans three-holing them for roughly $10 a throw… or 3 dollars and 33.333 cents per hole… with no bonus for smacks or donkey punches. These are usually the older girls you see… who got replaced Back Home by the latest crop of fresh 16 year-olds from the Jungle.

    A majority (in my opinion, but it could be wrong because ALL JUCIES LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING) are told they will be entertainers by sincere-looking scouts or, worse, village girls who come back sporting the latest in fashion, cosmetics, gold jewelry, handyphone… and more pocket cash than their family makes in a year… and who will NEVER admit what they did to get it.

    "Oh, I just entertained a little bit."

    "Well, gosh… can I get a job like that?"

    "Sure." Because the recruiter gives me 500 pesos if I can sucker you into it… a thousand if you are a virgin… and unless you are forced to give a handjob to a country bumkin military cop who keeps screaming, "Whooz yer daddy?", you might be thinking you are better than me.

    There is nothing more that a Filipina likes to see than other Filipinas subjected to equal or greater misery… one of the great legacies of Spanish culture that has brought us other top national hits such as Columbia and Mexico. Go, Spain, go!

    And, as a bonus, provincial Filipinas are about as worldly as a manganese nodule lodged in a dark crevice in a slime-filled oceanic trench. They have NO hope and they don't see the butt-grinding coming…

    …and, depending on how you look at it, it might not be a real funking considering that no matter how much Ajashee rips them off for, they will still make more money than their whole family can make in the PI doing real work for long hours. Plus what they can steal from GI Joe on the side.

    Ajashee knows this, by the way, and uses this knowledge to set the girls' actual take-home pay… keeping the majority… less what he pays to his Good Neighbor, Colonel Hobnob on the golf course, to not notice the bad checks, ruined marriages, reduced productivity, etc., under his command… or the fact that he completely controls a bunch of girls living in one room that don't seem to have freedom of movement or association and perfectly fit the United Nations definition of Human Trafficking and Sexual Exploitation.

    Regardless, once the girls arrive at the juicy bar, they all get Ajuma's Juicy Orientation Class… and the majority of them become the pieces of shyte they are out of necessity or greed.

    Regardless of their personality or history or innate goodness and purity, they all quickly learn the power and rewards of "Sick Mothers Who Need an Operation", "I'm Looking For a Nice Guy" (which gives hope to the dull fat slug sitting in front of them buying juice as fast as their pocket will cough up money), "I Really Like You But I have To Go Sit With That Customer So I Don't Get Into Trouble" (to six guys at once), "I Was Tricked Into This Job" (so pity me with some cash and don't think I'm the whoore I have become)… etc, Etc, ETC.

    Understand the way it all works.

    The clubs get the majority of the take. They pay off certain members of USFK, and cozy up to others, to not notice open, obvious and easily-confirmable human trafficking, prostitution and sexual exploitation. They pay off the Korean police to not get involved.

    Recruiters make money off of getting the girls. Philippine and Korean government officials get a cut for making sure it all goes down smoothly. Everyone else from travel agencies to "training" schools get their part.

    …and GI Joe gets hope… expensive hope… but hope none-the-less…

    …because the places where you don't have to hope… you just need 7 to 10 juices worth of cash to get a girl who is doing her job willingly, are off-limits and ACTIVELY PATROLLED to insure they don't compete with the Good Neighbors.

    The clubs have so many ways to screw the girls over… from "fines" for every imaginable offense to inflated plane tickets to "rent" for the room they share with 14 other girls… that many girls don't really make much money unless they are busting their asss (in more ways than one)… or screwing over GI Joe. Some "nice" girls run with this.

    And, after Ajuma's Juicy Orientation Class and a bit of talking with the other girls, even the nicest and most innocent ones learn how to screw over GI Joe… and they do it out of necessity as the club is getting a big cut of their generated income.

    This gives the appearance that all the girls are PI hoes knowingly playing the game.

    But some are and some aren't.

    Then, even the nicest and most innocent girl gets told that the big, dumb-looking hillbilly in the corner with puke breath just paid her ticket… which means he gave the club several hundred dollars to have her delivered to his hotel room after town patrol walks by.

    Now, she can do it and collect her minority cut and hope that he falls for the old line, "First you cum with handjob"… or, maybe, she can get him so drunk that he will STFU and go to sleep.

    But she can't really refuse.

    Back In The Day, refusers got beaten until they were accepters. No longer, it seems. Now they get a choice. Go with the guy and get your little cut, find someone to take your place or refuse and get charged for the full cost of the barfine (which is Dad's pay for 2 months). Your choice, baby, because there is no human trafficking here.

    What can she do?

    She sells her pride, spread her legs, makes a few noises and, at the soonest possible time, she says, "I cum."

    …which translates into…

    "I have had all I can take and you had better cum and get off of me or I am going to have to fake some problem before your continued proximity makes me puke."

    This gets easier as the pride decreases and the lust for money increases and the Trick Box of How To Deal With Drunk And Horny GI gets more full.

    O.K. I have rambled enough. There is lots and lots and lots more to say about this… but this is enough for now.

    Questions? Comments?

  • Lemmy
    10:32 am on September 11th, 2009 61

    You should turn this into a stand-up comedy routine!

  • gerry
    12:24 pm on September 11th, 2009 62

    Ching Chuan Kang (CCK) in Taiwan, was another where US females couldn't get a date.

    On the other hand, I spent a year in Shemya Alaska and the count was 600 males and 46 US females. They behaved in the exact same manor as the males did in Taiwan. Each one (married or not) had several male friends. The biggest complaint from the women was not being able to sleep at night because of the boom, boom boom, of the bed in the room next door hitting the wall. A true example of equality.

    1:38 pm on September 11th, 2009 63

    Hearing a girl is a 3-holer, is sweet music to my ears. Western women are just too fat!!

  • Retired GI
    2:21 pm on September 11th, 2009 64

    CH; Once again — I'm impressed with your ability to put the facts into word.

    It would appear that you have nailed it.

    I will, yet again, land in the PI next week. I look forward to any futher comments you have. So give it up!

  • You Can't Handl
    4:32 pm on September 11th, 2009 65

    Paraphrasing—but some knowingly play the game and some don't. I don't care about the ones who know. But for the ones who don't and the fact that a lot of "official" people don't take action to help them, what do you suggest other than "it's not my problem?" Seen the bruises on the ones who "don't know," so the violence is still going on when they don't cooperate. Good summary, but no vector for how to make it better.

    I don't buy the "it's been that way for 50 years" or "when I was in 'Nam" excuses. That's quitter talk.

    It's been suggested to make bars that force juice quotas or even have Phillipinas in them to be off-limits–pros/cons to that.

    I am not advocating the battle with prostituion–could care less if the woman is there consensually with man; but when there is the organization of what you describe to force people into the trade, it is slavery, and that can not be tolerated by anyone wearing a US Uniform or formerly wearing a US Uniform or making their living off people in US Uniform.

  • Retired GI
    11:44 pm on September 11th, 2009 66

    YCHTT—I'm interested in what you would do to protect the (innocent third country girls that are "forced into slavery". Number one, the word slavery: incorrect useage of a word to invoke emotion. They are not bought and sold. But if it makes you feel better, please continue to use it incorrectly. The ones that might have been "tricked" into this life, I do have concern for. But I knew more than one that had their "bills" paid off, left the country and then returned the next year, working the same bar.

    You say you don't buy the, "it's been that way for 50 years"—Dude, Korea has only been importing them since around 97. That ain't 50 years.

    You also don't buy "when I was in the Nam" excuse. Dude, we are talking about korea number one. Number two, personel experience does not equal excuse.

    I spent nine years in korea. I saw the korean women/girls brought to the club to work by their parents, in return for a loan to put their Son thru college from Ajuma. I helped some with their english. That was the way of the day.

    I first visited the Philippines in 1989. Back then and now, the club life was a way to make money to help the family, or to find a husband—so he could help the family.

