By If you haven’t heard already Osama Bin Laden has finally been killed:
The founder and spiritual figurehead for al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, is dead. Several officials confirmed the report to CBS News, and say that his body is currently in U.S. hands. President Barack Obama is expected to address the nation on the subject shortly. [CBS News]
The details on how he was killed right now seem sketchy. I am watching CNN right now and they are claiming that Osama Bin Laden was killed in a mansion outside of Islamabad, Pakistan along with other members of his family. It was supposedly from a Predator drone strike. However, CBS News is reporting that Bin Laden was killed in Afghanistan by shooting him in the head and have his body in Afghanistan. MSNBC is saying that he was killed in Pakistan and his body was brought back to Afghanistan. My bet is that he was killed in Pakistan and US forces brought his body back into Afghanistan by helicopter. I would be surprised if the Pakistan government had any foreknowledge of this operation.
MSNBC of course had to politicize this already by mentioning that Bin Laden’s death happened on the 8th anniversary of Bush’s Mission Accomplished speech. What does that have to do with anything? Regardless this is great news for the US and I am not surprised at all that he was eventually killed by US forces. It is was only a matter of time before someone ratted him out or he slipped up. More details are sure to come so stay tuned.
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UPDATE: President Obama confirms that he authorized a US special forces team to travel deep into Pakistan and launch an attack to capture Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden was killed in the fire fight, while no US forces were harmed. President Obama says that counter-terrorism information from Pakistan helped find Bin Laden. That just makes me wonder why the Pakistan government decided to out Bin Laden now? I’m sure there is much more to this story that will eventually come out, but it is great to see that Bin Laden has finally paid for his crimes.
8:49 pm on May 1st, 2011 1
Does this mean mission accomplished?
For myself, I’m suprised to find that the news of DNA confirmation of his death doesn’t move me much. I’m glad they finally got him and made him pay for what he has wrought in the world, but I question the impact his death now will have.
Getting rid of the training camps in Afghanistan was the primary mission – at least to me – after 9/11. With similar importance was finally taking Islamic global terrorism seriously enough to implement wide-ranging changes in policy and procedures and a concerted, long-term effort to combat it.
Bin Laden has been in hiding for so long, how important has he been in the last few years in terms of the continuing threat?
8:50 pm on May 1st, 2011 2
What I want to know is what took Obama nearly two-and-a-half years to do this.
8:51 pm on May 1st, 2011 3
Sorry. That was meant for the birther post.
8:56 pm on May 1st, 2011 4
Allha is great
9:54 pm on May 1st, 2011 5
Q: What is the difference between Obama and Osama?
A: Obama just ACTS like he has a hole in his head.
10:06 pm on May 1st, 2011 6
Congratulations to the service members who courageously and skillfully accomplished this mission. I know all ROK heads will also join me in congratulating President Obama and his national security team.
10:26 pm on May 1st, 2011 7
Where is the death certificate?
…long-form, of course.
10:38 pm on May 1st, 2011 8
#4 & #5 Thanks for the two smiles
10:42 pm on May 1st, 2011 9
I thought Abbottabad was an unusual name for a Pakistani city. I found out that it was founded by James Abbott under the British Raj.
10:43 pm on May 1st, 2011 10
#6 Glans, I’ll be happy to congradulate the Troops that did the work and took the risk. And a round or two of drinks of course
10:44 pm on May 1st, 2011 11
Head Shot!
Think Van Halen “Dancing in the Streets”
O Osama Bin Laden is dead Oh yes yes yes he is. Fa La La La…
Remember, on 9/11 many Korean students were clapping when they heard the news about the Twin Towers collapsing.
Why are they going to bury him within 24 hours? They ought to burn him, isn’t that what happened to most of the bodies he’s responsible for? Where will they bury him? Grave Robbers?
I did a little
10:46 pm on May 1st, 2011 12
I a little hop in my class as I sang to the song mentioned and when I told my students. They heard it from me first.
11:01 pm on May 1st, 2011 13
Tbonetylr wrote:
Who? Where? Did you see this?
Nobody… absolutely nobody around me had any such reaction, and I was working and going to school among South Koreans of a wide range of social classes, education levels, and socioeconomic backgrounds.
Most were freaked out. They had relatives or friends (Korean and American) in New York City. The press was talking, additionally, about how many dozens of Koreans were killed. There were concerns there would be attacks on US military bases in Korea.
It was a surreal time. But I don’t recall seeing anyone clapping about it. I heard that happened in the Palestinian territories, and later saw video purporting to show that, but I never saw any such thing in Seoul.
There was, some months later, a “sports shinmun” commercial that depicted Osama bin Laden and terrorists trying to fly a plane into the towers, which was seen by many Americans to be an insensitive representation of the attack. The commercial was depicting its newspaper as being so interesting that it foiled the attack, but somehow the meme became that it was glorifying it. Still, rather insensitive, and I mention it because that was the only really egregious thing I saw out of it.
Sure, there were later some leftist Koreans who said that the chickens were coming home to roost, but that was also being said by leftist Americans, so I’m not going to single out SoKos for that. There was also a poorly and leadingly worded poll that had a shockingly high minority of South Koreans saying they were (supposedly) disappointed that Iraq fell so quickly. But I don’t recall the clapping.
That’s not to say it didn’t happen. Maybe it happened in your class. Maybe it happened in your friend’s class. Maybe it happened in the class of a friend of a friend of a friend. But if it really did (and I hold out that it may have), I don’t think that was typical or representative.
[sigh]
This is a great day for our country. I’m proud that our president, his national security team, and especially our excellent military personnel, were able to pull this off.
It is a poorly chosen time, methinks, to bash Obama, Bush43, or, of all people in all places, South Koreans.
11:03 pm on May 1st, 2011 14
I want to reiterate this:
This is a great day for our country. I’m proud that our president, his national security team, and especially our excellent military personnel, were able to pull this off.
God bless this country. God bless all the people who have been killed or otherwise suffered because of the War on Terror started and waged by the Islamists. God bless our men and women in uniform.
11:08 pm on May 1st, 2011 15
Oh man, if Pakistan just cooperates a little more I hope we start interdicting lines of communication along the border. This is the better than Christmas.
11:14 pm on May 1st, 2011 16
Kushibo,
Please, please, please tell me your irony is intentional.
God bless this, God bless that, Allahu akbar… etc.
In case you didn’t notice, the evocation of God is pretty much the root of the whole problem.
11:22 pm on May 1st, 2011 17
Looks like that is the only money shot the military is going to get for a while.
http://news.antiwar.com/2011/05/01/obama-backs-off-support-for-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/
11:50 pm on May 1st, 2011 18
Osama… Dead from Inter-cranial lead poisoning.
Wonder if it was the short form DD 9mm or .45.. or did they have to resort to the long Form DD 5.56 or DD Special 7.62×51..
11:51 pm on May 1st, 2011 19
Tbonetylr, Americans on Facebook and twitter celebrated the Japanese earthquake, saying it was payback for Pearl Harbor.
12:17 am on May 2nd, 2011 20
Qadaffi must be shitting himself again right now
12:32 am on May 2nd, 2011 21
Warning Graphic Video with Bin Laden Headshot corpse
http://blogginginamerica.net/610/news/breaking-news-video-images-of-dead-osama-bin-laden-with-a-bullet-in-his-head-warning-you-are-about-to-see-bin-laden-dead-and-somewhat-disfigured/
Well, here’s an apparent Pakistani-English video with an image supposed to be the corpse and it’s pretty BLUF with the image.
12:36 am on May 2nd, 2011 22
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-compound-idUSTRE7411NX20110502
Well, in the coming weeks, people are going to start to ask why Pakistan was just telling us about this now – like GI Korea noted in his update.
Obviously, elements in the Pakistani government were protecting him for no telling how many years, and the overall Pakistani government either agreed with it or didn’t feel it had the political power to disagree with it…
And since the place was built in 2005, my guess would be it was specifically done for bin Laden.
50 years from now, historicans and political scientists are going to have much to say about the US-Pakistan policies from the 80s to now…
12:43 am on May 2nd, 2011 23
Anyhow, since the liberal Democrat Obama is in the White House, I’m sure Hollywood will only take a couple of months to crank out a blockbuster-scale movie about this event — probably with sequels even….
And you can bet there won’t be a sour note about the morality of assassinations or the killing of a young wife and blah blah blah…
12:46 am on May 2nd, 2011 24
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Bin-Ladens-death-Hillary-Clinton-nearly-blew-the-whistle-on-ISI-safehouse/articleshow/8141352.cms
Indians obviously not surprised, and are saying Hillary almost let the cat out of the bag a year ago. Claiming this was an ISI (Pakistani CIA) safehouse.
1:12 am on May 2nd, 2011 25
http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/05/02/2011050201046.html?news_top
Comments section for the Chosun Ilbo is worth reading.
A lot of people wondering if someone should do the same thing to Kim Jong Un and Kim Jong Il.
1:32 am on May 2nd, 2011 26
Obama has the momemtum 2012 now.
1:43 am on May 2nd, 2011 27
ChickenHead wrote:
Well, I don’t see it that way. That is, I feel what you’re saying is a gross oversimplification.
It is the adherence to decidedly ungodly and unholy interpretations of mainstream faiths that is the root of the problem.
Terror in the name of Islam is not legitimate Islam. Ditto with, say, pro-choice people bombing abortion clinics or government sites, etc.
A lot of good is done by people who evoke the name of God. They are not perfect people, of course, and sometimes screw up. But that is not what Osama bin Laden and his ilk were. They were sociopaths who twisted their religious faith into a (bogus) excuse to murder by the hundreds or thousands (or more, possibly, had we not stopped them).
1:47 am on May 2nd, 2011 28
usinkorea wrote:
That’s quite a thing to get worked up about that hasn’t even happened.
1:56 am on May 2nd, 2011 29
Ben,
Those were most likely idiot adults, those Koreans that cheered 10 years ago included young school kids. The difference = Korean students are taught and allowed to hate at an earlier age while in class.
1:57 am on May 2nd, 2011 30
ben345 wrote:Tbonetylr, Americans on Facebook and twitter celebrated the Japanese earthquake, saying it was payback for Pearl Harbor.I realize you’re trying to counter tbonetylr’s (apocryphal) claim, but I would like to point out something nonetheless.
If there were such people (and some people brought such remarks to my attention), just who are they? They’re anonymous people on boards where few will ever have any chance of knowing who they are. Such fora are typically not like this one, where people develop a rep they’d prefer not to trash and might even know other commenters in the real world. For some, it’s easy to go for insensitive shock value.
But among Americans, how typical are the “revenge for Pearl Harbor” types? They are on the fringe, not representative in any way, even if some would point to them to “prove” how horrible Americans are in general.
If it makes you feel better (and it shouldn’t), karma is watching them.
2:26 am on May 2nd, 2011 31
#28 – Wanna place some bets?
2:32 am on May 2nd, 2011 32
Too bad he’s dead. No pain just nothingness like some piece of road kill. For starters, I think it would have been better to see if we could replicate a real human centipede, with him in middle of course along with a few of his Al Queda buddies. I would have wished him a prolonged life with as much misery and pain as possible.
/at least bury him with some bacon or pork chops, please!
2:36 am on May 2nd, 2011 33
If Pakistan was protecting bin Laden in such luxury all these years, I’d have to rethink how much influence I thought he might have on current terrorist activity…
The built the place for him in 2005. It would seem logical he was in their care before that – hence the decision to construct a fort for him.
I’m getting mental images of Goodfellas where the young Henry Hill ran around in the rain with Tuttie holding an umbrella while they ferried the local godfather’s telephone messages…
I’m starting to think Pakistan’s role here is just as big a story as finally killing bin Laden…
And I guess he was a better position to influence the global network he founded than I had previously thought possible…
This really sucks. Pakistan was not held accountable for the brazen terror attacks in India, and it will not be held accountable for housing bin Laden or much else it has been a facilitator for…
2:42 am on May 2nd, 2011 34
I’m not saying it can’t happen. I’m saying that, given the possibility it might not turn out quite the way you’re saying, why don’t you wait until it actually happens.
That you’re already looking for it before any ink would be dry on any “blockbuster,” maybe you’re coloring your perceptions of any Osama-related movie just a tad, such that you will find what you’re looking for not because it’s there but because you’re looking for it.
That a movie will be made about it is a no-brainer. That the media will be all over the leftist, pro-Democratic viewpoint, well, that may not be happening quite the way you think.
You see, military feel-good stories favor the heroes of the story, and in this case it happens to be a Democratic president.
Back when a Republican was in the White House, the same liberal Hollywood went to bat for ole Dubya as well. Remember the Jessica Lynch miniseries? That was all about highlighting (apocryphal) heroes of George W. Bush’s war. And yet not a liberal Democratic president in sight back then.
2:44 am on May 2nd, 2011 35
Kushibo – “It is the adherence to decidedly ungodly and unholy interpretations of mainstream faiths that is the root of the problem.”
I do agree with this statement to a very small degree. This idea does not change the fact that “fundamentalists” are killing in the name of a “God”. It should also be noted that there are quite a few “fundamentalists” within Islam. How many other religions can claim this shame? These individuals are funneling into Iraq and Afghanistan like rain-soaked ants.
