By Lee Ha-won from the Chosun Ilbo has a couple of suggestions for President Obama to see when he visits South Korea which does not include any where near the level of events that the President had organized for the Japanese and Chinese legs of his journey:
Hopefully, even his busy itinerary will allow him to see two things in Korea. First, since he thinks the Korean automobile market is closed, let him watch the foreign cars that throng the streets of Seoul, the car parks of hotels, and the European car dealerships scattered around Seoul. Perhaps he will, have a chance to meet some Koreans in person and listen to their views about the foreign cars they want to buy. (…………)
And if he takes a helicopter at the USFK base in Yongsan, he could be at the truce village of Panmunjom in the demilitarized zone within half an hour. Could he not deliver a historic speech, much as former president Ronald Reagan did in front of the Berlin Wall in 1987?
Or instead, a meeting with North Korean refugees who have settled down in the South would also be significant. If he met them, he would be able to recall former World Bank president Paul Wolfowitz’s suggestion that the “Indochinese model” that accommodated a host of refugees in the 1970s be applied to North Korean refugees. [Chosun Ilbo]
Yes most Koreans that are looking at buying a foreign car would rather buy a European and even Japanese brand before buying American because of the perception of poor quality American cars. There is also many more foreign cars on the roads now a days in Korea compared to recent years. However, the President is constrained by his auto union supporters and thus what the reality on the ground is doesn’t matter, the political reality back in the US is more important for him. So expect no action on the car front.
As far as a Reagan like speech at the DMZ I hope he does give one, but I doubt he will. As far as North Korean human rights, just ask the family of Reverend Kim Dong-shik what Obama thinks of that.
So in other words don’ expect much out of the President’s trip to Korea, just be happy he stopped by.
10:19 am on November 18th, 2009 1
The first thing B. Hussain o’Bama should see Lee Myung Bak’s zipper when he bows. Because bowing is a very old traditional greeting is Korea and he will only show respect!!
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12:48 pm on November 18th, 2009 2
Top Things Obama Should See in Korea
(These are just off the top of my head without any deep though so I may get some flack… It won’t hurt my feelings if you make a good case that I am mistaken.)
An efficient airport staffed with friendly and helpful workers with excellent public transportation to and from all population centers across the nation.
A society where all members, regardless of class or regional affiliation, hope for the success of their country and are willing to make personal sacrifices if necessary.
An easy and efficient recycling program that is supported by the vast majority of the population.
A government that encourages national unity rather than one which demonizes patriotism, discourages unifying nationalism and attempts to divide the population so as to play groups off against each other for short-term political gain.
A society that doesn’t glamorize ghetto and thug cultures and doesn’t continuously try to rationalize how they are valuable contributions to “diversity”.
A clean, safe, efficient and reasonably-priced national bus and rail system as well as fantastic public transportation in even the smallest towns.
A culture of fame that stigmatized poor behavior rather than rewarding it to the point where notoriety becomes more marketable than ability and talent.
A school culture that respects how many math problems are correct on par with how well one can throw a ball.
A society which generally rewards ability rather than creating arbitrary quotas to appease vocal minorities which have found it easier to get ahead by complaining than by working hard or correcting cultural flaws that are counter to success.
A society where the citizens generally don’t steal, destroy or spray paint every piece of public property that isn’t guarded, fenced off or locked down.
A government that is generally interested in the public good and is willing to use the best parts of pragmatic socialiism for the benefit of its citizens without falling into the ideological trap that it is an answer to all problems.
A police force that isn’t proudly militarized and doesn’t treat all citizens with default hostility as if they are drug dealers or terrorists.
A society where a small business can be started for very little money and a minimum of government interference.
A nation with a president that doesn’t bow to the emperor of Japan.
A government that tolerates special interest groups to demonstrate but almost always follows the will of the majority and the best interests of the country.
Demonstrators and sports fans who don’t loot, burn and overturn everything in their path.
A society that respects get-rich-quick but realized the true key to lasting success is education.
A semi-legal prostitution industry not filled with junkies and crackheads.
A medical system where small problems can be treated for a reasonable price (even without insurance) before they become big problems.
