By Here is some big developing news coming out of Korea:
A South Korean Navy ship was sinking off the west coast near its maritime border with North Korea, officials here said Friday,
Officials also said South Korea fired a shot at an unidentified vessel toward the North.The 1,500-ton ship carrying 104 crew members went down around 9:45 p.m. near a South Korean island in the Yellow Sea, prompting an emergency meeting of security-related Cabinet ministers.
Seoul’s Navy officials refused to give details, but said a South Korean vessel fired at a ship toward the North later in the evening, indicating possibilities of a possible torpedo attack from the North. Local residents reported having heard gunfire for about 10 minutes from 11 p.m.
“The ship appears to have begun sinking after an explosion at the rear of the ship,” the Navy said in a statement. “We have been unable to find the exact cause of the incident as of this moment.”
The Navy said it has rescued 58 crew members during an ongoing rescue operation, but fears some may have died. [Yonhap]
According to KBS Global the ROK military is looking at whether this was a torpedo attack by the North Koreans against the ship. The island of Baengnyeong where this sinking happened is right along the disputed maritime border between the two countries known as the Northern Limit Line (NLL).
The North Koreans having been raising tensions for months along this maritime border because the South Korean government under President Lee Myung-bak has been refusing to continue the policy of unconditional aid to North Korea that prior liberal South Korean governments have offered. If this is a North Korean attack this wouldn’t be the first time this has occurred as an attempt to raise tensions between the two countries by the North Koreans along the NLL. In 2002 the North Koreans attacked a South Korean naval ship along the NLL that cost the lives of six sailors.
In recent weeks the South Korean government has refused to continue the joint tourism venture at the Geumgang Resort in North Korea due to a murder of a South Korean tourist by the North. In the past the Geumgang Resort has been a huge cash cow for the North Korean government. This possible attack could just be a negotiating tactic by the North Koreans that if business as usual with the unconditional aid to North Korea does not continue, that they are willing to continue to raise tensions by provoking incidents.
The only question now is whether the Lee Myung-bak government is going to fold against North Korean pressure like prior South Korean governments or stand up against him. The South Korean government and USFK will need to conduct careful coordination in response to if this was an attack, but I would be surprised personally if the Lee government gives into North Korean provocation.
I will provide updates on this developing story as more facts become available.
9:27 am on March 26th, 2010 1
Great post-just saw it on Twitter. How long have you been {blogging|writing}?
9:54 am on March 26th, 2010 2
There has been intense debate at the following forum what caused the ship to sink: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.p…
10:37 am on March 26th, 2010 3
My guess is North Korea is testing LMB to see how far it can push him. The North Koreans are desperate to give Kim Jong Il's successor some military credentials. Nuclear tests and missile launches are yesterday's news and the cause for international sanctions, so they are faced with the problem of coming up with something new.
By downplaying the incident, the South Korean government would be throwing North Korea a curve ball.
10:46 am on March 26th, 2010 4
proper reaction: blow up the mt geumsan reunion facilities the north are trying to shop around to the Chinese.
10:50 am on March 26th, 2010 5
Umm, If I recall correctly Didnt they try to sink a military ship just a few months ago but ended up getting their asses handed to them?
11:22 am on March 26th, 2010 6
My first reaction was that of an accident. An actual attack wether by mine or torpedo would be grounds for retaliation/war, against the North Koreans, and the loss of 40 crew, from South Korea, would justify it.
My mind in such an important outcome remains open. Hopefully it was an accident.
However if it was a deliberate attack from the North. Then appropriate measures should be taken.
11:39 am on March 26th, 2010 7
Meh, nothing to worry about; this stuff happens all the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_border_incid…
11:43 am on March 26th, 2010 8
This is actually a good idea. Although they wouldn't have to blow it up, just demolish the expensive buildings. How many Chinese tourists would flock to the mountain anyway?
11:44 am on March 26th, 2010 9
mm yes that's true.
11:46 am on March 26th, 2010 10
I'm pretty sure if this was the result of an attack – USFK would be on high alert and everyone who works on base would have been called into work.
As of Saturday 10:45am…it's sleepy hollow weekend on Yongsan Garrison.
