By Via a reader tip comes further evidence that the loss of overweight Soldiers is much more pressing issue facing the military than the discharge of gay Soldiers:
“An army travels on its stomach,” said Napoleon Bonaparte.
But what happens if the stomach gets too big to drag?
Congress is passionately debating whether open homosexuality is compatible with military service. But even as this particular culture war seems headed to resolution, a new emerging cultural divide is tearing at military efficiency: obesity and overweight.
In 2008, some 634 military personnel were discharged for transgressing “don’t ask, don’t tell.” That same year, 4,555 were discharged for failing to meet military weight standards. [CNN]
Since obese people don’t have a rich well connected political lobby like the gays do few people outside of the military realize how many Soldiers are lost to being overweight. It is hard to get discharged from the military for being gay, but really quite easy if you are overweight. If a Soldier doesn’t show progress on the overweight program for two consecutive months that Soldier can be discharged. I have never had to chapter a Soldier for being gay and have had to chapter more Soldiers then I can remember for being overweight. Half of them I would estimate needed to be discharged while the other half I thought could still be of value to the military because they did their job well and could pass a PT test. I had an NCO in my unit before get chaptered for being overweight and would score over a 280 on the PT test. The NCO was just a big guy that was fit, but he had, had enough of dieting the week of a PT test and drinking no water before it in order to get under the tape test.
I would rather serve with a fit person with a belly then someone like Dan Choi or Terrence Lakin, but it looks like we will all be stuck with the Dan Choi’s of the world before a fit guy with a belly is allowed to serve in the Army.
1:02 pm on December 17th, 2010 1
Ok let me try to understand this now. Don't like fags so they shouldn't serve. And don't like fat pigs (which are like the majority of US population) and they shouldn't serve either. So who is left to serve? Anybody
1:31 pm on December 17th, 2010 2
Agree with ole tanker…and you GI korea. Just a couple of examples to add.
1. E4, always fighting the tape. Gave up and walked across the flight line, got a job with a contractor. The day after he ETSed, he show up in a contractor uniform, doing the same job, for much MUCH more change.
Ten years later, he was still there.
2. E4, kicked out for busting tape in 89. Got called back in for the Gulf War. He was sooo fat they had to have special made uniforms for him. But he was good-enough for war service. Not good enough for peace time duty, but good enough for war.
Then there are the really fat guys with the fat "bull" necks. They prep for a tape by eating a pizza.
I had this dumpy little first sergeant, when I was a PFC, tell me I was fat. My top hung down and his curved over his belly. I always made tape. I always failed weight. Always got chit from so-called leaders who were obviously Physical wrecks.
I was seldom impressed with my "leaders".
2:49 pm on December 17th, 2010 3
Statement A:
"I have never had to chapter a Soldier for being gay and have had to chapter more Soldiers then I can remember for being overweight. Half of them I would estimate needed to be discharged while the other half I thought could still be of value to the military because they did their job well and could pass a PT test."
Statement B:
"I would rather serve with a fit person with a belly then someone like Dan Choi or Terrence Lakin, but it looks like we will all be stuck with the Dan Choi’s of the world before a fit guy with a belly is allowed to serve in the Army."
Statement B is a non-sequitur to Statement A. As, with the Col. Lankin case, if a person's political beliefs become too disruptive and gets in the way of their military obligations, you should still be able to get rid of them.
3:56 pm on December 17th, 2010 4
I don't know if the Army still does the tape test the way they did when I was active duty. How it was done then was that they would tape your neck and tape your belly. There was a ratio between the measurement of the two that determines whether you are within the standard or not. What I would do is when my neck was being measured was to slightly lower my head towards my body which would slightly thicken my neck. When my belly was measured I would slightly suck in my gut. Thus the ratio between the two was lessened slightly. The key word was to do it SLIGHTLY so that it was not noticed by the 1SG or whoever was doing the measurement. If somebody was really fat then this wouldn't work.
7:30 pm on December 17th, 2010 5
I agree,
Many of te best technicaly proficient tankers I served with were always being tape tested, and wrestled with the overweight program. Also some of the Dumbest Worstest Tankers/Scouts/soldiers I worked with were “PT STUDS”‘ Never threatened with being Chaptered. Big Army missed the mark.
We had gay guys,er um… we suspected were gay, but as long as they did their job, and kept to themselves, nobody F6cked with them.
10:01 pm on December 17th, 2010 6
I can understand how inactive Americans can get so frickin' fat, but what I don't get is how supposedly active duty personnel can end up being too obese to serve.
I graduated from college in the 1990s and I weigh probably no more than five pounds more than I did when I graduated.
What are the fitness requirements just in case I ever decided to join up? It sounds like I'm needed.
11:51 pm on December 17th, 2010 7
Kushibo,
Alot of overweight soldiers have no problem with PT standards. They for the most part are guilty of what everyone is; long days, too much fast food and not enough time for PT.
Your PT requirement varies by age and if I had to pick one area that trips up most would be the run. Here is the whole list.
http://www.apft-standards.com/index.html You do 2 minutes of pushups, 2 minutes of situps and a 2 mile run.
12:27 am on December 18th, 2010 8
Hamilton #7, Unless you could MAX any of the events in one minute. I was the Push Up King.
I never did learn to like running.
There seemed to be two types of males. One that was strong, but not fast runners. The other that could glide thru the run, but struggled with Push ups.
I gave up on army PT after E-6. No reason to try any longer. Unless you just wanted to impress others.
