By GI Korea on June 26th, 2011 at 3:43 am

ROK Drop Open Thread- June 26, 2011

• setnaffa
  5:14 am on June 26th, 2011 1

  Is all crime the result of government-sponsored racism and pollution?

  a. http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2221691&spid=

  b. http://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=231

  c. http://www2.hernandotoday.com/content/2008/may/27/ha-toxins-can-be-source-of-crime-professor-says/

  Or is those articles just signs of the End Times?

  http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=%202%20Timothy%203:1-9;%202%20Timothy%204:3-4;%20Romans%201:18-32;%201%20Corinthians%201:18-31&version=KJV;NASB

• setnaffa
  5:17 am on June 26th, 2011 2

  “are those articles”… I should always edit my posts in Word before posting them…

• Jinro Dukkohbi
  5:23 am on June 26th, 2011 3

  USFK Report Confirms Dioxin Pollution at Camp Carroll

  They did?….and confirmed AA was buried there too? Must have missed this earlier…or is this another attempt at media-over-hype? So does this (if its true) mean Steve House & co. are getting paid….??

  http://english.kbs.co.kr/News/News/News_view.html?page=1&No=82475&id=Dm

• GI Korea
  5:55 am on June 26th, 2011 4

  @3 – The fact that dioxin has been found over the years at Camp Carroll is nothing new. All the findings have been low, harmless levels. However, if Agent Orange was buried at Camp Carroll and USFK has been going around claiming they have found no evidence that it was, this would be hugely embarrassing.

  I will have to see more to believe this KBS report because I just can’t believe USFK would be so stupid to try and try to hide from the Korean public that Agent Orange was burid at Camp Carroll. I guess in the next few days this will play out and we will see if it is true.

• setnaffa
  9:23 am on June 26th, 2011 5

  Every old power transformer contains dioxins.

  Claiming it was Agent Orange is just nork or useful-idiot propaganda.

  Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioxins_and_dioxin-like_compounds#General_sources_of_exposure

  Sources

  Dioxins are produced as by-products of incomplete combustion and some chemical processes, including natural ones.[40]

  General sources of exposure

  Dioxins enter the physical environment by release during:

  Combustion
  Metal smelting and refining
  Manufacturing of chlorinated chemicals
  Paper bleaching
  Natural biological and photochemical processes
  Mobilization from environmental reservoirs (e.g., stirred sediments)

• Floridaegu
  4:49 am on June 27th, 2011 6

  In Defense of Flogging http://defenseofflogging.com/

  I’ve been looking at our prison system lately. A quick search will easily turn up results that are disturbing. Not only does America have the highest incarceration rate in the world, but we probably pay the most per prisoner. I think the average cost to house a prisoner for one year is about $22,000. We’re talking about a multi-billion dollar business here!

  If the point of prison is rehabilitation, then we’re doing a poor job. If the point of prison is punishment, then why don’t we consider flogging? If it so barbaric then ask yourself this: if given the choice between hard time or flogging, which would you choose? I bet you chose flogging. Why? Because it is more humane to take your punishment quickly and move on. It satisfies society’s need for punishment, the victim’s need for justice, and the convicted’s need to have a half chance of reintegration.

  We would save millions of dollars. We wouldn’t have to break up families. The wrongfully convicted and punished would be easier to compensate. We could, if necessary, follow up with probation. The public humiliation of a flogging is a great deterrent. And we can really focus on imprisoning the truly violent in our society.

• kangaji
  5:47 am on June 27th, 2011 7

  Constitution says no. Cruel and unusual punishment. Also, think of all the black people getting flogged by white guards. It just doesn’t work for political imagery.

• Floridaegu
  7:13 am on June 27th, 2011 8

  It’s cruel to put someone in a cage to be potentially raped and beaten for years. It’s only unusual until it isn’t. The usual practice of flogging continued until about 100 years ago. If the convicted were given a choice, with their full understanding, then is it still cruel? There could be a limit, like Singapore has, on the number of lashes say, 26. There would also be immediate medical treatment to ensure the convict didn’t perish from infection. If it was unconstitutional, it should have stopped after 1787 or shortly thereafter.

  I didn’t consider that last part, but I’m sure affirmative action would ensure a few black guards flogging white convicts.

  Although, not as severe, but related, corporal punishment for CHILDREN is still in effect in many states, but rarely used. Corporal punishment used to be common in the military until as late as the ’80′s.

• Retired GI
  7:38 am on June 27th, 2011 9

  “It’s cruel to put someone in a cage to be potentially raped and beaten for years.”

