By Here we go again with another grandma rape case:
South Korea’s police have asked the local court to issue an arrest warrant for a U.S. service member accused of breaking into the home of an elderly Korean couple in Dongducheon, north of Seoul, and assaulting them, officials said Sunday.
The unidentified 20-year-old American soldier stationed in Dongducheon, 70 kilometers north of the capital, is in detention on charges of intruding into the home of a 70-year-old man in the border city Saturday morning and attempting to rape his 64-year-old wife, said the officials at the Dongducheon Police Station.
The U.S. soldier was also accused of attacking the Korean couple with a blunt weapon and robbing the woman of her cell phone after his unsuccessful rape attempt, the officials said, adding that the suspect was under heavy alcohol influence at the time of the crime. [Yonhap]
Readers may remember that a USFK Soldier was sentenced to 4 years in prison in 2007 in the wake of the despicable Grandma Rape Case that year. We will have to see how this plays out, but it is likely the Korean legal system will take jurisdiction of this case and try him in a Korean court. That is probably a good thing for him because as prior incidents have shown us, the US military gives much harsher sentences for rape than a Korean court.
You can also read more on this over at the Marmot’s Hole who has a list of other recent crimes by USFK servicemembers in Dongducheon and the supposed rising GI crime rate. As I have shown in my roll up of the USFK crime rate in 2009 the growth in GI crime in recent years is because of an increase in driving infractions due to USFK’s decision to allow more servicemembers to drive. I have not compiled the 2010 statistics yet to determine any further increase in the crime rate. Once I get time to do this I will better be able to determine if their is in fact a growing GI crime problem.
8:14 am on February 27th, 2011 1
Any US GI that rapes a civilian when posted overseas ought to be dishonorably discharged–at a minimum… It is, in effect, "Misbehavior in the face of the enemy" and in some cases ought to be punished by hanging…
8:23 am on February 27th, 2011 2
setnaffa 1, it seems that this offender didn't actually consummate the rape. I only hope that the Korean invetigaters establish the truth and that the Korean court deals him justice.
9:12 am on February 27th, 2011 3
US soldiers sure like raping little old grandmas. lol.
9:21 am on February 27th, 2011 4
Glans, you are right. I just think that member of our military stationed overseas has a greater responsibility to behave himself (or herself) than a civilian or a GI back home. And there should be corresponding rewards and punishments for that behavior.
Regardless of civilian court outcome, the UCMJ proceedings are a separate thing as recognized repeatedly by SCOTUS, the guy should be given a trial and appropriate military disciple handed out. "Conduct unbecoming…", etc. Probably getting drunk and harming folks off base violates some General's direct order, too.
Don't get me wrong. These young men in uniform deserve a lot better than we give 'em; but that's no excuse for this type of behavior. If he's guilty. And we know some witnesses lie. So that's why he deserves a UCMJ trial and it should not be a rubber stamp of the Korean trial.
But **if he is guilty***, he ought to be hanged outside his battalion HQ with a sign around his neck as an example to others…
9:27 am on February 27th, 2011 5
Tom, we understand why you hate so much. We really do. And we know surgery can't fix the sickness of jealousy and despair you hold onto so tightly.
But putting down your betters via the internet just makes you look ever so much *more* pusillanimous and frankly marks you as one whose family is ashamed of their behavior.
Because if your mommy knew what you were typing, she'd be really, really sad…
Here's a suggestion: find a church nearby and ask the Pastor if he can recommend a good Christian counselor. You have issues that, like cancer or septicemia, will kill you without treatment.
9:29 am on February 27th, 2011 6
Then there was that nine year old girl who got raped by the GI few months back, when he broke into her home, then beat up her grand dad, dragged her into the next room and raped her. He got 3 years. I saw the girl getting interviewed with her face blocked off. She said she was really afraid of American soldiers. Most excellent job! lol. The soldier said he was drunk and blacked out. lol
Why isn't the Blackout Korea web site covering these foreigners who can't control their drinking and getting blacked out and misbehaving stories?
9:53 am on February 27th, 2011 7
Surgically cripple him then throw him in a nursing home. Be sure to put him in a room with someone who can't control their bladder or bowels. I think that will cure him of his geriatricophilism if that's a word.
10:27 am on February 27th, 2011 8
"US soldiers sure like raping little old grandmas. lol."
Oh, eff off. You're begging people to come back with a knee jerk "Yeah, but Koreans sure like to (insert crime commited by a Korean)". Really, you need to get a life.
10:29 am on February 27th, 2011 9
#7,
My mother would say that two well placed bricks struck together repeatedly would solve all his problems…if he's found guilty, of course.
10:35 am on February 27th, 2011 10
Teadrinker #7, Ouch!
10:37 am on February 27th, 2011 11
The other guy who also attacked an old woman was also from Area I. I don't think drunkenness alone explains it. Has anybody checked the water up there?
#6Where was that reported?
10:37 am on February 27th, 2011 12
#10,
She also exclaims upon reading about such crimes, "Hang him by his balls and beat him with a baseball bat"…She's a feminist.
10:40 am on February 27th, 2011 13
Disregard my last question @11.
10:42 am on February 27th, 2011 14
Seriously I really think Koreans should put up a Blackout foreigners in Korea web site. lol… and see what kind of viral reaction that would get from our foreign friends in Korea… lol..
11:15 am on February 27th, 2011 15
IF HE IS GUILT?
Dear setnaffa, things will not be so harsh for the offender.
He won't be hanged.
