By That is what is being alleged in this Yonhap News article:
When Korean-Australian Heej Kim moved to South Korea from Sydney in January, he thought that getting an English teaching position in Seoul would be easy.
Kim, who immigrated with his parents to Australia when he was young, holds Australian citizenship and is fluent in both English and Korean. But over the four months he has been in Korea, he says he’s applied for close to 100 teaching positions and hasn’t yet been hired.
“I think most schools and private institutions are looking for Caucasian, non-Korean-speaking teachers,” Kim said.
Look around on popular English teacher job Web sites like Dave’s ESL Cafe or Craigslist, and you’ll see that many Korean English teaching recruiters and institutes specifically advertise for “native speakers” or for foreign teachers with an E2 or F2 visa status, which are references to teachers who are of non-Korean ethnicity.
Some ads even directly state that their jobs are not for F4 visa holders or “not for gyopos,” ethnic Koreans who hold overseas citizenship.
An informal poll on Waygook.org, an online English teacher forum, reveals that around 60 percent of the respondents agree that Korean schools prefer their English teachers to be Caucasian. [Yonhap News]
You can read more about this issue at the link.
8:24 pm on April 18th, 2011 1
This is the norm and has been for years. Koreans who pay big bucks for English Schooling want to be taught by Native speakers and they perceive Gyopos as something else, an inferior product. The schools want to be able to rape…um… charge the kids parents more so they need the showpiece waeguk.
8:26 pm on April 18th, 2011 2
Also most Gyopos are arrogant A-holes with an extremely enlarged sense of self-worth and aren't worth the trouble. Just sayin.
8:38 pm on April 18th, 2011 3
"The schools want to be able to rape…um… charge the kids parents more so they need the showpiece waeguk."
Agreed, but what about the public system? Most would agree, the Koreans see white, North American instructors as the cream of the crop. White skin and "American English" are the most valued.
Recently, "females only" has also been a prerequisite for employment. Western females, who are white and N.A., respect Korean society.
9:19 pm on April 18th, 2011 4
Zilchy, having been a mercenary on the employer's end of the hiring process, I think the overriding concern that leads to preference for hiring females is often (but not always) that they are looking for gender balance.
Simply put, they want a 50-50 male/female ratio, or as close as they can get. For various reasons (some of which we don't speak about, like adult students fantasizing about their teacher) the female students want a nice-looking male teacher and the male students want a nice-looking female teacher.
But of course, in most instances, there are far more males in the supply of prospective workers than females, so the parity seekers are usually scrambling for females, not males.
9:45 pm on April 18th, 2011 5
Speaking of rape and English teaching females, let's see what happens when you decide to drink alone at a bar and go to a yeokwon drunk with a couple of fine college students:
http://cleverturtles.com/content/english-teacher-…
9:48 pm on April 18th, 2011 6
Old news. Highest preference is blonde females, even if their English sucks.
Gyopos that came from lower class before immigrating are typically the ones that think they are better then other Koreans.
9:56 pm on April 18th, 2011 7
It's really too bad about this Korean attitude. Even my own members of family don't believe me when I say I speak English perfectly without a trace of an accent. They say "aaaayyyy… no way, how can that be?" How can a Korean speak perfect English? That cannot happen. It's really too bad because it's the Gyopos who are more valuable then these pre-madonna white guys who think the world owes them a life of luxury. Gyopos are more valuable because more often then not, they are bi-lingual and bi-cultural – therefore far more able to understand the culture and be able to adjust, than the white guys who demand Koreans to adjust to them, rather they adjusting to Korea. They can't hack Korea so either they end up leaving after two weeks or they become bitter expats that stay for years and become zombies. The arrogant attitude of these people is just amazingly brazen. Simply put, they are garbage. Why import garbage to teach your children when you have better options?
10:02 pm on April 18th, 2011 8
blonde AND big boobs, preferably………….
10:58 pm on April 18th, 2011 9
Tonight, one of my students today told me a female English teacher in Anyang was raped by 4 korean men and the men were caught?