No other religion is actively pursuing terrorism throughout the world. I don’t see any diety remotely close to this planet. I guess Pluto is a possibility.
2:52 am on May 2nd, 2011 36
No other religion is pursuing terrorism now. Though not nearly the same degree, not long ago we had Christian fundamentalists pursuing terror against those they saw as infidels — Planned Parenthood facilities, the Olympics, etc. The ongoing Protestant-versus-Catholic violence in Ireland was religious sects pursuing terrorism in the name of their faith.
Of course, all of this killing by self-described Christians was clearly un-Christian, just as Islamic terrorism has quite a few fatwa against it.
The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of fundamentalist Christians don’t kill anybody. The same is true of the vast, vast, vast majority of fundamentalist Muslims. That people kill in the name of Islam has probably more political, social, and/or economic factors (not that that means all terrorists are poor; Osama obviously wasn’t) that explain it. Most Muslim terrorists, after all, kill other Muslims.
2:58 am on May 2nd, 2011 37
usinkorea wrote:
I don’t know if they were protecting him. Pakistan is a country about one-eighth larger than Texas, but with SEVEN times the people. How hard would it be to simply build a house — even a large one — and simply work to stay below the radar?
The Pakistanis did apparently cooperate in terms of intelligence (at least that’s what I heard a couple hours ago). Our side knew of this place since last year and were staking it out to make sure it really was OBL.
I think Osama bin Laden could live in a place like this without the authorities in Karachi knowing about it. I’m not going to point the finger at them unless we have more than innuendo to go on.
3:06 am on May 2nd, 2011 38
Kushibo 27 says, “Terror in the name of Islam is not legitimate Islam. Ditto with, say, pro-choice people bombing abortion clinics or government sites, etc.”
3:06 am on May 2nd, 2011 39
Within a year, 18 months tops, Hollywood will churn out a heavily funded, herioc movie about this.
After 9/11? Almost nothing. Nothing with big budgets and big name stars.
Why? A neo-con was in the White House, and you couldn’t go all patriotic with movie then, could they?
They did manage to bring out Chalie Wilson’s War — covering the Reagan-era war in Afghanistan — in which they told us a senile Reagan didn’t know the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan and the Soviet’s weren’t driven out (in part) by the CIA but one democrat-led cell within the CIA – which had to suceed despite the CIA itself…
If Obama (or Clinton) had been in office post-9/11, we would have seen several well-funded movies about counter-terrorism (with Muslims named as the bad guys) and war movies about US and allied operations in Afghanistan…
I have absolutely zero doubt about this.
1 to 1 1/2 years…
Doubt if Tom Hanks will be in it. He’s kinda old. Who are the popular young actors out there now waiting to be made a blockbuster hero?
(Obama can play himself…)
3:09 am on May 2nd, 2011 40
Other allied nations were deliberately not told about the upcoming strike. Hmmmmm. Interesting. Plus, judging by the different “stories” fed to different media sources about how this was accomplished, I’m guessing that part of the coverup of the strike against Bin Laden involved lying to different media sources. Would media sources have tipped off Bin Laden about an imminent attack? I guess we’ll have to wait for the Woodward book to see.
3:10 am on May 2nd, 2011 41
Pakistani intelligence wouldn’t know about an extraorginary safe house fortress build on the outskirts of its capital?
Boggles the mind.
Not being able to pinpoint him in the eastern tribal lands? Fine. But, do you have to stretch the imagination this far to disagree with people?
3:17 am on May 2nd, 2011 42
I didn’t say they wouldn’t know about it. But they wouldn’t necessarily know about who is in it. I mean, it’s not as if nobody in Pakistan has extravagant estates.
And the fact is (apparently), they did learn about it, which is why we’re talking about this today.
3:20 am on May 2nd, 2011 43
“Ben,
Those were most likely idiot adults, those Koreans that cheered 10 years ago included young school kids. The difference = Korean students are taught and allowed to hate at an earlier age while in class.”
Oh my god. I knew this kind of comment would show up here somewhere.
This only proves what hypocrites the expats are. So some school children “supposedly” celebrated Bin Laden’s attack tens years ago. Supposedly according to him and the other expats with an agenda and a victim complex. But look how they’re excusing the crude comments made by Americans. You think they’re anonymous Kushibo? Look how many American TV and media personel who laughed at the Japan quake. What about the Asian tsunami in 2004, when there even rap songs about those “dead Orientals” and how many Ameircans were laughing it up and clapping. You guys are truly hypocrites. 
3:23 am on May 2nd, 2011 44
Sorry to ruin the party, people.
But where’s the body? According to the Americans, they buried it in the sea. hmm….. how convenient….sounds like they wanted to hide something right away.
And another thing. A Pakistani who is living in that area heard the firefight and saw one of the helicopters getting shot down. He said he’s sure nobody survived. Sounds like the claims of no American casualty is a lie.
3:27 am on May 2nd, 2011 45
#42 I’ll give up and stand by what I’ve written so far…
3:34 am on May 2nd, 2011 46
usinkorea wrote:
Okay, so what’s your goalpost? It has to be big budget and big stars?
“World Trade Center” in 2006 starred Nicholas Cage. Does that count? I’m guessing you’ll say it was too long afterward for it to count, but there’s a bit of an apples and oranges comparison there: sensitivities about an on-going war a bit different (i.e., more heightened) a few years into it than ten years into it.
And does the “United 93″ then not count because it was in 2006? How about made-for-TV “Flight 93″?
You seem to have utterly ignored “Saving Jessica Lynch,” an NBC made-for-TV movie that seemed to have been quite popular at the time. It aired seven months after the incident it portrayed in April 2003. A pure propaganda effort (I don’t mean “propaganda” in the sense of being dishonest; the folks at NBC who made it probably believed at the time it was reasonably accurate).
And then let’s not forget that all the supposed liberal Hollywood networks went into weeks of no entertainment so that they could present 9/11 24/7. This helped George W. Bush’s approval ratings shoot into the stratosphere.
So methinks you’re being a bit selective in your memory of things, and/or your definition.
Let’s not forget that Democrats can be skewered by Hollywood as well. “Black Hawk Down” was, if I remember correctly, an indirect indictment of Clinton’s efforts in Somalia. And although it’s not war related, there are films like “Primary Colors,” which depicted Bill Clinton in a decidedly unappealing light. (But it made “Hillary” look good, so maybe it was all about propelling her to the Senate and then the State Department.)
When Hollywood gives us movies like “Red Dawn” during the height of the Reagan era and “Black Hawk Down” at the close of the Clinton era, methinks it’s a selective interpretation of Hollywood to suggest it doesn’t swing conservative from time to time.
3:39 am on May 2nd, 2011 47
Glans wrote:
Glans, weren’t you aware that abortion clinic bombings are false flag operations.
Nah, just kidding. I just mistyped. I eant to say pro-life people bombing abortion clinics. I blame the comment editor, which lost my original comment so that I had to retype it.
3:42 am on May 2nd, 2011 48
I have to point out, in terms of South Korea’s reaction to 9/11, if you looked at images outside the US Embassy in Seoul, and compared it to those in London, Paris, and even stalwart pro-US capitals like Teheran and Beijing, you saw lots and lots of flowers laid by common citizens. Not so outside the one in Seoul – where the usual small group of anti-US protesters (led by Priest I) protested the possible US military response.
Times do seem to have changed in South Korea, but that was the picture back then.
And what I heard from the small group of Koreans I was studying with at the time was how they feared the US government would use 9/11 as an excuse to withhold student visas to Koreans who protested USFK and US foreign policies…
3:43 am on May 2nd, 2011 49
usinkorea wrote:
You may be right, usinkorea. I honestly don’t know what we’ll find out.
Maybe the Pakistanis in Karachi knew about OBL’s location all along.
Maybe local Pakistani authorities knew but didn’t tell Karachi.
Maybe they suspected, and when they were fairly certain, they contacted Washington (and maybe Clinton’s own pressure led to that happening.)
Maybe a combination of any of those (at different times).
I’m just going to wait until we know more before I bash someone.
Tom, they buried OBL at sea. I don’t like the sound of that, but it is apparently a Muslim tradition.
It may be smart to have disposed of OBL’s body in accordance with Muslim tradition, just so he doesn’t get turned into a martyr more than he already might be.
3:48 am on May 2nd, 2011 50
World Trade Center 2006 – didn’t see it. Will download it. 5 years is kinda long.
United 93 counts. Was Tom Cruise in that?
….but…..This is hopeless. If you can’t easily picture the Pakistani government knowing bin Laden was in that fortress…? Why debate whether or not Hollywood remained eeriely quiet post-9/11?……
3:49 am on May 2nd, 2011 51
Tom, what are people around you in Canada saying or doing about this?
A Japanese friend wanted to talk with me at length about this: She was happy about the news, but she was bewildered about people partying wildly in the streets (this was on TV for some hours). She couldn’t think of anything that might happen in Japan where people would behave this way.
In Korea, the closest I could think of is Korea advancing to the World Cup semi-finals in 2002. Even in 2006, people were giddy.
3:49 am on May 2nd, 2011 52
United 93 – $15 million budget – Tom Cruise makes more than that per film…
3:49 am on May 2nd, 2011 53
#24,
Listening to the report, it sounds like the shit is hitting in the fan, and that’s a good thing. It’s been a near certainty for years that the Taliban, and maybe even Al-Quaida, are closely connected to the ISI. The fact he was apparently taken out in what appears to be an ISI safe-house shouldn’t surprise anyone.
3:55 am on May 2nd, 2011 54
Downloaded World Trade Center 2006 — Where is the part about the massive military response to strike back at the enemy so I can fast forward to it?
3:55 am on May 2nd, 2011 55
usinkorea, I think you’re not really looking at what I’m writing and just assuming stuff. I didn’t say I can’t picture it. I’m saying that me (or you) picturing it is not the same as it actually having happened. I’d prefer to wait and see what really happened before I go bashing Pakistan’s government.
And since you seem to feel it’s so obvious that a big compound in Abbottobad is Osama bin Laden’s lair, do you mind going to Google Earth and finding it for us?
Here, I’ll get you started.
3:58 am on May 2nd, 2011 56
Yep, an Obama re-election in 2012 is guaranteed.
4:00 am on May 2nd, 2011 57
usinkorea wrote:
Um, so how much will be the budget for the future movie that will be made to glorify Obama over the capture of Osama? Who will star in it?
You do realize, don’t you, that so far it’s a figment of your imagination. And while it might end up getting made, it’s a it’s an apples-and-imaginary-oranges to look at the budget, cast, or storyline of the actual movies made about 9/11 and compare them negatively to a movie that so far has not been made, cast, written, or possibly even conceived by anyone but you, based solely on what you imagine it will be like.
It would be like Bob saying to Ted that his future wife — who he has not met yet — is better looking than Ted’s wife.
4:02 am on May 2nd, 2011 58
OK, Kushibo. You aren’t running flack for Pakistan for some strange reason. You’re just a stickler for proof before commenting.
Black Hawk Down — my mother thought it was a terrific anti-war movie. I thought it was a tarrific movie about fighting men. Clinton’s name wasn’t mentioned in it. It was only an indirect indictment of his policies for the few in the audience who paid attention to history and 1 or 2 lines in the movie…
4:04 am on May 2nd, 2011 59
It’s a prediction I feel safe in. $15 million isn’t removetly big budget.
1 to 1/2 years. Blockbuster movie with big names. Scenes of the White House warroom with an Obama character looking good. Maybe it will even come out before the election. Will propel one or two young, handsome actors into stardom….
Maybe Tom Hanks for Peneta…
Morgan Freeman’s too old to play Obama – Denzel doesn’t fit either.
4:05 am on May 2nd, 2011 60
Sam wrote:
Following Desert Storm, Bush41′s approval rating hit 89%. Later the next year, he was defeated by a philandering governor from a very poor state.
In the aftermath of 9/11, Bush43′s approval ratings shot up to 90%. He won re-election, but by the following term he was one of the most unpopular presidents of all time.
Obama still needs to get gas prices under control (not that he has much ability to do so), and if job growth goes south again, he may be a one-termer.
4:09 am on May 2nd, 2011 61
usinkorea, if they make such a movie, it will have little to do with Obama being a liberal Democrat and have everything to do with Osama’s death being a watershed event that brings a huge dollop of closure to a national nightmare.
“Liberal Hollywood” also makes feel-good movies about war and heroes during Republican administrations, and it also makes movies critical about White House and its policies during Democratic administrations.
Just don’t be so selective about your interpretations, especially when the thing you’re getting so worked up about hasn’t even happened yet so that you would even be able to comment on how it turned out.
4:17 am on May 2nd, 2011 62
Last word from me – post-9/11, Hollywood did next to nothing.
