By US Representative Chris Smith continues to push the juicy girl issue outside US military bases in South Korea:
A leading advocate in the fight against human trafficking said he hopes a reference to juicy bars in the U.S. State Department’s newly-released annual Trafficking in Persons Report will prompt the U.S. military and South Korean officials to step up efforts to rid the base-area establishments of prostitution and other problems.
“The report has pointed out where the trafficking victims can be found — near the military base — and now presses South Korea to step up the law enforcement,” U.S. Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., wrote in an e-mail exchange with Stars and Stripes.
“But, even more importantly, the U.S. military has a responsibility and a role to play in enforcing the zero tolerance policy,” he continued. “If it is our servicemen who are creating the demand, we have to ensure that they stop exploiting the women.”
Smith, co-chairman of the U.S. Congressional Caucus on Human Trafficking, has authored three landmark anti-trafficking laws. He has a bill now in the House Subcommittee on Military Personnel that would, he said, “ensure that the Department of Defense has an assistant secretary level director for anti-trafficking policy who would oversee a clear and decisive response.”
The State Department’s 10th annual review, released Monday, covered how well or poorly 177 countries deal with trafficking for slave labor or sexual exploitation, ranking them in three tiers. South Korea was listed as one of 28 Tier-1 countries, those deemed best in compliance in the fight against trafficking.
However, the report listed a number of ongoing concerns regarding South Korea. Among them: “Some foreign women … who enter the country on entertainment visas, including those recruited to be singers and bar workers near U.S. military facilities, were trafficked for forced prostitution.” [Stars & Stripes]
I continue to maintain that the best way to handle the issue of human trafficking is to put clubs that hire third country nationals off limits. Most of the Filipina’s working in these clubs know what they are getting into and human trafficking in general has been greatly reduced in Korea in recent years. However, as long Filipinas are working in juicy bars there will continue to the perception of human trafficking, which will catch the attention of social conservatives like Representative Chris Smith.
If 3rd country nationals aren’t put off limits this issue will not go away because the bar owners will just keep finding different foreign women to traffic in. By forcing the bars to employ Korean workers it would pretty much make the human trafficking issue go away because Korean nationals would be much harder to traffic in. The people that will lose if bars with 3rd country nationals are put off limits are the bar owners that will make less money because they will have to pay Korean women more money for doing the same thing these Filipina women are doing.
10:19 am on June 18th, 2010 1
How about just leaving the bars alone and worry about what happens on base? These jerks would be better off worrying about what goes on at home and stop worrying about things like this.
All that will happen is the "trade" will just morph. Put the bars off limits-new types of bars with Filipinas will spring up. Or guys will figure out ways to go visit places where there are not off limits restrictions.
Heck of a world we are sailing into. Guys will soon be able to hump other guys without penalty-but guys can't have sex with a girl……..
10:40 am on June 18th, 2010 2
I've been thinking long and hard about the "third country national" idea and it can't possibly work out. The problem is that there is ~no~ "third country national", there is either a local national or a foreigner. If I walk into a bar and the servers are Korean, then I'm a foreigner walking into a Korean bar. If I walk into a bar and the servers are Phillipino, then I'm still a foreigner walking into a Korea bar. And what if a Phillipino walks into a bar and the servers are Phillipinos? Then there is no American involved and this no such thing as "third country national". How about if a Phillipino walks into a Korean bar that has a Russian waitress? What if the bar was employing a Phillipino that had immigrated to SK and was a valid citizen?
You can go on and on with the possibilities and none of them make sense within the context of "third country national" because there is no such thing as "second country national". You are either local or non-local (or in some form of immigration status). I understand what you really want to say is "put off limits all establishments that hire Phillipino or Russian workers", but that ~is~ racist by definition and in line with US Military values. In the end the best they can do is to put off-limits all establishments involved in human trafficking, then try to ferret out the ones that they can. There already is a very strong policy towards that end.
In the end, this isn't a military issue, its a host nation issue. Prostitution is illegal in South Korea and as such its the SK government that must take care of it. The US Military has no jurisdiction off base, absolutely none. We can create and enforce policy on our own troops, but that is the end of it.
11:20 am on June 18th, 2010 3
I have a better solution to all this.
Just cut off all the balls of GI's.
That will fix the problem.
11:26 am on June 18th, 2010 4
The picture above, one of you guys should take the first one. Wow, she (or it?) is scary looking.
>"By forcing the bars to employ Korean workers it would pretty >much make the human trafficking issue go away because Korean >nationals would be much harder to traffic in."
I think Korea should continue to bring in Filipinas and Russians to service the US troops.
11:41 am on June 18th, 2010 5
So… Is the majority of guys who frequent these bars married or single?
12:50 pm on June 18th, 2010 6
While we are at it why don't we put every grocery store in America Off-Limits too. After all the majority of the vegetables you eat are picked by illegals "human trafficked" in because most Americans won't do the job.
It's absurd to put off-limits an establishment just because it has 3rd world nationals. kind of reminds me of the Nazis.
God help us if some Congressman actually finds out that there are hookers in Des Moines Iowa. Maybe it will make the front page of the S&S too, Oh My God, Prositution Exists in Des Moines!!
1:35 pm on June 18th, 2010 7
#1 You are SO right.
Teadrinker, Back in the day, when I first met Tom's Mom, I and most of us were single. Some were married I'm sure. Most of the married guys were sent an allowance from their pay by their wives. So the single guys had to help them with the drinks if they were going to party with us. But the Korean Ladies were reasonably priced for their work. Back then a short time was $20 DOLLARS for a Korean woman. 1988 it doubled!! I was horrified.
I hear a Flip will go for triple digits these days — in Korea. Not that she will see much of it. Don't know what the Korean guys pay for the Flips or the Russian Ladies. I would think the blondes get a good price.
But my info is dated back to 2003.
I need to visit some contractor friends later this year at the Hump. I'll look aroung the Olympia club and check the current story. If the "O" club is still the "O" club, that is.
3:06 pm on June 18th, 2010 8
I think that USFK is secretly behind the whole thing. Since they are working for tour normalization it is to create more jobs for dependents. Just think of how much booze sales would increase as the more guys drink the skinnier the ladies become. It would also provide a means to pay off their bills in the US while they are here.
3:32 pm on June 18th, 2010 9
I agree with Skippy-San, just leave the GI's alone. Retired GI I think you got ripped off, when I was in Korea a short time was $10 and an overnight was $20 where you would get laid at least twice, once before you crashed out & once in the morning. If you knew the girl you or if she liked you technique you might get another shot during the night. A couple of days before payday you could get an overnight for $17 or $18. I can't believe the prices the GI's are paying nowadays, that's where they need a congressional investigation, lol. The unfortunate truth is that if you make it impossible for 18-21 yr old testosterone filled guys to get some pogee incidents of rape & other sexual assaults are going to skyrocket. Check the bars out & if a woman is being 'trafficked' then throw the bar owner in jail but other than that just leave the GI's alone.
4:37 pm on June 18th, 2010 10
It's all bullshit and everyone with any sense knows it is bullshit. These pinays aren't being traffic'd they sre begging for the chance to come to Korea to make some "real" money. It is simple economics. What they get for their body in the Philippines is worth three times as much in Korea.
6:44 pm on June 18th, 2010 11
#1 "…this isn’t a military issue, its a host nation issue. Prostitution is illegal in South Korea and as such its the SK government that must take care of it. The US Military has no jurisdiction off base, absolutely none."
You win the internets! +1
And Tom… Oh Tom… An iota of small minority of prostitution related transactions (unmeasurable when considered in Korea as a whole) involve GI's. Koreans are notorious whore mongers. No sane person would even argue that point.
6:52 pm on June 18th, 2010 12
#9 "I think that USFK is secretly behind the whole thing. Since they are working for tour normalization it is to create more jobs for dependents. Just think of how much booze sales would increase as the more guys drink the skinnier the ladies become."
Holy crap. If you're talking about the dependents flooding into Camp Casey, I got to tell you something. Any GI that attempts to consume enough alcohol to drink these,
bovine,calorie challenged Americanser, ladies skinny (or even down to a manageable size) is going to die from alcohol poisoning.Also, to whom it may concern: We need to make the Commissary aisles wider. Much wider.
6:55 pm on June 18th, 2010 13
"Just cut off all the balls of GI’s. "
They are trying, Tom… they are trying.
7:11 pm on June 18th, 2010 14
#2
I agree.
Off-limits based on employee's nationality (appearance) makes no sense. If you haven't been out in the villes in a while or really don't understand what goes on behind the scenes, you get the wrong impression. There are many non-Koreans working in bars who are not here on entertainer visas. Some are married to Koreans. Some are bi-racial and don't look Korean, and some are civilian dependents. How is the military expected to discriminate among them?
#3
"Just cut off all the balls of GI’s."
They've been trying to do that for some time now.
8:19 pm on June 18th, 2010 15
There goes Tom – looking for another source for his 불알 찌개 (bul-al jjigae).
8:48 pm on June 18th, 2010 16
[...] ROK Drop for more details, [...]
11:26 pm on June 18th, 2010 17
Everytime I forget how sick and disgusting human beings are, I read the comments on this blog and return to my senses
11:27 pm on June 18th, 2010 18
"The unfortunate truth is that if you make it impossible for 18-21 yr old testosterone filled guys to get some pogee incidents of rape & other sexual assaults are going to skyrocket."
There's no empirical evidence of this. In fact, the relatively high rate of rape in Nevada suggests that it's a myth.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_05.htm…
11:28 pm on June 18th, 2010 19
PS. I'm not arguing that prostitution shouldn't be legalized.
12:05 am on June 19th, 2010 20
#17 Not sure if that is a good example. There are brothels are in operation in only 8 counties; as of June/July 2008 there were a grand total 28 legal brothels in Nevada. I doubt they can service the whole state.
I think it would be more appropriate to look at statistics from countries where prostitution legal and regulated:
Africa: Côte d'Ivoire, Senegal
Asia: Lebanon
Europe: Austria, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Turkey
North America: Mexico, Panama, United States (in some rural counties of Nevada, see Prostitution in Nevada)
Oceania: Australia (in most eastern states, see Prostitution in Australia), New Zealand
South America: Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela
"It is estimated that if prostitution were legalized in the United States, the rape rate would decrease by roughly 25% for a decrease of approximately 25,000 rapes per year…."
Kirby R. Cundiff, PhD
Associate Professor of Finance at Northeastern State University
"Prostitution and Sex Crimes"
Apr. 8, 2004
But all that said. In Korea, it is de facto legal as the law is obviously not really enforced unless:
1. Someone doesn't get their white envelope.
2. "Look, international community, we're doing something."
3. There is a "campaign" (usually a month or so crackdown). As we have all likely noted, the Korean police are only capable of enforcing one law at a time. That is, when they aren't sleeping in their cars.
Once again, this is the sovereign country of Korea's problem.
2:25 am on June 19th, 2010 21
Leon – I think the problem is that New Horizon's day isn't working – they need to increase it to once a month instead of twice a year. Oh, and more inprocessing briefings at 1RC – there must not be enough of those. That'll surely fix it…
2:28 am on June 19th, 2010 22
[DELETED BY ADMIN]
2:41 am on June 19th, 2010 23
There are not Korean whores willing to service American GI's who are poor and can't afford the going rate. Considering that the US is now a defacto bankrupt nation financially, I'm not surprised. That's why all these foreigners are brought in to fill the market need that the US soldiers make up.
3:26 am on June 19th, 2010 24
I just had a tdy to Osan last month. It'd been a long time (1997) since my last visit. I couldn't believe how ghetto the place has become. Sure, it's always been bad but it's got to be at an all time low right now.
Oh yeah, the bar girls asked for $300 for all night. I asked how much it was back home and they lied and said they didn't know lol.
4:36 am on June 19th, 2010 25
"“It is estimated that if prostitution were legalized in the United States, the rape rate would decrease by roughly 25% for a decrease of approximately 25,000 rapes per year….”
Kirby R. Cundiff, PhD"
I've already read his paper. I was not impressed.
