By It seems like in the military at least half the people I know who have done their twenty years were on the second wife:
The divorce rate in the armed forces continues to edge higher, despite efforts by the military to help struggling couples.
There were an estimated 27,312 divorces among roughly 765,000 married members of the active-duty Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps in the 12 months that ended Sept. 30, the Pentagon reported Friday.
That’s a divorce rate of about 3.6 percent, compared with 3.4 percent a year earlier, according to figures from the Defense Manpower Data Center. Marriages among reservists failed at a rate of 2.8 percent compared to 2.7 the previous year.
Air Force Maj. April Cunningham, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said the latest year-to-year change was relatively small because the services have made available programs focused on strengthening and enriching family bonds among couples.
“We believe these programs are instrumental in mitigating the stresses deployment places on marriages,” said Cunningham.
Still, the figures show a slow but steady upward trend in recent years as American forces fought the two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Friday’s reported 3.6 percent rate is a full percentage point above the 2.6 percent reported in late 2001, when the U.S. began sending troops to Afghanistan in response to the Sept 11 terrorist attacks.
As in previous years, women in uniform suffered much higher divorce rates than their male counterparts: 7.7 percent compared to 3 percent for men in 2009.
There’s no comparable annual system for tracking the national or civilian divorce rate, though the Centers for Disease Control said in 2005 that 43 percent of all first marriages end in divorce within 10 years. [Army Times]
This article would be more informative if comparable civilian divorce data was provided, but unfortunately it is not available. However, let me explain to everyone why divorce in the military happens from my experience besides other typical reasons.
In Korea the big divorce issue is the juicy girl factor where I have seen this lead to a number of failed marriages, which from my experience extends from both lower to higher ranks. Another reason I have seen divorce happen is that the spouse is simply tired of the military lifestyle of moving around all the time and being away from their extended family back home.
However, both of these issues are smaller compared to the deployment issue.
One of the things I see is that you have a number of soldiers who enlist because they got their girlfriends pregnant and needed a profession right away that could help them provide for their new family. I have no problem with this, however these new couples are usually very young and not yet fully mature and this causes issues later on when deployments or even an NTC rotation happens.
I also often times see that soldiers male or female will get married right before deploying or even serving in Korea after only knowing their spouse for a very short time, but feel like marriage is the only way to ensure that that person will still be there when they get back. I have seen this lead to some pretty big marriage disasters.
I always tell soldiers that deployments are the best way to see if your significant other really is the one for you. If he/she sticks with you through your deployment then maybe he/she really is the one to marry. It is better to learn this before you get married than after.
So what have other people seen that they think is leading to the growing military divorce rate?
1:58 am on December 8th, 2009 1
I think the <a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=Uniformed+Services+Former+Spouses+Protection+Act" rel="nofollow">USFSPA has always kept the military divorce rate high because it makes any other grounds for divorce a win-win situation for the wife after 10 years of marriage. It also makes the husband of less than 10 years more likely to divorce if his marriage is on the rocks because he doesn't want to lose 50% of his retirement pay to the beeatch if he goes over 10 years.
2:32 am on December 8th, 2009 2
Good point Mark, but I see another possible reason IMHO for high divorce rate:
Incentive to marry.
Seriously. Take me for an example:
I am a single, unmarried soldier, E-4. I get paid my regular base pay, HDP and a small amount of cola. I live in a small (10' x 10')barracks room, in a building where I share a kitchen, bathroom, and laundry facilities with dozens of other soldiers. I have to abide by the curfew, and if I am not home by 0300 on a weekend, I can not go home and have to stay out somewhere else until the gates re-open at 0500. If I want to bring a guest home, I have to sign that person on to base, and then again with my building's CQ. There's a very small amount of privacy in my building and on top of that my Platoon Sgt, 1sg, or CDR can inspect my room and all of my possesions at any time. Also, without having been deployed, I can only stay in Korea for my original 1 year tour with a 1 year AIP.
…BUT if I was to get married to a Korean citizen tomorrow, I would recieve my base pay, HDP, a larger amount of cola due to my new dependant, OHA, and several other pay incentives I may not be aware of. I would move out of the barracks and into a stunning apartment in the skyrises next to base. I would be paid money to cover the outrageous cost of rent for this beautiful apartment. It would be atleast 5 times larger than my small barracks room, and I would share nothing with my neighbors except a hallway and an elevator. If I became command sponsored (which I think would easily become approved) I would recieve a fantastic set of furniture for this apartment, and I would also be able to recieve a license to drive a POV in Korea. With that license I would be able to ship my vehicle from the states or if not purchase one on base. Because my apartment would be off base, the curfew would have little to no effect on me and my life. I could come and go as I please and my guests could also do the same. My level of privacy would incerse 100 fold. My chain of command would have a difficult time obtaining the rights to inspect my off-post quarters, and for that there would need to be a very good reason… more so than in the barracks: "it's thursday, we're going to inspect tomorrow." Also, while being command sponsored, I will be able to stay in Korea much longer than any of my single, unmarried soldier friends.
As I've tried to point out, the incentive for me and my fellow soldiers to get married while stationed in Korea is huge. Take my example, or compare the quality of life of a young soldier you know that is single vs. one of the same rank that is married.
I think this may lead to a premature decision to marry, leading to an eventual divorce.
I'm just throwing that out there. Any thoughts?