4:19 am on May 2nd, 2011 63
Mideast scholar Juan Cole reflects on Obama and the end of Al-Qaeda. He suggests that the Pakistani government was involved more than Obama let on. He summarizes bin Laden’s career and ends with this hopeful thought:
If Obama can get us out of Iraq, and if he can use his good offices to keep the pressure on the Egyptian military to lighten up, and if he can support the likely UN declaration of a Palestinian state in September, the US will be in the most favorable position in the Arab world it has had since 1956. And he would go down in history as one of the great presidents. If he tries to stay in Iraq and he takes a stand against Palestine, he risks provoking further anti-American violence. He can be not just the president who killed Bin Laden, but the president who killed the pretexts for radical violence against the US. He can promote the waving of the American flag in major Arab cities. And that would be a defeat and humiliation for Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda more profound than any they could have dreamed.
Read it at Informed Comment.
4:21 am on May 2nd, 2011 64
Wrong, usinkorea. Hollywood dropped everything and turned Ground Zero into a weeks-long reality TV program. Weeks. Everything else was canceled.
This was a major factor in the “neo-con in the White House” having his popularity shoot up to nearly universal approval.
4:33 am on May 2nd, 2011 65
Wow, reaction of fellow military members is… they don’t really give a shit. They get ten times more excited about fantasy football than Osama getting shot. They feel like it doesn’t really change anything anyway.
4:49 am on May 2nd, 2011 66
Bin Laden hiding in some newly built huge mansion in Abbotabad would be like the world’s largest terrorist living Killeen, Texas out side of Ft. Hood which has a nearly similar population of 120,000 as Abbotabad.
I have always felt that the ISI new where Bin Laden is just like they know where Mullah Omar is down in Quetta. That is why I don’t think the Pakistan government was informed of this operation before it happened.
Also keep in mind that because the ISI knew where Bin Laden was doesn’t mean that President Zadari did. Zadari is not completely in control of his country.
As far as the cheering outside the White House I thought it was in bad taste as well but it appeared to be a bunch of college students. I’m sure President Obama would have preferred a move solemn mood for the night instead of the party that ended up happening.
4:55 am on May 2nd, 2011 67
I’m not military, but I wouldn’t have considered bin Laden getting killed much of a big deal if it had happened in the tribal areas or in Afghanistan. Because, I had guessed years ago that the hunt for him was so hot, even in Pakistan, that he had to lay too low to be effective.
Now, due to where he was killed, that doesn’t work for me at all…
In short, the bigger story for me here is just how much of the Pakistani government was helping him and what that has meant to the terrorist networks strength year-to-year.
Killing bin Laden in the tribal regions would have been a significant, big story, but I wouldn’t have done more than glance at headlines via Google News about it.
4:59 am on May 2nd, 2011 68
“They feel like it doesn’t really change anything anyway.”
One good hope I do have now is – killing him might make more of a difference than I previously thought.
If he has been protected to the point of feeling fairly comfortable for several years, then he might have remained more important for the coordination and planning and whatnot for the terrorist operation than I’d thought. Which might mean killing him will have a greater negative impact on it…
5:05 am on May 2nd, 2011 69
So we’re basically in a case of what did Pakistan know and when did they know it?
I think we’re plausibly looking at something where a few locals might have had hints of OBL’s presence but didn’t know for sure, and this information simply wasn’t shared with people in national government. That’s my best guess, but it could very well be that everyone knew and they didn’t tell the US because of any number of reasons (fear of a major battle that would kill innocent Pakistanis, fear of an uprising afterward, etc.).
If it’s the latter, that’s one more reason not to tell the Pakistanis. It gives our “ally” plausible deniability.
I’m still not convinced that just because there was a large compound there that the local or especially the national authorities should have been able to figure out OBL was there. The place was off the grid, communications wise, and sort of non-descript (from what I’ve read/heard). There are plenty of rich Pakistanis who live in nice compounds.
If I pointed you in the direction of ritzy Itaewon Heights, could you definitely figure out which of the several hundred homes is owned by the Samsung heir?
I’m reminded that my parents had a next-door neighbor whose granddaughter’s boyfriend was running a meth lab out of the garage for several years. No one figured it out, yet in hindsight the signs were pretty obvious.
5:08 am on May 2nd, 2011 70
usinkorea wrote:
I agree with you here. I think Osama bin Laden had two things — money and a message — that made him still very dangerous. He was still plotting things and carrying them out. People were still trying to do his bidding. He was a central figure, charismatic in his own way.
I think also that the real consequences of this are something we will never see, in the form of an attack that will end up not happening.
5:14 am on May 2nd, 2011 71
Ahmed Rashid (Pakistani Journalist) has been saying for years that the ISI was protecting Bin Laden. His book, Descent into Chaos explains how US Special Forces overwatched as America opened an air corridor that allowed the ISI to evacuate Taliban in 2001.
6:24 am on May 2nd, 2011 72
Kangaji you are referring to the Konduz Airlift or Evil that yes surrounded Taliban were evacuated in 2001 but most importantly is the fact there ISI handlers were evacuated as well. This was a huge mistake. This same ISI agents are busy fighting us again in Afghanistan. We may not be at war with Pakistan but we are at war with the ISI.
As far this being a game changer it is not. When guys like Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Jalaluddin Haqqani, and Mullah Omar and the Quetta Shura are killed than that will be a game changer. The US Special Forces should have knocked on the doors of Bin Laden’s next door neighbors because they likely would have found Hekmatyar and Haqqani there as well.
Mullah Omar and his Quetta Shura members are also likely living in large mansions in Quetta living in luxury under ISI protection while continuing to send young men and men and even children to die in Afghanistan.
7:12 am on May 2nd, 2011 73
Is it time to approach India about the possibility of forming a strong regional alliance?
7:24 am on May 2nd, 2011 74
The press back ground briefing has confirmed that Pakistan was not made aware of the operation and that Bin Laden was located by following a trusted courier. They identified the courier in August 2010 and began tracking his movements to where they found the compound in Abbottabad. The intelligence analysts determined that a compound in this location, scale, and defensive measures meant that probably Bin Laden was there.
What is going to be of great use is the fact that the US SOF team spent plenty of time in the compound gathering whatever documents and other intelligence information they could get their hands on before flying out. This could be huge in regards to unraveling future plots, determining what Pakistani government leaders they are working with, as well as identifying the locations of other key Al Qaeda members such as Bin Laden’s deputy Zawahiri.
President Obama deserves credit for authorizing the strike because they had no hard evidence that Bin Laden was there but authorized the strike anyway. This could have very well had Jimmy Carter Desert One like implications if things went bad and they almost did with a malfunctioning helicopter. Fortunately our US SOF operators were skilled enough to complete the mission after losing the helicopter. In the attack not only was Bin Laden killed but so was two couriers and Bin Laden’s son. One woman was killed as well when one of these guys cowardly used a woman as a human shield.
The disposing of Bin Laden’s body at sea though is sure to lead to the “deather” movement next. I assume they took plenty of pictures and DNA samples beforehand in order to put in conspiracy theories to rest.
7:44 am on May 2nd, 2011 75
I saw one of the images of a dead bin Laden on an Indian news site. That will inflame many in parts of the world, and it will invite criticism in part of the Western world and elsewhere, but it isn’t like there wasn’t going to be blowback no matter what…
8:07 am on May 2nd, 2011 76
I know I already cheered the death of this terrorist, but watching all those americans celebrating his death in the streets looks kinda weir …
I know that the day Kim Jong Il dies surely I will do the same, but it is strange looking at people rejoicing over the death of someone …
Well, life is complicated …
8:24 am on May 2nd, 2011 77
From the brief notes I’ve seen, the large scale cheering in the street was in DC and NY — those were the two cities hit on 9/11 and the two cities that have had the most intrusion into what had been their normal lives prior to that.
I don’t feel like shouting over his death but I probably would have opened my window and joined them if I were a New Yorker…
8:59 am on May 2nd, 2011 78
#76 Dr.Yu, I understand your feelings, but New Yorkers have every reason to be dancing in the streets. It must be “Personel” for them. As a side note, I reject the thought that all life is important. I OBL’s case, it was only important that it be ended, the more violent the better. Life is not too complicated Dr.Yu. In this case it is very simple. File it under: Revenge. The lession is that if you hurt America, America will hurt you back. Might take a while—-
I didn’t do any dancing, but I will be smiling all day long.
9:35 am on May 2nd, 2011 79
RGI, I’m not bashing you but if revenge is a legitime reason to wish someone’s death than is it wright Koreans wishing the death of some japanese or revenge because of the atrocities they committed during the colonization? I still believe that life is complicated …
Anyway, you are wright, new yorkers have all the reason to make it personal …
9:36 am on May 2nd, 2011 80
I was just thinking — we should give the intel guys some big kudos too — along with the fingers on the trigger guys who pulled the raid off.
Over the years, intel takes a beating, and some of it rightly so, but it’s a tough job and I’d guess pretty much thankless. You don’t really get the feeling all those people cheering in the streets wanted to run up and hug an intel guy (or girl)…
It must be a frustrating career in many ways and something like this should be the big payoff, but they don’t get the glory.
10:03 am on May 2nd, 2011 81
#79 Dr.Yu I think there might be some factors that should be included to call some act “revenge”. Like Personel involvement, Time Line, personel suffering. I understand what you’re asking. A Feeling of distrust I would understand in your situation. I reluctance to trust. But the time line is getting long. Also the “individuals” involved are no longer around, for the most part. Japan is no longer the Japan of that time. So to me, it seems like wasted emotions by people with nothing CURRENT to be involved with. It is no longer “personal”.
I’m still pissed at the way Koreans acted in 2002 as an example, but I was personally involved. It effected me. But I’m not mad at Korea the country or Koreans in general.
Life can surely be made complicated by others involved in an individuals life. But that is a reason to limit the involvement of the “others” as much as an individual wishes.
I like to follow my Mom’s cat as an example of the correct way to live.
Eat, Sleep and lick myself. Well, not the last one. But it is only angry if it has no other option.
I could have it all wrong, but the cat is happy.
10:36 am on May 2nd, 2011 82
GI Korea – exactly, I am refering to the Airlift of Evil. Actually, Special Forces wasn’t overwatching in the sense of providing security or monitoring a kill zone – wrong use of terminology – they were observing the airlift in the book and reporting in what they saw.
Holy crap, and Dr. Yu are you an actual South Korean? Good to have an alternative point of view….
10:46 am on May 2nd, 2011 83
GI Korea – so you’re saying certain ISI agents are actual HVTs and not necessarily protected by the ROE. That’s a big relief and something I was worried about.
#53 – I love the India times because sometimes they just cut through a lot of BS about Pakistan that the state department probably/I would guess doesn’t want to say that doesn’t get relayed to US newspapers.
11:00 am on May 2nd, 2011 84
#81 – That particular candidate who whipped up all the anti-american sentiment alleviated my anger in 2009.
11:06 am on May 2nd, 2011 85
“President Obama says that counter-terrorism information from Pakistan helped find Bin Laden. That just makes me wonder why the Pakistan government decided to out Bin Laden now?”
Maybe we finally out-bid him.
11:10 am on May 2nd, 2011 86
A vignette from the beginning of a long war:
“A handful of Green Berets from the 5th Special Forces Group had just spent their summer training an airborne unit of the Kazakhstani Army, and they were almost halfway into their final month as advisors in the former Soviet republic. … A pizza parlor in the center of [the capital,] Almaty had been the nightly haunt for the Green Berets, who would socialize over slices of pie after long days… One of the special operators, Sergeant First Class Mike McElhiney, answered the cell phone that began vibrating on his hip. … As he listened, his steel-square jaw lost its smile, and he dropped his slice of pepperoni back onto his plate. After a few moments, McElhiney closed the flip phone and called out to the restaurant’s owner: “Holy shit! Turn the television to the BBC!”
The gruff ex-Soviet pizza maker quickly flipped through the stations. …
As the Green Berets watched the screen in disbelief, they saw the second plane hit the Twin Towers. After several reruns of the destruction of the world’s foremost cityscape, they began to discuss who could be responsible for such an atrocity. All of the Green Berets had the same opinion: Osama bin Laden.
McElhiney’s phone rang again, and this time it was Green Beret headquarters at Fort Campbell, Kentucky.
“Right, right, roger that!” McElhiney hung up the phone.
“Fucking A, guys, we’re going to war.”
– Robin Moore, The Hunt for Bin Laden: Task Force Dagger, 2003
11:20 am on May 2nd, 2011 87
kangaji wrote:
I don’t think he whipped up the anti-American sentiment so much as rode that convenient wave into the Blue House.
T’was the chinboistas always looking for an issue that will resonate loudly with the South Korean people who whipped it up.
12:13 pm on May 2nd, 2011 88
I got a Korea-centric question regarding this. As in the SNSD song, when the SEALs went “shoot shoot shoot”, did UBL “hoot hoot hoot”?
12:56 pm on May 2nd, 2011 89
Killing Osama: The Hunt for the World’s Greatest Terrorist
This is crappy network TV two-part docu-drama all the way…
…produced to target an audience that can’t afford cable and desperately hoping to take more market share than the Home Shopping Channel on Super Sock Sale Blowout Night.
It will be filmed in 14 weeks on existing soap opera sets, leftover footage from City of Joy and Prince of Persia, and filler shots from behind a Mohave desert rest stop with a bunch of Mexican extras dressed in turbans and carrying plastic AK-47s with the orange plug in the barrel painted black with a dry erase marker.
