By The Publisher of The News Observer wrote a column on the differences between how Marine Hotaru Ferschke is being treated and an illegal alien who was arrested after being stopped by police.
A student at Kennesaw State University is being allowed to stay in America illegally so she can finish her degree.
The widow of a U.S. Marine killed in Iraq was deported and is not being allowed to return to this country because she is not a citizen.
The Kennesaw student is Mexican. The widow is Japanese.
Jessica Colotl is the 21-year-old student from the school in nearby Cobb County who has attracted national attention.
She was first arrested in March on the KSU campus and charged with a minor traffic offense. Reports say she told the officer she had a Mexican driver’s license, but could not find it. She showed him a Mexican passport that expired in August 2007 as identification.
Colotl was arrested the next day and turned over to immigration authorities.
The law says she should have been deported.
But, immigration officials agreed to delay her case for a year at the urging of Kennesaw State University officials, Colotl’s friends, and several advocacy groups.
Since those first events, the illegal Mexican immigrant has been charged with a felony for giving false information to police. She failed to put her correct address on a Cobb County police report – she lied to police.
Here is an adult who admits to being in this country illegally. She is charged with two crimes, one a felony.
Further showing her disregard for America and its laws, Colotl has been paying in-state tuition to attend a Georgia college. This too is a crime, since federal laws are clear that it is illegal for those in this country illegally to receive any public benefits. In-state tuition is subsidized by taxpayers. She must have known this was wrong, since she has readily agreed to pay out-of-state tuition to continue her education.
Colotl has no respect for America nor the American justice system. She criticizes the system to make herself sound like a victim.
The normal bleeding hearts, and a few new ones, are rushing to help her. The ACLU, the Southern Center for Human Rights, the Georgia Association of Latino Elected Officials, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Georgia Latino Alliance for Human Rights are all fighting for Colotl to be let off the hook and allowed to stay in the United States.
Now, look at how the widow of a U.S. Marine is being treated.
Sgt. Michael Ferschke of Maryville, Tenn., just outside Knoxville, died in Iraq in 2008. He was killed fighting for freedom, defending America against its enemies.
He and his wife, Hotaru Ferschke, were married by proxy while he was in Iraq and she was in Japan. About five months later, their son was born.
Under normal circumstances, Hotaru has every right to be in America. Yet, tucked away from the Cold War is a U.S. immigration law that says marriages must be consummated before they are recognized.
The couple had a child. The consummation obviously took place. The act just did not follow the law’s time line.
Hotaru’s in-laws in Maryville want their son’s widow and grandchild here. Their son, the war hero, died fighting for his family’s right to be here.
Tennessee lawmakers have sponsored legislation in Washington that would allow the family to be together. But, that legislation is stalled in the U.S. Senate. There is little hope of its passage because the Senate has decided to do virtually nothing during this election year.
Hotaru and the child were allowed to stay with the in-laws in Maryville on a temporary visa, but they have now been forced out of America. They are back in Japan.
They committed no crime. They followed all the rules. Yet, they have been thrown out of America.
Where is the outcry for the family of a dead United States Marine? Where are the voices fighting to remember a fallen soldier by extending rights to his family that he earned by his death? How can an admitted Mexican law breaker have more rights than a war hero’s widow?
It is time for Americans to take this country back from those who are destroying it from within. Otherwise, all law abiding Americans can be expected to be treated like criminals, while criminals are treated like victims.
The Colotl story has been covered by CNN and Syndicated Columnist Cynthia Tucker. Why hasn’t Hota and Robin Ferschke’s story not gotten similar coverage? It can’t be because these two based out of Atlanta are too far away. Southeast Tennessee is a 3- 4 hour drive away. Why isn’t Larry King interviewing Robin and describing the treatment of her daughter-in-law a Civil Rights Disaster? It would make a great 4th of July show, and Hota will be visiting her in-laws on that holiday in less than a month.
It is a disgrace how Hota and her in-laws are being treated and more so when excuses and leniency are being shown to people who have no legal right to be in this country.
6:38 am on June 9th, 2010 1
From the article:
How can an admitted Mexican law breaker have more rights than a war hero’s widow?
It is time for Americans to take this country back from those who are destroying it from within. Otherwise, all law abiding Americans can be expected to be treated like criminals, while criminals are treated like victims.
My heart goes out to poor Hotaru Ferschke, and there is no doubt in my mind that she ought to be able to stay in the country. The laws should be re-written so that people like her don't fall through the cracks and don't have to rely on journalists to publicize their story so that they can get fair treatment.
That said, I am frankly disgusted with the way Mrs Ferschke is being used as a hammer to bash others. I almost get the feeling that that is this journalist's sole purpose in championing her cause.
The language used by the journalist is very revealing. In the other case the Mexicanness of the "criminal" is emphasized ("How can an admitted Mexican law breaker have more rights than a war hero’s widow?") even when the nationality is utterly irrelevant, while the foreignness of Mrs Ferschke is not only de-emphasized, she's actually insinuated as a "law-abiding American" (see the last sentence quoted above).
