By Over at the Army Times they are looking for opinions on the black beret issue:
The Army has been wearing the black beret for 10 years. Is it time to dump the beret?
Send your responses and comments to dlarter@armytimes.com
The black beret since its inception by General Eric Shinseki has been a point of controversy in the US Army. The Army Times though is mistaken that the black beret has been in use for 10 years though. It has actually been around since 2001 because I can remember when I was in 1st Brigade, 2ID at Camp Casey and we were designated to be the first unit in the Army to wear the beret. A CNN crew actually came to Camp Casey to film it. The day prior all the 1st Brigade units were brought out to the parade field in the heat to practice the beret ceremony which consisted of swapping the patrol cap and putting on a beret. I never seen a ceremony with more pissed off sergeant majors than that one. The command that was made up the day prior to change head gear was “Don Beret!” and thus the US Army was stuck with the black beret.
The black beret to this day remains a non-practical piece of head gear. A patrol cap can be worn anywhere while a beret has no use in the motorpool or out in the field. It doesn’t make any sense to have soldiers carry around two pieces of head gear and have to keep switching it depending on where they are at. The beret should be left to wear only with dress uniforms, which looks better than wearing a bus driver hat.
So obviously I would have no problem seeing the end of the black beret, but with the man who dumped these berets on the Army, Eric Shinseki now a member of the Obama administration, I don’t see it happening.
10:49 am on May 2nd, 2010 1
They can't drop them.
If they do that, Air Force town patrol at Osan can't go around saying… and, I quote… "Yeah, but we earned ours."
11:43 am on May 2nd, 2010 2
I think they look kinda cool. It's a good recruitment tool.
11:45 am on May 2nd, 2010 3
I remember my first formation with the new Beret. It was a bright beautiful day and my eyes were tearing up from the sunlight that used to be deflected by the bill of the patrol cap. I've hated the beret ever since.
11:54 am on May 2nd, 2010 4
For the love of God, can't we leave the uniforms alone for a year?
11:57 am on May 2nd, 2010 5
Should be "Sergeants Major."
11:57 am on May 2nd, 2010 6
The beret was so "chik" just 10 years ago that every member of the military wanted to wear one.
Now, its so yesterday.
Where's Ralf Lourin when the country needs him most?
11:58 am on May 2nd, 2010 7
Nope, say hello to my little friend Mr. Multi-cam.
11:58 am on May 2nd, 2010 8
I'll always remember Lindsy England in hers.
12:26 pm on May 2nd, 2010 9
So obviously I would have no problem seeing the end of the black beret, but with the man who dumped these berets on the Army, Eric Shinseki now a member of the Obama administration, I don’t see it happening.
Is that how it works now? Do people outside the Army have a say in what they wear?
The only outside complaints I remember about the beret was when some Congressmen complained that the demand required that most of the supply be purchased from China.
12:52 pm on May 2nd, 2010 10
Listen, the beret was a stupid idea. I didn't know ONE soldier that thought it was "cool" or "cute" or "high speed". We all hated it, no matter their rank. It has no bill to block the sun, you can't just put it on, you have to adjust it and fix it each time or look like an idiot.
Not that it matters to me any longer but a patrol cap is much more practical.
I still have my Beret, just to remind me how stupid the "command" sometimes got.
1:02 pm on May 2nd, 2010 11
I'm not surprised that you think it looks "cool". Explains alot right there.
Good recruitment tool? Really?
I think money for college is a BETTER recruitment tool than a hat that doesn't block the sun.
1:04 pm on May 2nd, 2010 12
So what does it explain, old timer?
As for a recruitment tool, the Defense Department clearly was going for image enhancement with its recruitment media campaigns, so yeah.
1:07 pm on May 2nd, 2010 13
Using fashion designers to design military uniforms went out with the Nazis. [LINK]
1:18 pm on May 2nd, 2010 14
Your backward thinking—if you have to be told, young Whippersnapper
But being "young" you do have to be told
It was and is a piss poor recruitment tool. I never had a Soldier that told me he/she joined because of the uniform. A Marine maybe.
The Beret was Gen Shinseki's baby. He pushed it.
1:32 pm on May 2nd, 2010 15
Ah, because that's how image marketing works: People consciously pick and choose which images they pick and then the verbalize that. Got it!
1:54 pm on May 2nd, 2010 16
Some batches of berets are bad. The black berets my friends had sucked. They were hard to shape properly and they could never shrink them back if they stretched to the point that they would fall over their ear. Luckily for me, the ones worn by my unit weren't black, but green and of higher quality.
2:01 pm on May 2nd, 2010 17
"you have to adjust it and fix it each time or look like an idiot."
