I think there are going to continue to be problems when you mix young American families with Korean residents, but at least a get together like this will let each side air their grievances:
Reporting from Dongducheon, South Korea —The ruckus started with the bowling ball incident.
Several months ago, somebody tossed a 16-pound ball from a 12th-floor window at the World Meridien apartments here, a projectile that residents complained could have crushed any unlucky person standing below.
And thus began a social tug of war between some Korean and American residents in this quaint town of 90,000 an hour’s drive north of Seoul.Thanks to a U.S. military housing policy introduced in February, 1,000 service families moved to off-base housing nationwide, often next door to Korean families.
More than 4,000 Americans converged on Dongducheon, home to the Army‘s 2nd Infantry Division. In some cases, the foreign newcomers made up nearly half an apartment complex’s population.
What followed was a clash of cultures, with complaints about rambunctious American dogs on the one side, and frosty Koreans on the other.
Dongducheon Mayor Oh Se-chang consulted with U.S. military officials before finally proposing a unique solution: In regular social gatherings, the two sides hold cultural exchanges and talk out their differences, an exercise in international relations on a neighborhood scale.
Recently, about 400 Dongducheon residents near Camp Casey, the main military base here, gathered around long tables Oktoberfest-style. Drinking beer and Korean makgeolli, a rice wine, they belted out verses of John Denver‘s “Take Me Home, Country Roads” as well as a Korean ballad about loneliness, “Firefly.” [LA Times]
I am just wondering if the soldiers living in the Korean apartment can sort out their garbage better than their American counterparts living in Hanam Village?
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8:42 pm on October 25th, 2010 1
what a waste of time. Compare this situation with moving 1,ooo whites into some housing project in Harlem, NY.
8:53 pm on October 25th, 2010 2
"I am just wondering if the soldiers living in the Korean apartment can sort out their garbage better than their American counterparts living in Hanam Village?"
ouch!
9:35 pm on October 25th, 2010 3
Good stuff and not a waste of time.
11:10 pm on October 25th, 2010 4
This is EXACTLY what USFK should have been doing for… uh… the last 60 years or so.
Normally, USFK limits itself to mixing with glad-handing Good Neighbors… who are mostly conniving shysters with moral compasses that always point to Screw Whitey At Every Chance Unless They Can Help Me Screw Other Whities Even More.
Chances are that many of these residents are "normal" Koreans getting by in life with little concern about the attendance of the whoore bars or how many cases of beer can vanish from the stockroom this week.
These people have their own own fears and misconceptions of the big, scary and unwelcome GIs.
Meetings like this go a long, long way to humanizing the Others. GI Joe is less likely to throw a bowling ball out of a window if Drinking Buddy Kim is living nearby… and Mr. Kim will smile and greet Drinking Buddy GI instead of making an effort to ignore the big foreigner in the elevator… and, if there is ever another schoolgirl-style accident, these Koreans will be much more understanding that GIs aren't filled with bloodlust and malice.
And, of course, GI Joe will walk away knowing that not every Korean is an anti-American activist or looking to push an overpriced juice or a crappy suit off on him.
So, congratulations, USFK… it looks like you are doing something right.
12:29 am on October 26th, 2010 5
The interesting thing is…this article hit the LA Times before it hit any of the local rags? Could it be?~?
2:27 am on October 26th, 2010 6
"Rachel Galloway was miffed that apartment notices about planned power outages or water shutoffs were never posted in English. " – LA Times
Gee, I live in an apartment too but nobody posts anything in Korean either because they expect me to read English.
So what's going on?
But I agree with ChickenFace that this is a good ideal. And yes, Koreans don't like big dogs being bred in small apartments, it's difficult to keep clean with their big dirty paws from crawling all over outside. Actually, it's a big against the rule/common sense to Koreans and it's enough to make you some serious enemies. Why do Westerners like to raise big animals indoors is something I've never been able to understand. Why not a cat or a cute poodle? How can anyone live with a greyhound?
5:19 am on October 26th, 2010 7
Two Face – "Why do Westerners like to raise big animals indoors is something I’ve never been able to understand. Why not a cat or a cute poodle? How can anyone live with a greyhound?"
This statement almost actually makes sense. Holy Shiiiite! Westerners who live in dwellings larger than a kindergarten cubby-hole have plenty of space to raise a fairly large pet. The space restrictions and large population affect Koreans in soooooooo many ways.
Tommy the humanitarian, who would have thunk it?
6:45 am on October 26th, 2010 8
#4
I'm not sure about last 60 years. 60 years ago GI's would've refused to sit so close to the average Koreans at a table, let alone with their wives and kids… This infusion of American families of GI's into average neighborhoods of ROK is definitely a new situation I guess.
6:56 am on October 26th, 2010 9
Chickenhead wrote:
Meetings like this go a long, long way to humanizing the Others.