  Here’s a thought: Perhaps they did something of the same nature to end up in a cage.

  But it is cruel. That is why I favor the Death Penalty.

• ChickenHead
  10:44 am on June 27th, 2011 10

  Floridaegu,

  There are two points to prison…

  …and they are neither rehabilitation nor punishment.

  Since I support flogging as a cheap and expedient punishment for an instant gratification society which only comprehends short-term punishment and reward, I hope you will understand the two real reasons for prison and modify your message accordingly.

  1. Isolation. Prison (eventually) removes repeat offenders from society where it is likely cheaper to keep them than allowing them to repeatedly consume expensive law enforcement and court time… as well as added insurance costs, costs to business… and, eventually, cost to other citizens.

  Once in prison, they are unlikely to get a good job when they get out… meaning they are likely to re-offend… meaning it is better just to keep them there and throw away the key. Once they enter the prison system, the concept of “rehabilitation” is just a ruse to keep the liberal do-gooders happy. Any real skill training or “rehabilitation” has one purpose and one purpose only and that is…

  2. Cheap Labor. Most people don’t understand that prisoners are used as low-cost labor by companies that lobby for more criminalization and harsher sentencing so they can get even more low-cost labor.

  This is perpetuated by the For Profit prison system that strives to increase government payment-per-prisoner while spending as little as possible… and making profit on the back end by supplying cheap labor to the highest-bidding companies.

  The military-industrial complex, which has made a killing for the last ten years of war with high volume and high profit, is the worst offender.

  This says it as well as I can:

  “The federal prison industry produces 100% of all military helmets, ammunition belts, bullet-proof vests, ID tags, shirts, pants, tents, bags, and canteens. Along with war supplies, prison workers supply 98% of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93% of paints and paintbrushes; 92% of stove assembly; 46% of body armor; 36% of home appliances; 30% of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21% of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies, and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.”

  So, rehabilitation and punishment don’t really figure into it all. It, like everything else, is all about the money.

• kushibo
  10:59 am on June 27th, 2011 11

  ChickenHead, you are right isolation is one of the goals of incarceration, and that would make Floridaegu’s flogging idea a nonstarter for a variety of convicted criminals.

  But rehabilitation is in fact a goal of incarceration, at least in some jurisdictions and for some crimes. This would be particularly so in cash-strapped states where the cheap labor being sold falls short of what’s needed to house the inmates.

  You wrote:
  

  Cheap Labor. Most people don’t understand that prisoners are used as low-cost labor by companies that lobby for more criminalization and harsher sentencing so they can get even more low-cost labor.

  That is very disturbing, but if it were true, not wholly unsurprising. This is why we need publicly-financed campaigns, so politicians are less susceptible to monied influence like this.

  It’s rather disturbing that some of the people handling your credit card information on the phone are talking to you from prison (or so I’ve read sometime in the recently ended decade).

• Jeff Fisher
  9:40 am on June 28th, 2011 12

  FLORIDAEGUE #6: Chickenhead & Retired GI got to you before I could but I have to get my 2 cents just to vent a bit. It is Liberals like you that want to feel warm and fuzzy inside that came up with the BS that created the situation of our prison system situation. Take the”Miranda” rights for example. What a dumb idea. Establishing the truth soon after a crime is important. Give the perp time to concoct a story with a lawyer that does not want justice to be served but wants to win a case to boost his credentials to boost his wealth at the
  expense of the victims and society. Oh! You are such a kind and caring person. The question that begs to be answered by pablum pukers like you is, if your ox was the
  one that is being gorged, your child or wife having been
  raped or murdered, how would you react, what would be the just punishment would you mete out? You and those few like you are the problem.

• Denny
  2:29 pm on June 28th, 2011 13

  Singer Im Jae Bum wears Nazi uniform at concert.

  http://www.allkpop.com/2011/06/im-jae-bum-explains-the-use-of-a-nazi-uniform-for-his-concert

  On June 25th, singer Im Jae Bum shocked many when he donned a Nazi uniform at his latest two-day concert at the Seoul Olympic Sports Stadium. As a part of his concert repertory, he wore the Nazi uniform for three of the songs while shouting, “Hail freedom” and “Hitler is dead“, as he took off his jacket.

  This stirred curiosity regarding the meaning behind the outfit and the message he was trying to portray.