If you shape it improperly, you'll look like an idiot no matter how you try. Mine, by the way, was perfect. I looked quite dashing in it, if I can say so myself.
2:05 pm on May 2nd, 2010 18
COUGH… Choke.. ROFLAMO.. cry.. How true..lol
2:09 pm on May 2nd, 2010 19
They have berets in the Canadian Navy? Who knew?
2:15 pm on May 2nd, 2010 20
Yeah, berets offer no protection against the sun and the rain. We had boonie hats, but those looked ridiculous unless you were in the field. I guess they didn't switch to caps because of tradition.
2:15 pm on May 2nd, 2010 21
I was there that fateful day at Camp Casey too, with the 1/503d. We had a legitimate flash from back in their Airborne days, but they still made us use that blue starred thingy. Thought about converting an old black beret I had on hand from previous assignments, but just couldn't do it. Kinda torn on the whole thing now. I look at formations in both headgears and realize most don't wear either correctly. But, a Soldier in a beret looks better than a Soldier in a PC, IMHO. Utility wise the beret sucks. I liked the comment about having it as the dress headgear. Wearing a dress uniform is about the only time you can be sure to have both hands free to put the damn thing on.
2:25 pm on May 2nd, 2010 22
What did you think we wore? A tuque?
2:30 pm on May 2nd, 2010 23
The modern flecktarn uniforms were apparently designed according to some of the same principles (high waistline to make the soldiers appear thinner and taller).
2:46 pm on May 2nd, 2010 24
I thought it was bellbottoms and crackerjack hats all the way.
2:53 pm on May 2nd, 2010 25
You are correct, many of the black berets are not high quality. When we were first issued them they did not have my size so they gave me one made in belgium which had the correct band size but hung down to the bottom of my jaw. I had the choice of being out of uniform (complete unit change) or being out of uniform (beret not to regulation specs). Every Sergeant Major, First Sergeant and Sergeant Major wannabe in reach gave me an earful until I could procure one from US CAV which was sold out for several months. Good times, good times.
3:42 pm on May 2nd, 2010 26
I retired before they came out with the beret but I've talked to a number of SF, rangers, & airborne who were pretty PO'd because before berets were a mark of distinction for elite troops and now except for the color it was all the same. A patrol cap obviously gives better protection from the sun.
10:21 pm on May 2nd, 2010 27
I *hate* the beret as part of the BDU/ACU, but with a bit of practice (and if you’ve shaped it well) the beret can be put on with one hand without any difficulty.
11:23 pm on May 2nd, 2010 28
GI Korea is illiterate.
12:38 am on May 3rd, 2010 29
When we were sweating our ‘nads off working on flight-lines next to the Australians in the Philippines and Thailand, we used to envy them their shorts and bush-hats.
4:22 am on May 3rd, 2010 30
Though the beret doesn't stand up on its own when you place it upside down, it likely will hold much more when you hold it out begging for change on the subway. Plush, the flash will identify you as belonging to the US Army at one time or another. I was with a unit at Bragg a few years ago and returning to lunch one day I saw a homeless bum just outside the Yadkin gate. You guessed it, he was wearing the same flash I had on my beret. I said "hello sergeant major"
6:33 am on May 3rd, 2010 31
Cool story bro but that makes no sense. A SGM would be getting retirement pay, I have a very hard time he would be a bum on the street begging for change. But I'm probably just feeding the troll here so…
12:41 pm on May 3rd, 2010 32
"Why not different color berets or flashes depending on your branch?"
Flashes: Originally, each unit was to design its own flash and wear it after Heraldry Department approval. The current blue flash was to only be worn by people between assignments. Apparently nobody got around to designing flashes. Would the branches be any more proactive?
Berets: Many of the branch colors are those of berets already being issued. Should Special Forces, Airborne and Rangers be told to change their headgear (again in the case of Rangers) so Artillery, Ordnance, MP and Quartermaster Soldiers can have branch specific berets?
2:34 pm on May 3rd, 2010 33
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
6:29 pm on May 3rd, 2010 34
I am not against the beret per se but like all things we adopt from the British military we fail in its execution. Why not different color berets or flashes depending on your branch? Why not allow the Air Assault units to wear the flash previously authorized for the unit?
More importantly when is somebody going to tell Sergeant Majors that wearing the PC in rain and snow is ok?
And let me tell you about the number of times after the conversion I was stopped by officers on Yongsan for wearing my units maroon beret and lectured on how the Army has gone to black berets, and after telling them I belonged to an Airborne unit in Korea to be told with all the certainty that idiots can muster that “There are no Airborne units in Korea!”
9:24 pm on May 3rd, 2010 35
I always wondered what happened on the flash issue. But I wonder about the underlying reason for the change.
