By It seems like in the military at least half the people I know who have done their twenty years were on the second wife:
The divorce rate in the armed forces continues to edge higher, despite efforts by the military to help struggling couples.
There were an estimated 27,312 divorces among roughly 765,000 married members of the active-duty Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps in the 12 months that ended Sept. 30, the Pentagon reported Friday.
That’s a divorce rate of about 3.6 percent, compared with 3.4 percent a year earlier, according to figures from the Defense Manpower Data Center. Marriages among reservists failed at a rate of 2.8 percent compared to 2.7 the previous year.
Air Force Maj. April Cunningham, a Defense Department spokeswoman, said the latest year-to-year change was relatively small because the services have made available programs focused on strengthening and enriching family bonds among couples.
“We believe these programs are instrumental in mitigating the stresses deployment places on marriages,” said Cunningham.
Still, the figures show a slow but steady upward trend in recent years as American forces fought the two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Friday’s reported 3.6 percent rate is a full percentage point above the 2.6 percent reported in late 2001, when the U.S. began sending troops to Afghanistan in response to the Sept 11 terrorist attacks.
As in previous years, women in uniform suffered much higher divorce rates than their male counterparts: 7.7 percent compared to 3 percent for men in 2009.
There’s no comparable annual system for tracking the national or civilian divorce rate, though the Centers for Disease Control said in 2005 that 43 percent of all first marriages end in divorce within 10 years. [Army Times]
This article would be more informative if comparable civilian divorce data was provided, but unfortunately it is not available. However, let me explain to everyone why divorce in the military happens from my experience besides other typical reasons.
In Korea the big divorce issue is the juicy girl factor where I have seen this lead to a number of failed marriages, which from my experience extends from both lower to higher ranks. Another reason I have seen divorce happen is that the spouse is simply tired of the military lifestyle of moving around all the time and being away from their extended family back home.
However, both of these issues are smaller compared to the deployment issue.
One of the things I see is that you have a number of soldiers who enlist because they got their girlfriends pregnant and needed a profession right away that could help them provide for their new family. I have no problem with this, however these new couples are usually very young and not yet fully mature and this causes issues later on when deployments or even an NTC rotation happens.
I also often times see that soldiers male or female will get married right before deploying or even serving in Korea after only knowing their spouse for a very short time, but feel like marriage is the only way to ensure that that person will still be there when they get back. I have seen this lead to some pretty big marriage disasters.
I always tell soldiers that deployments are the best way to see if your significant other really is the one for you. If he/she sticks with you through your deployment then maybe he/she really is the one to marry. It is better to learn this before you get married than after.
So what have other people seen that they think is leading to the growing military divorce rate?
8:58 am on December 8th, 2009 1
I think the USFSPA has always kept the military divorce rate high because it makes any other grounds for divorce a win-win situation for the wife after 10 years of marriage. It also makes the husband of less than 10 years more likely to divorce if his marriage is on the rocks because he doesn’t want to lose 50% of his retirement pay to the beeatch if he goes over 10 years.
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December 11th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I also think it contributes to a higher divorce rate.
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9:32 am on December 8th, 2009 2
Good point Mark, but I see another possible reason IMHO for high divorce rate:
Incentive to marry.
Seriously. Take me for an example:
I am a single, unmarried soldier, E-4. I get paid my regular base pay, HDP and a small amount of cola. I live in a small (10′ x 10′)barracks room, in a building where I share a kitchen, bathroom, and laundry facilities with dozens of other soldiers. I have to abide by the curfew, and if I am not home by 0300 on a weekend, I can not go home and have to stay out somewhere else until the gates re-open at 0500. If I want to bring a guest home, I have to sign that person on to base, and then again with my building’s CQ. There’s a very small amount of privacy in my building and on top of that my Platoon Sgt, 1sg, or CDR can inspect my room and all of my possesions at any time. Also, without having been deployed, I can only stay in Korea for my original 1 year tour with a 1 year AIP.
