By I have known about the death of long time ROK Drop reader and Korea Finder guru Mark Gardner for a few weeks now, but I wanted to let some time pass before posting on it in order to let the rumor mill sort itself out. Since then really no new information has become available, but I can tell what I do know for sure which is that Mark was found dead in a hotel room at the Dragon Hill Lodge. It has not been confirmed how he died yet, however, Mark’s last update on Facebook is quite troubling:
would like to say goodbye to all his friends in case he doesn’t survive this debacle….
I have known Mark for a long time and for those that don’t know him he is a very intelligent and caring guy who really loved his family especially his little daughter. Mark was also a big Seattle Seahawks fan since he is originally from Oregon. Mark was one of those guys you work with in the Army that you never forget because of how different he was. He had an incredible memory and was very funny, but he had his flaws such as his tendency to piss off superiors that kept things interesting. Mark recently retired from the Army as a Major and moved from the US back to Korea to work a contract job for a short time before his death.
May Mark rest in peace and my condolences to Mark’s family as they get through this difficult time.
8:29 am on May 14th, 2011 1
I, too, was hoping for things to become more clear.
Mark was a delightful poster… who seemed to have his heart and mind in the right places… and he seemed to be appropriately-yet-lightheartedly irritated at the world in all the correct ways.
His last Facebook update IS very odd.
Too many good guys move on while too many dirtbags linger.
See you on the Other Side, Mark… and we will drink what passes for a beer there.
8:37 am on May 14th, 2011 2
Which one was he?
9:14 am on May 14th, 2011 3
The mention of Korea Finder guru should has helped. This was probably his last.
9:29 am on May 14th, 2011 4
I had met Mark a couple times after he became a contractor. Great guy with a great sense of humor. I’d really like to understand the somewhat cryptic message. Things like this are always somewhat disturbing to those left behind. He’s in my thoughts this night.
9:31 am on May 14th, 2011 5
Some amusing things on his facebook info:
Political Views Fascist
Favorite Quotations
“I know that Army policy is not to have a ‘zero-defects’ mentality; I demand it only of myself.” –Gardner
“For the pessimist, things will always turn out better than expected.” –Gardner
“Do not question me, for I have already deliberated every possible outcome in the time it has taken you to think of your question.” –Gardner
“If you really want to know the truth of what’s going on, ask the private, for he has not yet learned how to lie.” –Gardner
“Boredom is the greatest insult to oneself.” –Gardner
…”Nietzsche was wrong; God is NOT dead, because I have not yet killed him.” –Gardner
“Only the rich in resources can afford to be MacArthurs, Pattons, Schwarzkopfs, Napoleons…the poor must settle for being Rommels, bin Ladens, or Ho Chi Minhs.” –Gardner
“I’ll never be a general…the US Army has always valued ignorant industriousness over brilliant laziness.” –Gardner
“To me, the United Nations has always been nothing more than a charity. The Salvation Army has been around much longer, and not once do I recall asking their permission to attack.” –Gardner
“Sore losers are often sore winners.” –Gardner
“Be patient; life is too short to be in a hurry.” –Gardner
“Just because I’m fascist doesn’t make me a Nazi.” –Gardner
“Pithiness is more profound than verbosity.” –Gardner
“All wounds are self-inflicted.” –Gardner
9:51 am on May 14th, 2011 6
GI. There are two posts before his lat. I hate to read anything – into anything but…
is taking Walker Hill’s no-limit baccarat table to the cleaners!!!
April 16 at 5:14pm via Mobile Web
just found out the hard way that there was in fact a table limit…..
April 16 at 9:49pm via Mobile Web
would like to say goodbye to all his friends in case he doesn’t survive this debacle….
April 16 at 9:53pm via Mobile Web
10:20 am on May 14th, 2011 7
I recognize his face. I’m sure I’ve seen him around Yongsan. I vaguely recall someone introducing him to me.
RIP Mark.
11:09 am on May 14th, 2011 8
So… This wasn’t newsworthy? I do not recall even a blip in Stripes.
Here we have a relatively young contractor, a retired army major and a West Pointer to boot who left a cryptic message on facebook AND was found dead on a major US installation in an MWR facility. No, surely this isn’t news the community would be interested in.
12:17 pm on May 14th, 2011 9
Leon,
I would like to blame it on the usual laziness and ineptness of the Stars & Stripes hacks who didn’t have a USFK press release to paraphrase…
…but who knows.
There has been the quiet stench of a big, fat, funking USFK secrecy rat lingering over this whole, strange deal since it went down.
Maybe it is time to throw out some rumors and see what sticks.
1:07 pm on May 14th, 2011 10
Any updates?
1:53 pm on May 14th, 2011 11
This is disturbing to me. I’m very saddened to hear of his death, and I must say I was wondering where he was on the Korea Finder… just the other day I was wondering to myself as I puzzled over Chŏltusan whether he was deliberately holding back so that others could have a chance to win for a change. Frankly, that didn’t sound like Mark, who would probably call anyone a wuss for suggesting that, but who knows. I even alluded to this in a post kinda sorta dedicated to his mad Korea Finder skills.
It’s disturbing to me because he doesn’t seem like the type to take his own life, and he seems too young and healthy for natural causes to have been what did him in, so if you eliminate suicide from the picture you’re left only with homicide. Could have have been doing something that would make him a target? That’s what I find so disturbing.