10:59 pm on April 18th, 2011 10
The student said it was an American female English teacher.
11:03 pm on April 18th, 2011 11
My computer was down due to pirated microsoft software at my workplace so my student couldn't use my computer to search for the article. Can anyone find it who can search Daum etc…
12:16 am on April 19th, 2011 12
Screw 'em if they can't get a job.
If they have some special skills like test prep, they can earn 10 times what the average E2 whitey makes.
If they don't have the skills or the inclination to develop special teaching skills, they should just stay in L.A.
Korea wants NETs. My experience has been that gyopos are largely trouble makers with some weird sense of entitlement.
1:08 am on April 19th, 2011 13
Women are most definately wanted especially blonde and big tits. These women usually don't stay around very long because they get tired of 'how muchee?' by creepy korean men. Enough said about that.
I'd also like to state that in my experience korean women don't like western women very much either in the work setting, especially the director9woman)-worker(woman) relationship. Foreign men are much easier to work with so i've been told by Korean women at all levels. I think this is because foreign women can't pull the shit here they can back home and get everyone fired. I've seen this happen, a woman file suit and here come the butch lesbians to the rescue….oh I'm sorry women in comfortable shoes.( whatever…)
Also, I've never had good experiences with gyopos either. They start alot of shit and have chips on their shoulders. I don't know if its because they are looked on as an immigrants back home and korean who left the motherland here. Either way they are misfits.
1:47 am on April 19th, 2011 14
Funniest person I ever saw in Korea was a gyopo with a grill
3:19 am on April 19th, 2011 15
Chae.il kyopos are really cool. Chae.mi kyopos will call you on BS.
3:24 am on April 19th, 2011 16
Chosunjok – not too much experience with them but middle aged ones I did met were annoying and shady. North Korean Defectors – they make the best jokes out of all the groups. I don't know why but talbukja I met liked making jokes alot.
Well, these are poorly founded generalizations based on my experience.
3:26 am on April 19th, 2011 17
#7: Seriously Tom, it makes you want to slap people for being that smart and that ignorant at the same time.
4:25 am on April 19th, 2011 18
Is it my imagination or do urban-American gyopos and avoiding outstanding warrants back in the States go together like Korean-American girls and fat?
5:46 am on April 19th, 2011 19
There is a correlation; but you seem to have been hanging out in the wrong circles…
6:10 am on April 19th, 2011 20
I'm thinking Al is wearing one of Tom's socks as he types…
8:17 am on April 19th, 2011 21
Gyopos have all the advantages of speaking both Korean and English, being on visas that don't tie them to schools, and having family they can turn to in an emergency. So, why do they allow themselves to continue to be descriminated against in hiring by Korean schools and hagwons? That's a good question. I've seen many Gyopos cheated by hagwons and not one would pursue the matter with Labor or in court. Too many times they simply won't speak up for themselves or take any legal action. Gyopos as a group could take legal action and win, frankly because they have the time to stay in Korea and wait for the court decisions that seem to take forever. Courage is in short supply.
Plus, instead of putting the blame where it belongs- on the schools or parents- many Gyopos blame white foreigners for the shady hiring and business practices of the Korean school owners. Yeah, it ridiculous, but that's what they do instead of taking legal action.
8:24 am on April 19th, 2011 22
A recruiter friend of mine once told me that many Gyopos also have fake diplomas and that almost every recruiter has been burned trying to find a job for a Gyopo who had lied about their education on their resume. Maybe a recruiter could fill in some of the blanks on that rumor out there. Anyone?
10:54 am on April 19th, 2011 23
A friend of mine who has a 11 year old daughter in one of the schools complained that the school once had a white male teacher who was caught molesting children on CCTV. He was arrested by the police, but he was released, and was waiting for trial. It was found that he was teaching in Korea illegally because his diploma was a fake bought from Thailand. Instead of waiting for the trial, he fled the country and was never heard from again. That's what they do, if the police don't keep them in jail – they flee. Maybe anyone who have dealt with white teachers molesting Korean teachers can tell me what it's like dealing with these monsters.
