By That is the claims being made by the defenders of the latest leftist war hero:
Escalating the WikiLeaks controversy, Salon‘s Glenn Greenwald reported this week that the U.S. military is holding Bradley Manning, the Army private accused of feeding classified documents to WikiLeaks, in “inhumane” conditions. According to Greenwald, Manning has been a model prisoner since his May arrest, but is being held in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day: Forbidden to exercise, watched around the clock, drugged to prevent his mind from “snapping.” By the standards of many nations, says Greenwald, such “personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions” constitute “torture.” Is that an exaggeration? [The Week]
Of course the US military hasn’t confirmed any of Greenwald’s claims which could just be nothing but lies, but regardless I really don’t care that he is in his cell 23 hours a day.
9:07 pm on December 19th, 2010 1
Oh, great – so he's committed what some might call a heinous crime. That condones torture or differential treatment? I think not. Give him the trial as an American citizen, and go from there.
Furthermore, of course the military would deny it. Duh. I'm trying to remember the last time a government agency told the media the truth about what was going on.
10:33 pm on December 19th, 2010 2
Abuses in The War on Terror have greatly eroded trust in the American government and destroyed any moral high ground.
While leftist reporters are also untrustworthy, there is certainly reasonable doubt that the unconvicted prisoner is being treated correctly.
Unlike Julian, Bradley had a duty and obligation to protect America and its secrets… but it has not yet been proven that he betrayed America.
Until that time, he should be treated correctly. If he is convicted after a fair and honest trial, he should be punished accordingly.
12:50 am on December 20th, 2010 3
Yes, treat him correctly until trial. Give him a fair trial. Then, IF convicted, give him a correct hanging.
12:55 am on December 20th, 2010 4
People tend to forget that you really don't want to piss off the Government. This punk is finding that out BIG TIME.
When I was in the military I saw laxes of security while being deployed. I wasn't in the Army but when we did visit classified areas on Army posts we were appalled at their total disregard for securing extremely sensitive information. They could rationalize EVERYTHING for the sake of mission, this went up to the highest chains of command. Sooo, when I read that this punk was allowed to listen to MP3's with headphones while having an operational CD or DVD burner on his computer..I was not surprised.
The military can't even get the BASICS right, screw it.
2:17 am on December 20th, 2010 5
Give him the trial as an American citizen, and go from there.
He's not a "citizen", he's a soldier and therefore falls under a completely different set of codes – the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under the UCMJ, he could be hung for his actions.
2:41 am on December 20th, 2010 6
Hang him slowly and then shoot him while he hangs. If he is guilty of course…..
3:30 am on December 20th, 2010 7
It is sensory deprivation, therefore it's torture.
4:44 am on December 20th, 2010 8
Pre-trial confinement under UCMJ?
I'm pretty sure there are some regs that need to be followed, and there are specified conditions for pre-trial confinement.
If any of this is true, even a bad military lawyer can get the whole thing thrown out.
5:16 am on December 20th, 2010 9
One of the reasons SOFA agreements were felt to be necessary was from the concern that service members charged with crimes in foreign countries would be treated under conditions acceptable to what was expected for American citizens.
Service members charged with crimes oversea are assigned a liaison officer to chaperon them through the process and ensure their treatment. Since Manning is not in a foreign country, he shouldn't need a liaison to ensure his treatment, should he?
5:41 am on December 20th, 2010 10
Homosexuals have a voice too. When one of their own homosexual friends is in trouble, other homosexuals will consult with yet other homosexuals and all homosexuals will pull what ever they have in their mouths out and the homosexuals will cry and cry so their homosexual voices are heard.
homosexual=7
5:50 am on December 20th, 2010 11
No one would give a rat's ass about this kid if he were not a homosexual. I suspect the majority of his supporters are also homosexual.
6:29 am on December 20th, 2010 12
Wrong topic. Gay obsession?
6:52 am on December 20th, 2010 13
But is he allowed his Lady GaGa?
6:58 am on December 20th, 2010 14
#12
As expected…. I guess you didn't know Manning is homosexual. So are Greenwald, who claims torture and David House who visits Manning at Quantico. Manning released the documents because he disagreed with the Army's homo policy (what's that, you say you didn't know that either.) This whole thing is about homo's not getting their way, crying about it and crying on the public's shoulder and getting the ignorant and those who don't think for themselves to sympathize with them.