One of the key flaws in his argument is quite obvious when you read the Stars and Stripes article at the top of this page (Aren't they being raped if they are being held against their will? Consequently, aren't these bars just localizing rape?). Furthermore, his argument is based on the notion that men rape because of lust (or lack of opportunities, as you suggest), not for power. And yet, most rapists have relationships with other women at the time they commit rape.
PS. The use of prostitutes was integral to the male bonding and woman hating that has led to known cases of gang rape.
4:43 am on June 19th, 2010 26
"While we are at it why don’t we put every grocery store in America Off-Limits too. After all the majority of the vegetables you eat are picked by illegals “human trafficked” in because most Americans won’t do the job."
For the wages that are paid and under the conditions established by the employer, often in violation of labor and safety laws.
5:35 am on June 19th, 2010 27
"that first girl (it?)in that picture looks like Leon LaPorte’s wife."
Tom, Tom, Tom… not at all. I have Leon's wedding picture right here:
http://sheylara.com/images08/1126couple.jpg
10:39 am on June 19th, 2010 28
#27 Niiiice.
And Tom I guarantee the command sponsored GI's, even lower enlisted, have nicer places to live than that hovel you dwell in. As far as Korean women being too expensive, I thought that the going rate at Korean barbershops (where Tom's mom works) charge in the neighborhood of W60,000 vs. $300 for a Filipina… Once again you are embarrassing yourself with your blind racism and fanaticism.
11:57 am on June 19th, 2010 29
60K for a quicky hand job vs $300 for an all nighter (according to the GI's who've used the services)… add up the numbers, dummy. But oh wait, since the dumb creatures called the GI's would f-ck anything that moves and talks including fat cows from the Philippines, math is too hard for them.
12:34 pm on June 19th, 2010 30
ChickenHead, I'm a little upset with you. When I saw that photo of the buffarilla (Definition: A buffarilla is a woman too fat to be a buffalo & too ugly to be a gorilla) I almost choked on the food I was eating from laughing so hard. Teadrinker, I am not an expert on rape but I know you are correct to the extent that many rapes are because of some sickos power trip or some loser mad that he couldn't get a girl friend. Even so I believe that with the availability of sexual services the incidents of rape would go down, would it be 24%, I have no idea. Just look at prisons, most men who are incarcerated are not homosexual but with no women present the inmates have sex or rape with who is available. As for the trafficking issue as I said before send law enforcement to the juicy bars & if anyone is trafficked then put the bar owner in jail, let him suffer what I discussed in my previous sentance. I have known Navy & AF troops stationed at Subic Bay & Clark and they can tell you that the Filipino women know exactly what is going on.
1:10 pm on June 19th, 2010 31
"Even so I believe that with the availability of sexual services the incidents of rape would go down, would it be 24%, I have no idea."
As I was saying, there's no empirical evidence that it would. In fact, I've made a strong argument that prostitution actually leads to rape.
"Just look at prisons, most men who are incarcerated are not homosexual but with no women present the inmates have sex or rape with who is available."
It's mostly about power and control.
Just read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_sexuality
1:17 pm on June 19th, 2010 32
"I have known Navy & AF troops stationed at Subic Bay & Clark and they can tell you that the Filipino women know exactly what is going on."
Did your buddies ever bother to ask the ladies if they were indentured servants or debt slaves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage
1:40 pm on June 19th, 2010 33
Teadrinker,
Prison raape vs. (usually) drunk GI sexual assaults of opportunity might be comparing apples to oranges.
Another point to consider is for the 6 weeks after 9/11, when everyone was locked on Osan AB, sexual assaults went way up. Once everyone could go back downtown to see "their girl", things returned to normal.
4:05 pm on June 19th, 2010 34
Another point: This pictures was taken in front of the Sun club. When it first opened, it was the first bar in TDC with big windows in front (think Aragon Alley in Songtan). The adjushi there ran a clean place and played good music. The place did good business, it was a popular place.
Sometime later, an a ajima took over. Unable to understand or deal with the the new paradigm (running a legitimate bar is a lot of work); the windows were closed up, the DJ gone, the rot gut booze came out, the beer got warmer and the selection decreased, the prices rose, the place opened later and stayed open later and of course the juicy's came along too. It was dark and dingy last time I visited, one beer and out. They proceeded to give hand jobs etc and were busted. I never saw that they made the official "off-limits" list, yet they were off-limits, but they are closed up tight now. She ran it right into the ground in short order.
Too bad. The old time Koreans can't get out of the 70's and will always step over a dollar to pick up a dime.
10:16 pm on June 19th, 2010 35
"Prison raape vs. (usually) drunk GI sexual assaults of opportunity might be comparing apples to oranges."
I think you totally missed the argument he was trying to make.
"Another point to consider is for the 6 weeks after 9/11, when everyone was locked on Osan AB, sexual assaults went way up."
I'd have to see the stats, but…Correlation does not imply causation.
11:23 pm on June 19th, 2010 36
Prostitution is a cause of increased rape? Yep. Sure. Of course.
It would seem that some become so involved in making a point that they lose touch with the reality of the situation.
But then again, if some twit is charging 300 USD to play with her junk, someone needs an asss beating. Whether it be the owner of the hole or the idiot willing to pay to rent it, at that over valued amount. Perhaps both. But wait! What is the cost of a "wife", and what is her function? Does she have and outside income, or does she live off her husband. If she lives off her husbands check, what does that cost breakdown for sex look like? What is more cost effective? To support a wife or rent a hole? Yes, I know women can do other things. But this article is about sex.
So Teadrinker, what is the cost of sex with a wife compared to sex with a hooker? I'm sure you can come up with a formula for that. Which is more cost effective? Don't make me ask Chickenhead!
11:57 pm on June 19th, 2010 37
Teadrinker,
"I think you totally missed the argument he was trying to make."
I guess. What exactly WAS the argument?
Every now and then, a GI will do the raape-is-power thing… when girls leave their doors unlocked or their first-floor windows open… especially after a night of drinking… and where the predator is looking for opportunity. This is the exception, though… not the rule.
Best I can tell, most of the sexual assaults in USFK have nothing to do with power. They have to do with GI Joe not getting any and having no real way to get any and really, Really, REALLY wanting some… alcohol heightens this effect.
So, after a night of drinking, some drunk slut gives him a tiny bit of attention which he mistakes for interest… or she intentionally leads him on to "funk with his head" (yes, some military girls brag about this… and that IS an act of power)… or she doesn't realize that guys have a different idea of "just friends" after drinking… etc.
Anyway, against good judgment on her part, they wind up alone in a room… and, suddenly, after a lot of almost-yes, she says, "no"… or something drunken she later claims is "no"… and, well, that don't fly.
…and another chilling statistic is created.
I'm sure there are lots of opinions and even some facts on this which I welcome… but, in my recollection, most of the GI raape is based on lust rather than power.
With this in mind, and a number of years immersed in the culture and situation, my feeling is that affordable and available prostitution reduces sexual assault… and, probably, fills that need for power for many.
Of course, this must be open, free-market prostitution with willing girls… which reduces the corruption, exploitation and ripoffs which the current model not only perpetuates, but actually requires to even exist.
"I’d have to see the stats, but…Correlation does not imply causation."
Preaching to the choir, there, Teadrinker.
I, also, would like to see the crime stats for September 2001 to whenever they would have worked their way through the system if GI Korea has them.
This recollection is based on what I was hearing from complaining first sergeants in October/November 2001 as well as Word on the Street.
Anybody else have anything to add to (or subtract from) this?
Also, while some claim the girls are slaves and others claim they are doing it willingly, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.
There is no hope in the PI… and for over-the-hill hookers… single moms from the province… fat hutwives with lazy husbands and too many kids… ugly village sluts…etc… this represents a rare opportunity.
On the other hand, why are they charged for the cost of a barfine if they turn it down and why are they locked up at night if they are so free?
They are taken out of the fire and placed in the frying pan where they have no choice but to dance around to keep from getting burned… but that doesn't mean they like it or even do it willingly in some cases.
12:18 am on June 20th, 2010 38
ChickenHead,
Agreed! But — that means she pays YOU for sex. Are you doing a good job?
Never mind.
7:01 am on June 20th, 2010 39
Retired GI,
My wife makes more money than me. Ask her.
No. Better not.
9:54 am on June 20th, 2010 40
"So Teadrinker, what is the cost of sex with a wife compared to sex with a hooker? "
That's a disingenuous argument. I think you need to read the link I've posted about about debt bondage, then tell me if it's the same.
#37,
"I guess. What exactly WAS the argument?"
Read #30.
But, to say that there is a correlation with prostitution based on statistics? Did it occur to you that all it proves is that crime was localized during that period, not that the incidence itself increased? Why don't you ask the prostitutes if more or less of them were roughed up during the period? Yes, you must factor those in if you want to make a credible argument.
11:21 am on June 20th, 2010 41
40
Disingenuous perhaps. But interesting none the less. More so because no one wants to consider it. When did "debt bondage" and "marriage" become linked in your mind?
2:20 pm on June 20th, 2010 42
#41,
All right. I'll consider it for a second…Nope, my wife and I are partners in every sense of the word (we've owned businesses together). I get as much out of this relationship as I put in. Plus, she now earns quite a bit of money on her own, more than most men I know.
3:57 pm on June 20th, 2010 43
Retired GI, Teadrinker…
C'mon, guys.
You do realize that you are both right, don't you?
You should not be arguing as if your own perspective and experience is the absolute truth.
Your views are but opposing facets in the complex jewel we call "women".
I know quite a few guys like Retired GI who like to tear it up and relax in peace… and a few guys like Teadrinker who found a compatible and complementary woman… and a lot of guys who have to go tear it up now and then to temporarily forget the tortured memory of the sour behemoth they are married to.
The first two groups are happy in their own ways… and don't fully understand the thinking of the other… and universally pity the third.
The only thing I will say, based on conversations with a lot of old guys, it is better to grow old with a good woman than grow old alone… and it is better to grow old alone than with a bad woman.
I met a lot of old guys who had a great time their whole life… but regretted not having a family when they hit their 60s and found the quality of rental girl was less, the price was more and the experience left them feeling increasingly empty.
Good luck to you, Retired GI… and congratulations to you, Taedrinker for finding the right girl.
4:09 pm on June 20th, 2010 44
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's “Thank you, Mister Atkins,' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's “Thank you, Mr. Atkins,' when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool – you bet that Tommy sees!
3:36 pm on September 19th, 2010 45
Oh look:
WASHINGTON (AFP) – A Florida couple pleaded guilty to conspiring to hold 39 Filipino employees against their will working in country clubs and hotels, the US Justice Department said Friday.
Sophia Manuel, 41, and Alfonso Baldonado Jr., 45, were owners of a labor contracting service based in the Florida city of Boca Raton.
Manuel and Baldonado "conspired to obtain a cheap, compliant and readily available labor pool, by making false promises to entice the victims to incur debts," read a Department of Justice statement, quoting court documents.
"The defendants then compelled the victims' labor and services through threats to have the workers arrested and deported, knowing the workers faced serious economic harm and possible incarceration for nonpayment of debts in the Philippines."
Once the workers arrived at Manuel and Baldonado's Florida residence, the couple confiscated their passports, then "housed them in overcrowded, substandard conditions without adequate food or drinking water; put them to work at area country clubs and hotels for little or no pay; required them to remain in the defendants' service, unpaid when there was insufficient work."
They ordered them not to leave the premises without permission and "threatened to have the workers arrested and deported for complaining about these terms and conditions," the statement said.
Manuel also pleaded guilty to lying in an application filed with the US Labor Department to obtain foreign labor certifications and visas under the federal H2B guest worker program.
"These defendants victimized vulnerable individuals for profit," said Thomas Perez, assistant attorney general for the Civil Rights Division.
Agencies involved in investigating the case include Immigration and Enforcement (ICE), Homeland Security Investigations, the FBI, and the US Department of Labor.
7:56 pm on September 19th, 2010 46
The H-2B visa program is rife with abuses like this. As long as the employer controls the visa, the employees are little more than indentured servants. Incredible that at a time of 10% official unemployment and real unemployment much higher that US employers still hire foreign workers to do the jobs *cough* Americans won't do.
9:24 am on October 24th, 2010 47
My husband just spent $800.00 out of our account on "DRINKS" at Las Vegas Club in A-Town South Korea, Is that even possible?