10:55 am on April 19th, 2011 24
Sorry, I meant molesting Korean kids (not teachers).
11:11 am on April 19th, 2011 25
No socks Naffa, I'm my own entity. Is anything I said not true?
Every faction of the EFL industry has cheats with fake degrees or padded resumes. That's why places ask for work records these days. We hired a person at my university and canned her within a week due to the fact that she did not have three years at the college she listed by only 2. She counted being hired in December for march as a year. nice try honey, I guess your boobs weren't big enough after all.
12:56 pm on April 19th, 2011 26
I found it, 4 Korean University students raped an American female teacher…
http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=car_new&…
I'm sure this WON'T make the headlines anywhere in mainstream Korean media.
1:15 pm on April 19th, 2011 27
Oh yeah, fake diplomas and fake ID are on Khaosan road in Bangkok.
That's easy to get and really cheap. Besides fake diplomas though, I've got to say that Thai people come up with a lot of really creative products to sell to tourists. There's a couple of Korean tourist agencies around Khaosan road, so I actually went on some package tours with Koreans my age when I was there, and we had a blast.
Tom: Did you do any translations yet?
2:10 pm on April 19th, 2011 28
"I found it, 4 Korean University students raped an American female teacher…
http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=car_new&…
After looking at the picture, it appears that is just their forte.
2:11 pm on April 19th, 2011 29
FOUR KOREAN MALE UNIVERSITY STUDENTS RAPE AMERICAN ENGLISH TEACHER
A huge picture of a car is at the top of the page with a short explanation at the bottom of the page. Will it be reported in mainstream Korean media? If 4 Americans raped a Korean woman this would be FRONT PAGE news everywhere.
http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=car_new&…
경찰에 따르면 이들은 지난 12일 밤 0시 5분쯤 안양시 만안구 안양1동 한 술집에서 미국 출신 영어학원 원어민 여교사 C(24)씨와 함께 술을 마신 후, 술에 취한 이 여성을 여관으로 데려가 차례로 성폭행하고 현금·휴대폰 등 80만원 상당의 금품을 훔친 혐의를 받고 있다.
이들은 일행들과 함께 술을 마시던 C씨가 혼자 남게 되자, C씨에게 다가가 술을 함께 마셨다. C씨가 몸을 가눌 수 없을 정도로 취하자 이들은 C씨를 엎고 인근 여관으로 향했다. 이들은 여관에 도착한 뒤 순서를 정해 C씨를 성폭행한 것으로 알려졌다.
7:05 pm on April 19th, 2011 30
A good question to ask is why write and print an article like this if no potential solutions are offered in the article.
7:58 pm on April 19th, 2011 31
"A huge picture of a car is at the top of the page with a short explanation at the bottom of the page. Will it be reported in mainstream Korean media? If 4 Americans raped a Korean woman this would be FRONT PAGE news everywhere.
You already know the answer to this. It's been the same answer since day one. Why do expats in the Hermit Kingdom continue to think that responsible and transparent morality will be forthcoming?
10:17 pm on April 19th, 2011 32
This story has been reported in all the major dailies. Its just that the angry expats can't read Korean. The English blogs also filters out the news, they want you to see what they want you to see…lol..
<a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:O6pqbrh-jDcJ:news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/04/19/2011041901369.html+대학생+4명,+술취한+영어학원+원어민+강사+성폭행&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source =www.google.ca” target=”_blank”>http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca…” target=”_blank”>=www.google.ca
The guys were only 17 years old. What was the 25 year old teacher drinking with minors? How did she end up in a motel with them? I would say she lured them and had sex with the minors and now she's crying foul to cover her misdeeds.
10:46 pm on April 19th, 2011 33
If four Korean guys rape a white woman, it won't be be big news here. If four American guys rape a Korean woman, it will be front page here.
