By I never even knew these scopes had Bible verses on them:
For more than 20 years, rifle optics manufacturer Trijicon Inc. has been etching Biblical references onto U.S. troops’ scopes.
The practice went seemingly unnoticed until controversy erupted in recent days with an outcry from religious rights advocates. The Military Religious Freedom Foundation says the references give insurgents a chance to claim the U.S. is waging a holy war.
Trijicon’s Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight, for example, contains the marking “JN8:12,” a reference to the Bible verse John:8:12 “When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.’” [Army Times]
I seriously doubt the Taliban knew these scopes had Bible verses on them. Now that the media is publicizing it now they do know. Trijicon will probably now have take the inscriptions off. Bottom line though is that military equipment should have never had Bible verses on them in the first place.
4:30 pm on January 21st, 2010 1
I don't know what kind of Love Thy Neighbor crap they put on scopes these days… but this is the one they need.
Deuteronomy 7:1-2
"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations… then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy."
20:10-17 is good, too…
"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves… This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. "
I just can't understand why these people loath and fear Christianity and the Western nations who speak of Love and Peace while waging war in God's name.
4:52 pm on January 21st, 2010 2
Pot, meet kettle
I like this one:
Luke 12:51 – Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luke 12:52 – For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
King James Bible
Hell yeah! Peace and LOVE!!!
10:30 pm on January 21st, 2010 3
I think the stated reason for bring this public fails to rise to the level of a serious issue. seriously, if after twenty years of layiny, unseen, in plain sight, why bother with it now? Both Trijicon Inc and the Army should stand their ground. As for the Albuquerque-based Military Religious Freedom Foundation I would hold them financially accountable for injuries ir deaths this media stunt creates.
10:30 pm on January 21st, 2010 4
must learn to proof read before posting!
11:37 pm on January 21st, 2010 5
I think the worst that could happen is the Afghans and Iraqis might now refuse to use the sights, much like the <a href="http://www.bing.com/search?q=British+bullets+pig+fat+India" rel="nofollow">Indians refused to use British bullets. They're using mainly iron sights on their small arms anyways.
4:13 am on January 22nd, 2010 6
The bible verses should not have been on the equipment.
Period.
End of Story.
Personally, I don't care how christian the owner of the company is, wants to be, or how important it is to spread his beliefs. He's supposed to manufacture a piece of equipment for the military. If he wants to spread his belief system, then he needs to get the contract to print bibles.
It is not a free speech issue either. This is contract law.
I can guarantee you that nowhere in the contract specifications to build these sights, is a sentence, paragraph, or diagram requesting that the serial numbers have a requirement for bible verses being included.
And since it appears that the contract specifications have not been met, I think the manufacturer needs to take every single one of these sights back, grind off the extra lettering and ship them back.
At the contractors expense.
To include the expense of the paperwork needed to be done by all supply levels.
On a more personal note, I am wondering how hypocritical this person is, claiming to spread the word of God by placing it on something used for killing.
Boggles the mind.
7:45 am on January 22nd, 2010 7
Agreed.
"…I am wondering how hypocritical this person is, claiming to spread the word of God by placing it on something used for killing."
I do not see this as hypocritical, quite the contrary. The word of the gods put forward by the major three Mediterranean Death Cults, mostly dreamed up during the bronze age, celebrate death. Both yours and your fellow man and especially those who do not believe as you do or stray from the narrowly defined yet morally ambiguous path. These are angry, jealous and vengeful gods we are talking about. Those words appear often in these ancient, and often incoherent, scribblings describing god. Yet, people chose to think they are living their lives by the inerrant word of god when to do exactly that would land one in prison or worse (and rightly so). No one can do it yet excuses are made, and accepted, that would be unacceptable and intellectual suicide under any other circumstances. It's sad but the world is slowly changing. As there is more hope in this life people need worry less and console themselves that the misery of today will be replaced by joy tomorrow. Truly, if there were a god I would thank it if only there were no religion.
8:17 am on January 22nd, 2010 8
If you want no religion Leon, just go back in time to European Soviet Russia and live in the Atheist paradise.
8:24 am on January 22nd, 2010 9
I don't think atheism was the main problem with the Soviets, they had many other, larger, problems. Thumpers like to tout that but lack of superstition was not the cause of that governments failure. Besides, there is no longer such a thing so you will have to pick on "god haters" some other, perhaps more creative way. But I do see your venom rising.