    You use words like slavery to define a very small % of women that were misled, and there by cheapen the word.

    What about the GI's that are misled into marriage with, like you, good intentions. Or those guys from the middle of no where on their first tour outside all that they know? That sweet young thing sees him coming a mile away, and empties his wallet nightly.

    In 1988, (back in the Nam) for you I guess, we got briefed by the chain on what the korean girls "jucies" job was, why they were doing it, what to watch out for, and so one. Not PC to do so these days.

    We also were warned about the children walkin beside the road. Something about the profit that could be made by a farmer with too many kids to feed, if a gi were to hit one of his kids while driving—but thats another story.

    But to end my rant: if you don't care about the ones that are knowingly playing the game—you have nothing to worry about. They all, sooner or later, knowingly, play the game.

    You want to blam someone? There is plenty to go around. But look high in the Command. Who stands to make the most money. It isn't the lonely GI.

    Korean Club owners and the military leadership (officers) that are in position to allow it to happen are makin the won, paso, bucks.

    Here are some ideas to make it better for those you worry so about.

    1. Town Patrol closes any and all bars with non korean or american women inside. Do this nightly—every night—365 days a year. It is a bit racist, but you want this. Not me.

    2. Close all the bars down range untill the TCG are gone and then check weekly. Remember, your causing these girls to lose money or worse yet have to do the same in Korean Bars.

    3. The old reliable curfew. Seems very unamerican to me, but it would make you happy. And the girls would lose money and wind up in the korean bars doing the same thing. STDs on base would go up also. they always did.

    4. My personel favorite; let's pull out of Korea. Our POTUS is starting one on one talks with the DPRK now. This could happen! He does want to say money you know. Eighth Army isn't cheap.

    Anyway, your innocent young sweet things will still be doing it in the korean bars. There is even a little korea town inside Angeles City PI.

  • gerry
    3:29 am on September 12th, 2009 67

    Where's "Nam"? Anywhere near Vietnam? Or further west?

  • You Can't Handl
    10:06 am on September 12th, 2009 68

    Why is it Town Patrol's job to get people to do the right thing?

    Why is it not the supervisor's job to set the standard and then for his troops to live up to it?

    I am digging the let's put 28,000 somewhere else. We aren't here for NK anyway; it's more of a China thing, and China has no vested interest in invading the U.S. or our way of life—they need us hooked up to the crack-pipe of easy finance and Wal-Mart. Just think if we could get those 28,000 Pen-based troops into the mix for OIF/OEF what that would do to help the poor bastards on their 3, 4, 5 tour in a real combat zone not have to do a 6th tour. Always believed the "normalization" push was to be able to tap the Pen for deployments.

    But back to the thread—as long as individuals can refer to the sage advice "that's the way it is here" you will have girls that are beaten/raped into the industry. Small numbers, big numbers–it's a moot argument. You lose credibility when you know it goes down but don't act on the knowledge.

    Read all the comments—nobody here is saying, "if only my 4-star had told me this was wrong, I'd of stopped paying for the importation of impressed sex-workers." Nobody here is saying, "I know it's wrong and I'm going to stop spending my cash in the bars that are part of the trafficking business." Every comment is geared at justifiying past and present whoring around, without accepting any personal judgement of their knowledge or participation in criminal activity. I'd be interested at the number of people justifying the trade but acknowledge that "some" are forced into the business have said that to their troops or their Battalion Commander? How many went downtown with their troops and their Battalion Commander and pointed to a bar and said, "stay out of there, they beat their girls or rape their girls?" Nah, the majority of them bash any comments that talk about anything other than running trains on teen-agers and how they find they are dateless and sex-less when approaching women with high-school diplomas or speak English as their primary language…..Somebody reply here about western women, money, fat girls, etc. –it's so fresh and exciting!

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    11:55 am on September 12th, 2009 69

    you will have girls that are beaten/raped into the industry

    Haven't read the thread, and don't plan to, but in cleaning out SPAM, I noticed this last one.

    I am probably in the same ballpark as the commenter, but on this quote: the facts are, rapes will happen no matter what. Period. Take Korea's top 3 "Ivy League" universities — list all the students and profs and administers over a 3 year period – then track all those people for 5 years — and then list all who end up being arrested for rape – or who do it without being reported or caught…

    You take that large a pool of people, you're going to have rapes. In Korea or the US. That doesn't excuse the act. It doesn't excuse the prostitution culture in Korea involving only Koreans or that connected to USFK. If I were king of the world, violent rapists would have their private parts removed and suffer regular torture for a period of years and then either be released or put out of their misery depending on the circumstances of the rape(s).

    I don't like the culture of prostitution involving USFK or the US military. I don't like the prostitution culture in Korea (or the US). I have religious and socio-ethical reasons why I feel that way. I don't like the fact Korean anti-US culture has some limited justification based on what finger they can point to base prostitution culture — or to put another way, I hate that the anti-US groups, teachers, and media can point to that aspect of USFK being in Korea, ignore prostitution culture among Koreans themselves, and illegitimately stoke and support anti-Americanism in Korea.

    But saying "Small numbers, big numbers–it’s a moot argument" is not right. Numbers matter in evaluating the problem. I don't care what group of people you are talking about.

    And lastly, "Why is it Town Patrol’s job to get people to do the right thing?" Policing in part is a process of encouraging people to do the right thing, and every society has to do that. Counting on the goodness of human nature on a large social scale —- is a very losing proposition.

  • JoeC
    1:04 pm on September 12th, 2009 70

    To summerize; a GI buys a third country national girl a $10 drink, he is sponsoring sexual slavery/human trafficking. Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah! When you but drugs, you're giving money to drug traffickers, who share it with terrorists, who use it to attack us.

    The old domino effect.

    How about, when you drink a beer, you are supporting an alcohol industry that results in thousands of highway deaths a year.

    Eat at a McDonalds and you are contributing to the billions of dollars of healthcare costs.

    Smoke cigarettes …?

    My point is, if I met a girl who told me she was being abused and forced into having sex against her will, I would report it in a minute. It's just that I haven't heard that in a long time. I am sure it's happening somewhere, every day, even in the good old U.S.A. But, I wouldn't suggest going Taliban and cloister all women under burquas to protect them from that possibility.

    The fact as I see it is most of these young women are OK doing what they are doing.

  • Leon LaPorte
    1:47 pm on September 12th, 2009 71

    Yeah, it seems there are some posters in here who also fell for the old "Don't Say No" D.A.R.E. bs as well.

  • Leon LaPorte
    1:57 pm on September 12th, 2009 72

    Whoops. "don't Say No" is a Billy Squier song. I meant "Just Say No". But they are the same era. ;)

    I'd also add that I notice when people want to prohibit a certain behavior, for whatever reason, and average Joe doesn't buy it, they come up with peripheral reasons why that behavior is "bad". (drug money funds terrorism) So do a lot of other behaviors, like buying oil. Let's stop that one first. :lol:

    Someone stated prostitution and human trafficking are the same. The why don't they just call it human trafficking (HT)? Why call it PHT? The answer is obvious, the two activities of themselves are not one and same.

    4:08 pm on September 12th, 2009 73

    [DELETED BY ADMIN - Personal attack]

    4:10 pm on September 12th, 2009 74

    Hi Dan, I think I know that girl. Can you post a picture?

  • mj4life
    7:13 pm on September 12th, 2009 75

    Regardless of how you feel about prostitution or even human trafficking it is disgusting that these Korean low lifes are exploiting girls from another country. I mean JFC – walk out the gate and you are in a GHETTO.

  • Lemmy
    7:24 pm on September 12th, 2009 76

    Businesses in that ghetto cater to soldiers from the ghetto.

    Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the system like it is. Compare it to annal intercourse. Not a lot of people talk about it when they go to church, but it still happens. The next time you are sitting in the pews, look around and try to figure and guess.