If four white guys rape a black woman, it won't be big news in the States. If four black guys rape a white woman, it will be front page in the States.
Every paper is going to print what will peek interest in their own regions. It's the nature of the business.
There's a lot of ugly Korean, ugly American rants on this blog, but I usually ignore it. You all have too much time on your hands and are the epitome of the ugly Koreans and ugly Americans.
11:01 pm on April 19th, 2011 34
Observer also knows a lot that ain't so…
11:09 pm on April 19th, 2011 35
Everybody wants to be a victim these days. I have contempt for that attitude. The rape victim is a victim. The folks who lose a home due to fire, flood, earthquake, etc. are victims. Someone who can't get a job in what amounts to a foreign country is not automatically a victim.
The so-called Gyopos (especially those from mixed marriages) are outcasts from Korean society already, unless they're a professional sports figure or entertainer–and their Korean language skills are perfect.
Why would they think becoming an English teacher would make them socially acceptable? One would think that would just accentuate their problem…
11:33 pm on April 19th, 2011 36
Tom is right.
In Korean thinking, a girl has consented the moment she went to a love motel with a guy(s)… even more if she allowed alcohol to be involved…
…as everbody knows (even in America) that boy plus girl plus love motel plus alcohol can mean very few other things.
American snowflakes love the power and control of saying Yes after Yes after Yes to build things up and then flexing their No Mean No right at the last minute.
This is a bad situation because this poor girl just didn't fully understand that she said a final Yes the moment they got to the room… and any No after that is just a formality to show that she is really so pure. If she really meant No, she wouldn't be there.
At first, this seems wrong to western thought… but when you apply it to realworld situations like a cacktease military girl crying rape after claiming she slept with him naked but she told him they were "just friends", it sure would simplify things.
This certainly sounds like a job for ATEK… not just to help her through this but also to make it clear to its members what a love motel is actually for.
11:53 pm on April 19th, 2011 37
Wow, the koreans are really showing how backward they are (Tom). I've never seen or heard of anyone justifying gang rape until tonight, while reading tom's post.
Tom, I bet I could get your mom drunk and get her to a love motel. Adjummas love me. Once she steps inside the room is it a free-for-all?
Can I invite my friends to pork her too? Would she be consenting to group sex by entering the room?
backwards ass farmers….jesus
12:46 am on April 20th, 2011 38
Don't be silly, my mother wouldn't be stupid enough to go to a motel room with some strange fat white guy that's off the streets. If she was stupid enough, then I wouldn't feel sorry for her at all. She would deserve it.
That white girl in the story probably enjoyed getting the attention, thought they were cute boys, lead them on, got drunk with them, went to the motel room thinking kinky thoughts with alcohol making her more ho*ny. The boys as growing boys they are, thought hey why not? (She's practically saying f*ck me guys I'm so ho*ny). So they they obliged. Now she's saying different because she probably didn't want to get fired by the school she's working in.
1:07 am on April 20th, 2011 39
Tom,
Thank you for confirming what everyone has been saying about gyopos.
You've been a gem.
1:48 am on April 20th, 2011 40
Me, before you continue to spew your hatred of Koreans, please explain how the grown woman ended up in a motel with 17 year old teens. Please explain that.
2:11 am on April 20th, 2011 41
Chickenfart,
You are such an AHOLE with your ATEK spew. Go F-Yourself!
2:29 am on April 20th, 2011 42
You F-Yourself! Chickenface is far more intelligent and far more civilized than you!
3:08 am on April 20th, 2011 43
Tom,
I love Koreans. I strongly dislike mixed up scum-bag gyopos such as yourself. Justify rape? gang rape? You are beyond comprehension and justification.
Sad thing is; you are the typical male gyopo in Korea. You are, in essence, what this thread is about; confused, small minded, misfits escaping a culture they were raised in but could not assimilate into only to find themselves a square peg in a round hole half way around the world.
So, you lash out against big bad whitey.