Just a few years in the Korean prison, in his own singular cell,
and with regular hours of exercising by himself in the jail fitness club,
AND always eating US-typed meals with some steaks in his own cell enjoying privacy, etc.
(There have been some precedents, and some jalers told they really couldn't understand
it is any kind of legal punishments.)
It's because of the human rights of the offender and the absolute needs
of maintaining orders in the prison.
Even the most evil Korean prisoners won't share a cell with him,
for the fear of being murdered by him, AND then the murderer being given
light punishment AGAIN.
It's just too dangerous for them.
Criminals of US citizenship, especially of US military background have some
kind of privileges in Korea.
The victims have the free right to lament their bad luck.
It's the inevitable payback for the geopolitical situation in Korea, I won't say any more about that.
And please free yourself from the precious brethren feelings toward the offender.
A villan is just a villan.
We know NOT all of your slodier brothers(sisters) are bad people,
but I can't understand why you so eagerly defend the scumbag.
He is a housebreaker, victims suffer some injury,
AND Korean police don't push the sexual assault charges without some serious situations.
11:33 am on February 27th, 2011 16
"Seriously I really think Koreans should put up a Blackout foreigners in Korea web site."
"Koreans"? You write that as if you aren't one.
11:47 am on February 27th, 2011 17
#15, Yu, Amen!
The soldier who raped that little girl got three years in the Korean hotel. It's a shame Koreans worship the white people so much, that they need a separate prison to treat these offenders as guests, rather then the common criminals that they are. Let's see what kind of uproar there would be if Americans had separate prisons to give special treatments to foreign criminals on the expense of public tax payers. There would be a public outcry on that. In Korea, nothing! It's as if Koreans think foreign criminals are not criminals at all, but "guests". My god, I just have to throw a brick at the window, it's just too maddening. Koreans are suckers.
12:01 pm on February 27th, 2011 18
This is where the American rapist will be spending the next 2,3 or 4 years.
http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?ne…
Except since these guys are American soldiers, they'll get even better treatment like, more outside visits, and private kitchens so that they can cook their own food, etc etc.
I say stop wasting Korean tax payer money on these scum, and instead just hand them over to the Americans, since Korea can't even prosecute criminals because they're foreigners.
12:42 pm on February 27th, 2011 19
Tom #18, After reading your link I can see why your PO'd. In the US I read an article about a detention facility for illegal aliens where they had all type of amenities before they were deported back to their home countries. It looked like a country club. I was PO'd as well. It wouldn't surprise me a bit once the word gets around about this facility that illegals would come up here just to get arrested so they could spend a few days at the Border Patrol Hilton.
2:33 pm on February 27th, 2011 20
Lock 'em Back Down Until They Get Some "Act Right"!!!!
2:45 pm on February 27th, 2011 21
I AM a Korean tax payer, AND I want this specific offender serve his years in Korean Prison.
Don't worry, my country can afford the expense.
If not, he could do with some less steaks for the prison dinner.
Actually I want all GI offenders of housebreaking charges served in Korean prison, instead of being handed over to the US.
Other crimes might have some excuses, but soldiers housebreaking during peacetime?
Then during the wartime, what the scumbag will do?
Please save the precious brethren sympathy for more reasonable case.
For these kind of scumbabs, just follow the Korean opinion.
It is the best way to maintain all interests of our two nations.
5:07 pm on February 27th, 2011 22
I know who this happened to. He's a good friend. The GI better not get loose around here…
5:52 pm on February 27th, 2011 23
Not to split hairs but the soldier who was recently sentenced to three years is guilty of molestation not rape. I know there is little difference but they aren't the same.
He was also charged with Assault, Kidnapping, and Grand theft auto (or the korean equivilant.)
6:26 pm on February 27th, 2011 24
At least Yu is angry about this, as everyone should be. The poster called "Tom" finds it amusing which is just a sickening reaction.
6:40 pm on February 27th, 2011 25
I am good friends of the couple that were attacked. I have known them for about 20 years. I and my friends have eaten Thanksgiving dinner in their house numerous times. They are both extremely warmhearted and kind. I don't think they have a mean bone in their bodies.
They were both well known by many soldiers and civilians in the Dongducheon area.
All I can say is I hope they catch this creep and crucify him. Either USFK or the ROK. I'm going down later to visit them in the hospital. If anyone wants to relay well wishes let me know.
Al
8:36 pm on February 27th, 2011 26
#18, that's not where USFK criminals go. A special SOFA wing exists at another prison, near Daejon. The prison in Chonan is largely for Chinese offenders, including the young Chinese students who fund their studies in Korea by running phone scams. Caucasians, Filipinos, and other Southeastern Asians all get locked up in a former children's prison, outside of Daejon. The MPs at Camp Humphreys have outfitted the SOFA wing with gym equipment and a library, and they run cooking supplies down from the base, as well. The SOFA doesn't only cover soldiers, so there are also spouses and adult children locked up there, too.
8:40 pm on February 27th, 2011 27
I messed up my last post. It's been a long day, and a long time since I visited the SOFA inmates. They're locked up in the prison north of Chonan. Here's a link to its location on Google. Like I said, it was designed to house child offenders.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&am…
9:10 pm on February 27th, 2011 28
"it was designed to house child offenders."
What a fitting description. I still say Korea should hand them over to the US to be punished. This is ridiculous that they be treated like hotel guests at the expense of Korean tax payer's money.
and archieb, LOL.
10:50 pm on February 27th, 2011 29
#25 Let him know his Brothers are thinking of him. He will know who that refers to.