I'm actually hard-nosed about immigration issues, but the impasse comes because so many of the get-tough people are coming from a font of bigotry and racism, and this journalist stinks of that as well. My hometown newspaper, the Orange County Register can't have a comments section about any person with a Spanish-sounding surname without someone labeling the subject an illegal alien.
This masks the fact that "those who are destroying [the country] from within" are actually those who knowingly, willingly, and deliberately hire undocumented workers. Hitting demand by fining and imprisoning them is the best way to curb the supply of illegal immigrants that comes. But that would involve throwing a lot of gringos in jail, so not as many people seem willing to get behind it.
8:18 am on June 9th, 2010 2
"Hitting demand by fining and imprisoning them is the best way to curb the supply of illegal immigrants that comes. But that would involve throwing a lot of gringos in jail, so not as many people seem willing to get behind it."
My thoughts exactly. The federal government tried to force employers to use E-Verify to check Social Security numbers, but many states resisted. Some like Illinois even banned its use by employers in the state. Incredible, isn't it? SSNs are federally issued, so the federal government is well within its authority in trying to weed out the use of false or stolen SSNs, which is a felony. I don't know how states manage to get away with banning compliance with a federal program aimed at reducing SSN fraud. The official excuse by E-Verify opponents is that there are errors in the database. Well, of course, there are. However, the employer has 90 days to clear up flagged SSNs. It's not the errors that worry state governments, employers, and immigration rights advocates. It's the millions of false or stolen SSNs that would get flagged correctly, forcing the employers to fire the employees. With an official unemployment rate over 9% and a real unemployment rate as high as 15%, % of the unemployed out of work more than 6 months, and a jobless recovery, it's hard to make the case that the US economy needs more undocumented workers. Factories, meat processing plants, and other workplaces raided by ICE has seen long lines of applicants waiting to take the jobs.
I do not trust Obama or either political party to write an immigration reform bill that will stop history from repeating itself with future amnesties. The polygamous late Sir James Goldsmith once remarked, "When a man marries his mistress, he creates a job vacancy." The same holds true for amnesty. When an undocumented worker is deported or gets papers, a vacancy is created for another undocumented worker to take his place.
9:21 am on June 9th, 2010 3
“When a man marries his mistress, he creates a job vacancy.”
I thought that was an Oscar Wilde quote. It is a favorite of mine.
10:03 am on June 9th, 2010 4
It was an Oscar Wilde quote that Goldsmith uttered when he married one of his mistresses.
10:14 am on June 9th, 2010 5
I think few people would argue with Sonagi's suggestion about going after employers but once again it all goes back to politics. You have Republicans that don't want to go after business owners and Democrats that want illegals to get amnesty and thus voting rights. This all equates to nothing getting done.
However, any effort to fine employers needs to be combined with a better way for them to hire legal migrant workers. Work visas for migrant workers need to be simplified to provide the business owners with a legal option. With simplified work visa process in place illegal border crossers should then be faced with stiff jail time. Fining of business owners combined with a better work visa system and stiffer illegal border crossing penalties I think would largely reduce illegal border crossings.
10:41 am on June 9th, 2010 6
Ms Colotl became an illegal alien when her parents brought her here as a child, so I don't think she can be blamed for that. Of course, she's responsible for her traffic offense and for driving without a license. And if she gave the police false information, she's responsible for that, too.
What happened to Hotaru Ferschke was very wrong, and I hope it can be reversed, if she wants to come back here.
Finally, a little technical correction – Kennesaw isn't just "near" Cobb County, it's in Cobb County.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia
11:43 am on June 9th, 2010 7
Most Japanese americans are assimulated and no longer are a political positive when politicians are looking for new votes.
Illegal Latinos are a growing major voting block for either party. Both parties would like to gain the Latino vote. Is it right for the country to continue illegal immigration? no. Will it help politicians to get re-elected in the future? Absolutely.
The bottom line is politicians are looking for future latino votes vs doing the right thing for the American people and the country. For the politico's, its about getting re-elected, not country first, or the American people.
Therefore, Hotaru doesn't count. She is only one person.
12:04 pm on June 9th, 2010 8
Immigration reform must include guest worker visas. While I don't generally buy the argument about taking jobs Americans won't do, the one exception is agriculture.
It is seasonal migrant work under very umpleasant conditions and low pay. My area brings in migrant workers to pick apples every fall. Most of the men are African-Americans in their 30s-50s while some are Latino immigrants, often married couples with children. They all live in dorm-like accommodation for several weeks while working from dawn to dusk seven days a week picking apples. Migrant workers' children often look malnourished in a Third World sort of way – frail with a sallow complexion – in contrast to the robust, often chubby children of Latino immigrants who have settled here.
Guest worker visas owned by the employee, not the employer, would offer greater protection against exploitation, like the case of the ICE colluding with a Mississippi marine oil rig company to wield the threat of deportation against Indian H-2B visa slaves organizing for better working conditions.