3:13 am on December 8th, 2009 3
Bingo! That's definitely another reason, and there was <a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=Filipina+spouse+site%3Astripes.com" rel="nofollow">hard evidence of that in the number of abandoned spouses in Korea after 2BCT deployed to Iraq and returned to Carson. The Soldiers no longer had an incentive to stay married, and a lot of the wives returned to their juicy girl jobs when they lost the fringe benefits of being married to a Soldier.
4:16 am on December 8th, 2009 4
I'd hate to limit that to just juicy girls. There's plenty of Korean women with more respectable jobs that get married to soldiers as well.
4:20 am on December 8th, 2009 5
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4:24 am on December 8th, 2009 6
I'm not limiting it to juicy girls; I'm just saying that the 2BCT phenomenon was highlighted by juicy girls.
4:55 am on December 8th, 2009 7
That was really helpful Mr. Troll!
6:31 am on December 8th, 2009 8
WOW..I am glad i have come across this page. I have found out alot of information that I personally had no clue about. I am a wife to a soldier who is actually stationed in Korea..Camp Casey to be exact. From my reading I do believe divorce is really high do to the juicy girls, however, i won't put all the blame on them. A man knows right from wrong, they make the decisions to go ahead and be apart of this type of activity or not.As soon as my husband went over to Korea, I noticed he was distant with his letters, emails and calls but not only that, his money was coming and going and i've seen all different club and bar names on our bank statements..Once i searched around to see what these places where, i was told about these girls. It's no surprise that it would have happened, hello im across the state with our son, how would i notice he was doing something odd? However, I did file for divorce and am still waiting for it to be final..thank god! One little problem we had in our marriage, lead him to find comfort in a juicy girls arms..living proof, he posts his and her pics on his page..go figure, it didn't take him long to fall in love and propose to her. But good luck to all the soldiers who fall in the little traps these women put out..I wish them all the best of luck.
8:54 am on December 8th, 2009 9
Your son is fortunate to have a smart, courageous, and independent mother. Best wishes to both of you in your new lives.
9:11 am on December 8th, 2009 10
THANK YOU SONAGI!
11:20 am on December 8th, 2009 11
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11:07 am on December 8th, 2009 12
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6:26 pm on December 8th, 2009 13
Exactly. The QoL as a single soldier is horrific compared to the married guys. The Army really stretch’s out there to help “family’s” but doesn’t do squat for single unmarried soldiers. And making rank doesn’t assist much with that as BEQ’s are only slightly better then SSQ’s. I think the biggest difference was that I had more privacy in the BEQ’s and the command tends to leave you alone and not bother you. But still the small room, the curfew, the inability to have my (then) GF stay the night with me which forced us to sleep in motels if we wanted special time. The no driving at first seems a non-issue with the amount of public transportation / taxi’s available, but after getting a car I wouldn’t give it up again.
I can kinda understand the pay difference though, that extra money is for the additional expense’s of maintaining a household and feeding / providing for a wife. Of course the single soldiers don’t even have the option to choose that.
7:06 pm on December 8th, 2009 14
The juicy's and Trap Door Spiders aren't all to blame. A lot of Joes don't have the will power to keep it in their pants.
It ain't all their fault though. At any army installation in the states when an NTC deployment comes or rotation to the Desert comes then the girls go out and play. When I was at Ft Eustis in Virginia when the Navy fleet would go out to sea there was so much trim at the clubs in Norfolk and VA Beach you couldn't turn around without some chick wanting you to play Jody.
1:42 am on December 9th, 2009 15
if wives are so worried about their husbands I dont understand why more of them dont join them in Korea….. women know when they marry someone in the military you will be moving all the time. even ones with the high paying jobs need to make sacrifices for their spouses. I have 2 BA's and had a high paying job but still came with my husband here on his NON COMMAND sponsored tour. spouses can get OAH anywhere not just in the States. I live 2 hours away from my husband in Korea and it works. I have used my BAs to get me $50/hour teaching jobs. even if you dont want to work and just have a family, it is possible to live here with OAH. even if your husband has to live on base, he can still stay with you if you get a place nearby. Korea is a pretty developed country (even with it strange ways) living a year overseas even non command sponsored is worth it to be with your spouse! and hey why wouldnt you want to experience a new country?
my hubby just got another year non command sponsored at a new base but closer to me so it will be another year in the ROK!
I will go all over the world wherever he goes even when not command sponsored!
3:03 am on December 9th, 2009 16
I understand what you said BUT—It should be equal work beans equal pay.
I know of no other occupation where you get payed "extra" if your married.
"The QoL as a single soldier is horrific compared to the married guys." I could not agree more.
3:26 am on December 9th, 2009 17
I think most enlisted wives are not as well off financially as you, or as well educated and employable as you.
Plus it is not encouraged by the Command. It would be a Non combatant evac nightmare should things heat up.
Understand?
4:34 am on December 9th, 2009 18
Something you do not hear about much is the military system of what a military wife should be is old and they won’t change it. Unlike the old days a wife was a housewife who stayed home or in their spare time did what the military wanted them to do. Things like volunteering for military community things. Now a lot of wives have education and have some very good jobs while stationed in the US. The husband gets an overseas assignment to a non-hostile area. What are they going to do, give up a high paying job in the US and go overseas and get a job as a cashier in the commissary or AAFES? GS jobs are usually programmed people in this GS system. I knew of a lady who had a job making $75,000 a year and divorced her husband because she did not want to give up her position. Most are married to officer, but you do not hear about this.