I didn’t always agree with Mark on everything — he saw a sexual ulterior motive in just about everything that went on in Korea and in his remarks he really seemed to see all Korean women as whores, an idea he seemed to promote right and left, and it struck me that he’s setting up his own half-Korean daughter to be painted with that brush by others who picked up on that meme — but he really seemed to love and care about his daughter, and that’s not usually the type who off themselves. From his comments it also seemed that, through his job, he was steeped in the underbelly of what happens in places like Itaewon. I think that distorted his selective gaze, but it also may have set him up for trouble with unsavory people. Again, that’s why I find his death disturbing and think someone should be providing answers.
The S&S should have been reporting on his death, as Leon LaPorte suggests.
I will always remember Mark for his iconic “nice cup of STFU” avatar and his “Outpost of Tranny” remark. First time I read that, it nearly made me spill coffee all over the computer.
Requiescat in pace, Mark Gardner.
1:57 pm on May 14th, 2011 12
I never met the guy and I don’t know him well enough for me to engage in any speculation. Apologies for that.
2:45 pm on May 14th, 2011 13
As usual I have no clue, so I simply offer my condolences to all who knew and loved Mark.
3:04 pm on May 14th, 2011 14
is taking Walker Hill’s no-limit baccarat table to the cleaners!!!
April 16 at 5:14pm via Mobile Web
just found out the hard way that there was in fact a table limit…..
April 16 at 9:49pm via Mobile Web
would like to say goodbye to all his friends in case he doesn’t survive this debacle….
April 16 at 9:53pm via Mobile Web
– I haven’t been reading the blogs or news. This is the first I’ve heard about this.
3:11 pm on May 14th, 2011 15
I don’t know if it’s even appropriate to apologize for just thoughts, but I feel I should admit that he was so good at Finder, it crossed my mind that he might be a GI Korea alias.
3:15 pm on May 14th, 2011 16
I’m reading the facebook page now…I wonder who did the autopsy? USFK since he was a contractor and the body found on US soil – or – the Korean authorities?
I still remember how we learned nothing from the ESLer who died under custody in a Korean hospital after being picked up by the police.
I remember the family wanted their own autopsy done, but when the body arrived home, it had no organs. I tried a little to see if that might be common when shipping bodies but didn’t come up with anything.
3:21 pm on May 14th, 2011 17
#13
Just looking at the timestamps on those last two postings it strikes me as an incredibly short period of time from what might be considered expressions of conquest to desperation.
3:27 pm on May 14th, 2011 18
Did some googling. Nothing. This post by GI Korea comes up. That’s it. Look for his name. Looked for Dragon Hill Lodge. Nothing on this.
You would think Stars and Stripes would run at least a death notice.
3:33 pm on May 14th, 2011 19
#16 I’m going to try to keep speculation to a minimum.
There was almost 5 hours between announcing big winnings until the note of serious trouble.
3:53 pm on May 14th, 2011 20
#18
I also agree to speculate no further.
4:24 pm on May 14th, 2011 21
Question for gamblers, especially casino ones: Baccarat is played against the house, right? Not other players…
4:40 pm on May 14th, 2011 22
Sad
5:07 pm on May 14th, 2011 23
That’s just sad.
He was a very witty man with a good sense of humor.
5:18 pm on May 14th, 2011 24
I think there are other players but I found this interesting as I know nothing of the game: Punto banco (Baccarat) is usually played in special rooms separated from the main gaming floor, ostensibly to provide an extra measure of privacy and security because of the high stakes often involved. The game is frequented by very high rollers, who may wager tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on a single hand. Minimum bets are relatively high, often starting at 25 USD and going as high as 500 USD. Posted maximum bets are often arranged to suit a player, but maximums of 10,000 USD per hand are common.
5:30 pm on May 14th, 2011 25
I’d really like to know some more details of what happened, in part because I want to be assured that dark forces aren’t offing people they find inconvenient. The main candidates are suicide, homicide, and untimely but unintended death. The latter could be from alcohol poisoning or some other thing, but the Facebook updates seem a bit inconvenient for that.
Was Mark the type of person who could commit suicide? The Korea blogger who became a China blogger, Shawn Matthews, jumped off a building, but people who knew this person were not surprised that he ultimately did this. Would friends of Mark say the same or would the be baffled as well?
If this was self-inflicted, could Mark have left those Facebook updates on purpose as a kind of “gag” of sorts. That doesn’t sound like something someone would do if they were thinking of killing themselves, but some out-there personalities might. It would depend a lot on why they were killing themselves.
I’m sorry, but the more I think about this, I will speculate. Here is a death that doesn’t make sense, and when it doesn’t make sense, there may be a reason that it doesn’t, something that needs to be resolved or, worse, needs to be remedied or even investigated.
Some say that protecting the privacy of the deceased means we shouldn’t dwell on the circumstances of their death, and that is true up to a point (the living may also need protection from whatever thing or person caused that death).
But when there is utterly no news whatsoever, then the dignity of the dead needs to protected from what speculation fills that vacuum.
This whole situation smells bad.
5:57 pm on May 14th, 2011 26
Kushibo is an expert on people he does not know, events he did not see.
6:13 pm on May 14th, 2011 27
Mark will be missed by those of us who have worked with him in the past. Many of you are trying to read into his final writing but if you were to read his blog many things would become clear. Mark had a real problem with authority, his words not mine, he also had some mental troubles that made his life in the Army dificult. These problems don’t just go away when you have a major life change. We had talked numerous times about what he should do to resolve these problems while we worked together. Rest in Peace brother!
6:33 pm on May 14th, 2011 28
Is that a dig? I accurately called it on Laura Ling, Euna Lee, and Mitch Koss months before anyone else. Here, I’ve got questions that I think are legitimate ones. I’m not saying anything’s true but laying out realistic possibilities, but without picking one — I also note that they’re mutually exclusive, so they can’t all be true.