Hear! Hear!
When you move into a new place in Korea, there are two groups of people you should get to know and be on friendly terms with: your next-door and nearby neighbors, and the guards and/or folks in the nearby police box.
Of course, when half the K-blogs have their readership convinced that (a) most of the Koreans hate them because their foreigners and (b) by virtue of being a foreigner they are smarter and/or know more than whatever a Korean is going to tell them, then a lot of them figure, "Why bother?"
As for the dogs, I think a lot of these soldiers bring these animals over from the States, no? What are they supposed to do during their tour abroad, leave this "family member" back home with someone else? (If this is correct), then maybe getting the Korean neighbors to understand that might help things make sense a little.
8:17 am on October 26th, 2010 10
Tom wrote:
"“Rachel Galloway was miffed that apartment notices about planned power outages or water shutoffs were never posted in English. ” – LA Times
Gee, I live in an apartment too but nobody posts anything in Korean either because they expect me to read English. So what’s going on? "
Even if your apartment posted notices in Korean, I doubt you'd be able to read them anyway. Aren't you one of the Korean illiterates who fell for that Chinese parody of Korean history textbooks?
It's understandable why American expats, who hail from a country with extensive multilingual services, including voting ballots for citizens, might expect some English-language notices in an area inhabited by many monolingual English speakers.
8:24 am on October 26th, 2010 11
Sonagi wrote:
Even if your apartment posted notices in Korean, I doubt you’d be able to read them anyway. Aren’t you one of the Korean illiterates who fell for that Chinese parody of Korean history textbooks?
Sonagi's back!
Sonagi, apparently you missed the whole thing where Tom was outed as a PRC agitprop. It included the bio of his early years in Seoul completely falling apart.
8:29 am on October 26th, 2010 12
Don't pay attention to Kushibo. He's drinking again.
8:32 am on October 26th, 2010 13
"It’s understandable why American expats, who hail from a country with extensive multilingual services, including voting ballots for citizens, might expect some English-language notices in an area inhabited by many monolingual English speakers."
Apartments are equivalent to voting ballots? Which American apartments offer multilingual services for so that a few of their residents can understand what the security guards are saying?
8:34 am on October 26th, 2010 14
Don’t pay attention to Kushibo. He’s drinking again.
Um, Tom… you do realize that everybody saw it, right?
8:39 am on October 26th, 2010 15
Sonagi wrote:
It’s understandable why American expats, who hail from a country with extensive multilingual services, including voting ballots for citizens, might expect some English-language notices in an area inhabited by many monolingual English speakers.
They might expect it, but should they get it?
I'm writing a lengthy post on this, but one of the things I address is the structural breakdown here. I would submit that if there is a large number of non-Koreans, then it is simply good policy to provide key information in their language (e.g., English in Tongduch'ŏn, Japanese in Ichon-dong, etc.).
But who provides that? In Korea, the apartment complex is usually not the ones making extra money off the foreign residents. It is the individual apartment owners who are often renting to USFK personnel at a premium (largely due to the PCS clause in their contracts, as I understand it). The apartment complex management makes no extra money from these higher rents, but they are tasked with providing extra service?
If landlord owners are making extra money off the non-Korean-speaking tenants, maybe they should provide the means (e.g., by pooling money for a local bilingual real estate agent or a bilingual resident to provide such a service) for their tenants.
8:56 am on October 26th, 2010 16
That is so funny. I've often been told to speak English or get the f*ck out of her/his country because this is an English speaking country.
9:00 am on October 26th, 2010 17
Let me explain something to some of you who have attended these things with "blinders" on. With very little exception, the overwhelming majority of the people who attend these things gravitate to people in the following order: 1-their own family members; 2-friends they already have established a relationship with; 3-people they are already acquainted with, but have no established relationship with. A very, very small number of these people socially interact with people they meet. Maybe there is the "glance and smile" and if that's how you measure success, you're pathetic.
A kid dropping a bowling-ball off the balcony of a high-rise is something that happens all the time no matter where you live. That's something undisciplined kids (and sometimes adults) do. Sometimes people die as a result of the kids actions. That's the way things go whether you like it or not.
A community picnic will do nothing, NOTHING to prevent an armored vehicle from squishing two little girls.
Having the misfits of America's Army behave is nearly impossible in today's Army and those misfits procreate more misfits who congregate with other misfits.
Misfit + Misfit = Misfit
Misfit + Picnic = Misnik
How do you reasonably expect an 18-21 year old to behave?
9:02 am on October 26th, 2010 18
Here's your homework:
Eat at the chow hall-
The Whites eat with the Whites
The Blacks with the blacks
The Hispanics with the Hispanics
etc, etc, etc
It's called REALITY
9:07 am on October 26th, 2010 19
"A kid dropping a bowling-ball off the balcony of a high-rise is something that happens all the time no matter where you live. "
Oh really?