8:28 am on January 22nd, 2010 10
…and if you dig religion so much, just go to live in the religious, and theocratic, paradises spread throughout the middle east and Africa. No need to travel through time. Just think, if we were there you could likely have me flogged or stoned to death. Praise the Lord!
11:57 am on January 22nd, 2010 11
I did ot say I was a thumper nor implied it. And no thanks, Im glad to live in the west where I can choose to have religion or not. I would hate to see a world where religion is banned almost as much as a world where a particualr one was enforced. Did not know I hit such a button there with you.
12:03 pm on January 22nd, 2010 12
"Just think, if we were there you could likely have me flogged or stoned to death. Praise the Lord!"– You as well as me , along with the Christians, buddhists, Jews and all non muslim infidels would be stoned together in that case.
12:19 pm on January 22nd, 2010 13
Could have happened under the Christians a few centuries ago in the west as well. Anytime religion gains political power, it becomes even more evil than it already is. and that was a rhetorical "you". Cheers!
12:22 pm on January 22nd, 2010 14
No buttons pushed, thanks!
I merely stated 'thumpers like to throw that card out there, never meant to imply you are one.
/… as with all posts often my "you's" as it were are rhetorical and not meant to be personal. I should use the more correct and less personal "one" in these types discourse but it seems a little preachy to me. (yes pun fully intended)
Thanks for being a grown up listener!
12:25 pm on January 22nd, 2010 15
No need to "ban" religion, just make the completely silly basis of its claims well-known (and get rid of its tax breaks!). Then, it should wither away – except in trailer parks, the American South, and similar bastions of critical thought. If it can't stand on its own, I guess "God" isn't really behind it, eh?
12:36 pm on January 22nd, 2010 16
Concur. I do not favor banning religion any more than I would consider banning McDonald's french fries. Neither are good for us but some people like them, and they are about as relevant to the human condition. Except you can prove the existence of a fry and for the most people people generally do not kill each other over them.
The tax free status is a sham and of course should be withdrawn. There are many more of us out here than people think but many fear the stigma and repercussions of our beliefs (or more precisely our lack of beliefs) being known so to speak.
2:37 pm on January 22nd, 2010 17
Contract Law? You're crazy. You have no idea what the contract specified could or could not be engraved on the scope. Seeing as how these verses are engraved on all Trijicon scopes, not just the ones purchased by the US military, the contract would have to specify taking the verses out of the process for those production lots. Furthermore, you would have thought the military would actually inspect the equipment they were purchasing, at least for quality control; at some point during that process someone must have noticed the engraving and not been too concerned. Please don't try to hide your anti-religious fanaticism behind a shroud of something as clear cut as contract law. As far as contract law goes, nothing has been shown that implicates the company for doing anything illegal.
4:06 pm on January 22nd, 2010 18
So what you are saying is that the US military should kill all the men and rape all the women and children it comes across.
Go kill yourself you piece of shit.
5:29 pm on January 22nd, 2010 19
Jeez- you're SUCH a hater.
5:33 pm on January 22nd, 2010 20
Methinks you protest too much.
The ones that are crying and wailing about it most are 1) an American -and quite JEWISH- attorney, and 2) the usual suspects from CAIR.
Betcha the Muslim troopies in A'stan and Iraq don't give two shits, after-wiped with their own hands, about this. Most of them I met were not at all hostile toward Christians or Christianity, but most were pretty curious because we were the first non-Moslems that they had ever met. Neither side proselytized the other.
The "we have to be careful lest we offend these very religious people" is so much horse chit.
5:35 pm on January 22nd, 2010 21
And the end of the story is that Trijicon agreed to send out kits to remove the verse references, and that they won't build anymore with that on them.
Kinda like "shaking the dust from your sandals" when you go into a home which won't receive you.
7:18 pm on January 22nd, 2010 22
You are targeting Christianity only. The only Victor in the war against religion will not be the Atheist. Only the Islamic maniac or Jewish influence stability.
7:35 pm on January 22nd, 2010 23
[...] more here: Trijicon Scopes Criticized for Inscribed Bible Verses | ROK Drop Share and [...]
7:36 pm on January 22nd, 2010 24
[...] this article: Trijicon Scopes Criticized for Inscribed Bible Verses | ROK Drop Share and [...]