Schoolgirls in short skirts… yeah, baby!
A society where even the poorest people are not revoltingly filthy in their living conditions and lifestyle… and where those who have to take public money are not “empowered” to the point where they are proud to be taking advantage of the system.
A society where the man who fills the ATM machine opens it up, sets his suitcase full of money on the ground next to him and puts handfulls of bills into the machine with his back to the crowd.
Really complete cellphone coverage.
A society where an angry man cuts off his finger or shaves his head rather than shooting up a public place.
Car companies that are seriously committed to producing and selling high quality cars rather than simply grifting the government out of money to keep the scam going another 6 months.
A nation where a man who grows up as a poor child, becomes a lawyer, runs a campaign based on emotion and ideology, becomes a cult figure to young voters, appeases his nation’s enemies and oversees a stagnant economy, has the decency to commit suicide at the first opportunity.
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November 18th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
But junkies and crackheads are hot!
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November 18th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
I like your list, but I think you’re off on a few of them. Like South Korean society not glamorizing thug cultures.
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November 18th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
schoolgirls in short skirts
I love the list.
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November 18th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
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November 18th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
Well said, CH.
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November 18th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
I was so intrigued by your list, ChickenHead, that I wrote a huge line-by-line response, but it was way too long, so I turned it into a post here.
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November 19th, 2009 at 5:59 am
This is good….
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November 19th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
To the list I would add:
Restaurants, cafeterias, and homes where minimally processed foods from fresh, local ingredients are served to people whose weight falls within a healthy range.
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3:07 pm on November 18th, 2009 3
Really?? Where is this utopia that you speak of?? I would love to go there!! It cannot be the place I have been living in for the past 4 years. It sounds more like a misguided rambling that completly ignores the realities and flaws of this place. At the end of the day Korea will always maintain its place in the world an expanding economic power in Asia that the rest of the world can give two shits about. At the end of the day America is still America and will continue to have contries like Korea riding their tails to fail or success.
I will switch it up with a question. Do Koreans not know they need America to succeed for their country to succeed?? Dont you people know that. That you have an American market based economy!! Dont you know that??Thats not even talking about the defense that is needed here. I have never been to a place where the level of Anit-Americanism was so counter productive. Not only do Korean bite the hand that feeds figuratively they bite the hand that is almost quite literally been feeding them for over half a century. Propaganda here is amazing Obama should take some notes on that and learn how we can get everbody in America thinking quite literally the same thing on almost every subject. Its almost laughable.
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3:24 pm on November 18th, 2009 4
How about a nation that allows a biracial person to become president?
A country where it’s ok to “buy korean” and not be branded evil for it.
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November 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Once again, JohnT lives in some kind of a fifth dimension world. Nobody cares in Korea if they buy foreign goods or not. How come Koreans are buying Toyota Camry’s left right and center, right now? Camry’s are $34,000, and Sonata’s are $30,000 – only a four thousand dollar difference. That’s only because Camry’s are inherently more expensive, the Yen is stronger, and Camry’s are 2500 CC engine vs Sonata’s 2000 CC engine. So if the Japanese can sell their cars by marketing their cars to Koreans, and the Germans are selling their cars by marketing theirs to Koreans, what the hell is America’s problem? It is just plain old arrogance that Koreans should be FORCED to buy American cars, doesn’t matter what Koreans want. It’s always about what Americans think what the rest of the world should act according to America.
America wanted to Korea drop their tariffs for the tariff to go through, fine Korea dropped it. America wanted K
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November 19th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Once again Tom is slinging BS. Tom, most koreans like you think everything korea is better than anywhere else. Korean apples are better than American ones. Korean movies are the best etc… I know, I taught korean adults for years and had to listen to your peoples bullshit.
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November 19th, 2009 at 9:02 am
A korean telling a non-korean they live in the fifth dimension! Now that’s irony!
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November 19th, 2009 at 10:39 am
JohnT,
You really need to spend some time out of the shigol…
5:30 pm on November 18th, 2009 5
he needs to go back home and stop screwing up the parking and traffic in this country!!!
