By That is what Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times thinks:
As we search for paths out of America’s economic crisis, many suggest business as a paradigm for cutting costs. According to my back-of-the-envelope math, top C.E.O.’s earn as much as $1 a second around the clock, partly by cutting medical benefits for employees. So they must be paragons of efficiency, right?
Actually, I’m not so sure. The business sector is dazzlingly productive, but it also periodically blows up our financial system. Yet if we seek another model, one that emphasizes universal health care and educational opportunity, one that seeks to curb income inequality, we don’t have to turn to Sweden. Rather, look to the United States military.
You see, when our armed forces are not firing missiles, they live by an astonishingly liberal ethos — and it works. [NY Times]
You can read more about his thesis at the link, but he is of course very selective in his thinking. First of all the US military has a select group of people that sign a contract to live and work a certain way. America in general doesn’t have the luxury of making every citizen sign a contract that they will live and work a certain way. It would be great if we could deport non-productive citizens to Canada so Teadrinker can take care of them 
  but the fact of the matter is that the US is stuck with its non-productive citizens which continues to grow. Despite the US military being able to off loads its non-productive servicemembers it is now in a budget crunch because of health care costs. There has been repeated talk about cutting health care benefits for the US military. Unless you are seriously injured which you get great health care; the health care you get from the US military mostly consists of being given a prescription for Motrin.Â
As far as pay, is Kristof actually advocating for putting pay scales on the American economy? The US military pay scales are based on rank and time in service, what are the pay scales in the US economy going to be based on? Will each profession have a rank structure and time in service scale? This is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard of to deal with an economic crisis. As far as education this is something that the US military does provide its servicemembers ample opportunity, unfortunately many of the college degrees offered to Soldiers are from non-rigorous online programs that are where in my opinion the servicemembers are not learning as much as from a actual college classroom setting.   The child care in the US military is good and what you pay is based on rank. I guess Kristof is advocating for yet another massive and inefficient government bureacracy where every neighborhood will have some government run child care center. It will probably be ran as well as the public schools. Also if Kristof thinks the US military system is so great I wonder if he is for getting rid of all labor unions since the US military has no labor union? I could go on and on but I think everyone gets the point.
The bottom line on all of this is that Kristof’s liberal fantasy based off a US military model is not feasible unless non-productive citizens can be deported and those that remain agree to live and work a certain lifestyle. Even with the advantages of getting rid of the non-productive and agreements to live and work a certain way the US military is finding that this lifestyle is expensive to maintain and is being forced to cut it by the US government. Kristof is going to have look elsewhere to find his liberal fantasyland.
By the way you can read more on this over at Tom Ricks site.
10:33 pm on June 16th, 2011 1
Yeah you can’t model a society based off the US Military. Not unless your also modeling an authoritarian regime to go along with it. The US Military is not a democracy, you don’t get to choose many things, you don’t vote on your leadership, and you most certainly don’t get “welfare”. You sign up to sacrifice many of your constitutional rights to defend the constitutional rights of others. In return the Military promise’s to take care of you and your family.
10:55 pm on June 16th, 2011 2
Nicholas Kristof is an example of how education sometimes doesn’t mean crap.
11:37 pm on June 16th, 2011 3
I like to ask who is non-productive citizen? Krostof, it seems that you may be a productive.. $ one million per year? Or sorry GI makes only few thousands per month. If not making, all go to a camp? And I did not know GIs are designated for mfg. purpose.
11:48 pm on June 16th, 2011 4
“I like to ask who is non-productive citizen?”
America is full of them… living off the labor of those who are productive.
I double-dog-dare someone to argue with me on this.
12:20 am on June 17th, 2011 5
Yeah things are getting pretty bad stateside from what I’m being told. Too many people been on government welfare for too long, its become their lifestyle and they have the power of the vote. Any politician that touch’s welfare has to brace for a backlash by the opposing party.
12:21 am on June 17th, 2011 6
Sadly, GI Korea takes a cheap swipe at public education. In another thread, we’ve discussed this extensively. The white and asian kids in our public schools perform at world-class levels. Kids from historically marginalized groups don’t. (I’m speaking of averages in both cases. There are of course exceptions.)
Non-productive citizens? How about the banksters who crashed the economy. How about overpaid CEOs who export our jobs? They have negative productivity!
As to Kristof, he’s a mainstream media pundit. I will not dirty my mouse with a click to his link.
12:24 am on June 17th, 2011 7
#4 C’mon Ttak-degaree…everyone knows that those welfare babymommas keep all kinds of people employed: social workers, food stamp producers, police and paramedics (for the occasional overdose), housing project supers…the list goes on and on. Can’t imagine the ‘American Dream’ without that…
1:02 am on June 17th, 2011 8
It’s not often a liberal admits that Socialism = Authoritarianism. He’s part right at least.