"How do you reasonably expect an 18-21 year old to behave?"
Like human beings and not animals?
9:15 am on October 26th, 2010 20
#19
Wow Beijing Betty, you actually said something that makes sense.
9:47 am on October 26th, 2010 21
#19 Tommy Two Face – "Like human beings and not animals?"
Humans = Animals. I thought Koreans excelled at mathematics. Tommy, your behavior far deceeds that of any lower life form. Gauranteed!
P.S. – Is "deceed" a word? It sounds pretty good in the context of this sentence. Anybody?
10:21 am on October 26th, 2010 22
#17 I think you're right. But I must add one more attendee, the Coreans who wonder by (or were invited by some of those you mentioned) who just can't resist a free feed. These are the same ones who show up at weddings, funerals etc yet no one knows who they are. They also fill up plates and leave at neighborhood birthday parties and suck.
10:26 am on October 26th, 2010 23
#4 I also agree with you to some extent. At least these do not appear to be the usual suspects, "Good Neighbors" aka Korean Golfers with no discernible connection to the installation…
The other indicator is their ability to be at the golf course while normal people are, uh, working. They were highly pissed when they lost their slot machine access.
10:31 am on October 26th, 2010 24
Lemmy wrote:
A kid dropping a bowling-ball off the balcony of a high-rise is something that happens all the time no matter where you live.
Wasn't it the husband who said he threw it over the side during an argument?
10:37 am on October 26th, 2010 25
My own post reminded me. Been a while since I posted this; a blast from the past, but true as ever:
Leon LaPorte
10:13 pm on August 9th, 2007
I am the Korean Golfer.
I will be given access to post for myself and my buddies to use the MWR facilities.
You will be questioned if you are driving another SOFA members legally registered car on-post. I can drive anything I like.
I will not be harassed or impeded in any way. After all, I have a tee time.
I spit on you lowly US citizens that are active duty, GS, contractor or family members (especially the Russians and Filipinas) for you will be asked for 2 forms of ID,
miss stoplights while taxi trunks are viewed etc.While I am waved through.I may also wish to play the slot machines while I roam about post unescorted and unmonitored.Whoops!I do not work on your post.
While the “enemy” on this penninsula looks like me and can easily talk like me, YOU the pasty white man with blonde hair and your filipina wife will be the ones that have to be inspected and answer idiotic questions at the gate.
My Kung Fu is strong!
My servers at the club always get my order right and my service is timely.
You will take what you get, and like it, long-nose.
I (somehow) buy golf clubs and supplies in the pro shop.
I am beyond reproach.
I have a tee time at a decent hour.
These facilties are for ME.
10:43 am on October 26th, 2010 26
#21
Deceed is not a word. You may have been thinking something related to exceed but probably not recede or descend — going from a higher to a lower place, if it's regarding the human relationship to lower animals. But it might be true for the guy throwing the bowling ball out the apartment window.
For the non-throwback humans, you could say exceed, but better to say ascend.
10:45 am on October 26th, 2010 27
#26
Oops. Didn't properly close a bold tag.
10:47 am on October 26th, 2010 28
Tom, again you post something that exemplifies your ignorance.
Your sheltered life has made you socially retarded.
http://wcco.com/topstories/bowling.ball.drop.2.37…
http://20bits.com/articles/interview-questions-tw…
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1240514/Bowlin…
http://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustry…
http://www.startribune.com/local/11588566.html
They want to see what happens. I don't expect Koreans to understand bowling balls because they understand
cats: http://www.koreaherald.com/englishcafe/Detail.jsp…
and
fan death: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death
There are plants and animals, if you don't know the difference…
here you go: http://faculty.fmcc.suny.edu/mcdarby/animals&…
There are all sorts of news stories about crimes committed by 18-21 year old men. For some reason, the crimes they commit in high rates are infrequently committed by other demographics.
Maybe your youthful years in the Chinese Army were spent grabbing your ankles while your superior stood closely behind you, I don't know nor do I care – that's your business.
1:30 pm on October 26th, 2010 29
Leon LaPorte wrote:
You will take what you get, and like it, long-nose.
You took what was a legitimate gripe about civilian use of facilities (and I wonder how true this is now, since AmCham lost their ability to give out passes) and then made it about racism.
Anyway, I came out against a golf course at Pyongtaek, but at least one USFK member makes the case it's necessary.
Since unauthorized access is actually a class and status issue, not a race issue (you notice they're all Korean, while failing to note that most Koreans would not be able to get away with what you allege), I wonder if the move away from the center of economic and social power elites will relieve some of their demand.
1:52 pm on October 26th, 2010 30
#28 Some of that was for the benefit of people like Nanjing Nancy-boy Tom, but point taken.