It will be financed mostly with product placement for cola and snacks… with an assortment of government grants to include a no smoking message, no drug message, or Join the Army message.
It will build up the military with a square-jawed Gulf War One war-wary special forces hero with a Silver Star and a mysterious mistake in his past that Cost Lives but wasn’t fully his fault. He will be near retirement and hoping to redeem himself by leading an ethnically diverse team… one of which has recently gotten married.
Two weeks of training for the Big Mission will be enough.
The team will be filled with angry and hateful conflicting personalities that will suddenly be borderline gay in their affection for each other by the end of training… which will mostly consist of climbing ropes and yelling while shooting pistols… that are obviously ejecting blanks… except for the times the actors just jerk their hands and they dub in the bang sound later.
It will build up the “goverment” with strong Obama soundbites and a few caring and decisive generic government officials in key alphabet soup agencies constantly making thoughtful references to “protecting Americans”, “ensuring freedom”, and “spreading democracy”.
It will build up the CIA with a young, sincere, and idealistic agent living in harsh conditions while, by satellite phone, trying to avoid the divorce that comes with the dramatically difficult choice of dedication-to-the-Pretty-But-Neglected-Wife or the Greater-Good-of-the-Nation. SPOILER: In the end, he will accomplish both amid tears and dramatic music… and with a baby on the way, too.
It will be conspicuously positive towards Pakistan and Islam by showing a devout Muslim ISI agent, with a fetishly-conservative but definitely-funkable young wife, along with two kids who oddly-enough act comfortably American, spending long hours at personal risk searching for Osama… with an obligatory soliloquy condemning al-Quada for violence in the name of his beloved Allah-of-Peace.
Apart from some nameless and faceless generic semi-Persian/Arabic/Palestinian/Islamic thugs surrounding Osama, that will take suppressed double-taps to the head in the third act, the only other villain will be some pompous and disagreeable bureaucrat in a fictional government agency that almost blows the whole thing… and represents Inefficiency in the System… which will subtly suggest a larger and more intrusive government, more sensitive to global concerns, as the solution to the problem… and all the world’s ills.
At the end, the music will swell and the flags will wave and the women and children will smile and someone will say something like, “America always prevails” or “Freedom can’t be stopped”…
…and you will cringe inside and wish for someone who isn’t a D-list actor to show up and say, “These colors don’t run… they run OVER you, biitch!” or “Freedom isn’t free… except when it’s free to kick your azz!”… and then take a chain gun to the rest of the cast while calling in an airstrike on most of Pakistan.
But that won’t happen…
…depressing just thinking about it.
4:16 pm on May 2nd, 2011 90
“I don’t think he whipped up the anti-American sentiment so much as rode that convenient wave into the Blue House. ”
Here, I agree with Kushibo.
Roh seemed too bumbling to be a mastermind behind the elements in Korean society, especially the media and education, who stoked the fire of 2002. But overall, the Korean people as a whole were willing and ready to join with the die-hard anti-US elements who protest absolutely everything.
Roh got lucky. Then found out he’d been used and was not ready or fit for the job they helped him win.
5:05 pm on May 2nd, 2011 91
Do the hop to Van Halen’s “Dancing in the Steets”…
10:42 pm on May 2nd, 2011 92
I just wish they had nailed him back in 2001 or 2002. That would have sent a strong message about messing with the USA. The fact that he was able to live so long and so well is not a positive in all of this. But Pakistan was profiting from the situation.
10:54 pm on May 2nd, 2011 93
Steve Austin wrote:
That probably wasn’t going to happen with this attitude.
Obama set his mind and his resources where Clinton and Bush43 couldn’t or wouldn’t.
4:14 am on May 3rd, 2011 94
Pakistan did its part, says President Asif Ali Zardari in the Washington Post.
And The Kremlin welcomes the serious success achieved by the United States in the fight against international terrorism.
4:49 am on May 3rd, 2011 95
Kushibo you would be very mistaken if you don’t think the Bush administration wasn’t looking hard for Bin Laden. The intelligence that identified the courier that eventually led to Bin Laden’s location was all done prior to Obama entering the White House.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/03/bin.laden.courier/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Bin Laden would not have been found the way he was found if the courier had not been identified. During the Obama administration the intelligence agencies were finally able to locate where this guy was in Pakistan and track him back to Bin Laden’s location.
This was simply aggressive intelligence work that continued over two administrations. Where President Obama gets the credit is authorizing the raid against his hideout. That was a gutsy call that could have gone Desert One on him if it wasn’t for the skilled operators executing the mission. He was willing to take that risk to pull Bin Laden’s body out of his hideout which he should definitely get credit for.
5:06 am on May 3rd, 2011 96
I agree with GI Korea and I’ll push it even further: There would have been pressure, especially with falling poll numbers too close to an election cycle, to drop bombs or missiles on the target, and some people making reasonable arguments for such measures – like – they get their faster and with stealth and you know he is there right then.
That would probably have been the safer political move for Obama rather than risking a Carter-like failure.
But, he made the better decision. It is FAR better to have human eyes on the ground seeing a dead bin Laden. It was FAR better to gather all that intel in the building rather than blowing it up.
It was a no-brainer to take bin Laden out once found. It took some political guts to do it with men on the ground rather than stand-off weapons which have become the preferred weapon of politicans.
6:16 am on May 3rd, 2011 97
usinkorea may be right that there will be a capturing-OBL movie within 18 months, made by the people who brought us “Hurt Locker.”
But here’s the rub: They started this several years ago (Bush43 administration) and their plans to begin filming in a few months were made before OBL was caught . In fact, they will have to change how their movie goes, since he’s been captured.
But when it’s released, I wonder if usinkorea will forget the origins of the film and then rant how it took Hollywood only a couple of months to crank out a blockbuster-scale movie about this event.
11:16 am on May 3rd, 2011 98
I can’t believe GI Korea has actually agreed that Obama deserved even a small amount of credit for getting Bin Laden. That had to hurt a little. I believe that at least 85% of the Bin Laden kill goes to the Navy SEAL team that accomplished the mission, 12% goes to the intel community, and I give a measly 3% to Obama and his administration for the re-focus of assets over the last year and final decision to hit him on this mission. Well, it really doesn’t surprise me that Rush Limbaugh immediately took to the airwaves to denounce Obama on the tail of Bin Laden’s death. His blathering rant about how Obama had no part in the search and destroy mission and in fact, said that Obama has no desire to bring any terrorist to justice. Then, went on to say that Obama is anti-military. However, I still remember this same blowhard slurping up GWB’s droppings every time any accomplishment was made during the Iraq war or any terrorist being brought to justice. It never ceases to amaze me as to how the right-wing talking heads will spin every event or non-event into an accomplishment for the right and a failure for the left. Every FOX news show today did as much as possible to downplay credit for Obama on this mission as well, or they almost gagged on themselves spitting out the words to give him a slight pat on the back. One FOX “news” show (and I use that term lightly), went so far as to insinuate the credit actually belongs to Bush – WOW!!!
11:46 am on May 3rd, 2011 99
Bush43′s administration does indeed deserve some credit for this. Their aggressive roundup of al Qaeda members led to the capture of the guy who eventually led to the OBL compound. It seems the Obama administration, however, deserves credit for connecting the dots from that guy to the actual compound, something which may have come from the Obama administration stepping up the hunt for OBL.
GI Korea’s opinion notwithstanding, I think the Bush43 administration did keep looking, but it stopped being the priority it had been as the trail grew cold and it seemed less likely they’d be able to grab OBL unless he made a colossal error, and they had more pressing matters.
Obama does get credit for pushing this through, making the tough call on the type of attack that would yield the most intelligence and lead to the least amount of collateral damage (OBL’s neighbors have got to be breathing a sigh of relief that it wasn’t a missile attack) and be the most decisive way of knowing “we” got him.
The Navy SEALs who trained in a mock-up of the house for all these months and then put their lives on the line to pull off a professionally executed attack deserve the lion’s share of the credit, along with the people who actually did the intelligence homework in following the leads that hadn’t been connected before.
go2gedr, you’ll have to forgive some Republicans: Obama has gone off script by eliminating OBL. Up until now, he had been continuing Bush43′s wars and starting a third, which from my understanding was far, far bigger than Iraq or Afghanistan, and now he’s gone and done something like get Osama, which his predecessors (including Clinton) could not do. Clinton had been mocked for not getting OBL, and they were hanging Obama on the same peg, and now they’re scrambling.
Don’t worry, though, they’ll be demanding his Occidental transcripts and baptismal records again by the time this dies down.
2:21 pm on May 3rd, 2011 100
As regular readers of ROK Drop know I am not a fan of President Obama. However in this case in ordering a raid rather than a cruise missile or aircraft attack was absolutely the correct thing to do. With his body in OUR custody we have prevented his grave from becoming a shrine. Also the terrorists might not have let the world know that Osama was actually dead, the potential conspiracy theories boggle the mind. Other potential or actual terrorists know that we will come after you no matter where you are or how long it takes. I’m sure hard drives, flash drives, & other computer stuff that I don’t understand will be a treasure trove for our intelligence guys. I’m sure the Navy SEAL who plugged OBL will get quite a few drinks bought for him by his fellow SEAL’s at a bar some time in the future. All America owes these courageous warriors a debt of gratitude that can never be repaid. Their names will & a should remain a secret. I hope the President has a change of heart about the value of “enhanced interrogation” since I have no doubt that a least a part of the information that led to OBL came from EI. I wish they would have gotten him alive & thrown him in a pigsty like the scene in “Hannibal”, the sequel to “Silence of the Lambs”. I’m kind of torn as to whether the death photos should be released or not since there are pluses & negatives on both options. I’m interested on other ROK Dropper’s opinions on this. Drudge says that the photos ARE going to be released. Kushibo @2,3, lol! Dr Yu, Chickenhead, f’ing hilarious!
3:11 pm on May 3rd, 2011 101
Come on, guys.
This is all bullshyt.
Osama is certainly dead… it would be too big of black eye if he showed back up… but whatever we are being fed is very far from the truth of what happened.
In the world’s biggest story in recent years, they can’t even get their story straight.
Was he armed or unarmed, fight back or not, hide behind a wife or not, did she even die?
This isn’t fog of war. These are easy questions with easy answers from alert and professional people who were there and have a very short chain of command directly to the president.
One thing is sure. He would have been much more valuable to secretly have alive than dead. They managed to capture others but “intended” to kill him? No way. There are some high level people who are shaking their heads at this semi-failed mission being marketed as a success.
It was great they found him and great that Obama authorized the mission… but you can bet that was done to capture Osama if at all possible.
Some of this may come out publicly some day. As of now, I wouldn’t be too sure the guy who killed him is getting lots of free beer… especially if he was unarmed.
3:19 pm on May 3rd, 2011 102
“Don’t worry, though, they’ll be demanding his Occidental transcripts and baptismal records again by the time this dies down.”
That’ll be the Hillary supporters again, no doubt… Or the “Republicans” like Bloomberg or Trump…
5:28 pm on May 3rd, 2011 103
96
If you had read it closely, you would have seen that the movie they were putting together was about a failed attempt to get bin Laden and the project had stalled out. Now, if they decide to take it off the shelf and dust it off, they will likely rewrite the movie to give it a good spin. It will likely be little like the original screen play…
…and yes, if it turns out that this dead project comes alive on the big screen in the near future and is gung-ho patriotic and praises, in part, the White House for hunting bin Laden down and taking him out, it will certainly fit into my prediction.
It’s getting tiring and boring trying to grab a bar of soap in the tub with you, Kushibo…
5:32 pm on May 3rd, 2011 104
I’d like to see his academic records. That has been something candidates in previous election cycles have had the press demand they do. It stuck a pin in the buble that John Kerry was so much more an intellectual heavyweight to Bush Jr.
But, Kerry and Bush were white males. Asking for Obama to turn in his academic records is so clearly racist. Racist racist racist. Racist.
6:47 pm on May 3rd, 2011 105
@98 – I don’t know how long you have been reading this blog but this hardly an anti-Obama site. I have been critical of the birthers, positive about his NK policies, totally agreement in cutting defense spending, etc. Are you one of these people to where if you don’t agree with everything in lockstep that President Obama says then you must be anti-Obama, racist, neo-con, or whatever the latest derogatory term is to shut people up? Also Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. is infotainment and not serious analysis. Why are you even wasting your time listening to them?
6:52 pm on May 3rd, 2011 106
I’ve hated Limbaugh since I first heard him in the 1990s. I thought he was much like Robert Tilton. I gave Limbaugh a little more credit thinking he might actually be a conservative, but I felt he was a performer out to get rich and little more.
7:13 pm on May 3rd, 2011 107
@99 – I seriously doubt intelligence analysts looking for Bin Laden sat back and decided to do as much as they could to catch him because of some perception that Bush wasn’t interested in catching him. These intelligence analysts are dedicated professionals that do there jobs the best they can no matter who the President is.
The couriers name was reportedly discovered during the Bush presidency and the courier slipped up last year when he was identified by intel agents listening in on a phone call. This was all clearly a case of a accumulation of intelligence that finally led to something actionable on Bin Laden.