10:15 am on December 9th, 2009 19
Just to stir the pot abit; you should see the wives showing up at the bars in Killeen tx when their “soldier boy” is deployed.
Or my good friend in 2ID who got an email from his neighbor about a red pickup that was in his driveway quite often.
He had the neighbor take pictures and returned from midtour leave with divorse in hand. Thanks to the pictures he was able to keep his house and pay. The only thing he lost was a cheating wife.
8:44 pm on December 9th, 2009 20
Listen “chris in Dallas” I have been one of the main commenters here at the Drop, (I have even heard) that people follow my words almost the same as they follow the bible. Who are you? You are just a “Drive by” commenter. A one trick pony who makes a snide comment and never comes back (under the same name).
They are called juciy for a reasson. They have tons and tons of juice. The juice has the aroma and flavor of sweet nector. I have been there and done that. Can you say that?
No? then off with you troll, never come back.
BEEN THERE DONE THAT.
1:19 am on December 11th, 2009 21
Excellent point. I saw a lot of spouses climbing the walls because they had some education and no way to use it. Nobody off post is going to hire them given such folks are more or less temps. Getting a traditional job on post (DoD, AAFES, etc.) is a bureaucratic nightmare and tend to be low paying.
I don't recall ever seeing a couple divorce over this. However, I saw a number of Soldiers quit the Army in part because their wives didn't want to be Hausfraus.
1:33 am on December 11th, 2009 22
I knew two Caucasian wives who joined their husbands in Korea in a non-command sponsored status. One loved the experience and the other acceptably coped with it. Both of them had college degrees which hint at a certain level of maturity and life experiences which tend to make one open minded. I couldn't imagine a 19 year old spouse fresh off a farm in Kansas likely to have the skills to deal with Korea.
Evac is a good point. I remember we counseled all the Korean wives to keep open airplane tickets so they could get out if the fit hit the shan. Even if they didn't or circumstances made self evac impossible, those women could easily fend for themselves by blending in and heading south. That is problematic for a native born American. I suppose a person like CGAL would be savvy enough to cope, but I have my doubts whether your standard model enlisted spouse could handle such drama.
2:54 am on December 11th, 2009 23
in my opinion I really feel an evac is highly unlikely. there are over 15,000 english teachers here in the ROK who are not concerned about the north being a threat at all.
if you really want to be with your husband you will just come. even non university educated wives will still have an ok time here. it is all what you make. they still get to use all the base facilities and they can even drive with an international license! I feel a wife with no overseas experience will be ok, they could just stay in their neighbourhood if they wanted to.
5:53 am on December 11th, 2009 24
CGAL
The 15,000 english teachers in the ROK are NOT the military's responsibility like "military dependents" are. You have two BA degrees, so you should know that.
I knew a few troops that had korean wives from their FIRST tour, that did not want to spend the year in Korea with their men.
Who really WANTS to drive in Korea? I did, both military and civilian vehicles. In a "POV" if an accident does happen involving a foreigner, it is always the foreigner's fault. If your connected with the military, your done.
Non university educated wives will stay in the house till hubby comes home, or worse yet and more likely find other's wives to hang with.
Go to slot mechines with or just be depressed with. untill hubby goes to the field for a couple weeks, and she can really have some fun.
Yep, that "neighbourhood" would be alot of fun! I have lived off post. I wouldn't want my wife to live there.
They don't call american female soldiers "queen for a year" for no reason, in Korea.
Now if you speak the hangul well, and have blond hair, blue or green eyes and are slim, there are koreans that will pay you some big bucks to go on business meeting with them. No sex involved! But I'm sure you could get a very nice tip if you did.
Back to the DMZ heating up. Not likely—BUT WHAT IF IT DID?
It is always possible. If it did, Seoul is not the place to be. Those english teachers are toast the first 24 hours, along with most of Seoul.
The dependents would have to fly by military transport from Osan. Guess who is transported first. Command Sponsored of course. At least as long as order is maintained. The non command sponsored are SOL. Their husbands are not there with them. They have a job to do.
Of course there is a list of the NCS. But they are spread out in town. Would take time and manpower to round them up. To think that all would go well and no one would be missed is naive.
The WAR never ended. There is no peace treaty. Just the longest cease fire in known history.
They do war games every year. Not because it is fun, but because it could happen — tonight.
It is called a "Hardship tour" for a reason. I would not want my wife there, if I trusted her. If I didn't trust her, it wouldn't matter. She would mess around no matter.
I've seen um in the bars outside Campbell, Hood and Korea. I've dated some. They always say they are divorced.
Spent nine years in Korea.
Saw more guys cry over "dear John" letters and emails than I ever thought possible.
Heard more women brag about how much they got from their divorce than I wanted to hear.
8:19 am on December 11th, 2009 25
I also think it contributes to a higher divorce rate.
9:50 pm on December 11th, 2009 26
retired gi:
you are looking at everything from a military perspective…………I was just trying to give a non GI view. I lived in Korea for 3 years prior to marrying, the girls you are talking about being a queen for a year are military girls. even if you are not educated there are still things that you can do here; volunteer, join the numerous expat groups…..etc
being in korea is not a hardship in any way IMO. have you ever been to areas further then a 5km radius outside of a base? all the things you described above are not really a factor once you leave the area around the bases. there is no rule that you can not live a 20 minute drive/bus from the base.