Immigration reform can work for all stakeholders, including taxpayers, business, government, and immigrants, if it's done right, but like health care reform, I have a feeling politicians will bungle it by compromising too much to please all interest groups.
"That said, I am frankly disgusted with the way Mrs Ferschke is being used as a hammer to bash others. I almost get the feeling that that is this journalist’s sole purpose in championing her cause. "
I think you're on the money here. There is a Chinese saying that fits this story perfectly: pointing at the mulberry tree while blaming the locust tree. As you might have guessed, it means to criticize one thing openly as an indirect means of criticizing another, a very common communication tactic in a country that has never known freedom of speech.
12:14 pm on June 9th, 2010 9
#1,
"The language used by the journalist is very revealing. In the other case the Mexicanness of the “criminal” is emphasized (“How can an admitted Mexican law breaker have more rights than a war hero’s widow?”) even when the nationality is utterly irrelevant, while the foreignness of Mrs Ferschke is not only de-emphasized, she’s actually insinuated as a “law-abiding American” (see the last sentence quoted above)."
Exactly.
Studied linguistics a bit? That's one of the things you learn to look out for when doing written discourse analysis.
2:47 pm on June 9th, 2010 10
#9
Of course it could just be that Mexicans are by far the vast majority (therefore the most visible group) of illegal immigrants.
57% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico
24% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;
9% were from Asia
6% were from Europe
4% were from the rest of the world.
Citation you say? Sure: http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/61.pdf
2:57 pm on June 9th, 2010 11
Leon La Porte at #10:
Of course it could just be that Mexicans are by far the vast majority (therefore the most visible group) of illegal immigrants.
Not all illegals in the US are Mexican, and not all ethnic Mexicans in the US are illegal.
Society and law enforcement [see here] often have a difficult time distinguishing between illegally residing Hispanics and legally residing Hispanics, and I know that in OC there's a large number that assumes by default that any Hispanic they see is illegally there.
3:09 pm on June 9th, 2010 12
You did read my post, correct? I will give you that not all Hispanics are illegal. But, a vast majority of illegals are Hispanic (some 81%). What's to be done? Ignore it? Open our borders?
3:15 pm on June 9th, 2010 13
I understood what you said perfectly. A bit over half of illegals are Mexican.
But I don't think you see my point. Does the offense of Ms Colotl became amplified because she's a "Mexican law breaker" and not just a law breaker?
Do you think there is nothing caustic by the people who derisively talk about illegal immigration as if most Hispanics in the US are illegal?
3:24 pm on June 9th, 2010 14
I thought everyone in the US (other than American Indians) were illegal.
Nope, illegal is illegal. There is nothing wrong with identifying the nationality of the illegal. The nationality is the issue at hand. The person is not an American (citizen or resident), therefore the person is an illegal alien from ________. While I agree some may perceive or wish to use racial prejudices to fan the flames, there is nothing wrong with identifying the law breaker.
6:59 pm on June 9th, 2010 15
When it comes to Mexicans, there is a double standard – has been for years and I haven't seen it change. Case in point – my wife, who is Korean and has a legally-obtained resident alien card (green card) and I decide to drive from San Antonio to Laredo TX to check out some 'touristy' stuff just across the border in Mexico. Neither of us have been to Mexico before, so it sounds like a neat idea. We park the car on the Texas side and walk across to Mexico, spend the day, get some cheesy trinkets, and proceed to walk back into Texas. There is an immigration official sitting at a desk where the walk-over point is, mindlessly watching dozens and dozens of people with Hispanic features walk by, but as soon as my wife and I approach the desk, he suddenly gets up, stops us, and demands to see my wife's green card. There is NO WAY that the last 150 or so people that just walked past this guy were all legal residents, but he doesn't stop any of them – only us. So – what do you call a policy like this? Racist? Double-standard? Two-faced? I don't know – but even on Sesame Street, it's pretty easy to see that One of These Things is Not Like the Other…One of These Things is Not the Same…
It all comes down to echoing what a lot of people here and elsewhere have said, over and over – legal is legal and illegal is illegal. Why did my wife and I, almost 20 years ago when we got married, struggling on E-5 pay, bother to take the time to fill out all this paperwork, go to multiple appointments and interviews, and pay thousands of dollars in application and processing fees when someone of a different ethnic background can just walk right across from Mexico and not only get to stay, but even get public assistance and a driver's license? When my wife was stopped and had to show her green card, she wasn't emotionally traumatized or mentally scarred for life, and she didn't go screaming for the ACLU to complain that her rights were violated. The law is the law, so she showed the card and moved on along. Were we both massively pissed because the whole thing seemed like BS? Of course, and in all the time since we took that trip (which was before 9-11), I don't think anything has changed. I had a hard time coming up with a good explanation for her as to why this BS happened and why some of her tax withholdings were going for welfare for illegals (yes, in case you didn't know – permanent resident aliens – green card holders – are subject to tax on their worldwide income – check it out with the IRS).