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November 20th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Nope, just stopped putting up with shit from koreans because of where I’m from, especially from gyopo draft dodgers and ungrateful, nationalistic koreans.
Koreans don’t like it when their shit gets thrown back at them do they. Tom proves it.
Don’t like, too bad.
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8:40 pm on November 18th, 2009 6
“Like South Korean society not glamorizing thug cultures.”
Yeah… it does seem like that is happening more and more in the entertainment industry. On the other hand, the average Korean girl still is turned off by the actions and attitude of thug culture… and Koreans are too interested in going to SNU and working for Samsung for ghetto culture to become too mainstream. And, the Korean version of thug culture could be labeled Thug Light in comparison to what is accepted, and even championed, in the US.
“Where is this utopia that you speak of??”
There is no utopia. These are just some things Obama should see… as, until Diversity and Tolerance came along, America frequently took the winning parts of other cultures and left the drek. Correcting many of the things on this list would certainly strengthen America.
Another list of what Korea can learn from America can easily be made… but that makes this list no less valid… and to deny that makes one part of the problem.
“A country where it’s ok to “buy korean” and not be branded evil for it.”
I would say that is a social strength and not a weakness. Contrast the success of that strategy with the government giving out money it doesn’t have so its citizens can run out and buy Chinese electronics and Japanese cars.
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November 18th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I agreed with most of your earlier list. The thug part particularly is true. In the US it is considered a valid life goal for a black person to rob a store, rape a girl (if not a few more), shoot a few people, get sent to prison, then get out and go right back to that life style while making music about it. Cause “its a thug thing yo”. In any other country you would be shunned and cast out of society for doing something like that. Most everyone would teach their children to “not be that guy”. In the US we have use the TV to teach out children, and the TV say’s that its cool to be that way cause you get out of school (who needs education) and get to have lots of sex and drugs and do whatever you want. No wonder our society is so screwed up.
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8:47 pm on November 18th, 2009 7
Tom wrote:
How come Koreans are buying Toyota Camry’s left right and center, right now?
It’s actually anti-Japanese sentiment that drives up sales of Japanese cars in South Korea.
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9:11 pm on November 18th, 2009 8
I agree the DMZ is the place to visit.
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10:00 pm on November 18th, 2009 9
US citizens who are no longer US citizens because they have been determined by CCK as “Ordinary Residents” of Korea.
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November 18th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Actually I’ve got word that the people responsible for those “reinterpretations” have since either left the country or are no longer in a position to effect the decision. Doesn’t mute the damage they caused while there, but I seriously doubt we’ll be having anymore issues on this matter.
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10:44 pm on November 18th, 2009 10
I’ve already mentioned on a few previous entries the reason for low amounts of foreign cars over here. Only those with money can afford a new foreign car for various reasons. Owning a foreign car is considered a status symbol of a successful / wealthy person for a reason.
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8:59 am on November 19th, 2009 11
The fact is to “buy korean” is patriotic. In the US it’s isolationist.
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November 19th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
In the US some call it isolationist.
Ford, GM, and Chrysler have each run patriotism-oriented “Buy American” advertising campaigns in the not distant past.
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8:49 pm on November 19th, 2009 12
I thought one of the reasons foreign cars were more difficult to sell was higher “registration tax.” Not the actual car sales price per se.
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8:53 pm on November 19th, 2009 13
There’s a progressively higher registration fee based on, among other things, larger engine displacement. It is aimed at reducing energy consumption and pollution and applies to all cars — Korean, Japanese, European, American — but since American offerings tend to have larger engines, it hits them harder.
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November 19th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
And the Americans are faulting Koreans for their own lack of insight. Amazing.
And with all the talk of “dishonest Korean media”, American media has never once mentioned or explained this tax which does not discriminate based on nationality of the cars.
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November 20th, 2009 at 1:22 am
A warning: That’s the major tax as far as I’m aware, and it’s entirely possible that there’s some other tax I don’t know about. I haven’t bought any cars in Korea recently.