11:35 pm on December 11th, 2009 27
>there are over 15,000 English teachers here in the ROK who are not concerned about the north being a threat at all<
I suggest that they stick to teaching English, and leave the intel estimates to someone else.
It's nice having someone to worry about that for them, so they don't have to.
11:48 pm on December 11th, 2009 28
"being in korea is not a hardship in any way" I agree! Nor was it a hardship for me. BUT it was for most of the Troops I knew. Also, tell the Military, as they are the ones that declared it a hardship tour. You and I seem to be special.
"have you ever been to areas further than 5km redius outside the base?" Oh, so your in attack mode! Yes i have, as I'm sure Sorak Mountain is abit further. Two or three amusement parks. I've also had a few korean friends take me to their homes over the holidays and spent the weekend with them and their parents in some very small but nice apartments. With two degrees, I would have thought you would understand when I wrote that I stayed in korea
N I N E — Y E A R S and had a POV. Did you even notice that I wrote about my (off post apartment)? I also spent time at the Orphanage that the unit supported. Became quite attached to them.
As far as a non GI view goes, any WIFE or other dependent will be living in a GI environment. Her life will be subject to a GI life because she is married to a —– GI.
He will have 24 hour duty, two week and four week field exexcises. Unless he is 11B, and then it will be more. I REALLY hope she likes to volunteer.
"the girls you are talking about being queen for a year are military girls."
To be honest, it applies to ANY female of non asian decent, who for whatever reason, finds herself in that location. You need not be in the military, but most are as Command Sponsored wives were few and seldom seen. Except for that one that would drive around base in her red convertible corvette with her blond hair in the wind. THAT was something we didn't see every day. I believe she was bored. There was the one that I took Korean Language class with at the ACS building. Of course the Teacher was a dependent (command sponsored wife) but she was korean and had a BA in something. Not the norm at all. None, the dependent of enlisted personnel.
So yes. I am looking at it from a military perspective.
It is a Military assignment. Not a Tourist trip, that last a year.
Note: I never found a 20 minute drive or 20 minutes on a korean bus to be something I would call — fun — as a rule. Some were however, interesting.
As I said, I enjoyed Korea. But I enjoyed it for the same reason that others hated it. It was so different.
11:50 pm on December 11th, 2009 29
I think Korea is a great test of a marriage. When I was first stationed in Korea, every single married or engaged person in my shop either broke up or got a divorce.
The most achingly obvious explanation was that the relationships were very tenuous in the first place, once these people separated that weakness was exposed very quickly.
The military is very hard on relationships, marriages, etc. I know of very few that were successes.
3:11 pm on December 13th, 2009 30
just because you are married to a GI doesnt mean you will be in a GI environment 24/7 while living in the ROK. It is what you choose it to be. I only use the base for grocery shopping and getting gas, nothing else. I go there maybe twice a month. I do everything else including medical in korea. The nearest base to us is about 20kms, maybe more.
Even if you are here on an assignment it is possible to experience an expat life and not so much a military life if that is what you want.
there are plenty of things wives can do during the day/weeks that their husbands are not around that is not just volunteer; take up a new hobby, online courses, make friends with the locals….etc. shit, my husband has left twice for 6weeks at a time in the last 7 months!
I have lived in over 10 countries before marrying without relying on the military and have met numerous people who do not have a university degree do the same.
I am just saying that it is possible and can be an option to join your husband here if it is not a command sponsored tour. I know it is not for everyone, but it shouldnt be put out there that it is not possible. time away from spouses can wreck marriages and having options like this is nice to know about.
3:00 pm on January 12th, 2010 31
[...] a statistical control wold be appropriate – military families and military divorces. Per this article, the military divorce rate for was 3.6 percent for the year ending Sept 30 2009, compared to 2.6 [...]
10:09 pm on February 2nd, 2010 32
No discussion of military women, My wife of 17 years has been in Korea for 10 months and it has been the worst 10 months of our marriage, There is NOTHING to do over there but go out to the 118 bars in songtan and drink. My wife never ever went to bars before and it has been making me crazy thinking of her out till 3am getting drunk surrounded by a bunch of drunken men. There have been major issues about all this but I think with 2 months left to go we will get thru it.
If we didnt reach some sort of compramise on her going out so often she would have been coming home to a whole different life.1 important thing that helped a lot was I had a ton of airmiles and was able to go over there a couple times and she was able to come home on the midtour. Korea sucks for marriages plain and simple.
12:21 am on February 3rd, 2010 33
Jay,
Thanks for allowing me to be there for your wife…hell she was there for everyone. There IS much to do and see with out drinking or going to the clubs. BTW if a marriage is not strong in the first place the cracks will soon become a split.
12:56 am on February 3rd, 2010 34
wow what an asshole!
9:25 am on February 3rd, 2010 35
if she told you the onlything to do her was to drink then she lied. There is so much more that you can do here hten hitting the bars every night. I am only with my husband on the weekends and maybe once in a while I might go to a bar on a week day (never in songtan). I keep busy during the week with so many other projects, exercising, wine nights with the girls or just hanging out at home.