Also it appears that Bin Laden’s hideout was raising suspicions in his neighborhood:
8:04 pm on May 3rd, 2011 108
It is likely that in that society, that social class, and that neighborhood, Osama’s house had Noticeably Unusual Behavior.
This is not saying that everyone should have known Osama lived there. It is saying that it was likely one of the few residents where a tight-knit community was conspicuously not aware of the occupants’ history, family, and social connections.
For this reason, it is probable that it was quickly put on a shortlist of locations where Osama could be living once Abbottabad was identified as a possible location.
Considering the people, history, and income level of the area, it is reasonable to speculation that the CIA has assets from the ideologically-agreeing to the happily-paid that keep their ear to the ground in those parts.
It is also likely that a team of some sort has been working for some time within sight of Osama’s compound and has been monitoring radio traffic, listening with laser ears and parabolic dishes, trying to identify those who come and go, etc.
Possibly the only reason for this raid is that the latest release from Wikileaks contained information which revealed the capture and interrogation of people who knew Osama’s location.
Whatever the case, there were very smart and capable people working to maximize the benefit and, apart from funding approval, any involvement of politicians was an irritant and hindrance rather than so some sort of great help… and it is rather irritating to hear Obama finding thin excuses to keep saying “I” as he talks.
9:00 pm on May 3rd, 2011 109
Some reports said that the city was a possible location for other key figures. So, I’m sure it was a highly watched place. From what I read, the building was noticed soon after construction and was guessed to have been built for a high level member. The seperate tracking down of the courier helped confirm the identity of who was being protected.
The idea the Pakistani intel agencies weren’t far ahead of the US isn’t worth considering.
10:20 pm on May 3rd, 2011 110
“Al-Aqsa Mosque imam vows to avenge killing of Osama bin Laden in Youtube video. ‘Dogs should not rejoice too much for killing lions’”
Ah… but these dogs track from space and bite with gunships while the lions blow themselves up to kill a handful of civilians.
It’s better to be a live dog than a dead lion… and, maybe, better than being a live lion if that means spending all your time fretting over the politics of an Allah that will do nothing to help you… and is probably actively engaged in the destruction of your poisoned culture.
3:24 am on May 4th, 2011 111
#51,
A student asked me what I thought of it. I replied that they should have kept quiet about it just like the Israelis do, but I understand that Obama really wants to win the next elections.
5:19 am on May 4th, 2011 112
BTW…
After thinking about it…
I’m not entirely sure Osama is dead.
I think they might have just bagged him off to a secret room somewhere very far away from the Geneva Convention and the ACLU.
Then they tell him the world thinks he is dead and there is no hope. Sorry, buddy.
Then they make introductions.
“Mr. bin Laden, this is your crack medical team that will keep you alive. And this is your new best friend. Meet Mr. Waterboard.”
Between no hope, frequent waterboarding, drugs, daily 16 hours awake and 8 hours of sleep (that is actually 4) in a slightly cold room, etc., it shouldn’t take more than a couple of years to know everything he knows.
Then, they “accidentally” leave a cellphone behind in his room. A few key people get REALLY creepy calls from the broken voice of the long-dead Osama that puts the dread of Allah into everybody involved.
Of course, within hours, the receivers of those calls mysteriously vanish… only to be introduced to their medical team and Mr. Waterboard.
Repeat.
When they are no longer of value, they get ground up and fed to pigs… and the world is never any wiser.
Somehow, it seems anybody who would go to the trouble to fly across the world to shoot Osama in the head in his bedroom might just be able to do this instead.
Any takers?
9:47 am on May 4th, 2011 113
The strong horse became a weak horse, and now he’s a dead horse.
10:13 am on May 4th, 2011 114
@105: OK, you have put some positive light on Obama. Although I have been reading your blog for a few years now and just from overall assessment over that time, I have surmised that you are very right-wing conservative. Maybe not as far to the right as Glen Beck, but definitely right-wing. I am definitely left-wing but, damn sure don’t march lockstep with all that is left. In fact I’d be happy if the Dem’s would eject some of the buffoons that make them sound ridiculous when running campaigns. That being said, I do listen, watch, read from all sources to get information on political issues. I especially watch the “Right-wing extremists like Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, let’s face it…all of FOX news. I watch these because many years ago, I had some political discussions with an extreme righty who was making his points with colorful cliché’ sounding points he declared as “fact”, but couldn’t put together a solid sustained argument to prove his assertions. Kind of like SOME of the folks who comment on your blog. So, I started watching more and more of these FOX shows, listened to Limbaugh read Ann Coulter’s inane babble and found that almost every other uninformed righty were repeating verbatim, sound bites and excerpts from propaganda they took for fact. Also, I found while reading and watching these pundits that facts do not matter. If they just put it out there as fact, repeat it over and over again (Click heals together 3 times), then it will become fact to those that cannot think for themselves. I was discussing some of the right vs. left budget ideas with a conservative friend yesterday. He got pissed off because I told him that I heard his exact argument on Beck a few weeks ago and that maybe he should at least check the facts on his statements before repeating them as fact. He finally got pissed at me pointing out that he was repeating lies or statements that only told part of the story. He walked off. I think we’re still friends and hope he understands that if he wants to engage in political talk with me, I will be happy to debate the truth in his statements. If he doesn’t want to talk politics at all…I’m for that as well. Some of what he said was stuff I read in your comments section and he may very well be a contributor to your blog comments. I’ve never asked him if he does but, maybe I should.
10:26 am on May 4th, 2011 115
Chickenhead #112, Interesting theory except that OBL’s wife & other witnesses saw the SEALS shoot Mr Raghead where he wears his rag. It would have been a great plan however. I can hardly wait for the American Communist Lawyers Union (ACLU) filing some kind of a lawsuit because they didn’t read OBL his Miranda rights, shoot him while he was unarmed, targeting him for elimination, & not burying him in accordance with Islamic customs. Funny how the ACLU didn’t file a lawsuit for the people who were murdered in the twin towers, pentagon, & the flight over Pennsylvania. I don’t recall any of the terrorists being worried about burial customs for all those people. One of my youngest sons friends owns a rollerblading supplies company. Among other things they sell tee shirts. I suggested via facebook that if the government releases a death photo of OBL that he should put that on a tee shirt for sale. I told him that I would buy it as I’m sure many other people will as well.
11:37 am on May 4th, 2011 116
Tom L.,
Paintball gun, red paint, ball bearing… knocked cold as ice…
…or, much more likely, some special-purpose device and technique even more clever…
…no different than a magic trick based on a bit of technology and a lot of misdirection…
…like when a tiger vanishes on a Las Vegas stage in front of a thousand attentive and skeptical observers…
…with, in this case, a perfect witness… a mentally shook-up and physically injured woman who was guided to think she saw what she was intended to see… and then conveniently released to report it to “allies” who would quickly echo “the cruelty of Americans” to the world press.
The more I think about this and the more the “truth” comes out, I am getting more and more sure the appearance of his death was staged.
There was one other person taken with him… but there is some conflict as to that one being alive or dead… an imperfection in the plan, perhaps.
The operation didn’t go perfectly and there are some other sides to the story coming out… and, mixed with propaganda and misinformation, will continue to come out.
There are layers and layers of reality here from several groups with conflicting and overlapping goals.
The key is to filter out the noise and construct the closest approximation to reality possible based on facts, possibilities, probabilities, and inevitability.
Very heavy computers help me do that sort of thing.
As of now, I am going to work under the assumption that Osama was captured alive and “witnesses” were led to believe he was killed so they would spread the word.
Obama is no more… to the world… but he is still around… and over the next year, if one looks closely and correctly in the right places, his shadow will be seen… (formerly) secret bases bombed, key terrorist figures struck by a drone, sympathetic-to-al-Qaeda government officials in various countries dead of food poisoning or car accidents. etc.
As of now, this theory is every bit as plausible as a team being sent in to, according to witnesses, capture him alive and then suddenly kill him for no reason while they just happen to kinda see.
I don’t buy it.
It is much like watching Fukushima. No matter what the engineers, government officials, professors, and pundits say, the actions of those doing the work are the real indicators of the situation.
In this case, Obama is technically dead… and you can cheer that. In a deeper layer of reality, he is very much alive…
…and that will soon start to affect the world in a very quiet way.
I am not saying this is fact… so my tinfoil hat is not yet on… but I am saying this is a more reasonable theory than the official story.
11:40 am on May 4th, 2011 117
Well, you got me skeptical now, CH.
I suppose Corsi will be at his publisher’s for the next several days with a Magic Marker, changing the title of his would-be best seller to “Where’s the Birth DEATH Certificate?!”
11:40 am on May 4th, 2011 118
That would have made more sense if the strike tag had worked (over the word Birth).
12:01 pm on May 4th, 2011 119
Maybe he’s alive. Maybe he’s dead. I don’t care.
Until we get serious in this country about actually _solving_ problems vs. creating a new bureaucracy to “address” them, we’re just going to get more problems…
6:30 pm on May 4th, 2011 120
OK. Major credit drop for Obama in my book – if this is true.
It is a long article from a purported insider who is leaking details of how things went down at the top level. To me, it takes away most of the credit Obama gets for the raid. It boosts Hillary significantly in my mind. It also boosts Penetta – someone from Pres. Clinton’s office I never have liked much at all.
The article describes an Obama that also seems to come out clearly in how his administration has dealt with Libya and recent events across the Middle East. He describes him as unwilling to commit or lead within his own team and of dithering. It also portrays him as listening to one offical on mostly political ground against the advice of the rest of his team.
6:39 pm on May 4th, 2011 121
The supposed insider describes the bold decision to send in commandos rather than drop bombs as a delaying tactic by the one key player inside the admin resisting attacking the compound and Obama who kinda sided with her over all the others.
The idea stated is that when almost all the key foreign policy players started revolting against Obama’s indecision, the lone naysayer came up with the idea of saying only a ground operation would be appropriate because she felt it would take enough time to set one up that things could be done to turn the tide against those pressing for action.
But, Penetta had already got things in motion for a ground mission without any of the others knowing about it. And when Obama and the holdout said they would be agreeable to a ground operation but it was to be Penetta’s call as to if one would happen or not, Penetta gave the order to go – but when the holdout heard about it, she had Obama stop it.
6:43 pm on May 4th, 2011 122
10:02 pm on May 4th, 2011 123
USinKorea…
Very, very interesting.
There were a couple of points that didn’t ring quite true… through intent or misunderstanding… but, overall, it sounds plausible.
And it certainly fits with new seemingly-true information that the video link was down when Osama was killed.
This strengthens my belief that Osama was taken alive under the independent direction of the CIA. The fewer people who know about this, the better… so President Obama is completely out of the loop on this.
On a related note, in a time of increasing global conflict and economic instability, the number of vacations and golf outings made by President Obama has been insulting.
Leadership by example allows the led to overlook some mistakes in leadership. Obama doesn’t even act like he is trying. Instead, he seems to be milking his position for all he can in terms of personal enjoyment… and flaunting the ability to do so.
It is increasingly possible to see Obama pressured to drop out of the next election for contrived personal reasons while Shrillery, with an increasing power base, beats out all the Republican nobodies for the office of president.
10:37 pm on May 4th, 2011 124
I think bin Laden is dead and was buried at sea. I’ll need substantial evidence to begin to think otherwise.
I don’t so much mind the vacations and golf – except this last time. I don’t think you go play some golf in the hours leading up this historic event. Shoot some hoops on the White House court. Putt on a putting green (if it’s still there) to releave tension. But, you don’t go play golf —- unless it is true you didn’t know it was going to happen…
If this is true, I’d expect other sources to start to confirm it (off the record) in the next few weeks. There are too many people involved – too many staffers around – and too many of them will not be happy with Obama and this Jarrett if it’s true. Especially if Obama loyalists and the media go all out to make this event a campaign item – Obama’s great victory as commander in chief.
Bush’s team apparently frayed in the build up over Iraq War II, and ultimately staffers in different areas of the government took the battles to the press, just like this one sources has.
I’ll need to see more people confirming this, though, before I think it really counts…
11:26 pm on May 4th, 2011 125
USinKorea,
“I think bin Laden is dead and was buried at sea. I’ll need substantial evidence to begin to think otherwise.”
Think about what you are saying here.
You are willing to believe Osama was captured, killed, and buried at sea… completely on faith and with absolutely no evidence… but you “need substantial evidence to begin to think otherwise”.
My theory, also without evidence, is that Ossama was captured, pretended to be killed, and carted off to a secret cell somewhere.
Ignoring official stories, both of these theories have the same amount of evidence in support of them… except my theory makes a lot more sense… especially as motive, means, and opportunity were all in abundance.
I’m not insisting you are wrong and I am right here… I can only try to sort publicly available truths, lies, and half-truths, through a filter of common sense and understanding of motivations and human nature.
I may well be wrong… so I am very interested in any reasons why my theory is inferior to the official story.
11:32 pm on May 4th, 2011 126
I agree with your assessment of our two views. I’ll go with the official statement until given a good reason not to.
Part of the reason why being that too many people are involved to risk lying like this – and the lie too big to risk.
If they just captured him, then why report it?