    8:05 pm on September 12th, 2009 77

    "Not a lot of people talk about it when they go to church, but it still happens"

    Not a lot, means a few right? so, you have friends that talk about annal intercourse at chruch? What kind fo church do you go to? Are the women all former juicies, or do they have huge a$$es, that can accomodate a toilet plunger?

  • usinkorea
    8:37 pm on September 12th, 2009 78

    Fine. Dismissing those ideas out of hand because some Bible thumpers or the like preach it is pretty dumb too, no?

    Drug sales help fund terrorism? Pretty incontrevertible, no?

    The sale of alcohol helps cause untold number of traffic fatalities around the world per year? Sounds like a pretty hard fact to me. People can throw me into the chorus of street preachers if they want to help deny those facts, but the facts are true. You can't wipe them away. — The questions societies have chosen to answer (in changing manner over time) is what to do about the facts: like raising the drinking age above 18 rather than banning alcohol altogether because banning it altogether failed miserable and the teens and younger people have statistically been the "devil may care" generations who drive like maniacs thinking nothing can happen to them and might tend to wrap their vehicles around and through the vehicles of others after slamming down a few legal drinks. Did raising the drinking age prevent young acoholics or prevent young drunk driving fatalities and accidents? Of course not. Did it cut down on at least the later part of that sentence? I'd think that would be a yes.

    The problem is — these issues and associated problems can't be dismissed as easily as any side in the argument would like….

  • usinkorea
    8:41 pm on September 12th, 2009 79

    Somebody who actually says no to drugs all the time isn't going to become a crack whore or addict. Another hard fact ridiculed from the instant it was spoken because of who it was spoken by….

  • Leon LaPorte
    9:08 pm on September 12th, 2009 80

    "Somebody who actually says no to drugs all the time isn’t going to become a crack whore or addict"

    Neither is everyone that says yes.

    I noticed you liked picking on the drugs thing funding terrorists. Ok, we agree. But you ignored the same argument about oil. I guarantee a more significant amount of terrorism funding comes from oil rather than by way of drugs.

    You'd find it would work better to educate people about things (sex, drugs etc) rather than banning them or demonizing them. The sheeple are smarter than you give them credit for. There will always be some you can't save.

    The 18 thing has been a tragic failure. The only reason it remains is states can't afford to lose the federal highway funds. Do you like being governed via coercion?

    18 year olds pay taxes, vote, are alowed to have children, marry, own guns and serve in the military yet they can't have a beer? Raise all the ages to 21 or lower them all to 18. Do it across the board. We have no room in our country for second class citizens, or Americans-lite. It is discrimination plain an simple no matter how well intentioned.

    "Another hard fact ridiculed from the instant it was spoken because of who it was spoken by…." – stupid is stupid, nuff said.

    9:23 pm on September 12th, 2009 81

    "stupid is stupid, nuff said."

    Leon you laid the SUPER smackdown.

    By the way, if you buy fuel for your car, you support terrorism according to Mr. Wackjacker's logic.

  • Leon LaPorte
    9:43 pm on September 12th, 2009 82

    That's correct. Same argument. Hell, breathing might support terrorism. ;)

  • Leon LaPorte
    9:44 pm on September 12th, 2009 83

    BTW we seem to have veered way off topic for this thread. :evil:

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    10:01 pm on September 12th, 2009 84

    But my point is largely missed…

    rather than banning them or demonizing them

    Why is it either/or and everyone else not on my side is a dumbass? What I was pointing out is that one side ridicules everybody who doesn't agree with them on points by throwing them into what is ultimately a default position for anyone who doesn't start agreeing with them in total right out of the gate.

    The point is there.

    Neither is everyone that says yes.

    Absolutely true and unavoidable information. So is the fact that nobody who even tries hard drugs will ever fall victim to one or more of them – period. But, "Just Say No" is instantly — and I mean instantly — dismissed for – what?

    stupid is stupid, nuff said.

    Nuff said? No. And I know after reading your comments for a long time you can do better than that and usually do. Why is it "Nuff said"? Explain in some detail why it is an absurd statement given the hard fact I've described….

    The facts of the simple sentence are irrefutable. We could argue about whether or not raising the drinking age has been a "tragic failure" – by looking at stats on drunk driving incidents and other clear, negative impacts on culture of alcohol – and discuss whether or not any actual drop in numbers justifies whatever "being governed via coercion" goes with raising the drinking age —– but tossing the argument out of hand with "nuff said" is for people like LordofE2…

    So is using "Do you like being governed via coercion?" to draw a discussion to an immediate end. Obviously every society on the face of the earth has some form of coercion. Raising the drinking age isn't the SS crashing down your door or the KGB grabbing you off the street in broad daylight because you said, "Stalin sucks!!" in a crowded room while you were drunk….

    Does oil money help fund terrorism? Sure does. Does the drug trade? Sure does. Does banning both make sense? Sure doesn't. Does ignoring either in terms of terrorist funding make sense? Sure doesn't. I know it makes people like LordofE2's head explode at the idea of sitting down to process complete thoughts and a range of ideas about pretty much any topic that doesn't involve him grabbing his genitalia and wacking away like a Rhesus Monkey, but society has always evolved throughout recorded history because most have crawled out of the sludge.

    It's hard to believe in one day here I've been arguing out two sides of my mouth — by saying the "talk for the sake of talking" crowd handling NK affairs and highly influencing them for a long time should shut up, because NK has proven that extended talks with it are useless —- and then by arguing against the "Nuff said" mentiality too common on all kinds of issues – where people like LordofE2 seem to think they have said something when they utter inane, idiotic comments like that in order to prevent their brains from considering an issue while deluding themselves they have actually said something about a topic….

    …..but I think what is coming out of both sides is working at the moment….

  • Leon LaPorte
    10:20 pm on September 12th, 2009 85

    We do actually see a lot of things the same way, perhaps just in different shades. The nuff said was lazy, true, but wasn't aimed at your comments, instead aimed at the elites who spout these slogans.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    10:32 pm on September 12th, 2009 86

    I agree. I am much more of a person's rights person over government power. For example, I absolutely detest places where the "neighborhood committee" can determine whether or not you can use color Christmas lights or how high your fence can be or what you put in your yard, and I'm not comfortable with some smoking bans, but I also don't like how the whole "Just Say No" think was used instantly (led by the institutional left)…

  • Retired GI
    12:30 am on September 13th, 2009 87

    I really enjoyed the ville outside most bases in the 80's and early 90's.

    Last time I saw one was in 2003. The change was remarkable. Ghetto might discribe it. I only know the charm was gone — along with the korean females.

    Philippinas are sweet in the Philippines. Never cared for the PI girls that were "imported" to Korea — by the Koreans. Last march I was in PI. Korean men were sometimes brave enough to venture out of "little korea town" and hit Field street. Most did not look comfortable. The girls never had a good word about them. Most saying they were cheap and unfriendly. Most of us, I think, know how koreans feel about non-koreans. After saying that, I can't wait to hear the cries of "but – but what about those dirty AMERICANS!". So go ahead. We all know that America is what's wrong in the world. That's why so many individuals immigrate there correct?

  • mj4life
    1:15 am on September 13th, 2009 88

    Ret GI, Just think; if the Korean Ville(s) were ghetto back in 2003 just think what they are now! That's right, they've sunk into sleazy dilapidated scum holes run by the lowest of Korean society. It's SHAMEFUL that young GIs are subjected to such filth, this just shows you what BOTH the Korean and U.S. governments think of them.

    Once again, SHAMEFUL and UNFORGIVABLE.

  • ChickenHead
    1:09 pm on September 13th, 2009 89

    On ROK Drop Weekly Linklets, there was "another take on the juicy girls system in Korea."

    Here is my post on the matter.


    Pretty good post… but maybe it missed a couple of key concepts that are worth pondering.

    Lacking time, I'll hit only on a few.

    Willing prostitution, coerced prostitution and forced prostitution are very different… although they are generally lumped together when this issue is discussed… mostly because it is hard to determine which is happening.

