By Do any retirees reading this in Korea have this problem? I don’t think you should:
Military retirees no longer can sign their friends onto U.S. Marine bases on Okinawa and mainland Japan.
Marine Corps officials contend they’re merely enforcing a Marine Corps Base Japan order in effect since 2003. They said military retirees can sign in only their spouses and children.
“There has been no change to the MCBJ Order for retired U.S. military personnel,” Marine spokesman 2nd Lt. Lucas Burke said in a written response to a query about the April 2 move.
“Non-SOFA status retirees are authorized access to include their immediate family members,” he said. “However, there is no stipulation in the order that permits non-SOFA status retirees to sponsor other guests outside their immediate families onto military installations.”
“For 20 years, I have been able to bring our family members on base to bowl, eat or go shopping,” said Ray Welch, a retired captain who is married to an Okinawan.
“How can they say that they’re just following the order when everything changed on [April 2]?” he said. “Am I being told that a 19-year-old base employee can sponsor people on base, but a retired combat veteran of 23 years of service to his country is no longer allowed to sign on family members and friends?” [Stars & Stripes]
2:25 pm on April 9th, 2010 1
Whatever happened to "Once a Marine Always a Marine," and "Semper Fi?"
6:40 pm on April 9th, 2010 2
This is going to be an embarrassment for the Marines. Hopefully the leadership quickly catch their snap before it gets too stupid.
6:44 pm on April 9th, 2010 3
Maybe Japan is scared by the fact that Americans may now view Koreans higher than them? Who knows. As an American I have to admit that we would rather our children become more south Korean this decade than Japanese. You dont need Homer Simpsomn to tell you that. Even though we still do not care about Dokdo or ever will, we finally care that South Korean parents are better than Japanese when it comes to raising children.,,
6:52 pm on April 9th, 2010 4
Did you post in the wrong thread? If not, I'm VERY confused.
7:04 pm on April 9th, 2010 5
I think that was an attempted DokDo thread hijack…
Seriously, this is just a continuation of punishing retirees who have spent 20 years deploying, fighting, and subjected to using outdated/hand me down Marine equipment.
There is also a push to prevent retirees from using the APO military mail system. Although I rarely get anything within two months this should be an outroar!
12:14 am on April 10th, 2010 6
Ditto81, what altered reality are you living in?
1:42 am on April 10th, 2010 7
Ditto, I reread your post and see what you mean. How could I have missed it?
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
I worry about ridiculous things, you know, how does a guy who drives a snowplough get to work in the morning. . . . That can keep me awake for days…
I've always wanted to go to Switzerland to see what the army does with those wee red knives.
Whenever I think of the past, it brings back so many memories.
I think it's wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.
2:06 am on April 10th, 2010 8
A military base is a military installation, not an amusement park or shopping mall. MWR facilities are funded partly by tax dollars and should be restricted to soldiers and their families although obviously this is not the case. If John Q. retired marine wants to enjoy some comforts from the US while choosing to live in Japan or Korea, fine, but I don't see why the military needs to accommodate his desire to entertain his friends at cheap base facilities.
2:41 am on April 10th, 2010 9
Not an unreasonable viewpoint, but if the retirees can't sign on friends, then some local national civilian employee absolutely shouldn't be able to either.
7:29 am on April 10th, 2010 10
Sonagi, here is one reason: it is profitable to MWR to do so. Having fun WITH your friends, is what the retired do. Not much fun without your few friends.
Besides, they earned the right.
As for your snide comment about the base being an amusement park or shopping mall, PLEASE! You have obviously been spending time on bases that I surely have not.
9:23 am on April 10th, 2010 11
Is Sonagi actually CSM Hall?
10:07 am on April 10th, 2010 12
And are MWR facilities not actually non-apprporiated funds activities?
10:19 am on April 10th, 2010 13
They earned the right? Base access is not a right. It is a privilege. MWR is profitable in the same way that high school lunches are profitable with the government picking up the tab.
10:31 am on April 10th, 2010 14
20+ years honorable service you earn the right to post/base access.
11:08 am on April 10th, 2010 15
Sort of. The retired military personnel handbook available online states that those who retire honorably after 20 years of service have full commissary and exchange privileges. Obviously, the retiree would need to enter a base in order to exercise this privilege, the actual word used in the handbook.
12:08 pm on April 10th, 2010 16
That's nice in theory Sonagi. The problem I see is I've never seen on post facilities so overloaded they couldn't accommodate retirees. As an example I remember the on-post buses at Yongsan had prioritization of who could use them. Active people were at the top and retirees were towards the bottom. I never saw a Yongsan bus so loaded the list ever got utilized.
I suspect its the same here. There is probably room for the retirees but they're being shut out. I wonder why? Perhaps its part of a move to prod the retirees to go back to the states as a way to somehow lessen the current basing drama.
1:17 pm on April 10th, 2010 17
That is not true about the mail box.