1:03 am on June 17th, 2011 9
What the heck my posts don’t seem to be making it through….
2:54 am on June 17th, 2011 10
Liz your post got put into the spam que because of the word socialist. The Akismet spam filter technology pegs that word as spam because the word “cialis” is within the world. It is just one of those weird software quirks that hopefully Akismet will get around to addressing. Regardless I pulled your comment from the spam que.
2:58 am on June 17th, 2011 11
I always thought of it as more communist than liberal. Free health care, subsidized food and gas, company stores, etc … in exchange for giving up some freedom and obeying the commander without question in most cases. Works fine in the military, but I’d pass on a society built that way. That said, the military has long been progressive (in the original sense of the word) on things like civil rights.
3:14 am on June 17th, 2011 12
GI Korea 10, even a mention of this subject is forbidden? I had no idea.
5:11 am on June 17th, 2011 13
Akismet has Cialis as a spam word because many people leave spam cialis comments on blogs. The spam filter along with Project Honeypot captures hundreds of spam comments a day and occasionally some still make it through and on to the site. If I turned off the spam filter the comments section would be unreadable due to the cialis, gay porn, regular porn, dating sites, viagra, etc. spam comments.
5:38 am on June 17th, 2011 14
Something I noticed in poor communities in the US – a lot of the people on welfare have jobs and are hard workers (typically getting paid under the table). But they have become so used to the welfare – they treat it as part of their income and livelihood – and the thought of ever giving it up is out of the question.
5:45 am on June 17th, 2011 15
Aw…
Can’t the spam filter be adjusted to let the gay poorn come through?
9:04 am on June 17th, 2011 16
Guitard #14, it’s not so much the ability to work in some cases because working under the table for cash is done at a lot of levels. The issue is the medical care that comes along with public assistance. It’s hard to work under the table for health care. “Hey Doc, I’ll snake your sewer line if you check my prostate.”
Chickenhead #4, I’ll argue with you. America isn’t “full” of them, but there are certainly enough of them to go around.
9:28 am on June 17th, 2011 17
#11
“That said, the military has long been progressive (in the original sense of the word) on things like civil rights.”
You make it sound like civil rights in the military sprung from some grass roots movement. Almost no change occurs in the military from the bottom up. It is almost all top-down directed. Civil right was instituted because the President ordered it.
Anyway, I had read the subject article before it was referenced here. I came away believing I had just read a sarcastic commentary by calling some exaggerated aspects of the military “liberal” to play off the common perception that the military is very conservative.
Maybe I’m the one with the reading comprehension problem.
9:35 am on June 17th, 2011 18
#11
You are CORRECT.
11:13 am on June 17th, 2011 19
Dragonfly,
“Chickenhead #4, I’ll argue with you. America isn’t “full” of them, but there are certainly enough of them to go around.”
Hmmm… if I had a jar that had 1 bee for every 5 bee-sized air spaces, I’d say the jar was full of bees.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/12/news/economy/government_safety_net/index.htm
Not all of these people are chronic welfare cases… but many of the ones who are “temporarily” taking some form of government assistance during these rough times have lots of nice things they bought/got on credit when times were good… as opposed to the more “intelligent” people who thought ahead, saved money, and took care of themselves… and who have lived/are living a lesser lifestyle because they don’t have their hands out and nobody would give them anything if they did.
I have zero funking pity for people who bought overpriced houses that they knew were above their lifestyle… furnished with credit/rent-to-own furnishings… along with a couple of new cars… right at the edge of their income.
…and I am almost hateful when it all turns to shyt and the government comes along and helps them out with MY money for their selfishness/greed/stupidity…
…especially when responsible people who made rational choices/personal sacrifices/reasonable decisions to live within their means get nothing but the tax bill.
Funk these people and their families. Make an example of them. Put them in FEMA camps. Give their children free, quality education along with a desire to get the hell out and be productive citizens who can take care of themselves and make good decision that balance immediate gain with long-term possibilities.
People who take government money should have no rights.
As a compassionate society, they should be fed and sheltered… and they should be given education and opportunity… but they should have no possessions, no luxuries, and no joys in life. They should have one goal and one goal only… to be self sufficient… and to get the hell off the public tit.
This, of course, does not apply to a guy with no arms, or brain cancer, or one big, blind eye in the center of his forehead, etc.
But many of the people on public assistance are young and have a strong back… and are there because the System pays more to sit at home in front of a rent-to-own flatscreen in public housing with cable and a regular supply of drugs than it pays to do the Jobs Americans Won’t Do.