It caught me by complete surprise.
11:53 pm on February 27th, 2011 30
SEOUL, Feb. 28 (Yonhap) — A U.S. division commander in South Korea on Monday expressed regret over an American soldier's alleged violent assault and attempted rape on an elderly Korean couple last week in Dongducheon, north of Seoul.
"We deeply regret this deplorable incident and offer the family and the Korean people our most heartfelt sympathy," Maj. Gen. Michael Tucker, commander of the U.S. 2nd Infantry Division, said in a statement.
Police said they arrested Saturday the 20-year-old American private, whose identity was not disclosed, on charges of breaking into the couple's home, assaulting them with a blunt object and attempting to rape the 64-year-old woman.
Apparently intoxicated, the 2nd Infantry Division soldier entered the couple's home in the city of Dongducheon, about 70 kilometers north of Seoul, around 9:00 a.m., according to police. The private was caught three hours later by police while wandering around the couple's home.
The woman and her 70-year-old husband have been treated at a hospital, but they were in serious condition, police said.
Dongducheon is home to thousands of American soldiers in the 2nd Infantry Division at camps Casey and Hovey.
In the statement, Tucker said the Saturday crime "is absolutely not in keeping with the high standards we expect of our soldier. We will continue to work in close cooperation with the Korean National Police as they investigate this most unfortunate incident."
"We hope that this incident does not tarnish the years of friendship between our soldiers and the Korean people," Tucker said.
About 28,500 U.S. troops are stationed in South Korea to deter potential aggression from communist North Korea. The two Koreas are still technically in a state of war since the 1950-53 Korean War ended with a cease-fire, not a peace treaty.
5:00 am on February 28th, 2011 31
I just don't understand wanting to rape a 64yo. Sounds like an "added" charge.
Breaking and entering, not bad enough. Beating the guy, yea lets say that. Oh and add "attempted" rape.
Na, Koreans wouldn't do that.
5:44 am on February 28th, 2011 32
Yes, Koreans wouldn't do that because a 20 year old raping a 64 year old is unheard of and sickening. Hm! But it looks like GI's do that.
8:43 am on February 28th, 2011 33
Tom apparently doesn't know his own country's recent history…
8:48 am on February 28th, 2011 34
#32
Wasn't there a story about a guy who got drunk and beat and raped his own mother a while back?
9:11 am on February 28th, 2011 35
#34, no there wasn't.
9:24 am on February 28th, 2011 36
Here's one for you Tom:
A woman and her daughter are raped by a man and his son
The daughter of a rape victim is herself raped by the same man's son a generation later
Sadly, the actual story is even worse than the title suggests, though that would be sufficiently terrible enough.
According to the Korea Times, a woman was sexually assaulted and later conceived a daughter in 1974.
"He first got me drunk and then raped me. It was not easy for me to disclose it to my family and friends back in the 1970s. I hid it from them," the 57-year-old woman identified as "Chang" confessed.
However, as luck would have it, about two years later the rapist died of an auto accident. A fitting end to a bad guy, one might think.
But fate can be cruel. Indeed, decades later when her daughter was 28-years-old and attending a local university majoring in theater arts, she also became a tragic victim of rape. Three times. But even worse, the rapist turned out to be someone related to the victim's father and the man who raped her mother — his son and her half-brother. [identified as "Kim"]
Traumatized, the daughter fell into a mental disorder and became hospitalized for 10 months, the mother said.
When Chang found out what happened about eight months later, she naturally moved to press charges. But getting the charges to stick was a different matter.
"The mother of a mentally-disabled daughter filed a complaint with the prosecution for the fifth time since 2003, Wednesday, accusing her daughter’s half brother of raping her," Korea Times said.
"The 57-year old woman, identified only as Chang, took her 35-year old daughter to the Busan District Prosecutors’ Office and sued a 42-year old man, only identified by his last name Kim, for sexually assaulting her daughter three times between April and June 2003. The seven-year statute of limitations ends on June 23. [...]
"After finding out what happened to her Chang filed a complaint against Kim for sexual assault with the police in Busan in February 2004 and searched for witnesses and evidence to prove Kim’s guilt. She filed complaints with the police and the prosecution three more times over the years, but every time he was cleared of the charges due to a lack of evidence."
"One witness’s testimony was dismissed as unreliable. Investigators cross examined the daughter against Kim without Chang’s presence, yielding favorable results for the accused."
Unfortunately, as the statute of limitations looms Chang is running out of time and the unstable condition of her daughter makes her a poor witness.
Following Tom's logoc, all Koreans are rapists.
9:28 am on February 28th, 2011 37
#35
Son Rapes Kills His Mom
10:00 am on February 28th, 2011 38
Still have not seen the story of 20 year old raping a 60+ year old grandma. Do try again, guys.
10:53 am on February 28th, 2011 39
#36 "he first got me drunk and then raped me." Why was she drinking with him?
Women are such Victims. It isn't her fault! She got drunk. My asss!
5:01 am on March 1st, 2011 40
"Still have not seen the story of 20 year old raping a 60+ year old grandma. Do try again, guys."
Tom is not Korean.
He actually hates Korea. He wants the worst things in Korea to be exposed, discussed and remembered. If this was not the case, he would be quiet about such things as this.
Bringing continued attention to this type of thing, Tom, will make Korea remembered as a country of perverts.
Nobody will consider that Korea has almost 50 million people… and somewhere in every nation of this size, someone has raped a grandmother.
If you really love Korea and hate America, choose your battles, Tom.
