ROK Drop

Avatar of GI KoreaBy on July 31st, 2011 at 5:50 am

Japanese Lawmakers Forbidden From Visiting Ulleungdo Island

Well it is good to see that the Korean government finally put these lawmakers from Japan trying to create tension on the Dokdo front on the no entry list:

The government has placed four Japanese lawmakers who are planning to visit Ulleung Island on Monday on its entry ban list as part of a bid to thwart the neighboring country’s territorial claim over Korea’s Dokdo islets.

The Foreign Ministry on Thursday notified the Justice Ministry of the personal information of the four conservative Liberal Democratic Party lawmakers who were planning to visit the island.

The Justice Ministry ordered immigration officials to turn them back if they go ahead with their visit as planned. The delegation looks to be headed up by Liberal Democratic Party lawmaker Yoshitaka Shindo, who serves as the proxy head of the party committee handling the Dokdo issue.  [Chosun Ilbo]

When I went to Ulleungdo from Mukho harbor, there was a custom agent that checks all passports and plays 20 questions with you on why you want to go to Dokdo and Ulleungdo.  So clearly these Japanese politicians were not going to get on the boat and were just doing all of this to agitate and score cheap political points in Japan.  I wonder if there is an election coming up in Japan?

With that said though one of the purposes of their visit was to visit the Dokdo Museum to point out historical errors at the museum, which is a legitimate issue, but it seems like Japan should provide accurate information in their own historical museum before condemning Korea.

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  • Orbit
    10:45 am on July 31st, 2011 1

    That’s true. Japan even teaches their kids Japan attacked pearl harbor because USA was the aggressor during the World War 2 and they feared they were going to be the next. Lol. Good thing we have internet now a days.

  • Chris In Dallas
    1:37 pm on July 31st, 2011 2

    Korea should give Takeshima back to Japan.

  • rockon
    4:19 pm on July 31st, 2011 3

    @1 If you check the policies and action of the US before the invasion it’s pretty clear the US was acting aggressively with the intent of hurting Japan economically.

    That part of history rarely gets into the US textbooks but it is a fact. If you think the US doesn’t have false history in its school books, check out Columbus. Jeesh. Did he really discover America. C’mon.

  • Orbit
    5:08 pm on July 31st, 2011 4

    #5 So if somebody’s trying to hurt your economy, you bomb their navy base? Makes perfect sense. Yes I’m pretty sure USA have false history in school books, but not even close to japan. Japan is probably is the biggest liars when it comes to history. Especially during world war 1 – world war 2 era.

  • Orbit
    5:30 pm on July 31st, 2011 5

    And how the hell was japan not the agrresor? They were INVADING other countries? I guess according to your defintion, Germany wasn’t aggresor either?

  • RealDeal
    8:48 pm on July 31st, 2011 6

    @Orbit and Rockon:

    I think both the US and Japan are grossly guilty of distorting their own history books.

    Japan is partly right in that the US were the initial aggressors. Maybe not in WWII, but in the 19th century when Commodore Perry, an American, basically threatened Japan to open its trade ports to the US. The came Pearl Harbor. All is fair in love and WAR.

    The US, is probably more dumb in their version of history. You name it, they have it: Columbus Day, a federal holiday; What really happened to Native Americans by the English/Americans; and pretty much everything else.

  • RealDeal
    8:49 pm on July 31st, 2011 7

    ^^^^
    Correction: “The[n] came Pearl Harbor.”

  • Orbit
    10:03 pm on July 31st, 2011 8

    Moderator says I should stop childish comments, when chris in dallas (or rockon) was being childish first, calling me chosenjin first and also said yamato race shoudl’ve conlonized Korea to this day. On top of that, The moderator(whoever you are) deletes all of chirs in dallas’ racist and insult comments towards me, yet he crosses line over my sentence insulting him. wow…..

  • Orbit
    10:06 pm on July 31st, 2011 9

    Is this why I dont see Tom anymore? Maybe this moderator blocked Tom from commenting.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    10:51 pm on July 31st, 2011 10

    Orbit, I deleted all the comments that seemed to be nothing more than attempts to insult and inflame – including, as you noticed, Chris’.