12:59 am on March 4th, 2010 36
First of all I'm going on my second reup with my husband and we have had some ups and downs like anyone else, but when things get to the point of divorce all his command says is ok hurry up and get the papers and get what you need done. So is there any question why the rates are getting higher. I had to take things in my own hands and let me tell you what a pain that was because tri care only would cover individual therapy sessions, and I had to ask if my husband could come. The only way he could be there was for emotional support not to fix his and mine issues.So anyways thank God we worked through it, and with NO help from the military beside providing me with tri care.All I can say is that I hope someone sees this and can address this issue, and make people try to get help before you just hurry and get papers.
5:19 am on March 4th, 2010 37
What are you suggesting? That the supervisor or commander order your husband to go to marriage counseling with you? That's no more their role than it would be for a boss or a manager in a civilian company.
If one of my people were having marital problems, I would tell him or her to handle their business, whether through a lawyer or the chaplain is not my call. If it did escalate to calls to the police for domestic violence, then the military can issue a No Contact order that is only binding on the military member but not the spouse.
I've worked in offices where shrill wives would call their separated husband over 10 times a day, shrieking into the phone demanding to talk to him and he wants nothing more to do it her.
7:44 am on March 26th, 2010 38
Well here is my "personal divorce experience. I got lonely being constantly deployed not having a stable girl friend because I was on a USNS at the time usually 1 week in port 3weeks at sea… Anywho rushed into marriage I was an advent church goer the people who have met me can verify I'm the nicest guy. I married a Korea who was in the states at the time had a tourist visa and impending Student Visa, so can't say it was for the visa thing (atleast I hope it wasn't) Though when you get married she becomes attached to your for basically a green card for 2-10years so When I basically finally found out she was cheating on me (it had been already going on for like 5months or so I found out later) She cried abuse on me cops threw me in jail because they believed her over me?! Anywho found inocent I had to convince her I didn't care I would still sighn/give her the imagration stuff(so she could remain in the US) But she just went crazy. There is nothing special about keeping a marriage, because you can't control other people when it comes down to it. You can only control you. Marriage is supposed to be a commitment between you two. Its a SUPER promise saying for better or for worse for richer or poorer in sickness and health. All you can do is try to live up to your word it shows charictor.(Marriage is a religous practice and its my firm beliefe there would be a lot less divorces if the practice of marriage and divorce was done soley by the Church) The only reason we have marriage cirtifacates now is becuase of the Racisits who didn't want blacks to get married after the civil war. Look it up people didn't always need a marriage paper to say they were married.
4:16 am on April 28th, 2010 39
I am former military but now I am a military spouse. We are in Korea and command sponsored. I believe that the rising divorce rate is due to the lax rules concerning adultery. Most commands look the other way and don't address the soldiers when the issue of adultery is brought up. There are several women serving in the military next to our husbands and if they are not strong enough-which most of them are not, they begin office romances with other soldiers. As I said before, I served so I have seen firsthand what goes on in the military "behind closed doors". Sending a married soldier overnight TDY with someone of a different sex is an accident waiting to happen. If your spouse is not strong enough to resist temptation, the opportunity that the military provides is too great and that is why the divorce rate continues to rise.
4:00 pm on April 28th, 2010 40
At least the military has a Dark Ages law against adultery. Isn’t that a step above the civilian world? How do adult civilians deal with coed offices and business trips?
You seem to be suggesting that the military should be doing something more to address the “issue” but you don’t say what it is.
I wish people would stop trying to be victims and looking outside their lives for causes of their “issues.” If your husband (or wife) wants more action than they are getting at home, whose problem is that really?
3:59 am on May 12th, 2010 41
I don't expect the Navy to do anything about it because they can't. What marriage divorce always boils down to is some-ones relation with Christ/God. Marriage is a religious practice again not something you can or should force your ideas on another-// Here is my solution the government should get out of Church; but the Church should voice its opinion about the government.
7:37 am on May 12th, 2010 42
JoeC ,
Don't confuse interference with concern.
When a real leader sees one of his married-with-kids guys throwing away his family paychecks on a juicy, it is not out of line to take him aside and have a talk with him… at the least put a little pressure on him to uphold those Core Values everyone keeps yapping about when convenient.
When I was at Osan, this was not done… mostly because the juicy racket was protected by senior management, "leadership" had no idea what their guys were dong… and most of those shoe clerks were too ball-less and self-absorbed to show any concern anyway.
We have all seen a lot of young guys come to Korea and have to leave their reasonably new bride behind… and, with absolutely no guidance by (presumably) wiser and more experienced leaders, we all know how that often turns out.
As for the dumpy-but-married plain-Janes who come over and find they are the center of attention on a drunken Friday night by shyt-hot guys fighting over them… well… "leadership" runs the other way in their haste to not notice.
While nobody is a big fan of invasion in their personal life, not cheating on your spouse is a matter of discipline… and that is one of the characteristics that "leadership" should be building in young GIs.
8:29 am on May 12th, 2010 43
USO tours most weekends. Sooo, she lied to you. Married woman in THOSE bars, are just lapping up the attention and free drinks.
8:32 am on May 12th, 2010 44
Your life. Your marriage. Your job to fix it.
2:33 pm on May 12th, 2010 45
The issue is this simple.
Why does the Military AWARD you for getting married? When you marry, you get extra pay that a single person doing the same job does not get.
You are AWARDED the right to move out of your barracks room and move off base.