Yes, this can be a complex issue for many reasons, but it is allowed to be that way because someone who is lining their pockets using illegal migrant workers has the right person to get a hook-up, or some other group is making a mamby-pamby excuse about emotional distress and/or violation of rights. Unless you are on SOFA status over here (in Korea), do you not need to register as an alien resident? Do you not get deported and/or fined if you screw around with your visa status or overstay your deadline? Are you not required to carry your proof of registration at all times? I really can't see a big problem with what Arizona is trying to do – but it's merely a finger in the dike as long as Uncle Sam continues to turn a blind eye, no matter who is in office…
7:16 pm on June 9th, 2010 16
#10,
You need to learn to read for connotation.
#11,
Exactly.
7:20 pm on June 9th, 2010 17
"yes, in case you didn’t know – permanent resident aliens – green card holders – are subject to tax on their worldwide income – check it out with the IRS"
Anti-immigration policy, no doubt.
7:38 pm on June 9th, 2010 18
#16
I do not care about connotations. Let be be clear. If you are in the US illegally, you should be at least kicked out and possibly fined and prosecuted. Illegal is illegal despite race, creed, color, religion and/or any combination thereof. I believe all illegals (when it makes the news) should be identified. Irish illegal, Russian illegal, Canadian illegal, Malaysian illegal, Honduran illegal and yes, even Mexican illegal. What are we trying to hide? Who doesn't know this? Is it thoughtcrime? Doublespeak?
I'll even do you one better; lets treat those who are illegal in our country they way we would be treated if we were illegal in theirs. Have you seen Mexico's immigration laws and penalties?
Not only are they tougher but discrimination is written into their code to favor Mexicans. It's their country. But American is OUR country. Not there's. Not til they legally enter and earn their citizenship. Educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Mexic…
Connotations my ass. The word illegal carries all the connotations I need.
10:06 pm on June 9th, 2010 19
"I’m actually hard-nosed about immigration issues, but the impasse comes because so many of the get-tough people are coming from a font of bigotry and racism, and this journalist stinks of that as well."
First off, the author of this is not a journalist. He's a columnist and expected to voice an opinion. The article says he is also the paper's publisher. I'm not all that well immersed in news ethics and no nothing about this paper. However, I suspect this Harbison fellow isn't known for writing traditional news articles.
Kushibo you bring up racism. I sometimes wonder if your side of this debate isn't practicing racism. Not you personally, but the folks you've apparently aligned yourself with. I've mentioned a couple times about a prostitution bust a couple years back here in Dallas which involved Korean hookers on expired visas. Local attorneys and groups in the immigration community here stepped in to help out. I know some of these people personally and others I know by reputation. There was none of the usually rhetoric about unfairness, racism, exploitation or mentions of "undocumented workers". No, these advocates suddenly took a "by the book" approach. Their typical attitude was these girls had broken the law and they were just in the mix to get them deported in as swift and pleasant a manner as possible. Apparently they only exert effort for Hispanics or maybe Haitians. If this isn't racism, it is almost certainly cynicism.
And speaking of cynicism, there may be another angle where it is relevant with Mrs. Freschke. There are a number of immigration advocacy groups and individuals in America. As best I can determine, none of them have put effort into Hotaru's plight. By and large, these people and organizations are on the left side of the political spectrum. I can't help but think, their apparent disinterest comes in part because of her ties to an organization and a war they hold in contempt.
1:06 am on June 10th, 2010 20
There is a saying, that history is written by the victors…I find it sad that as a nation of proportedly free people we find it necessary to exert inordinate and unfair power over the defenseless. As I understand American history, our forefathers came here to flee just that condition. But just the opposite appears to be true: Americans for the most part, as a nation of immigrants, seem hell-bent on competing for some top prize. Yet the only prize worth winning is the one which eludes all but the servants and the gentile – that of most obvious note to those who truly understand the promise of this great country. That freedom, true freedom, is not a matter of place or time, but of a feeling deep within, one that beckons us to follow our dreams while respecting those of others.
As a recent citizen of the great state of Connecticut, I have had the pleasure of mingling with a vastly greater mix of nationalities than in my native state of Pennsylvania. My parents recently lived in Maryville TN, and I know the place. I applaud the efforts of the college there, and of the townspeople. It is a very kind and decent place to live, but only because of the people there.
And so I wonder…if everyone who reads this says they desire to live in peace and true freedom, then why do we deny it of others? After all, we all sprang from the same group of ancestors who sailed dangerous seas to come here. Are we that short-sighted, or has simple greed taken away our promise?
Mark Reed Jones
Bristol, CT
3:07 am on June 10th, 2010 21
[...] The ROK Drop Story Here. [...]
3:27 am on June 10th, 2010 22
Chris in Dallas wrote:
Kushibo you bring up racism. I sometimes wonder if your side of this debate isn’t practicing racism. Not you personally, but the folks you’ve apparently aligned yourself with.
My side of the debate? The folks I've apparently aligned myself with?