In the past there were taxes and bond issues that amounted to a 100% tariff — even on used cars — but that was long ago. Those bad old days are over and you can get a Macintosh for 10% or 20% more than in the US, not 100% more.
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7:14 am on November 20th, 2009 14
Hey Tom, where did I mention cars in my post?! Tom proves my point.
Mention “buy American” and non-Americans, or at least koreans, freak out.
Mention selling American rice in korea and koreans take to the streets!
Mention selling korean cars in America and Americans..?
Thanks for proving my point though Tom, you’re a typical “I want my cake and eat it too korean” you are.
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9:49 am on November 20th, 2009 15
ChickenHead:
Are you Korean? Do you live in Seoul?
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11:17 am on November 20th, 2009 16
ChickenHead:
I’ll make a good case that none of your points are valid, as you can’t compare a nearly homogenous (religion and race) country, the size of Illinois, with the U.S. Any comparisons you make would have to account for these vast differences, which you don’t. It’s an irrelevant list, which any economist, statistician, etc. could easily tell you.
But, if we want to compare quality of living, let’s compare available statistics for Illinois and S. Korea. They have the same violent crime rate and S. Korea actually has a higher percentage of people living below its poverty line, and all of these rates are higher than the U.S. national average. And this is using available statistics for Korea, which we know are not accurate, since Korea purposely hides and distorts it’s national figures to give Korea “face.” Sooo….your opinions don’t make fact.
My thoughts are that you’re not Korean, but rather a bitter ex-pat who grew up in the suburbs, and went to Korea to teach English? Let me know how close I am, because I’m confused on how the education system failed you enough to not know how to do a proper competitive analysis.
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November 20th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
I love it when FNG’s show up
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November 20th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
IveGotQuestions
You wrote:
‘you can’t compare a nearly homogenous (religion and race) country, the size of Illinois, with the U.S. Any comparisons you make would have to account for these vast differences, which you don’t.’
But then you also wrote:
‘let’s compare available statistics for Illinois and S. Korea.’
So you can’t compare the United States to Korea, but you can compare Korea to Illinois based on nothing but geographical size? What about population density?
Illinois 12,901,563 http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17000.html
South Korea 48,606,787
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2800.htm
I’m sure that affects crime. Heck I think country of more then 48 million would most certainly have more problems then a single state in union of fifty that you happen pick out on a whim. Iceland with their 800,000 people actually blows away both South Korean and Illinois when it comes to standard of living or crime level. But you wouldn’t want to trade places with them right now. Can you guess why? Instead of lashing out at someone elses educational background, perhaps you should put your pokeman cards away and work on thinking before you type.
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November 21st, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Welcome Ivegotquestions
“Sooo….your opinions don’t make fact.”
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you’re criticizing the man’s opinions as not factual?
What exactly do you mean?
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12:06 am on November 21st, 2009 17
IveGotQuestions,
Oh dear… that was hateful.
You might be right, though. Let’s look.
“I’ll make a good case that none of your points are valid, as you can’t compare a nearly homogenous (religion and race) country, the size of Illinois, with the U.S. Any comparisons you make would have to account for these vast differences, which you don’t.”
There was no comparison. There was simply a quick list of things I feel are better in Korea than America.
Many of these problems can be traced back to the “diversity” of special interest groups looking for immediate gain rather than a unified population willing to make small short-term sacrifices for the benefit of the nation and eventual long-term personal gains.
Homogeneous religion or race should have no effect on such things as rude airport staff, idolization of asinine entertainers, the safety of ATM workers or the need to burn and loot when your team loses… or wins… or draws. These, and most others on the list, reflect poor subset of American culture that, instead of being publicly condemned, has been tolerated… or in some cases, championed in the name of diversity.
…but I’ll hold further comment until after you “make a good case that none of your points are valid”.
“It’s an irrelevant list, which any economist, statistician, etc. could easily tell you.”
Fire away. Kushibo did a very nice job of clearly and logically agreeing and disagreeing with specific aspects of the list point-by-point. Feel free to do the same. The worst that can happen is I can/will stomp on you if I think you are stupidly wrong.
“But, if we want to compare quality of living, let’s compare available statistics for Illinois and S. Korea.”