If the military did not AWARD marriage, many would not happen and therefore the following divorce would not happen. Those that did happen would be based on more important issues than getting out of the barracks and getting extra pay.
Marriage is a CONTRACT between two adults, that sometimes is conducted in a religious building. The Marriage CONTRACT has nothing to do with God. It isn’t the business of the church. But it does make it more attractive doesn’t it
Marriage is a way for the man to get sex (he thinks) legally and a means for a woman to ensure that the bills get paid. We try to attach a deeper meaning to it so we feel better. Prostitutes are cheaper and more fulfilling sexualy. Less complicated than the expensive divorce that nearly always awards women money that they no longer have to rub nasties with the man to obtain.
I look forward to (Gay divorce). That is going to be a HOOT
Judges will have to THINK about it. Two men? Who to persecute 
Two women? Who to favor with the MONEY 
You want to lower the divorce rate? PAY married and single soldier the same to include the extra pay for food and rent. Then thay will be happy to say in the barracks. That’s number one. Number two is to have brothels on base. When you add it up, you have no reason to marry except the idea of “love”. No reason to leave the base either. Just what USFK wants
TMC can check the girls every week, like they used to do the bar girls downtown.
7:34 am on July 9th, 2010 46
46 Why do men PAY for a divorce? Because it is WORTH IT!
Stop paying young soldiers extra to get married. Equal pay for equal work! Why is Military pay like welfair payments?
12:46 am on July 13th, 2010 47
Or how about this one thats always fun to use. 1st My RDC all said #1 advice was not to get marrieded while in the service. #2 My recruiter also said don't get married in the service. #3 I think that alot of marriages in the real Military start off kind of rocky. Example a newly wed sailor gets married and about 6months later goes on deployment. I don't think thats enough time to establish a healthy marriage, I believe you need atleast 1 good year of being togather before deployments otherwise its usually too much a strain. #4@response to Retired GI I don't think we will ever see equal pay for equal time because even in the civilian sector anywhere you go married couples are getting the tax breaks, so the government would have to get its big nose out of it first
That would also mean that females wouldn't get any slack on the PFA and would have to compete at the same times 
I think that is one thing our culture is telling us that is wrong that All' women can fill men roles and vice versa. The truth of the matter is we are way different I wish women would stop trying to be guys and guys would stop trying to be girls… The last comment I am surprised that no one else has written yet is your wife isn't issued with your sea bag if the Navy thought you needed it it would have issued it 
4:00 am on July 13th, 2010 48
hello ya'll..i'm seeking advise from soldiers & wives who have or been where i am now.i'm married to a wonderful man for 12yrs.he's served 3 tours in iraq & now a year in korea.i've supported him by all means as a great wife would.i trusted him with all my soul,i've never questioned him nor with thru his stuff.i know he has lady friends online.i allow that to keep him company when he is away from home.he is a man & with his tours in iraq i know his self esteam has changed major.i noticed a huge difference this last tour from iraq,when he came home he was very on edge,calling me every second if i wasn't on time from the grocery store or doing errands.i asked him to seek help & he refused.he stated his military status would be affected if he told them what was going on in his head.i continued to stand by him 100%.we never had spats or serious issues the whole 12yrs till 6 months before he left.he became withdrawn from our family,his friends,& general daily tasks.but our sex life was still great.he flew out in jan to korea,i noticed in may he became short on the phone & didn't call everyday.in june he with thru 3,000 within 2 weeks there.withdrawing cash never using his debit card.i asked him once about it & he said he was drinking alot & buying his soldiers drinks too.i believed it.june 14th was the last time i heard his voice.i told him i was scared because from him taking all that money out it left me here with bills not paid & no food at all in our house.our lights were getting shut off that same day.i didnt yell nor scream at him.i just told him hun what is wrong,you would never not have your bills paid much less leave us here with no food.to be honest i had not eaten in 2 dys by this time.i had no phone number to call my husband.he would call me from a phone card.i was so stupid i believe him when he told me that the cell he bought in korea only worked in korea.well i was lied too this whole time.i had this gut feeling he was lying so i hacked his email account which i've never done before.wow i was shocked what i found.he had been emailing his buddy friend that was other there with him who just left back to the states.i guess the two of them have been seeing these 2 juicy girls from the peace club.daisy & reign.my hubby was bragging how he & daisy were going back to the hotel that nite & the next day.and of course i can't call my hubby no number,lol..so i did have his best friend on my facebook account who is over there too but in a different unit help me.i told him everything sent him the emails.he called my hubby right away,& ripped him a new ass.wow did my phone fast,the hubby denying it,saying he type it wrong,he put the blame on another soldier that the other soldier was the one who was dating daisy.he swore on everything he never cheated.i really started to believe him till i was given info on the girls & contacted them myself.i've been made a fool of big time.they had no idea he was married,this juicy girl had no teeth,thin as hell,dressed like a hooker.they even sent me pix.my heart is so torn up.i'm not ugly,i take really good care of myself.all my hubbys friends tell him how the hell did you get her.even the juicy girl told me i was so beautiful & why would he lie & do this.i dont know what to do rite now,cuz the girls told me so much.they even had his cell number.the girl daisy is crazy about my hubby she wants to be with him.even now.she keeps calling him & texting him begging him to come back to her.i gave my hubby an option.he can either walk away from us & just get divorced or stay over there & work it out with daisy & i will stay married to him but we will just go our own ways so our bills still get paid,..he told me he will not divorce me nor give up what we have.he calls me all day now begging me to work this out.to let him get help over there.that i know of he has not seen these girls.he told me he did it cuz his head is messed up from iraq.at this point rite now i truly love this man.i want to continue standing beside him.but i am worried if he may have caught something.the thought of him with a hooker insults my inner respect,even thou he keeps telling me this girl was not great in bed she was just plain.that he didnt have feeling for her it was just a drunk f**k…here is my questions..what are these juicy girls like in the sack,should i worry about a std.i'm still at a hurt stage,i want to try & work this out but i keep thinking how can i please my hubby now in the sack after he has been with a professional.he does tell me even now that i have nothing to worry about in that dept cuz i am the best he had.and that this is not my fault.i've been the best wife.but what he tells me & what he has done what else am i to believe.i feel violated,betrayed,and the pure bond between us is gone.any replies i would be grateful for.i mean i wonder if these juicy girls are even clean or not with having so many men bangging them nitely..i'm scared..but i praying we make it thru this.i took my vows till death.i would never cheat.i do have murals and too much respect for myself.my email is jeezypitbulls@yahoo.com..thank you guys so much..god bless..thank all the soldiers for all you do for us..