    If jucies gotta do what they gotta do, they would rather say, "You so handsome," than "I'm only doing this because Mama will hit me with a shoe and dock a month's pay if I refuse."

    Obviously, some of these types of prostitution relate to human trafficking more than others.

    Figuring out which type of prostitution is happening is not so easy.

    The truth is very elusive… as it is in everyone's interest to just let things ride… especially bar owners and their Good Neighbors, USFK leadership.

    Remeber, juicy girls LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING…

    …in this case, "I'm an innocent flower supporting a sick mother" gets more sympathy than, "I'm kinda forced to spend 2 nights a week with a drunk, sweaty GI (or an after-hours Korean)."

    …especially when, eventually, the follow-up question (to someone at sometime) is plotting to be, "When can we get married (so you can take me away from this hell)?"

    That doesn't fly if she has been running her mouth about how much sex she has been coerced or forced (or willingly) sold.

    Regardless of what happens, juicy girls, with rare exception, don't want to share these stories… they aren't so proud of them.

    Kinda like what happens in the PI when a girl in a micro skirt and leather go-go boots grinds around on stage all night… so you barfine her and she comes out of the back room in flip-flops, jeans and a t-shirt with her hair pulled back looking like the other 40 million girls on the street.

    Biitch, everyone knows you aren't a "regular girl"… now get back in there and put those damn boots back on.

    2. The system is designed so that the girls make very little money. At 20,000 won a drink, big money, even by Korean standards, is flowing into the system… but the girl's income is designed to be just enough to keep her almost happy by Philippine standards.

    Fair enough… as that is the nature of a free market… but the problem lies in the escalation of this system.

    First, keep in mind that, at least in Songtan, there is currently no problem buying a girl out of the clubs. I have a group of friends who do it almost every weekend (and rationalize it by saying Korean girls are too much work and equally expensive… idiots).

    So, how does it work?

    When a customer wants to pay a barfine (and I use the classical terminology here) the girl can "refuse"…

    …except she can't.

    Does anyone believe this statement has ever been uttered by a Korean juicy bar owner?

    "I'm so sorry, GI. She doesn't want to go with you. Here is your $300 back. Please come again."

    No. The girl gets a choice. Go… or pay the $300. That's a lot of money… to the point where she might wind up in manufactured "debt" to the club.

    …and that is human trafficking.

    …and that is the system which exists now that everyone is finding ways to rationalize, defend, spin, ignore, support and make excuses for.

    …and that is the system that everyone is confusing with a bunch of girls drinking and having fun and willingly picking up some extra cash if they like a guy.

    There is a lot more but you get the idea.

    1:28 pm on September 13th, 2009 90

    I said it before and I will say it again. When you hit the sweet spot, you will hear your juicy screeming “lisya butas” in pleasure. That is the money spot. Then you got to ride it out, like trying to tame a wild horse.

  • You Can't Handl
    7:03 pm on September 13th, 2009 91

    As you depicted the Songtan scene–spot on. Good job.

    Heard the guys who rationalize doing it every weekend, all they are trying to do is get one of their buddies to tell 'em it's okay so they can sleep at night…Kind of like the next post: Lordofe take it away!

  • Retired GI
    2:20 am on September 14th, 2009 92

    As you know, I spent many years in Korea, as a Soldier. Only a select few would extend in the 80's / 90's. Those that for one reason or another enjoyed it there. I was single and lived in a barracks room, stateside or overseas. The ville was fun also and I learned a little "hangul".

    It makes me feel sad that the GI's today would not be able to understand how it was back then.

    So, I say again, close down Korean U.S. Military bases. Get out and make the Koreans happy. If they want to deal with the DPRK on their own, I say "Let them".

    We pulled out of the Philippines. We can pull out of Korea.

    The Philippines is so much better off without our military at Subic and Clark these days ;-)

    I fly in 8 hours :grin:

  • Sonagi
    9:25 am on September 14th, 2009 93


    Yay or nay on legalization?

  • gerry
    11:24 am on September 14th, 2009 94

    Legalize, regulate and protect. Mandatory medical checks, with licensed participants. License renued annually based on clean record, income tax return. Police protection from abuse and illegal competition. Places of operation restricted and of known address. I.e. Nevada, USA.

  • Leon LaPorte
    12:29 pm on September 14th, 2009 95


    I just saw a ghost. Patrick Swayze is dead. Good night, not so good actor man. :cry:

    Definitely a sign I'm getting older….

  • Unsatisfied LG DACOM
    8:31 pm on September 19th, 2009 96

    Here's a letter to the S&S editors that his on a few points on P & HT.

    Stars and Stripes

    Letters to the Editor, Thursday, September 17, 2009

    I can think of a million reasons why “juicy bars” should be placed off-limits (“Thinly veiled propositions,” article, Sept. 8), but here are my top three:

    1. A major hit to human trafficking and prostitution. Who cares about the bar owners’ loss of revenue? Let them find a more honorable means of earning a living.

    2. We preach to the soldier to be fiscally responsible, yet we allow these establishments to exist. I don’t see the point of handing over $10 a pop just to “talk.” Let’s face it, while these establishments couldn’t care less where their next buck comes from, the primary targets are junior enlisted soldiers who can least afford to hand over that type of scratch.

    3. Spare the families back home from the shock when their 20-year-old son comes home with a 30-year-old pregnant wife in tow. The ladies know what they are doing, the young (and often immature) men have no idea what they just got themselves into. Your story references Camp Casey, South Korea, home of the “Stroller Brigade.” Do your research if you don’t know what that means.

    Bottom line: These morally corrupt establishments provide a service that is not in keeping with the Army core values. In fact, one could argue (and win) that juicy bars detrimentally affect the mission, but more importantly, the soldier.

    Maj. Pete Michael

    Camp Henry, South Korea

  • schmark
    1:12 am on September 20th, 2009 97

    Major Michael has many excellent points. I've said it over and over again; both the US and South Korean Governments do not care one iota about protecting young G.I.s in S. Korea.

  • gerry
    2:29 am on September 20th, 2009 98

    With all due respect to Maj Michael. Prostitutes have followed the movements of the military for thousands of years. Is it dishonorable for a young soldier to want female companionship while away from home? Should he be denied company of the same in the name of "morality"? (he should find a nice girl on post) Its absurd.

    WWII had hundreds of thousands of "War brides", do you believe they were all innocent farm girls met while the GI was at the local church?

    All camps and posts of any size have always had these women. The "unofficial" army policy has always been to control it and keep the population as clean as possible by working with local officials.

    As much as one would like to put "salt peter" into the mashed potatoes in the dining hall, and insure they all attend mass on sunday, it would only drive the single young men further away to do what they like to do most during their off time. Its a normal thing for a young male to want to do. Anyone who thinks "well it just shouldn't be allowed" is not thinking in realistic terms.

  • John
    7:31 am on September 20th, 2009 99

    Geez, we've gone full circle. First it was the poor exploited juicy girl. Now we must protect the young GIs from the juicy's.

    Lord save us all from the nanny state and do-gooders in this world. I'm not so willing to surrender my freedoms to whims of the bleeding hearts.

  • Retired GI
    8:07 am on September 20th, 2009 100

    I disagree Major.

    My nine years in Korea with Korean working girls (i'm single) in no way adversly effected my job performance. If anything, it gave me something to look forward to on the weekend.

    So you do not have an automatic win.

    What needs to be done in Korea these days, is have a newcomers briefing about the girls down range.

    Rather than ignore the issue (PC), except the situation does exist. Educate the soldiers!

    It is only natural for a man to want to lay some pipe to a willing young thing.

    I have seen a few that took it too far and married them—without understanding the situation. That is a problem.

    Oh, AC is really nice yet again. I made a friend yesterday. Her name is "Pinky". She said, "because I was so pink when I was born" :grin: Nineteen years old and working in the bars for seven months. Sweet girl. Nice smile, beautiful eyes and exceptional Susu. One older brother and a younger sister.

