By That is what is being debated quite heavily right now over at This Ain’t Hell in response to this article:
The Army in coming weeks will select its top camouflage contenders to cover your next combat uniform. A leading choice is the Marine Corps’ MARPAT.
But although the outgoing top enlisted Marine says you can’t use it, the Army general who launched the effort begs to differ.
The Army is spending as much as $10 million to field three new combat uniforms — a woodland variant, a desert variant and a “transitional” variant that covers everything in between. The Army in July will select five contenders: three from industry and two from the government. Wear and field tests will follow. If all goes as planned, production will begin in October 2012.
MARPAT is a leading contender. The pattern is so effective that the woodland and desert variants will be among the baseline patterns used in the forthcoming tests. The others are the Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage Pattern, or OCP; and AOR 1 and 2, which resemble the Marine desert and woodland digital patterns but are specially treated to reduce the wearer’s infrared signature.
Army officials have said they want soldiers to wear the best possible camouflage — even if that is the MARPAT. But Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Carlton Kent says don’t count on it.
The Corps owns the rights to MARPAT and wants to retain it for its own use, Kent said late last year. Marine officials said they have no beef with anyone researching and testing MARPAT, but they want Marines distinguished from other service members on the battlefield.
“The main concern for the Marine Corps when it comes to other services testing our patterns is that they don’t exactly mimic them,” said Kent, who is scheduled to retire June 9. “The MARPAT design is proprietary, and it’s important those designs are reserved for Marines. We just need to make sure each of our designs is unique to each service.” [The Army Times]
You can read more at the link and likewise make sure to check out the discussion going on over at This Ain’t Hell as well which has been getting pretty heated. First of all the MARPAT is a great uniform and of course the Army screwed up their selection of a new universal uniform by selecting the ACU. I remember getting issued the ACU at Ft. Lewis, Washington and while out in the field it was clear that the ACU did not blend into a woodland environment, which left everyone thinking who thought this would be a good idea? In an urban environment the ACU is actually pretty good and in the desert it is not too bad but the MARPAT is better in my opinion. Also the ACU falls apart when deployed and the velcro pockets were a disasterous idea. This all just makes me wonder why someone in Congress doesn’t investigate such a failed acquisition decision? How much taxpayer dollars were wasted on the ACU? Anyway kudos on the Marines for making a superior uniform, however, it is not unheard of to standardize uniforms across services because remember when we all used to wear BDU’s?
With that said I am not surprised by the big push back from the Marines on this issue. Having served jointly with Marines before it is important to realize that they like to differentiate themselves from the Army due to concerns that the Army may try to absorb the Corps one day. Supposedly there have been attempts in the past to do so, which were unsuccessful. So any opportunity they have to differientiate themselves from the Army they will do so. It seems ridiculous that anyone is going to advocate for abolishing the Marine Corps, but I guess when you are much smaller than the other branches of the military this is a legitimate concern from the Marine perspective. However, the Army already has a good uniform the MultiCam that has tested very well in Afghanistan so they don’t even need the MARPAT. The Army just needs to get a desert variant of the MultiCam and then stop this ridiculous uniform change nonsense once and for all.
She hasn’t seen...
3:14 am on June 14th, 2011 1
If you take a close look at the Marine pattern, there are tiny little globe and anchors all over it. That is likely what the Sergeant Major is referring to.
I remember when they fielded the ACU with the current pattern someone was quoted as saying “there is no black in nature”. What horse shit.
Being a practical guy, when I first saw the ACU, one of the first things I thought about was the guys who work in the motor pool and how one little drop of oil would ruin a uniform or the boots. The oil has nowhere to hide!
3:36 am on June 14th, 2011 2
Do really have a bunch of straight guys trying to figure out what uniform is best for their service?
Just wait for the DADT repeal and task the uniforms’ evaluations and selections off to teams of gay guys. That may be something they are innately skilled at.
3:48 am on June 14th, 2011 3
JoeC: TROLOLOLOL… EO Complaint ::sad face::
4:46 am on June 14th, 2011 4
The difference between the boy scouts and the army, is that the boy scouts have adult leadership.
The war has been a windfall for the army, so now the big battle is over “uniforms”?
“KISS”, keep it simple stupid.
4:49 am on June 14th, 2011 5
Well, it was fun hearing heart warming speeches about how we are not a black or white army but a green… errr… digital… army… Ha ha ha ha.
5:26 am on June 14th, 2011 6
The Marine design IS proprietary and it belongs to Joe Taxpayer. If we want to use it for the U.S. Post Office then so be it we can do that. The Marine Corp leadership needs a nice hot cup of STFU!!