11:21 am on October 24th, 2010 48
#47
Sure. If he opened a tab for everyone in his squadron. But not very likely. He's got some s'plaining to do. And most of it won't be good enough.
I could summarize for him. He got real drunk. He f*cked up real bad. And he promises never to do it again.
11:21 am on October 24th, 2010 49
Upset Wife #47. If you start having burning on urination, a foul smelling vaginal discharge, and/or sores around your vagina, mouth, or anus you'll find out about those "drinks". OMG when I was stationed in Korea in '79-'80 I had a girl who lived with me who ironed my uniforms, shined my boots, cooked me food, & provided sexual services for $100 per MONTH. I didn't spend huge amounts of money buying drinks for her, all those girls drink is juice anyway hence the name 'juicy girl'. I think hubby & you need to sit down & have a talk, I hope you two can work it out.
11:38 am on October 24th, 2010 50
$200 on drinks,
$400 on special time,
and $200 bonus charge he had no idea what it was for.
11:57 am on October 24th, 2010 51
Dear Upset Wife of a GI.
It's very possible. You must have a rich GI as a husband. Most GI's can't afford it, even if those girls area all Filipinos or Russians.
12:59 pm on October 24th, 2010 52
Tom, wrong again. A private E1 (the lowest grade in the armed forces of the United States of America makes more money than you will ever see teaching 4th graders in Korea with your $200,000.00 American tier-3 university master's degree in Parks and Recreation Management. $800.00? That's the bar o"whore"ner "accidentally" adding a zero. $80.00 is not an unreasonable tab for that bar.
1:01 pm on October 24th, 2010 53
Upsetwife – you need to call the credit card company and dispute the transaction. Your husband did not run-up an $800.00 bar tab. Let your credit card company fight that battle.
1:17 pm on October 24th, 2010 54
Check the Pay Charts Betty. At least TRY to know what you're talking about.
Upset Wife, I spent some years in Korea. Never spent 800usd in one night. Ever.
But I never went out with the guys at my expense. Back in the 80/90, a good weekend might have been half that much, to include drinking all two nights and at least one Hooker per night. I was single by the way. If I had been married at the time, I would have found other ways to spend my time.
800USD at ONE location in one night? Sounds like a promotion or PCS party and he covered the tab. Some might say that was foolish. I don't know the situation and it seems you don't either. Gather facts. What does his "history" say about him? I don't need the answer. You know him, not me.
The answer to your question is Yes. It is possible.
1:51 pm on October 24th, 2010 55
Here you go Mary.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13563164/2010-Militar…
I suppose you're going to tell me that's fake and you can't believe anything on the internet.
What's Tom's take home pay? now subtract that from the debt incurred wasting his time in school and AT LEAST PRETEND TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
1:55 pm on October 24th, 2010 56
Also, the eloquent verbiage you so carefully chose to use is very flattering. It's always nice when you can refer to an Army spouse's loved one as a fool. Way to go, you must be really proud of yourself.
8:41 pm on October 24th, 2010 57
Upset Wife,
This has all happened so many times before.
Once the wife-back-home gets involved, things get ugly for everyone… for better or worse. More on that in a minute.
Military "leadership" in Korea does not lead.
While they shouldn't control the actions of servicemembers downtown, "leadership" has a duty to be aware of these all-to-common situations… and they have a duty to be available to offer direction and guidance based on superior knowledge and experience… and they have a duty to stop these types of obviously bad-news events before they even happen.
At the least, "leadership" should be looking out for their boys they know to be married… as screwed up family/finances affect productivity and readiness more than a lot of stuff they fret about.
But "leadership" does not do this for many reason… they are more focused on their scandal-less careers than needlessly disrupting the "way things have always been done"… or disrupting the close, and often corruption-based, relationship between high-level "leadership" and the "good neighbors" that run the downtown bar/prostitution scene where they collect a LOT of cash that goes a lot of places to insure they keep collecting a lot of cash.
So, while this type of thing CAN be stopped, "leadership" says they have no control over it because it is not on base… although they seemingly DO suddenly have control when it comes to curfew, drunken behavior, off-limits to businesses that aren't in the "good neighbor" programs, etc.
This is where you come in.
As has quietly happened in the past, when a wife contacts the club, accuses them of promoting prostitution and threatens to take this up very loudly with several chains of command, the club quietly negotiates a refund of some sort…
…because everybody knows that, apart from paying for a large group of drinkers, there is no legitimate way to spend $800 downtown.
In the one case I know of that the club didn't play ball (or the wife didn't approach them first), "leadership" was forced to put the business off-limits… as they only seem to notice "good neighbor" financial and prostitution scams when they have to… but, careerism dictates they "do something" when publicity leaves them no choice.
So, what went on?
Well, it is possible that he was buying drinks for all his boys… plus $10 or $20 "juices" for all the girls… who would slurp them up as fast as Mama could put another high-dollar mark on the tab.
It is also possible that he drank a lot of alcohol and bought a lot of juice for a young, thin girl dressed in clothes you would never wear and saying sweet things he never heard before.
And, it is also possible, that after spending a lot of money to keep this girl at his side, he didn't want to lose his "investment" and just paid to take her out of the bar and to a motel.
Strangely, though, $800 fits the first situation more than the second or third… unless he is really stupid or likes more than one young girl at a time.
In reality, I'd be more suspicions if it was $500.
So. That's that.
If I were you, I'd try to find out exactly where all that money went and what it went for. I'd get the contact info for the club owner/manager and have a little talk with them. And I'd be very clear with your husband about your plan so he will be encouraged to tell the truth and able to better protect himself from any fallout.
If he got overcharged by the club while drunk, you can get more done from the States than he can with his chain of command which doesn't care… or gets a kick-back.
Clubs seldom screw GIs over directly… but they allow alcohol and scantily-dressed girls to encourage the GIs to screw themselves over. If it was spent at $60+/hour to keep a teenage Filipina on his lap for the night, it is a crappy-but-legit business transaction that is de facto encouraged by "leadership".
You MIGHT be able to get a refund of sorts as the club doesn't want to come to attention… and possibly be an off-limits victim in the next fake, paperwork-generating week-long "crackdown".
If prostitution was involved, you may get a refund from the club if you threaten to expose the situation. The club just doesn't need the possibility of off-limits or reduction in under-the-table prostitution… which would be a bigger financial loss.
This gambit will depend on how much your shyt sounds together over the phone. If you are confident, determined, unemotional and clear in your course of action, it may work… if you are an emotional and angry wife yapping on about their unethical actions and lack of morals, they will laugh at you and it will fail…
…but, be aware… if prostitution was involved and you push this on the military side, your husband will probably wind up worse off than the club… not including what you will do to him with the frying pan when you see him next.
The club will likely say, "If you tell base, your husband go to jail… ha ha ha!" Plan your possible conversations carefully.
The other option is to let it go.
I would suggest you keep a tighter hold of the money… but, honestly, I have seen more real problems caused by wives-back-home going on shopping and funking sprees than I have with GIs in Korea spending too much money getting drunk in a manufactured party town without doing any real harm.
I hope I may give you a small word of advice from someone who watched this type of thing happen over and over and over and over again.
Whatever happened, forgive your husband.
If he is generally a good man and if he hasn't done anything like this before and he never does it again, get whatever immediate concession you need from him and let it go and never speak about it in any future argument.
This kind of thing can make a decent marriage into decades of hell… needlessly.
When he returns to you, he may be a good man and good husband again… but right now, all of the cards are stacked against him.
Anything he did is NOT against you.
Few men can resist the situations and temptations pushed on them by their peers, ignored or encouraged by leadership, fueled by war stories dating back to Vietnam and championed by media and popular culture which frequently confuses a man's worth with his promiscuous sexuality… and it's all far from home in an exotic and seemingly consequence-free environment.
In the end, don't let this event define who your husband really is and your relationship with him.
You are better off letting today erase the past than letting the past erase your whole life.
Good luck.
10:06 pm on October 24th, 2010 58
This is a matter between the Filipinos who provide the service and the GI customers, Koreans should stay out of this mess.
10:13 pm on October 24th, 2010 59
CH, sometimes you really surprise me. Well said and I wholeheartedly agree.
My two cents, I'm not familiar with A-Towns prices but in Dongducheon, 7-10 GI's could easily run up an $800 tab if they are partying hard in the wrong place, and that is with no women involved. The Koreans have got really greedy.
These days, it's actually cheaper to drink in Honolulu than in many of the off post bars in certain towns in Korea.
11:08 pm on October 24th, 2010 60
Leon, nobody is forcing you to spend the money. You shouldn't blame this on Koreans when you're the one who wants to party.
12:19 am on October 25th, 2010 61
All kinda things could happen, it could have been a going away party, he could have screwed up and rung the bell on a crowded night. 800 highly unlikely, unless they were some dumb juicies/mamasans. A "smart" juicy would have spent 300 and then manipulated you, without mama's knowledge. A "smart" mama would have stopped you at 400, eased you to the hooch, and have leave with some sort of satisfaction. So that you come back…..
1:19 am on October 25th, 2010 62
I never said anyone was forcing anyone the Nanjing Nadia, I merely stated it is in theory _possible_ without any whoredom involved. Jeeze, got a guilty conscience?
5:14 am on October 25th, 2010 63
#55, Betty is Tom, as in Beijing Betty. Now, who is Mary?
Additionally, stating an action (might) be foolish (as in doing something), is not the same as calling someone a name.
I assumed that all here knew that TOM was also known as BEIJING BETTY. Guess I'll have to put the number I'm responding to at the beginning to help you out.
Now, who is Mary?
#56, Actually I am quite Proud of myself. For many reasons. One is my 20 years of service. During that time, I saw many military members, from time to time, act in a foolish (adjective NOT noun) manner. Also their wives and other civilians from time to time. Since I'm far from perfect, I must confess that I too, have sometimes acted foolishly (adjective NOT noun).
Hope this was of some help to you Lemmy.
I was going to make TOM (BEIJING BETTY) look up the data on military pay. But I'm sure Betty is greatfull for your help Lemmy.
10:27 am on October 25th, 2010 64
#63 you are responding (supposedly) to the wife of a service member. She is likely separated from her husband who is (supposedly) stationed in Korea. She is likely "struggling" with finances along with the deployment of her husband for a year to Korea. To (imply) her husband is acting foolishly likely does not alleviate any concerns she is "suffering" from.
Here is a personal example: I deployed to Haiti in 95 for a 6 month tour. Almost no one in the army in those days had any combat service. The idiot chaplain (as worthless a position as there is) of my unit convinced ALL of the young, impressionable wives of unit that ALL of their husbands had seen horrific things and they have all changed into monsters and will need years of therapy and counseling to readjust to life back in the USA. "Your husband won't know who you are or the kids" the idiot said. Some of the wives ran home to "mama" never to return.
People are people, but to toss key, "high-impact", words at people who simply don't understand what is happening is simply adding to her fear.
Mary is Betty
11:15 am on October 25th, 2010 65
The wife is right to be concerned. There are so many hanky panky that's going on by the married US soldiers with Filipino and Russian prostitutes that it's not even funny. When the cat (the wife) is not there, the mouse plays. Then after all that they go home to their wives back in the USA, hopefully not disease ridden.
11:46 am on October 25th, 2010 66
#64, I (stated) that it sounded like a Promotion or PCS party. I also (stated) that SOME might think it foolish.
If that is "high-impact" you are very sensitive. Some might think it foolish. Fact, not high impact.
If they are tight on money, I can understand her anger. Other than that, she has no worries. I doubt he was with one of the women. So he likely was not doing what she fears most!
As for your experience, I can understand your anger at the Chaplain. I served with a few idiots myself. I can count the good officers I served with on one hand. Thankfully, that hand is full. NCO's were no better. Don't know how some of them got promoted. On the other hand, I'm sure many of them said the same about me.
12:57 pm on October 30th, 2010 67
Ok, so this week 2,500 spent off of his Government spending card, Now what do you guys think about that? We keep having discussions about what is going on and he says he will not spend anymore…..but it keeps happening and the bill keeps racking up…
1:22 pm on October 30th, 2010 68
#67 If he isn't spending it he needs to immediately report his cards as compromised and dispute any charges he did not make. Card companies are good about this (confidence is important or they are out of business) and it is easy to do. They will immediately issue cards with new numbers and refund the disputed amount(s). The card companies either recoup the cash or take the loss. In the meantime he only need make the minimum payments as of last billing cycles until it is all straightened out.