You see, in today's world some people see Bradly Manning as a hero for bringing attention to the homosexuals cause and righting what he saw as an injustice and others see Sal Giunta as a hero. (I expect MANY to ask: Who is Sal Giunta?)
8:36 am on December 20th, 2010 15
JoeC My, my our liberal underbelly is showing just a bit.
10:15 am on December 20th, 2010 16
Umm its my understanding that he was in the service when he allegedly committed treason amongst a whole host of other violations of the UCMJ. That means military law takes over and civilian law can go stuff it.
All you liberals who have never served or do not understand UCMJ need to STFU on this. Military law is different and much harsher then anything you've experienced before. For what he is being charged with he'll be looking at life or the death penalty. Considering he was in a war zone when he allegedly committed these crimes the death penalty starts to look likely.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislat…
The big nasty ones they might be able to get him on
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/b… http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a… http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a…
The smaller offenses which they can definitely nail him for
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a… http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a… http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a… http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a…
On top of all that is the fact that this soldier had a security clearance. When your filling out the paperwork for one of those there is a document you sign that states all the federal laws you now fall under if you ever breach your clearance. Their are books worth of laws and regulations that normal civilians do not have to follow unless they have a security clearance. If it is found that he breached his security clearance the NSA can go after him for violating those laws.
This isn't one or the other, he will get hit from both the UCMJ violations and from the NSA violations. Whether or not anyone personally agrees with what he did doesn't matter, what does matter is he allegedly violated the UCMJ and broke several federal laws, most of which are of the serious kind. Unlawful disclosure of classified information is serious, as in go to jail for a long time serious. Willfully disclosing classified information is sedition / espionage (depending) and will put you away for the rest of your life. No amount of crying, protesting, or arguing will get him off the hook, he chose this for himself when he willingly leaked classified information to a third party. A third party who happens to be a foreign national representative of a media agency.
12:47 pm on December 20th, 2010 17
#13 Definitely not on CDRW media in the SCIF!
2:41 am on December 21st, 2010 18
Having worked as a correctional officer in a maximum security facility (as well as some medium and minimum security), let's look at reality.
Contrary to what Teadrinker said, solitary isn't torture and it isn't sensory deprevation. He can see (somewhat) and hear (more than you think) what's going on in the cell block just fine. Like most, he doesn't like the fact he's alone with his thoughts, and maybe some reading material. If you don't want to do the time (and be in that situation), then don't do the crime.
1) He's in solitary to keep someone from shanking his dumb ass. Part of that may be because of his admitted sexual preference, but I'd bet most of it is because he's a traitor and shanking a bonafide traitor ranks right up with shanking a bonafide child molester/ child killer. Inmates have a "Code" and crime-wise, his life isn't worth crap.
2) Being "watched around the clock" could mean they are keeping "suicide watch" type paperwork to CYA. Not a bad idea considering that the media would be all over them if anything happens to him. It could also mean that they are just keeping the normal paperwork that most facilities keep on those in solitary.
He should be thankful he isn't in true suicide watch. Paper gowns, lumpy suicide mattresses and "blankets" that are made so you can't take them apart and make a noose (or anything else) out of them.
3) No one is "forbidden" him to exercise. I guess he thinks you actually need equipment to exercise. THAT shows how stupid (and unimaginative) he is; most figure that out the first week they are in solitary.
4) I'd love to read his psych profile. If they are "drugging" him, it's most likely because he has a DX; I can't think of any (drugs) that are specifically to keep one from "snapping"; even out the mood, but even those aren't 100%. If he doesn't want to take them, then he can A) refuse them or B) learn how to make it look like you have taken it, then flush it.
Someone, please remind me why we don't just turn him loose (simple paperwork mistake) in with the general population for 24 hours. It would save us (as taxpayers) a bunch of money in the long run.
Yes, I had the same attitude when I worked at FSP.