And I don’t necessarily have to “see” something; I can extrapolate based on reasonable knowledge of past events, as long as I keep sight of the fact that their mere speculations and guesses until proven right or wrong.
As for “knowing” Mark, I interacted with him in several forums on numerous occasions, so it’s not as if I’m working with a blank slate here. Others know him better than I do, which is why I’m asking questions and not making statements.
6:35 pm on May 14th, 2011 29
Kormatt (#26), thanks for that insight. While the things you describe might have pushed him too far military- or work-wise, would these have been enough to push him over the edge in this way?
6:37 pm on May 14th, 2011 30
We know literally nothing about the man’s death. We don’t even know enough to speculate.
I have found no details except the fact he died. No clue to causes.
Without knowing even the basics of the cause of death, we can’t come close to making anything beyond wild guesses.
6:44 pm on May 14th, 2011 31
“to push him over the edge in this way”
In what way would that be?
This is why speculation with virtually nothing to go on is not in good taste.
If you (anyone) were posting speculations on a blog with no comments allowed, maybe you could control it. In a forum, no. And here, you’ve gone from guesses at potential cuases of death to writing “enough to push him over the edge in this way” in a short comment which can fuel readers and future comments to further as “fact” the speculation he killed himself….
….when we have zero to work with.
Until we have even basic details about the circumstances of the death – we have way too little to work with…
6:54 pm on May 14th, 2011 32
I know Leo will blast me for saying this but I don’t care. May his soul rest in peace and find peace on the next plain.
7:13 pm on May 14th, 2011 33
@31: minor point…but I think you meant “plane.”
7:40 pm on May 14th, 2011 34
#31: No blast for you!
7:45 pm on May 14th, 2011 35
#31
That may seem necessary for you but, just so you know, Mark did list under his philosophy on his Facebook page that he was an atheist.
7:55 pm on May 14th, 2011 36
Mark A Gardner
wishes the Dragon Hill Lodge would turn on their air conditioning, because it’s getting kinda stuffy….
April 5 at 2:09am
On the Dragon Hill Facebook Wall.
8:00 pm on May 14th, 2011 37
#34 I wasn’t going to go there.
I did let it pass as it was well intentioned and did not invoke any specific of the certain deities of the Three Mediterranean Death Cults which are currently being used to vex humanity.
Mark has passed to the abyss. While there is no consciousness neither is there pain or guilt. He simply is no more. But, he is well remembered in the minds of those who knew him and many with which he interacted.
8:08 pm on May 14th, 2011 38
So this happened weeks ago? Why the smell of USFK coverup? Or is it that the U.S. Army doesn’t give a shit about Contractors… even if they have served a full career in support of the United States of America. If someone runs into Bones maybe you could gather some intel on this from him.
8:09 pm on May 14th, 2011 39
#26
There are insights on his blog.
8:32 pm on May 14th, 2011 40
I’m shocked and saddened.
I send my condolences to his family and friends.
9:02 pm on May 14th, 2011 41
usinkorea wrote:
In the way suggested by the person I was responding to, if that in fact turns out to be the case.
I think if anyone were poring over my comments, it’s doubtful they would land solely on that one; I have made clear that I think a wide range of scenarios is possible and we simply don’t know.
I was merely responding to someone who had provided a first-hand account of his state, and I don’t think it was out of line.
My comments are merely speculation (and at any rate I have arrived at no speculative conclusion). Almost everybody’s comments are merely speculation, and that’s pretty obvious. But in this case at least, the circumstances warrant discussion about what the hell is going on (e.g., unexpected death, utter lack of news about a newsworthy situation, somewhat business-as-usual signals in the hours leading up to the death, etc.), and discussion inevitably involves speculation, supposition, and conjecture.
And airing this in the light may indeed serve a purpose. If indeed there was foul play involved, perhaps this discussion would peel off a layer and perhaps force powers-that-be to analyze this stuff further, if that’s not happening.
10:10 pm on May 14th, 2011 42
He would be a good source. As would just about anyone working on the DHL staff.
10:31 pm on May 14th, 2011 43
#40
But that is how it gets out of hand. You speculated in a longer comment. Someone else responded. You responded with a short note. And then the thread reads like it is taken for granted he killed himself.
Speculation is fine. But, without the least information how he died, posting speculation that can easily run wild in very different directions is not something I’d recommend.
I can’t help thinking of possible ways this came about, but again, without the most crucial information to begin from, I think it would be better to keep it to myself and hope more solid info comes out.
11:35 pm on May 14th, 2011 44
We don’t have zero to work with. We have history.
1. USFK typically makes a big deal out of anything alcohol-related.
2. USFK has a mixed history concerning suicide. Sometimes, the situation
is clear and USFK does not hide what happened… and sometimes…
3. USFK has a history of getting very quiet when someone dies under circumstances where suicide is implied but doesn’t quite add up… and the whole situation is forgotten about as quickly as possible.
With what little information is available, this is looking like number 3. Mark was not a dead-end English teacher escaping a life of poverty and addiction… and, for a guy who frequently micro-blogged a play-by-play account of his daily life, that wasn’t much of a suicide note.
Unlike some of the no-names this has happened to in the past, Mark was well-know and had a longer-term connection to Korea and relationships with long-term Korea residents. Hopefully he is not forgotten like the others.
11:39 pm on May 14th, 2011 45
Stars & Stripes (we know some of you sometimes lurk here) we are calling you out!
12:47 am on May 15th, 2011 46
Until we have at least the basics of the death scene, all speculation will be built on quicksand. That’s the key.