12:50 pm on March 26th, 2010 11
Yes, it would be grounds for retaliation, but short of a war that will bring an end to the Kim regime, a military response will only provide the North Korean government with what it desperately needs, which is a means to divert attention away from the fact that the country won't become the economic powerhouse in 2012 (as promised by its own propaganda) and an opportunity to give military credentials to Kim Jong Il's inexperienced and little known successor.
12:54 pm on March 26th, 2010 12
Can't they just go on their own side, anyways? After all, North Korea basically gave away 70% of the mountain to China in the 60's. Yup, the North Korean government really doesn't give a damn about anything but itself.
2:10 pm on March 26th, 2010 13
All this talk of South Korean "retaliation" is a bunch of hog wash. Unless you consider effigy burning, flag-eating, or protests as "retaliation", nothing will happen from the South.
They'll be too busy protesting something else instead of being rightfully upset that their own countrymen have been killed (once again) by North Korean aggression.
4:37 pm on March 26th, 2010 14
The official explanation for now is that the ship probably hit a rock and the crew fired at a flock of birds thinking it was an air attack.
4:42 pm on March 26th, 2010 15
You people talk all you want. This makes me damn angry and I have not for doubt NK did this. Will they get away with it is my question. They did a bunch of shite like this and worse when Carter was in office.They were killing Americans and S Koreans on DMZ daily. WE had a few Incidents where WE made them stand down. After Reagan came in they got religion or respect because he allowed us to get ready to vent our anger. As long as your talking about things being business as usual forget them up North giving any respect. They have never changed and will not. I do not understand the military not being on full alert. Wow, Things have changed and not for the better. They only get it one way. Their way, and tolerate what they have to for rations, and trade. Oh GI, I know I am Politically incorrect but I am not Bill Maher master illusionist liberal. I hope my post is left alone. I'm angry but very rational. I don't understand why others are not pissed off. If That had of been an American ship would some of you be more angry? Maybe a dragon came out of the Ocean and right at that co ordinance and through a hot fireball through the ship.
4:58 pm on March 26th, 2010 16
Read it earlier, yet still nothing conclusive. North Korea is remaining silent. I suspect the next few days will reveal what happened.
5:21 pm on March 26th, 2010 17
???
Mt. Geumgang is located on the east coast of the peninsula near the North/South Korean border. It's no where near China.
5:21 pm on March 26th, 2010 18
Yes, everything we can say now is just speculation.
NK has been irresponsible and provocative in the past, but I doubt they would risk retaliation by sinking a military ship.
Although I did tell my wife today that if she ever sees NK artillery streaking through the skies of Seoul, to head for the subway. Hmm.
5:35 pm on March 26th, 2010 19
Wouldn't make more sense to find out what really happened first before going on a tirade and later look ridiculous when we find it was caused by something like a munitions handling mishap on the ship?
5:53 pm on March 26th, 2010 20
"If That had of been an American ship would some of you be more angry?"
The crew of the USS Liberty would probably say no…
Anger is a dangerous emotion to be feeling when dealing with a regiment who has 20 million people within heavy artillery range.
6:26 pm on March 26th, 2010 21
Apparently a government official has said they don't believe North Korea had anything to do with it.
Here is my take. While there are reports of a South Korean ship shooting at something to the north later, there weren't any reports that the ship that sunk was engaged in a fight. So, unless was in a fight and not reported, then it seems the explosion must have come as a surprise. Maybe North Korea has a new type of stealth ship.
I am reminded of the explosion in the gun turret of the USS Iowa battleship. Then there was the time the Russians accused us of torpedoing their submarine, the Kursk, but evidence showed it exploded from the inside out. These things happen.
6:31 pm on March 26th, 2010 22
P.S. Looking at the Korean news right now, they are still speculating it could also have hit a mine or a large rock.
7:45 pm on March 26th, 2010 23
It was the Chinese stealth submarine's torpedo. They wanted to test out their new capability, at the same time, help out their ally.
8:19 pm on March 26th, 2010 24
You are thinking about Baekdusan, and the Chinese do own half since the Norks were in no position to say no at the end of the Korean War. Geumgang is well within nK territory.
8:20 pm on March 26th, 2010 25
All submarines are steatlh Tom, that why they are submarines. But yes, a torpedo from a sub would do the trick.
