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	<title>Comments on: NY Times Columnist Gail Collins going naked on the use of Civilian Contractors</title>
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	<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/</link>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-381139</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-381139</guid>
		<description>Gerry: I arrived at &quot;Joplin&quot; in December 1974 and stayed until December 1975. Lt. Col. Foster (I believe, have to check my APRs) was the CC. My reporting official was Lt. O&#039;Brien. Housed for a couple of months in the quonsets, then moved to Bayside. Great memories and still plenty of names remembered. Come back. Over. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerry: I arrived at &quot;Joplin&quot; in December 1974 and stayed until December 1975. Lt. Col. Foster (I believe, have to check my APRs) was the CC. My reporting official was Lt. O&#039;Brien. Housed for a couple of months in the quonsets, then moved to Bayside. Great memories and still plenty of names remembered. Come back. Over.</p>
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		<title>By: gerry</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377745</link>
		<dc:creator>gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377745</guid>
		<description>With all due respect to contractors, I particulairly enjoyed it when they would get some excellent cooks for the clubs or mess hall. Made life so much better. I know on several occasions in Vietnam and Taiwan the chefs were superb. Even when I was stationed at &#039;Palgongsan&#039; radar site in 1974, the Korean chefs were excellant. 
 
Some of the guys got permission from the Korean site commander to hunt &#039;Pheasant&#039; on the mountain and came back after a weekend with enough to provide Pheasant with our Turkey dinner at Thanksgiving. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect to contractors, I particulairly enjoyed it when they would get some excellent cooks for the clubs or mess hall. Made life so much better. I know on several occasions in Vietnam and Taiwan the chefs were superb. Even when I was stationed at &#039;Palgongsan&#039; radar site in 1974, the Korean chefs were excellant.</p>
<p>Some of the guys got permission from the Korean site commander to hunt &#039;Pheasant&#039; on the mountain and came back after a weekend with enough to provide Pheasant with our Turkey dinner at Thanksgiving.</p>
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		<title>By: someotherguy</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377697</link>
		<dc:creator>someotherguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377697</guid>
		<description>Umm what contractors are you talking about?  $80K minimum?  Do you think we&#039;re the UAW or something? 
 
The amount paid depends on the job required and the supply / demand of the skill sets needed.  The companies make money by paying out the least to get the most productivity.  After the pay all the expenses whatever is left is the companies profit, some contracts make butt loads of money, some make very little, and some even loose money (but are kept anyway because they have a growth opportunity). 
 
We get paid whatever the market will bear, if there are a thousand guys looking for a job but only 10 jobs available, then the starting pay will be rather low.  But if there is a shortage of qualified people (there often is) then the pay will be a bit higher.  And companies don&#039;t like loosing their most qualified people, so they tend to pay you more over a period of time and give you more perks. 
 
Technically we&#039;re not &quot;contractors&quot;, as most of us have ~zero~ control of the actual contract.  We&#039;re just &quot;at will&quot; employees of a private company.  The US Government, and sometimes the host nation governments are our clients. 
 
If you want a job contracting, do you have the skill sets required?  The security clearance?  The background experience?  If you have these things then the job is just as open to you as anyone else.  You can drop your resume on the MANY places.  Better yet if you would stop the hating on contractors and instead make close friends of a few they can put in character references when vacancies become available.  Personal character references are preferred over resume farming whenever possible. 
 