Either that or he is gambling.
1:40 pm on October 30th, 2010 69
I am pretty sure that the only thing he is gambling with is his Marriage, I seriously doubt he is gambling and he is the one spending the money, He is going to A-Town every night and spending an ass load of money on Im not sure what, but would like to know…He has apologized and said it wouldnt happen anymore, Yet it still continues spending assloads of money every night.
1:59 pm on October 30th, 2010 70
I assumed you were looking for help of some sort. It appears you already know what is going on. What is it you seek here?
2:26 pm on October 30th, 2010 71
Its just I have no idea of what South Korea is like have never been there, He says he is spending the money on Drinks, I really just wanted to hear from someone who has been there if they believe his story, That just seems like way too much money for just drinks if you know what I mean… My husband is a pushover and even more so when he is drunk…If those Juicey Girls are pushy at all then I am sure he would be with one, I just want an honest opinion. And do those juicey girls push prostitution on the Military Men?
2:42 pm on October 30th, 2010 72
UPSET WIFE
DO I HAVE A STORY FOR YOU.MY HUSBAND IS STATIONED AT CAMP CASEY RIGHT NOW.ALL WAS GREAT UP UNTIL MAY OF THIS YEAR WHEN I NOTICED AT FIRST A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS BEING TAKEN OUT OF OUR ACCOUNT.I WASNT CONCERNED CAUSE I KNEW HE WAS HANGING OUT WITH THE GUYS.THEN IN JUNE ALL HELL BROKE OUT.HE WENT THRU OVER 3,000 IN THAT MONTH.HE STOPPED CALLING HOME FOR 3 WEEKS.SO I GOT A GUT FEELING AND SEARCH HIS NAME & EMAIL ON GOOGLE & FOUND OUT HE HAD ANOTHER FACEBOOK ACCOUNT WITH HIS NEW PINAY GIRL.LET ME TELL YOU I WENT INSANE.AND THE WORST PART ABOUT THIS WAS I DIDNT EVEN HAVE A PHONE NUMBER TO CALL HIM,BUT I READ ON HIS FACEBOOK ACCOUNT WHERE SHE WAS CALLING HIM ALL DAY.I HAD TO CONTACT HIS BEST FRIEND THRU FACEBOOK TO CALL MY HUSBAND.HE DENIED IT AND TOLD ME THE SAME STORY HE SPENT ALL THAT MONEY ON BEER AND ETC BUT NO LADIES.HE ALMOST DIED WHEN I CONFRONTED HIM WITH HIS FACEBOOK I FOUND.I GAVE HIM 2 OPTIONS GET DIVORCED,OR WE WORKED THIS OUT AND HE CUTS OFF ALL CONTACT WITH HER AND NO MORE CASH IS TAKEN OUT.WELL HE TOOK THE RIGHT CHOICE.I'M JUST AFRAID WHEN HE COMES HOME WHAT HE WILL HAVE STD WISE.BUT I DID FIND OUT HE WASNT THE ONLY MARRIED MAN DOING IT HIS WHOLE BUDDY SYSTEM WAS TOO.THERE IS LIKE 6 OF THEM WHICH ALL IS MARRIED.MY HUBBY TOLD ME HE HAD TO PAY FOR SEX AND FOR HER TIME IN THE CLUB.THE PEACE CLUB.I EVEN SPOKE WITH THE GIRL HE WAS DATING.SHE IS A RUDE LADY.NASTY MOUTH ON HER.I HAVENT FORGAVE HIM AND I DONT KNOW HOW I WILL REACT WHEN I SEE HIM NEXT YEAR WHEN HE COMES HOME BUT WE HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR 12 YRS AND WE HAVE TO MUCH TOGETHER TO THROW AWAY.BUT IF YOU WANT TO TALK EMAIL ME GIRL OK I WILL HELP YOU.MY EMAIL IS JWW_231@YAHOO.COM I KNOW WHAT YOUR GOING THRU FIRST HAND.
3:13 pm on October 30th, 2010 73
from what i was told from my hubby was that when you go to these clubs the girls are there to make money.they have to sell so many drinks in a month.they will say and do anything and i mean anything for cash.the girl my hubby was dating would spend her only day off with him at a motel when he didnt have to pay.they only get one day off a week.he said he had no intentions of having an affair,but the temptations are to strong to walk away fom being away from me for a year.i call bullshyt cause i'm not fooling around nor would ever think about it.what hurt me was i dont understand how he could have an affair with her after i saw what she looks like.i just dont understand why men go out for milk when they have the whole dairy at home.lol…
3:32 pm on October 30th, 2010 74
Upset wife & Traci. Some men are really crazy. When I was stationed at Ft Leonard Wood, MO from 1980-1983 there was a friend of mine who was nuts but he was married to a very nice sweet Korean woman & had one or two kids(I don't remember since it was so long ago). He started fooling around with another female who was a soldier. This woman was a pure slut, she had put 3 or 4 guys in the hospital with severe gonorrhea, I almost had her as well but something happened one night(this has nothing to do with the story). Anyway my point is the guy had a wonderful family & he threw it away for a piece of garbage. I don't know if it is the excitement or what but I will never forget it. I was single at that time & if she had been my wife I would have treated her like a queen. Upset wife I'm sure with this amount of money being blown that it is more than just drinks, you may have to say to your hubby to either give you the credit card & cut out the whoremongering or the marriage is over. I hope you both can work it out with your husbands.
3:41 pm on October 30th, 2010 75
Traci,
Your husband paid for her, nothing is free down range in the ville, no matter what he tells you. Your husband figured that what goes on in Korea stays in Korea, guess he bet wrong. It all boils down to trust and he should have lost all of yours. When you lose trust in a relationship, you lose everything! Your call sweatheart, best of luck to both of you.
3:51 pm on October 30th, 2010 76
tom i totally agree with you when i found out in june about my hubby and i read what he and her was saying to each other i honestly threw up.my husband never spoke in that manner nor acted this way.he was totally caught up in the sex,and the sneaky around gave him more temptations.he was acting like a high school kid.the juicy he was dating was 23 yrs old with 2 kids back in the philipinnes.she has false teeth.she was pissed when i was on skype with my hubby and i made him call her in front of me and break it off.i was pissed he lied and never told her he was married.her cash flow was now gone.but she contacted me and was very rude and wanted my hubby back but he cut all ties with her.the sad part thou was i am the only wife still today that knows the other men with my hubby are still having affairs with these juicys.i spoke with a few of them and they are not sorry or have guilt.to them their wife will never find out and they like it that way.it's not the koreans doing this its the pinays.they are some very skilled ladies.and yes they do know what they will do when they sign up for korea.but its there job to bring in the cash at all cost.
3:56 pm on October 30th, 2010 77
152G
I AGREE WITH YOU.I LOST RESPECT & TRUST.HE TOLD ME HE PAID FOR HER TIME IN THE BAR & THEN FOR SEX AT THE MOTEL.WHEN SHE SPOKE TO ME SHE TOLD ME HE DIDNT PAY FOR SEX ALL THE TIME THAT SHE WOULD SNEAK OUT AT NIGHT & MEET UP WITH HIM AT THE MOTEL.THEN ON HER DAY OFF THEY WERE EITHER AT THE MOTEL OR THEY WOULD GO TO MT,SOYSON.
4:09 pm on October 30th, 2010 78
Traci, The Club owners usually work them 7 days a week (open at 1630, earlier on week ends, to 1 am or later) Some let them off for personal time, others make the guy pay for the time (Bar Fine). It all depends on the club. My experience is from two seperate tours in the mid eighties and early ninties, but the club owners and their systems are still the same. Plese TELL ME THERE ARE NO CHILDREN in this relationship!!
5:02 pm on October 30th, 2010 79
SO DO YOU THINK IM STILL BEING LIED TO BY THE BOTH OF THEM THEN ABOUT HER HAVING A DAY OFF.NO WE HAVE NO CHILDEN TOGETHER.I DONT KNOW IF MY HUBBY GOT HER KNOCKED UP EITHER AND I WASNT TOLD BY HER OR HIM.HE SAYS HE WORE PROTECTION ,SHE CLAIMS HE DIDNT I TEND TO BELIEVE HER.I REALLY WANTED TO END THIS MARRIAGE,BUT THE HUBBY REFUSES TO LET ME GO OR SIGN PAPERS.I SENT HIM PAPERS IN THE BEGINNING TO SEE HOW DEEP HE WAS WITH THIS GIRL AND HE SENT THEM BACK.IVE NEVER CONTACTED HIS COMMANDER OR ETC.I WANTED TO DO THIS BETWEEN US.BUT YEAH I KNOW ABOUT THE KOREAN LADY WHO OWNS THE PEACE CLUB WHERE THIS GIRL WORKS.MS.LEE IS HER NAME AND SHE IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.IVE TALKED TO ALOT OF SOLDIERS WHO HAVE BEEN TO THAT CLUB AND TOLD ME SOME CRAZY STORIES.I CANT BELIEVE THAT PROSTITUTION IS STILL VERY ACTIVE THERE.I HAVE BEEN READING SOME BLOGS ON THE NET AND WIVES ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THERE WONDERING WHY THEIR HUSBANDS ARE SPENDING SO MUCH MONEY.AND THE SAME REPLY FROM THE HUSBANDS ARE DRINKING IT UP..MAYBE 300.00 IS GOING ON DRINKING BUT THE REST IS ON JUICYS.THEY HAVE OUR MEN UNDER A SPELL FOR SURE.I MET THIS JUICY HERE AT BINGO WHO TOLD ME SHE POKED HOLES IN HER AMERICAN GI'S CONDOM TO TRAP HIM TO GET OUT.SHE GOT PREGNANT AND GOT HER A SOLDIER.THE SAD PART IS NOW SHE IS LIVING HERE ON POST NEAR ME AND AFTER SHE HAD THE BABY SHE WENT RIGHT BACK INTO HAVING SEX WITH MEN NOW HERE BEHIND HER HUSBANDS BACK MAINLY WHILE HE IS IN THE FIELD.I WANTED TO SLAP HER AS SHE SAT NEXT TO ME BRAGGING HOW SHE SLEPT WITH HER HUBBYS BEST FRIEND.SOME JUICYS JUST ENJOY THAT LIFE STYLE I GUESS.
7:03 pm on October 30th, 2010 80
#67
If he spent $2500 on his government credit card in bars, it may already be too late. As soon as it get audited he may be due for an article 15 or worse.
Some guys go on the juicy death spiral. At one guys court martial it was found that he was paying over $300 EVERY night to keep her out of the bar and in his hotel. He had a wife and several kids at home. It ended when all the bad checks he was writing came back.
I am relieved to see how charitable and forgiving we are willing to be with them. At least no one is suggesting the Christopher Gray solution.
9:34 pm on October 30th, 2010 81
Dear ladies, 90% of married GI's have a fling with Filipina and Russian bar girls. But only 10 percent of wives find out about it. Once your hubby gets stationed in Korea, you're screwed.
12:21 am on October 31st, 2010 82
I'll have to join in here. Some guys just lose their mind with some of the Flips down in the ville.
In 2002 I showed up at camp stanley. Before I had unpacked, a troop I had served with at Ft Hood was trying to borrow money.
The girls from the Philippines and working in Korea are near disparate to improve their lot in life. The Korean Women that run these bars house them like sheep. In defense of these Korean Women, they didn't treat young korean girls much better, back in the day, but they did usually have their own room.
It is too bad that the American Congress seems to know nothing about the situation in Korea. The Philippine government will not stop it. It brings in money. The Korean Government will not stop it, for the same reason.
Older Korean Women have no problem using the young Philippine women to bring in money from the GIs.
Difficult for me to understand having a wife at home, but still being drawn into a situation in Korea. Sometimes men act foolishly. (I know I'll get chit from Lemmy for saying that). Women do as well.
Trust and loyality are more important than love. Best wishes for the future.