…BUT if I was to get married to a Korean citizen tomorrow, I would recieve my base pay, HDP, a larger amount of cola due to my new dependant, OHA, and several other pay incentives I may not be aware of. I would move out of the barracks and into a stunning apartment in the skyrises next to base. I would be paid money to cover the outrageous cost of rent for this beautiful apartment. It would be atleast 5 times larger than my small barracks room, and I would share nothing with my neighbors except a hallway and an elevator. If I became command sponsored (which I think would easily become approved) I would recieve a fantastic set of furniture for this apartment, and I would also be able to recieve a license to drive a POV in Korea. With that license I would be able to ship my vehicle from the states or if not purchase one on base. Because my apartment would be off base, the curfew would have little to no effect on me and my life. I could come and go as I please and my guests could also do the same. My level of privacy would incerse 100 fold. My chain of command would have a difficult time obtaining the rights to inspect my off-post quarters, and for that there would need to be a very good reason… more so than in the barracks: “it’s thursday, we’re going to inspect tomorrow.” Also, while being command sponsored, I will be able to stay in Korea much longer than any of my single, unmarried soldier friends.
As I’ve tried to point out, the incentive for me and my fellow soldiers to get married while stationed in Korea is huge. Take my example, or compare the quality of life of a young soldier you know that is single vs. one of the same rank that is married.
I think this may lead to a premature decision to marry, leading to an eventual divorce.
I’m just throwing that out there. Any thoughts?
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December 8th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Bingo! That’s definitely another reason, and there was hard evidence of that in the number of abandoned spouses in Korea after 2BCT deployed to Iraq and returned to Carson. The Soldiers no longer had an incentive to stay married, and a lot of the wives returned to their juicy girl jobs when they lost the fringe benefits of being married to a Soldier.
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December 8th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I’d hate to limit that to just juicy girls. There’s plenty of Korean women with more respectable jobs that get married to soldiers as well.
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December 8th, 2009 at 11:24 am
I’m not limiting it to juicy girls; I’m just saying that the 2BCT phenomenon was highlighted by juicy girls.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:20 am
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December 8th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Exactly. The QoL as a single soldier is horrific compared to the married guys. The Army really stretch’s out there to help “family’s” but doesn’t do squat for single unmarried soldiers. And making rank doesn’t assist much with that as BEQ’s are only slightly better then SSQ’s. I think the biggest difference was that I had more privacy in the BEQ’s and the command tends to leave you alone and not bother you. But still the small room, the curfew, the inability to have my (then) GF stay the night with me which forced us to sleep in motels if we wanted special time. The no driving at first seems a non-issue with the amount of public transportation / taxi’s available, but after getting a car I wouldn’t give it up again.
I can kinda understand the pay difference though, that extra money is for the additional expense’s of maintaining a household and feeding / providing for a wife. Of course the single soldiers don’t even have the option to choose that.
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December 9th, 2009 at 10:03 am
I understand what you said BUT—It should be equal work beans equal pay.
I know of no other occupation where you get payed “extra” if your married.
“The QoL as a single soldier is horrific compared to the married guys.” I could not agree more.
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10:00 am on December 8th, 2009 3
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December 8th, 2009 at 11:55 am
That was really helpful Mr. Troll!
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December 9th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Listen “chris in Dallas” I have been one of the main commenters here at the Drop, (I have even heard) that people follow my words almost the same as they follow the bible. Who are you? You are just a “Drive by” commenter. A one trick pony who makes a snide comment and never comes back (under the same name).
They are called juciy for a reasson. They have tons and tons of juice. The juice has the aroma and flavor of sweet nector. I have been there and done that. Can you say that?
No? then off with you troll, never come back.
BEEN THERE DONE THAT.
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1:31 pm on December 8th, 2009 4
WOW..I am glad i have come across this page. I have found out alot of information that I personally had no clue about. I am a wife to a soldier who is actually stationed in Korea..Camp Casey to be exact. From my reading I do believe divorce is really high do to the juicy girls, however, i won’t put all the blame on them. A man knows right from wrong, they make the decisions to go ahead and be apart of this type of activity or not.As soon as my husband went over to Korea, I noticed he was distant with his letters, emails and calls but not only that, his money was coming and going and i’ve seen all different club and bar names on our bank statements..Once i searched around to see what these places where, i was told about these girls. It’s no surprise that it would have happened, hello im across the state with our son, how would i notice he was doing something odd? However, I did file for divorce and am still waiting for it to be final..thank god! One little problem we had in our marriage, lead him to find comfort in a juicy girls arms..living proof, he posts his and her pics on his page..go figure, it didn’t take him long to fall in love and propose to her. But good luck to all the soldiers who fall in the little traps these women put out..I wish them all the best of luck.
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December 8th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Your son is fortunate to have a smart, courageous, and independent mother. Best wishes to both of you in your new lives.
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December 8th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
THANK YOU SONAGI!