5:14 am on December 21st, 2010 19
Just think, if he'd waited a few months more, the reason for him releasing those documents would have been moot with the repeal of DADT. I don't think he has a prayer of getting off. With the embarassment he caused at the top of the government, anything less than the sudden snapping of his cervical spine via the combination of a noose and gravity will be the best he can hope for. He's a disgrace. I'd be interested to know how Julian Assange now feels about disseminating the stolen information and the possible consequences that may occur to his informant/traitor. But, he's got his own charges to face and probably couldn't care less about that little prick.
5:26 am on December 21st, 2010 20
RE#19… When Manning was first arrested, Assange/WL issued a statement requesting donations stating they would go to Manning for his defense. They received like 60K and only sent 20k per either cryptome or slashdot. It's obvious Assange/WL doesn't care; they got the info.
5:50 am on December 21st, 2010 21
Well, that leaves him with 40K for his own defense
6:21 am on December 21st, 2010 22
Once again it's left to me to ask the real question:
here it comes…
wait for it…
Ok…
The REAL question is: Is he being tortured enough?
There it is. Dead woodchuck.
6:23 am on December 21st, 2010 23
Answers to Questions…
"I’d be interested to know how Julian Assange now feels about disseminating the stolen information…"
Fine… maybe excellent. His whole stated purpose is to disseminate stolen information… mission accomplished… in a BIG way.
Julian Assange may go away in one way or another… but the culture of leaking is not.
There is going to be a major and rapid paradigm shift in how information is treated. The voluntary rejection of privacy through things like Twitter, Facebook and the adoption of smartphones is one example. The increased secretiveness of government and corporations is another… and the desire of those to keep the most secrets about themselves are the ones who try hardest to build databases on everyone else.
This is worth further discussion.
"…and the possible consequences that may occur to his informant/traitor."
Nothing. What is there to feel? Wikileaks was intentionally set up to protect the leaker. It is the leaker's responsibility to protect themselves. Julian has no fault or obligation here.
Bradly Manning did not get caught because of Wikileaks. He got caught because he bragged about his actions on the Internet. It is likely that he would have been caught anyway once the computer logs were studied… as they are being now to build a case as well as look for other leakers.
As for Julian, it has been very interesting to see the media's treatment of him.
The media is under a great deal of pressure to demonize him… but, as a fellow journalist, they dare not do it in a way which will affect them in the future when they get their next big paper-selling scoop.
For this reason, everything now is an attack on his personality or headlines about "raape" charges that have nothing to do with raape… just about 2 or 3 skanks who got irritated that he was sticking it in any groupie that spread her legs.
In reality, that is probably the only news about him. The deal is done. With or without him, the leaks are going to continue dribbling out for quite a while… and Wilileaks, and the growing number of copycat sites, are now bigger than him.
It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out… but, you can bet, no good will come of it.
Likely, this will do for the Internet what 9/11 did for civil rights, intrusive government and misdirected priorities in America.
But that doesn't matter. Like pirate music or bomb-making formulas, the digital cat is out of the bag.
There is already an alternate Internet on-line that can't be shut down short of the type of Draconian laws that limit hand grenade ownership and such.
…so everyone had better start living their lives so that if someone speaks badly of them, nobody will believe it.
6:40 am on December 21st, 2010 24
"The REAL question is: Is he being tortured enough?"
Come on, Leon.
There is no room for torture in a correct society… as "torture creep" always sees it being used with an increasing arbitrariness for an expanded number of suspect reasons.
It is correct to detain, hold a fair trial and then release or punish.
The punishment can be to give the offender a chance of rehabilitation, act as a deterrent for future offense, remove the damaging offender from society, serve as a warning to other potential offenders or a combination.
Torture does not belong… especially to someone not yet convicted of any crime.
To answer your question, if he is being tortured in any way, he is being tortured too much.
6:57 am on December 21st, 2010 25
#24 Now, now CH. I think you know I'm simply asking a question, not condoning the torture. You of all people should understand this. At times, I'm a bit of an advocates' devil.
Along another line, and I certainly have no proof, it's just like asking if PVT Manning is a mother raping, Jew hating pedophile. I'm certainly not saying he's a mother raping, Jew hating pedophile, just asking the question; throwing it out there so to speak.