    What a comfort she is for this tired old Sergeant.

    Ran into an old friend who now lives here full time. Old Marine SM. It is sad that an enlisted man cannot retire in the states, on his military retirement check. Thank you for the Philippines and thailand.

    The working girls also thank you.

    Well, it is 0500. I think I'll shower, go eat and then check out the Doll house with some SMB.

  • Marcus Ambrose
    9:34 am on September 20th, 2009 101

    Indeed, even if weren't for the bars and young things, retiring in a warm country with a low cost of living is a great thing.

    Wish I could be at the Doll House with you. I kind of like Atlantis too.

    Back to topic: I agree with the post that says "don't ignore the problem, teach the young guys". On my first tour in 1989 we got the condom and STD speech at Camp Coiner. Now days the speech should include the dangers of entrapment and those heart rendering stories. These young soldiers think they are the hunters, but they are the prey. The chase and chase and chase, the next thing you know it is the young hunter that was caught. Oops.

  • ChickenHead
    9:38 am on September 20th, 2009 102

    Retired GI,

    You are speaking wisdom from a lost age.

    The system is now designed to take GI's money in exchange for only the HOPE of laying pipe.

    While pipe-laying exists, it is expensive and secretive to the point that much of the fun is gone.

    Comparing the PI, Thailand and decades-ago Korea with the current refined and protected scam existing in the villes is like comparing Napoleon III truffles with day-old dog turds left in the sun on the tar roof of a fish cannery.


    I'm in agreement with more freedom and less nanny state.

    And that is the problem here.

    Affordable and sincere prostitution is shut down and, in the case of glass houses, actively patrolled by the nanny state to insure the juicy monopoly is protected.

    The girls are exploited, the GIs are scammed with empty promises…and club owners are the only winners… except for what cash filters back to base to insure the system stays the way it is.

    The system that currently exists is designed to provide the minimum amount of visible prostitution yet bring in the maximum amount of cash with a business model that only works through unethical and illegal actions.

    USFK is fully aware of this yet encourages it with only occasional fake "crackdowns" to show something is "being done".

  • Pete
    7:17 pm on September 20th, 2009 103

    Gerry, I agree with you that "Chicol Ville" was probably, one of the best assignments I ever had. The first time I was there was in response to the Pueblo Crisis. Had to come over from Yokota AB, (Fussa-mach), Japan. Back in those days Fussa actually had a "bar row" packed with bars and Japanese women. But the "buy me drink" thing was pushed but if you worked at it you could have a Japanese girlfriend if you willing to treat her right. Now, in Korea there were the 12 bars Gerry alluded to, the Romance Club, Aragon Club, OB House, Stereo Club (I was there when the street level club opened in Sept 68), Aloha Club, Carnegi(sp?) Club, Arriang Club, 5 Spot, Lucky Club, Mayflower Club, My House, and Papa Joes, We "Skivvy Niners" also went to "Mom's Macholi(sp?) house in Aragon Alley. About all you could drink were OB, Crown Beer in the Clubs (the Whiskey bars came later), and Oscars Champange, Soju, and Macholi in other smaller, mostly off limits, bars. And Gerry was right again. Each of these bars was stuffed with gorgeous women for reasonable rates. I made under $200 a pay day back then. Some would get a small percentage of for drinks but in the early days, the drinks, weren't hustled. When the bar closed right before curfew, if you hadn't made arrangements with a girl earlier, you could take your pick of any other girl in the place and more often then not they were will willing to go with you. If you standing at the bar nursing that last drink, you guaranteed to get hit up with at least a half dozen proposals. If you had to work the evening shift that day, you catch a taxi of the kimchi smoker bus and make to a club before midnight and still grab a girl before the 12 midnight curfews. The OB house and the Romance were my favorite spots for these arrangements. There were also Mamasans on the streets willing to take you to their houses of ill-repute for shorter arrangements. The girls in the bars charged $5.00 for a short time and $10.00 for an all nighter. The real challange was trying to get some of girls that worked behind the counter. A very few were impossible, but some charged a highter fee. I was luckey enough to have been stationed PCS or TDY to Japan, Korea, Taiwan, the PI, Vietnam, Thailand, Guam, and Australia from 66-90. And when I was young it was heaven. Yes, I was amoral and managed to get into all kinds of trouble, but I wouldn't have traded any of my ville experiences for what the poor young serviceman has to put up with today.

  • Retired GI
    1:14 am on September 21st, 2009 104

    So true. So true.

    (I like Atlantis also) Spent early afternoon at voodoo.

  • gerry
    11:03 am on September 21st, 2009 105

    Yes, OB House, Stereo Club, Arragon alley, Romance club etc. I always felt Taiwan had the best of the best though. All you could eat mongolian BBQ $2. Bought a new car for $3000, sold it 2 years later for $3000. Gas was .19 a gallon on base. The worst looking girl was beautiful, and from there it only got better. Had 3 different steadys while I was there and loved all three.

    If you were Skivvy 9 in Japan, the PI, and Thailand from 66-90, then most likely you knew my brother. He worked at those places.(fishbowl). LOL, small world. For that matter I may have met you in Japan, if you're talking Misawa. In Misawa it was called AP alley, with about 15 or so bars. Especialy Ninas bar. 250 yen (.75) for a Saporro or Kirin. Nina was known for lifting up her leg and placing it on the bar. (no underwear). At the airmans club on friday nites Japanese groups would sing "Ham down your head Tom Durry". With strippers at the club on occasion. Beer at the skivvy 9 club was .10 a glass. Used to get groups in from the PI that would rock the club with their shows. Never heard a better rendition of "baby won't you light my fire" than the one the Phillippinos did. Even better than the original I think.

    I do have a problem relating to most of the comments I'm reading because they do not mirror what I remember at all. Yes, I do feel sorry for the guys stationed there now. Seems like the ladies club has taken over whats acceptable for entertaining the troops.

  • theotherguy
    12:58 pm on September 21st, 2009 106

    I never believed prohibition worked to any extent. Certain shady things will always be done, usually the best thing you can do is monitor / regulate it to prevent horrid conditions.

    I agree with Gerry, legalize it then regulate / tax / police it. That would immediately get the Mofia (the REAL owners of most of the business bars / room salons) to be very careful how they handle their business.

  • theotherguy
    1:20 pm on September 21st, 2009 107

    This is one of the few times that I agree with CH. The current juicy system is designed to take the soldiers money but provide nothing in return. Just a girl who will tell you the same thing over and over again.

    At least the room salon / hostess bar / massage parlor girls are honest and upfront with whats going on. Of course you gotta know some Korean, or even some older Korean guys to get the good places.

    But seriously, why would anyone want to mess with the ville? Local college's provide hordes of young Korean girls who are curious and willing to explore things. You just gotta learn some local language and how to integrate into the culture a bit.

  • Pete
    6:43 pm on September 21st, 2009 108

    Gerry, it was good to see your response to my reply. I have to agree that the girls in Taiwan were totally gorgeous too. I was stationed at Shu Lin Kou AS in Taipei from 74 to 77. Unfortunately my second favorite president of all time, Jimmy Carter, got us kicked out of Taiwan and I was forced to PCS back to Clark AB for a second time. Check out and scroll all the way to the bottom and check out "Linkou Navel Security Group – Delta Section Circa 1970 thru 1973". Quite a few good pictures here of your typical bar girl beauty. Only made it to the CCK bar row once with a buddy and needless to say I got too "piefaced" to remember anything. I did go TDY to Misawa a couple of times and of course worked on the hill there. Our unit hung out at the Toy and Trick bars and I remember the Relax and Black Pearl and Flora's standup bar. Don't remember the bar you were talking about but certainly drank enough Kirin and my favorite Sapporro there and while I was PCS to Yokota 67-69. And those PI bands were good, when I first went to the PI in 66 Chit and the D'Madisons and the Surfin Browns were very good, and then there was the "Dirty Dozen" bar district. Forgot to mention to you that I also spent 8 years at Kadena and overall that was the worst place. Regards.