Not sure who that is, but I'm guessing Sonagi might be the only one in America who comes close to thinking the same way I do about this debate.
3:29 am on June 10th, 2010 23
Connotations my ass. The word illegal carries all the connotations I need.
Um, that was my point.
7:07 am on June 10th, 2010 24
@Kushibo. Speaking of illegal entry, have you finished reading Somewhere Inside?
7:10 am on June 10th, 2010 25
Glans, it was sent to my parents' home in Orange County, where I'll be going in a few days. My mom is reading it first (and she chastised me again for being too hard on Lisa Ling).
9:06 am on June 10th, 2010 26
Okay #21 M-R-J – I want to understand exactly what that whole ramble you were on is about. So it's open borders, who cares about 9-11 – everybody's okay when you dig down deep. They all have something to contribute, even if it's the overthrow of the government and the mass murder of citizens – it doesn't matter that much, right. Oh – and while we're at it, why not get rid of CBP to – I mean, if the borders are open, you can save all kinds of tax money by shifting those resources somewhere else. And speaking of taxes, I'm sure you're a fan of raising those taxes along the European model 40% or better so that those of us that actually work can care for and feed all these people you welcome with open arms so as not to 'deny peace and freedom'. All this paperwork and processing that my family did leagally – - ehh – means nothing. How about this – let's open up the border, but make the only point of entry Fairfield County, CT. Then write us back in a few months and let us know how that's working out…
10:17 am on June 10th, 2010 27
Racism, racism, racism.
The constant whiny fallback for those who don't want to face the fact that inferior or conflicting goals, values and behaviors are the real reasons for most discrimination.
In your quest to answer every disagreement and excuse every conflict with the blame on racism, are you all so blind that you never questioned why the former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, looked more like Rock Hudson than Cheech Marin?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mexican
It isn't about race. It is about "Mexican"… and the indisputable fact that many of the values that Mexico and Mexicans are wishing to impose upon the United States are not only inconsistent with American goals and values, but are also inconsistent with success…
…and, for evidence, I give you Exhibit A… also known as Mexico.
9:59 pm on June 10th, 2010 28
@Kushibo: Please don't take this the wrong way. I try not to be conclusive about people by what the post on the internet. However, you've posted a bunch of buzz words and sound bites (racism, go after businesses, I really am tough on illegal immigration, etc.) which I expect out of those not at all serious about illegal immigration. Now I'm not saying this is you, but you're giving me that impression.
10:21 pm on June 10th, 2010 29
I suppose if you haven't read anything I've written on illegal immigration, you may think that I'm just throwing out buzz words. I think I've elaborated on every single one of those points somewhere in the K-blogsophere [HERE?].
But it appears the problem may lie with you, since you keep trying to fit my views into some preconceived part of the spectrum. Not sure why that is. Are you trying to dismiss my concerns as invalid because you think they're from some part of the spectrum you disagree with? That's the impression you're giving me.
George Bush, I think, had close to the right idea on immigration. On the one hand, it emphasized the importance of fairness and maintaining legal control over immigration, while at the same time it recognized that there were deep social and fiscal costs involved both with ignoring the problem AND with a response that would push people underground.
4:21 am on June 11th, 2010 30
Would the U.S. tolerate 12 million illegal Somali's, or 12 million illegal Russians, North Koreans, or 12 million fill in the blanks? Of course not. Anything after the word illegal, is moot. Illegal is basically ILLEGAL. Somehow hispanics have gained a position where the illegality of being in this country illegally is of no consequence, and to make mention of it is considered racism by some. Why is one group given the opportunity to jump to the head of the line, when all others are expected to play by the rules? Seal the borders, document all workers, make the laws apply to everyone equally.
5:12 am on June 11th, 2010 31
@Kushibo: Understand I have sniffed around your blog only a couple times and haven't noticed much of your immigration related posts here. I didn't mean you to think I concluded you were one of those who didn't care about or even welcomed immigration. Its just you dropped a bunch of comments similar to what such people say.
5:18 am on June 11th, 2010 32
Anything after the word illegal, is moot. Illegal is basically ILLEGAL.
That is precisely my point (one of them). So it is very revealing of the intent of the journalist when he/she gratuitously emphasizes the Mexicanness of the offender (i.e., "an admitted Mexican law breaker" having more rights than a war hero’s widow).
Somehow hispanics have gained a position where the illegality of being in this country illegally is of no consequence, and to make mention of it is considered racism by some.
If you want to talk about illegal immigration, let's talk about illegal immigration. But when the journalist is gratuitously emphasizing the Mexicanness of the offender, it is a pretty clear indicator that he/she has a broader problem with Mexicans of any legal status in the United States. And that, my friend, is one of the places where the illegal immigration debate becomes so poisoned, in a way that undermines our society — in part because there is a tendency among such people to regard all people who might appear to be Mexican as of suspect legal status.
It would have been nice if the Colotl case hadn't been mentioned in the article, if only Mrs Ferschke's case had been mentioned. But then I suspect that this journalist wouldn't have been as interested in writing about it.