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December 9th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Just to stir the pot abit; you should see the wives showing up at the bars in Killeen tx when their “soldier boy” is deployed.
Or my good friend in 2ID who got an email from his neighbor about a red pickup that was in his driveway quite often.
He had the neighbor take pictures and returned from midtour leave with divorse in hand. Thanks to the pictures he was able to keep his house and pay. The only thing he lost was a cheating wife.
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6:07 pm on December 8th, 2009 5
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2:06 am on December 9th, 2009 6
The juicy’s and Trap Door Spiders aren’t all to blame. A lot of Joes don’t have the will power to keep it in their pants.
It ain’t all their fault though. At any army installation in the states when an NTC deployment comes or rotation to the Desert comes then the girls go out and play. When I was at Ft Eustis in Virginia when the Navy fleet would go out to sea there was so much trim at the clubs in Norfolk and VA Beach you couldn’t turn around without some chick wanting you to play Jody.
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4:34 am on December 9th, 2009 7
Something you do not hear about much is the military system of what a military wife should be is old and they won’t change it. Unlike the old days a wife was a housewife who stayed home or in their spare time did what the military wanted them to do. Things like volunteering for military community things. Now a lot of wives have education and have some very good jobs while stationed in the US. The husband gets an overseas assignment to a non-hostile area. What are they going to do, give up a high paying job in the US and go overseas and get a job as a cashier in the commissary or AAFES? GS jobs are usually programmed people in this GS system. I knew of a lady who had a job making $75,000 a year and divorced her husband because she did not want to give up her position. Most are married to officer, but you do not hear about this.
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December 11th, 2009 at 8:19 am
Excellent point. I saw a lot of spouses climbing the walls because they had some education and no way to use it. Nobody off post is going to hire them given such folks are more or less temps. Getting a traditional job on post (DoD, AAFES, etc.) is a bureaucratic nightmare and tend to be low paying.
I don’t recall ever seeing a couple divorce over this. However, I saw a number of Soldiers quit the Army in part because their wives didn’t want to be Hausfraus.
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8:42 am on December 9th, 2009 8
if wives are so worried about their husbands I dont understand why more of them dont join them in Korea….. women know when they marry someone in the military you will be moving all the time. even ones with the high paying jobs need to make sacrifices for their spouses. I have 2 BA’s and had a high paying job but still came with my husband here on his NON COMMAND sponsored tour. spouses can get OAH anywhere not just in the States. I live 2 hours away from my husband in Korea and it works. I have used my BAs to get me $50/hour teaching jobs. even if you dont want to work and just have a family, it is possible to live here with OAH. even if your husband has to live on base, he can still stay with you if you get a place nearby. Korea is a pretty developed country (even with it strange ways) living a year overseas even non command sponsored is worth it to be with your spouse! and hey why wouldnt you want to experience a new country?
my hubby just got another year non command sponsored at a new base but closer to me so it will be another year in the ROK!
I will go all over the world wherever he goes even when not command sponsored!
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December 9th, 2009 at 10:26 am
I think most enlisted wives are not as well off financially as you, or as well educated and employable as you.
Plus it is not encouraged by the Command. It would be a Non combatant evac nightmare should things heat up.
Understand?
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December 11th, 2009 at 8:33 am
I knew two Caucasian wives who joined their husbands in Korea in a non-command sponsored status. One loved the experience and the other acceptably coped with it. Both of them had college degrees which hint at a certain level of maturity and life experiences which tend to make one open minded. I couldn’t imagine a 19 year old spouse fresh off a farm in Kansas likely to have the skills to deal with Korea.
Evac is a good point. I remember we counseled all the Korean wives to keep open airplane tickets so they could get out if the fit hit the shan. Even if they didn’t or circumstances made self evac impossible, those women could easily fend for themselves by blending in and heading south. That is problematic for a native born American. I suppose a person like CGAL would be savvy enough to cope, but I have my doubts whether your standard model enlisted spouse could handle such drama.
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December 11th, 2009 at 9:54 am
in my opinion I really feel an evac is highly unlikely. there are over 15,000 english teachers here in the ROK who are not concerned about the north being a threat at all.
if you really want to be with your husband you will just come. even non university educated wives will still have an ok time here. it is all what you make. they still get to use all the base facilities and they can even drive with an international license! I feel a wife with no overseas experience will be ok, they could just stay in their neighbourhood if they wanted to.