1:33 am on May 15th, 2011 47
#28 Without speculation or disrespect in any way to Mark. Yes there were many signs both in personel interaction and Blog posting from a couple of years ago that would suggest that the world tended to overwhelm Mark. By no means am I saying that he did anything to himself but it is a very distinct possiblilty. I spoke today with a number of people that worked with Mark either together with me or after Mark left Korea the first time, while saddened at the loss of Mark they are assuming the worst. I’m sure there are people on this blog that have interacted with Mark just as much or more than me they may or may not agree with me but this is what I saw first hand.
2:27 am on May 15th, 2011 48
I am greatly confused. He found out the ‘hard way’ that there was a table limit so he offed himself? Somebody please shed some light on this for me. Maybe some details will emerge as time goes on.
2:42 am on May 15th, 2011 49
If Mark was an Atheist then do him justice and do not have a Funeral or Burial for him. Just remember him, burn the body like it was cattle and reclaim the phoshporous. A human being whom does not believe they have a soul should be treated as if they do. Those who do believe they do should treat everyone with the oppurtunity to choose their own path, as vice versa.
3:03 am on May 15th, 2011 50
Funerals and ceremonies are for the living. Also, there is no requirement that they must be religious affairs.
3:49 am on May 15th, 2011 51
Conway Eastwood,
“I am greatly confused. He found out the ‘hard way’ that there was a table limit so he offed himself?”
The only thing I could think of is that he was using the martingale betting method and hit the table limit before breaking even… thereby losing all his money… and, perhaps, even having a huge outstanding debt.
The martingale system is where you keep wins but double your bet on losses so you break even the next time you win… the theory being that wins make money or break even after losses that never really lose.
I made over a thousand dollars in Vegas when I was a teenager using this betting method on blackjack… although pre-Internet, I thought I was the most brilliant guy on the Strip for thinking this up all by myself.
Of course just before I was going to stop at $1400, I had a losing streak… and, even at the $5 table, something like 8 losses in a row ate up all my money thanks to the painful reality of exponential growth.
It wouldn’t take but a few more losing bets to hit the table limit… a pretty depressing thought if the table limit is in the tens of thousands of dollars… and more depressing if you are on credit or using money that is needed for something else.
That is the best interpretation of the posts that I could come up with.
At this time, discussion and speculation is important… and the respectful thing to do in a situation where Mark has been officially forgotten in a rather strange way.
If it turns out that he committed suicide, well… that’s the way it is. It was his choice… think what you may.
If it turns out there is something more sinister, it should be screamed from the rooftops… especially if there is a cover-up of sorts.
And, if it turns out it was gambling loss-induced suicide but USFK wishes to keep that quiet to protect their own gambling racket or due to an unholy alliance between USFK leadership and a Korean foreigner-only casino which makes a lot of money by staying on-limits to GIs… well, perhaps that should get a little more publicity.
In the end, as we discussed with Vang Her, when secrecy surrounds a suspicious death, people assume worse things than suicide… not an honorable way to be remembered.
Sharing information, forming theories, and tasteful discussion, are the correct actions to respect Mark’s memory… and, perhaps, right some wrongs or save another like him.
3:56 am on May 15th, 2011 52
Ok.. Since I like to speculate….
You are a newly hired Contractor and you are handed 30k In cash for your annual housing. You decide to hit the Casino. The low limit table suckers you into a false sense of skill and superiority. You hit the table limit but are hungry for more. The Gampe that run the Casino are their to help. You are ushered into a quiet ‘high-stakes’ game for ‘high-rollers’ where sultry prostitutes rub your ego (among other things) while you are introduced to reality with a very very long slow shaft. You leave the Casino owing the Mob 50k or more with no way to pay and they also have recorded evidence of said prostitutes receiving payment from you for ‘services’ which they make clear will be handed over to your USFK COR if you don’t make good on your debt within 24 Hours. Have a nice day, Thanks for Playing, Game over.
5:31 am on May 15th, 2011 53
Whoa, hold on. I have been speculating that he died from suicide, homicide, or unintended accident, not just suicide.
In fact, in the exchange you cite as evidence that I’ve turned this thread into it being “taken for granted he killed himself,” I think I sound somewhat skeptical
that suicide is the likely cause (#28):
I’ve been reading this on my iPhone and writing on my laptop, so I’d forgotten what I’d actually written. You fooled me into thinking I had really nudged this toward the suicide conclusion because I took your word about what I had written. That was probably not very wise, because you have a tendency toward misinterpretation of my comments because, quite frankly, unsinkorea, you do seem to scan then with the intent of finding something to be outraged by or otherwise gripe about. “What can I get upset about with kushibo’s comments this time?”
It seems you’re assuming I (and others) have reached hard conclusions when what we’re doing is exploring possibilities. And that is a fair thing to do because he really did die from either homicide, suicide, accident, or natural causes. (The only thing I could remotely call a speculated conclusion on my part is that the natural causes possibility is very low.)
It also seems you’re speaking from a (perhaps subconscious) position where his actual death itself is speculative. But he did die, and there’s a 100% chance that it was either homicide, suicide, accident, or natural death. Considering that any of those has an average likelihood of 25%, and two or three of them are quite serious and perhaps have dire ramifications, we would be remiss NOT to robustly discuss them.
Life belongs to the living, a cohort we must protect. We prosecute murderers, for example, not because it will bring back the dead but because we prevent future death. We similarly speak out against and research ways to prevent suicide not because it will bring back the dead but because it will stop some future death. A similar argument can be made for getting to the bottom of accidental deaths or natural causes in someone so young.
Life belongs to the living, and frankly, if someone killed themselves, they have forfeited the right to control the circumstances in which it is discussed. We don’t respect them by sugarcoating it or pretending it didn’t happen. Similarly, in the case of homicide — and that possibility is being speculated as well — we are doing a disservice by not looking into it.