It would have been easier to deny any attack took place or say they just went after high level people but not bin Laden?
There wasn’t enough to gain by faking a claim of death vs the risk and liklihood of getting caught.
2:35 am on May 5th, 2011 127
USinKorea,
“Part of the reason why being that too many people are involved to risk lying like this”
Perhaps very few people knew… and those who did would do a good job of keeping the secret… as has already been demonstrated for the time it took to prepare this operation.
…and everybody in Washington that absolutely doesn’t need to know has no idea… including President Obama. This is the CIA’s baby… and they will simply use this information to provide the president options without telling him how they got it.
“and the lie too big to risk.”
This made sense at first… then I realized it doesn’t matter. If it gets exposed, especially after they get all the intel from him, there is really no downside. It just puts an even larger fear into other Jihadists. They aren’t going to hate America even more… and anything the can do, they will do anyway.
Everything else can be managed with another layer of lies and misdirections that, no matter how suspect, will be unprovable one way or another.
Obama will take the international heat, explain to an approving American public why it was done “on his authorization”, and how (even with exposure) it will “save American lives… and don’t forget to re-elect me”.
“If they just captured him, then why report it?”
Al-Qaeda would have noticed him missing. Now, he is missing… but nobody knows he is missing. Clever, eh?
Plus America gets to show flexed muscles and it gives a good excuse to declare victory an Afghanistan and direct those resources elsewhere… less the permanent bases we leave behind.
Any flaws in all that logic?
I was spring cleaning all morning and afternoon and the more I think about this, the more it seems like a certainty. At least I’m talking myself into it. Anybody want to talk me out of it?
The only thing they might have done better is to have steath-bombed the grid square after pulling out.
No doubt, the wreckage of the stealth helicopter is on its way to China… and the scene left behind will be picked apart by forensic scientists who may or may not draw the conclusions they are intended to draw.
The government of Pakistan and Osama’s neighbors might have considered that plan a little over the top, though.
Come on, USinKorea isn’t the only smart guy around here. Tear my theory apart!
6:48 am on May 5th, 2011 128
Interesting ChickenHead. Like the Military/Government never lied to me before.
Anywho, that will not stop the popularity of this NEW DRINK.
The “Bib Ladin”. Two shots & a splash of water. Name your own Caliber for the shots.
I expect the “death photo” in about two years.
8:37 am on May 5th, 2011 129
I’m still not moved, but here is something that would work in Chickenhead’s favor with his theory:
25 minutes out of a 40 minute firefight is an eternity.
There is more:
Then there is analysis by the blog that posted the quotes that fits my feeling of what might happen if Obama and his allies try to build a patriotic wave from this event to ride into a 2nd term:
I am certain Hillary is no die-hard Obama supporter. Panette has a longer history with the Clinton’s than Obama, though Obama has given him big jobs he many thought didn’t fit his background and put faith in him. Gates and the others are probably professionals first, political animals second. But professionals can chaff when officials trump professionalism with cheap politics.
It has to be tempting for Obama and his political team (and the media and Hollywood) to build up this event as much as humanly possible to convince independents Obama is a military genius and excellent commander in chief. But, there are clearly risks.
Bush had skeletons coming out of his admin’s closet due to pressure over conflicting opinions on Iraq War II. It might be interesting to see what shakes out of Obama’s admin during the upcoming election cycle.
Something tells me Obama does not have the same level of loyalty on his crew as Clinton had going into his reelection bid.
Time will tell.
9:05 am on May 5th, 2011 130
You know, this is curious.
This timeline at the NYT blog is a little different from another I read, but not about the more recent dates.
Mid-February.
The supposed insider’s claims I quoted yesterday included:
Weeks would put it in March or April.
And what else happened recently?
A week ago, Obama announced he’s going to play musical chairs with all these people who were pushing for taking the compound in Pakistan out.
If it is true Obama and Jarette did not know Panetta had the CIA and the SEALs planning and practicing the raid in Afghanistan — that Obama and Jarette were hoping that organizing a raid would take time with the idea they could maneuvre to skuttle the whole thing at some point —-
then the announcment of removing all these people and giving them new jobs is HIGHLY interesting.
And it could explain any resentment that Panette MIGHT have.
Imagine it: You have been working hard for 2 years to get set up and trusted within the CIA as an original outsider. You are working in arguably the most important org for preventing terrorist attacks and fighting the global war on terror. And you are just about to quaterback one of the BIGGEST operations in the org and nation’s history —- and your president (to mix sports metaphors) calls time and comes out to the mount to tell he’s warming up the bullpen and you know he hopes to get you out of the game so he can thrwart that historic intelligence win…
Panetta is the current head of the CIA and the one said to have been the leader in making this event happen.
Patreaus is the top military guy in Afghanistan and would have been key in putting Panetta’s hopes into practice – like getting the mockup compound build and the SEAL team prepared for the mission.
Gates is a former CIA chief and career intel professional, not a politican.
Hillary was already said to have been flabbergasted with Obama over Libya and the Arab Spring to the point she wants out of her job.
And a week before this raid did end up taking place, Obama announces that all of them are gone or moved out of their jobs.
Very intersting…
10:25 am on May 5th, 2011 131
USinKorea,
The REAL drama is not what happened in Pakistan.
11:24 am on May 5th, 2011 132
Chickenhead, you ought to write a novel, it would be great. It would be very interesting if your theory ends up being the truth.
12:45 pm on May 5th, 2011 133
The opposition must strip away any political victory Obama might get from this, and the most effective way to do it is the tried-and-true method of niggling nitpicks that erode the positive feeling that emerged following the news. If the facts aren’t on your side, then get an “insider” who can cook up and dish out innuendo.
Maybe it’s true, maybe it’s not. But I’ve been reading the same people who hailed and later defended Bush43′s “Mission Accomplished” event now trying to rip this apart with a thousand paper cuts.
Maybe it will work. Maybe it’s not necessary (as I mentioned, Bush41 lost re-election about the same time later after reaching stratospheric levels of approval). Maybe it’s wrong-headed (folks like my mom — who always votes Republican — are teetering toward re-electing Obama because of the way the right goes after him).
This stuff with shuffling Panetta doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Him moving to Defense is a direct result of Gates retiring, and he’s leaving in the summer, not now. Panetta wasn’t about to be moved away or anything.
Also, I don’t buy that he’s a Hillary loyalist. He’s not running for president or anything and Bill Clinton is out of the picture, while Hillary is unlikely to run before 2016, so what would he need to backstab his boss for? It’s not as if devotion to the Clintons over all else is written in stone… look at Bill Richardson.
No, I’m not carrying Obama’s water. I did not vote for the guy in the primaries or the general election (and I won’t even consider voting for him unless the KORUS FTA passes). I just don’t like the way direction our national discourse is going in where speculation and innuendo trumps all else, especially when it is geared toward whipping people up for the advancement of partisan groups.
1:49 pm on May 5th, 2011 134
How does that work? Mission Accomplished (an idea of Gen. Franks at the time) might be compared to Obama’s address to the nation after the killing or his going to ground zero, but what I’ve speculated about concerns whether or not Obama was instrumental in staging this raid or not.
He has taken the bulk of the credit for this event. If it is true that he was mostly against it but drug his feet until Panetta and others put it in motion behind his back — it is a far, far cry from some little bickering papercut…
1:55 pm on May 5th, 2011 135
Because, the question is how much of the victory credit does he deserve?
I gave him credit for making a tough call, because it could have backfired on him. But even then, he did what a high percentage of presidents (democrat or republican) would have done in the similar situation.
And despite the lack of credit giving in his speech, the machinery that made the mission and its sucees possible was set in place many years before Obama took office.
This is obvious.
But this victory will turn into a personal defeat for Obama if it turns out that Panetta and others did go behind his back to set this up then had to brow beat him into agreeing for either a ground operation or airstrike.
That part is speculative.
2:07 pm on May 5th, 2011 136
Gates retiring: Anytime someone pulls out 2 years into a first term, it is worth considering. Gates is a Bush hold-over, so that is a reasonable guess why he is retiring now, but that does not mean there can’t be more at play in the timing than just wanting out for average reasons.
Pulling Penetta out of CIA after 2 years to replace him also isn’t a no-brainer and is worth consideration. It creates instability in a key org in the war on terror. Not having a military background (as a soldier or politician) means he won’t actually hit the ground running there either, though he seems to have acquitted himself well enough at CIA with no intel background.
But, his background does not scream, “I’m so clearly the correct choice for Defense.”
Especially since Patraeus has proven himself valuable and is kinda familiar with how the military works…
So, yes, there were curious things about the cabinet shakeup before bin Laden got sent to his maker.
The fact the shakeup was announced just before the operation to get bin Laden was lost — is most certainly worth considering.
Given the amount of time it takes to make the decision to replace people and decide who you want in the jobs, the whole time the bin Laden raid was under preparation, Obama was looking to move around all the key people involved.
That doesn’t make much sense to me. It doesn’t sound like the smart thing to do. Maybe he can explain it well, but I don’t see it right now.
But it does make some sense if the unnamed (and unverified or corroborated) insider is real and telling the truth…
2:08 pm on May 5th, 2011 137
From the moment it was announced, a bunch of folks went into overdrive going, “How can we take this away from him?” And they’ve come up with all the little speculations and innuendo you are freely throwing out there as “might” have happened.
I don’t know what he’s doing to “take the bulk of the credit” for this when he’s made it clear this was the doing of many people who risked their lives. Didn’t he even acknowledge President Bush43 and Clinton?
That’s another thing that happens (and both sides do it, which is why I don’t read Huffington Post unless someone points to something specific): partisan news control means making sure your audience doesn’t hear a different point of view, so that you can control the message.
Frankly, I think everyone should listen or watch PBS Newshour instead of MSNBC, Fox News, etc.
You mean this lack of credit…
2:18 pm on May 5th, 2011 138
usinkorea, because of his role in the US Congress and his role as Chief of Staff, Panetta’s name was bandied about as a replace for Sec Defense even before he was the CIA Director. He knows his defense issues, he knows the political landscape and how to maneuver through it, and he is considered a responsible but effective cost cutter. Now, some of those things might not actually be true, but in Democratic and moderate Republican circles, he’s highly regarded for those things. So much so that his move to Defense as Gates is leaving is almost a no-brainer. The speculation that he’s not right for this and it seems suspicious that he’s being pushed over there NOW is so absurd that if you heard that in some sort of “news” venue you should sue them for punditry malpractice.
2:26 pm on May 5th, 2011 139
And while you’re right that Tommy Franks claimed responsibility for the “Mission Accomplished” sign (why not speculation that that might not be true… didn’t the White House acknowledge that they were asked to provide the sign, even though it was the Navy’s idea?), I referred to the “Mission Accomplished” event, which included George W. Bush declaring that “major combat operations in Iraq have ended.” Or did Tommy Franks force him to say that, too?
2:41 pm on May 5th, 2011 140
Hold on, I get what’s happening here. The right-wing punditry and conspiracy workers are going overtime to save themselves the embarrassment of what happened to the supposedly leftist mainstream media after the “Mission Accomplished” event.
You see, Bush had the banner and he declared major combat operations over, and the supposedly leftist media gushed about Bush being a hero:
Of course, we all know what happened later. At the time of the “end of major combat operations in Iraq,” there had been 139 military pesonnel killed. Now, eight years later, the number has reached THIRTY TIMES that number.
The supposedly leftist mainstream media offered nary a doubtful combat about Bush43′s victory and effusively praised his heroism and wartime command. Perhaps prematurely.
And so the right-wing punditry and conspiracy works simply doesn’t want to have egg on their face like the supposedly leftist mainstream media. So instead of praising Obama for making this a priority and then making some tough choices that could have backfired à la Carter (Democrats tend to get treated more harshly for military failures than Republicans do), they are preemptively questioning the whole thing so they won’t be embarrassed later when it really does fall apart.
Just as major combat operations were not really over, Osama might not really be dead. Or something worse, like Osama’s sons getting revenge and creating an even more evil terror network. I don’t know… something!
Meanwhile, Obama shouldn’t so giddily tell us the War on Terror is over just because one Islamist got offed (oh, wait, he warned us precisely about that!).
2:42 pm on May 5th, 2011 141
BS. He was in Congress but he was not on intel or defense-related committees.
I’m not going to go around and around with you on this or the Mission Accomplished incident. As I said the other day, it becomes like trying to grad the soap in the tub.
As before, I’ll stand by what I’ve written so far.
3:13 pm on May 5th, 2011 142
I guess calling me evasive is better than admitting you might be wrong that the supposedly leftist mainstream media is a bunch of Obama cheerleaders who would never gush about Bush or carry water for him.
3:24 pm on May 5th, 2011 143
One thing is for sure.
Obama is NOT presidential and the media, both left and right, is starting to portray him as such.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/05/us-binladen-clinton-allergy-idUSTRE7442C420110505
He looks like the spaz kid watching the cool kids play a video game.
Being the smallest guy in the room and hunched in the corner is not really shocking… but having that be the picture that even the liberal media is running with is.
Now, everybody calm down for a while and watch what happens. The truth won’t be “clear” but it can be narrowed down quite a bit.