Knew a guy that had a bad knee and would do the bicycle event, which meant he could only get a pass 60% for that event. He would also max the push ups for 100% and the come close on the sit ups. But the best he COULD do was 260%, so he slowly stopped trying as well.
But guess who got called to load and unload the vans and conex storage units. Not the guys that scored 300 on their PT test.(and not the females either) Guess who was putting up the tents in the field. Not the guys that scored 300 on the PT test. (and not the females either) Guess who was carrying the 60 cal. Not the guys that scored 300 on the PT test. (and not the females either)
I don't recall if you're still an active duty type GI korea, but if you are, I hope you understand this and not just reading for entertainment.
4:39 am on December 18th, 2010 9
Here is some news for those who haven't heard. The Senate voted against cloture on the Don't Ask Don't Tell repeal bill. In other words they voted to repeal Don't Ask Don't Tell by a vote of 63 to 33. The final vote should be on Sunday but it's a done deal which I'm sure that President Obama will sign in the next few days. The bill says that it will take effect after the service chiefs say that the effects will be minimal. Obviously the pressure will come from the homosexual activist groups & from the administration to do this as quickly as possible. Political Correctness & social engineering have won over the defense of our nation. General Amos, the Marine commandant who was appointed to his post by President Obama by the way, has said that this will result in more American deaths & injuries. Congratulations liberals & The US Congress. The blood is on your hands. The US Military will do its best to faithfully carry out the new law. I e-mailed my son, who is an active duty submariner & told him not to worry about it. I told him to be professional & to treat everyone fairly. If any problems come up I told him to use his chain of command. I also told him in regards to women being put on subs to think with the head on his shoulder, not the one below his belt. I imagine that my son doesn't give a rat's piper about either issue anyway.
6:50 am on December 18th, 2010 10
8 Republican "RINO" senators voted for it.
7:28 am on December 18th, 2010 11
Discrimination, I will reduce
and my income will be profuse.
I'll import some toys,
such as little brown boys,
and sell faggots overpriced juice.
…oh the joys.
11:48 am on December 18th, 2010 12
Another talking point for the Islamic extremists, great. The whole bunch of these lousy politicians and their lousy policies define the high tide mark of the Pax Americana. Prepare for the descent into (further) chaos… Yo, that's the rest of the world too, eh?! Misery will have plenty of company. Spread that around too while you're at it, nutjobs…
1:50 pm on December 18th, 2010 13
Overweight soldiers should not be chaptered unless they just refuse to participate in any fitness program. As long as serious effort is being made then they should be allowed to stay in and finish their enlistment. Remember, the soldiers on the overweight program cannot be promoted. Many of them are doing grunge work and their units need them.
6:43 pm on December 18th, 2010 14
I'm still puzzled why the Army decided to implement this "appearance" regulation. What does it matter what the soldier looks like if he can pass the APFT. I think this regulation disenfranchises the Samoan population.
Not to change the subject, I wonder which category the transgender will be classified under the weight and APFT regs. Will it be their original gender, their new gender, or will they get their own transgender category?
7:04 pm on December 18th, 2010 15
#44
The fitness regulations are separate from the dress and appearance regulations. However, it is ironic that in many cases, people who appear fit are less so than some who appear unfit.
Even though they try to downplay it, the military did and maybe still does discriminated by appearances. Officer were required to submit a current, full length photo in their package when it went up to the promotions board.
11:37 pm on December 18th, 2010 16
When I was still in the Army, I had a soldier who intentionally bulked up so he could get chaptered out for being overweight. He was given separation pay of $4K or $7K, don't exactly remember, but it was an incentive for him. If the separation pay was cut off, I bet the numbers would drop dramatically.
Situations like this cause good troops to lose respect for the Army and not reenlist.
1:39 am on December 19th, 2010 17
Sergeants are "instructed" that they should update their Photos prior to Promotion Boards.
So, for those that don't know: How you LOOK in a PHOTO, matters. "they (DA) only have a few minutes to look at your packet before they must move to the next".
Guess they must have some idea before hand, as to what they want to promote. Photos make it easier.
11:21 am on December 19th, 2010 18
@17,
Actually had a former CSM break it down to me once on how the E7+ promotion boards work. Each career field (Signal / Medical / Armor / Ordnance / ect..) proponent comes up with a secret list of things their looking for for E7/8/9 ranks. Types of assignments and additional duties, special details and past performances. This list is attached to each packet as its going through and each reviewer enters a score, the packet is scored based on the average of the reviewers scores. Any packet that has a 2 or 3 (can't remember) point difference between reviewers is reviewed by the attending board officer, usually an O7 to determine its score. At the end of the time they rank up the scored and there is how the sequence numbers get doled out. The whole process is supposed to be secret and the reviewers are not supposed to discuss the packets, but they do anyway and often deals are cut on who gets a score boost. Knowing someone on that board really helps out your chance at promotion. Minorities are also given a boost although not official its still done.
If you don't know anyone on the board then your photo has a huge impact on your score. They'll briefly glance over your record to see that you've meat all your proponents promotion guidelines, then look at your photo and give you a grade by what they "feel". If you look extremely sharp, professional and like what they want to see, they'll give you a good score, if you don't look like that then you'll get a crappy score. A handful are selected as non-competitive, meaning they have multiple deficiencies with regards to the proponents guidelines.
11:42 am on December 19th, 2010 19
Someotherguy, yea, I heard the same. It was well known in my time.
I look back and just shake my head.