Now, you simply add more fuel to the anti-Korea fire and do nothing to injure America.
"On Sunday, early morning, a man in his 20s broke into a house in Seoul and attempted to rape two girls who were below school age. When he was deterred by their grandmother, he raped her instead before fleeing the scene."
http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=12983…
5:52 am on March 1st, 2011 41
Interesting article ChickenHead. So Korea is a country of Perverts! Right Tom.
6:24 am on March 1st, 2011 42
This tread started talking about a GI trying to rape a Korean grandma but ended up accusing Koreans as perverted. Does it change the crime of this soldier or justifies his action ????
This soldier should be tried in USA court under the severity of USA laws or in Korea with the severity of same law.
7:06 am on March 1st, 2011 43
I'd take a US court. At least then they would LOOK at the facts, rather than only the skin.
Oh and not accusing. Documenting the facts as presented. Feel free to show opposing views.
10:14 am on March 1st, 2011 44
#43, agree with Retired GI, I'd take the US courts over Korea's which favors white guys with ridiculously lenient sentencing in a nice prison. The US system eventhough it's still biased toward white guys, the sentencing is lot tougher then Korea's, and the prisons are for real where you can get butt raped.
11:09 am on March 1st, 2011 45
#43
In Brazil rapists become everybody's girlfriend in the prison. Isn't it the same in the USA? If you were to be tried for rape in his place are you sure you want to be tried in the USA?
“Documenting the fact as presented”??? not accusing????, Suuuuureee. I think you want to say something but have no balls to say it. Come on …. Take a deep breath and just say it …..
Most people here are siding with the “poor” GI. I wonder if the victim was an American woman they would still believe he is the victim here???
Poor Koreans, still not listed as humans in most people’s list here …. Hopefully evolution will come to everybody, including the Koreans ….
11:41 am on March 1st, 2011 46
45, Koreans are listed as people. With a racism as deep as the Japanese toward any other race. Deep enough breath for you?
IF most people here are siding with the "poor GI", it is because they know that you are guilty in Korea if you are a GI, unless you have other Koreans OR video evidence on your side. You have no one to blame but yourselves.
Never having been to jail, I don't know — EITHER. But if I were innocent, I would want a USA trial. No WHITE is innocent in korea. But if I was guilty I would want a korean trial. That way I could offer enough "sorry money" to make it all better.
Third world thinking. Gotta love it!
12:06 pm on March 1st, 2011 47
#25,
So the scumbag not only attacked an elderly couple, he attacked one that are known for their hospitality to foreigners. I hope he serves long sentences in both US and Korean prisons.
And, guys, listen to Teadrinker. Don't be fools. Tom's playing you like a cheap violin.
4:05 pm on March 1st, 2011 48
I have been in Korea for 25 years and personally know the victims here. They are two of the nicest people in this screwed up world. I also know some of the friends of the victims. I would like to think that this young, derranged, screwed up, sack of shit soldier of twenty years of age has made his peace with God because I have a feeling that he will not be living on this planet much longer once his identity is made. He attacked the wrong people and shall soon see the error of his ways through a victims eyes. NUF SAID!
5:47 pm on March 1st, 2011 49
Did anyone notice this all went down at 9am?
That is a very, very odd time for this type of thing.
There must be a further angle to this story that the public is not yet aware of.
Anyone want to cover a bet that this soldier has some kind of waver in his background?
7:08 pm on March 1st, 2011 50
#49 ChickenHead
Don't understand your point. Are you inferring a connection between the time and some sort of waver? Is the waver synomymous with some sort of immunity?
On another note, raping the elderly has to be a severe statistical anomoly. Seriously, out of all the potential options for exercising this assault, how does one choose this route?
7:23 pm on March 1st, 2011 51
#49, 50: Elementary my dear Chickenhead. There are a couple bars one can drink in until damn near 09:00 on a weekend. I'm figuring he was drunk as hell and was kicked out of the last bar… On his way back to the gate he got sidetracked. Stumbling around, he somehow found his way into this guys house and things deteriorated from there. Drunks can do amazing things and find themselves in strange situations. It may have been as simple adjushi forgetting to lock his door and this clown stumbling in.
Often the simplest solution is the answer. If it is something else, well, that would be interesting.
8:42 pm on March 1st, 2011 52
Zilchy,
Early morning, 9am, is a very unusual time to be stupid-drunk yet walking around looking for trouble.
Leon got the point and gave a reasonable answer. This was likely a crime of opportunity after an all-nighter. I was unaware that any bars stayed open until that time and Leon's explanation makes sense.
As for the waiver…
Murder, diick smoking, sleeping on railroad tracks, assault and raape of the elderly… these are not things you just decide to do one morning after a night of heavy drinking.
These are actions counter to the core values, conditioning, and behavior patterns of most people.
These actions, while drunk, reflect some aspect of your character while sober… be it carelessness, repressed bi-curiosity, or you are just one sick funk who doesn't give a damn.
Think about it. No matter how drunk you were, did you ever even dream about smoking pole, raaping a grandma, or going into a stranger's house?
So…
I postulate that anyone who could walk/break into someone's house while drunk is missing something in their core programming. Assaulting an old couple requires another level of deep dysfunction. Attempting to raape the elderly wife in front of the husband? That's new level of depravity that contrasts sharply with guys who won't even stick it to the barracks skank passed out in their bed.
This behavior didn't just come about. This guy has a history of being a dirtbag… and there is likely some evidence of that… such as a past criminal record.