7:32 am on December 21st, 2010 26
I would be surprised if he is experiencing any type of "torture" other than sitting in a cell he can't voluntarily leave, being served prison food, being told when he can shower, wearing prison clothing, being told by his brothers in orange what they would like to do his azz, and worrying about his "future". His case is too high profile to be tainted by claims of torture. Those claims were undoubtedly made to deflect from the real issues. Heaven forbid if he were forced to disrobe and then make a human pyramid with a bunch of other naked prisoners while wearing a dog collar and being led around with a leash while being forced to masturbate. Wait, he might actually like that. Where is Lynndie England when her country needs her again?
8:51 am on December 21st, 2010 27
Wikipedia says:
'Manning was charged under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) with violations of UCMJ Articles 92 and 134 for "transferring classified data onto his personal computer and adding unauthorized software to a classified computer system," and "communicating, transmitting and delivering national defense information to an unauthorized source".'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning
I don't see anything about treason, which is defined in section 3 of article iii of the constitution:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort"
10:55 am on December 21st, 2010 28
At least we learned how Manning could be dealt with in a state prison.
"Someone, please remind me why we don’t just turn him loose (simple paperwork mistake) in with the general population for 24 hours. It would save us (as taxpayers) a bunch of money in the long run.
Yes, I had the same attitude when I worked at FSP."
FSP = Folsom state prison?
Do they really have the means to make and use shanks in Quantico military prison? According to Wikipedia, they currently hold about 45 inmates and they only have two options for their quarters; an open bay or solitary confinement.
12:29 pm on December 21st, 2010 29
@27,
Art 92 and 134 are general catch-all articles that can be used for multiple purposes. In this case their being used to detain him while they study the logs and evidence to see what else they can charge him with. Read those links I posted above, specifically the elements of each charge. Knowingly collecting and transmitting classified material to an unauthorized person or persons is espionage, doing it to a foreign entity may make it sedition depending. The charge of treason depends on his intent, if it is found that he intended for the information to get into the hands of the enemies of his country (USA) then it definitely fits the elements of treason which is a high crime and is handled by the FBI. First the military will do the UCMJ on him, then the NSA will bring a case about him violating federal laws about disclosing state secrets, then the FBI will bring their case for high crimes / treason / illegal disclosure. It will be years before their finished going through all the legal procedures and all those sentences will be tacked onto each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hanssen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker
Of all the BS that happens in the USA, screwing around with classified information is a sure fire way to go to jail.
2:00 pm on December 21st, 2010 30
Treason is defined in 18 USC Chapter 115. Espionage is defined in 18 USC Chapter 37. Both include the potential for the death penalty in certain cases.
I think Manning played too many video games and thought there might be a reset button on real life…
3:54 pm on December 21st, 2010 31
#28 Joe C.
FSP is Florida State Prison, home of Old Sparky
though now
4:49 pm on December 21st, 2010 32
#28 Joe C.
FSP is Florida State Prison, home of Old Sparky
though now Death Row assholes gets to choose between it and lethal injection. I miss the good old days when Sparky was the only way. *Side note*** I use to work with the original Dennis the Menace. He came back from watching his first execution and was disappointed. I could write a book about some of the stuff he said and did; he's a little out there.
As for your question, "Do they really have the means to make and use shanks in Quantico military prison? "
Yep. Give me 2 minutes (because I'm out of practice), a prison issue razor, a toothbrush and a lighter/major heat source and I can make a cutting tool that will give you a Colombian Necktie.
A piece of metal like from a hanging file folder is the basis for an excellent shank; depending on the size (letter vs legal) you can actually make more than one. Just need to sharpen down the edges (via concrete or if the institution has a metal/woodworking shop) then decide what kind of handle you want. Taped/home made glue over cloth, rope, ect. You want a handle that isn't going to get slippery. My ex caught one of those in the forearm during a "minor incident" in 1999 at FSP. Lucky for him, it went between the radius and ulna, didn't come out the other side (but bruised it like it had come close), and didn't hit an artery or vein.
The side piece off a pair of wire/metal framed glasses would work great as well. Done right, you do it on the earpiece end and keep the plastic earpiece cover. Then you just need to unscrew it and have a pre-made wrap. Wipe it down, put the plastic ear piece back over the sharp end, ditch your homemade handle and it's hidden.