  • ChickenHead
    10:18 pm on September 21st, 2009 109

    Gerry, Pete…

    Your generation had it made in so many ways.

    I don't know when it peaked but it seems like the world has been going downhill since 2000 in every aspect… be it rehashed music, stupid fashions, mediocre car designs, unwatchable movies (mostly remakes and sequels), charisma-less actors, notorious rather than famous celebrities, unfunny comedians… you name it… and that was just culture… we could talk for hours about politics and society.

    I can go on and on in detail if anyone disagrees.

    And, what's worse…

    As crappy as things are now, today will be tomorrow's golden age where life was simple, the air was clean and pusssy was cheap.

  • gerry
    2:32 am on September 22nd, 2009 110

    Thanks for the memories. I have listed your web site on my favorites so I can spend some time going over all that is posted. I thought the menu from the club was great. (I remember the prices being low, but as I grow older I think "they couldn't have been that low". My memory has been refreshed. Thank you.) I do remember the 63 Club and it being voted the best. It truely was.

    I remember the OK bar very well as my first girlfriend (Fan Show Ying) worked there. She moved with me to CCK and we stayed together for about six months.

    I only passed thru Okinawa a few times, yet one of the best floor shows I ever saw was at the "Millionaire"(?) club in downtown Naha(?). It was before the island reverted back to Japanese control and had a fairly wild nightlife.

    My brother was a frequent customer at Toys and the Trick bars in Misawa. The only ones I really remember are the Top Hat and the Fuji club, yet I hit them all frequently.

    I still have a number of pictures from that time, but they are stuffed in an old shoe box somewhere.

    Again thanks for the memories.

  • gerry
    3:01 am on September 22nd, 2009 111

    Yes, there's nothing like a little war to bring out the benifits and tributes from our Congressmen. Unfortunatly they had to pick Iraq and Afganistan for our current battles. Also no fun for the troops. Hopefully the next war they pick will be in South America.

  • Retired GI
    11:01 am on September 25th, 2009 112

    Frank—it works in vegas.

    While not officially "legal" in angeles city, it none the less works here also.

    My point is this—you are wrong.

    You want to go after the "johns" :roll:

    Well thanks Frank—what did I ever do to you?

    Besides, that has never worked—either. So your wrong—again.

    Not everyone wants to be married Frank.

    Lets think about something—if it were not for sex, your wife would not be your wife. If your lucky she might be your best friend—if your lucky.

    MARRIAGE is dangerous for a man! Divorce rate in the miliary is around 75%. Civilians is around 50%.

    If your a man in those failed marriages, now you have to pay—to a woman your not sleeping with. She gets the house and the car and you get to PAY.

    Being a "John" is much safer.

    It is THE most honest relationship a man can have with a woman. He states what he wants. She says yes or no. If yes, she tells him how much she wants for the service. John goes home. No fighting or misunderstandings. No hair in your face in the morning or knees in your gut during the night.

    You want to go after me because I don't want to marry but I do want to pay for sex. I don't think I like you Frank.

    In closing Frank: all men pay for sex. Even you. One way or the other.

    Maby you ask for it from the wife untill she gets tired of hearing it and gives in, or you find some sweet thing and pay the going rate.

    If your a man, you pay, and thats ok.

    Here in AC, you don't pay too much ;-)

  • snllover
    7:05 pm on October 4th, 2009 113

    Obviously this Stars & Stripes reader isn't too happy with the Human Trafficking around the Osan Ville. I wonder if the Osan leaders pay any attention to gripes like this?

  • JoeC
    7:53 pm on October 4th, 2009 114

    His comment in his message said it all for me, "These young men join the military and I’m sure they and their families expect that, in return for their dedication to service, their leaders will take care of them."

    The military used to be a right of passage to turn boys into men. These days, some expect it to be a coddling nanny service to protect parents kids from the vices of the world.

    One of the most important lessons men must learn in life is how to deal with women and the games they play. What better place to learn that than in a juicy bar?

    Think about it as a training exercise.

  • ChickenHead
    10:40 pm on October 4th, 2009 115


    You are right and you are wrong.

    "The military used to be a right of passage to turn boys into men. These days, some expect it to be a coddling nanny service to protect parents kids from the vices of the world."

    Right! But, such is the reality in a Zero Tolerance World… where everybody is special and everyone is a winner and every member of the Village is responsible for protecting the precious snowflakes' from any form of perceived failure at the expense of long-term life lessons.

    "One of the most important lessons men must learn in life is how to deal with women and the games they play. What better place to learn that than in a juicy bar?"

    Wrong… well, half-wrong… well… no… right. But missing a key point.

    Men must certainly learn how to deal with women. But juicy girls are like Real Girls ™ in the same way a tiger is like a cat. There are similarities… but if you apply many of the lessons learned from one on the other, it likely will result in Epic Failure… well… unless you hang with the really wrong type of Real Girl ™.

    Never-the-less, your point is good… except there is something you missed.

    Back In The Day, the military offered this thing… what was it called… uh… oh, yeah… "leadership".

    When E-nothing Billy-Bob Dumbarse stumbled out the main gate for the first time in Asia, mouth agape with wonder at the short skirts and flashing neon, Sergeant Halftrack took Billy-Bob out to get sh!tfaced and showed him the real deal first-hand… kinda like a parent having an honest talk with their kids about drugs and alcohol and porn and sex and guns.

    Now-a-days, Sergeant Deskchair must pretend there is nothing going on in the Ville or it will draw attention from Colonel Powerpoint who, for whatever reason, is ignoring what is going on in the Ville… and sometimes subtly encouraging it… and what is going on is mostly Private Dumbarse getting the shaft.

    Poor Private Dumbarse arrives in Korea and, instead of Guidance By Example from "leadership", he learns the Facts of Life from some almost equally life-inexperienced dummy who showed up a few months earlier and considers himself a Playa'… 'cause the girls told him so every time he tossed ten bucks their way.

    And, like an ignored kid learning about the world from TV and the oily hoods who smoke behind the gym and talk a lot of smack, everyone wonders why GI Dumbarse is all screwed up… with the obvious solution being more Management Through Babying.

    There is a difference between parenting and babying. There is a difference between leadership and management.

    Today's military "leadership", and many of today's parents, don't grasp these concepts.

    12:12 am on October 5th, 2009 116

    The juicy has a special cream between her legs that is necter of the gods. Suckle that cream once and its better then crack or Christ (just kidding on the Christ).

  • guitard
    12:23 am on October 5th, 2009 117

    The cream about which you speak is leftover jizz from the three guys she banged last night.

    Suckle it all you want.

  • theotherguy
    1:58 pm on October 5th, 2009 118

    Hmm twice on the same subject…

    CH's perfectly on point in this regard. There was a time when leadership would take their Joe's out on the town and show them how to do it right without fcking it up for everyone else. Problem is now if a Leader does that then its seen as them "glamorizing alcohol" and being a bad influence. NCO's have to be near perfect innocent captain-america poster-boy examples of morals (the exact morals change depending on who's doing the judging).

    When I got to SK in 03 I was a young SPC at the time. My SGT grabbed my a$$ on the 2nd weekend here and brought me out drinking and whatnot for the evening. Showed me the places to go and who not to fck with and how to have a good time without pissing off the locals. Several years later when I was a SGT I would do that with my young troopers. The company CO was a born-again christian female who thought ANYONE drinking was a bad idea. Basically first line supervisors were not allowed to be seen in the same bar / club as their juniors, and she's make a point to visit all the common ones to try to catch people.

    I thought that was bad, but later after my pinned my rocker on it got worse (different unit). Then it was the senior leadership (O6+) harping that leaders needed to set an example and not drink … at all. Not even mention drinking or partying, and in no way shape or form should we encourage it amongst the juniors. It was like this taboo… we all knew where to go and what was going on just .. we couldn't talk about it. Got to the point that all the NCO's would talk to each other and "know" the places the juniors wouldn't go, so that's were we went.

