By Here is a CNN video of Laura Ling explaining to Larry King about how she was captured by the North Koreans back in March 2009:
Something of the interest from the interview was that she admitted to crossing over to the North Korean side of the border, but was in fact captured on the Chinese side of the border and then beaten by the soldiers to be brought back into North Korea. This is actually something they claimed after their release as well, but the Chinese government has denied it. However, the kidnapping of people by the North Koreans within China has happened before which the Chinese government continues to deny as well.
I would still like to know what the cameraman Mitch Koss was doing at the time of the capture? I also would like her to address the claim by the Durihana Mission that helped her and Euna Lee with their reporting that after their capture the Chinese authorities cracked down on the organization and confiscated information that led to the capture and repatriation of North Korean refugees.
Here is where she seems quite naive for being a journalist:
“I think that our ability to communicate really allowed North Korea and the United States to talk more directly,” Lisa Ling said. “It’s such a circuitous way our countries communicate … and I think they figured out that by letting Laura and me talk somehow they could communicate messages to our country.”
Laura Ling expressed empathy for her captors and the guards who oversaw her imprisonment saying, “I developed some very human bonds with them, (but) I don’t hold the same regard for the North Korean government.”
“I developed a better understanding for my captors and they of me, and I hope that they have a wider perspective about Americans and the United States,” she said. [CNN]
The North Koreans knew the two women were going to be released so of course they were going to put guards on them that were nice and personable so they could go back to the US and tell Larry King how nice the North Koreans were. What did she expect was going to happen, their jailers pulling their fingernails off? Laura Ling should go ask someone like Robert Park who is not related to a famous and politically connected celebrity how he was treated considering he left North Korea a broken man with allegations the North Koreans sexually tortured him? Or Aijalon Mahli Gomes who continues to be imprisoned in North Korea.
Overall though it seems to me that Laura Ling means well, but is a bit naive and foolish which is what led to her capture in the first place. It was good to see her promoting Libert in North Korea (LiNK) on CNN and their current effort to resettle 100 North Korean refugees. I just hope she makes a long term commitment to helping the organization instead of just name dropping it now to promote her book. I guess only the future will tell.
10:54 pm on May 19th, 2010 1
Someone needs to tell Lisa that JSOC (Joint Special Operations Command) is not a "clandestine military organization."
11:00 pm on May 19th, 2010 2
I wonder what the USA had to negotiate with NK to release these women. Money? after all I don`t believe it was for free.
The USA negotiating with terrorist???? Learning from Korea on the case of the missionaries in Afghanistan???
They should have sent the GIs
3:42 am on May 20th, 2010 3
She's picked a good time to start cashing in on her "ordeal."
3:52 am on May 20th, 2010 4
I've pretty much blown my wad [HERE, among other places] with my criticisms of Laura Ling, Euna Lee, Mitch Koss, and then Laura's sister Lisa. That they're going on TV to promote their book is natural, and I've decided only to report on, but not comment much on, the TV appearances and what comes out of them (some of which is rather interesting).
Instead, I'm going to wait to read the book, which Lisa Ling has graciously decided to send me a copy of. I'm going to give it a critical but fair read, to see how our concerns are answered and addressed. Of course, people in the public eye — especially those who have done something where embarrassment is involved — typically want to paint their actions in the most favorable light (or least damning light) possible, and we should expect that.
We need to cut through that, of course, to see what really happened and how their mistakes might have adversely affected others, but at the same time I agree with Lisa Ling that we need to also keep sight of the fact that we're all on the same side here. Lisa Ling herself, her sister Laura, Euna Lee, Mitch Koss, myself, GI Korea, Joshua Stanton at One Free Korea [HERE], etc., are doing what we feel we can do to better the plight of North Korean refugees. Even when we make mistakes.
That said, I look forward to getting my hands on the book. And kudos to Lisa Ling that she has been willing to engage someone who has been such a vocal critic from so early on.