So, I think it is not unreasonable to speculate that he had a moral waiver of some sort… especially considering that the year he was likely recruited, something like 1 out of 8 Army recruits required a waiver.
I hope this cleared things up.
8:57 pm on March 1st, 2011 53
I have just learned that the someone called the nail salon owner next door early that same morning and told her to open because he wanted a massage. She doesn't do massages. I just about bet it was the same guy…
Yep CH, he likely came from the Rendevous, Universal or the Red Stairs… There are a few others. With this additional info I suspect he was meandering around outside the gate for a while. Like a drunk Billy in that horrid Family Circus cartoon.
10:54 pm on March 1st, 2011 54
What did you think of the Army's statement. Wonder if there is anything they could have done really.
10:59 pm on March 1st, 2011 55
What did you think of the Army’s statement. Wonder if there is anything they could have done really
Not really. The Army is too big. The law of averages comes into play.
On the other hand, his mum could have thrown herself in front of a bus before he was born, but who knew. It will be interesting to find out the 5 W's on this one. Many people are quite interested…
12:37 am on March 2nd, 2011 56
I've known individuals that drank too much, stayed out all night, stumbled back to the barracks. I have been one of those. Most of us were happy to wobble back home. Taking joy in the ability to put one foot in front of the other.
Something doesn't smell right about this story.
2:39 am on March 2nd, 2011 57
The thing that doesn't smell right about this story is the crime itself. It stinks. Breaking into a house, abusing an elederly man and then attempting to rape his wife? Sick, period. Chickenhead said it all. Someone who does this type of thing isn't wired right.
If alcohol released his demon, well then he's a demon to begin with. If someone who disdains homosexual behavior when sober lets his buddy do a little rump-romping when drunk, well the bottle unleashed his gay demon. Some people have violent demons realeased. We've all seen them.
The first thing affected by alcohol is the part of the brain that governs judgment and inhibitions. Most of us don't have to exercise judgment and inhibition about committing heinous acts because those thoughts aren't even there. Someone who gets that drunk and then commits an act like that was effed up at the core level to begin with.
I've wobbled back to camp putting one foot in front of the other many times. But never wrestling with the idea of "hmmm, do I have time to rape someone?" If everything is true, he'll just be another one of those guys that the prisons were built for. Get drunk, unleash his particular demon(s), and pay the price for it.
5:30 am on March 2nd, 2011 58
Well that settles it then. He is guilty. According to witness statements.
(also why I never trust anyone completely, until we have tied one on together)
Lock him up.
I knew a guy that stole a bike (as in motor) while drunk. I stopped a guy from beating on a Koreans car while drunk (him not me). I was beaten unconscious on the day room couch once, by a drunk. I reported a drunk GI for ripping off a car mirror.
I have also been found "not at fault" for a traffic accident by the MPs but had the KNPs charge me. Written reprimand that I didn't deserve. Thanks KNPs!
So I hate violent drunks (still see "floaters" in one eye on bright days).
But I'm not sure I trust reports from the Korean population or KNPs. Change that, I Don't trust them.
7:18 am on March 2nd, 2011 59
#58 et al: Once again… I do not trust many Koreans either but there are good ones. This person is well known for upward of 30+ years at Camp Casey. I assure you, he and his wife are NOT your average Koreans, far from it. I'd like to tell you more but he has requested privacy in the matter (I think we all would) but it will of course get out soon enough. Knowing him, I doubt this will change his outlook on Americans in general. His son might be less inclined to like Americans from now, but I don't know, as I do not know his son all that well.
There were some other incidents that weekend. Was the moon full?
On the GI side we do not know what was going on – but the victims are just that, victims.
I figure, if past cases are any indication, this ass will get somewhere in the neighborhood of a 5-12 year sentence in Korean jail. Afterward of course he'll go home. People have a long memory for things like this. By then, everyone will know his name and where he is from.
9:09 am on March 2nd, 2011 60
#48, Scott are you still there in the ROK? Long time no see brother! Camp Casey 87, Camp Stanley 88, Camp Mobile 92.
They need to do the same thing in the Korean prison that they should do in the US. Let him out amongst the general prison population and let a little bad karma come his way.
12:04 pm on March 2nd, 2011 61
* Someone's crime is just his(her) own fault, not of his colleagues, nor of his family.
Any kind of harsh comments toward his colleagues or his family are just ineffective.
His mother is not responsile for this miserable crime.
And GIs in Korea in all aren't responsible for this.
I just feel sorry for this fuss.
Why dose the decision of the Korean police to file for an arrest warrant make a big issue?
It's natural and inevitable, not arguable.
* And my answers to some questions from here.
In Korea, a sexual assault charge is an offense subject to complaint.
Please don't ask me why. I am not for this concept, just supposing it is based on old ideas about female chastity.
So without the victims's extrodinarily strong will to punish the offender, a sexual assault charge never ever surface.
You see, the police can't push the charges independently.
And my warning for some innocent souls.
No safe hours nor zones nor ages from sexual assaults, just like any other countries.
In early 2007, a tragedic GI-involved sexual assault happened to a 67-year old female janitor.
(Yeah, yeah, there have been overwhelmingly much cases by Korean people to Korean People. I just want to show you some similar examples.)
She was on her way to work at 06:00 that morning, then was brutally beaten and sexually assaulted & sodomized by a GI initialled G.R. in a parking lot in the middle of a residential area.
It was a quite calm and respectable district. There was the house of a former president of Korea nearby.
Actually, the offender was arrested red handed by a policeman who was guarding the house.