    I left one comment visible – with strikethrough – and a message to cut out the childishness. I chose your comment to make the point, because you were going on a couple of threads doing nothing but writing short insults meant to silence debate, not engage in it.

    As for Tom, I guess he went away for awhile once his short, useless, trolling comments started getting deleted.

    Engage in debate. Disagree. Even disagree heatedly. But debate takes more than 1 or 2 sentences with nothing but insults.

  • kushibo
    11:09 pm on July 31st, 2011 11

    @1 If you check the policies and action of the US before the invasion it’s pretty clear the US was acting aggressively with the intent of hurting Japan economically.

    That part of history rarely gets into the US textbooks but it is a fact. If you think the US doesn’t have false history in its school books, check out Columbus. Jeesh. Did he really discover America. C’mon.

    And just what was the reason for the petroleum embargo? Saying the US was cutting off energy to Japan so Japan attacked is grossly misleading. It starts the story with the US’s action which was actually a reaction to Japanese aggression on the Asian mainland, with invasions of China and European colonies in East Asia.

    And by the way, at Pearl Harbor at least, they do point out that the American side had put an embargo on the Japanese. It’s actually a very fair and objective presentation of the origins of the attack. It stands in sharp contrast with the museum at Yasukuni Shrine, which blames the US for forcing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor and accuses FDR of pushing for such a thing in order to get the US out of the Great Depression, while also calling the peace treaty a form of coercion and therefore not valid.

  • kushibo
    11:14 pm on July 31st, 2011 12

    So if Tom writes something non-inflammatory and productive, it will get past the moderators, right?

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    11:47 pm on July 31st, 2011 13

    Yes.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    11:51 pm on July 31st, 2011 14

    If you stop in an American high school history classroom, you are likely to see more time spent on the US internment of Japanese citizens on American soil than you will Pearl Harbor or fighting during the war or what Japan was doing in China and Korea that led up to the war.

  • Turner
    5:18 pm on August 1st, 2011 15

    If their sole purpose was to correct mistakes in the Dokdo Museum, that would be a LONG trip; that museum is filled with nothing but propaganda and blatant attempts to insult the Japanese, e.g. “Japan’s absurd territorial claims over Dokdo”. Could have made the same point without absurd, couldn’t they?

  • John in CA
    5:31 pm on August 1st, 2011 16

    #1
    “Good thing we have internet now a days.”

    Too bad that doesn’t always lead to more informed populace.

    #3
    Japan had annexed Korean and in an active war in China. Enough said.

    #15
    So you are saying Japan has a valid claim over Dokdo?

  • rockon
    6:33 pm on August 1st, 2011 17

    I’m not sure why so many people are getting worked up here. I think we all agree that govt’s brainwash citizens and truncate historical facts for their own special purposes.

    How? Because people are asleep. Or, if you believe someone like Chomsky, the purpose of education in the US is to make people stupid. Heck, look at the snow job Bush pulled on the world. Democracy to Iraq. WMD. Al Qaeda. Bohaha.

  • RealDeal
    8:12 pm on August 1st, 2011 18

    @Turner:
    “If their sole purpose was to correct mistakes in the Dokdo Museum, that would be a LONG trip; that museum is filled with nothing but propaganda and blatant attempts to insult the Japanese, e.g. ‘Japan’s absurd territorial claims over Dokdo’. Could have made the same point without absurd, couldn’t they?”

    1. Insulting the Japanese is only a reaction. I think Japan deserves it considering what the Japanese people did to the Koreans for almost 75 yrs. I’d be upset too.
    2. “Absurd” is quite fitting considering Dokdo is Korean. It’s like Mexico declaring that Texas is still theirs. Japan gave up Korea after WWII. This includes Dokdo since it is KOREAN. Check the maps that outlined Korea after WWII. Plus, the Japanese can’t even see Dokdo from their country while Koreans can clearly see Dokdo from their side.
    3. The international community already has determined that Dokdo is part of S. Korea.

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    8:47 pm on August 1st, 2011 19

    Yes. If Chompsky is someone believed in, the word stupid does come to mind…

  • rockon
    1:55 am on August 2nd, 2011 20

    @19. If you don’t mind, please allow me to clean up your mental droppings.