BTW, GI Korea, thanks for the Mitch Koss link. I guess that was the beginning of the new semester or something when that was out, because I totally missed your post on him. He makes a good point that "when there is silence, fantasy answers to fill in empty spaces," but he must also acknowledge that he has contributed to that problem.
4:16 am on May 20th, 2010 5
This lady is a complete fool. I dont feel even the slightest bit sorry for what happen to her or anybody else that willfully enters North Korea ilegally. She is not a victim she is a moron that is completely out of touch with reality, and I hope nobody buys her book.
Also, I dont think they paid to have her released but having an American ex-president go to North Korea, and somehow legitimize the North Korean regime is plenty payment enough.
6:48 am on May 20th, 2010 6
"Why would they beat you?". Gawd, Larry King is a 'tard! They beat them because they could.
7:44 am on May 20th, 2010 7
I wonder if the US gov't was reimbursed for sending a former president and his entourage of Secret Service personnel? The aircraft and jet fuel alone must have been a couple hundred thousand dollars.
8:05 am on May 20th, 2010 8
Two people wanted to sneak INTO F'ing NORTH KOREA? There is a saying in the military that is 100% appropriate here: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
10:03 am on May 20th, 2010 9
What we learned is essentially the Current TV crew went to the Tumen River with the intent of filming the terrain. They then decided to follow their guide across the ice to the opposite shore because "he was trying to show us a village" Is that not the most naive explanation for setting foot on North Korean soil
I also found the JSOC revelation most fascinating. (It was a former JSOC operative, not a current one.)
I wonder what the solicited fee was for his services claiming that he could try finding Laura Ling's whereabouts in North Korea using an underground network. If the price is dirt cheap, I might have some dirty deeds to be done in Pyongyang.
10:05 am on May 20th, 2010 10
From a ratings standpoint, it would be quite a coup to claim footage of being inside North Korea, of sneaking into the country where people are sneaking out.
Not exactly a stupid reason, but the execution was naïve to say the least. Given that they had incriminating tapes on their persons, they obviously didn't imagine they'd be caught.
10:34 am on May 20th, 2010 11
If the price is dirt cheap, I might have some dirty deeds to be done…
Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT?
Neckties, contracts, high voltage?
11:18 am on May 20th, 2010 12
In that short interview, they were like bulls in a sensitive information china shop — 'safe-houses', 'underground network.' I bet the North Koreans can't wait to read their book.
12:52 pm on May 20th, 2010 13
Seems like "Mitch Koss" would like to keep his role in their capture silent. My guess is he ran as fast as he could and never looked back.
So the question to "Mitch" is, could you have helped the two idiots by being a man and standing up to the North Korean guards chasing them and letting the two idiots escape. Or, were you out to save your own skin no matter what.
I suspect the latter, and that the two idiots don't blame him for their capture.
The other question is "would I have done the same as Mitch". I don't think I could have. But I wasn't there. So "Mitch" has got to live with it.
12:57 pm on May 20th, 2010 14
From Laura's interview with NPR:
"When we were initially caught, Euna had told our captors that we were students, that we were working on a documentary and were working on the piece about the border region and trade in the region."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?stor…
I guess the North Korean sentries didn't buy Euna's story that it was a documentary on border trade, probably because the nearest market is over 10 kilometers downstream.
4:23 pm on May 20th, 2010 15
Don't know about you, but I would have brought along an expert on inter-Korean relations and let him or her do most of the talking if I were them. It only takes a minute to plug a book.
4:25 pm on May 20th, 2010 16
Don't you know Larry King only throws softballs? That's the main reason he gets so many celebrity interviews.
4:42 pm on May 20th, 2010 17
Larry was just embarrassed because he didn't know if North Korea was the evil Korea or not.
Answer: They're both evil. Amiright? Amiright?