7:26 am on July 13th, 2010 49
The money issue sounds like a slot machine problem. If so blame MWR not a Juice girl.
MWR is more cruel than a hooker. A hooker will normally leave you with a few bucks for a taxi – an MWR slot machine will take every dollar you have.
But at least you can take refuge in the fact that taking your last dollar makes good evaluation fodder for senior leadership.
10:02 am on July 13th, 2010 50
'this juicy girl had no teeth,thin as hell,dressed like a hooker."
Three out of three ain't bad!
On a good note, when a man eats steak every day, sometimes he likes a hamburger. Don't take it personally.
Give him a chance when he comes back and see how it goes.
11:53 am on July 13th, 2010 51
Tracy, I haven't been to korea since 2003, so anything I say is "dated". But back in the day I had a friend that was always talking about his wife every day at breakfast. I took him out once. He had a short-time with a Professional. Afterward he was in shock when he understood what he did. It was only once! He never went out again. He was/is a good guy. I would tell "his" wife to forgive.
Your situation is different from that. In money and visits. I was single during my military service. I was on a first name relationship with a few of the Pros. I NEVER spent 3000 in a month and I paid my bills. But that was with korean women!
Not the Flips. I never messed with the Flips — in Korea.
Take what you can from that.
11:26 pm on July 13th, 2010 52
Again I will say seek out good Christian counseling from either the military Chaplain or some other Christian leadership you can respect/relate to Marriage is a Religious practice its not something that the courts decide. The reason why the courts got involved in the first place was do to racist people who didn't want blacks/African Americans getting married, because that was something they weren't allowed to do before slavery so the KKK pushed for marriage licenses. If you take a look, there are still instances of this still going on judges refusing to marry someone based on the color of their skin.
12:23 am on July 14th, 2010 53
andrew 52 I feel sad for you man. Everything is a race/hate issue it seems. You spoke more about race than you did marriage. You poor little racist.
Marriage today is a "legal" matter. A way for the courts to make money while insuring that men take care of their women. A means to enforce responsibility. A way for the church to control the people, LONG before there was a place called America.
As for "christian counseling", are you saying that only a professed "christian" can offer good advice on relationships? I know some very good people that do not claim any religion.
Some of my best advice/information came from sitting on a bar stool. Doesn't take a brain surgeon (or a religious person) to understand what the appropriate course of action should be.
To sum up: I find your religious and racist views to be both offensive and short sighted. But I thank you for your words. Reminds me of why I no longer attend any church service.
11:44 pm on July 15th, 2010 54
I disagree with #54. Often sticking it out with someone when there is no love or trust left, leads to EXTREME depression and real hate.
If it's over, then it is time to move on. The sooner the better!
I have an ole girlfriend that should have and could have made a clean break ten years ago with her soon to be ex-husband. Too bad she hung on to a man that wasn't worth it.
Her problem was always EXPECTING people to do what they should do. "Keep your expectations of others Low. You will be much happier." Depend on others as little as possible. This action will lead to further happiness.
Divorce is worth it. If you think it's over—it's over.
1:59 am on July 16th, 2010 55
#52: "If you take a look, there are still instances of this still going on judges refusing to marry someone based on the color of their skin."
I took a look at this a couple years ago when I was in law school. There are a a whole series of Supreme Court decisions prohibiting this. No Judge in his/her right mind is going to refuse to marry a couple on such grounds. That's what impeachments are made of!
Weird personal story. I married my Korean wife in an Alabma probate court. The Alabama constitution specifically prohibited interracial marriages, but the Judge we picked helped us tie the knot. You know why? Its because a 30+ year old decision prohibited enforcement of this provision.
Until Andrew or someone else gives valid specifics, I am calling BS!