Ladies, just for your information, "Tom" is a GROUP of Chinese women, known as the (Beijing Betty Project). Pay them no mind.
If i'm not mistaken, Korea doesn't allow Russian women anylonger. They brought the Russian Mob with them. Last I was there was 2004, so maybe things have changed.
I would never stay with a woman I couldn't trust. There are worse things in life than being single. Like being with someone you can't trust. But I would "listen" to her first, before I made a final judgement. Hope you will listen to him first. But then again, it may already have gone too far. JoeC may be right.
12:59 am on October 31st, 2010 83
I find it funny that Retired GI blames everyone except the American soldier who go to these establishments to blow all their family asset. Hmm….
In terms of Korean side of view. This is a necessary evil, for the imported Filipinas to serve the US soldier's sexual needs to prevent the sexually frustrated US soldiers from raping native Korean women. That's what the original Camp-towns were designed for, when they first went up back in the 60's. Before the Camp-Towns were created by Park Chung Hee, to serve US soldiers, the sexual crimes by sexually frustrated US soldiers on Korean women were atronomical. Let's face it, everyone knows that if you clean up the area around the US military bases, then you're going to see a whole lot of young and old US soldiers who are sexually frustrated, explode into anger management issues against the native population. That is exactly why Japanese soldiers were given Korean comfort women during WWII. The difference is that in Korea today, Koreans are paying the Filipinas to become the sacrificial lamb to serve the US soldiers. Well.. somebody has to do it, otherwise face consequences. As long as it's a win win situation for everyone involved, I don't see a problem as long as the problem lies inside and around the US military bases. I guess the only losers are going to be the wives of these servicemen, who gets cheated on and given diseases from their sex buying, lieing, cheating, hubbies.
1:13 am on October 31st, 2010 84
joe your so correct.i would say if he is using his gov credit card to fuel his desires he is in too deep.that is crazy to use that card for this service but ive heard even worse stories then this.these soldiers will do anything once they are in so deep.this was a huge wake up call to me.i really thought i had the best husband in the world.but he proved me wrong real quick.i was lucky to at least find out the hard way but i at least got some what the truth.no matter how strong your marriage is,or how beautiful your wife is and etc,these men change within months after they are in korea.you can only talk and be on video with your hubby just enough to keep them focused.but they need that emotional level with a woman.i thought this was all my fault for my hubby cheating over there but he told me this has nothing to do with me.he said once you get in korea all is well for the few first months then you start to get lonely and depression sets in.i know this is not an excuse by all means.like i told my hubby well what about me being here alone & i havent strayed.i know by his actions my selfesteam went into the toilet.i am very fit and with great looks.but that doesnt matter once they hit the clubs.you could look like pamela anderson and still be cheated on when it comes to these juicy girls.so to the wives out there that think just because your hott and sexy,and your hubby wont stray with a juicy..think again…and a word of advice…i havent let since june seen one soldier who cheated found a juicy better looking then their wife.that was the first thought i had before i saw her.but after i saw her my thoughts changed & i wanted to get to the truth to why he cheated.the only reason i am willing to give him another chance is that i have a wonderful husband when he is home.this is the first time he ever acted a fool.when home he never goes out or anything.he is stuck up my ass.and also i want to believe that he is sorry for his actions.when my husband cries & begs for forgivness,after i gave him options that any man would love to have i knew he still loved me & we can try to repair this.i gave him the best offer to divorce & i would walk away with nothing,, no money,or anything.he refused that offer.he even enrolled in 2 classes in korea to get help.i get up dates from his therapist.and now since june he only spends 200 a month,with proof on our debit card no atm withdrawls.and he stays away from the ville.it has to be a mutual bond.but i am scared once he comes home if i will more hurt just seeing him in person and thinking about how he touched her and the sexual parts between them.
1:35 am on October 31st, 2010 85
Why don't we bring back Koreans into the market? I'm sure there will be many hopefuls who'll want to volunteer, the monetary return to the Korean economy will be better, and the GIs will be left with infinitely more sumptuous meals (take an average Korean girl and an average pinay. Which one would you more likely take out for your dinner party?). There are enough jjimjilbangs and suljibs rolling around so many Korean cities as it is; we can just recycle the jobs there to the relevant places with US bases.
2:35 am on October 31st, 2010 86
Tommy Tang, funny how many red light districts there are in cities with no US GIs, and in areas of Seoul off limits to US personnel. Keep up the slander you fool.
2:35 am on October 31st, 2010 87
#85, K, why do you think the Korean establishments can't find Korean hookers who are willing to service these US military men? Because it's a 3-D job. Dirty, Difficult, Dangerous Job. That's why they import Filipinas, otherwise they go out of business.
2:37 am on October 31st, 2010 88
#86, Hamilton, Korean hookers prefer serving Korean men. That's why you guys have no choice and are stuck with Filipina imports.
3:10 am on October 31st, 2010 89
Tommy Tang, they don't prefer being the plaything of men for money. Funny a foreigner has to explain that to you and your Chinese sorority sisters. I don't expect you to get it, you may or may not have been born low class but you certainly earn it every day.
3:21 am on October 31st, 2010 90
Why do you call me Tommy Tang? Call me Tommy Wong!
3:21 am on October 31st, 2010 91
Because you are Wong!
4:16 am on October 31st, 2010 92
Upset Wife: I served in Korea for 7 yrs. I have seen guys that were over there
and their non-Asian wife had to remain CONUS. There is a term that was coined to refer to guys that developed a malady known then as "Yellow fever". A fixation with Asian gals. I am one of those guys. I was single and after searching for the right one married her. Been together 30+ yrs. A guy will sacri
fice whatever money it takes or anyone (wife/kids) for the Asian fix. I have seen careers ruined because guys would black market their butt off to make enough money to satisfy their desires and meet obligations home of support to
families back home. They sometimes get busted going to far black marketing. Met here and there those that were mental basket cases knowing the
pain of wanting so much to dump the wife/kids for the broad in Korea. It is my
opinion when a guy that gets p—y whipped it Korea it most often sticks. Some
start to rationalize that the wife in the states is to blame for whatever reason. I spent 4 years in Korea as a career counselor. Had a number of guys that re-up for the "foreign svc. tour extension" option. I had their personnel
records. Knew their circumstances. Saw them out and about with their "funny
little honeys". It is MY opinion that this is most likely the problem you are
facing. Sure must be one hell of a kick in head to you but facing reality is
better than being in denial, again–this is only my opinion.
5:25 am on October 31st, 2010 93
Tom#30 "Why doesn't Korean law enforcement go into the bars and clean them up"
You have got to be kidding. The police are bought and paid for. That is the way
things have always been done especially in all matters like this. They may do an
inquiry if someplace is the focus of the public but only then. After they do
something like that and the spotlight on the given situation dies down, it is back
to business as usual.
The notion that the cost for club action being outrageous is in my
opinion not to be the case. The rule of economics is that the costs of all goods
and services sold are based on supply and demand. Sell at a price that is unreasonable, people will not buy and business loses revenue. The profit
margin diminishes. I am amazed at the cost of wine and women in the joints in Korea these days compared to my ville running days but guys are coughing up the dough at these prices I guess in numbers that must be nicely filling up
the coffers of the clubs.
6:30 am on October 31st, 2010 94
#90 Tommy Wrong,
we'll call you what ever we want.
To some you're Tom.
To others you're Mary, Bejing Betty, or simply Punk
You're living up to the Wrong family name, again.
7:41 am on October 31st, 2010 95
#83 Beijing Betty, I blame those that Profit. In the sex business of Korea, it is the Koreans that Profit. Quite simple to understand really.
#88 That isn't what your Mommy said.
Just too easy, couldn't resist.
8:52 am on October 31st, 2010 96
You know what they say Retired Hill Billy, if there isn't a market or demand, then there is no business and no industry built around it. Stop blaming others, and look at yourself in the mirror!
10:54 am on October 31st, 2010 97
As you say, I'm a Hillbilly living in the states since 2005. I F-ed, a few Korean women. I paid them. I fed them. I taught them english. Enough looking in the mirror for you.
There is always a market for sex. Married or not, a man always pays. But that's OK. The way it's supposed to be.
I blame the KOREAN WOMEN of today for making a profit off the sex trade of women that have no or few options, from the Philippines.
Koreans are far from being blameless. You don't want to admit that.
I can take you to Angeles City in the Philippines and we can visit "little Korea town".
You can also google for Koreans killed in AC. Been a few. The Korean men don't want to pay or cheat the Locals. They don't live to do it a second time.
Koreans SUPPLY the sex trade. Didn't happen when I was a young troop. Plenty of local Korean Talent.
Korean women are quite attractive when they are young. During my first four years in Korea, there was never a shortage of attractive Korean Women to roll on the bed with AND for 30.00 US DOLLARS. Back then in 1988 thru 1992 there english wasn't so good. But they knew how to say: "30 dollars-I do everything."
Koreans have been renting out their own women since the war. Now they rent out and cheat the Philippine women.
Because of PC the new troops don't know what the deal is.
When I first arrived, not only did they give us good information about the ville, they also warned us about little kids standing near the side of the road.
Korean Farmers had a nice little way to make extra money from Uncle Sam. Tell the kid to run out in traffic at the right time when a GI was driving by. Uncle Sam would pay lots of money then. What a beautiful country Korea was. Life was so cheap. Get more money for hitting Kid than for cow.
You want to hate America Betty, thats OK with me. I know the reason way. Koreans would not exist if not for America. Then we gave — GAVE — the country back to the Koreans. No wonder they hate us. China wouldn't have done that. Japan DIDN'T do that. I'm pretty damn sure it is a mark of shame for Koreans that we did.
Not the old ones. The young ones that have not suffered war. The young ones need some pain and suffering. They will never know what they have untill they lose it.
I will be happy when China is the dominate power in Asia again. Korea is a useless country, fit only to be gobbled up.
As you always say, America is broke. We need to start trimming the fat. Lets start with Korea.
All in favor?
11:22 am on October 31st, 2010 98
Racist!!! Guys like Retired GI are straight up racist.
I hear the back and forth, and oh the BS!!
Didn't any of you guys ever do a tour in Deutschland???
Gee, I could go to the Redlight District Frankfurt, get drunk, get laid, get drunk some more and come home for less than $100.
I sure don't hear any of this BS downgrading rhetoric against the Germans.
Oh, because you are so correct, I must clarify why I say racist!!
If it is a Korean Whore, or Flip Whore, you talk all shit about them.
If it is a German whore, that is ok.
I just realized, if you were really soldiers, like me, you would have done tours in Germany LIKE ME. You should have seen the Redlight districts in Europe. Why bust on the Asians ..you F*cking Racists!!
Mit Gummi oder nicht? F$ck dich!!
12:18 pm on October 31st, 2010 99
"I will be happy when China is the dominate power in Asia again. Korea is a useless country, fit only to be gobbled up."
Stop acting senile, Retired GI.
"As you always say, America is broke. We need to start trimming the fat. Lets start with Korea."
Let's start with Japan and Germany first. Ask Japan and Germany and their people to shore up their defense on their own a bit? And some more help in the Iraq and Afghan war seems to be in order. Korea has done its fair share of 'repayment' to America for its guardianship compared to many other countries. Do you think the average Japanese, Germans, Italians, British, French, Spanish, etc are any better educated than Koreans than about how America saved/forgave all their asses in the world wars as ROK was saved from Japan and China and North Korea? Hell I think Koreans are the best educated about their history in that aspect. Let's trim down their fats first, they are really fat anyway (fatter than Koreans, at least).
12:23 pm on October 31st, 2010 100
No doubt about it. A blind man can see it. China is the energing force in the region.
BUT America won't give up without a fight!!!
2:00 pm on October 31st, 2010 101
I think Retired GI does the job for me. Just look at his ignorance and racism that's typical of the soldiers who serve in Korea. That's the type of ignorance I've seen before. Koreans pick up on the condescending vibe that these men give out, and you wonder why the locals don't like these soldiers.