Perhaps Kushibo can enlighten us further on ghetto/barrio/trailer park culture… but these places are full of primates and hunter-gatherers in a post-industrial age…. for which everything is impulse and satisfaction with little thought of the past and no concept of the future. Government money is just another available resource to fill an immediate need.
And the System is structured to include more people into this situation rather than get them out.
The majority of people going through bad times with their hands out for public money brought it on themselves to a large extent.
As a guy who pays American taxes and foots some of this bill, I am resentful toward them. Funk them. There are lots of things I would like for myself but instead chose to put that money away for a rainy day.
Then, again… maybe I am the stupid one for not taking advantage of what is available.
I should have my cake and eat it, too…
…while YOU pay.
11:24 am on June 17th, 2011 20
But Chickenhead, in your jar there’s still room for more bees. I think bloodsuckers would have been a better analogy than bees. Bees are quite industrious and bloodsuckers are, bloodsuckers. One in a jar is too much.
12:50 pm on June 17th, 2011 21
I’m telling you – a lot of them do work. They gladly work. They work hard. But they do it all under the table – and they continue accepting welfare and disability because to them it’s not gov’t assistance – it’s part of their income that figures into their family budget. Everyone around them is doing it – it’s the normal thing to do. There is ZERO shame in doing it. They openly admit it to you if they know you.
1:08 pm on June 17th, 2011 22
That’s one of the problems with the whole system. It’s apparently “normal” in that there is no shame in doing it. I applied for social security the other day. Just looking around the waiting room and listening to people, you could tell pretty quick who was there applying for benefits after having worked their whole lives, and who was there looking for a disability check. Judgmental, I know. But I’ll bet I was batting about .970 when it came to sizing up the room. I guess I can be thankful I grew up in a home that promoted a strong work ethic and making your own way in life as opposed to looking for, and EXPECTING others to fill in the gaps.
4:04 pm on June 17th, 2011 23
I think you are missing his point. The US military does things that are the antithesis of Teatard philosophy. For one thing-it provides universal health care for all its people, invests in their education, and provides support when they hit hard times. Not welfare-but real help.
He also is correct when he cites the military pay scale as an illustration of the problems generated by America’s income inequality.
Its you who is wrong-with your Randesque vision of “moochers” who are somehow “stealing”from you. It’s not them who are robbing you blind-its the top 1% of income earners who are making it harder and harder for the rest of the herd to advance. And by the way-are not hiring veterans so very much either. Wall Street types look down on those who took time out early on to serve.
Go back and read the article again and take the blinders off-does the word allegory ring a bell?
4:23 pm on June 17th, 2011 24
Yes! Another poster with a classic anime character FTW! I’ve been trying to talk about Danwei’s and Deng Xiaoping being the opposite of this guy but that would involve talking about -ism with Chinese chraracteristics so it gets akismet blocked.
4:34 pm on June 17th, 2011 25
Y’all don’t seem to get the high irony of ‘Atlas Shrugged’. The real hero is Wesley Mouch.
7:26 pm on June 17th, 2011 26
It would be interesting to try and impose the types of restrictions we have in military housing onto other types of government housing. The structures would last a heck of a lot longer and look a lot better. And they’d be safer. Of course the civil rights lawyers would step in and put an end to that.
6:01 pm on June 18th, 2011 27
I read Kristol’s article. I really liked his utopian view of Army services. I remember being a Private a little differently, the mess halls shutting at 4p.m. on the weekends. Confused, illogical, petty NCO’s at least until I became one. Officers with bizarre and unrelated college degrees doing work totally unsuited to them, thus making life miserable for the twenty plus people under “their command.” The whole Hooah mediocrity thing. But, in essence I agree with Kristol and GI Soju, we should absolutely abolish police, fire, and teacher labor unions. If Police officers, teachers, and firefighters want a change they can write their congressman or talk to the Inspector General. Most teachers I see around where I live need to get hair cuts and do more push-ups anyways.
Which sadly brings us back to the King Kong gorilla in the room sitting on the donkey and elephant, K Street. Unions, corporations, foreign interests, religions, ethnocentrists, narcissists, and all manner of organized ilk are now entitled to fund whatever political action agenda they please without limit or public disclosure.
But whatever on the bright side, I just read 72% of the rapidly growing number of emigrating Chinese millionaires are investing in and moving to the United States. Isn’t all just so ironic.
8:11 pm on June 19th, 2011 28
@27,
Agree with ya on all that. Life in the Army wasn’t rose’s, you had a set schedule that you were expected to live by, else you had to fend for yourself. Lots of restrictions but they did take care of the essentials.
I also agree that giving “interest groups” the ability to donate as much money in whatever fashion they wanted, all while not requiring disclosure is just a disaster waiting to happen. As if this country isn’t already controlled enough by political interest groups.