The SOFA determines whether retirees can have a mailbox or not. What you are talking about is retirees living in countries where there are no military bases like Thailand and the Philippines can no longer get their mail through the US Embassy. Some countries such as Italy and Japan do not allow retirees a mail box. That rumor started here when this article came out in the Stars and Stripes. Here is the article :http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=65944. What I don't like about SOFA poicies is some GS worker overseas who never spent a day in their life in the military can get benefits on a military base that they can't get in the US. Yet a retiree who gave 20+ years to their country can't. Most overseas countries are not friendly for non-SOFA retirees. If you are not under SOFA you are considered trash (substitute any other descriptive adjective you want).
1:26 pm on April 10th, 2010 18
Then there's no "sort of" – it's right there in black and white.
2:12 pm on April 10th, 2010 19
Sonagi. No "sort of". I have not worn a uniform for a few years now.
I go to any base, get the temp tag for my POV and go check out the places that sell stuff. That will not get me into "secure areas". Nor would I be interested in those. Saw a few in my time.
I seldom go on any post, as the "amusement park" feeling just never seemed to be there. Burger King off post or Burger King on post—what to do?
It is my EARNED RIGHT to go on base and buy STUFF. Spend my money. If I want to take by brother (who never served) with me, I should be able to sign him on.
I might want to visit some friends at the "Hump" later this year. If They will not let be in, I might be writting some letters to the American Legion and VFW.
PS: my POV is registered on Fort Hood and I simply show my "retired ID card" and drive on. I can drive almost anywhere—at 25 to 35 MPH.
WEEEE! What fun!
2:31 pm on April 10th, 2010 20
I read everybody's points and go back to the basics. Granted, allowing retirees to invite guests on post is a privilege, not a right. So the question must be, why the sudden, unexplained revocation of that privilege? Have the retirees and their guests been associated with wild, drunken brawls at the on base facilities? Are they occupying too many seats a shouting out ending spoilers at the base theater movies? Are they a cost burden to the military police who must follow them and their guests around to monitor their likely criminal activities? We all know their profile. Keep an eye on them.
As a relatively young, military retiree, I won't presume to speak for all. I have invited a few guests on military bases in my time. Most often might have been to watch a movie at the theater. I've brought guests to the food court and Chilli's. A couple of times, I brought guest to see the 4th of July fireworks display. I once brought guests to listen to a University of Maryland guest lecturer. I've brought guest to see guest entertainers at the on base clubs. Hell, who know? I might even like to invite a guest to a USO Toby Keith show!
For me, when these things come up, the question always is, why? What problem are they fixing? What breach are the plugging? If retirees, taking guests on base, maybe only for the Marines, are a cost or a security issues, them come right out and say it. Give them the presumption of being the adults they are. I'm sure they will understand.
Is it just me that thinks the Marines on Okinawa and Japan have a public relations problem that might be better served by having retirees bringing guests on board to show and explain to them what the Marines are all about? Those islands are well known for having the oldest population and a culture that still reveres them. The younger Marines don't seem to be getting it done.
9:21 pm on April 10th, 2010 21
A right and a privilege are not quite the same thing. A handbook is not a contract. It can be edited unilaterally by the military. Moreover, the handbook assigns the privilege to the retiree only. It says nothing about family or friends although individual bases obviously extend visitation privileges to others, privileges that can be taken away.
11:22 pm on April 10th, 2010 22
Thanks for Agreeing with me.
8:31 am on April 11th, 2010 23
Yes, and for the most part they are self supporting. The more customers the better. The comparison with school lunches, "with the government picking up the tab" shows a lack of knowledge, but the writer may not be familiar with how the DoD fund programs operate.
5:31 am on April 12th, 2010 24
Retired Marines and their spouses on Okinawa are cut off by the U.S. Marine Corps. Since 1500 on April 2010 only SOFA status personnel may sign guests onto Marine bases on Okinawa and Japan. This means that especially many elderly retirees that need to sign a non-sofa assistant on to base cannot. The older population may not know sofa status personnel to sign them on base to conduct valid business. These older retirees and spouses have served the U.S. and are here on Okinawa as a direct or indirect result of that service. Now as a 26 year Marine retiree I cannot take my family onto a Marine Base on Okinawa for dinner. I can sign family and friends onto Air Force and Army bases.
6:47 am on April 12th, 2010 25
The AF will accept your money and say thank you for it. Could be why they have the best facilities.
6:05 pm on April 15th, 2010 26
Part of the benefits earned at retirement are facility access to any US base in the world. This is part of the DoD / VA benefits package that all retiree's get when their leave. This isn't a privilege, this is something written in law and requires congress to change. That law stipulates retiree's are allowed to sign in dependents (spouse / children under 18 usually) as guests, but mentions nothing about friends or other relatives. Most base's policy allows retiree's to sign in friends / relatives as guests, but that is a post policy as directed by the post commander.
This isn't a handbook or other such crap, its basic knowledge to any retiree. I guess some got used to the extended freedoms, and the Marine CDR is being a hard a$$.
The list of retiree benefits is rather long, its the reward / right you get for serving your country for 20 or more years. They include PX / Commissary / Medical access. Any MWR facility or activity (library / movie theater / post clubs). Retiree's are also eligible for free transportation via Space-A, granted its not guaranteed and they take a backseat to any pertinent missions.