And, most importantly, you show your mental illness by justifying the actions of the criminals in Korea; rapists, gang rapists, no less.
It's not about a white girl raped by Koreans. It's about you and your mental illness. At least there are no guns here. No fear of a Virginia Tech massacre from Tom while he's in Korea.
Worst we can expect from Tom are anonymous, racist comments.
3:47 am on April 20th, 2011 44
Tom is not a Korean. He's just here to try to divide Koreans and Americans…
3:47 am on April 20th, 2011 45
me wrote:
First off, Tom is NOT a kyopo, so don't smear the rest of kyopo-dom by associating the whole lot with Tom's trolling comments.
Even if Tom's self-described back story were completely true, Tom is a yuhaksaeng studying in Canada. He is not a kyopo. He does not represent kyopos nor regular KoKos for that matter. Tom the troll represents Tom the troll and no one else.
Second, you end up blowing a good strong start by doing the following: (a) complaining of racists like Tom while making a pretty racist generalization yourself about all kyopo, and (b) assuming that the victim is White.
She may very well be White, but we don't know that from the news articles (I haven't read all of them, though, so maybe we do know this). She could also be a kyopo herself. Or Black. Or Hispanic. Or some other Asian. My last tenant in Seoul was a Black woman who taught English, and I recently helped two Japanese-American friends in Hawaii get jobs in Korea, so I'm a bit loath to assume that any English teacher is "whitey."
4:00 am on April 20th, 2011 46
I can smear the gyopos as much as I like until the ROKDrop guy bans me. As far as I'm concerned gyopo males who come here are a bunch of misfit girls.
Tom justified rape, gang rape. 'nough said about tom.
My experience with other gyopos are pretty much the same… hate whitey, complain, cause trouble…etc…
4:01 am on April 20th, 2011 47
ChickenHead in #36, I'm still trying to figure out if you're offering up your comment as a genuine warning or if you're going along with Tom in some sort of tongue-in-cheek way. I'm guessing it's a mixture of both.
I think that what you say is prudent advice — going to a love motel with someone easily sends a signal of sexual willingness and you may be walking into (or be carried into) a sticky situation if you're thinking otherwise — but that doesn't let anyone off the hook here.
Just as the US went through a "no means no" education phase a decade or so ago, so is Korea. Were KoKos to universally think that the girl went to a yŏgwan so she consented, then this case wouldn't be in all the Korean-language news outlets, would it?
Even among the troglodytes who still think going to a yŏkwan is implicit consent and anything goes after that, that line of thinking is generally true only for one-on-one interactions, not two-, three-, or four-on-one, etc. IOW, even among the less enlightened, going to a yŏgwan is not consent to a gang bang, even if you go with multiple individuals.
In fact, going with multiple individuals can seem to suggest a lack of consent of any kind, since in the unspoken rules of dating-and-mating in Korea's youth culture, gang bangs are still off the table enough that it's not an expected outcome.
This is in part because yŏgwans are not just used for sex. They are also used for (a) drinking some more, (b) playing go-stop, (c) crashing until the subways are up and running again, or (d) sleeping off a drunken stupor.
It's easily imaginable that this woman went to the yŏgwan for any of those reasons, particularly (c) or (d). Perhaps convincing the teacher whose Korean language skills are likely not up to par with the general pop was the ploy of the young men, who are 18, not 17 (newspapers tend to report 만 나이).
There is far too little information available on this story to be blaming the victim, even if she foolishly allowed herself to get in the situation she was in.
4:04 am on April 20th, 2011 48
me wrote:
Yes. GI Korea does indeed give you the right to make an arse of yourself over and over again by being a bigot complaining about bigotry.
Really, I don't see how that makes you any different from Tianjin Tom.
Just a thought: Like Tom, maybe that chip on your shoulder skews how you see things. Tom is always seeing evil "whitey" and you're always seeing "a bunch of misfit girls."
4:32 am on April 20th, 2011 49
Tbonetylr,
"Go F-Yourself"
Don't think I haven't tried.