Buttercup, there was no comparison in my list. There are all sorts of things in which America excels over Korea… but this list is of what Korea does better than America.
But we can compare if that’s what you really, really, really want.
“They have the same violent crime rate and S. Korea actually has a higher percentage of people living below its poverty line, and all of these rates are higher than the U.S. national average.”
Riiiight… Illinois has the same violent crime rate as Korea? A quick check of the Internet indicates that Chicago (510) had about half as many murders as Korea (955) did last year… that would be Chicago, population 3 million… Korea, 48 million. Other crimes match the same pattern.
As for living standard, we can make some observations.
The poorest of the poor in Korea don’t have yards full of rusty appliances and piles of trash with a pack of mangy dogs running in and out of the sagging trailer while 6 kids run around with snotty noses and no pants.
That vision repeats from the hills of Kentucky to the Indian reservations of the Southwest.
I have never seen that in Korea. I have seen square miles of it in the USA.
It is not about poverty level statistics… it is about poor aspects of a failed culture and a system that reinforces these behaviors instead of letting them die a natural death.
Go to welfare housing and look at the filthy way the people live… despite statistically having more money than Koreans.
“And this is using available statistics for Korea, which we know are not accurate, since Korea purposely hides and distorts it’s national figures to give Korea “face.””
That could be. On the other hand, having lived both places, I have formed a pretty strong opinion about which country has less crime and which country has fewer people living, intentionally or otherwise, like animals.
“Sooo….your opinions don’t make fact.”
Probably not… but my pocket in Korea always has a couple hundred in cash rather than a pistol as in the States… so it’s fact enough for me.
“My thoughts are that you’re not Korean, but rather a bitter ex-pat who grew up in the suburbs, and went to Korea to teach English?”
Not bitter… irritated. I see America socially and financially spiraling down needlessly because everybody is too worried about the wrong things and too proud to address real problems… or even admit they exist.
To add to this, I see Korea, despite unlimited Korean pride, identifying and rapidly improving many of its national faults.
“Let me know how close I am, because I’m confused on how the education system failed you enough to not know how to do a proper competitive analysis.”
A “proper competitive analysis” was not necessary. Are you sure you chose your words correctly? Korea is not a competitor in relation to this list.
“Ha! Our airport staff is ruder and more petty than yours!” “You Korean pusssies don’t know how to murder crack dealers for their stash like we do!” “Yee-hee! We win!”
If you disagree with any points on the list and feel that America is doing it correctly and Korea’s method is wrong, speak up.
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1:31 am on November 21st, 2009 18
The President of Korea more than likely does bow to the emperor of Japan- that is how they do formal greetings here.
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3:09 am on November 21st, 2009 19
Valid rebuttal, although I stand by firmly that you are in fact making comparisons, even if you don’t recognize it as such. I’ll comment on a few of your points specifically, as requested…
“A society where all members, regardless of class or regional affiliation, hope for the success of their country and are willing to make personal sacrifices if necessary”
Perhaps it should be “a society of members guilted and shamed into making personal sacrifices for the benefit of others and accepting their status in society, as unhappiness is something to be born in their culture as the general state of life, i.e. han.
“A government that encourages national unity rather than one which demonizes patriotism, discourages unifying nationalism and attempts to divide the population so as to play groups off against each other for short-term political gain.”
For the America commentary, I agree that parties are played off each other, but disagree that patriotism is demonized. Rather the very things that defined a patriot (speaking out against things that you believe are wrong even if it goes against the powerful for the sake of bettering your country) are now being demonized as certain groups are attempting to redefine the word to their own purposes.
For the Korean commentary, it should really mention that it doesn’t have a sense of nationalism, but a false sense of nationalism, as Korean children are 1) taught that Korea/Koreans invented thousands of things that they definitely did not; 2) that everything Korean is better than another country’s version, as a fact, i.e. Korean apples are better than American apples. Both of these cultural methods of building nationalism, only build it artificially, and this is dangerous. And it should be mentioned that for a country apparently so proud of being Korean, the minute people have money, they spend it on foreign luxury goods (to show their status, the same reason as “thug” culture does) and plastic surgery. If you live there, then you would know how hard it is to find a middle/upper class girl who hasn’t had eye lid surgery to look more western.