It is only if it were natural causes or an accident where we run the risk of disrespecting the dead through our discussion, but the other possibilities loom large enough that someone like Mark would want us to robustly investigate this methinks.
5:57 am on May 15th, 2011 54
Looking at old news headlines with “Mark Gardner” in them, were THIS from 2009 and THIS from 2006 both our Mark Gardner?
If the first one was his, did he ever get his daughter’s education resolved? How valid were those complaints? (I note that Kang Shin-who wrote the article, and he is public enemy #2 among the ESL-teaching bloggers.)
Another one has a Mark Gardner as the contact person for this:
An odd activity for an atheist, if that is the same Mark.
I’m sure this one is our Mark Gardner (I recognize the photo), and I note that in a couple hours it would be his birthday, Korea time. Also, this summer would be his 20th class reunion.
6:04 am on May 15th, 2011 55
Also, usinkorea, I think the tone of the original post…
… set the stage for us to be discussing the circumstances surrounding his death.
No, that is not blaming our host, GI Korea, for all this “speculation,” since I don’t think this is really a problem to begin with (i.e., there is nothing to blame).
I’m just saying you seem to be misguidedly blaming people for something that is both natural and (at this point) necessary. So far, I think we’ve been doing it with more than a reasonable modicum of respect for this man who was quite a presence on certain K-blogs and also clearly a loving, devoted father.
10:12 am on May 15th, 2011 56
Kushibo,
I knew a guy who died of a heart attack in his early 30′s. No, he wasn’t overweight (he was very athletic, worked out regularly for all his life) or a drug user (he was a cop who set up one of the largest drug seizures in history, not merely measured in kilos, but in tons). Apparently congenital heart disease runs in his family.
11:39 am on May 15th, 2011 57
So, if he had an apartment in Yangju, I wonder why he was staying at the Dragon Hill Lodge?
12:22 pm on May 15th, 2011 58
Teadrinker wrote:
Oh, I don’t disagree, Teadrinker. Apparently healthy people die in their 20s or 30s fairly often. When I hear about this I’m always reminded of NBC reporter David Bloom, who died in Iraq in 2003 while embedded in a unit during the early part of the war. Had he lived, he’d almost certainly be in the spot held now by Bryan Williams on the Nightly News or that obnoxiously combative David Gregory on Meet the Press.
BUT… I speculatively (and only tentatively) eliminate “natural causes” as a category because, as ChickenHead implies in #43, a “clean” death from natural causes would be safe for S&S to report, but they didn’t.
Now (and this is speculative), S&S might not have reported a natural-cause death because at first they didn’t know it was natural causes, and then by the time they got the autopsy, they didn’t think it was newsworthy.
Has anyone here actually contacted the S&S? I’m a bit loath to do so because (a) I would have to contact them by email and I know they tend not to respond well that way, and more importantly, (b) as someone who interacted with him only online, I don’t feel I have the standing of someone who actually knew him in person.
As for your apparently healthy friend who died of a heart attack in his early thirties after setting up one of the largest drug seizures in history, I think it would be damn prudent to question that cause of death, at least initially.
2:23 pm on May 15th, 2011 59
How was he retired if he graduated from USMA in 1998? Just curious…
3:01 pm on May 15th, 2011 60
Vince – Prior enlisted time.
3:10 pm on May 15th, 2011 61
I’m done.
Hopefully, Stars and Stripes will do its job, and if/when some solid info about this is discoverd, GI Korea will write that up in a new post…
6:18 pm on May 15th, 2011 62
#59
Ah- Thanks, Bob. He was a young looking guy. RIP.
9:12 pm on May 15th, 2011 63
one of his FB likes is “Mental Illness” hint hint!
the guy was FB’ing about obviously having issues at the walker hill casino which leans toward him getting into losing a large amount of money and as a contractor he received LQA proably in a lump sum? when and how much was his bank withdraw. i am sure CID got that information
the DHL has cameras all over the place so I am sure they went and saw him leave the hotel and come back at some point to put together a final time line. if he wasnt alone they would have the person on video going and coming from the room. he had a wife and daughter who are totally left on their own now so all you idiots talking about how nice he was arent seeing the reality of the situation. most with gambling problems drink and are loose with their money so he might have even been down in itaewon slinging $$$$ around with some of the fine ladies who are always looking for fools to blow their loads in more ways than one!
10:10 pm on May 15th, 2011 64
I first time I worked with Mark was in 2004 at 8th Army. He was a stand up dude, funny loving father with sharp wit with a brain to match. I chatted with him online when he got back to Korea. I am currently leaving Afghanistan and was going to meet up with him in a few weeks. I believe his birthday was a the last couple days. He will be missed and I hope his daughter knows what I good man her father was. Requiescat in pace
11:03 pm on May 15th, 2011 65
@Vince #58: If you look at his blog, it seems that he was medically retired early. I only gave it a quick look when it was posted above, so I could be wrong.
11:23 pm on May 15th, 2011 66
medically as in pshycologically?
11:51 pm on May 15th, 2011 67
Went back a couple of months through his facebook page:
12:18 am on May 16th, 2011 68
Went back over the facebook posts back to Oct of last year.
It seems he had a gambling problem he was trying to control through medication (and not suceeding).
Those aren’t pretty, but they are facts as reported by himself.
12:27 am on May 16th, 2011 69
Last October, he threatened suicide via facebook – stemming, as he says, from severe marital issues.