December 11th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
CGAL
The 15,000 english teachers in the ROK are NOT the military’s responsibility like “military dependents” are. You have two BA degrees, so you should know that.
I knew a few troops that had korean wives from their FIRST tour, that did not want to spend the year in Korea with their men.
Who really WANTS to drive in Korea? I did, both military and civilian vehicles. In a “POV” if an accident does happen involving a foreigner, it is always the foreigner’s fault. If your connected with the military, your done.
Non university educated wives will stay in the house till hubby comes home, or worse yet and more likely find other’s wives to hang with.
Go to slot mechines with or just be depressed with. untill hubby goes to the field for a couple weeks, and she can really have some fun.
Yep, that “neighbourhood” would be alot of fun! I have lived off post. I wouldn’t want my wife to live there.
They don’t call american female soldiers “queen for a year” for no reason, in Korea.
Now if you speak the hangul well, and have blond hair, blue or green eyes and are slim, there are koreans that will pay you some big bucks to go on business meeting with them. No sex involved! But I’m sure you could get a very nice tip if you did.
Back to the DMZ heating up. Not likely—BUT WHAT IF IT DID?
It is always possible. If it did, Seoul is not the place to be. Those english teachers are toast the first 24 hours, along with most of Seoul.
The dependents would have to fly by military transport from Osan. Guess who is transported first. Command Sponsored of course. At least as long as order is maintained. The non command sponsored are SOL. Their husbands are not there with them. They have a job to do.
Of course there is a list of the NCS. But they are spread out in town. Would take time and manpower to round them up. To think that all would go well and no one would be missed is naive.
The WAR never ended. There is no peace treaty. Just the longest cease fire in known history.
They do war games every year. Not because it is fun, but because it could happen — tonight.
It is called a “Hardship tour” for a reason. I would not want my wife there, if I trusted her. If I didn’t trust her, it wouldn’t matter. She would mess around no matter.
I’ve seen um in the bars outside Campbell, Hood and Korea. I’ve dated some. They always say they are divorced.
Spent nine years in Korea.
Saw more guys cry over “dear John” letters and emails than I ever thought possible.
Heard more women brag about how much they got from their divorce than I wanted to hear.
4:50 am on December 12th, 2009 9
retired gi:
you are looking at everything from a military perspective…………I was just trying to give a non GI view. I lived in Korea for 3 years prior to marrying, the girls you are talking about being a queen for a year are military girls. even if you are not educated there are still things that you can do here; volunteer, join the numerous expat groups…..etc
being in korea is not a hardship in any way IMO. have you ever been to areas further then a 5km radius outside of a base? all the things you described above are not really a factor once you leave the area around the bases. there is no rule that you can not live a 20 minute drive/bus from the base.
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December 12th, 2009 at 6:48 am
“being in korea is not a hardship in any way” I agree! Nor was it a hardship for me. BUT it was for most of the Troops I knew. Also, tell the Military, as they are the ones that declared it a hardship tour. You and I seem to be special.
“have you ever been to areas further than 5km redius outside the base?” Oh, so your in attack mode! Yes i have, as I’m sure Sorak Mountain is abit further. Two or three amusement parks. I’ve also had a few korean friends take me to their homes over the holidays and spent the weekend with them and their parents in some very small but nice apartments. With two degrees, I would have thought you would understand when I wrote that I stayed in korea
N I N E — Y E A R S and had a POV. Did you even notice that I wrote about my (off post apartment)? I also spent time at the Orphanage that the unit supported. Became quite attached to them.
As far as a non GI view goes, any WIFE or other dependent will be living in a GI environment. Her life will be subject to a GI life because she is married to a —– GI.
He will have 24 hour duty, two week and four week field exexcises. Unless he is 11B, and then it will be more. I REALLY hope she likes to volunteer.
“the girls you are talking about being queen for a year are military girls.”
To be honest, it applies to ANY female of non asian decent, who for whatever reason, finds herself in that location. You need not be in the military, but most are as Command Sponsored wives were few and seldom seen. Except for that one that would drive around base in her red convertible corvette with her blond hair in the wind. THAT was something we didn’t see every day. I believe she was bored. There was the one that I took Korean Language class with at the ACS building. Of course the Teacher was a dependent (command sponsored wife) but she was korean and had a BA in something. Not the norm at all. None, the dependent of enlisted personnel.
So yes. I am looking at it from a military perspective.
It is a Military assignment. Not a Tourist trip, that last a year.