9:19 pm on January 22nd, 2010 25
Someday we'll all have to answer for what we've said or done, or not said and done. Some of us should reflect on this and reconsider any hostile attitudes and actions as well as venomous words, from whatever point on the compass rose we hail from…
1:32 am on January 23rd, 2010 26
I think most people will agree that it's offensive.
2:16 am on January 23rd, 2010 27
TokyoJesusFist obviously missed what I took as sarcasm in ChickenHead's post.
I hesitate to be part of another religious flame war here, but I can't help it. I want to expand on what I think ChickenHead was saying.
Some people point at Islam and say it's a religion of hate, while Christianity is a religion of peace. I don't blame any religion for any of that. There is good in all religion, but unfortunately it has always also been a tool men use to manipulate others.
Since there is a Christian bias in the west, I spend more time criticizing Christians. If I were in the Middle East, I would be an equal bane to Muslims.
One of the things I've noticed about outspoken Christians is, you can tell a lot about them by what parts of the bible they tend to quote from; Old Testament or New Testament. Some of them don't appreciate the difference. If you are going to live your life according to the Old Testament, why even call yourself a Christian?
The god of the Old Testament came across as a vane, jealous and angry being, who was quick and severe in punishment. People lived in fear of it. People then, and still do, used religion as and instrument of fear and control.
It seems to me that the whole point of Christianity, was that it was a turn from what was before. While the New Testament gospel writers have different spins on Christ's message, I believe the core of it was about a god of love, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness.
So the questions to Christians are, are you Old Testament or New Testament? Do you fear your god?
2:40 am on January 23rd, 2010 28
tokyojesusfist,
"So what you are saying is that the US military should kill all the men and rape all the women and children it comes across.
Go kill yourself you piece of shit."
No. I did not say that. The bible said that. I was merely quoting.
3:28 am on January 23rd, 2010 29
Only to those who hate Christians. Not really for the average Moslem.
Are you offended by people with Haji hats and the sound of the call to prayer?
The Israelis seem to like their ACOGs just fine, as do the Iraqi Army guys who have them.
10:00 am on January 23rd, 2010 30
You have to stop looking at this from the perspective of an American evangelical Christian. Most Christians (the non-American kind, which are far more numerous than American evangelical Christians) most certainly find this offensive. Thou shalt not kill, remember?
10:03 am on January 23rd, 2010 31
The US military is mentioned in the Bible? You do know that Manifest Destiny is nonsense, right?
11:56 am on January 23rd, 2010 32
No- actually, they DON'T GIVE A SH*T. Are you hearing many complaints from any real troopies? The noise is coming from people who have the compelling need to be offended and draw attention to themselves.
To each his own, and let the other guy alone.
If there was an "N" word for Christians, people like you would be using it.
I'm not a particularly religious person; I don't make judgments on other people for their beliefs or lack thereof. Life's a journey.
11:56 am on January 23rd, 2010 33
Dear Trijicon,
Please inscribe my sight with…
"Help me blow heathens to hell for keeps
and pray the Lord their souls to reap.
May all jihadis die before my sights
for Trijicon has made them right."
Amen
1:10 pm on January 23rd, 2010 34
Mmm, right…and yet you take for granted I'm not Christian…Ironic.
1:11 pm on January 23rd, 2010 35
You want to blow heathens?
1:51 pm on January 23rd, 2010 36
Remember TokyoJesusfirst-
Jesus wrote the bible, man only penned it…..
"Here's your sign……"
1:58 pm on January 23rd, 2010 37
AMEM BROTHER!!!!
Don't forget to place 10% of your income in the plate and of course a sizable offering. The multi-million dollar church was built with the money given by low-income families who could have better spent it putting food in their children's mouths, shoes on their feet and a roof over their heads.
Geers and boos are greatly appreciated.
2:10 pm on January 23rd, 2010 38
Idiots, Idiots, Idiots
The contractor should never put biblical references on its products. How soon we forget. Our own govt, under the direction of GW Bush built this thing called the GBU-43/B. Its name: MOAB. Reference Moab in the bible and get back to me.
Don't forget that 10% plus offering.
3:09 pm on January 23rd, 2010 39
Actually, I don't care what you are. You are a whiner.
Having lived amongst several savage cultures, I invite you to do the same.
In an old British colony, there used to be a joke that went:
What is the difference between a tourist and a racist?
About a week.
You go man-kiss some of these fellows "over there" Granted, you will find a few who are OK fellows, indeed. Do not forget for a moment, that when it comes down to their tribe and yours, that some things never change.