2:11 pm on October 31st, 2010 102
Ole Tanker #98, You're right that most of the whining is about Asian whores but this is a blog about Korea. Did you ever make it to Frankfurt, Germany? It was great! They had three different ethnic brothels. One was Black women who were from Africa. One was Hispanic who mostly were from Columbia & Panama. The third brothel was Asian who were mostly from Thailand & Vietnam. The price was 50 DM. This was when I was single. It was far more clinical than Korea & only 'short times' were available, no 'overnights'. When I was in Korea a short time was $10 & an overnight was $20 & you could get it for $17 or $18 before payday. I forgot to add that there were plenty of white women whores in Germany as well. There were no Flips when I was in Korea, the 'business girls' were all Korean but in the morning they would lace up your boots for you when you left. Ah the memories!
3:14 pm on October 31st, 2010 103
That's right, it's all in the memory. You got your shoe laced tied with Korean women who were bought and paid for. But as the only country to ever go from being a Third World country to a advanced developed country, it's all in the past for South Korea. That was a shameful past where our girls had to have sex with, tie up shoe laces for GI's for some lousy 20 bucks.
Now look how the fortunes have reversed. It's your young ones from the States who can't get a job, who are flocking to Korea to get a job. And it's the Americans who are working for Koreans who pay minimum cheap wage for American workers. Just look at how many Korean factories that were built in the last five years.
Yup, have your memories, because that's all you 're left with.
4:22 pm on October 31st, 2010 104
Memories are all I need.
4:57 pm on October 31st, 2010 105
TWBBM-
How ignorance gleens from your words.
I know every morning you fall to your knees and pray to Uncle Sam giving him thanks for not living under the rule of Kim Jong-il.
Wait – you're chinsleze you live in a society with great human rights already. If it were up to me, I would empower the chinsleze government even more.
Chinsleze Police – Hello Chinsleze pesant, What's your blood type?
Chinsleze Pesant – I have O+ blood type
Chinsleze Police – You are under arrest!!
after 6 months in prison absent of stress and eating a healthy diet………..
Chinsleze Judge – You're sentenced to death – harvest the organs!
9:50 pm on October 31st, 2010 106
12:36 am on November 1st, 2010 107
98 ole tanker. You don't understand english well. I listed facts and experience.
Facts and experience are simply that.
This is a blog for the most part about Asia and the Military. Which is why I'm here. I'm sure you can find one that deals with German Prostitution if you look for it. How many hookers do the Germans house per room?
My two weeks in Germany did not convince me that German women are any more intelligent than the Asian women. If you look at most of my comments in other topics here, you will see that I'm much more of a SEXIST than I am a racist.
But don't chit your pants and be such a reactionary. I really don't care about MOST people. Skin color doesn't matter much to me. I have seen numerous examples from ALL races of people that are a waste of skin, regardless of it's color.
Hope that helped you. You obviously need the help.
After thought: I did hear about the brothel in Germany that had a different RACE of woman on each floor. Sounds pretty racist to me. But I like the idea. The Germans understand segragation of the races very well. I'm quite sure the German race is the one that attempted to kill off the Jewish race. Among others. So you keep screaming about racist ole tanker. Keep it real.
12:44 am on November 1st, 2010 108
#98 ole tanker, I forgot something.
German Hookers are fat with big round eyes. They have little education and can't give a B/J nearly as good as a Korean Hooker can.
HAPPY NOW?
1:51 am on November 1st, 2010 109
Ouch.
When they start using the government travel card, it's all over but the cryin'.
…and, by "all", I mean marriage, career, finances, responsibility, ethics, frindships, future employment, respect of his peers and (sometimes) freedom.
There is a big difference between the guy who gets drunk with his buddies and has a little meaningless fun that neither affects his emotions or finances… and the guy who becomes addicted to the juicy scene to the point he knowingly sacrifices everything in his life for idealistic dreams with a hooker who talks of love.
As a wife, I'd understand the first situation if he was generally a good husband. The guy in the second situation needs to be taken out back and put down… as there is no cure for that kind of stupid… and these kinds of guys seem to be screwups for the rest of their lives and take everyone around down with them.
Ladies, if your husbands are the second type, let them go while you are still young and can find a better man.
8:30 am on November 1st, 2010 110
Tom Langley, #102. Kaiserstasse was the place to be. Remember Krazy Sexy, The Marble palace, there were some georgeous Playboy model looking girls.I remember "The House of Thai", no wait that was Essen
No GI's there.
Yes, there were girls of all nationality in Frankfurt. The top floors were where the "Amazons" were.
I did meet some Filipinas in "The Beer House" by the Hauptbahnhoff, they were Housemaids/babysitters for American Officers in Hanau. They weren't klingons of any type, just nice girls out having fun for the weekend.
I just don't remember the vitriolic hatred toward the whores like I get here.
Maybe it is the newer type soldier. Intolerant etc. F8cking a whore didn't used to be an UMCJ offense, now it is.
How many old soldiers do you know who talk fondly of their Yobo from 20-30-40 years ago?
As far as I'm concerend these girls are just like strippers or pole dancer stateside, just making a living, surviving, dealing with life.
Who was that guy, I'm a little weak on my Sociology, Maslov..something about needs, heirarchy???
10:36 am on November 1st, 2010 111
Ole Tanker,
"I just don’t remember the vitriolic hatred toward the whores like I get here."
That is because the system here is different.
The "pure" prostitution you speak of provides a needed service at a reasonable price. What's not to like?
The prostitution in Korea, especially with Filipinas, provides the promise of sex (or even love) but really just drains the money with one juice at a time with little to show for it. Further, with such a large investment in emotion and time, it becomes easier for the Filipinas to run side scams on GI Joe that takes his money with nothing in return… something that can't be done in a system where you pay your money and have your fun.
Pure prostitution exists in Korea but it is off-limits and actively patroled in areas near mmilitary bases. This supports the monopoly on the juicy system which allows "leadership" to claim they are actively fighting prostitution while actively promoting a much worse system… one that encourages corruption, human trafficking and the wholesale cheating of servicemembers.
Because of all this, there is a lot of hatred directed at the Filipina juicy prostitutes in Korea. It isn't racism… it is a symptom of the system that is the absolute worst of all possible systems.
11:14 am on November 1st, 2010 112
Many TANKS Chickenhead. I appreciate your new point of view. Totally different ballgame in KR.
After I heard about a guy buying a whore a $100 bottle of Champaign in Killeen TX, I always asked a girl the price of her drink, If it was the same as mine, I would get her one too. A rule that served me well.
The lesson here is how stupid a young (or old?) GI can be.
11:23 am on November 1st, 2010 113
So you're telling me Filipina juice girls are exploiting the poor innocent naive GI's?
5:07 pm on November 1st, 2010 114
#112, very short sighted. If I'm drinking a $4 long neck and she wants one with a $5 dollar whisky chaser, she might just get it.
10:29 pm on November 1st, 2010 115
#114 Better still is buy a good bottle of whiskey on the way back to your place. Korean women working the bars in Killeen are a waist of time and money. They married to get to america and are either looking for something with greater rank or money. The young amerasian types learned from Mommy and are an equal waist of time. Women in Killeen Texas. There might be some good ones. But not at the bars. But if you miss buying a girl a drink and chatting her up, Killeen is as good as anywhere.
Start off the conversation with: So, how long have you been married? I love it when their eyes get big and they say, "who told you".
10:33 pm on November 1st, 2010 116
Really funny when you met your old Korean girlfriend that married some other guy and you know about it, in a bar in Killeen. "please, you don't tell anyone. ok?"
11:51 pm on November 1st, 2010 117
Ole Tanker, Retired GI is correct, this blog is about Korea, not Germany. It's a different ballgame here. For the most part hookers are legal in Europe, not so in Asia. I've never heard of German's selling their daughter's into the business. They did that in Korea, just so the family could live.
I know about K Strasse, Lamboy Strasse in Hanau,I was stationed there in 78. Oh, and lest we forget…Shit Park.
I memory serve me correctly, In Germany it was strictly business, you paid money, got serviced and that was it, the girl's could careless about you. Not so in Korea, In Germany the girl would seduce you, in Korea the girl would manipulate you.
12:07 am on November 2nd, 2010 118
The whole system is just a reflection of society in general. Greed (of the bar owners and juicies), apathy(of the commands), and irresponsibility (of the GI's).
I am so glad I spent my time ('68-'70) in Korea when I did. I spent a lot of time and money in TDC during the 25 months I was there. I can honestly say I was screwed a lot, but was never screwed over. Most of the girls and mamasans would actually look out for you. If you wanted to buy something in the 2nd market, they'd go with you to haggle with the merchants. Bar fines? Unheard of! It was a different time, and really quite a different place. If a GI is sent to Korea and their only experience revolves around the ville and a juicie, he's a pathetic individual. It's a beautiful country with a lot of things to see and do that don't have anything to do with funneling all of someone's money to a bar owner.
12:13 am on November 2nd, 2010 119
Retired GI #108. You're correct about the Korean hookers vs the German hookers. In Itaewon there were these two fat adjimas who had some girls who could suck a golf ball through a water hose, FOR SIX BUCKS!!! It is unbelievable that some morons now are paying these Flips $200 or whatever. Hell, I would choke my chicken before I would pay anything near that much.
1:05 am on November 2nd, 2010 120
118, DRAGONFLY, you are correct. I first hit Korea in 1988. Last couple of years of the good ole days. No Flips, just Korean women. They really knew how to do it.
Korean Hookers were Professionals. I said WERE.
I feel bad for the Flips as I'm aware of their situation. But I'm not going to be "the one".
I traveled often while in Korea. MWR was great about the tours and I took advantage.
My first four years in Korea were great both in the ville and with the Military. The second tour of three years was less enjoyable (95-97). Political Correctness was taking over.
2002 and 2003 just sucked. Fags in Itaewon and Flips in the ville. Military "leadership" was in shambles. Iraq in 2004–2005 was better for me, but the "leadership" still sucked and cost some lives. Roads are black for a REASON and it isn't the f—ing WEATHER! Not to mention the daily mortar activity.
"Leadership": OK, mortar activity is over. Lets gather the troops in large formations for a headcount. They learned the hard way on that.
#119 TL, my troops in 2003 couldn't believe that a short-time cost 20 USD in my day. For damn good service! They were paying the Russian and PI girls around 200 to get the day off. A 200 USD DATE! I told um they were D/A to their face.
Not to mention the anti-US attitude in 2002, burning the flag and Gatherings in the streets.
Yes, China can have Korea. Our money and troops are waisted on that (so-called) country.
1:35 am on November 2nd, 2010 121
"It is unbelievable that some morons now are paying these Flips $200 or whatever. Hell, I would choke my chicken before I would pay anything near that much."
Well, that's the going rate. Somebody's paying for them, that's why the Filipinas want 200 bucks. Either that, no sex, because Korean whores do not want to cater to you guys. That is why the Filipinas are imported in to meet the market demand.
"Our money and troops are waisted on that (so-called) country."
So you were a waste as well?
I don't know, I do think South Korea is getting to be a better country, it's catching up, and quickly blowing past the US in all economic and quality of life indices. In 2009, only 300 Koreans emigrated out of Korea into the US, which was the leading country for Koreans to immigrate to – and even out of that, most were probably family reunions. And in some areas, Korea is superior to America. Take for instance, the national health care, at birth mortality rate, and life expectancy. Korea is the only country in the world which was a former Third World country to be considered as an advanced industrialized country (OECD).
There aren't too many countries in the world who went from very poor to one of the rich, while the US is one of the fewest country in the world that is going from very rich to undeveloped.
4:48 am on November 2nd, 2010 122
#121, Korea couldn't have done it without the help of the US after the war, and still it took the 88 Olympics to get the rest of the world to notice. But a real Korean would know this Betty.
I voted today by the way.
If you people (chinese) want to believe korea is superior to america, that is fine with me. I live in america and know the truth. Life is good here. But by all means, stay were you are. Don't really need you here. We have enough bar staff and cleaners.
5:16 am on November 2nd, 2010 123
Tommy Two Face – "Korea is the only country in the world which was a former Third World country to be considered as an advanced industrialized country (OECD).
There aren’t too many countries in the world who went from very poor to one of the rich, while the US is one of the fewest country in the world that is going from very rich to undeveloped."