1:06 am on May 16th, 2011 70
Mark was obviously mentally disturbed. He had been kicked out of the Army and his condition because progressively worse. This doesn’t mean he wasn’t intelligent or charming, I’m sure he probably was. However, there are many, many clues in his blog and Facebook page to show he was suicidal.
It’s not USFK’s nor the S&S fault this troubled individual killed himself.
Let’s face it, the guy was sick and unfortunately it got the best of him.
1:22 am on May 16th, 2011 71
#67 – That’s what I was getting at in my prior comment re: his having an apartment in Yangju but staying at the Dragon.
# 63 and 65 – He had twenty years and terminal leave; he went to basic in 1991. Had three years enlisted time before four at the USMA. By “forcing me to retire early”, he meant before he would have otherwise.
1:24 am on May 16th, 2011 72
We still don’t know how he died, but the facebook entries do start to point to an educated guess.
USFK wasn’t likely to be the cause of his death regardless.
But, Stars and Stripes sure as heck should have reported the death – regardless of circumstances. A death in Dragon Hill Lodge is news. When the death is a military contractor – it’s news. When he’s a former Army major and West Point graduate – it’s news.
In face, why Stars and Stripes decided it wasn’t newsworthy is one of the most interesting (and possibly disturbing) aspects of this event.
2:00 am on May 16th, 2011 73
The condition of bipolar disorder (@65) is exactly what I was suspecting in my comment @16.
2:04 am on May 16th, 2011 74
P.S.
Bipolar disorder and gambling addiction.
2:11 am on May 16th, 2011 75
Many of us knew and respected Mark. However, there are some misconceptions here that need to be cleared up. Without betraying any confidences, I’ll rely on Mark’s blog & public records & policies.
The following are from his Blog (which he recently didn’t maintain well): Mark departed from Korea to Fort Riley circa 2008 to join a MTT team headed to Afghanistan. Something happened and Mark was removed from the team while still at Fort Riley. Shortly thereafter, he was referred to a Medical Evaluation Board for psychiatric reasons (again – from his Blog).
Medical Evaluation Boards (especially if they are contested) can take well over a year. Mark was medically retired as a major with 15 years of service – thirteen as an officer & two from prior enlisted service. Cadet time at USMA does not count toward retirement.
He was hired by a local firm – - smart, positive, well-educated (USMA Class of 1998) guy that he was and found deceased in the DHL while still in-processing. Policy-wise, US SOFA deaths on post are the province of USFK. Cause of death determination waits for lab & tissue work done in the States. This can take up to 12 weeks for routine cases. “Routine” normally means no external foul play suspected.
Remember also that your perceived “need to know” does not trump family privacy issues since we are all normal folks; not public figures. In some cases (I have no idea if this one is involved), the families do not want any publicity regarding the unfortunate event. If something non-criminal in nature happened on post, that does not make it a public event. Allegations of “cover-ups” and “conspiracies” play well in the blogosphere but have no foundation in reality and frankly dishonor his memory.
Rest in peace.
2:19 am on May 16th, 2011 76
I can see policy related to privacy from USFK’s position.
I can’t see Stars and Stripes not reporting the death. It is a newspaper, no?
Again, someone dying at DHL is news. Being a contractor even more so. Being a recently retired West Pointer even more so.
“Details of the death being withheld pending test results” could be a line in a short article.
But an article for such an event should be standard practice for S&S if it wants to be a newspaper.
2:22 am on May 16th, 2011 77
#71, I don’t know….Big swings while gambling are not uncommon – and would produce cooresponding extreme emotions – whether bipolar or not.
2:23 am on May 16th, 2011 78
“Mark was medically retired as a major with 15 years of service”
Was he able to receive any benefits at that status? Was there anything left to pass on to his family?
2:45 am on May 16th, 2011 79
#49 Leon wrote:
“Funerals and ceremonies are for the living. Also, there is no requirement that they must be religious affairs.”
Everything is for the living Leon. You have stated that many times. I just happen to agree with you. A world without God will be like “Logan’s Run” or the Soviet Union. Ironic that we post here concerning the last Atheist Bastion on Earth, the DPRK. Yes the norks have shunned the idea of a God our Gods and Goddesses plural. They have replaced it with a Racial Supreme being. I grant you that fact, however as a Capitlast I would rather live in a world of Human beings with Religion than without. In Soviet Russia, Man eats God. Thank Juno they fell..
3:04 am on May 16th, 2011 80
“… I would rather live in a world of Human beings with Religion than without.”
Way off topic here. I guess I shouldn’t point out how much of history’s death and destruction was done in the name of religion … but I just did.
3:15 am on May 16th, 2011 81
75 – - Medical retirement is paid retirement. But, payments depend on rank, time in service, and disability rating; a lot more complex formula than normal retirement. As far as families receiving benefits; every retiree has the option of selecting (or not) Survivor Benefits. If it is selected, a premium is paid from your monthly retirement check & upon death, the family will recive 55% of your retirement. Not enough to live in luxury, but almost certainly enough to stave off poverty & provide a safety net. This is very much an individual choice, though the insitutional bias is in favor of selecting of Survivor Benefits to protect families. Being retired also incurs medical benefits to the retiree,& the spouse, and minor children.
3:26 am on May 16th, 2011 82
Jack,
Your writing is clear and it makes good sense.
While I completely understand and sympathize with privacy concerns, secrecy about unusual events that happen in semi-public places erodes trust in all related organizations, provides a cover for future corruption, and encourages worst-case speculations which can be worse than the more mundane truth.
The gory details are not necessary… but a notice of death with a follow-up of cause is a courtesy to those who knew him and a better tribute to his memory than allowing inevitable gossip to flourish.