8:33 pm on March 26th, 2010 26
I'm talking about this Chinese submarine that popped up in the middle of the US naval practice in 2007, Hamilton.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/Th…
I don't think North Koreans have this capability, or they could have bought one from China. Or it could have been the Chinese themselves.
10:01 pm on March 26th, 2010 27
[...] Drop has a post detailing some of the recent tensions with/provocations by North Korea. If this was indeed an [...]
10:08 pm on March 26th, 2010 28
Yeah, I misread that.
10:08 pm on March 26th, 2010 29
Ahh—NO. Unless your in the intel game. No sence spookin the troops.
10:13 pm on March 26th, 2010 30
Of course NK did it. As they have done much before. They want your anger. It will serve them better than it will serve you.
10:30 pm on March 26th, 2010 31
Possibly a silkworm? According to a post last July the North was test firing a few. "If anyone cares, North Korea just fired off some short range missiles into the Yellow Sea" http://rokdrop.com/2009/07/02/north-korea-conduct…
11:15 pm on March 26th, 2010 32
The glow of a silkworm missile coming at the ship at 9:45 at night should be obvious to anyone on watch or on deck. It probably would also be picked up by the ships radar and anti-missile warning system if it had one.
The captain of the ship was one of the survivors. That is more reason to believe that if the ship were under direct attack by North Koreans the military and government would know by now.
12:41 am on March 27th, 2010 33
I recommend everyone read my update to this incident here which includes news of what the survivors have to say:
http://rokdrop.com/2010/03/27/46-korean-sailors-s…
8:42 am on March 27th, 2010 34
But…by covering it up it would lose supporters.
8:46 am on March 27th, 2010 35
Probably no fewer than South Korean ones when it's operating. Besides, has it ever turned a profit?
10:08 am on March 27th, 2010 36
If nothing else it may shake up Seoul enough to understand the realities of what they face, and not like Roo did in downplaying everything and pretending love makes the world go round.
I expect LMB will play hardball and act appropriately in regards to the military. Most South Koreans are pragmatic, and will understand.
I still think it was an accidental mishap on board that caused the explosion. ( engine room, I believe is mid ship)The rolling on its side of the ship would account for the high loss of life, even if it didn't sink for four hours after.
10:31 am on March 27th, 2010 37
Read between the lines Tom, who was tracking who with the Chinese sub and who was recording submarine propeller noise, sonar signatures, and sounds from the sub? The US commander of the Navy exercise was never even spoken to from higher ups about the incident. Inquiries from congress found nothing of concern. Makes you wonder.
4:53 pm on March 27th, 2010 38
Now that the CO and others have spoken publicly about what happened that night, I think it's safe to rule out an internal accident. The survivors report there was an explosion, bodies were thrown UPWARD, stern of the ship was basically broken off and sank almost immediately. Many posters say internal explosion couldn't have caused that to happen.
IMHO, a NK half-submersible with a lightweight torpedo (because the half-submersible isn't big enough carry full size torpedo) or an acoustic seamine was what caused the sinking.
NK supposedly has exported some half-submersibles to Iran, which should be of grave concern to USN near Middle East. In 2002 Japan coast guard sunk a NK half-submesible and at that time and confirmed top speed was 43 knots and unconfirmed top speed of 57 knots.
5:03 pm on March 27th, 2010 39
Thing is ever since that time NK have been threatening loudly that they will pay back for that defeat. And NK now know they can't face ROKN in ship to ship clash, not when ROKN doesn't follow that silly 6-step procedure for challenging NK patrol crafts, which caused the only serious defeat of ROKN.
So they had to come up with a new 'innovative' way. NK may be ruthless and seem like gangsters that happen to own a 'country', but they are pretty smart.
Thing is this PCC-772 was instrumental in past clashes by providing gun support to the smaller SK patrol crafts. And one of the missing sailors is a non-comm who was involved in one of the earlier classhes. He was on one of the ChamSuri patrol crafts and well known for having fought on even when gravely injured by NK gunfire. He leaves behind a wife and 6-year old daughter.
5:07 pm on March 27th, 2010 40
geumsan reunion facilities was NOTHING more than a shell/fraud for NK to collect $$$ from SK. Turning profit was never the goal of NK IMO. It was just a way for them to collect $$$. And past 2 presidents of SK instrumental, the closet-NK-sympathizers.