Anyway, my "ATEK spew" was not meant in a bad way.
This IS the stated purpose of ATEK… and should be a purpose of any teacher advocacy organization.
If they step up to the plate on this and actively help this poor woman emotionally, physically, legally, etc., they will gain the credibility they are looking for.
Further, my impression of an aspect of Korean culture is that love motels are there for… uh… "love".
It would not be incorrect for ATEK to speak to a cross-section of Koreans, ask their opinions on the matter, and include the conclusion in a section labeled "cautions".
I have voiced my opinion on the matter based on observation and conversation. Others may agree or disagree.
In the end, it is not really a "spew" to suggest ATEK help teachers from becoming yet another chilling statistic.
5:04 am on April 20th, 2011 50
ChickenHead, I don't really disagree with much of what you have to say, and I encourage you to keep trying to go f- yourself.
Anyway…
Except that them being called "love motels" is a back formation from English. They're called 여관, 여관장, 여인숙, etc., and they are not always considered just for sex.
I mean, I'm not saying people don't go there for sex — the 시간 손님 certainly do — but I am saying that there are non-sex reasons for going to a yŏgwan that are legit and commonplace enough to be reasonable expectations.
That said, I think your idea of making sure people know that a lot of Korean guys still think going into a yŏgwan is implied consent is not a bad one. I wonder, though, if it will go over about as well as warning the same teachers not to run around the alleyways of bar districts in halter tops and miniskirts after 1 a.m.
5:04 am on April 20th, 2011 51
Let it all out Me, let it all out! LOL…
I can see this now. The grown woman walked into a love motel with couple of cute boys… hmm… how does she explain the drinking with them, playing with them, then walking into the love motel with them? What was she doing in there, playing Romper Room? LOL. Explain that one to me, Me.
Another victim complex by our mixed up confused white male friends. They claim this wasn't reported by the Korean media. Wrong again, my retarded ESL teachers. You guys just read what you want to read. Such retarded people…lol…
5:10 am on April 20th, 2011 52
Kushibo,
You make good points… one of the best being that we really don't know the details so it is hard to voice a firm opinion.
This is a pretty severe situation which doesn't sound quite right for Korea. Something is not ringing true.
Drunk taxi drivers commit opportunistic rape on random passengers. Four teenage students from the hogwon where all their personal information is recorded generally don't rape their teacher.
So, I am feeling like there is more to this story… which will explain, if not excuse, their actions.
I voiced my ideas concerning a certain aspect of Korean thinking about love motels and No means No. This was one possible factor in how this snowball might have started rolling.
In some cultures, No doesn't mean No in many cases. Actions that indicate consent speak far louder than words.
For those of you who have lived on the local economy and associated with normal girls, who here hasn't had an experience something like…
…you eat together, you drink together, she comes to your place on the flimsiest of pretenses ("would you like to see my photo album" was mine), you drink some more, start sitting closer together, touch her a little and she doesn't encourage it but she doesn't resist, you kiss on her and she responds passively, you start to remove her clothes and she mumbles "no, no" but makes absolutely no effort to resist, you make the least active yet sweetest and most innocent love you have ever experienced, you put her on top where she suddenly discovers that she CAN orgasm, you finish together and lie side-by-side sharing a cool bottle of water that you thoughtfully placed near the bed, she tells you that you are only her second guy and this is only her third time, you smile to yourself because you heard the same thing 30 times last year, you eventually get up to take a pee and flush the condom while bringing back a warm washcloth for her to clean up with, and you go through THE EXACT SAME THING the next weekend with the same girl… including the "no, no" part.
Hell, I had a sweet little girlfriend (until her parents forced her to get married to a dentist) who said "Oh no! Not tonight" every time we met for over 2 years.
Once again, if this girl was held down while screaming and run train on by 4 guys, there is a big problem here…
…but I somehow don't see 18 year-old English students doing things quite like that…
…meaning I suspect there is another aspect to this story that, when combined with Korean culture, will make things much more clear.