The only place&#039;s where contracting makes an obscene about of money is in the desert.  And that is because of the incredible difficulty in finding people willing to go there for six months to a year to perform a job.  They have to jack the pay up that high or it would be impossible to fill the man power requirements. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Umm what contractors are you talking about?  $80K minimum?  Do you think we&#039;re the UAW or something?</p>
<p>The amount paid depends on the job required and the supply / demand of the skill sets needed.  The companies make money by paying out the least to get the most productivity.  After the pay all the expenses whatever is left is the companies profit, some contracts make butt loads of money, some make very little, and some even loose money (but are kept anyway because they have a growth opportunity).</p>
<p>We get paid whatever the market will bear, if there are a thousand guys looking for a job but only 10 jobs available, then the starting pay will be rather low.  But if there is a shortage of qualified people (there often is) then the pay will be a bit higher.  And companies don&#039;t like loosing their most qualified people, so they tend to pay you more over a period of time and give you more perks.</p>
<p>Technically we&#039;re not &quot;contractors&quot;, as most of us have ~zero~ control of the actual contract.  We&#039;re just &quot;at will&quot; employees of a private company.  The US Government, and sometimes the host nation governments are our clients.</p>
<p>If you want a job contracting, do you have the skill sets required?  The security clearance?  The background experience?  If you have these things then the job is just as open to you as anyone else.  You can drop your resume on the MANY places.  Better yet if you would stop the hating on contractors and instead make close friends of a few they can put in character references when vacancies become available.  Personal character references are preferred over resume farming whenever possible.</p>
<p>The only place&#039;s where contracting makes an obscene about of money is in the desert.  And that is because of the incredible difficulty in finding people willing to go there for six months to a year to perform a job.  They have to jack the pay up that high or it would be impossible to fill the man power requirements.</p>
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		<title>By: Retired GI</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377672</link>
		<dc:creator>Retired GI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377672</guid>
		<description>I do believe you contractors are paid quite well. 
What is it?  $80,000.00 minimum to over 100K depending on the skills. 
You are well paid when compared to all soldiers, regardless of rank. 
 
By the way, are you hiring? 
 
I don&#039;t care that &quot;the actual concern from the US Military is near zero&quot;. 
I felt the same way when I was IN UNIFORM.  So it wouldn&#039;t be a big change, except for a HUGE pay increase.  I would be happy with that for a year or two. 
 
Where do I send my resume?  I&#039;ll be disposable for one year of that pay! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do believe you contractors are paid quite well.</p>
<p>What is it?  $80,000.00 minimum to over 100K depending on the skills.</p>
<p>You are well paid when compared to all soldiers, regardless of rank.</p>
<p>By the way, are you hiring?</p>
<p>I don&#039;t care that &quot;the actual concern from the US Military is near zero&quot;.</p>
<p>I felt the same way when I was IN UNIFORM.  So it wouldn&#039;t be a big change, except for a HUGE pay increase.  I would be happy with that for a year or two.</p>
<p>Where do I send my resume?  I&#039;ll be disposable for one year of that pay!</p>
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		<title>By: someotherguy</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377670</link>
		<dc:creator>someotherguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377670</guid>
		<description>Hmm disposable, that really sums it up.  Once a contract is completed or no longer needed / funded we&#039;re basically left to fend for ourselves.  If we have some years in at our company and have proven to be a valuable asset, they will often find another position somewhere to employ us.  But the actual concern from the US Military is near ~zero~.  Contract finished, what to do with the personal is up to the contracted companies HR departments.  If a unit is disbanded, or a section goes through &quot;transformation&quot; the Military has to figure out what to do with its personal, and it can&#039;t offer them a job at less pay. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm disposable, that really sums it up.  Once a contract is completed or no longer needed / funded we&#039;re basically left to fend for ourselves.  If we have some years in at our company and have proven to be a valuable asset, they will often find another position somewhere to employ us.  But the actual concern from the US Military is near ~zero~.  Contract finished, what to do with the personal is up to the contracted companies HR departments.  If a unit is disbanded, or a section goes through &quot;transformation&quot; the Military has to figure out what to do with its personal, and it can&#039;t offer them a job at less pay.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeC</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377623</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377623</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately, it&#039;s these writers who get to shape public opinion. When most Americans gear contractors for the military, they think Blackwater or KBR (aka Halliburton); trigger happy mercenaries operating outside of any system of law and control, or companies with political connections that get billion dollar no-bid contracts to do substandard work that results in GIs being electrocuted when they take a shower. 
 
It&#039;s not going to be easy changing that perception. Going home and telling people you are a contractor for the military today is like going home and telling people you are a soldier in the closing years of the Vietnam War. They would more likely want to spit on you than shake your hand. 
 
When people hear that we employ as many contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan as uniformed troops, they don&#039;t hear that most of them are host nation employees or from south Asian countries. 
 
When they are kidnapped or killed, we may never hear of it. They don&#039;t show up on any death tolls. There won&#039;t be any monuments of memorials made for them outside their own families. 
 