Many of them hate us; this little white guilt thing didn't change a thing, for better or worse, except to make you little sanctimonious condescending f*ckwits piss your pants and shriek. I am rather enjoying it.
3:10 pm on January 23rd, 2010 40
To hell perhaps. Or you could try to find common ground while they punk you. Go for it! I want to watch.
3:11 pm on January 23rd, 2010 41
Yes it is. In fact, we should just give everything back to the people who killed other peoples before us to get it from them.
3:22 pm on January 23rd, 2010 42
I think it was "thou shalt not commit murder". If someone aims to do you harm, I do believe that it's fine to do what you have to do. Then again, I am not going to worry too much about what God, Jesus, Buddha, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster have to say when I am trying to stay alive to see another day- or doing the same for a friend or family member. In fact, I think I would be derelict in my duty if I let someone down who trusted me to cover them like a friend or family member.
Again- who cares what the touchy feely warm fuzzy Christians think? What are THEY going to do? Hold a protest and a boycott? Oh my!
I wonder if your sanctimonious attitude would take a turn in another direction if someone took your home and business away from you, perhaps after coming in the night and killing your family members. I think you might change your mind. Then again, some people exist to be bullied and pushed around by others. Maybe you are one of them.
I guess we all have our station in life.
3:50 pm on January 23rd, 2010 43
As long as that 10 percent goes to good gear!
All I need to know about Islam I learned on 9-11.
And if Teadrinker represents Christianity- no thanks. I would rather be an honest butt pirate than a sanctimonious condescending wanker who would let other people do the hard things which I am supposed to do.
No one here gets out alive but no need to keep bending over, grabbing our ankles, and taking it deep and hard for these stone age parasites.
In this particular case, I would say the Moslems hate, most of all, that the ACOG exists. They hate because it was produced in a manner and by a society, that, by its very existence, is everything they wish they could be but could never come close. They hate us because we are who we are. They hate us for our good because it is not theirs. They hate us for their failures because those failures are ours, not theirs.
What someone decided to use as part of a serial number won't change that one way or another. And again, none of the guys who bow to Mecca 5 times a day but who want to make a difference is bothered by this, only those who have a need to bear this annoying and tiresome western guilt complex. It's as annoying after awhile as the screech of nails on a black board.
I bet if the damn thing had a big rubber c0ck on it and said something about derriere connoisseurs, there would be people cheering about it and celebrating another "embrace diversity" moment. Of course, the Christians would be sh!tting themselves…
3:51 pm on January 23rd, 2010 44
Erratum- "they hate us for their failures because those failures are theirs, not ours". Apologies to the bar.
4:08 pm on January 23rd, 2010 45
Junior,
Can't you tell when someone is pulling your chain?
5:53 pm on January 23rd, 2010 46
"bending over, grabbing our ankles"
Limbaugh is fond of that metaphor too. What is it, a ceremonial thing or a rite of passage?
7:12 pm on January 23rd, 2010 47
I'm not as smart as you! You'll have to forgive me.
Plus- you never answered my coffee roaster question. Five point cut!
7:13 pm on January 23rd, 2010 48
Not a participant in such rituals. You'll have to ask a liberal!
7:55 pm on January 23rd, 2010 49
Teadrinker… don't be dense.
"The US military is mentioned in the Bible? You do know that Manifest Destiny is nonsense, right?"
No such thing was said.
I simply quoted Deuteronomy 7:1-2 and 20:10-17.
For those, such as tokyojesusfist and yourself, who misunderstand, let me state, once again, I did not write this. Moses did about 2500 years ago… or someone else did and claimed that Moses wrote it… or lots of people cobbled it together to justify current political goals. Whatever.
What should immediately jump to everyone's attention is that in the Islamic world there are political/religious leaders and "community organizers" who point to crap like this to show the uneducated and emotionally controllable population that Christianity is a Religion of War and is bent on the destruction of Islam.
Bush talking about God's will and scripture on scopes reinforces this much more than some whacko Islamic street preacher talking about 72 virgiins irritates the Christians.
How the United States can repeatedly do a fantastic job marketing mind-blowingly crappy "blockbuster" movies throughout the world yet fail so miserably at marketing itself to the Islamic world is beyond me.
11:16 am on January 25th, 2010 50
Coffee roaster question? I must have missed that one.