And, again, you are right. We need more information before we can say.
5:16 am on April 20th, 2011 53
Tom, how do you know she "walked" into the "love motel" (which it may not have been; the articles describe it simply as a "yŏgwan")? The article says she was "taken" there.
Was she walking at all? Was she foisted on someone's shoulders? Was she slipped Rohypnol?
Well, actually, she doesn't have to explain drinking with the 18-year-old men away from the yŏgwan. It's up to the men to explain why four of them forced sex on a drunk woman (if that's what they did).
Even though I know you're just trolling, that you're doing so with such glee about something like this is just really sick. You're quite messed up in the head, Tom.
What is it about assaults on women that brings out the worst in trolling? This reminds me of another comments thread on another prominent K-blog, triggered by news of a sexual assault (and murder) of a woman. The end result there was that a prominent commenter known for both trolling by posing as a Korean was permanent banned.
Well, I'll agree with you there. It's kinda stupid to be suggesting that this Korean-language link that came from Korean news sources wasn't being prominently reported in the Korean-language news.
5:19 am on April 20th, 2011 54
Oh, and I agree that they really aren't "love motels" in Korean…
…but the condom machine on the wall speaks louder than the euphemism.
5:24 am on April 20th, 2011 55
Well, I'm not trolling. I just find the knee jerk reactions here very interesting.
The guys were 18, Korean age – which means they were only 17 in Western age. What's she doing there drinking and fraternizing with barely out of high school boys? She was alone, which means she was probably looking to be picked up by someone. By that stupid act alone, she gets no sympathy from me. We all know the promiscuity by white girls are fairly prominent, and it's the norm rather then the exception. Most would not mind having sex with total strangers if they like the guys.
5:28 am on April 20th, 2011 56
ChickenHead, interesting points. Anything I have to say in response is purely speculative.
I'll start off by saying that the lethargic nature of police work in Korea leads me to believe they wouldn't be pressing this unless they thought there might be some there there. Doesn't mean there definitely is, but just makes it considerably more likely.
Second, you assume horny criminals are smart. They're not. They're horny. They do stupid things because they think they can get away with it when their hormones are in high gear. This is why, for example, people have sex even though they don't have a condom. If these four young men are indeed guilty, they probably didn't think through that the teacher knows them and can identify them and might go to the police.
Third, she doesn't have to be held down screaming for it to be rape. If she was sufficiently drunk — or if she had been slipped something — then her ability to resist by screaming or through movement would be seriously diminished.
What 18-year-old Korean high schoolers would have access to a mickey? Not many, but then again, not many get their teacher drunk and bring her to a yŏgwan either. It's not hard to speculate that these four guys were prowling and this was planned. Get her seriously drunk and/or doped. Now I'm being speculative, but I know people this has happened to.
5:31 am on April 20th, 2011 57
Yes, because some people do have sex in yŏgwan.
A lot of Korean restrooms nowhere near yŏgwan also have condom machines. 우리는 고추 하나 or some such thing on them.
At UCI, my undergrad alma mater, we had condom machines in every single restroom on campus, including the library where I worked.
5:35 am on April 20th, 2011 58
Tom wrote:
Tom, newspapers typically list actual age, not Korean age. The ones listed as 18 were most likely actually 18.
That she was drinking alone doesn't necessarily mean she was trying to be picked up, and even if she did, that doesn't mean she was pursuing a five-person gang bang.
The rest of your comment is just plain stupid. If someone were making blanket statements like that about Korean women while you keep pretending to be a KoKo, you'd be all over them for their bigotry.
At any rate, a woman going to a bar to drink and maybe hook up does NOT justify being raped by four guys, nor does it really point to her willingly going off to have sex with four guys at once.
5:44 am on April 20th, 2011 59
Reasonable scenarios, Kushibo…
I guess we just have to wait for more details. I hope there is follow-up and this doesn't vanish down the memory hole like so many other events.
As for slipping a mickey, that's a pretty tall order to come up with in Korea for anyone, let alone an 18 year-old.