How and why did S. Korea go from a "Third World" country to a "First World" country in a span of 30-40 years? Do you really believe the inhabitants of the land were themselves responsible for this miraculous change? A complete joke! The U.S. and other western nations made S. Korea what it is today. Korea was doing so well prior to 1945, right Two Face. The Japanese walked into your country and took it at will. Handed the peasants a spanking and took the land.
Only after the influence of a true democratic nation, has S. Korea learned to understand and develop as a "First World" nation. Korea would still be a "Third World" sewer otherwise. If I was you Tommy Boy, I would thank your God everyday for the Japanese Annexation or would you still like to power up your ondol with fire wood?
Tommy Boy,
You know it, the Korean people know it and the western world certainly knows it. That's why you come to this site spewing your pro-Korean, Anti-American feces. Verbal retribution for the pain of the Korean verified inferiority complex. Keep on using the
emoticon to mask the pain of what you really feel.
6:36 am on November 2nd, 2010 124
Tom Wrong (TTWBBM) says:
"In 2009, only 300 Koreans emigrated out of Korea into the US, which was the leading country for Koreans to immigrate to – and even out of that, most were probably family reunions."
Funny, the Department of Homeland Security says:
Korea, South
2000=15,721 2001=20,532 2002=20,724 2003=12,382 2004=19,766 2005=26,562 2006=24,386 2007=22,405 2008=26,666 2009=25,859
http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/…
Maybe he was talking about Suriname in 2005 who sent 300 immigrants. Suriname, South Korea – I could see how they could get confused.
Tom Wrong, what are you chinese or something?
6:40 am on November 2nd, 2010 125
The reason the US would go from a "First" world country to a "Third" World (BTW I'm not sure what happened to the "Second" world)is because of all the illegal immigrants that are draining the resources without paying taxes.
But, on the positive side when and if the US becomes third world then all the illegals will go back to where they came. I think Korea is seeing the benefits of "first" world status with the illegal immigration problems that are occuring here. But Korea does not have the kind heart of the US. I recently read about the illegal granting of citizenship to Vietnamize babies born, in Korea, between a Korean father and a Vietnamize mother. Everyone knows that any child born on US soil automatically gets citizenship.
7:43 am on November 2nd, 2010 126
Cmt#97, Retired GI: Wow, you are really way off on this one. The Koreans thru hell throughout history fighting off invaders. Mongolians,Chinese,Japs. The Japs
invaded again in 1906 and in 1910 did unspeakable things to them. Outlawed their
language,enslaved them,took as much of their resources as they could and slave
labor to Japan. The Koreans just did not roll over. They had a strong rebel push
back from 10-45'. Kim Il Sung was a leader of the rebels. Then when WWII was ended
in Europe, we were still engaged with the Japs. We needed help of USSR to go down
thru Korea to hit Japs while we hit them from the other end. We were not sure the
atom bomb was still a work in progress. After the Japs were finished off and things settled down. USSR was taking over E. Europe, Chinese commies took over
China. We wanted to maintain a watchful eye in that region. US Sec of State made
a deal with US that we would be okay with them keeping half of Korea. The Koreans in the South had Sigman Rhee and made him accept this arrangement. The
Koreans, North and South felt like what to hell, here is another country occupying us again. Kim up North had serious street cred because of long fight
with the Japs. The success of the South has been nothing short of spectacular.
Now the younger generation has reviewed history and realized that the division
of the country is caused by us. We are not the noble folks that had their best interest a heart after WWII.
Retired GI, Can't you see the brilliance of the Koreans in going from zero in 53' to a complete democratic society in mid-eighties, an economic giant that has
a GDP bigger than any European country. They are second only to us and the Japs.
Koreans are leaders in bio technology, medical equip mfr and innovation. Their
level of education. Those unbelievable buildings/structures in Saudi Arabia, Dubai and elsewhere in that region is designed and built by the Koreans for the most part.
The Filipinos are a backward, primitive society that has hardly progressed at all since WWII in my opinion. Certainly can't be spoken of in the same breath
with Koreans. Their cultural values aren,t even close. Far less sophisticated
GENERALLY SPEAKING.
YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THE VALUE PARENTS PUT ON THEIR KIDS. The idea that
Koreans push their kids in front kids is whacky. I lived there 7 yrs, mosting
in the 2nd ID. The incidents of a military vehicle hitting a kid are very far and few between. The culture of the Koreans is that their purpose for living is
their children. That is not an exaggeration. 180 degrees from our culture.
RETIRED GI, you spent all your time in and around the ville areas and the ash
and trash, con artist, fleece the GI areas. Most soldiers come home with the
impression it is the land of slanted whores and sliding doors. I thought that to
until I got a 3 yr gig in Yongsan and took tours, taught English in the evening
to Koreans, became embedded with their families. Read books by Halberstan on the
history of the Korean war, also a great is T.R. Fehrenbach's "This Kind of War",
Michael Breen's book "The Koreans, who they are, what they want,where their future lies". I absolutely guarantee they are in your local library now.
Feel free to e-mail me on out of the ROK-Drop forum. jfisher1946@gmail.com
7:49 am on November 2nd, 2010 127
Pete #125, the terms first, second, & third world were coined by the Red Chinese to denote how they looked at the world. The term 'second world' meant the communist bloc, since there is no more communist bloc the term isn't used very often. First world of course refers to the developed world & third world refers to the developing countries in Asia, Africa, & Latin America. Some use the term 'fourth world' to refer to the very poor & underdeveloped countries such as Haiti. Before I joined the Army I used to live in Daly City, CA which had a large Filipino-American community. Some of the women were so beautiful they looked like goddesses. If the photo above is representative of the Flips in the villes now then I guess not too many beautiful Flips emigrate to Korea. $200 for the above, HELL NO!
7:54 am on November 2nd, 2010 128
Regarding my last cmt#126, sorry about mix up in words etc. Did not proof read the
text before sending.
9:02 am on November 2nd, 2010 129
Lemmy is desperate. He's digging up numbers for permanent residents. They could be anybody, businessman, students, embassy workers, not necessarily immigrants. Real desperate.
Considering that in the 1970's, as much as 30,000 Koreans immigrated to the US. Now over thirty years later, the number's down to 300. This is significant and it shows what I've been talking about. 
9:04 am on November 2nd, 2010 130
" $200 for the above, HELL NO!"
You know what they say, beggars can't be choosers.
That's all you're getting or else nothing. 
9:15 am on November 2nd, 2010 131
"The U.S. and other western nations made S. Korea what it is today."
If you want to take sole credit for South Korea's success, then you do realize you have to also take sole credit for failures, right?
I just wonder why wasn't the US so generous towards the Filipino people, that the US didn't build Philippines into an advanced industrialized OECD country with high human development index? Why were you guys so mean to the Philippines but so generous to Korea?
Another question, you guys were successful building Korea up into a successful country, yet have failed so miserably building up your own country? Just look at your country now, totally broke, indebted to the Chinese, and living on borrowed time and on past reputation. Good job there.
Any answers? 
9:55 am on November 2nd, 2010 132
"Why were you guys so mean to the Philippines but so generous to Korea?"
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
11:18 am on November 2nd, 2010 133
126 Jeff. I studied those courses on Korea History and Culture at Humphreys during those eight years that I was there at the Hump. Plus one year in 2ID above the "no smile zone". I own a copy of (This Kind of War) and have read it. Did a report on it. Got an A-. I can't spell to save my life. Also read (Colder than Hell). Also read (The Korean War. Pusan to Chosin). I have also read (GI Joe doesn't live here anymore).
A History of Clark Air Base by Thomas C. Utts USAF, Retired. I have been to the Philippines a few times.
I am well traveled in Korea over a nine year period, off and on from 1988 thru 2003.
I have spent weeks on end in Angeles City Philippines. While not an expert on the Philippines, I do know from my readings that the people were great fighters during WWII. I read (Retaking the Philippines) by william B. Breuer, amoung other source material.
Now that we have established that I know how to read and have done so, on numerous occasions, I can move on. Hell I even own those books.
But here is the thing Jeff, I was THERE in 1988, receiving the "Newcomers briefing".
I actually listened and asked questions. That is what we were briefed on. I have no problem believing it. Not when I sat in the bars in the ville and talked the Hangul with Agima. Later to have her bring over Korean Girls, still in their school uniform, sit them with me and explain that I should teach english to the girl. And later tell me I did a good job and I will be the first american to "be with her". It was no secret that male children were worth more than females. It was also no secret that the girls would work the bar in exchange for a loan to send the male child to college. Nor was it a secret (except for the girls) that Agima would get her whatever she needed and add it to the bill the girl must pay back. Next thing you know a Hooker is born. Korean women done in, by Korean women. Not pretty, but I understand.
Jeff, if you have four kids and can only feed two of them, What the hell do you think you're going to do? Let all four starve or give up one to feed three.
In some places it is called triage.
I'm not the only one that knows this stuff Jeff. Maybe I'm the only one that will talk about it.
The Philippines is not much better off these days in some places. That is why the PI girls work all over the world and send money home. They are in a disparate way now. Koreans were also. So were Americans from time to time.
Life is cheap when times are hard. Americans are known to pay well. We built Korea up after the war. Helped our enemy Japan to rebuild after an Unconditional surrender.
I talked with girls working in Itaewon in 2002 that didn't believe me when I told them what Korean women did for 20USD back in 1988. You remind me of them.
Everything S.Korea has now is great. FANTASTIC EVEN! But if you want to know what they would be without America, just look across the DMZ.
Time for America to leave Korea. They are the children of China after all.
11:43 am on November 2nd, 2010 134
#131 Tom, Korea was more than happy for the help — back then. They worked together with those that had driven the Japs out. The same can not be said in the Philippines.
I was there in 1991, June. My first time there. I was there and heard how corrupt the talks were going. I blame the Americans for not understanding the Philippine mind set. In any case, we would agree to a price for "rent" of our base. They would up the price. This went on and on untill Pinatubo blew and covered Clark and Subic in a foot of ash. Long story short, F-U, you can clean it up. There was even a debate on taking the american floating docks or leave them there. We paid the extra cost and took them with us.
Today Clark Air Base, once a beautiful place, still has not recovered from the looting that took place. The once peaceful streets are now filled with 7 year old beggers and old women. Korean men like it there. They get shot there from time to time.
The Catholic Nuns were so happy when the Americans left. No more prostitution!
Untill a few weeks later when the jobs left and the babies needed food or medical attention.
These days the Prostitution is alive and well. Korean men buying Philippine women bound for the red light areas in Korea, Japan, Kuwait and other areas unknown to me.
Korea will not suffer as the Philippines did, when America leaves. I am sure of it.
12:23 pm on November 2nd, 2010 135
RETIRED GI Cmt#133 Interesting that your experiences were different from mine.
Surprised about the school girl observations you witnessed. Was at Pelham, Casey,
and ASCOM, 64',70,78,81-84,88. I was serious village rat, on a very friendly basis
with a few of the momma-sans. Never saw what I thought was an under aged girl
being in the "business". You are a well read person, a cut above the average GI
Joe. My hat is off to you my friend. You did not address the skepticism I had
about the parents putting a child in front of a US vehicle to get money. I am aware that those matters are handled routinely that way if someone is hurt or killed in a vehicle accident but to
purposely hurt their kids sounds like a bit of hyperbole. Your last two comments
echo my sentiments as well, that goes for Europe and a must for the shooting wars we are in right now. My opinion is we can not stomach that the soldiers
died and are maimed for nothing. So what is happening–the troops continue to…… Reality in my opinion is that we probably have to stay in Korea to
as we did in first place, keep the dogs at bay to stabilize the region be a
deterrent to the nasty stuff N.Korea is adding to its arsenal. Thanks again
for comments
12:27 pm on November 2nd, 2010 136
RETIRED GI: Re-read your comments. You did cover the kids/accidents for money
point.