2:06 pm on October 26th, 2010 31
Top Comparisons Between Your Juicy Girl and Your Bowling Ball
When your bowling ball changes shape, you throw it away. When your juicy changes shape, "You gonna be a daddy!" Then you throw it away.
Mama doesn't charge you $300 to put your pee-pee in your bowling ball… and, no matter how drunk you are, you don't really want to.
At night, the bowling balls are stored close together on a rack in a locked room where customers can't get to them… and so are the juicies.
When you buy a bowling ball, you don't have to pay for 14 other bowling balls back at the factory.
Both of them, someday, will likely wind up in the gutter.
You are doing really well to get a five-bagger with your bowling ball. With your juicy, that's beyond wolverine ugly.
Unfashionable? Yes. But you don't go to jail for using a 12 year-old bowling ball.
Your "friends" aren't all over your bowling ball when you go to the field.
When you buy a bowling ball, it doesn't come with 3 little tennis balls made by 2 different companies.
While it's nice, your bowling ball doesn't require a strike every now and then to keep it in line.
Your ball hits the pins. Your juicy hits the needle.
You don't have to buy 6 juices and endure annoying pointless smalltalk before you put your fingers in your bowling ball.
You demand a refund from Mama and go on a bar-to-bar hunt with murder in your eyes if your juicy splits.
You can't think of any situation that would require you to hit your bowling ball with a golf club.
If your juicy winds up on an Korean bystander's head, he grins and exclaims, "Ah! Beddy saek-she!"
You can rent them both in an alley.
Nobody really cares for long about a juicy being dropped off a building… and it certainly won't inspire any BBQs.
They both are small, dark, round and have three holes.
If they find your crappy bowling ball in a bag in your trunk, you don't get life in prison and an endless stream of bitter rants from angry relatives claiming what a great ball it was.
2:10 pm on October 26th, 2010 32
Disturbing, Chickenhead. And not necessarily in the good way.
3:50 pm on October 26th, 2010 33
That picture is so bad, people look almost green. At first glance, I thought it had something to do with Halloween or Shrek.
5:17 pm on October 26th, 2010 34
Kushibo,
"Disturbing, Chickenhead. And not necessarily in the good way."
Oooooooo… you sure are gonna hate "Top Comparisons Between Your Juicy Girl and a Homeless Sterno-drinking Methhead Pedophile with Weeping Sores and the Shakes."
Teadrinker,
"That picture is so bad, people look almost green."
That's not green. It's yellow.
At first glance, many would blame the photographer's inability to adjust the white balance setting. Some would claim that this was a staged media event and they are actually ALL Korean. Others might say that it just goes to show that skin color is a matter of perception and we area actually all the same.
But the truth is more simple. Because of the shared food, everyone caught hepatitis.
Come for the BBQ, stay for the jaundice.
8:31 pm on October 26th, 2010 35
"The apartment complex management makes no extra money from these higher rents, but they are tasked with providing extra service? "
Do you think only people making money off immigrants offer multilingual services in America? Think again. It's a courtesy that people offer where possible and when needed. There is almost certainly at least one person in the housing office with sufficient English to post bilingual notices.
:Apartments are equivalent to voting ballots? "
An ironic comparison considering that most naturalized citizens were required to pass an English proficiency test whereas apartment residents are not.
In the town where I live now and in a town where I lived before, there are apartment complexes that post notices in English and Spanish. It's not a matter of facilitating lease renewals – rent and safety are the primary considerations for tenants of any language background – it's a matter of courtesy and pragmatics.
10:11 pm on October 26th, 2010 36
I did a tour in Japan after doing a couple of tours in Korea and something that really surprised me was how easy it was to socialize on a casual level with Japanese. My on-base neighbor was a single parent and frequented some local bars. He used to invite Japanese friends over to his place for parties on the weekends and between all the Japanese guests and the American neighbors, we had some really fun parties at his place. There was a bit of a language barrier for some, but it didn't seem to be that much of a problem.
I've never seen nor heard of such a thing happening in Korea. I can't imagine anything like this ever happening in Korea.
10:12 pm on October 26th, 2010 37
@30, ChickenHead, too funny. Of course for something to be funny, it must have a grain of truth to it.
But maybe I'm simply disturbed. In a truth seeking and fun way.
10:18 pm on October 26th, 2010 38
I've been to lots of apartment complexes in the US where there was a high concentration of Koreans and things were written in Korean.
Los Angeles, NYC, Seattle… it's quite normal. And across many large regions of the US, things are written in both English and Spanish.
If you had been able to get accepted at somewhere other than Northwestern Montana Community College – you'd probably know this.
10:18 pm on October 26th, 2010 39
"That’s not green. It’s yellow."
Yes, but I said they looked almost green at first glance. It's the neon makeolli bottles that created that impression.