Interestingly, if you do a Google search for Hotaru Ferschke, you get 62K hits, but if you remove the word "Mexican" from that word search, it drops 25% to 46K.
8:59 am on June 11th, 2010 33
"Would the U.S. tolerate 12 million illegal Somali’s, or 12 million illegal Russians, North Koreans, or 12 million fill in the blanks? Of course not."
Employers looking for cheap, pliant labor would hire Martians as long as they'd work for less and not complain about pesky overtime pay or safety standards.
"All this paperwork and processing that my family did leagally – – ehh – means nothing."
This sort of argument is disingenuous. It's not like anyone who wants to come to the US can just turn in an application and wait for the visa to come through. Your family came legally because you could. If I were living in a concrete shack with a dirt floor, I'd hop a train north, too, to hell with visas.
"It isn’t about race. It is about “Mexican”… and the indisputable fact that many of the values that Mexico and Mexicans are wishing to impose upon the United States are not only inconsistent with American goals and values, but are also inconsistent with success… …and, for evidence, I give you Exhibit A… also known as Mexico."
And I give you Exhibit B, Mexican immigrant communities in the US. I was disabused of the notion that undocumented immigrants were all raggety poor after seeing some parents drop off their kids in newish SUVs, Subarus, and monster trucks. The fathers work mostly in construction, which pays relatively well. I am amazed to realize that people with limited English and false SSNs can gain an economic foothold in the US because they are willing to work hard and live responsibly. Legal or illegal, immigrants are a self-selected group that is not representative of an entire population.
A couple of years ago, I heard a revealing comment from a third grade immigrant during a discussion about the meaning of the word government. "The government of Mexico is no good because it's corrupt," she explained to me, a sentiment no doubt expressed by her parents and probably shared by other Mexican immigrants.
How is that an expat living for years in Korea is an expert on the goals and values of Mexican undocumented immigrants living in the US?
5:24 pm on June 11th, 2010 34
Sonagi – I think you can see that I was being somewhat sarcastic, but I have a different take on the whole argument. We didn't file the paperwork and pay thousands of dollars because we could – it was because we HAD TO; because doing anything else is illegal. We definitely could have used all that money we paid for a lot of other things back then, being newlyweds, but again the law is the law and we did what the law required us to do.
Mrs. Ferschke is in the same boat – she did what the law required her to do and what did she get for it? A deportation! What do the millions of illegals who snuck in and could give a crap about the law get? Driver's licenses, health care and in-state college tuition! If she had just made her way out of Okinawa with her child via some kind-of human smuggler, they might be living with her in-laws right now in the states – I wonder if she wishes she had done this instead of trying to follow the law.
I can find a place in my heart to feel bad for someone "living in a concrete shack with a dirt floor" and who comes from a place with a corrupt government. But again, do we just open the borders then? There are quite a few groups of people living all around the world in impoverished conditions, but can we move them all to the US? Can we move everyone who is impoverished in Mexico to the US? Will any of these people work and pay taxes, or do we just up ours and deal with it?
The status-quo doesn't seem like much of a solution to me either: turn a blind eye and ignore some groups of illegals while we deport others. You need to either enforce the law or not, otherwise fuel will continue to be fed to the fire of inequity going on here. I know of very few (if any) countries in the world that have totally open borders and/or no immigration control procedures at all, so again, this takes us back to enforcing the law for everyone. In a post-911 world, shouldn't we be at least somewhat concerned at who might be moving in and what their background and possible motives are? The Mexican immigrant community in the US is long-established and is surely used to the way things have been for years. However, after the passage of the law in Arizona, I think you can see that people are starting to get tired of leaving things 'the way they have been for years'…
11:05 pm on June 11th, 2010 35
Sonagi,
Always a pleasure to hear from you… as, when making Manhattans, you are a great substitute for Angostura bitters.
"How is that an expat living for years in Korea is an expert on the goals and values of Mexican undocumented immigrants living in the US?"
I manage to spend a little time with them now and then. In fact, I was just on the Mexican boarder a few months ago… where I was very surprised to see the fence has the barbed wire IN THE WRONG DIRECTION… meaning it is angled toward America.
Unbelievable.
None-the-less, your post was very informative and made me realize something.
Along with criminals and the dirty and diseased, there is a new class of illegal… the ones who take low-skill but well-paying jobs away from Americans who have been paying a lifetime of taxes with their actual Social Security Number yet still can't afford a newish monster truck.
I'm not sure what you are selling… but if it is the wonders of illegal immigrants, you aren't doing a very good job.
Sonagi, America is very likely going to go through some very difficult times in the near future.
To survive this with minimum trauma, the American people need to be unified in their American-ness… their patriotism to the classic ideals of "America" with a proven track record of success.
While many legal immigrants who put in the time and effort required to become American are likely equally (or more) committed to America's success as native-born Americans, many illegal aliens are not.
Many of them have conflicting goals and
external loyalties which are not helping America now and will help even less if the economic or political situation deteriorates.