I don’t disagree with some of your criticisms of America, although I think that many of your points refer to a very small subset of society, which doesn’t at all generally reflect America. For example, the majority of America doesn’t glamorize ghetto/thug culture, a small subset does. But those that do are either coming from those places and seeing anyone rise above it, logically imbues a sense of pride or so far removed from any sense of danger or challenge in their comfy lives that they like the fantasy. Yes, it’s not good, but neither is all the born-rich, worthless kids who never do anything of value (The Hills), who get way more publicity and are far more imitated in society. At least the thug glamorizers are creating music.
And I disagree that Korea doesn’t glamorize “thug culture” as they are completely enamored of our most thug-like celebrities (hello, horrible, imitation thug Korean hip-hop). Also, there is a Korean thug culture, it’s just mafia culture, and it’s so mainstreamed in government and business that it’s hard to notice it as idolized.
As for your praise of Korea, there of course are things that they do right. Hell yes they have better airports and better airline staff. America has some of the worst airlines, period. Korean airline stewardesses are a revelation. But, being an airline stewardess is a competitive, good job for a woman in Korea because you have to be educated (multi-lingual) and beautiful (which is everything in Korean society). Same with airport staff, as they have to be multi-lingual/educated as well. Unfortunately these jobs aren’t great jobs for people in America, like it was in the ’70’s, as they don’t pay well and garner no respect in society, so you’re not going to have high competition for it and won’t have people as jazzed about doing it.
But perhaps you would have had me with you if you hadn’t gotten completely off-topic and ruined your arguments with the last silly point, which showed you to have been creating an elaborate cover to vent your frustration and scape goat it all on the back of someone not responsible for any of it. Not a single point you made had any relevance to our current president, but could in fact all have been criticisms made last year, 2 years ago, 10 years ago. Obama has been president less than a year and inherited our country in a shit state rarely achieved in our history. I’m actually not on board with him yet, but in fact our senate, house and all the horrible lobbyists have more power than him, so I’m at least going to give him a full year in office before I give him credit or blame him for anything, and I might give credit or blame the more accurate people then anyways.
In summary, you seem to really look down on poor Americans, which leads me to think that you’ve never talked to many poor people or spent much time in a poor community. In my experiences, working with “ghetto” kids in many big U.S. cities and talking to farmers in the most rural parts of Nebrasksa (No, I’m not a f*ing missionary or teacher, I just like to volunteer in my spare time), I am always reminded that assumptions are rarely helpful and that people are unique and always somewhat unknowable. Perhaps you should consider interacting on a personal level with the people and communities that think need to change, as you may come up with some new solutions to existing problems rather than being bitter. .
Also, I don’t trust any country whose favorite American celebrity is Paris Hilton and don’t enjoy another man calling me “buttercup.” It’s a perfectly fine scene, it’s just not mine.
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1:24 am on November 24th, 2009 20
IveGotQuestions,
It is nice to see (for a change) some thought put into an argument which is presented in a logical and reasonable fashion.
“I stand by firmly that you are in fact making comparisons”
I guess you are right. It is a comparison in the sense that I pointed out things (for whatever reason) that Korea is doing better than America… even though America COULD do it better if it was made into a priority. It was not intended as a detail-by-detail comparison… but I see your point.
“Perhaps it should be “a society of members guilted and shamed into making personal sacrifices for the benefit of others and accepting their status in society, as unhappiness is something to be born in their culture as the general state of life, i.e. han.”
Hmmm… you are right about guilt and shame. They are big motivators in keeping members of society in line. Crappy, perhaps… but better than the guiltless/shameless cultures that one can easily find in areas of high crime, violence and misery throughout the world.
Also, these days in Korea, it seems one can change their status to a large extent through education. Of course, better education is available to those with money and family connections… but that is pretty universal in every country, every culture. I know a lot of Koreans with good jobs who had/have a farmer for a father.