When people ask why we need contractors, I cite experience, expertise, and continuity. They are supposed to be ready, able and qualified to do the job on day one. They can be made available for as long as the job is necessary. 
 
They are disposable yet indispensable assets. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, it&#039;s these writers who get to shape public opinion. When most Americans gear contractors for the military, they think Blackwater or KBR (aka Halliburton); trigger happy mercenaries operating outside of any system of law and control, or companies with political connections that get billion dollar no-bid contracts to do substandard work that results in GIs being electrocuted when they take a shower.</p>
<p>It&#039;s not going to be easy changing that perception. Going home and telling people you are a contractor for the military today is like going home and telling people you are a soldier in the closing years of the Vietnam War. They would more likely want to spit on you than shake your hand.</p>
<p>When people hear that we employ as many contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan as uniformed troops, they don&#039;t hear that most of them are host nation employees or from south Asian countries.</p>
<p>When they are kidnapped or killed, we may never hear of it. They don&#039;t show up on any death tolls. There won&#039;t be any monuments of memorials made for them outside their own families.</p>
<p>When people ask why we need contractors, I cite experience, expertise, and continuity. They are supposed to be ready, able and qualified to do the job on day one. They can be made available for as long as the job is necessary.</p>
<p>They are disposable yet indispensable assets.</p>
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		<title>By: 2dogs</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377617</link>
		<dc:creator>2dogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377617</guid>
		<description>Yeah- I&#039;D want some of these clowns with drug and non-HS grad waivers guarding the embassy if I was the ambassador.... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah- I&#039;D want some of these clowns with drug and non-HS grad waivers guarding the embassy if I was the ambassador&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: GI Korea</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377611</link>
		<dc:creator>GI Korea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377611</guid>
		<description>The State Dept. already has civil service body guards known as the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and as Leon points out when these folks get killed they get included on the body count stats while a security contractor does not.  The US embassies around the world also have US Marines that work at them as well but they are just small detachments.  In non-war zone countries the embassies are augmented with private security contractors usually from the host country as well. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The State Dept. already has civil service body guards known as the Bureau of Diplomatic Security and as Leon points out when these folks get killed they get included on the body count stats while a security contractor does not.  The US embassies around the world also have US Marines that work at them as well but they are just small detachments.  In non-war zone countries the embassies are augmented with private security contractors usually from the host country as well.</p>
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		<title>By: gerry</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377606</link>
		<dc:creator>gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377606</guid>
		<description>Face the basic fact that this woman like many &#039;talking heads&#039; has led a very sheltered life. She grew up in middle America, never served in the military went to collage and got her degree. 
 
She knows about world history and the people who made it from her high school and collage teachers, most who were never in the military or even left their home except to move to Colorado for a few years, or wherever. 
 
Now she got a job with a newspaper, and become a respected colomnist. 
 
Bottom line is she has led a very sheltered life, and understands little of the reality of the world. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Face the basic fact that this woman like many &#039;talking heads&#039; has led a very sheltered life. She grew up in middle America, never served in the military went to collage and got her degree.</p>
<p>She knows about world history and the people who made it from her high school and collage teachers, most who were never in the military or even left their home except to move to Colorado for a few years, or wherever.</p>
<p>Now she got a job with a newspaper, and become a respected colomnist.</p>
<p>Bottom line is she has led a very sheltered life, and understands little of the reality of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Leon LaPorte</title>
		<link>http://rokdrop.com/2009/12/12/ny-times-columnist-gail-collins-going-naked-on-the-use-of-civilian-contractors/comment-page-1/#comment-377604</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon LaPorte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rokdrop.com/?p=18109#comment-377604</guid>
		<description>Lets not forget another fact. Soldiers come home in flag draped coffins. Soldiers get included on the daily CNN body count. Contractors don&#039;t register. Contractors don&#039;t get SGLI. Contractors don&#039;t have to worry so much about their next PT test, yadda yadda. Contractors are the easy way out. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lets not forget another fact. Soldiers come home in flag draped coffins. Soldiers get included on the daily CNN body count. Contractors don&#039;t register. Contractors don&#039;t get SGLI. Contractors don&#039;t have to worry so much about their next PT test, yadda yadda. Contractors are the easy way out.</p>
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