5:49 am on June 14th, 2011 7
There must be something wrong with the MARPAT because I’ve seen Marines wearing Multi Cams. Does anyone know why?
5:55 am on June 14th, 2011 8
Regardless of the uniform, every time I see the Marine’s “cover”, I’m reminded of Gomer Pyle, USMC.
Goooooooooolllllllleeeeeeeee
Shazam!
6:17 am on June 14th, 2011 9
The Marines wearing Crye Multicam were probably FORECON guys. SOF wears a lot of different camouflage patterns.
As for the USA using the USMC’s MARPAT, there are many better camouflage patterns than MARPAT on the civilian market, such as A-TACS, for example.
7:09 am on June 14th, 2011 10
SGM Kent must have his head up his ass. If the MARPAT is determined to be the best camo for soldiers then it doesn’t matter which service currently uses it or came up with it, it needs to be available for all services. It’s one thing to have pride in your branch, but it’s another thing to take it to a level that could actively hurt the other branches. What a stupid argument this is.
8:13 am on June 14th, 2011 11
That’s not cool.
8:29 am on June 14th, 2011 12
“Army officials have said they want soldiers to wear the best possible camouflage”
That’s not so easy because the US has many different climates. I guess the ACU was supposed to be a solution to this because grey is a very difficult colour for the human eye to perceive at a distance. The Marpat might be the best alternative you’ve got (that or something similar, but just a tad greener (but maybe not as much as the CADPAT, which is excellent for Canadian forests since we have lots of pine trees with bright green needles)).
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/850/dsc01573mod5nt.jpg
http://www.uniteddynamics.com/pixelpat/9007.jpg
8:42 am on June 14th, 2011 13
#7,
Yeah, you’re right. I checked pictures and MultiCam looks nice upfront and works well in a variety of terrain and light conditions.
8:44 am on June 14th, 2011 14
Or rather, it looks nice upclose.
8:50 am on June 14th, 2011 15
I’m down with Star Trek type uniforms. We should probably ask NATO and the UN what they think…so as not to offend.
1:51 pm on June 14th, 2011 16
OG-107
http://www.deathvallymag.com/2010/03/13/tactical-gear-if-i-hear-one-more-person-talk-about-how-f-ing-great-multicam-is-i-am-going-to-kick-a-kitten-in-the-head/
Now I know that link isn’t going to work but it is just too cool not to try.
7:22 pm on June 14th, 2011 17
When was the last war that needed an amphibious landing?
When was the last mutiny on a US Navy vessel put down by a Marine detachment?
Hmm, I’m not seeing much need here.
7:51 pm on June 14th, 2011 18
Well in the ACU’s defense, the pattern is really good for a guy trying to hide out in a concrete jungle. And when they were developing and testing that pattern the main “focus” was urban warfare with fights taking place inside streets and buildings. Of course since then we’ve learned that fights are just as common to take place along a barren roadside, or around a scrabble laced hill side. Places that look decidedly non-concrete and where camouflage is significantly more important. The Velcro was a horrible idea period, it falls apart and looks horrible after a few months. Name tapes get all bent and ribbony and the Velcro itself gets dirty and unserviceable once its exposed to a little water, dirt and mud.
Really should of done what the other service branches did and go with sew-on tapes / badges / patches with multiple camo patterns.
8:19 pm on June 14th, 2011 19
Once again:
Authentic MARPAT material is distinguishable by an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor emblem incorporated into the pattern, in both the Woodland and Desert patterns.
http://www.matshelmets.se/pics/us/us-marpat-des-ega.jpg
The Army can’t wear that!
9:22 pm on June 14th, 2011 20
If this MARPAT pattern is determined to be best then it should be selected as the pattern for the US Army because LIVES ARE AT STAKE!!! The eagle, globe, & anchor emblems can be removed. The Marines patrol cap is different from the Army patrol cap & small changes in the fatigues can be made to distinguish the Army from the Marine uniform. When the BDU was the uniform the Army had to roll up the sleeves in warm weather so the outside of the uniform was pulled over the part of the sleeve that was rolled up. The Marines didn’t go through that nonsense, they just rolled up their sleeves. I don’t know if the ACU had the same rules about rolled up sleeves or not. With the BDU’s you had the woodland pattern for the forest & the desert pattern for the desert. What f’ing moron thought that one pattern would be good for both environments? Anyone who has ever worn anything with velcro over a period of time knows that it doesn’t last. Again what special education genius came up with that idea? If the ACU is good for urban environments then keep it for those environments. The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps really needs to pull his head out of his piper.