Another reason for not doing this is unity. As it is, we differentiate Soldiers in so many ways. We have regimental affiliation, distinctive unit patches, unit awards, skill badges, etc. which tend to separate everyone into classes. From my experience this has a tendency to pit Soldiers against each other. Contrast that with the US Marines who keep such things to a minimum. You see a lot less squabbling between them in various matters.
Not saying we she adopt the USMC pattern on this. There is a method to our madness. But I think further visually dividing the force isn't a great idea. Just because it works for the Brits doesn't mean it will work for us.
12:25 am on May 4th, 2010 36
Flashes for Divisions and some (all?) branches were designed but the Army leadership canned them and decided that everybody would just wear the Army flash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_beret#Beret_Colours
My reference to the British Military was too oblique. Go to the link above and see the various colored berets for UK units. Of course there would be precedent for SF and Airborne to keep their distinctive colors. Just saying that the beret could have meant so much more but the Army went with the path of least resistance, thus satisfying nobody and angering the Ranger community at the same time.
5:19 am on May 10th, 2010 37
i hate the beret for the fact that it takes to hands to put it on so if your carrying something you got to put it down and put it on while the Patrol cap you can just throw on easy and simple but watch it take 10 more years of bitching to get the army to just keep the beret as a class A item and then 10 years aswell to come up with a new PC
7:13 am on May 10th, 2010 38
Speaking as an old civilian, I think the beret looks goofy. The patrol cap makes a guy look like a serious soldier. But the army changes the uniform too darned often.
8:26 am on May 10th, 2010 39
Most of the active duty from that time made similar comments when they came out.
7:00 am on June 9th, 2010 40
I was in Korea as a rigger, you should have seen the Yongson officers flipping out when I wore my red baseball cap around post when I first got in country. LOL. I used my excuse as being part of the All Army Baseball team and as the headgear being an AIDS Patient Identifying Headgear. Yeah, it didnt matter to me one way or another, being an airborne soldier my entire career due to my job, I could always put it on with one hand, my patrol cap was in my go-bag for whenever the was an ftx. I wore my rigger hat about 90% of the time and we were always told at PT formation what headgear we would be wearing for the day so there were no questions and you wouldnt need to carry more than one.
Also, for you guys with the chef boyardee black berets going. ask your freindly neighborhood paratrooper how to shape them. Get yourself a beret from Ranger Joes, get a mach 3 razor and get that thing snug on your head. it takes about hour and you wont have that thing popping up on your head anymore.
9:28 am on December 14th, 2010 41
I'm with drew on this one. I'm an ROTC cadet joining the guard in February, and while yes, the PC is better in many, many ways. And i agree that the beret should just be worn in class A's. Stop complaining about the beret! It's not that hard to shape, and even easier to shave. I'm sure that if a Cadet second liuetenant can shape it perfectly, you experienced, trained soldiers can do it as well.
10:55 am on December 14th, 2010 42
Oui, Le Beret..tres belle!
The headgear is nonfunctional.
Produced by the chief "Good Idea Ferry" (we all know one)
Gen. Shinseki. This guy declared Tanks obsolete and sounded the clarion call for the death of the US Armor Corp, plenty of "Light" folks there to jump on board. Bastogne? Arnhem? Hue City?
1:24 am on March 17th, 2011 43
To the dude that thinks beret's are cool:
I've worn a green one since 1988…it ain't cool, its a worthless piece of equipment that shouold be relegated to ceremonies and picture taking with your old auntie gertrude…wanna look cool in a uniform, join the damned marines!
Incidentally, any person that joins MY army becasaue of a beret or the college fund, instead of for the defense of the country and the constitution…is a flamer and deserves a beret just like the dutch and french armies!
8:41 pm on May 5th, 2011 44
I don’t understand why you said that the Army Times was wrong when they said that the beret has been around 10 years and then you go on to say that the black beret has been around since 2001. I’m not a doctor, but I’m pretty sure that, since it’s 2011, 2001 is in fact 10 years ago.
11:30 pm on May 5th, 2011 45
#41, I guess you missed the part about it being non-functional. But then again, you are only a cadet. You don’t know anything yet.
Lieutenants. Highly paid Privates. Even the Privates know that. But you’ll be a CO one day. It’s automatic unless you really F-up.
Lesson one: If you attempt to look down on your troops as you did here, they will see it and that Salute really will be ONLY for the Rank you wear. But if you are like most of the Officers I knew, that will be just fine with you.
Now go shave your beret CADET. It still has fuzz on it.
5:34 am on May 6th, 2011 46
@44 – Look at the year of this posting, it is not 2011.
6:31 am on May 6th, 2011 47
GI Korea,
Don’t be too hard on him. He isn’t a doctor.