Then why? Why such a horrid crime in such an reapectable area at such an early hour?
It was within walking distance to Hong Dae district, the famous all-night club zone. Korea is such a small country.
That is the sole cause of her, the poor and frank, old janitor's misfortune.
She was old, so she was physically weak, so she made an easy target.
Then the commander of the Eighth U.S. Army officially apologised to the victim in written form.
(I personally felt sorry for the commander, too. It's not an easy job.)
Victim and her family declined any kind of meeting with personnels from the US army.
After that US army in Korea has been known to introduce "the buddy-system"(?) which forbid GIs to act alone while they are out.
In that case, the offender was tried at the Korean court, and sentenced to 4 years.
That was in 2007, so I guess by now he was released and went back to the States.
12:29 pm on March 2nd, 2011 62
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I was curious about what happens to these individuals when they are returned to the States. There is a big deal about sex offender registrations, but as far as I can tell that system is mostly based on states criminal laws. While there are federal laws that require states to have sex offender registries and which are incorporated into a national database, there is very little as far as a federal process for registering someone as a sex offender. The only exceptions I can think of are for Americans arrested overseas and extradited back for pedaphilia sex tourism.
So when these GI's are returned to the States, is there a process for having them registered as sex offenders?
2:40 pm on March 2nd, 2011 63
This is what happens when you befriend the GI's. They beat you up, rape you, then blame it on you because they "can't trust Koreans".
The couple must be lieing because they are Koreans. The GI is innocent because he is American.
3:08 pm on March 2nd, 2011 64
Because of people like you Tommy. There are numerious times when the GI is blamed for this or that by Koreans in general. No one to blame but yourself and those, oh so many Koreans that think as you do.
The MP in the subway with his korean wife.
The three guys on the subway after the two girls were killed accidently. One was kidnaped.
The assaults on military base after the accident.
The anti-American protest in 2002.
Driving accidents in korea are always the GIs fault. Always!
In a most basic manner it is Korea's fault that GIs don't trust Koreans or witness statements made by koreans.
I forgot the Major that was stabbed in Itaewon around 1500 hours. He died.
The Public relations officer that was stabbed in the subway. He lived.
There are more I'm sure but these are off the cuff from memory.
Lets not forget how Korean men act when you are walking with your Korean woman friend. That can get ugly! How do you think I learned to say "shi-polly-ma, Kai socky ah. Chodi-ka and my personel favorite: Con-a cho-ki.
So based on the way Koreans act, I have a STRONG tendency to think Koreans lie whenever it involves a GI.
4:02 pm on March 2nd, 2011 65
SOFA(Status of Forces Agreement in Korea) says that the Korean police can file for an arrest warrant for GI criminals only if the offenders of felonies were caught red handed.
So the chances are quite low. (Felonies & on the ground?)
The first case was the tragic assault which I told before in #61.
: the case of army Pvt. Geronimo Ramirez of the Eighth U.S. Army in 2007.
He was then 23 years old, (so now 27?) and he was arrested for beating, raping, and sodomising of a 67-year old janitor in a small parking lot in early morning.
He denied all charges, saying just "negative" in spite of the fact that he was caught on the ground by a Korean policeman who noticed victim's scream.
His attorneys told that he had no criminal records (=so not a bad guy, a plus for him), and was under the influence during the crime (another plus for him).
But the judge said that absolute denying without heartfelt apologies was too bad for a light sentence.
So he was sentenced to 4 years in 2007, so is maybe in the States now.
He might use differnet name now, or lie about his former career because the crime made headlines in Korean media and the Stars & Stripes.
So most of GIs know better than I about the whole story.
Although the S&S article focus on the needs of professional lawyers and "lying" Korean witnesses and "Culture & lanuage" barriers,
the facts about the specific crime were there.
http://www.stripes.com/news/lawyer-americans-can-…
Anyway, Geronimo Ramirez was cruel and bold in choosing the target and the place, just like the anonymous offender of this case.
If not the fact that the former president of Korea lived nearby, so the Korean police staked out around the clock, Geronimo Ramirez was never caught or was just handed over to the US army.
The same can be told about this case, because the anonymous offender of this case was said to be caught lingering the ground after the crime. (maybe another hit?)
5:15 pm on March 2nd, 2011 66
Sorry for your troubles, Retired GI, although it can hardly make any meaning for you.
We korean are of simple background(one race, one language etc.) lacking in understanding diversities in spite of over 100 thousands (and rapidly growing) mixed-blood children from foreign mothers, and most of GIs are not even Asian, only speaking English (occasionally Spanish).
Two bodies of strong egos staying together because of North Korea.
(and in the future, staying together because of China? Hallelujah.)
So things might be complicated when these two bodies collide.
You know, average Korean people just feel like you (in case of traffic accident, GIs have some previleges over Korean, etc.)
Anyway, in this case, this dammed case, the offender will be tried at the Korean court, and will be back to your country just a few years later.
There hasn't been any sigh of disagreement from the US army.
He will not be killed, nor sodomised in the Korean prison, and we won't starve him.
There is the precedent of Geronimo Ramirez.
A few years later, this anonympus offender will be out of our hands, and will be your problem, just like Ramirez.
I don't think that your antipathy to Korean will be linked directly with the sympathy to this offender, because he might have new home around you.
In Korean legal system, informations about most offenders are kept secret.
I think it's one of many problems of my country.
Why so much consideration for the offenders, while the victims must do for themselves.
People have rights to know at least his name and face.