1:24 pm on November 2nd, 2010 137
I don't believe a single word that Retired GI claims to have seen with Korean parents selling their daughters to GI's and then putting their kids in front of vehicles to get money. Back in 1988, Korea wasn't a fully developed country yet (it was a newly industrialized country, or what was once termed as one of the four Tiger economies), but it was not another Philippines nor even a Mexico. What Korea did was educate its young people, and the young people were in school, not in sweat shops nor being peddled around in red light districts by their parents who would sell them to the GI's for twenty bucks – as claimed by Retired GI. Of course I wasn't there in the US military bases when he supposedly says that all this went on, but if true, then that would make the US military complicit in child kidnapping and child prostitution. Retired GI is the typical thinking that American GI's have about Korea. They live around the ville all their tour, and that's all they know about the country. That is why I agree with Retired GI. It's time for American military to leave. Their attitude has worn out their welcome. I doubt they will even put up a fight for a country that they thoroughly detest, if and when North Korea attacks.
2:50 pm on November 2nd, 2010 138
"Time for America to leave Korea. They are the children of China after all."
It is not yet the right time for America to leave Korea yet. America still needs to stay in Korea to protect America's own interests in the region. Korea can do things for America that other so-called 'great allies' like Japan and first world western countries cannot, and America could also make great accomplishments in the region through its alliance with Korea that it otherwise could not have. Consider the demilitarization of Japan, for example. There are many sets of perfectly pragmatic and sensible reasons for which America is still choosing to stay in Korea, and for which it will continue to do so.
"Korea will not suffer as the Philippines did, when America leaves. I am sure of it."
Yes, you can be sure of that. Have you seen how many other first world countries out there do not suffer as the Philippines without American troops staying? Koreans can successfully build their nations just like them, or would even do it better than them had Korea been situated in a more peaceful and welcoming geopolitical environment than where it is now. Give Koreans the lands and natural resources and peaceful isolation of Europeans, Canadians, or Australians, and Koreans will build you a nation that does not pale to any of them in comparison, even without 28,500 American troops.
3:43 pm on November 2nd, 2010 139
#137 Tom, you need to re-read my post, as you did not understand it.
Parents did NOT sell their daughters to GI's
Parents DID request a loan from the bars in the ville. On condition the daughter would work for the club as a dancer or waitress. If the girl wanted a bed or couch or TV, it was provided and the cost added to the bill. Thereby adding time to the contract the girl had to work for the bar. If you want to pay it off sooner, you have to make more money. The best way to make more money is to be a Hooker. It isn't pretty, but I understand. Parents may or may not have known. I don't know first hand if they did or not.
Korea educated it's SONs, not it's daughters.
Korea was worse than the Philippines after the war. So was most of Europe.
As for the age of any girl working in any bar in Korea, I'm very sure they were of legal age tom.
Or are you willing to admit that Koreans would Kidnap and HIRE underage Korean girls? Up to you, as they are all well into their 40's by now. Twist out of that one.
If you understood english, you would know that I'm well traveled in Korea thanks to MWR and my KATUSA friends.
As for who would fight for Korea if it hits the fan, we already have some history about that, now don't we. It wasn't Koreans. It was Americans along with Troops from 21 other countries. Korea has enough blood from other countries in it's dirt.
Koreans ran and begged for help. Americans and 21 other countries who had never heard of Korea came and fought and died while Koreans ran. Koreans lived like dogs and ate dogs to survive during and after the war. As did much of Europe after WWII. As did the Americans that fought to free Korea. At places like the Chosin. Where were the Koreans? WHERE?
After that it took 30 years for Koreans to rise to the level of securing a loan to educate their sons by sending their daughters to work in Foreigner bars. Were the Korean Agima would turn them into Hookers by increasing their debt.
Still, after all that has been said, I have more respect for the college age Korean girl sitting on a rock on Hooker Hill with her History book, at 0200 hours, renting herself out, THAN YOU DO TOM! She is of your race, not mine. How is that possible TOM? Explain that to me.
What would Hines Ward have been, if his Mother had NOT left Korea? I've seen how Korean men treat their women. I had to help one out of the street that her man left her in after beating her asss. While Korean People walked right on by!
THAT—is why America needs to leave Korea. Korea is undeserving.
Nine years in Korea. I know all the dirt. When you admit to it, then I will tell the better side.
I've had the school kids ask me to "sign! sign!" their book or paper while the teacher smiled and watched. Ten to fifteen in a circle around me. I've been on all the tours MWR had. I've seen the fall colors in the mountain. I've had the MWR tour guide (korean woman) get me drunk in the hotel and ask what (I) looked for in a woman. Big improvement from Korean kids standing at the gate waiting for the GI's to walk out and ask for money.
Hell TOM, I know more about Korea than you do. That's kind a sad TOM.
I even trained for a week along side the Korean "White Horse" Battalion. We Americans were trained separately of course. So we couldn't see how they beat their troops in training, and of course they couldn't touch us.
What was I thinking? You say you were a KATUSA.
You wouldn't know anything about the White Horse Battalion.
3:56 pm on November 2nd, 2010 140
I have to laugh at Tom's quote: If you want to take sole credit for South Korea’s success, then you do realize you have to also take sole credit for failures, right?
Umm, according to you Tom, there are no failures in Korea.
4:14 pm on November 2nd, 2010 141
#138 K, Give me the physical assets of Hines Ward and I could be a pro-football player also.
Doesn't work that way K. You have to play the hand you're dealt. I have to play what I'm dealt.
It is "how you play" that counts. Not what you have.
If, if, if. Don't matter. How you play—with the cards you have. THAT is what matters.
The Philippines could be MUCH better than it currently is. But they don't play the hand well.
Korea played the hand very well. It wasn't a good hand either! Korea got the most out of it's situation and took advantage of all assistance—as it should have.
I disagree with you. Now is a very good time for America to leave Korea.
Number one reason: The Korean People WANT America to leave. They have wanted this for at least ten years.
Fine by me.
You will be much happier with China to protest. Less "racism" that way. I, for one am very tired of Koreans saying they hate America. OK, I hate you back, now let's pack up and go. Koreans don't want Americans on their soil. OK. Most of us never wanted to go to Korea.
Americans go home and everyone is happy. What? We're still talkin! Let us go!
Korea has the best soldiers and plenty of them. Just ask a KATUSA.
5:50 pm on November 2nd, 2010 142
Retired GI,
I disagree that average Koreans want America to leave.
While there is a vocal minority of professional nationalists, agitators and biitchers, average Koreans just don't think about it… unless GI Joe raapes a grandmother or runs over a schoolgirl… which gives the professional biitchers something to biitch about.
In fact, the more educated Koreans generally appreciate America's presence… as it completely guarantees Korea's security.
Further, outsourcing Korea's defense needs to America's professional military is much cheaper than trying to do the same thing on their own.
The benefit to America is a continued presence in Asia… especially one this close to China.
And, of course, there are even deeper levels of complication and second and third-order benefits to both sides.
The America Should Pack Up and Go Home crowd, both the American and Korean versions, are focusing too much on screaming nationalists and arsehole GIs and not looking at a bigger picture of what is best for both nations.
8:23 pm on November 2nd, 2010 143
So let's reiterate what Retired GI is saying:
1. All Korean women are hookers sold by their parents.
2. Korean parents educate only sons, but not daughters.
3. Korean parents push their kids in front of tanks to get money out of the GI's.
4. Americans are the ones who made Korea successful, despite the Koreans who are stupid ignorants who tried hard to fail.
5. I know everything about Korea because I was in the US military in Korea for nine years and I was friends with the gay KATUSA's.
6. Americans should leave Korea so that China can have Korea. That way, Korea will collapse and beg for America to return. I want to see Korea on its knees.
This is what's in the head of your average GI in Korea. You guys seriously need to get out of Korea and clear your heads, because seriously you sound like a crazy.
12:20 am on November 3rd, 2010 144
142 ChickenHead, I've heard those points before. I just don't buy the idea that America is better with Korea than without it. As for the "average", educated Korean wanting America to stay, I don't agree with that either. I knew a few of those. Not screamers or haters. They back me up. What is best for both countries is for American Forces to leave. The only group that will be upset by this action is the Korean Soldiers.
#143-TOM, shows what you don't know. The "average" GI in korea is thinking about what a D/A his supervisior, squad leader, platoon sergeant/leader, company CO/ First Sergeant, room-mate, girl/boy friend is.
Your "average" GI doesn't think much about Korea—AT ALL. Period!
Your "average" GI doesn't even know Korea exist untill they or someone they know is sent there.
Your "average" GI, THESE DAYS, likely only sees the ville and leaves after a year with thoughts of the Philippines in his head rather than Korea.
You should be happy I feel as I do. You should want every American to feel as I do. Are you too ignorant to understand that?
(I did notice that you never said I was wrong about Korea. Of course, that is because I'm right and you know it.)
The "average" GI would love to have one less corrupt country to be sent too. I vote that country to be Korea.
Raise your hand in agreement tom. You know you want too.
America and Korea do NOT need each other. In fact, both will be better off after the divorce.
Korea can have her history and National Pride.
America can get on with the business of America.
Sounds like a win/win situation.
Come on Betty, you know you like the sound of that!
2:40 am on November 3rd, 2010 145
I second Retired GI ! Korea does not need GI soldiers. One less army from a corrupt state called America is good for the globe. The funny things, even in the Philippines they don't want you, nor in Okinawa.
Run, put your tails behind your legs, and gtfo of Asia. Retired GI, of course your average GI doesn't care about anything else other than getting laid, so stop with this nonsense that American soldiers are helping out all these countries out of good hearted nature, so should be worshipped like gods. You're right, they don't where Korea is, nor where Philippine is, they don't know anything other than gang banging, and rapping, and think the US rules the world and everyone should put a red carpet in front of them and bend down on their knees. Well I got news for you, it doesn't work that way.
3:50 am on November 3rd, 2010 146
TO UPSET WIFE-
YOU SAID YOUR HUBBY CHARGED UP 800.00 AT THE BAR CALLED LAS VEGAS IN THE VILLE.WELL I HAVE A SOLDIER FRIEND THERE RIGHT NOW WHO HAS WENT THERE BEFORE & HE TOLD ME THAT BAR ALONG WITH THE OTHERS IN THE VILLE ALL HAVE THE PINAYS WORKING IN THEM.HE TOLD ME FOR THAT AMOUNT THAT YOUR HUSBAND PAID THE BAR FINES TO HAVE A JUICY SPEND THE AT LEAST 2 DAYS ALONE WITH HIM.HE HAS FRIENDS WHO HAVE DONE THIS RECENTLY.EACH BAR CHARGES A DIFFERENT BAR FINE.BUT HE SENT ME THIS LITTLE INFO HE SAID WAS IN THE PAPER ABOUT THE BARS AND THE JUICYS IN THE VILLE.
For the G.I.s at camp casey in Tongduchon, 20 kilometers from the demilitarized zone separating the Koreas, about the only place for an evening's entertainment is "downrange," or "the 'ville." Barely 100 meters from Camp Casey's main gate, this is a seedy mile of sleazy bars, greasy-spoon restaurants and shops hawking everything from American-size bomber jackets to see-through lingerie. But it's the bars that rule the strip: dimly lit dives with names like U.S.A., Las Vegas and Sexy Club, and signs warning that the premises are off-limits to Koreans. Filipinas and Russians in micro miniskirts idle in the doorways, trying to coax G.I.s inside. This is where U.S. soldiers head after an arduous day of drills and training.
3:58 am on November 3rd, 2010 147
#145 HOOHA! After all the bloviating, TOM (chinese Beijing Betty Project) Agrees with me!
Who would a thunk it?
AGREEMENT! With ME!
Now lets get our uniformed Service Personnel out of Korea. Hell, we can even take the contractors also.
I just love it when a plan comes together. No more PCSing to Korea.
I wonder if the new Republican Congress will act on this. Not going to hold my breath.
4:03 am on November 3rd, 2010 148
The U.S. would be wiser to move out of Asia and tell it's allies "CALL us and PAY us if you NEED us". Protecting a country like South Korea is just pathetic as the U.S. has been there over 60 years and it's still a complete mess.
Since Korea can't solve their problem with America on it's soil then they will have to solve it without America and those crummy bases/villes.
4:19 am on November 3rd, 2010 149
Look at your country if you want to see what a real mess looks like, mister.
Go solve your own mess, stay out of Asia, Europe, and anywhere else. Nobody want you in their soil. Nobody.
You are a has been, and you're no longer the top gun. "American Dream" is dead.
5:22 am on November 3rd, 2010 150
Attn All rokdrop readers: Don't feed Tom the troll.