10:25 am on July 16th, 2010 56
Chris In Dallas,
Both of you are right.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/15/interrac…
12:47 pm on July 17th, 2010 57
Just take a look at the facts as you see them
thanks again Chickenhead // Though I like it from India's stand point because marriage is so defined as a Religious thing they stay out of it FYI muslims can be married up to 4 times at once and have 4 wives. Retired GI did you know that Vampirism is a nationally recognized religion and that RPs have to accommodate this? There are so many religions out there that the government wants to shout out separation of Church and Gov well shouldn't it go both ways as in the Government should stay out of religion? The #1 reason why its a tax break only for straight couples is it boosts the population levels I.E. producing something in this case children (gay people can adopt but thats not producing also the same argument could be made about single people can they not also adopt?) So the Government want so promote marriage because it produces something. And on the Second point If you ever do read your Bible I would have to strongly agree that Christians should only get advice from other Christians Have you not read Psalm 1? there are many other biblical references I could give but I think that one is pretty clear. Also seriously the courts getting involved to protect the women on divorce? Wha? with so much equal opportunity here in America why shouldn't a women be able to support herself? As far as children go I've heard of all kinds of stories from Example #1 a divorce couple has a kid mother gets the boy from mon-fri and dad on the weekends the dad has to pay child support for the weekdays and the mother the weekends- When the dad doesn't pay the cops are all up in arms but when the mom doesn't pay they could care less. Also the best slogan I've heard for this campaign here in MN is We're dads not wallets. Yet I will say this back in the day when a girl couldn't earn a days wage the women we're getting screwed when it came to divorces and having to live on their own again. Thank God times are different.
3:16 pm on July 17th, 2010 58
Andrew, Vampirism? So what, the Army recognizes wiccan. People will worship damn near anything. Look at global warming and Obama for two examples more far fetched than Vampirism. The government is "supposed" to stay out of religion. Except for the fees and license of course.
Tax breaks? Gay or not? Not an issue for me, or the woman that asked for input on her husband in Korea.
Read the bible? Not in a few years. But I have read it front to back, except for the begats. It is not the only source of inspiration or wisdom out there. Somehow, I don't think you agree. Too closed minded. Judging by your feeling that only a Christian can give good advice. I'm sure a Muslim would say the exact same thing.
Women are only equal to men when it suits their purpose. You know that. The other times they play the helpless female used or whatever by the evil male.
You can thank God for the way things are if you wish. I will continue to wait for women to be truely equal rather than playing the victim when it suits them and demanding to be equal when it doesn't.
Granted that some truely are, but today this is not the norm. At least not in America.
As for the child support thing, it was not part of her problem and I would offer nothing in that regard if it were. Courts "government" would favor her automatically. It is not a religious matter. It is a legal matter. They took their vows in a church perhaps, but if there is a divorce it will be a purely "legal" matter. No religion needed for a divorce. Just the legal battle for how much HE pays. Sex (women read love) is so expensive. Really does make "renting" the better option. Most people don't know the difference between the two (sex/love—love/sex) anyway. If it wasn't so unfortunate it would be funny. I know of too many examples.
Not to mention the Deacon's wife that was pursuing the Preacher back when I was a teen. He was let go. And all the good "christian" women sitting around the table, talking about how great it was. Because, of course, the male was to blame.
Never went back. Told the good "christian" women why as well. That was it for me.
I have MORE! But I'm starting to bore myself.
What I really enjoy is when a brand new, still wet behind the ears, attempts to witness to me. You can see it. It's like the latest drug to them. Do not misunderstand. I don't tell them they are wrong. I question them, make them think. Perhaps I help them some. Or not. Most "christians" don't even know their own book.
I heard a Wiccan tell me once that he was unconcerned. He was one of the "others".
Not subject to the original sin.
3:59 am on July 18th, 2010 59
#56 "Chris In Dallas,
Both of you are right.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/15/interrac…
Well, I said no Judge "in their right mind" would refuse to perform a marriage ceremony on such grounds. JP Bardwell is a good example. The article you reference is dated about 2 weeks before Bardwell resigned his position. As best I can determine, he is currently under the cloud of a civil rights lawsuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Bardwell#cite_…
5:07 am on December 12th, 2010 60
divorce is of course one of the worst thing that you could experience but you could get over it '."
3:33 am on September 30th, 2011 61
Response to Retired GI <- I am asking for a real name? And wet behind the ears Christian? Let me Challenge you if you actually did read* the Bible and not skim it or just look at the words because I would love and welcome a real debate I should be able to get to a web cam and debate in person on youtube and not hide behind a desk. As I stated before It(Marriage) wasn't always a legal thing being married or divorced but because of the hardness of our hearts and because people are sinful the courts got involved and men become judges of others. What is right in their own eye-
So the government spending doesn’t bother you as most Americans I am not surprised.
Truth Never Changes what it’s a statement Women are Equal to men but how people react around them that is their own doing, and I cannot/ nor should I want to force my will on others.
I can respect your opinion on child support I don’t agree with it but hey you have a freedom to voice it.
I agree with what you said about love and sex a lot of people don’t understand what real love is I would bet that some of this is because we don’t articulate ourselves enough part of it but I think the more reason is because (Now pay attention to this one) it’s so easy for me to be me- A sinner and naturally wanting one’s own. It takes an act of God to change us IE Jesus Christ. One can only start to learn true love in this otherwise all* our actions are rooted in selfishness.
I agree there is a big problem in the organized religion that we have and I think there are many problems with it that I am studying right now about the churches dividing. I am convinced that it should be as one Church because don’t we all believe in the same truth?
As for everyone else the topic is why divorce is so high in the military and continues to grow.
-I hope everyone is having a good day