10:41 pm on June 14th, 2011 21
I don’t think they are allowed to roll up the ACU sleeves, ever. Holy crap it’s hot looking. I guess it helps out with the tattoo policy.
11:59 pm on June 14th, 2011 22
When was the last war that needed an amphibious landing?
We use amphibious operations many times since Inchon, for a variety of reasons. The shortcoming isn’t so much the Marine Corps as it is the lack of amphib shipping. More than that, the Marines bring trained and organized air/ground combat forces which no one else is set up to do.
Going to different US service combat/utility uniforms was a stupid idea from a logistics standpoint. When I saw the jarheads go that route, it made me roll my eyes. The rough side out brown and tan boots were one development worth the whole push, though.
We used to wear service uniforms for non-labor type duties (schoolhouse, training base, etc)- we’ve since migrated to using “fatigues”, which most service components will not allow their members to wear off the base, as a service uniform.
2:47 am on June 15th, 2011 23
“The eagle, globe, & anchor emblems can be removed. The Marines patrol cap is different from the Army patrol cap & small changes in the fatigues can be made to distinguish the Army from the Marine uniform.”
Don’t you know the cloth is woven in a very unique and top secret way that ensures the emblem can’t be removed and the design of the uniform can’t be changed?
4:25 am on June 15th, 2011 24
21: yes. Plus you have the velcro cuffs on the acu. The idea is to loosen the cuffs when you go to heat cat 5 and undo the. Zipper and just use the velcro around the chest.
12:29 pm on June 15th, 2011 25
Teadrinker #23, lol!
5:20 pm on June 15th, 2011 26
#15,
I wouldn’t want to be the one wearing the red jacket out in the field, especially in a 3 man team.
5:27 pm on June 15th, 2011 27
#26 – In the Army Red is for Field Artillery
and Engineers 
7:09 pm on June 15th, 2011 28
#27,
In Star Trek, it’s for the doomed “third ensign”, the role played by an extra.
7:15 pm on June 15th, 2011 29
#28 Oh Awesome. Star Trek and army trivia? Original Star Trek = Security/Engineers Next Generation = Command Path Officers
10:18 pm on June 15th, 2011 30
#27, On the subject of engineers, (RUMINT) it appears the next 2ID commander will be a combat engineer. I’m not sure but I think 2ID was always commanded by maneuver (armor or infantry) officers. If true, I’m curious as to how and why such a decision was made.
12:58 am on June 16th, 2011 31
Ohh no, not the “red shirt” haha. That guy always dies.
2:22 am on June 16th, 2011 32
…sounds like…
…wait for it…
The Wrath of OPKHAN.
4:27 am on June 16th, 2011 33
Leon: combat engineers are considered to be combat arms again. It went back to 12b from 21b. So instead of a maneuver position the slot might be combat arms general
12:04 am on November 16th, 2011 34
In the 1950s, 60s and 70 all military services wore the same ‘fatigue’ uniform. The biggest differences were belt buckles and caps that no one could agree on but millions were spend on them. The marines used the army’s fatigue shirt with their globe and anchor symbol printed on the pocket. Then came the woodland BDUs for the next 20 years. Now we have each service with different battle uniforms using all kinds of patterns. This is insane. The army, air force, marines, and navy need to use a common set of battle uniforms. They can add service unique patches etc. having a woodland green uniform, a desert uniform, and an urban uniform that all services can use is what we need to keep cost low. I think what is driving a lot of the unique service battle uniform need is to make sure each service is properly identified to the press. During the 1st gulf the press could not keep the identity of army and marine personnel separate. They looked the same…….
4:24 am on November 16th, 2011 35
So many different uniforms. Waste, fraud, and abuse of funds by the military machine.
7:10 pm on March 24th, 2012 36
Army needs to quit changing all the time they look ate up doing that. The army and marines should wear the same thing, the USA fighters should dress the same saves the gov money and we look professional. Marpat uniform everyone and don’t change it!
5:06 am on April 2nd, 2012 37
Wow sleeves down, now this? Not busting the army because my father has been in for ten years, but I joined the United States Marine Corps for specific reasons, I loved the highly valued self pride in the corps, and how Marines always specifically distinguished themselves. I respect how the Sergeant major of the Matine Corps is still trying to keep some tradition of the Corps. Again not busting army’s balls , father is currently deployed with The army, just venting over traditions