Even in that Ramirez case, his face wasn't disclosed. Shame.
6:03 pm on March 2nd, 2011 67
#52 ChickenHead
Got it! So the waiver is not an actual label designated by the U.S. Army to tag those GI's with serious mental deficiencies, but your designation for someone who is missing 51 cards.
Don't they screen candidates prior to accepting young men into the military? Some sort of psychological evaluation? If so, maybe the testing needs to be seriously revamped!
11:29 pm on March 2nd, 2011 68
@#66 – I recommend you read my prior posting on the US-ROK SOFA. You may also want to read this as well.
The Korean authorities can arrest and try any US servicemember accused of a crime if the crime was committed off duty. Let's say the criminal GI in this recent case was able to get back on to Camp Casey before being arrested. The Korean authorities can still have him turned over into their custody. The Korean court system has been trying and imprisoning GI's since the 1960's to include handing out death sentences.
Korea has a very fair SOFA with the US especially when compared to the SOFA's the ROK military has signed with other countries where they do not hand over their Soldiers to local authorities and instead try them back in Korea. ROK military personnel do not even stand trial in civilian courts for crimes committed in Korea and yet GI's do.
As far as receiving a fair trial in Korea I highly recommend you read this posting. Here is some more recommended reading about GI's tried in Korean courts.
3:23 am on March 3rd, 2011 69
#68
Sorry, I read your links, but can't understand your point.
You defend so arduously hotblooded 20-something soldiers.
Yeah, anyway they are pillars of the army, I appreciate their values.
And this is a clean housebreaking case (with some added violences), not mob cases.
Now I try to guess your initial aim of this post.
Anyway, this offender must stand at the Korean court, even if his nerves are too delicate to face so many Korean faces.
He shouldn't have hurt an old couple (of all people, OMG) at their own home.
Sorry, bluntly speaking, we just can't believe that his actual jail term for hurting non-US citizens would be longer if he will be turned over to the US army.
Maybe you could kindly show some statistics about it the next time. (for example, certain ex-GIs ACTUALLY spent how many years for harming non-US citizens, in the US military prisons before being released?)
And I hope the Korean police will at least use the existing SOFA 100% from now.
I wouldn't say any more about SOFA. It would be political, and I don't want to do that now with this case.
I just hope that the Korean police will release the name & the facial photo of the offender.
Unlike the Geronimo Ramirez case, we don't know even his name.
He is a 20 year old Pvt. of the 2nd Infantry Division, the initial of his name is L. That's all.
Why all this secret? It's just disgusting next to the crime itself.
I just want to blame the offender, not the 2nd Infantry Division in all.
3:41 am on March 3rd, 2011 70
@69 – I am not defending criminals, I am pointing out that US Soldiers have been handed over to Korean courts for decades. Your prior comment made it seem that the fact that this US soldier will be tried in a Korean court is unusual when it is not unusual. It happens every month and I publish the results of the prosecutions right here on the ROK Drop.
Also the Korean media regularly hides the names of suspected criminals. There is nothing odd about hiding this perpetrators name now. It will eventually be released.
As far as harsher sentences in a US Court Martial look no further than in 2002 when the family of a KATUSA soldier that was raped by a US soldier requested that the US military handle the case instead of the ROK justice system because they knew the criminal would receive a harsher sentence. The criminal was sentenced to 30 years in jail. When has a Korean rapist been sentenced to 30 years in jail for his first rape?
http://rokdrop.com/2007/01/26/rok-army-soldier-se…
8:14 am on March 3rd, 2011 71
Check and mate GI Korea #70. Check and Mate!
Yu's statement that he can not believe that a GI would serve a more severe sentence under american law and courts, as opposed to a Korean law and court, SPEAKS of the National Racism that resides in the Korean Mind.
I thank Yu for exposing that state of mind.
12:33 pm on March 3rd, 2011 72
Guys, I am trying my best not to be mistaken for being political, so in turn, please could you stop talking this whole case is some kind of games?
I don't think that someone is suitable to be called a racist because of doubting something.
As the proof, I didn't call some of you as racists because they doubt the Korean court.
Anyway, thank you for the example of a male-rape case of KATUSA.
But I wanted cases of Korean CIVILIAN victims.
In that case, the victim was a soldier (Korean or not), working for the US army.
So he was somewhat equal to the offender.
At least, Korean put great belief in the equalities & democracy within the US army. (More than the Korean army)
I guess the victim in that case, as a soldier, had to choose between the two military courts, not same as this case.
(I am not saying the Korean civil court is on the side of the vicitms. The Korean laws are mostly cold to victims' pain in general.)
What if the victims are just Korean civilians living around the US army?
Not tremendously many cases- because most of GIs are good professionals doing their jobs, just like Korean citizens, not potential criminals.
Again bluntly speaking, in the US army prisons, how long are the ACTUAL jail terms of Ex-GI murderers or rapists who harmed non-US civilians?
Except cases of felonies caught red handed, according to the SOFA, Korean police may take ex-GI offenders AFTER the jail term is decided, not before.
In the gruesome Kenneth Markle case in 1993, it took more than 2 years for him to be handed over to Korean authorities.
Sometimes, the Korean police or Korean DAs have been notorious for not even filing for warrants or not asking the US ARMY to hand over the offenders.
I don't want to guess why. Whatever the unspoken causes are, they were just cowards neglecting their duties to victims.
Things are not so different now.
If the victim in this case were a single waitress, not a respectable aged lady living with her husband, the Korean police didn't act so fast to the duty.