    Yes. If Chompsky is someone TO BE believed in, THEN the word stupid does come to mind…

    Also allow me to paraphrase. When reading some of the posts on this blog, the word….

  • kangaji
    8:15 am on August 2nd, 2011 21

    I went to Yasukuni shrine a little bit after AIT, since I had enough money saved up to go to Japan for a while. Before you enter a shrine, you have to wash your hands and mouth with water by the entrace to the shrine. You are supposed to keep your words clean. Well, that lasted all of about ten seconds once I set foot in the museum and started reading the displays. The whole train incident in Manchuria REALLY WAS a terrorist attack! Those Chinese terrorists had to pay for what they did to the innocent Japanese! Oh yeah, it’s awesome seeing the official letter of the Kamikaze pilot in front of the shrine, but if you get access to the archives building you could conceivably find the uncensored letters where the guy is basically being coerced to fly the plane and doesn’t really want to die… and then there’s the statue of the obstinate Dr. Pal, who was totally defending the Japanese to get back at Great Britain and the museum completely misses the point on that one. The museum gift shop was pretty cool though.

    I enlisted at MEPS station Pearl Harbor. One time a Japanese friend said he wanted to see Pearl Harbor, so I gave him the tour, not letting him near the Arizona, and basically ended it on the Missouri. Before we went I asked him if he knew why that battleship was important in history. On the tour, they have head phones with tour information that comes up by a number you press into a keypad. So, when we got to the surrender deck, at the spot where the war ended, and had him press the number.

    Hmmm… incidentally we also went to the prison museum at Seodaemun a few years earlier. My friend is half Korean/half Japanese… I guess I’m cruel when it comes to history.

    Kushibo knows one of my friends in Hawaii. On December 7 (ofcourse it would be December 8) in Japan I asked her “Do you know what day it is?” She didn’t. “Pearl Harbor Day”. She asked me “Is it a holiday or something?”

    So, I think that Dokdo and Pearl Harbor are really important to Koreans and Americans but most Japanese young people could care less about them.

    Still, you’ve got the big picture to worry about, Diaoyu and Sakhalin…

  • kushibo
    8:19 am on August 2nd, 2011 22

    Kangaji, I took that friend’s friend to the USS Arizona Memorial, and when looking around at all the exhibits, she noted that all this was terrible, but then she said, “but Japan had no choice but to attack, right?”

  • kangaji
    8:29 am on August 2nd, 2011 23

    You can argue that it’s the fault of US cold war politics that she thinks that way.

  • Chris In Dallas
    9:44 am on August 2nd, 2011 24

    18 @ RealDeal:

    “2. “Absurd” is quite fitting considering Dokdo is Korean. It’s like Mexico declaring that Texas is still theirs.”

    Actually its a common sentiment in Mexico that Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and at least parts of California and Oklahoma ARE theirs! I’ll freely admit Japan’s claim to the islets is awfully weak. But they are not entirely baseless.

  • kushibo
    12:42 pm on August 2nd, 2011 25

    Yup. And no American ever gets upset about Chicanos mentioning Aztlán.

    Anyway, if Japan’s claim is not entirely baseless, it’s pretty close, resting as it did on taking over Korea first as a protectorate and then as full-blown annexed territory, two treaties it later declared null and void.

    The Japan Times even acknowledged that…

    The islets were placed under Korean sovereignty in 1900. Shimane incorporated the islands into the prefecture in 1905, after Japan seized them during the Russo-Japanese war.

    … but it mysteriously removed that (under pressure?) later on.

  • Chris In Dallas
    12:49 pm on August 2nd, 2011 26

    I don’t know why rightful American Anti-Aztlan sentiment matters to this. And like I said, the Japanese claim is week. But to turn a museum into a propaganda organ? Its a bit much…

  • ChickenHead
    5:26 pm on August 2nd, 2011 27

    The Mexicans can claim Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Southern California, etc.

    It is part of Mexican Exceptionalism…

    …but, in this case, it means Exceptionally Dysfunctional.

    Fortunately, possession is nine tenths of the law.

    Mexico can talk all they want about gaining possession and control of those areas… presumably so they can be screwed up like the rest of their country instead of just taking advantage of the golden egg-laying goose like they do now. But Mexico hasn’t been known to do anything right since the 50s or so.

