By Did anyone get to see the F-35 at the recent Seoul Air Show?:
The Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] F-35 Lightning II program is the only fighter program delivering 5th generation capabilities internationally, a Lockheed Martin executive said Tuesday at the Seoul Air Show.
“The F-35′s 5th generation capabilities, including Very Low Observable stealth, integrated sensor fusion, net-enabled operations and advanced sustainment, make it the premiere fighter of the future,” said Stephen O’Bryan, vice president of F-35 Business Development and Customer Engagement. “The F-35 is the only multi-role fighter designed for survivability in the highest-threat environments, and it provides superior capability at comparable 4th generation fighter costs.”
The theme of O’Bryan’s presentation, “Global Partners Building Global Security,” reflects the high level of international participation and cooperation on the Joint Strike Fighter program. The F-35 will replace more than 13 aircraft types and enable allies to conduct seamless, integrated operations. Throughout its lifecycle, the F-35 will create enduring industrial relationships, from the production and global delivery systems to worldwide operation and support via Autonomic Logistics Global Sustainment (ALGS). [Defence Professionals]
4:08 pm on October 28th, 2009 1
Did it do an aerial demonstration?
Earlier this summer, I happened across the Air Force Thunderbirds air show schedule and they were set for a two day performance at Osan. That obviously changed sometime after, and they instead did a show at K-16 in the time they had originally scheduled for Osan. Putting two and two minus one together, I now wonder of the sudden funding cut for the F-22 didn't get Lockheed Martin and the Air Force to decide to make a greater push to sell more F-35's. A bigger, flashier presentation might be the result of that.
Sometime around 1981 I believe, the USAF first flew F-15's into Korea. I had heard they were due but I wasn't particularly interested. I had worked on a range of fighters at that point and once you've seen a few, you'd seen them all. I happened to be on my apartment balcony the day they flew to Osan and I felt like I was watching a UFO. One might have been less than a 1000 feet from me. It seemed to be moving in slow motion without making much sound. Fighters were supposed to be loud fire breathing machines, but this thing was able to fly at a very slow cruise speed with barely audible engine noise.
Later that day or the next, there was a fleet of black VIP sedans lined up near the Osan flight line. It seemed like a large part of the ROKAF ministry was there to view an F-15 solo demonstration. Again it showed off it's slow speed pass and a range of other speeds and maneuvers, including a extremely tight turn circle over a small part of the runway. Another first for me that day was seeing and aircraft point its nose straight up and actually accelerate into a true vertical climb until it disappeared into a point in the sky. The first time I saw what could be done with greater thrust to weight ratio. When it reappeared, it seemed to fall straight down without any sound. I was anticipation a mishap, but somewhere around 1000 to 2000 feet, it rotated, leveled off, lit the afterburner, accelerated dramatically across the runway and into another climb.
I could only imagine the impact that demonstration had on the ROKAF dignitaries that day. The we-gotta-have-some-of-them-babies memos must have been going out everywhere. Of course, F-15 weren't acquired 'til much later, but the F-16's they got first had many of those performance features.
So I had to wonder if the F-35 was or is able to put on such an impacting display today.
4:33 pm on October 28th, 2009 2
I suspect the answer may be 'yes'. Dog and pony shows always excite the politico. But its real worth is in the stealth, radar, and senser fusion, that cannot be evaluated from watching it fly at speeds and distances that are not relevant.
10:24 pm on October 28th, 2009 3
I didn't read any where if it flew or not at the Seoul Air Show but at other air shows I have been to the F-35 was also on the ground with a ladder next to it for people to look into the cockpit. The internal flight controls were always covered up though.
10:59 pm on October 28th, 2009 4
I worked with the X-35/X32 fly off at Edwards early in the program. It was an amazing fighter to see outrun the F-16B chase aircraft on test missions. Watching the X-35B prototype conduct vertical landings was a crazy sight. I was at the Seoul Airshow in 2007 and they had the mock-up there so I assume that it was the same for 2009.
9:36 am on October 29th, 2009 5
There was a fighter doing a demonstration while I was walking into the grounds. The F-35 was also the only fighter (besides 10 black Eagles) parked in the fenced off area for the demo aircraft. So, could have been that, but I am only 80% sure.
10:35 am on October 29th, 2009 6
I'd give my big toe to see one in flight. I've followed much of its developement on the net along with the F-22. Both are superb aircraft. Some of the vids I have seen on it's radar capabilities and sensor fusion are very futuristic. I can't imagine what its 'true' capabilities could be, as those bits of information that have been released are incredible in themselves.
1:59 pm on October 29th, 2009 7
I personally think Lockheed Martin and partners may have gone out of their way to convince the military and politicians they were buying two distinct aircraft with the F-22 and F-35, even though that is what the Air Force said they wanted.
Technology wise, I think they both could be easily adapted to using any of the systems and weapons designed for the other.
The F-22's big selling point was its unmatched flying performance capabilities to maintain air superiority. But that's a hard sell when the Air Force hadn't had any real competition for air superiority in some time. And, the current and future weapon systems promise to engage and defeat the enemy before he even knows he is in a fight. If it comes down to dog fighting then many things must have already failed.
I might add to the other topic that combat smart, extreme performance UAV's that can do things that would crush any man in the cockpit, may be the real air superiority threat of the future.
11:00 am on October 31st, 2009 8
Fighting the last war or the current war only, has been pushed hard by SecDef Gates. Future programs have been drastically slashed, cut, delayed, or dropped, so we can fight the current war. The military budget has been cut by $55 billion, while the country flushes a trillion dollars down the toilet for things like "cash for clunkers".
The thinking is why do we need a F-22 when we're fighting the taliban. I can think of at least 6 or 7 current places where wars could start in the near future where very sophisticated SAMs and radar guided AA would be major obstacles, not to mention high tech aircraft with very high tech missles as well. Firing their very deadly missles from 50-100 miles away.
Systems such as the F-22 or F-35 take years of developement but are worth their weight in gold when the going gets tough. Systems like these cannot be built as they were in WWII in six months. The F-22s and F-35 big selling points are their stealth and very high tech avionics, not their dogfighting capabilities.
UAVs that can operate in combat are years away from developement and they have less to do with how many "Gs" a pilot or aircraft can do, than at what distance can an enemy aircraft or target be "positively identified" while flying at 3 times the speed of sound, before firing. (If you're in a dogfight in todays world, something has gone terrible wrong already).
The F-22 air superiority fighter and F-35 are two very different aircraft for two very different purposes. They can be interchange to only a certain extent.