And it seems that the victims, the aged couple, want the offender to be investigated by the Korean police from the start, not by US MP, to satnd at the Korean Court, not because they have anti-US feelings.
If there isn't some serious problem in the judge's morality or common senses, the anonymous offender will spend a few years in the Korean prison, and then will be among you in the States.
I don't think even OJ's attorneys wouldn't ask any more.
1:23 pm on March 3rd, 2011 73
#72
You are probably requesting examples that don't exist because of the very nature of the situation. Whenever an American service member commits a violent offense against a foreign national in their country that country's justice system will almost always request custody.
2:00 pm on March 3rd, 2011 74
I'm not even sure what Yu is arguing?
If a US soldier commits a crime against a Korean national, the Korean authorities have the choice of trying him or letting the US military handle the case. For a major crime like this it is almost always going to be tried in a Korean court. Also the US military has handed over Soldiers for confinement before a trial such as with this rapist two years ago who served 71 days in jail before being convicted and sentenced:
http://rokdrop.com/2009/01/19/usfk-sergeant-sente…
As far as soldiers jailed in a US Disciplinary Barracks, having toured this facility it is no country club:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Discip…
I have also spent plenty of time at the Cheonan Prison where US Soldiers are held at in Korea, that is a country club compared to the USDB.
As far as light sentencing for sex offenders in Korea it is quite well known. The soldier rapist in the above link actually could have received more time for stealing a cell phone than raping the woman:
http://rokdrop.com/2008/12/04/more-jail-time-for-…
Here is yet another example of the incredibly outrageous sentencing for rape in Korea:
http://rokdrop.com/2008/11/28/court-rules-that-fa…
You may also want to read the story on the above link about the 19 year US female Soldier that was raped by a taxi driver after just arriving in country and the guy was acquitted by the Korean court because there wasn't enough evidence of violence.
2:06 pm on March 3rd, 2011 75
So it is about being Equal—-
http://www.kktv.com/military/headlines/Closings_A…
Hope the link works, but I doubt this will satisfy you Either. As the victim is not korean, you will revert back to a racial issue.
But she was a civilian.
So tell me about the SOFA Korea has with other countries. Anybody.
2:15 pm on March 7th, 2011 76
Let us take a trip back in time: A South Korean judge on Friday sentenced a 23 years old 2ID U.S. soldier to four years in prison for raping, sodomizing, and beating a 66-year-old South Korean woman on Jan. 14, 2007. (That means he just got out so I guess some "PSYCHO" that he had to take his place.) As dozens of South Korean media left the courtroom Friday, two women and a man stood in the lobby holding protest signs. One, translated from Korean, stated: “How can you handle Korean security if you can’t handle what happens below your belt.”
It was true back then and it is true today!
QUIT RAPING OLD LADIES YOU SICK PUCKS!!!
12:00 pm on March 19th, 2011 77
Wow!!!
Now that we have a name, Pvt. Lloyd Daniel, this incident has become a whole lot more troubling.
While the February USFK crimes list has not been published here yet, this list shows "In Uijeongbu District Court on 16 February 2011, PVT Lloyd A. Daniel, C Troop, 4/7th Cavalry, USAG-Casey, was convicted of intrusion upon human habitation. His adjudged sentence was a 500,000 Won fine."
This latest Stars and Stripes article says "The military is not conducting a separate investigation into the incident, according to 2nd Infantry Division spokesman Lt. Col. Joseph Scrocca." But if this is the same Lloyd Daniel in both incidents, someone from USFK should explain why this guy was allowed to re-offend on February 26, 10 days after being convicted of a similar incident.
12:21 pm on March 19th, 2011 78
Questions for anyone familiar with the standard policy now.
In the first incident, the guy was likely intoxicated too. He was also underage. What is the standard handling for such a person? Should he have been under restriction? Should have been under alcohol monitoring?
12:31 pm on March 22nd, 2011 79
>>#78
1. the issue ;
There was no report about Ramirez's blood alcohol content, nor the reason of monitoring in the first place.
Maybe his denying or the incompotence of the Korean police.
It was reported that Geronimo Ramirez stopped at 5 clubs before the assault.
At the first club, he erdered 1 Rum, 1 lemon juice, 1 milk and 1 cocktail,
at the second club, 1 beer,
at the third club, 1 tequila, 1 cocktail and 1 iced tea,
at the fourth club, 1 cocktail and 1 beer,
at the fifth club, 1 beer.
It was from 10 pm ~ 2 am, and roughly 8 orders of alcohol, quite much.
We don't know how much he drank.
We all know, in many cases drink orders are means to talk to girls.
Anyway, at 6 am, Geronimo Ramirez selected a certain target & place,
he could sense the surrounding environment.
The first time a policeman came to the place after hearing the victim's scream, he saw nothing because Ramirez hid with the victim, temporarily stopping the rape.
After the policeman went back to his surceillance post, Ramirez resumed the rape.
So the policeman heard again the scream and this time more silently approached the place to find Ramirez.
Then Ramirez ran away, and the policeman called for backup.
He fled 200 meters away from the policemen, which the court described as "what a sober man would do."
Ramirez kept saying "Negative", claiming to have no memory of the crime,
and he would appologize to the vitim "if it's real".
2. the issue ;
By Korean criminal law, means under .
I don't know anything about the US Army recruiting systems.
>> #77
thanks for the info.
I searched Korean news sites, but not an article of it!
Even if all the talks about the Japan nuke leaks, it's too much.
Korean media companies are just too lazy.