  On June 28th, in response to the issue, the singer’s representatives expressed their stance on the issue through Star News by explaining, “The rumor that Im Jae Bum supports the Nazis is wrong. Because Im Jae Bum is someone who used to do rock music, in order to portray a strong meaning at the concert, he laid out this performance on a whim. He presented this performance to display an ironic meaning.”

• kushibo
  2:44 pm on June 28th, 2011 14

  Im Jaebun?! Damn, why couldn’t it be Park Jaebum. He’s my all-time favorite.

  But really, Nazi uniforms? Even if meant ironically, he should know better. I don’t care if he did just see “Inglorious Basterds” or pictures of Prince Harry dressed up as a Nazi officer (?) or whatever, there’s no excuse!

• ChickenHead
  3:03 pm on June 28th, 2011 15

  Jeff Fisher…

  I’m not entirely sure Floridaegu is a liberal.

  Flogging instead of prison is not exactly a warm and fuzzy liberal cause one might find Opera pushing.

• Floridaegu
  7:47 pm on June 28th, 2011 16

  

  Boy, I didn’t expect to be called a liberal today.

  Chickenhead, I can’t speak to the cheap labor portion of your argument because I don’t have enough information about that.

  I’m not against punishment or isolation or rehabilitation for convicts. Like I said in the last line of #6, Retired GI and Jeff, “…we can really focus on imprisoning the truly violent in our society.” 26 lashes may not be enough punishment for murderers and rapists. 26 lashes may be enough punishment for someone convicted for 10 – 12 years for armed robbery or maybe manslaughter.

  I think flogging is something that should be considered and not simply brushed aside. It has economic and social benefits over incarceration. Consider this: If someone robbed you, how is sending him to jail going to help society or the victim? In addition to flogging the convict can be release back into society to work (he’ll look for work because that flogging will be constant reminder) and a small percentage can be garnished to pay back restitution for all parties involved (another reminder). Would you commit another crime if you were publicly flogged and humiliated, then had to work knowing that a piece of your labor was going back to the victim? (I know I didn’t include the restitution part in my opening.) Let’s keep options open.

  Jeff – Your brand of conservatism is scary. It’s that type of thinking that is gutting the Constitution. The 5th Amendment is about protecting your right from self-incrimination. The truth will be established by evidence and any supposed lies that the suspect is spinning will be easily discredited. If your suspect doesn’t wish to talk will you beat them? It’s easy to see the “benefits” of beating the suspect into talking to establish the truth. But what if you’re wrong? What if your beaten suspect is innocent and later you find the real perp? Sorry’s not going to cut it. May I offer the option of flogging or would you prefer jail time? hmm?

  It’s about protecting rights while doing the right thing. Speed is important, but not at the expense of innocents.

  Please stop by my blog. I haven’t written in a while because I haven’t been moved, lately. But you’ll note that I am far from a post-FDR liberal or a Nixon/GW Bush conservative. Go Ron Paul!

• ChickenHead
  8:19 pm on June 28th, 2011 17

  I used to be an advocate of flogging. It still may have its place.

  The problem with many of the solutions to crime is that the people coming up with the solutions really have no idea what the average “criminal” is like.

  Most small-time criminals just don’t think that far ahead.

  Sure, if you ask them, they don’t want to be flogged… in an academic way.

  But, when a pair of $250 sneakers is just sitting there, the mental calculus concerning risk and reward that we might employ does not even cross their mind.

  And, if you flog them, they will be back into a life of crime as soon as the sting wears off… as they have no skills and no ability to get a job… but they still want to eat, drink, funk, and get high.

  This already exists with large segments of the population which are perpetually involved in an overwhelmed court system… much of it for paperwork/procedural violations relating to previous legal encounters.

  I guess flogging could streamline this procedure, though.

  Containment, isolation, a non-politically-correct military that will beat socialization into them… sterilization to reduce the problem on a generalization level… that might work.

  The problem is vast and expanding… and the government is encouraging the problem rather than stopping it.

• Glans
  1:08 am on July 1st, 2011 18

  ‘The most pronounced development in banking today is that executives have become bolder as their business has gotten worse,’ says Jesse Eisinger.

• Glans
  3:13 am on July 2nd, 2011 19

  Relations with China will be difficult, but possibly less difficult if it democratizes. Aaron L Friedberg discusses ‘hegemony with Chinese characteristics’ at NationalInterest.

• Glans
  10:28 pm on July 2nd, 2011 20

  China refused to allow the United States to send non-lethal supplies through its territory to our bases in Afghanistan. Here’s the story, based on the notorious leaked cables, in the Washington Post.

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