Note: I never found a 20 minute drive or 20 minutes on a korean bus to be something I would call — fun — as a rule. Some were however, interesting.
As I said, I enjoyed Korea. But I enjoyed it for the same reason that others hated it. It was so different.
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December 13th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
just because you are married to a GI doesnt mean you will be in a GI environment 24/7 while living in the ROK. It is what you choose it to be. I only use the base for grocery shopping and getting gas, nothing else. I go there maybe twice a month. I do everything else including medical in korea. The nearest base to us is about 20kms, maybe more.
Even if you are here on an assignment it is possible to experience an expat life and not so much a military life if that is what you want.
there are plenty of things wives can do during the day/weeks that their husbands are not around that is not just volunteer; take up a new hobby, online courses, make friends with the locals….etc. shit, my husband has left twice for 6weeks at a time in the last 7 months!
I have lived in over 10 countries before marrying without relying on the military and have met numerous people who do not have a university degree do the same.
I am just saying that it is possible and can be an option to join your husband here if it is not a command sponsored tour. I know it is not for everyone, but it shouldnt be put out there that it is not possible. time away from spouses can wreck marriages and having options like this is nice to know about.
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6:35 am on December 12th, 2009 10
>there are over 15,000 English teachers here in the ROK who are not concerned about the north being a threat at all<
I suggest that they stick to teaching English, and leave the intel estimates to someone else.
It's nice having someone to worry about that for them, so they don't have to.
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6:50 am on December 12th, 2009 11
I think Korea is a great test of a marriage. When I was first stationed in Korea, every single married or engaged person in my shop either broke up or got a divorce.
The most achingly obvious explanation was that the relationships were very tenuous in the first place, once these people separated that weakness was exposed very quickly.
The military is very hard on relationships, marriages, etc. I know of very few that were successes.
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3:00 pm on January 12th, 2010 12
[...] a statistical control wold be appropriate – military families and military divorces. Per this article, the military divorce rate for was 3.6 percent for the year ending Sept 30 2009, compared to 2.6 [...]
5:09 am on February 3rd, 2010 13
No discussion of military women, My wife of 17 years has been in Korea for 10 months and it has been the worst 10 months of our marriage, There is NOTHING to do over there but go out to the 118 bars in songtan and drink. My wife never ever went to bars before and it has been making me crazy thinking of her out till 3am getting drunk surrounded by a bunch of drunken men. There have been major issues about all this but I think with 2 months left to go we will get thru it.
If we didnt reach some sort of compramise on her going out so often she would have been coming home to a whole different life.1 important thing that helped a lot was I had a ton of airmiles and was able to go over there a couple times and she was able to come home on the midtour. Korea sucks for marriages plain and simple.
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February 3rd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
if she told you the onlything to do her was to drink then she lied. There is so much more that you can do here hten hitting the bars every night. I am only with my husband on the weekends and maybe once in a while I might go to a bar on a week day (never in songtan). I keep busy during the week with so many other projects, exercising, wine nights with the girls or just hanging out at home.
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7:21 am on February 3rd, 2010 14
Jay,
Thanks for allowing me to be there for your wife…hell she was there for everyone. There IS much to do and see with out drinking or going to the clubs. BTW if a marriage is not strong in the first place the cracks will soon become a split.
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February 3rd, 2010 at 7:56 am
wow what an asshole!
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7:59 am on March 4th, 2010 15
First of all I’m going on my second reup with my husband and we have had some ups and downs like anyone else, but when things get to the point of divorce all his command says is ok hurry up and get the papers and get what you need done. So is there any question why the rates are getting higher. I had to take things in my own hands and let me tell you what a pain that was because tri care only would cover individual therapy sessions, and I had to ask if my husband could come. The only way he could be there was for emotional support not to fix his and mine issues.So anyways thank God we worked through it, and with NO help from the military beside providing me with tri care.All I can say is that I hope someone sees this and can address this issue, and make people try to get help before you just hurry and get papers.
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March 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
What are you suggesting? That the supervisor or commander order your husband to go to marriage counseling with you? That’s no more their role than it would be for a boss or a manager in a civilian company.
If one of my people were having marital problems, I would tell him or her to handle their business, whether through a lawyer or the chaplain is not my call. If it did escalate to calls to the police for domestic violence, then the military can issue a No Contact order that is only binding on the military member but not the spouse.
I’ve worked in offices where shrill wives would call their separated husband over 10 times a day, shrieking into the phone demanding to talk to him and he wants nothing more to do it her.
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