I'm not sure how you are going to polish this turd, Sonagi.
12:34 am on June 12th, 2010 36
"We didn’t file the paperwork and pay thousands of dollars because we could – it was because we HAD TO; because doing anything else is illegal. We definitely could have used all that money we paid for a lot of other things back then, being newlyweds, but again the law is the law and we did what the law required us to do."
You still don't get it. Obtaining a visa was an option for you, and you did it. Most undocumented residents didn't come here or overstay to save money on visas. They did it because getting a proper visa wasn't an option.
One can feel empathy for undocumented immigrants while expecting the US to enforce its laws. Millions of people are able to live here illegally because US employers hire them. Deportations do not solve the problem because undocumented workers are easily replaced. Any law enforcement that targets the supply more than the demand is bound to fail. ICE prefers to arrest "illegals" rather than their employers because the latter vote and sometimes make campaign contributions.
12:42 am on June 12th, 2010 37
"While many legal immigrants who put in the time and effort required to become American are likely equally (or more) committed to America’s success as native-born Americans, many illegal aliens are not.
Many of them have conflicting goals and
external loyalties which are not helping America now and will help even less if the economic or political situation deteriorates.
"
Wow, you figured all that out while spending a little time with "them" on the boarder (sic). One wonders why ethnographers and anthropologists bother spending years living with groups of people when simply passing through for a few days or weeks makes one an expert. Haven't you lectured expat FOBs in Korea for making hasty generalizations and offering unsolicited advice?
I think I'll steer clear of your smelly turds, CH.
1:16 am on June 12th, 2010 38
#36 – Enjoying the back and forth here, and suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. As far as "getting it" goes, I think I get my situation just fine, as stated in several posts. The part I don't get is about illegals 'not having the option to get a proper visa'. Is Mexico on the list of countries who are state sponsors of terrorists, so their citizens are prohibited from applying for visas? Are there no US Consulates in Mexico for someone to apply at? We of course know the answers to those questions. So the next thing I expect you to throw at me is that they can't afford it. For some, that may be an issue, but I don't believe that's really it either. The real answer is "why bother". Because – we turn a blind eye to these groups. Put the blame where you want – employers of illegals, people that help to sneak them in, people that feel sorry for them – whatever. The bottom line is that they know basically nothing will happen so why even bother to take the time and effort to do the right thing when a driver's license and healthcare await you on the other side.
I'm with you on the last part – let's arrest everyone involved from the employers to the smugglers to the person breaking the law themselves – anyone who's involved in the act from the top to the bottom. It will take some politicians with a backbone, of which I'm afraid we have very few. What we need to do is stop making excuses. I've lived enough places in the world to see that immigration can be regulated and enforced if there is the will to do it.
1:53 am on June 12th, 2010 39
"Enjoying the back and forth here, and suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree. As far as “getting it” goes, I think I get my situation just fine, as stated in several posts.The part I don’t get is about illegals ‘not having the option to get a proper visa’. Is Mexico on the list of countries who are state sponsors of terrorists, so their citizens are prohibited from applying for visas? Are there no US Consulates in Mexico for someone to apply at? We of course know the answers to those questions. So the next thing I expect you to throw at me is that they can’t afford it."
Wow. Either my sarcasm meter isn't working or you are incredibly ignorant about US visa eligibility regulations. Disagreements are often a matter of values, judgment, and viewpoints; thus, people can agree to disagree. That is not the case here. It is a fact that you were legally eligible for a visa while many, if not most people who come here or stay here without proper visas are not.
4:11 am on June 12th, 2010 40
"One wonders why ethnographers and anthropologists bother spending years living with groups of people when simply passing through for a few days or weeks makes one an expert. "
Sonagi. You are too dumb to live.
I grew up near the border. I am very familiar with Americans who happened to have Mexican ancestors but didn't define themselves as anything other than American… and proud-of-God-knows-what Mexican-Americans who defined themselves as more Mexican than American… and who sported Mexican flag colors and talked about how great it would be after Reconquista when the Southwest would, once again, be under Mexican control.
Now, apart from a few illegals in nice cars you see dropping off their snotlings, from where did you gain your knowledge of the situation again?
And then, tell me more, Sonagi, about those illegal aliens you speak so highly of… the ones driving nice cars while working under false SSNs and taking high-paying jobs from Americans while sending their crotch-fruit to American taxpayer-funded public school.
That is your turd, Sonagi, not mine. If you can't polish it, you kinda have to eat it.
4:29 am on June 12th, 2010 41
A decade in Korea and you're still nursing a hatred of some nationalistic Mexican-Americans. How can we export more of your kind?
5:01 am on June 12th, 2010 42
"A decade in Korea and you’re still nursing a hatred of some nationalistic Mexican-Americans."
No, Sonagi, I still love the concept of America… and, because of that, I resent those who are currently destroying it.
I do not want America to resemble Mexico… therefore I do not want those who champion Mexican values and culture to have much influence in the direction of America.