8:50 pm on May 20th, 2010 18
I would not be surprised if he did think exactly that. King may also think Korea is situated near Cambodia. He prides himself (no joke) for doing absolutely no preparation before an interview!
It would have been better if he asked if the guards Mirandized her. Wouldn't put it past him.
9:21 pm on May 20th, 2010 19
I have my copy of "Somewhere Inside" and I look forward to reading it. Until then, I'd like to say, first, that Laura Ling is not naive. She's often been in dangerous situations for Current / Vanguard. She did, however, make a mistake. We all make mistakes.
Second, noting that her version of events contradicts that of the Chinese government, I believe Laura. Third, I appreciate GI Korea, Joshua Stanton, Kushibo, and Spelunker, all of them asking the significant questions that I would never have thought of.
9:28 pm on May 20th, 2010 20
Glans wrote:
Second, noting that her version of events contradicts that of the Chinese government, I believe Laura.
Why? Laura Ling has a vested interested — financial and professional — to paint herself in the best light possible. China has a vested interest in not embarrassing itself, but the incident of winter 2009 doesn't provide a lot of things that look all that bad for China (from their perspective).
Let's not forget, before they admitted going into North Korea of their own accord, nobody believed that part of the North Korean take on this was true. Pyongyang has been uncannily truthful about the events of that day.
9:39 pm on May 20th, 2010 21
They sure know how to plug a book.
9:43 pm on May 20th, 2010 22
One thing for sure: the interview provides no insight on the current situation.
On the day the results of the investigation of the Cheonan was released? Come on!
2:07 am on May 21st, 2010 23
I give Larry King credit for one question in particular regarding the guide: "Was he a con man?"
Laura replied "I don't know; I don't like to speculate."
However Laura did indeed speculate during her interview earlier in the day with NPR:
"There were some actions that were in retrospect very suspicious… our guide began making some low hooting noises across the border. … Now previously, our guide had told us that he had connections in North Korea. Our guide was involved in smuggling goods himself. And so, in my mind, I thought he was trying to make a connection with some of the border guards that he knew. He said in the past that he had taken some media to actually converse with some of these border guards on the other side. And he continued to walk closer to the North Korean side of the river and he got to the other side, stepped foot on the soil and motioned for us to follow him, which we did."
So in fact the guide was a con man (smuggler) and he succeeded in smuggling Current TV's crew all the way across the Tumen River! It seems evident to Larry King that the guide was probably a con man, but Laura still has a hard time admitting her poor judgement.
2:43 am on May 21st, 2010 24
Dear Glans,
Ask Laura if she really truly believed Current TV's crew was following the guide all the way across the river to conduct an interview on camera with North Korean sentries on their own turf! Would you please ask her that question if she does a book signing at your local Barnes & Noble? Thanks, Glans!
Here's what Laura Ling said to NPR on May 19:
"Now previously, our guide had told us that he had connections in North Korea and was involved in smuggling goods himself. He began making some low hooting noises across the border. … and so, in my mind, I thought he was trying to make a connection with some of the border guards that he knew. He said in the past that he had taken some media to actually converse with some of these border guards on the other side. And he continued to walk closer to the North Korean side of the river and he got to the other side, stepped foot on the soil and motioned for us to follow him, which we did."
The evidence is in her own words; so just stick her nose in it. She was naive to believe that they were crossing the river at dawn to interview border guards that were being summoned by her guide's hooting.
If they were truly only going to the Tumen River to film the terrain, as she claimed on Larry King's show, then this guide would have been unnecessary.
They were scheduled to go to Dandong on that morning, so a simple car and driver could have taken them for a scenic drive along the Chinese shore. However Laura wanted a "fixer" to fix a possible interview with North Korean sentries, thus the necessity to step onto the ice and follow the hired guide into the danger zone.
Who's naive now? Is it Laura, or could it be anyone who believes that her true intention was only to take pictures of the river and not cross it?