They also like to carve hiding places out of soap bars. You basically cut a lid then hollow out the main portion, then use a bit of the shavings to hide the marks/line. Once they learn to weight it right, it makes a great place to hide a small drug stash and is hard to find in a regular cell search unless you've got officers who know what the heck they are really looking for. (I had a Sgt. that made us learn to make them and the first shank I mentioned, so we would be better prepared at finding the real things.
Basically, when all you have is time to sit around and think, you can come up with easily home-made weapons and you learn how/when to work on them.
Since it is Christmas, want to know how to cook a turkey, ham, or other meat stolen from the prison kitchen, in a bucket? Or How about some excellent buck, not fermented in a toilet (as seen in some stupid movie), but in a bucket (with lid) in a drop down ceiling. The really good stuff is actually more like a fruity vodka (without heat distillation) and has real yeast (not just bread), is made mainly from potatoes and whatever fruit and sugar can be smuggled out. I've seen some very inventive airlocks made from bendy-straws or 2 pieces of tubing using a jar with two holes in the lid.
6:44 pm on December 21st, 2010 33
Lola 32, that's one good reason prisons shouldn't issue razors.
6:49 pm on December 21st, 2010 34
#32
Who needs a college education? Those guys should have been put to work solving the fusion in a bottle problem.
7:49 pm on December 21st, 2010 35
I do a bit of polyester resin casting and I hope to have an injection molder before the summer. I like polymers.
I think I could make a reasonable shank by forming melted plastic… maybe by heating strips of plastic bag and folding it upon itself over and over like a samurai sword… even more wicked if it was reinforced with layered strips of PETE or polycarbonate shavings.
I'm getting a woody just thinking of this.
Bikers have Toys for Tots.
Anybody for a Shanks for Skanks fundraiser?
8:07 pm on December 21st, 2010 36
‘Twas the night before Christmas, and all through solitary,
not an inmate was stirring, except for the fairy.
He sobbed in his cell, and for a good reason.
They don't mind suckin' diick but they crack down on treason.
—
Dare I go on?
10:06 pm on December 21st, 2010 37
Re #33 Glans. That's true, but the alternative isn't soo great. Florida makes all inmates keep their hair cut and be clean shaven (unless you have the equivalent of a medical "profile" that states you can shave with clippers. Even then, the growth must be less than 1/4"). It's too easy to hide contraband in long hair. I remember not long after I retired, they had a major case with a Rastafarian (who filed while still in county lock up because he knew what would happen on Day 1 at RMC/NFRC). He lost the case and got a haircut.
RE#34 Joe C… the problem is that solving cold fusion, proving the existence and finding a use for tachyons, or "solving the fusion in a bottle problem" won't get them released, won't kill whomever is bothering them/pissed them off this week, nor would it be "fun".
#35 chickenhead, the thing is shank-making, in its truest form, is using the materials on hand. I've seen some that were pure artistry, but most are just quick and dirty. Same thing for the zip guns I've seen.
A great example of non-shank ingenuity, (that caused several wings to have to be re-keyed) was when they caught one of the more inventive chaps (nick-named "the Houdini of Florida) with a set of soap teeth that when put into a shaved toothbrush could open any Folgers Adams lock. He had a complete 50 piece set (the locks use 7 teeth of certain sizes some of which can be repeated, thus needing 49 teeth and the shaved down toothbrush handle). That dude could look at a set of keys and then duplicate them. It got so bad, they had to make a cell for him with 3 types of doors and extra pannels welded so he couldn't reach to try to insert any keys.
He was also infamous for once being caught with a deoderant bottle (think of the thin, but wide type) shoved where the sun don't shine. In it was 2 or 3 real handcuff keys, several home-made ones, some jewelry inlcuding at least 1 necklace (not on his property sheet), a hacksaw blade cut into several pieces, and a bunch of cash. Several years earlier, he had been caught with some similar stuff and turned in the Officer who was smuggling in the stuff; when asked why he ratted the Officer out, he replied that he didn't like the price markup. The guy was charging him $12 for a $1.20 item and had left the price tags on some of the stuff.
Long before cameras were installed, the rumor was that he was catching what Bundy was pitching, if you get my drift. That was long before my time; Bundy was executed my Senior year of high school. He also seemed to be a fan of the "Management Meal".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutraloaf
Come to think of it, that might be what Mr. Manning needs; might make him realize he doesn't have it quite so bad.