This is a current event, Sonagi, not the nursing of some past experience with no immediate relevance.
So far, Sonagi, you have made an empty stream of hatefully judgmental statements about me… all of which have been false… yet you have not made any attempt to address any of my points or answer any of my questions… or even give support to your own grand statements.
Now, are you going to do that?
…or will I just get another insult from a hateful and bitter rapidly-aging woman with nappy hair and wide hips doomed to die alone in a house full of cats with nothing but the failed dream of leftist ideology to comfort her?
5:27 am on June 12th, 2010 43
I prefer to think of myself as ripened crotch-fruit.
One thing I like about disagreeing with you, CH, is that you substitute insults as you run out of arguments.
1:04 pm on June 12th, 2010 44
I'm not buying it Sonagi – I would like to see some concrete stats on illegals who are eligible vs. ineligible for a visa. I've got a feeling those numbers will bear out an interesting story. Again, why should they even bother when nobody seems to care or enforce the rules anyway…
1:19 pm on June 12th, 2010 45
"One thing I like about disagreeing with you, CH, is that you substitute insults as you run out of arguments."
No… I just throw them in to liven up this one-sided debate… hoping to spur you into committing the time and effort into crushing my position with persuasive argument based on facts.
But it doesn't seem to be working.
Once again, Sonagi, you are full of brief generalized statements of disagreement… but no real substance.
Instead of worrying about form over function, why don't you explain to us how America benefits in any way from encouraging Mexican influence of the lowest sort.
6:43 am on June 13th, 2010 46
I could not find statistics on eligible versus ineligible probably because none exist. Immigrant visas are mostly through family or employer sponsorship. E and H class work visas have specific educational requirements and quotas. Each year 66,000 H-2B agricultural guest worker visas are given in a field that employs an estimated one million undocumented workers. It is easier for an employer to hire a fellow who walks in with a fake SSN than to spend the time and money trying for an H-2B visa that may not be approved. Get raided by ICE? No problem. Just hire more workers with fake SSNs.
Every year the farmer I buy produce from complains about the shortage of people willing to sweat for hours in 90-degree heat picking vegetables. Big, strapping football players promise her that they will stick it out, and then quit after a couple of weeks. She will not hire undocumented workers, and she pays as much as she can, including bonuses for people who work a certain number of weeks. Labor costs are reflected in the prices of her produce. If prices rise too high, people will buy elsewhere, either from other farmers, who often source out of state, or from a supermarket.
I think the argument that undocumented immigrants do work that Americans won’t do is somewhat dubious, except for agricultural work. It is very hard work in uncomfortable conditions, pays little, and is transient.
If coming to the US were simply a matter of filing paperwork and paying a fee, then millions of people entering illegally would not bother to pay smugglers thousands to tens of thousands of dollars to lead them on an arduous and risky journey across the Mexican desert or the Pacific Ocean. Regardless of what one thinks about immigration laws and their enforcement, one must acknowledge that people who come here as legal immigrants or authorized workers do so because they CAN.
12:09 pm on June 15th, 2010 47
Hey Sonagi,
Here is one of the wonderful effects of "Exhibit B, Mexican immigrant communities in the US" that you speak of… well, spoke of… you backed off all that support when the tough questions came up.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100615/ap_on_el_st_l…
5:17 pm on June 15th, 2010 48
ChickenHead 47, when I started to read that yahoo report, I thought it was saying Hispanics were getting five extra votes. But it turns out everybody gets six votes. I'm not sure that's outrageous.
5:29 pm on June 15th, 2010 49
I'm still not sure I get the concept of all these multiple votes. It's like vote inflation. I agree with the Hispanic gentleman. One man, one vote. What's so hard about that?
Is this some sort of judicially enforced gerrymandering? Perhaps no Hispanics held office because they put forth no worthwhile canidates? Perhaps not enough Hispanics cared to vote? I don't know. One thing I do not believe is that you must be of the exact same gender and ethnicity to represent your constituents.
There I said it I believe a black man can represent a white and vice-versa, ad nauseum. When did we slip into that mode? Much ballyhooed "Diversity" has lead to de facto segregation. Any American should be able (and willing) to represent their fellow citizens if elected to public office.
5:51 pm on June 15th, 2010 50
But I'm sure the demographics don't look nice, Leon. You forgot about what's really important…
5:53 pm on June 15th, 2010 51
#50 Oh yeah. Diversity. There it is again.
9:32 pm on June 15th, 2010 52
Glans,
So you are not sure it's outrageous?
Hmmm…
Are you saying it is acceptable to artificially manipulate the way citizens' representatives are chosen… with the expressed purpose of achieving a pre-determined outcome that traditional voting never achieved… based on a racial/ethnic/non-American nationalist agenda that doesn't represent the voting majority?
I never thought about it… but it seems the Nazi party is under-represented in today's government.
Perhaps there is some sort of voting system we can mandate for them to get increased representation.
…unless, of course, some special-interest groups are more equal than others.