    So don't place the blame on junior leadership. It fall's squarely on the way senior command deals with "having fun". They would prefer to enforce the belief that soldiers shouldn't drink, party, dance, date, have sex, or smoke (check out recent talk about banning it). That all soldiers should go to church on sunday and what not. Today's Army is highly politicized, what used to only go on at the upper ranks has been moved all the way down to PVT Joe level.

  • ChickenHead
    1:01 am on October 7th, 2009 119



    GI Joe is going to drink if it is glamorized and GI Joe is going to drink if it is illegal.

    The difference is… does leadership want him drinking openly to have a good time in the non-problem-causing way he has been trained (conditioned by leadership) or do they want him sneaking around and using alcohol to escape the problems of real life.

  • P. Hughes
    2:32 pm on October 17th, 2009 120

    Don't forger adout Kunsan AFB, Tagu & Kwang Ju. Spent 69 – 70 & 71 – 72 in Korea. Remember Kunsan and A Town?

    Is it still there? Kwang Ju K57 had Connies there. I miss those days. Ever drink maklee?

    4:55 pm on October 17th, 2009 121

    Now with the gays taking over the military with their gay agenda, you will have to find all the gay spots and show them the gay lifestyle.

  • Larry David
    5:58 pm on October 17th, 2009 122

    Hearing the stories of what the scene was like in Korea back in the day is pretty depressing compared to what I witness there just a year and half ago. In a lot of clubs the girls really are marginal at best. Drinks are extremely over-priced at $20 a piece, and a lot of young GIs will get nothing or next to nothing after having handed over $500 (or more) in one evening. The situation now at Camp Casey is really one where the soldiers are way more exploited than the women.

  • Avatar of GI KoreaGI Korea
    10:41 pm on October 17th, 2009 123

    If you are wondering about what is going on with A-Town, here you go:

    11:03 pm on October 17th, 2009 124

    The one in the pink is definity a "3 holer".

    That is just the kind me likes. :)

  • Jacob Lee
    2:01 am on November 16th, 2009 125

    This is photo from my mother. I am looking my father Tom.

    Please see:

    Someone had taken pictures of Mom Jon and Dad Tom in OK bar (near to CCK) in 1968 or 1969. As I know; My Dad Tom he serving in 50th Airlift Squadron (Red Devils) in CCK. ^^

    Unfortunately, we lost contact with Tom since 1970. So if there is someone knows Tom, please leave me a message, Thank you.

    By the way; My Mom just told me his favorite song is Hey Jude – The Beatles.

    God bless!

    You may contact with me through Facebook below:

    Facebook | CCK Air Base Taichung


    My Personal:

  • Jacob Lee
    2:19 am on November 16th, 2009 126

    Dear Gerry

    This is Jacob Lee from Taiwan. I got some infomation from this website and interest your memories in CCK, specially OK Bar at Taichung.

    I am looking for my father Tom and there is his picture with my Mom Jon around 1968 or 69. Someone had taken pictures of them in OK Bar. Unfortunately, we lost contact with Tom since 1970.

    If you know any information about Tom, please drop me a message, Thank you and God Bless.

    Facebook : CCK Air Base Taichung Taiwan

    My Personal Facebook:

    Sincerely yours,

    Jacob Lee

  • anthony
    3:14 am on April 24th, 2010 127


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  • mrxskull
    5:11 am on May 2nd, 2010 128

    "I don’t know when it peaked but it seems like the world has been going downhill since 2000 in every aspect… be it rehashed music, stupid fashions, mediocre car designs, unwatchable movies (mostly remakes and sequels), charisma-less actors, notorious rather than famous celebrities, unfunny comedians… you name it… and that was just culture… we could talk for hours about politics and society. "

    Replace the year 2000 with the year 1975 and I'll be more inclned to agree with you.

  • Ebony
    3:14 pm on October 4th, 2010 129

    If GI's are all as disgusting and deperate as you all are, no wonder they have to pay for sex. I haven't met a woman yet who would be a prostitute of her own free will. Unless she has severe physcological problems or is being forced/coerced. I hope there are better men out there than you all. You make me sick talking about another human being like this. what if it were your daughter or your sister or mother someone was talking like that about?! Don't you have a heart for hurting people??? Doens't it matter that many of the younger girls are TOO young and have been forced to allow men to hurt them and handle them??? By the way you talk, you have no shame or conscience. What a sad world to raise children in. I hope none of you ever have children.

  • Tom Langley
    4:03 pm on October 4th, 2010 130

    Just leave the poor GI's alone. When you work hard day in & day out on occasion when your 18-25 you want to go and get drunk & get laid. Send MP's or CID or Korean police to the bars to see if there are any girls being 'trafficked' and if there are then put the bar owners in prison. Otherwise just leave the GI's alone. I can't believe the prices that these girls are charging now, I think they ought to have an investigation of that but if the GI & the juicy girl & the bar owner are in agreement then fine. When I was in Korea in '79-'80 all the girls were Korean and the cost was $10 for a 'short time' & $20 for an 'overnight' and it was a little cheaper just before payday. You didn't need to go to a bar to buy a girl some juice to drink, you just went to a 'business girl', gave her (or ajima) the money. You didn't have to listen to the girl talking a whole bunch of Bravo Sierra about something you could care less about, you just got right to the meat & potatoes.

  • ChickenHead
    4:30 pm on October 4th, 2010 131

    "I haven’t met a woman yet who would be a prostitute of her own free will."

    I believe you, Ebony…

    …but perhaps you need to hang out with more prostitutes before you solidify your bold opinion on the matter.

    If you do, you will meet some girls who are basically imprisoned and some girls who got tricked into crippling manufactured debt and have little choice.

    You will also meet girls who don't want to be dirt-poor, some who thrive on attention, some who are too lazy for a real job, some who support a drug addiction and some who see it as a way to get those fancy clothes and designer bags they lust after.

    These girls do it because the reward is worth the sacrifice… just like everybody else who, mostly against their own free will, has to drag their arse out of bed every morning and trudge off to work.

    Also, before making any blanket statement, there is a HUGE difference in situations and motivations for prostitution in different countries and different cultures.

    …more on that if you are interested.

  • Retired GI
    1:55 am on October 5th, 2010 132

    Ebony, I agree with ChickenHead. I believe you when you say that.

    Let me help you with your education. Take a trip to Thailand or the Philippines.

    They are like Korea was in the 70/80s. Pretty little things that will do or say almost anything.

    Everyone is looking for a "nut". What that nut is depends on their needs.

    I myself would have enjoyed being a pro football running back. Wasn't going to happen. I was a LineBacker in High School only.

    I wanted to see the World. I would have loved to have done it in my own personal Jet. Wasn't going to happen. So I joined the Army and spent 11 of 20 years in other countries.

    If you're a poor girl that wants a better life than Mommy and Daddy have, you go looking for it the best you can. Most fail. Some have success. That's life.

    I have more respect for Miss Min in Korea than I do for most of the regular American women I have known. She made her money on her back, but she made alot of it and saved it. In 91 she Married a Korean Man that obviously did not know what she had been doing for the past 4 years or more. I'm sure he never knew she had close to six figures in the bank either. (I should have married her myself)

    Every dollar, won and paso I spent on one of these girls did more to help her than all of your outrage.

    "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." Theodore Roosevelt.

    Now, go tell the woman that pays for you to take you out for supper/dinner.

  • Tom
    2:09 am on October 5th, 2010 133

    "Every dollar, won and paso I spent on one of these girls did more to help her than all of your outrage."