People who didn’t know him will skip that paragraph and people who did are going to find out an embellished version of the truth anyway. USFK is rather a small community to play schoolyard secrets.
More importantly, maximum openness gives less cover to USFK when they try to hide something more sinister…
…as, in reality, USFK has a history of unclear situations, strange incidents, murky relationships, suspect financial dealings, and outright cover-ups… in which they frequently hide behind words like “privacy” long enough for the local Stars & Stripes “reporters” to pass out drunk or get busy tossing one off to naked pictures of Dan Rather… or whatever it is they do when they aren’t breaking important stories and practicing hard-hitting journalism by reformatting USFK press releases and sending them back to the home office.
None of these things, from shady contracting to housing scams to organized black marketing, benefit America, its military, its servicemembers, or USFK as an organization… so maximum transparency should be encouraged on things which aren’t really in need of operational security.
…and if you are skeptical, consider the case of Vang Her… naked in the woods and hit by a taxi… with a wall of USFK silence which even the family members couldn’t breach.
So, in this case, no harm would have been done to report it… and no secrecy-passed-off-as-privacy was really necessary…
…well… unless there are golf games between Walker Hill management and USFK leadership which make sure business keeps going and no scandal ever arises.
3:36 am on May 16th, 2011 83
Unless the rule has changed – this is not an individual decision. A retiring soldier who is married cannot simply tell the folks at the retirement office that he/she doesn’t want to participate in the Survivor Benefit Plan. In order to opt out – the spouse has to agree. If the retiring soldier doesn’t want the plan – but the spouse does want it – the spouse wins.
6:53 am on May 16th, 2011 84
The DPRK is by no means an ‘Atheist Bastion’.
Definitions of ATHEISM
a: a disbelief in the existence of deity
b: the doctrine that there is no deity
Neither of these definitions applies to the Cult of Personality to the North. Kim Il Sung is a Deity and their is no disbelief…. under penalty of death.
7:11 pm on May 16th, 2011 85
A continuing theme here is the confusion of God with the highly-artificial misrepresentations of God’s possible prophets.
7:49 pm on May 17th, 2011 86
#74 & #81 This is just for clarity:
According to the archived blog posts Mark wrote in 2008 I read yesterday:
In 2008, he was training to go to Afghanistan, but he was actually reassigned to go to Iraq – and he did deploy. It was in Iraq that something happened that eventually led to his being sent back to the US for mental evaluation.
Jack (and others) knew Mark. I didn’t outside of his comments at Marmot’s Hole over the years, (and I haven’t been there in a few years…)
But, since there is so little information about the death, and since there has been much speculation, I think hard facts become more important.
Ultimatley, these changes in detail from Jack’s comment #74 probably don’t significantly change things.
I would say – it might make a little difference in some reader’s minds that, whatever led to the medical evaluation, it took place in a war zone – rather than in Kansas. I’m sure the pressure in Iraq was more intense…
Lastly, I agree 100% with the bulk of Chickenhead’s comment #81.
Which is partly why I offered this clarification.
12:15 am on May 18th, 2011 87
I don’t want to go into detail but I now know it was an apparent suicide, gambling/debt related (first in Vegas then finally Seoul).
It should have been reported by S&S even if it was only an announcement with “ongoing investigation”.
So, what is up with S&S?
12:47 am on May 18th, 2011 88
it was a suicide and heard that he tried to kill himself while deployed as well
4:47 pm on May 18th, 2011 89
i do not think he went suicide mark had issues like any normal person…
4:49 pm on May 18th, 2011 90
this is his cousin i think he died of a natrul death he is missed by his family very much…
5:27 pm on May 18th, 2011 91
I met Mark here in Sydney when he was here for a missile defense conference. He was an upstanding guy. It was an honor and a pleasure to have known him. Rest in Peace, Mark.
5:40 pm on May 18th, 2011 92
I wish I’d had the chance to sit down sometime with Mark and have a beer or something.
4:31 am on July 28th, 2011 93
The Stars and Stripes is not mandated to report anything.
Mark died in a room in the DHL. The details of his death are obviously not public record.
Rest in Peace, Mark. My condolences to his family and friends.
9:54 am on July 28th, 2011 94
“The Stars and Stripes is not mandated to report anything.”
Well… perhaps that is true.
But, like juicies that “aren’t under any mandate” to funk, there is a certain bad feeling towards those that represent themselves as fulfilling a function but then hide behind a lack of “mandate” when it comes time to actually work.
In the end, when your job is reporting, you report. Everything else is a limp-diick excuse perpetuated by limp-diick excusers.
News is not just the glossed-over, sugar-coated version of the world… although that trend has done a great deal of harm to the voting public’s perception of reality.
News is a factual, unbiased record of what happened… and the more abnormal or unusual the event, the more newsworthy it is. The location and manner of Mark’s death is both abnormal and unusual.
Mark never represented himself here as anything other than a smart and perceptive guy worthy of attention and respect. As he made an impression and had an effect on many here, his death is news. If the nature of that death is unpleasant, so be it. Mankind betters itself by understanding the truth and improving upon it.
And, while we may not be entitled to “know”, we are certainly entitled to ask… and speculate. But that really does more to dishonor his memory than the truth.
Further, as the possible involvement of “gangster”-controlled casinos (which maintain a relationship with senior USFK leadership to insure perpetual on-limits) could be a factor, it is a duty of Stars & Stripes to recognize that its readership understands the situation and requires professional clarification on what factors might have had a part in Mark’s death.
If Stars & Stripes doesn’t want to step up and report the news, they marginalize themselves. Anyone can read saccharine USFK press releases and listen to misinformed/misrepresentational briefings as well (or better) than they can… making them completely unnecessary.