There has always been a nagging suspicion that Obama is little more than a puppet following the wishes of Reid, Pelosi, and others… and he is obviously in over his head in dealing with experienced foreign heads of state… and he has little real skill or experience in doing anything but sucking up to those above him and making emotional speeches.
This must be terribly resented by those who are smarter and more experienced… starting from Shrillery and working on down to the secretaries.
They are going to use him. And if he stops being useful or starts to get in the way, they will screw him over or bypass him altogether… and there is little his team of small-time Chicago community organizers or leftist academic advisers can do about it except put up and shut up so they can continue to be allowed their fancy titles while the experienced Washington insiders quietly run the real show…
…which, despite a shocking violation of the spirit of the Constitution, is probably for the best in this case.
Without question, Obama wants another 4 years of golf and taxpayer-funded international red carpet vacations… so, likely, there will be lots of “I authorized blah blah blah” speeches in the years ahead… but the real shots will be called by a group of experienced politicians who, if they haven’t done it already, will sit Obama down and say, “STFU and do as you are told.”
Watch how things go down and what things come about over the next few months and, with this idea in mind, see if there is a new dimension of clarity in why things are as they are.
And ignore the “experts”… as they only tell enough truth to make their misrepresentations seem believable.
3:25 pm on May 5th, 2011 144
usinkorea wrote:
I’m going to have to concede that I flubbed on Panetta’s résumé.
Although I stand by what I said that Panetta was and is an obvious choice to replace SecDef Gates, such that shuffling him to the Pentagon does not provide evidence of Panetta-Obama friction or backstabbing or conspiracy or whatever, on looking up some stuff I think I got wrong why pundits in 2009 and now in 2011 were saying Panetta would be good to head Defense in this time when someone savvy about the political process who is a centrist budget cutter would be a good fit. His time as Chief of Staff put him in touch with military and intelligence issues, not really his time in Congress (apparently).
That time in Congress gave him savvy about the political process and, in 2009, his work as Chief of Staff gave him just enough credibility to get his foot in the door. Now as budget issues loom, someone with his knowledge and experience base — including as director of CIA when the two functions often overlap — would be a smart choice for heading the Pentagon.
By the way, regarding Panetta loyalty to Clinton, then former Chief of Staff Panetta suggested back in 1998 that if the allegations against Clinton were true, he should step down and let a President Gore reboot the White House’s message. That strikes me as someone loyal to the government, the people, or the party over a flawed man in charge of it.
Simply put, it points to conspiracy theories about Panetta and Obama so at odds that they’re trying to undermine the other as being a bit suspect. It smacks more of bring-Obama-down propagandized speculation than anything else, at this point.
3:30 pm on May 5th, 2011 145
What is it with the Obama-plays-golf-all-the-time meme? He’s been president for 120 weeks and has played golf (I’ve read) sixty times. That’s once every two weeks on average.
Even once a week would be reasonable, methinks, as long as he’s not also bowling, playing tennis every day, weeding a ranch three days a week, etc., etc.
5:42 pm on May 5th, 2011 146
I don’t see Palin, Trump, Huckabee, or Gingrich beating Obama. I could see maybe Romney, but that’s because he is a RINO who votes with the Democrats half the time. Obama will be the clear favorite since there aren’t any electable GOP candidates.
5:49 pm on May 5th, 2011 147
Palin could and Trump, not likely. Gingrich could if he keeps his temper in check.
Huckabee definitely could. Romney can, but only if he doesn’t run away from his own universal health care plan.
Remember, right now none of them is the Republican nominee. Once they are, their stature grows, and they start to be seen as being on something of an equal plane with Obama. At that point it’s their ideas, delivery, and background that are scrutinized to see if there’s anything too unlikeable about them, which is why Palin and Trump likely cannot win. Huckabee is eminently likable, and so is Romney. Gingrich not so much, but he has enough experience behind him and enough good ideas in his head to come across as statesman like.
Who I vote for would depend on how the KORUS FTA turns out, what the real plans are for health care (“Repeal Obamacare!” is not an actual plan), and for balancing the budget. I would vote for Obama over Palin or Trump in a heartbeat, but I would have to think long and hard between Obama and some of the others.
Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s arse if someone is a “RINO.” As a moderate, I’d prefer the RINOs over the right-wing nutjobs who seem not to understand how health economics work or who think that festering social problems aren’t really such a big deal as long as “I’ve got mine.” RINOs may not win primaries, but they win national elections.
6:05 pm on May 5th, 2011 148
I’ve been waiting to see the “theories” developed. Not surprised though because I heard there is an increasing national shortage of tinfoil.
Here is my contribution to the “news”.
It was all planned to be part of the build up to the 2012 campaign. One of Obama’s shadow advisors is a rap industry mogul named Russel Simmons. He told Obama that in order to reignite the minority and youth enthusiasm for the next election he needed to certify his ‘street cred.’ Now that Obama has his kill, production can start on summer music and video hits praising him.
You got that from your reliable source here first. Run with it!
6:23 pm on May 5th, 2011 149
Meh just more tin foil hat stuff. Sooner or later some will make some reference to a one world government or whatnot.
Personally the only Republican I can see having a chance at defeating Obama is Olympia Snow, and I really don’t think she’s willing to deal with the headache that is the Republican party right now.
The right is too twisted around itself, entirely too focused on hate, anger and fear, and blatantly controlled by monetary interests. At least the lefts make an effort to maintain the facade that their working for the betterment of the nation.
6:48 pm on May 5th, 2011 150
someotherguy, both parties are plagued by dry rot owing to their monied connections that they need in order to be re-elected. Not all Dems and Repubs are hopelessly tainted and corrupt, however. Even some who know they need corporate or union money in order to get elected would love nothing more than to reform the system. It has happened in the past.
End private funding of campaigns, at least beyond such a low level (say, $200) that they aren’t dominated by the deep pockets who only seek to deepen them further. Public campaign financing and blocks of free airtime (after all, don’t we the people own the airwaves?) in exchange for the broadcast licenses. Divvy those out to candidates who demonstrate a basic level of public support.
It won’t solve all the problems — corruption always find a way — but it can diminish its power and influence. Maybe we can start paying down the debt when our decisions about what to pay for are much less clouded by politicians voting in favor of their biggest supporters’ interests.
As for Olympia Snowe, that will simply never happen. She is not only considered RINO #1 by Republicans on the right side of the Republican median (i.e., the ones who are more likely to vote their interests effectively in the primaries), but she is also a target to be “primaried” (i.e., removed from office by posting a far-right candidate in the nomination process). This is not a foolproof strategy (the good Senator from Alaska can attest to that), but it can be effective.
In short, it will be a cold day in hell before Snowe is on the GOP ticket.
7:47 pm on May 5th, 2011 151
#149 Someotherguy, I must have missed a few things along the way. (wouldn’t be the first time)
“entirely too focused on hate, anger and fear,” Question: Where? Not on Fox. Not on Fox Business.
I have seen it on shows such as “The View”. Whoopi Goldberg was a trip when she thru the Race Card last week. Oreily played the clip.
I wonder if this “hate, anger and fear” is simply a mirrior effect the left uses. They accuse the right of what they themselves feel.
I hear them accuse Beck often of this, but I’ve been watching for a couple a years now and haven’t seen it.
So point me to were you hear this, as I’m curious to know.
8:03 pm on May 5th, 2011 152
The View, O’Reilley Factor, Beck, that guy on MSNBC, etc., etc. None of them focus enough on things of substance, and instead they play clips of each other’s shows as a substitute for real news.
The only excuse that The View or The Daily Show have is that, well, they are meant as entertainment programs. O’Reilly, Beck, and the MSNBC guy are on what are supposed to be “news” networks.
This is a very serious problem for our society.
I recommend listening or watching PBS Newshour for a better, more substantive, and considerably less partisan analysis of what’s going on.
Speaking of Newshour, here’s a nice long interview Jim Lehrer had with Leon Panetta following the killing of OBL. It might seem a bit incredulous to some of the conspiracy theorists, though, as Leon Panetta refers to President Obama’s action as “courageous decision by the president.”
8:24 pm on May 5th, 2011 153
I wrote:
I flubbed my own sentence. I meant to write: “Palin and Trump, not likely.”
11:10 pm on May 5th, 2011 154
#152 Kushibo, that didn’t answer my question. Where is the hate, fear and anger?
But it did bring up another question. How are Beck and Oreilly “a very serious problem for our society”?
Thanks to Beck I know their IS a George Soros. Oreilly is more entertainment with news thrown in at the beginning. In fact Oreilly and Jon Steward often seem to be doing the same show, as they play off each other. Dennis Miller is often a guest on Oreilly. He is an ex-liberal. (I loved Bordello of Blood)
Oh, the news reporting on Fox doesn’t seem to be lacking. At the least it isn’t bent to the left as NPR seems to be. Didn’t NPR fire Juan Williams for giving his honest opinion on “triditional muslim attire” while flying? Um, YES they did. Now Juan Williams (Liberal) works for Fox. I disagree with him most of the time but it is good to have his insights as well.
I’ll have to look into PBS sometime. Is it as non-partisan as Oreilly? I often think he is a bit liberal off and on. After all, he did go to Harvard.
Did you see the GOP debates in SC? Herman Cain came out on top. I like Gary Johnson but he has no chance. Doesn’t have the “look” that will get votes. Ron Paul remains a joke, for many reasons. One being that he also doesn’t have the needed “look”. Doesn’t have any shoulders either. Makes skinny Obama look like a Greek God. I wonder if that means that I hate Ron Paul? The left is constantly saying the right hates Obama.
I guess these days that if you don’t like, disagree with or are against what an individual stands for in politics, it is automatically a personal hate of said individual. That is unfortunate but a “tactic” that has worked. After all, Whoopie felt impowered to throw the Race Card, which is also a “tactic” that has worked.
Oh, and Obama is a Sociialiist. That is not an insult. That is a political view point held by Obama. Just ask Joe the Plumber. Rather, watch the video. Congrats to Obama for killing Osama. I was pleased. He has come along way and learned alot. At the end of his term, he just might be a better man. But, and here is MY fear, I don’t see the country being a better country.
11:32 pm on May 5th, 2011 155
I made a Youtube video to discuss this situation.
I need to work on my presentation but I think my message is clear and on-target.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D4FYugWUGRKc%26feature%3Demail&feature=email&v=4FYugWUGRKc&gl=KR
1:07 am on May 6th, 2011 156
Retired GI wrote:
Um, I wasn’t answering a question of yours, was I? The person who mentioned “hate, fear, and anger” was some other guy. In fact, that was someotherguy.
I think that’s pretty clear in the comment you got that from. But since you omitted “the MSNBC guy” from the reference, that might be a good place for you to start.
I knew there was a George Soros when he helped tank the Korean exchange rate in 1998.
Again, the difference between Jon Stewart and Bill O’Reilly is that the latter works under the pretense of being on a “news” network.
And again, my criticism is directed at the left as well as the right. The fracturing of social discourse into little echo chambers that try to scream past each other or distort the other side is detrimental to our republic.
It is good that they have him there. And it is would be good for NPR to have more conservative voices on (I don’t know if they do, since I don’t listen to them except for “Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me” and the 7:00 a.m. news roundup while I’m running.
I’m not talking about all of PBS, since I don’t listen/watch all of it. My statement covers PBS Newshour, which tends to focus on lengthy discussions with, say, Paul Ryan instead of just soundbites from Paul Ryan.
Bill O’Reilly, I would agree, seems to be becoming more nonpartisan or moderate. He apparently supported the public option, for example.
3:08 am on May 6th, 2011 157
Credibility — I did just a little looking about the White House Insider quoted earlier in the thread, and I downgrade the credibility a good bit. I always stated “if” it were true, but after reading some of the other stuff he has supposedly claimed, I have more doubts.
That is exactly how the fabulist work: They surround things that sound plausible with a peppering of details (often firsthand) and larger, even outrageous, claims, which seem more credible due to the details and true statements.
This is the previous claim that stood out for me:
Sounds too good to be true, but so was the tape of Obama talking about clinging to gun and religion in flyover country.
But, more than that, it would be fairly easy for the other staffers, especially Michelle, to remember this event and figure out who the leak is and then plug it…
So, I have my doubts now this Panetta vs Jarrett story will gain any 2nd or 3rd sources…
4:23 am on May 6th, 2011 158
Y’all like conspiracy theories? How’s this: that whole Navy Seals thing is just a cover story. Obama went over there and took bin Laden out personally.
6:12 am on May 6th, 2011 159
Kushibo is right that the PBS Newshour is a good program though I had to cringe a bit yesterday. They had some Yale history professor on there with Jim Lehrer talking about if the positive press from the successful Bin Laden killing will propel President Obama to re-election. The Yale professor claimed that Harry Truman had sky high poll numbers after dropping the atomic bomb and ending World War II, but then went on to lose the next election. Jim Lehrer then jumped in to say that Harry Truman is the only person to leave the White House after that election defeat with lower approval ratings than the former President Bush.
This is of course all wrong. Harry Truman is actually well known for his come from behind victory in the 1948 election and the iconic picture of him holding the Chicago Tribune newspaper that says Dewey Defeats Truman.