As for that deep Korean unhappiness that whitey “will never understand”… yes. I find it irritatingly used as an excuse/crutch for poor or sulky behavior… or PMS.
In the end, I do believe, for reasons pure/selfish/imposed upon, Koreans have more loyalty to the success of the concept of “Korea” than Americans do to the concept of “America”. The result of this is the nation you see today that came from the nation of 50 years ago. The concept of America is being intentionally diluted.
“For the America commentary, I agree that parties are played off each other, but disagree that patriotism is demonized. Rather the very things that defined a patriot (speaking out against things that you believe are wrong even if it goes against the powerful for the sake of bettering your country) are now being demonized as certain groups are attempting to redefine the word to their own purposes.”
Hmmm… I think we are agreeing here. True patriotism is battered from all sides these days. If you don’t agree with what Big Mama Government says and does, the left says you are a wingnut, the right says you are terroristic.
Passive patriotism, such as wearing a ribbon, is encouraged to replace active patriotism such as taking to the streets when the government starts spending money it doesn’t have for things it doesn’t need to enforce rules that don’t work to help people that hurt the nation.
“For the Korean commentary, it should really mention that it doesn’t have a sense of nationalism, but a false sense of nationalism”
What’s the difference? Americans believe all sorts of things that aren’t exactly true (list available on request) but that is important to building national pride and unification of culture and purpose. It is not so much a “false sense of nationalism” in Korea (it is very real) but nationalism built under false pretenses… but that is frequently the nature of nationalism… and it has no effect on the truth that Koreans care about their unified national identity more than Americans which are being actively encouraged to categorize themselves (into smaller, politically dividable/conquerable groups, perhaps).
“And I disagree that Korea doesn’t glamorize “thug culture” ”
I got a lot of flack for this. I could well be wrong… but here is my feeling. Thug culture in Korea is considered entertaining and amusing… but it is not something the average Korean admires to the point of emulation. You don’t see the number of wannabe gangsters strutting around Korea fighting, tagging and talking some pimpin’ smack like you see in the States.
“But perhaps you would have had me with you if you hadn’t gotten completely off-topic and ruined your arguments with the last silly point, which showed you to have been creating an elaborate cover to vent your frustration and scape goat it all on the back of someone not responsible for any of it.”
You are absolutely right. The list was just sounding too serious so I threw in Japanese bows, short-skirted schoolgirls and suicidal presidents. I should have made a separate list so as not to detract from the more valid points.
“In summary, you seem to really look down on poor Americans”
Absolutely. While bad things happen to good people, the chronically poor pretty much bring it on themselves in the United States. A poor man has poor ways… and he won’t let them go… and he is frequently proud of them.
America allows more class mobility than any other country in the world. Further, if one ignores pop culture, there is an underlying theme built into American society to get educated and work hard… and the opportunity exists to the point of being shoved in your face.
That it isn’t done with the enthusiasm as in Korea is likely due to other social and cultural distractions… off the top of my head, the culture of Everyone is Special and a Winner and No Matter What They Do, It is Not Wrong, It is Just Different is a big hindrance to success. We aren’t all going to be rock stars and millionaires… but the last few generations have grown up being told that… while the hard work it takes to get it done has been downplayed.
You see it in the military… as someone pointed out here. In the military, there is every chance to get educated and throw away the ghetto/trailer park culture… but so many cling to it… and, after getting out, wind up back where they started… poor, ignorant and proud. Politically correct leadership enables this.
So, I don’t think much of poor Americans… and that goes double after seeing TRULY poor people throughout the world… who, despite being poor and truly trapped there, don’t live and act like animals as so many poor Americans do.
Before the usual gang of scolds get ‘hold of this, let me, once again, qualify this with the idea that not ALL poor people bring it on themselves… but the majority do.
This is a huge topic with many side issues… I have done a poor job laying this out here and we should discuss this more another time.
“I don’t trust any country whose favorite American celebrity is Paris Hilton”
I’m in absolute agreement.
“and don’t enjoy another man calling me “buttercup.””
Sorry. It won’t happen again, sweetpea.
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