As most people already suspect, or know, the nature of Mark’s death, Stars & Stripes does no service to his memory by ignoring him. By their obvious silence, they only perpetuate a wilder version of reality that dishonors his legacy.
But little more can be expected from them.
Like so many “reporters”, it is easy to parrot press releases. It is hard to dig up facts… especially when that may result in a lack of access to those easy press releases.
4:39 pm on July 28th, 2011 95
I’m with CH here. To depersonalize it, if a US military contractor recently arrived in Pusan. Is young and healthy. And is found dead in a rooming facility associated with USFK — It’s news. Add to the fact the facility is connected to an all-foreigners casino.
Does USFK have to report it? No.
Are they failing as a news org if they fail to even mention it. Most certainly.
This isn’t like the ESLers a few years ago who died while under custody in a hospital after being taken into custody by the police. USFK, being a military-related news org would be much less likely to cover that story, but it would have made some sense if they had. (I don’t know if they did or not…)
But, if the person is a military contractor, and a former soldier, and dies on property connected to the military…….Seems like a pretty clear issue to me.
4:54 pm on July 28th, 2011 96
Here is an article from S&S about the death of the ESLer in 2003.
They noted he was a former GI, so I guess that fits USFK, but it does underscore the point that not reporting the death of a (new) military contractor on a military-related facility should have been reported by an organization that takes pride in covering news related to the military in Korea…
5:23 pm on July 28th, 2011 97
The silence is deafening on Mark’s death. Many who worked with him know, or think they know, what happened. Why there was not an iota of news in S&S on this makes one speculate there are darker forces at work. It’s human nature.
Why not let the sun shine on it? Mark deserved better than to be blown off in such a fashion. At least an obituary of some kind. The story could at least serve as a cautionary tale which might save another member of the USFK community. Who knows?
In the meantime today’s Pacific S&S has reports scarfed from AP about Hyndai profits and the Korean futbol scandal. News the USFK community can use!
5:35 pm on July 28th, 2011 98
“Further, as the possible involvement of “gangster”-controlled casinos (which maintain a relationship with senior USFK leadership to insure perpetual on-limits)”
is that a joke?
6:38 pm on July 28th, 2011 99
“Why there was not an iota of news in S&S on this makes one speculate there are darker forces at work. It’s human nature.”
There is no reason the paper couldn’t have done a generic news story about it without many details at all.
Silence does not benefit anybody much – except DHL and USFK.
6:40 pm on July 28th, 2011 100
98 He’s probably referring to the cryptic-sounding facebook message GI Korea noted in the original post. Without further info, going by that message alone, widely different speculation could be made.
6:58 pm on July 28th, 2011 101
I’ve known of several people who have died on Yongsan and their deaths were never reported in the newspapers. Why should Mark’s death be reported? There’s a lot of stuff that goes on and is not reported; rape, child abuse; suicides; assaults; etc., everyday..none of it’s reported.
8:31 pm on July 28th, 2011 102
101 – That sounds like a problem. Crimes happening on base but the military news doesn’t report it? Obits aren’t given?
Heck, the obits were pretty much all my grandparents read in the paper. The local reporters also check out the daily blotter at the jail or that day’s arrest sheets at police HQ. Did every single crime get reported? No. But many did. Especially unusual ones.
A contractor just in country who died in DHL after posting cryptic messages to his facebook page counts as news – I think most people would feel.
That doesn’t mean the police have an obligation to give out details….
But a newspaper should do at least a little reporting.
8:32 pm on July 28th, 2011 103
101. Perhaps those things SHOULD have been reported. They are definitely of interest to the community. S&S bills itself as “Your hometown newspaper”. I guarantee my home town newspaper would report on all those crimes and deaths. Hell, even publishing a PAO release would be better than nothing.
10:30 pm on July 28th, 2011 104
Hardyandtiny,
One important characteristic of free and open societies is the correct balance between public interest and personal privacy.
For this reason, there may be differing opinions on the newsworthiness of Mark’s death.
When needless secrecy is tolerated by the public over non-issues, organizations use this apathy to hide actions and situations that are real issues.
For this reason, this should be reported.
As for my “joke” about senior military leadership and Korean casino management having a relationship, ask why “Gambling Houses” are off-limits except for Good Neighbors with poker rooms and no-limit baccarat tables.
10:35 pm on July 28th, 2011 105
I did a quick check, and based on Brian at Jollanam-do’s blog update in 2008, the parents of the long-term expat and ESLer who died in Korean custody will not get closure. I figured they wouldn’t when someone from the family noted on the K-blogs that his body had been shipped home minus the internal organs which prevented them from having an autopsy done as planned. (Brian’s update lets us know that the Korean authorities also refuse to release the detailed autopsy leaving the cause of death as “unknown” as listed on the preliminary one.) They’ll be in my prayers.
9:55 am on August 17th, 2011 106
Mark will be laid to rest today at Black Hills National Cemetery in Sturgis, SD at 2:00 P.M.
10:40 am on August 17th, 2011 107
CEM,
Thanks for that info in post #106. I saw some inquiries on Mark’s facebook page and posted the info in response.
Though I didn’t know Mark I have been watching some of the death and or crime related stories on this blog site and the lack of closure about them is the most disturbing aspect of USFK that I have yet seen, for both active duty members and civilian contractors. I guess I’ve been naive.
11:07 am on August 17th, 2011 108
Reading through the comments left by those who knew Mark I got the strong impression the he was intensely OCD however, it was the combination of being bipolar and having a gambling problem that really got my attention. Those two issues are like a lock and key match for a crisis. It does sound like he had rare abilities and huge potential.