    So you're proud that you bought yourself a girl? :lol: Let me guess, you were also married, and had a wife and children back in the states. That's why you couldn't marry her. :lol:

  • Retired GI
    4:06 am on October 5th, 2010 134

    Tom, as a ChiCom you should know that you can only "rent" a woman. Proud? I had fun and she got Paid. Pride as nothing to do with a trip to the Candy store. :lol:

    As for the personal life, I'm thinkin about getting married to this sweet thing I've known since 2008. Never been married. :cool:

    Thanks for your interest :grin:

    How about you? Spank that monkey lately? ;-)

  • Tom
    4:11 am on October 5th, 2010 135

    "How about you? Spank that monkey lately?"

    Why? I'm spanking it now, as I write this to you with my left hand! :lol:

  • Retired GI
    4:19 am on October 5th, 2010 136

    Damn! I'm flattered Tom. I had no idea you felt that way about me! :shock:

  • Tom
    4:31 am on October 5th, 2010 137

    Will you marry me? :lol:

  • Retired GI
    4:59 am on October 5th, 2010 138

    If you're a "three holer", I'll consider helping you with your college money needs. ;-)

    Done it many times with Korean women. :grin:

    Now we know. Tom is really a hot ChiCom babe. And she likes old white guys! :grin:

    I guess those PX privileges really are important.

  • ChickenHead
    4:17 pm on October 5th, 2010 139

    Tom and Retired GI,

    It is great to such warm love between two men showing their sensitive sides and expressing their sincere feelings of mutual masculine attraction.

    I want the Internet streaming video rights.

    Oh, wait… looks like someone already beat me to them.

    very, Very, VERY NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

  • Retired GI
    11:42 pm on October 5th, 2010 140

    Tom is a ChiCom female.

    Don't let the name fool you ChickenHead.

    If she is a "three Holer" she is a special ChiCom female.

    That or he/she has a strange Fetish, comment 135 and 137.

  • Tom
    11:56 pm on October 5th, 2010 141

    #139, Chickenhead, which one is Tom and which one is Retired GI?

    I'd like to think I'm the one who's ramming. :lol:

  • Tom Langley
    3:08 pm on October 6th, 2010 142

    Chickenhead #139 Question: How do you separate the men from the boys in San Francisco? Answer: With a crowbar!

  • ChickenHead
    3:38 pm on October 6th, 2010 143

    Tom Langley,

    "Question: How do you separate the men from the boys in San Francisco? Answer: With a crowbar!"

    Hmmm… I thought the answer was:

    Rub down with a bottle of baby oil and a hand full of Crisco and wiggle in between them while humming show tunes!

  • Tom Langley
    2:46 pm on October 8th, 2010 144

    Chickenhead #143 The mental image of your comment almost made me lose my lunch, lol.

  • Dunwoody Garage Door
    6:14 pm on January 9th, 2011 145

    Your great blog is just worth a read if anyone results in it. Im lucky i did so because now Ive got a whole new view of this. I didnt realise that the issue was so important and so universal. You definitely stuff it in perspective for people, thanks for the awesome info.

  • caleb
    10:21 pm on May 21st, 2011 146

    @ Lemmy.. I also was infantry 2005-2009. I think you are correct that men and women are different. Physically and hormone wise… However the value of the a womans life is the same as the value of a mans. I also agree that the role of women in the military is at times frustrating for an infantry soldier. And personally i believe that largely the type of woman that the military attracts for some reason or another tend to be pretty pathetic.. HOwever, i believe as an infantry soldier i can not escape the biased that we come from.. Also lemmy you say that you will never treat females as your equal.. The shame is you will never get more from a girl than the level of respect you have for one.. I dont respect all women, just woman that are respectable.. However you have let a few encounters jade your opinion of the entire female persuasion.. A shame the most you can hope for from a woman is an orgasm… Good luck. Also i have now moved back to korea as a civilian with my wife.. There are lots of bars that have men who cater to woman.. Hell woman can order coffee and have it delivered to them for 20 bucks by a guy who will stay and chat for an hr and if they want more than just a chat they pay extra. It does go both ways in korea.. Also I would suggest for military people if their looking for a “good time” go outside of the camp area.. Theres a reason you dont see KOreans in the ville.. Their are much better places to go.. And i know their are clubs that dont welcome military, but im not talking about those.. Even though im no longer military i refuse to go to a place that doesnt serve military. I also dont believe being stationed in the military in a country makes you an expert on that country. In fact most military people stationed in Korea dont really ever see and experience what korea is really like.. Anthropologists say you have to be totally immersed in a culture for seven years to understand it.. And believe me being in the army keeps you from immersing in any culture except the military culture.. SO dont think being stationed in korea makes one an expert.. I learned more about korea living their as a civilian for one month than i did the year i was stationed there..

  • Jerrell Monges
    8:28 am on October 21st, 2011 147

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  • Felipa Meidlinger
    7:51 pm on November 6th, 2011 148

    very useful article. thank you so much

  • Aerok
    1:40 am on January 13th, 2012 149

    저 지금 굉장히 Stripes Korea 에 감정이 좋지 않습니다
    권영훈씨가 저희에게 광고문제로접근 하여 350만원 해당에 스폰을받아가고약속 했던 게 저희 라이벌업체 잉크홀릭과광고가겹치지않는 것 이였습니다
    그 조건으로 저희한테 350만원 해당에 스폰을받아가고 또 저희 손님들에 연락 데이터를 드렸습니다
    그러고얼마뒤 잉크홀릭에 광고를 내주고
    또 저화손님들에게 까지 잉크홀릭에 광고를하는걸보게됐고
    권영훈씨에게 350만원 을 다시 되돌려받으려고 하는 중입니다 만약그렇지않으면 무슨일이있어도 법적 소송을 걸어서라도 받아 낼 생각입니다
    350만원은 상품권이었고 개인적으로 현금을 권영훈에게 직접준건 250만원 입니다 저화직원들이 술자리에서 또 술집 관계자
    도 돈을건네는걸보았습니다 권영훈씨는 그 당시 Stars & stripes Korea 이용하여 저한테 돈을 받아갔기 때문에 전 Stars & stripes Korea 또 책임이있다고생각함니다
    저한테 돌려줘야하는돈은 총 600만원 정도입니다 술갑식때까지따진다면 더하지만 저가똥발받다생각하구 600만원만청구합니다
    저는 문제삼으려하는게정말없습니다 하지만 저희 개인고객들까지 잉크홀릭을 홍보한다는 건 저희는용납못합니다
    잉크홀릭은 저희를수년제 카피하고 상도독을지키안는 몹상식한업체입니다
    권영훈씨가 빠른시간않에 정리해주지 않으면 전 모든걸고소할생각입니다 부대 안에 갤러리 개약권까지 발킬껍니다
    사람을이용하는건절때안니지요 미국이었다면 이런 일이 있을수잇을까요 ???

  • Filipina
    12:07 pm on June 13th, 2012 150

    Oh My!!! I was planning to work in Korea; I didn’t know that there’s a possibility that I could end up a Prostitute!!

    Thanks for this article. I would have been despised and looked down by those men who think they are so PERFECT if I ended up becoming the-so-called “whore”. :cry:

  • Seoul Guy
    3:19 pm on June 13th, 2012 151

    Watch out for brokers. Scope out the country first before you do anything.

  • Leon LaPorte
    4:10 pm on June 13th, 2012 152

    150. So what are you now?

  • Barack
    7:08 pm on June 13th, 2012 153

    Must be a confuzed GI with “the-so-called “whore” drinky girl wife!

    Whats that old saying….”You can’t turn a whore into a house wife”, but you can spend millions getting her whole entire family to the land of the big PX!!!!!!!!

    My philosophy is “Take from them everything and tip them NOTHING!” AND “Leave Ya Where I Found Ya, Cause I Am Actually Paying You To Leave Not Stay And Cudle!” :twisted:

    1:10 am on June 14th, 2012 154

    good question; but why do you want to know? lol kidding.. ^ ^

    I’m an English teacher to Korean students.. ;-)

  • BullWhacker
    4:58 pm on December 6th, 2013 155



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