Best wishes,
Spelunker
3:12 am on May 21st, 2010 25
I'm skimming their book now and find it bland and trite. Perhaps good Oprah Book Club fare, but nothing forthe hard-core NK watcher….
4:06 am on May 21st, 2010 26
"I think that our ability to communicate really allowed North Korea and the United States to talk more directly,” Lisa Ling said."
Die in a fire, shameless, self-aggrandizing bitches.
9:19 am on May 21st, 2010 27
You should have read the reviews.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/05/20/book-rep…
9:22 am on May 21st, 2010 28
Yup, they were so able to communicate that foreign reporters have to sneak into the country.
9:44 pm on May 21st, 2010 29
I don't think I'll have a chance to ask Laura any questions in the near future, because she's going to have a baby. (She's already decided on the name: Lisa.)
I find this easy to believe: Laura wanted to film the Tumen. She needed a guide or fixer because whe wasn't familiar with the area. While at the river, she thought the fixer was giving her an opportunity to film, or even talk to, border guards. Perhaps her judgment was impaired by lack of sleep.
Maybe you and I have a different understanding of the word "naive". To me it doesn't mean "making a big mistake." It means "ignorant because of inexperiance." In that sense, Laura's not naive, because she's been in danger in foreign countries before. But I am naive, in that I've never crossed a border without permission. I like to avoid danger; I accept the limits that places on my possible achievements.
Finally, if I'm ever so lucky as to meet Laura Ling, I'm not sticking her nose in anything, because I love and respect her. That doesn't mean she's above criticism. It does mean I'll be nice to her.
But I do appreciate your comments. My understanding of this whole incident is much deeper because of you.
10:05 pm on May 21st, 2010 30
I can't claim to be certain about the arrest of Laura and Euna. I simply choose to believe them. I accept the details described by Laura. If Euna's book contradicts the Ling sisters' book, I'll be in a dilemma. But if the Chinese and North Korean governments contradict Laura and Euna, I believe Laura and Euna.
As to financial or professional reasons for Laura to lie, I don't understand you. How would she lose money or professional standing if she were arrested in North Korea instead of China? China's motive to lie would be to avoid giving the impression that foreign military forces are free to cross its borders.
What's this "nobody believed" stuff? We had Lisa's statement that Laura didn't intend to enter North Korea when she left home, but we didn't have a statement from Laura herself. Lisa didn't claim to know what had happened, because she wasn't there. She even left open the possibility that "the girls" had crossed the border inadvertantly. When Laura admitted to Lisa that she had indeed crossed the border, Lisa stated so, publicly. I'm not aware of a clear statement by the North Korean authorities, definitely stating that the arrest occurred on their soil.
The Lings are ambitious and they work hard, but they're also sweet, honest, and beautiful. I love them!
But I appreciate your comments. You have helped me to understand this incident.
2:20 am on May 22nd, 2010 31
In the epilogue of the book, Laura takes full responsabilty for her actions and decisions, calling them tragic and more.
The book answers many questions, but there are a few litte questions that remain, which I hope will be discussed as more people read the book. The interviews on tv are lame, and the Current piece was fluff, plus I only watched it to hear from Mitch Koss and Euna Lee as had been advertised.
Many have expressed that they would not by the book. Then borrow a copy, read with an open mind and come to your own conclusions.
3:00 am on May 22nd, 2010 32
Glans wrote:
As to financial or professional reasons for Laura to lie, I don’t understand you. How would she lose money or professional standing if she were arrested in North Korea instead of China?
I don't think you're considering this from the point of view of public sympathy. Initially, most people believed they were probably snatched from the Chinese side without them ever having entered North Korea on their own.
But as speculation and then facts mounted, it became clearer that it wasn't so neat as that, and sympathy for them eroded. Now that we know they willingly went into North Korea, much of the public sentiment has turned against them. This means a loss of sales and possibly a loss of stature.