5:13 pm on March 27th, 2010 41
In my earlier post here, but after yours, I quoted statement by survivors from the PCC-772.
Internal explosion was very very unlikely considering what they reported.
Explosion happened and bodies were thrown UPWARD.
Stern of the ship broke off and sank almost immediately.
These are symptoms of a mine or torpedo attack, not internal explosion (no matter from ammo or fuel fume etc.)
5:23 pm on March 27th, 2010 42
NK have a type of stealth ship but not necessarily new.
http://koreadefence.net/wys2/file_attach/2010/03/…
It sails half-submerged and can go faster than 40+ knots on surface. It can however submerge, down to 20m, to hide. Japan coast guard sank a NK half-submersible in 2002. In that incident they supposedly saw it clocking in at 43 knots on surface. When it's traveling half-submerged, it's pretty hard to find.
It's not big enough to carry a full size torpedo but can carry smaller torpedo. NK exported some to Iran awhile back. I bet some at U.S. 5th Fleet are paying attention. If not, they should. Just read a USN ship will be joining the rescue/salvage effort.
5:30 pm on March 27th, 2010 43
I think I remember reading about that. In that incident USN was tracking it and just got sick of it so they let the Chinese sub know they should give up or something like it.
I also read somewhere that much earlier in the past something like that happened, a Chinese sub tracking a USN carrier fleet, and eventually it surfaced very near the USN fleet, without the USN ships knowing what was happening. Apparently in that incident many heads in USN rolled (CO of carrier, CO of the fleet etc… Just a rumor I guess…
5:51 pm on March 27th, 2010 44
Mince words, make excuses but when we get the truth if we do we will see if anything will be done. Nathan, spare me the lesson on anger. Its an emotion not an action. I understand it is important for you to speak correctly with your hands folded. I really don't get it anymore after seeing what North Korea did for all these years some of you are business as usual. This is exactly what our world has come to. I am reminded of how gullible people can be. Is the modern Korean Navy so messed up that they would make a mistake like that at this time an place when we have the best test, and sensing equipment of all times? You know I guess ya just had to see the things we saw North Korea pull late seventies early eighties to understand what I'm saying. I have only a small inkling of doubt this was dirty, call it gut feeling, experience, some distrust of our intelligence people telling us what actually happened. Oh, and Hey I'm not asking for a war. I'm just saying why not put the post and bases on call and a few people on alert for a few damn hours? It would be good training if nothing else. But mostly it would show some respect for the people that were killed yesterday. 46 allies died. Just because I'm angry doesn't mean I would go off half cocked. Had you known me one bit you would know that. But You would rather talk. Talk all ya want. No one will ever stop you. In fact your probably paid to talk. I just wish someone would care or let me say "show care". And apparently you care more about the way we would look than setting a standard JoeC. Who ever said anything about a Tirade except you? And who cares how we look as long as it shows we are going to be watching out for BS? That is what and who we were 30 years ago. Now what are we? No wonder our fighting people get so damn frustrated. Its called support! That is what they need, and recognition. Support from people who have trained hard and been in hard duty and good duty for most of their life's. Again experience of the Hard gotten type that is invaluable. And it means you use your own common sense some times.You don't have to agree with anyone but turning on your fellow people is uncalled for. Political correct or otherwise. My heart and feelings go out to those families that lost loved ones on that ship regardless of what happened. And for all my brothers and sisters who are on active duty right now, know this I am thinking of you. It ain't easy, and I love you folks. Hows that look to you JoeC. Do you feel that is weak? Maybe by now you know what we look like is not nearly as important as how we feel about one another. Doubt that also as you have talking to do.
10:41 am on March 28th, 2010 45
"Many posters say an internal explosion couldn't have caused that to happen". I'll wait for the investigation results.
10:52 am on March 28th, 2010 46
You ready to go to war over this before an investigation? You want to be responsible for the lives that may be a result of internet users opinions? Are you willing to put your life on the line for your opinions or are you more willing to sit back and put other peoples lives on the line.
I will wait for the results of an investigation. Retaliation can be a very bloody business, for both sides, if not done properly.