    Dokdo, is in kind of the same boat. Korea has it. Japan does not. Unless Japan invades, Korea should just act like the cool kid and say, “Whatever, dude,” any time Japan brings it up.

    To Korea’s credit, they are doing what America self-destructingly won’t… not allowing meddling Japanese to gain a foothold in any way.

    I might add that Korea is missing the REAL propaganda opportunity here.

    Instead of whining around about how it is Ours instead of Theirs based on this document or that document, they need to play up Despite How Japan Invaded and Occupied For Hundreds Of Years, We Managed To Beat Them Out Of The Island So Go Korea!

  • Chris In Dallas
    7:08 pm on August 2nd, 2011 28

    27: I think a better tactic would be to go Spartan on the Japanese. You want it? Come and get it!

  • rockon
    7:14 pm on August 2nd, 2011 29

    @Chickenhead.

    Good strategic thinking. But someone is bound to point out that some people cooperated with the Japanese masters and that their families continue to reap the rewards of those actions today.

    Maybe its best to leave out the “heroic” stories and continue to play the victim.

  • kangaji
    7:47 pm on August 2nd, 2011 30

    ROCKON: Read much Bruce Cummings?

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    10:32 pm on August 2nd, 2011 31

    At least Cummings is a big step up from Chompsky, and I hate Cummings because his historical reasoning is still half-@ssed…

  • rockon
    12:18 am on August 3rd, 2011 32

    @Kangaji: tried to read one of his books, put it down and never got back to it. Well written book, but Korean history is, well, a little dull. Awash in details but the story-line is constant: a mixed Asian tribe that spent 5000 years killing its own brothers and sisters with a couple of foreign invasions.

  • kushibo
    12:38 am on August 3rd, 2011 33

    Korean history is, well, a little dull.

    In a PC-bang deep in the bowels of hell, Kim Ilsung reads this post and turns to his buddies Hideyoshi, Mao Zedong, Taro Katsura, and Stalin, then remarks, “Wow. Tough crowd.”

  • Avatar of USinKoreaUSinKorea
    12:40 am on August 3rd, 2011 34

    Try North Korea: Another Country. Short, crap read not worth toilet paper due to leaps in logic and blindingly obvious bias but a perfect one to show what he is all about.

    The work that made his name was scholarly in the reading but the imbalance in bias was not too hard to notice.

    In works like North Korea: Another Country, he drops all the academicness and just exhibits himself.

  • kushibo
    12:42 am on August 3rd, 2011 35

    I’ve never been a big fan of Korean history, but my Yonsei prof made it enjoyable. The name escapes me but there’s a modern English-language book on Prince Sado that’s an interesting read. The crown prince was mentally deranged and basically a serial killer, but Confucian propriety made everyone utterly incapable of doing anything about it.

    The petering out of the Chosŏn Dynasty is kind of an interesting read, with the intrigue of the Japanese, the Europeans, and the Americans. The Korean War alone is an interesting topic.

  • RealDeal
    6:13 pm on August 3rd, 2011 36

    @Kushiba 22
    “Kangaji, I took that friend’s friend to the USS Arizona Memorial, and when looking around at all the exhibits, she noted that all this was terrible, but then she said, ‘but Japan had no choice but to attack, right?’”

    I would have to agree with her. Japan needed to win the war, so why not take the offensive? It’s not like the US Gov’t didn’t know they were coming. Please… And, it’s not like the US hasn’t taken the offensive before. Operation Iraqi Freedom? Afghanistan? Bay of Pigs? Nicaruaga? List goes on and on…

  • kangaji
    6:58 pm on August 3rd, 2011 37

    I would have sent more Geologists to Manchuria…

  • kangaji
    7:01 pm on August 3rd, 2011 38

    Black Gold, Texas Tea, Oil that is… Next thing ya know old Jin’s a millionaire, the kin folk said “Jin move away from there” They said Vietnam’s the place you oughta be, so they packed right up and beat up the Vichy…

  • Orbit
    7:13 pm on August 3rd, 2011 39

    Lol. Isn’t puppy’s avatar the character from the manga “barefoot Gen”?

  • kangaji
    7:22 pm on August 3rd, 2011 40

    It’s speed racer drinking a bottle of jack

 

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