The 1952 election is the one that Truman cancelled his re-election campaign because of his deep unpopularity stemming from the Korean War. The Korean War was sold as a quick police action that turned into a protracted fight that cost the lives of 35,000 Americans not to mention all the Koreans and UN soldiers that died as well. Is it any wonder why he left office more unpopular than President Bush?
Regardless I was just surprised a Yale professor and Lehrer got such basic history wrong. Overall though the PBS Newshour is still the best evening newscast because it doesn’t resort to the info-tainment you see on the other networks.
6:24 am on May 6th, 2011 160
Glans,
“Obama went over there and took bin Laden out personally.”
Impossible. There is no golf course.
Points of interest here…
Grabbing Obama off the golf course to tell him the Osama operation was starting can say many thing… and none of them are good.
It could mean he was not told about it until it was in action… meaning he is not really on top of things and in charge.
Or it could mean that he just didn’t give a funk… and, despite the largest event in his presidency unfolding, he stilll went and played golf.
Reagan might have been able to get by with this. Everybody else looks like a tool.
Whatever the case, a president must hold himself to a high standard.
With a poor economy, high inflation and unemployment, falling housing prices, soaring debt, etc., spending a lot of time on the golf course is NOT leading by example… and, worse, it is rubbing it into the faces of all American citizens…
…but then, Obama has done it before… like when he said, “If you’re a family trying to cut back, you might skip going out to dinner, or you might put off a vacation,” followed by Moochelle and the kids going off to a luxury ski hotel in Vail… where she neither skipped going out to dinner nor did she follow any of the diet recommendations she was trying to push off on the public.
They certainly do like their expensive vacations.
USinKorea,
I agree.
That incident sounds like it could reflect her deep thinking, based on her past speaking and actions (not being proud of America, over-fretting over racism, etc)…
…but far too petty for most politicians to put into actions… even her.
It rings of an embellished third-hand story…
…though I can see lots of people saying something funny like that…
…and wouldn’t really fault her for saying it very privately.
7:19 am on May 6th, 2011 161
#156 Kushibo, so you’re walking back abit on your statement that Oreilly and Beck are a “serious problem for our society” it seems.
Both did praise Obama for killing Osama. You don’t praise someone you “hate” when they do what you feel is the correct action.
Since I have learned about people (george soros being only one) that you already knew, we can say accurately that Beck puts out the facts as you know them to be. Yes?
After all, I am but a retired GI. My News comes from Fox and its business channel.
7:23 am on May 6th, 2011 162
Exactly. And that is one of the items that lent credibility to the tale that Panetta and others set things up behind his back.
7:29 am on May 6th, 2011 163
I disagree. I think it is like Canadian national news – able to control its content to the point it can front objectivity. The main US news used to be able to do that when there was just CBS, NBC, and ABC and people got their TV from an antenna.
I think PBS has been able to maintain the facade due to small market and an overwhelmingly liberal viewer audience.
A larger audience would bring more scrutiny and it would require more competition to maintain viewers. As it is, PBS is smaller but better able to control content internally.
11:06 am on May 6th, 2011 164
Retired GI wrote:
Retired GI, I don’t know if it is on purpose or you just didn’t get what I’m saying (and that wouldn’t necessarily be your fault), but you are picking out a few words you found in my sentences back in #152 and missing the meaning.
I did not say “They are” (O’Reilly and Beck) a serious problem; I said “This is” a serious problem for our society, referring to supposed “news” programs playing clips of each other’s shows and going after the other personalities, as a substitute for real news and substantive and non-partisan analysis of what’s going on.
Moreover, and I think you missed this point as well, I indicted the other side for the same problem with the same types of shows. And this is the serious problem, where that whole collective lot of shows, on both left and right, fracture social discourse into little echo chambers that try to scream past each other or distort the other side, and is thus detrimental to our republic, perhaps in ways we don’t fully realize yet.
If you think my comment is just about Beck and O’Reilly, you’re not getting it.
Retired GI, you’re mixing up what I said with what someotherguy said (maybe in #149). I blame everyone in the infonews racket for the fracturing of society; whether that is “hate” is not something I addressed here.
At any rate, you can grudgingly praise someone even though you loathe them otherwise. I spent my summer in 2004 registering people to vote so we could get rid of Bush43, but I could say more than a few very praiseworthy things about the man.
Hmm… that’s quite a jump. I knew about Soros back in 1998 and you learned about him recently from Beck, ergo what Beck says about Soros must be true and accurate?
George Soros helped tank the Korean exchange rate in 1998, which was all about making a buck for him. When it became profitable to help shore up the Korean economy and prevent its collapse, he went in that direction.
For Beck, Soros is a bogeyman, just as the left sees the Koch Brothers as the bogeyman. Me, I see any monied interest that sticks its hand in our politics as a detriment to our republic. On both sides. I’ll repeat that again, since you seem to miss that again and again: on both sides.
Well, my suggestion would be to stop watching Fox (not sure about its business channel), but it wouldn’t be to turn on MSNBC (or even CNN) instead. I would say go with PBS Newshour (even if they didn’t get Truman right).
11:12 am on May 6th, 2011 165
usinkorea wrote:
I don’t know how much you watch PBS Newshour (and I’m focusing on a specific program; it is their flagship news program, but I don’t listen to or view enough of their other programming to make an informed judgement), but I don’t think it is a “facade.”
PBS Newshour tends to give important players on both sides a chance to sit down, explain, and discuss without having to resort to sound bites and without falling victim to “gotcha!” media.
I have leaned far more about Paul Ryan and John Boehner and their plans from Newshour than I would from anywhere else, largely (but not completely) in their own words, enough that I can say to myself, “Well, I agree with them there, but not there, but that idea also makes sense,” etc.
It also helps that Mark Shields (on the left) and David Brooks (on the right) represent the respective middle of their side of the spectrum instead of an extreme. PBS puts them there for substantive and informative discussion, not crossfire or bickering.
11:40 am on May 6th, 2011 166
GI Korea wrote:
This particular story (full transcript here) was in my queue for this morning’s daily three-mile run, so I hadn’t yet listened to it when you mentioned it.
But the glaring mistake (pretty bad for a Yale prof) you mentioned made me take a look ahead of time. Here is what is in the transcript:
This sounds a little different from what you said, and I think I see the problem. The Yale guy was talking about Truman being clobbered the “following year,” which would be the 1946 midterm elections, not the 1948 presidential election (which Truman famously won).
A quick look at Wikipedia says that “the Chicago Tribune hailed the election as ‘the greatest Republican victory since Appomattox,’” and a quick look at Time’s archives (see HERE) confirm that it was being called a “Republican flood.”
This is what Jim Lehrer said:
So I think some of the confusion there is that the Yale guy is talking about Truman (actually his party) being trounced in 1946, and then Jim Lehrer later supports that point with Truman’s very low approval ratings as he exited the White House six years later.
If I were listening to this casually, I might have also mistaken what they were talking about. In fact, when some important point is made that doesn’t ring true, I rewind the iPod about fifteen seconds and listen again sometimes. A lot, in fact.
I haven’t yet listened to the whole report, but I made the same point about Obama’s recent “victory” and Bush41′s victory in the Gulf War. A lot can go wrong between now and November of next year. We have far more jobs added last month but an uptick in the unemployment rate as more people start looking for work again.
The good news is, though, that we can keep recommending Newshours.
1:25 pm on May 6th, 2011 167
Sifting through the Time archives is always fun for me. While checking up on the 1946 Congressional shellacking Truman received, I found this piece introducing new Republican congressmen.
The first one caught my attention:
Maybe it’s because he’s a fellow OCer, but I’ve always had a soft spot for Nixon. I need to go back and visit his Birthplace & Memorial when I’m back in the Big Orange.
3:47 pm on May 6th, 2011 168
GI Korea, I just got back from my run, during which I was able to listen to that particular podcast. I think that, in addition to what I wrote above, the way the Yale prof worded it may have been part of the confusion:
She and others were talking about presidents doing well or poorly in presidential elections following momentous events, but here she shifted from a presidential election to “changing electoral outcomes,” by which she also meant Congressional elections (that are heavily influenced by how the White House occupant is viewed). That shift was subtle and easy to miss, but she was still accurate about what she said.
3:57 pm on May 6th, 2011 169
Kushibo, you are right on what the intent of her statement was now that I read the transcript. I think she would have made her point clearer by saying the “1946 mid-term elections”. They were talking about Presidential elections during the segment so by not adding the mid-term election qualifier I missed the intent of her point. Good catch. Regardless the Newshour is the best news on TV.
Since they don’t have to worry about getting eyeballs to watch the program they don’t have to resort to shouting matches, T&A, celebrity gossip, and selective sound bites of rival politicians and news hosts to piss off their echo chamber audience. Since they also don’t have to worry about commercial breaks the news segments are longer with enough time for people to explain whatever points they are trying to make. For people used to the info-tainment broadcasts the Newshour can seem quite boring, but if you are looking for a TV news program that actually provides news this is the best there is.
6:37 pm on May 6th, 2011 170
A Berkley law professor says killing Osama bin Laden was a mistake.
10:51 pm on May 6th, 2011 171
#170 Glans—Your Berley law proessor was —- Wrong.
12:46 pm on May 7th, 2011 172
Andy Card says Obama has pounded his chest too much.
8:28 pm on August 21st, 2011 173
A couple of weeks ago, in the Chronicle of Higher Education, Steven Pinker explained the failure of terrorism.
8:40 pm on August 21st, 2011 174
Hollywood (Sony) also announced recently that it will turn out a “Obama Got Osama” movie a few weeks before the election next year – from the same team that gave us The Hurt Locker – and the White House has given them great access to write the script.
I will be interested to see how the intel community reacts to it once it comes out. I wonder if they will think operational security has been damaged or feel pride that their hard work and accomplishments get some recognition when most of what they do is kept secret.
9:13 pm on August 21st, 2011 175
That would be the same movie I mentioned in comment #97.
For anyone whose worried that releasing an “Obama got Osama” movie twenty-five days before the election will give Obama an unfair advantage, please note that twenty-five days is about a week and a half longer than how long it took most Americans to forget the actual event itself.
9:16 pm on August 21st, 2011 176
I think way too much information about the raid has either been intentional released or has slipped out such as the location of the safe house that the CIA used, the release of the names of the Pakistanis that helped us which lead to them being detained by our Pakistani “friends”, and many other operational details. This Obama puff piece coming close to the 2012 election is obviously designed to influence the election and maybe make the American people forget about 9% unemployment for a while. I am afraid that more details of the raid will be released for the President Obama reelection bid.
9:30 pm on August 21st, 2011 177
From what I’ve seen lately, it appears just like I wrote before: The original script is getting a complete overhaul – after stalling out and failing to be made.
It appears it is going to go from a – how the US (Bush) failed to get Osama – (with the subtext being “due to a misguided war in Iraq) – to a triumphant film about how the US (Obama) got him.
Of course, the killing bin Laden was going to be made into a movie at some point no matter who was in office. But would it be pushed down the road and not given much of an effort – or – would it come out early and have money and talent pumped into it.
We now know when it is slated to come out and who is going to do it: Sony and 2 Oscar winners.
I can’t wait to see what actors are involved.
The fact they are releasing it just before the election shows what I was talking about. Hollywood is political. They are going to get this Obama good news story in front of viewers at hopefully the best moment to help Obama’s reelection bid.
9:38 pm on August 21st, 2011 178
USinKorea wrote:
A complete overhaul? Gee, I wonder if it has anything to do with the subject of the movie having been killed?
The LAT link in #97 says even before Osama’s death the film “was due to begin shooting in the coming months.”
I think that’s a self-serving analysis. Even before Osama’s death, they were reportedly going ahead with the movie, and although you put “Bush” in parentheses about the failure to get Osama up to that point, wouldn’t the movie have also been a pointed reminder of Obama’s failure to get Osama?
Anyway, that Sony is more interested in this project now than before Osama was killed is a function of the noteworthiness of the event. Like you said, it would be made no matter who was president.
10:16 pm on August 21st, 2011 179
I think kushibo proved his point, as he usually does. Remember, he’s not an Obama fan. He looked at the facts and drew logical conclusions.
10:21 pm on August 21st, 2011 180
Good cover for when I’m full of $hit.
11:32 pm on August 21st, 2011 181
Who would play Bin Laden? I knew a guy who had the mannerisms of Bin Laden when I was growing up — low speed and quite mumbly speech, but he was a heroin addict. Come to think of it, there were reports Bin Laden was a seller and user of the ‘horse’.
If he were still alive, I think David Carradine would have been perfect. They look similar, sort of walk and talk similarly and I could just see Carradine sitting in front of a 12 inch TV in his underwear watching porn movies. Come to think this too, maybe that’s exactly what he was doing before he autoerotic asphyxiated himself.
11:39 pm on August 21st, 2011 182
My guess is we’ll see not-too-well-known young actors playing the Seals but a few big names playing key figures in the military and administration hierarchy.
I’d love to get a copy of the original script to compare it to the one they end up shooting.
11:56 pm on August 21st, 2011 183
kushibo 180, I didn’t say that. It was Setnaffa.