As for Tom's comments, I have heard similar things from normal Koreans who were not trolling for a response. There is an impression that big, fat, loud American girls are easier and more aggressive than shy and innocent Korean girls… and it would be hard to rape the willing.
I kinda suspect that a lot of girls in the world are the same… but there are simply levels of culturally-based discretion… and a lot of western girls just don't give a funk who know.
5:51 am on April 20th, 2011 60
"Tom, newspapers typically list actual age, not Korean age"
Not always true. Sometimes they do and sometimes they list the other. It's hard to tell unless specified.
"That she was drinking alone doesn’t necessarily mean she was trying to be picked up, and even if she did, that doesn’t mean she was pursuing a five-person gang bang."
Drinking alone in a bar? Not waiting to be picked up? Right.
"The rest of your comment is just plain stupid. If someone were making blanket statements like that about Korean women while you keep pretending to be a KoKo, you’d be all over them for their bigotry."
Well if they have the right to make such comments about Korean women all the time (and they do it all the time), why can't Tom do the same? What's the matter, can't take back what you guys dish out all the time? If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, my dear retarded white ESL teachers.
6:41 am on April 20th, 2011 61
Tom is Mizar? Hmmm… Never would have realized it without Kushibo's subtle hint!
9:03 am on April 20th, 2011 62
setnaffa, that's actually not what I was hinting at. I can confirm that Tom is or recently was in Toronto, while Mizar was apparently somewhere on the American East Coast. It's possible, but not likely.
I think a more likely explanation is that women reportedly being sexually assaulted brings out the boorishly bad in some people. Baduk, who I also don't suspect of being a sock of either Tom or Mizar, was much the same way.
9:37 am on April 20th, 2011 63
In #36 ChickenHead – "American snowflakes love the power and control of saying Yes after Yes after Yes to build things up and then flexing their No Mean No right at the last minute."
Babooooooom! Did you guys hear that concussion? Is your hair falling out yet? Skin melting?
Oh, I am in a non-western foreign country, I forgot. This means I don't have the protection of my own country's social laws. I might have been sleep-walking during one of my rape fantasy dreams and I was confused. Did I consent? I don't know? It's possible. I can change my mind after sex, right? I want those men to pay a heavy price for my right to change my mind! I don't care that we are not in America! I have every right to throw any man under any bus I choose.
10:24 am on April 20th, 2011 64
Insights from reading this article in Korean:
원어민 = Native Speaker = White American probability = 95%
She was drinking by herself at a 술집 – bar.
Questionable things:
1. 18 year old/17 year old college students are underage drinkers in Korea.
They would need ID to get into the bar right? Who was checking IDs?
2. At the Yeokweon – wouldn't you need IDs to book the room? Did these kids make fake IDs to get into the bar and the yeokweon.
3. Theft – The guys stole 800,000 won worth of stuff/cash from her including her cell phone.
Seems to me like it was Friday night, she just got paid in cash, these guys come in with fake IDs, she's drunk, they go off to the Yeokweon… and they've stolen her stuff.
So… I think a LOT of facts are missing from what the police have put out and they still haven't figured out the whole story.
1:24 pm on April 20th, 2011 65
Tom wrote:
Not in this case it's not. It lists them as college or university students. In all likelihood it is actual age they are referring to. 18, not 17.
Be the better man, Tom.
Look, it makes them look incredibly stupid when they do it, and the same thing happens to you when you do it. Call out their stupidity; don't return in kind.
4:06 pm on April 20th, 2011 66
Tom, you have an overactive imagination and an underutilized brain.
8:33 am on April 21st, 2011 67
It takes a special gift to teach young kids and Mr. Brutus, the many in the picture, appears to have it…plus he's the most stylish kindergarten teacher I've ever seen.
8:34 am on April 21st, 2011 68
Oh, what's wrong this morning. Another typo. The man in the picture, not the many.
12:09 pm on September 19th, 2011 69
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