On one end of the spectrum, if they were snatched from China without them ever having set foot in North Korea prior to that, their "purity" is about as high as it could be (filming the North Korea border from the Chinese side is a journalistic task of reasonable risk), but on the other end of the spectrum, if they were caught in North Korea while they had entered North Korea willingly and knowingly, then that's a different matter. Their standing as journalists and even their ability to sell books would be compromised as the public perception would change from one of gutsy to foolish and reckless.
Since they did in fact enter on their own, they would need to mitigate the story as much as possible, to move it as far away from the latter end of the spectrum as possible. Having gone willingly into North Korea but having managed to make it onto Chinese territory before being (illegally?) grabbed by the North Korean guards on Chinese soil would be one such mitigation. So too would a notion that the their entering NK was a spur-of-the-moment decision and not something they had been planning to do in the first place.
3:01 am on May 22nd, 2010 33
Is there a date on the epilogue?
4:36 am on May 22nd, 2010 34
I think what Spelunker is saying about Ling makes sense because why would she need this fixer if she just planned to take pictures from the river? Maybe she didn’t plan to cross the river but I think she went to the river with the intention of the fixer bringing her a North Korean guard to interview.
3:51 pm on May 22nd, 2010 35
If the guide was really fixing an interview then it should have been on Current TV's conditions. That means meeting the North Koreans on Chinese soil and ensuring the sentries are unarmed.
Why would an unarmed North Korean sentry take such a risk? Money talks.
So flip it around now and ask why would Laura Ling decide to risk crossing the river to interview armed North Koreans on their own terms and on their own soil….doesn't make much "cents", does it?
4:19 pm on May 22nd, 2010 36
I respect your respect for Laura, but still disagree respectfully with regard to her intentions.
In China you can hire a simple car and driver to take you anywhere as long as you don't enter certain restricted zones without a permit (Tibet). The Tumen River border area near Yanji is not a restricted zone and so there is no need to hire a fixer or guide if your objective is just to film footage. Laura Ling could have hired a car and driver in the town of Tumen or even in the city of Yanji to achieve the Tumen River footage objective. She speaks enough Mandarin Chinese to do that and did not need the ethnic Korean guide.
If her intention was to interview North Korean sentries then an ethnic Korean fixer/guide would be necessary and thus the decision to cross the river would inevitably ensue. (However an interview on Chinese soil could have been feasible, as noted in my above reply)
Even Lisa Ling was shocked that Laura used such bad judgement. Lisa knew that Laura was not supposed to cross the river because such a dangerous mission was never discussed prior to Laura's departure. Wouldn't Lisa have told Laura not to cross the Tumen if Laura had somehow shared this secret intention with her "best friend in the world"
8:11 pm on May 22nd, 2010 37
No.
LINK is also promoted in the epilogue.
After the epilogue is the recipe for watercress soup, Laura's favorite. Why it was included I have no idea.
9:24 pm on May 22nd, 2010 38
Al Gore mentioned Laura's mother's "special soup" at the Bob Hope airport homecoming. I'm glad the recipe's there. I just might try it.
11:16 pm on May 22nd, 2010 39
I think the Ling sisters should star in a porn video.
1:30 am on May 23rd, 2010 40
Chris in Dallas,
"I think the Ling sisters should star in a porn video."
Let me guess…
…"CunniLINGus"?
6:10 pm on May 24th, 2010 41
[...] and Lisa Ling have been on media circuit, making appearances on Oprah, Larry King Live and NPR. After a year of silence, they’re detailing their dual experiences with Laura’s [...]
2:54 pm on February 15th, 2011 42
Jewish Television Network and the Whizin Center for Continuing Education at American Jewish University present Laura and Lisa Ling talking about Laura's arrest by North Korean border guards in China, and Lisa's earlier visit to North Korea.
3:19 pm on February 15th, 2011 43
Step 1: Be a funkup.
Step 2: Market yourself as a victim to a dumbed-down population guided by emotion and ideology.
Step 3: Profit.